Police going door to door searching houses

[Jerk]

WASHINGTON -- A crackdown on guns is meeting some resistance in the District.

Police are asking residents to submit to voluntary searches in exchange for amnesty under the District's gun ban. They passed out fliers requesting cooperation on Monday.

The program will begin in a couple of weeks in the Washington Highlands neighborhood of southeast Washington and will later expand to other neighborhoods. Officers will go door to door asking residents for permission to search their homes.

Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier said the "safe homes initiative" is aimed at residents who want to cooperate with police. She gave the example of parents or grandparents who know or suspect their children have guns in the home.

Community leaders went door to door in Ward 8 Monday to advise residents not to invite police into their homes to search for weapons.

"Bad idea," said D.C. School Board member William Lockridge. "I think the people should not open your doors under any circumstances, don't even crack your door, unless someone has a warrant for your arrest."

Ron Hampton, of the Black Police Officers Association, said he doesn't expect many in the community to comply.

"This is one of those communities where the police even have problems getting information about crimes that are going on in the community, so to suggest, now, that the police have enough community capital in their hand that the community is going to cooperate with them, I'm not so sure that's a good idea," Hampton said.

If weapons are recovered, they will be tested and destroyed if they are not found to be linked to any other crimes.

A police spokeswoman said that if evidence of other crimes is found during voluntary searches, amnesty will be granted for that crime as well.

"Chief Lanier has been clear," Traci Hughes said. "Amnesty means amnesty."

http://www.nbc4.com/news/15688264/detail.html

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So, if they came to your door and asked permission to search your home, you told them to get f****ed, would that then give them probable cause?

I think that the timing is very good, given that DC vs Heller has been submitted to the Supreme Court.

[tommieharris91]

Man, I would LOVE to be a Washington DC lawyer right now. Nothing like obvious disregard for the Bill of Rights as a nice opportunity to make a ****-ton of $$$$$.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Go f yourself Chief Cathy....:rolleyes:

[Ike]

A police spokeswoman said that if evidence of other crimes is found during voluntary searches, amnesty will be granted for that crime as well.

"Chief Lanier has been clear," Traci Hughes said. "Amnesty means amnesty."


WTF?!?!?

So, if I let the cops search my home for a gun voluntarily, and there happens to be a dead hooker in the bathtub, they'll just ignore that, and never bring it up again, and go about their merry way after finding no handguns in the house?

Can I get that in a legally binding contract before they go in?

[yermom]

it sounds like you get amnesty if they find a murder weapon as well??

[Okla-homey]

it sounds like you get amnesty if they find a murder weapon as well??


I expect the "Plain view doctrine" applies on the dead hooker in the bathtub. You can Google that for details. IMHO, its a bad idea to consent to searches. Nevertheless, people do it. Sorta like people make statements to cops without counsel present.:(

[yermom]

so what is the proper answer to "can i look in your trunk?" then?

[Okla-homey]

so what is the proper answer to "can i look in your trunk?" then?

You do what you want bro, but for me, it would be "no thank you." If he persists in wanting in there, he has to be able to prove probable cause to look in my trunk. My denial, based on assertion of my 4th Amendment rights under the Constitution may not factor in his probable cause analysis if I say "no" calmly and politely and exhibit no other suspicious charactersistics.

If he goes in there without PC (perhaps based on a mere "hunch" or because I fit some "profile") and finds contraband among the junk in my trunk, that contraband is prolly gonna be inadmissable as evidence against me if my lawyer's any good at all.

Here's the thing though. In Oklahoma, as in most states, if you are arrested pursuant to a traffic stop, a cop can search your entire passenger compartment, including glove box, consoles and bags and boxes therein -- ostensibly to sweep it for weapons. If he finds contraband (weed, crack pipe, seeds, guns, knives, burglary tools, large amounts of cash, bricks of coke, rolling papers, bong, three 12-piece place settings of sterling flatware, loose diamonds, etc.) during that look see of my passenger compartment, that can easily lead to PC to go into the trunk whether I consent or not.

If stopped, and NOT placed under arrest and no pc, they can't search zilch unless you give consent.

Bottomline for me and those I care about: be nice to cops, lawyer-up, and don't make statements, don't answer questions, don't consent to searches (including breathalyzers).

[crawfish]

It's just another instance of the eroding of our civil liberties. Is it any wonder I voted for the crazy guy?

[MojoRisen]

No way they come in my house without a warrent. Who in the heck would want a stranger in their house going through their stuff especially if they knew they didn't have any guns.

No thanks- plus police are not your friends when it comes to that stuff- protect and serve has turned into a revenue generation scheme for the city and more police than needed.

[Rogue]

Youtube: "Flex Your Rights" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PCVnMDy_7nM)

I don't consent to any searches. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nyokKFIecIo&feature=related)

Lots of good stuff by them. Some very long vids.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Bottomline for me and those I care about: be nice to cops, lawyer-up, and don't make statements, don't answer questions, don't consent to searches (including breathalyzers).Dont submit to a breathalyzer? I thought there was implied consent?

[MojoRisen]

Implied consent and then they have to read you the implied consent form. There is only civil penalty for your first refusal - and even this can be dropped later in court - I wouldn't give the police any evidence especially if they really didn't have a right to pull you over in the first place. Now if you were speeding and they write you an actual ticket for this and ask if you had been drinking - if you are not over the limit- I would go ahead and blow.

Keep in mind if you plan on not blowing - don't even do the field sobriety test unless you know they have a camera in the police cruiser.

Police lie - then you have to spend all kinds of money to get a Jury trial in an appelet court because the judge will typicall side with whatever the police say - which is BS.

[yermom]

you can request a bood test or something, right?

i think if you refuse a test altogether in OK you lose your license

[yermom]

No way they come in my house without a warrent. Who in the heck would want a stranger in their house going through their stuff especially if they knew they didn't have any guns.

No thanks- plus police are not your friends when it comes to that stuff- protect and serve has turned into a revenue generation scheme for the city and more police than needed.

part of what they were talking about in the article was parents or grandparents who might be intimidated by their kids in the house that they know/suspect have guns

[MojoRisen]

If they are intimidated as it is - I don't think it does them any justice to give the grand parent amnesty- arrest the kids - they get out on bail and all hell breaks loose.

If people want to consent- that is up to them. I highly doubt many people in DC will do that.

You could loose your license if you refuse all together, although it is not automatic(Civil only). You could in fact request a blood test and wait for a good hour to an hour and a half before consenting. If you pleaded out later in court - to maybe a reckless driving, the refusal can be dropped all together by the Prosecutor - especially if they really do not have any evidence to convict.

I have encountered police- who will lie so bad it would make your head spin and really it is up to the State to establish guilt with actual evidence. I heard of a Judge who threw out like 10 DUI cases in a row because the police statement was identical to the others - and actually scripted.

[Okla-homey]

you can request a bood test or something, right?

i think if you refuse a test altogether in OK you lose your license

for a while, but you may avoid a DUI conviction on your record.


Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 47. Motor Vehicles
Chapter 67 - Chemical Tests
Section 753 - Refusal to Submit to Test

If a conscious person under arrest refuses to submit to testing of his or her blood or breath for the purpose of determining the alcohol concentration thereof, or to a test of his or her blood, saliva or urine for the purpose of determining the presence or concentration of any other intoxicating substance, or the combined influence of alcohol and any other intoxicating substance, none shall be given, unless the investigating officer has probable cause to believe that the person under arrest, while intoxicated, has operated the motor vehicle in such a manner as to have caused the death or serious physical injury of any other person or persons. [...]

The Commissioner of Public Safety, upon the receipt of a sworn report of the law enforcement officer that the officer had reasonable grounds to believe the arrested person had been driving or was in actual physical control of a motor vehicle [...and he was drunk] and that the person had refused to submit to the test or tests, shall revoke the license to drive [...] as provided by Section 6-205.1 of this title. [six months for first offense]

[bri]

No way they come in my house without a warrent.

Hell, I wouldn't let them in my house even if they had Warrant. Have you seen Jani Lane these days? That f*cker would eat me out of house and home faster than you can say "'Cherry Pie' was supposed to be a euphemism, not an order".

[MojoRisen]

Not only that, a refusal is only a 7 day suspension until you go to trial - which could be several months, even if you loose you have a right to apeal and get a jury which could be another year. All in all it is on your terms and if you lost in appelet court - which is unlikely if the state has no evidence/scientific. You would have been driving for a year and at worst case could likely negotiate a restricted license in a plead deal.

I wouldn't blow unless I knew for sure I was under a .08 which to me would not even be a buzz.... There are so many sting operations these days they typically will pull you over because they are pretty damn sure you already had more than 3-4 beers in an hour watching a game or something. at least in Virginia

On July 1, you might remember the Virginia General Assembly instituted abusive driver’s fees for a number of traffic violations. Those fees were put in place not to make the Commonwealth a safer place. Rather, they were a way to make money for the Commonwealth at between $750 and $3,000 per violation!

Now these unfair “fees” – which are really a new form of the car tax – are basically making police and prosecutors act as tax collectors. A recent UVA study claims such fees are unfair and calls them “flawed public policy”. Worst of all, nearly 300,000 Virginia drivers could lose their licenses in the next 18 months if this is not fixed!

That’s why I need your help now. Your support of my campaign will help me take this message to the Virginia legislature in the short term. And long-term I will fight in the U.S. Senate to prevent Virginia and other states from levying these unfair taxes on hardworking taxpayers.

[StoopTroup]

I think the real question here is...

Would you submit to a physical search if you got to pick a hawt Lady Officer?

[MojoRisen]

That happened to me once- and she was so hawt - that yes I did... I was young though and in shock

[Okla-homey]

Not only that, a refusal is only a 7 day suspension until you go to trial - which could be several months, even if you loose you have a right to apeal and get a jury which could be another year. All in all it is on your terms and if you lost in appelet court - which is unlikely if the state has no evidence/scientific. You would have been driving for a year and at worst case could likely negotiate a restricted license in a plead deal.

I wouldn't blow unless I knew for sure I was under a .08 which to me would not even be a buzz.... There are so many sting operations these days they typically will pull you over because they are pretty damn sure you already had more than 3-4 beers in an hour watching a game or something. at least in Virginia

On July 1, you might remember the Virginia General Assembly instituted abusive driver’s fees for a number of traffic violations. Those fees were put in place not to make the Commonwealth a safer place. Rather, they were a way to make money for the Commonwealth at between $750 and $3,000 per violation!

Now these unfair “fees” – which are really a new form of the car tax – are basically making police and prosecutors act as tax collectors. A recent UVA study claims such fees are unfair and calls them “flawed public policy”. Worst of all, nearly 300,000 Virginia drivers could lose their licenses in the next 18 months if this is not fixed!

That’s why I need your help now. Your support of my campaign will help me take this message to the Virginia legislature in the short term. And long-term I will fight in the U.S. Senate to prevent Virginia and other states from levying these unfair taxes on hardworking taxpayers.

Oklahoma's different. See above.

[bri]

I think the real question here is...

Would you submit to a physical search if you got to pick a hawt Lady Officer?

Nope.

I don't care how hot the chick is, my pooper is exit only.

[MojoRisen]

This is in DC- where hand guns licensed or not are illegal....

[Okla-homey]

This is in DC- where hand guns licensed or not are illegal....

I was referring to OUr state's law on refusing breathalyzer tests vice the Virginia law cited above.

I guess my bottomline, for me and mine, is if you've had a couple and blow, you'll prolly lose your license and get a DUI. However, if you don't blow, you'll prolly just lose your license for six months (the first time) if there's not enough evidence to convict you otherwise.

That said, don't drink and drive and you'll never have the problem in the first flippin' place.

[Frozen Sooner]

Heh. While I agree 100% with the sentiment of not allowing an unreasonable warrantless search of your home, I'm amused by who's arguing what in this case.

[MojoRisen]

I had no problem with that- I thought to get the thread back on track. I agree but entramptment is hurting industry.

DC taxation without representation- I am really at odds with it...

[Okla-homey]

Heh. While I agree 100% with the sentiment of not allowing an unreasonable warrantless search of your home, I'm amused by who's arguing what in this case.

FWIW, there's practically no legal warrantless search of the home in US or state law. The home is a Constitutionally special place. Thus, the cops can arrest you and rifle through your car without a warrant, but they can't bust into your house even if they see a pot plant in a flowerpot on the inside of your window sill without first obtaining a warrant.

Of course, under those facts, they could get that warrant pretty easily.

[MojoRisen]

Homey, I will defend till out of breath a sting operation on a unreasonable stop as well.

1. When pulled over crack your window" with enough room only to pass your information to the officer, typically they pulled you over for a reason that may not be a legal stop in the first place. I can say that 9 out of 10 police reports are scripted.
2. be curteous to the police officer, ask him why you were stopped.

3. is up too you

[Dio]

protect and serve has turned into a revenue generation scheme for the city and more police than needed.

Moore Says "Smile, America!"

[MojoRisen]

I may be moving south soon!!! :)

[Frozen Sooner]

FWIW, there's practically no legal warrantless search of the home in US or state law. The home is a Constitutionally special place. Thus, the cops can arrest you and rifle through your car without a warrant, but they can't bust into your house even if they see a pot plant in a flowerpot on the inside of your window sill without first obtaining a warrant.

Of course, under those facts, they could get that warrant pretty easily.

I understand that, Homey. Your home and papers enjoy special protection under the Constitution.

Of course, if you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be worried, right? :rolleyes:

[Jerk]

I understand that, Homey. Your home and papers enjoy special protection under the Constitution.

Of course, if you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be worried, right? :rolleyes:

That was my orginal question on this whole thing. If you deny, does that create probable cause?

Wouldn't it be great if the Supreme Court Justices lived inside D.C. (which I'm sure they don't) and this little 'operation' was tried on them?

[Jerk]

What's the problem people? Her intentions are good. She is, afterall, a 4-star General

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/05/08/pysk.lanier/storyvert.chiefcathylanier_.jpg

[MojoRisen]

The one who searched me was 10 times whoted - burnett as well

Freedom is a brunette and blonde was enterprise -

[tommieharris91]

The one who searched me was 10 times whoted - burnett as well

Freedom is a brunette and blonde was enterprise -

So you were physically searched at a strip club? What did you do, hide your c-note from her? :texan:

[MojoRisen]

All I know is I am absolutely proud of JC - fighting for our freedom...

Man I didn't do anything wrong and when she was done she followed me home all the way to my moma!!

[Frozen Sooner]

That was my orginal question on this whole thing. If you deny, does that create probable cause?

No. The assertion of your rights under the Constitution does not constitute probable cause. Otherwise the Bill of Rights has no real meaning.

[Okla-homey]

No. The assertion of your rights under the Constitution does not constitute probable cause. Otherwise the Bill of Rights has no real meaning.

That's generally true, but if asserted while casting furtive glances and seeming otherwise suspicious, it might.

Therefore, just politely say, "Officer, I do not consent to any searches" while looking the cop in the eye.

[MojoRisen]

I agree, and please do not shoot me in the back

[Turd_Ferguson]

That's generally true, but if asserted while casting furtive glances and seeming otherwise suspicious, it might.

Therefore, just politely say, "Officer, I do not consent to any searches" while looking the cop in the eye......and when he say's why.....what should be my answer?

[MojoRisen]

No thanks,



The Cincinnati Race Riots

[Okla-homey]

.....and when he say's why.....what should be my answer?
twer it me, I'd just repeat my previous answer. You really have more power in that sitcheeashun than you think. As long as I'm willing to have him get mad and arrest me if it comes to that. If he does, and he doesn't have PC for the arrest, I can sue his drawers off under 24 USC 1983 and get PAID when the city's insurance company settles my lawsuit! :D

[MojoRisen]

Love ya guys- but no money from the state.....

[Okla-homey]

Love ya guys- but no money from the state.....

The good knews is state troopers are generally sharper than the local and county fuzz, thus they're less likely to pull such crapola on you.

[MojoRisen]

Agree-

[CORNholio]

WASHINGTON -- A crackdown on guns is meeting some resistance in the District.

Police are asking residents to submit to voluntary searches in exchange for amnesty under the District's gun ban. They passed out fliers requesting cooperation on Monday.

The program will begin in a couple of weeks in the Washington Highlands neighborhood of southeast Washington and will later expand to other neighborhoods. Officers will go door to door asking residents for permission to search their homes.

Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier said the "safe homes initiative" is aimed at residents who want to cooperate with police. She gave the example of parents or grandparents who know or suspect their children have guns in the home.

Community leaders went door to door in Ward 8 Monday to advise residents not to invite police into their homes to search for weapons.

"Bad idea," said D.C. School Board member William Lockridge. "I think the people should not open your doors under any circumstances, don't even crack your door, unless someone has a warrant for your arrest."

Ron Hampton, of the Black Police Officers Association, said he doesn't expect many in the community to comply.

"This is one of those communities where the police even have problems getting information about crimes that are going on in the community, so to suggest, now, that the police have enough community capital in their hand that the community is going to cooperate with them, I'm not so sure that's a good idea," Hampton said.

If weapons are recovered, they will be tested and destroyed if they are not found to be linked to any other crimes.

A police spokeswoman said that if evidence of other crimes is found during voluntary searches, amnesty will be granted for that crime as well.

"Chief Lanier has been clear," Traci Hughes said. "Amnesty means amnesty."

http://www.nbc4.com/news/15688264/detail.html

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So, if they came to your door and asked permission to search your home, you told them to get f****ed, would that then give them probable cause?

I think that the timing is very good, given that DC vs Heller has been submitted to the Supreme Court.

There are so many things wrong in this. Even just the fact that there is a "black police officers association" in existence. We all know what would happen if the white kids made a racist association like this.

[MojoRisen]

I beat up a bunch of jewish kids because they wouldn't let me play stick ball when I was a kid- and they made a file....

[GottaHavePride]

Are The Police sending out an S.O.S.?

[MojoRisen]

Not yet, are they? I hope not. let it be - treat it federal -

[GottaHavePride]

If they ask to search my house I'm gonna tell them don't stand so close to me.

[yermom]

yeah, but then they will we watching you. every move you make, every breath you take

[MojoRisen]

don't stand , don't stand so close to me!!

This was pitiful, seriously.... none got mad and none let anyone set president. if it werent for bush we would sue....

[Frozen Sooner]

That's generally true, but if asserted while casting furtive glances and seeming otherwise suspicious, it might.

Therefore, just politely say, "Officer, I do not consent to any searches" while looking the cop in the eye.

Well, yeah. The simple assertion of your rights does not constitute probable cause. Acting suspiciously does. Though I imagine a good lawyer can get a search tossed out pretty easily if the only PC the cop has is "He looked shifty."

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Bottomline for me and those I care about: be nice to cops, lawyer-up, and don't make statements, don't answer questions, don't consent to searches (including breathalyzers).

So what do you do in implied consent states, where having a driver's license, implies consent for a breathalyzer? If being arrested, I would always want a BAC test, but they don't necessarily give you that option. Otherwise, you refuse, you automatically lose your license and then they court order a BAC.