Question for Military Historians - D-Day

[VeeJay]

This may have been discussed previously; if so pardon this.

In my millionth time of viewing "Saving Private Ryan" at present, my question is, why did we send troops in on cattle cars to get slaughtered, when we could have bombed the hell out of them from the air on Omaha Beach?

I know it's probably a very simple explanation. Air superiority was not what it is today, back then.

[olevetonahill]

Cause we couldnt Dazzle em with Brilliance
So we had to Baffle em with Bull shat !
I nevar Made really made it thru that Movie so I aint got a clue !:O

[VeeJay]

I'm good until the P-51's fly over and take out the kraut's tanks at the end. That's when I have to turn it off.

Band Of Brothers didn't have the same effect, although I was glad to see the Battered Bastards of Bastion get out of that hellhole.

[olevetonahill]

I'm good until the P-51's fly over and take out the kraut's tanks at the end. That's when I have to turn it off.

Band Of Brothers didn't have the same effect, although I was glad to see the Battered Bastards of Bastion get out of that hellhole.

Band , Ws that with Mel ?
The one that. nevar mind
But was that one were He called In to Have em just shoot Cause we needed Reloef ?

[VeeJay]

Band , Ws that with Mel ?
The one that. nevar mind
But was that one were He called In to Have em just shoot Cause we needed Reloef ?

Vet - I'm sorry, Bro - you lost me in the translation there. I think you was trying to ask me a question, but I'm not sure.

[olevetonahill]

Band Of Brothers ?
was that the Mel Gibson movie where he Called In Broken Arrow ?

[VeeJay]

I don't think Mel was in that one.

[olevetonahill]

Shows what I know :O

[VeeJay]

Well, it may be a little easier for me to watch seeing as how I haven't actually gone through combat. It's never easy to watch, knowing that I could have been there, in a different place and a different time.

[yermom]

i think you are talking about We Were Soldiers

[soonerinabilene]

Yeah, the Mel movie was we were soldiers. Band of Brothers is an HBO miniseries that is by far one of the greatest miniseries ever made.

[SCOUT]

I don't know about the bombing strategy. I am sure Homey will be along around 3:00 am to answer in detail though.

I have a friend whose Grandfather was in the first wave at Omaha. I had a chance to talk with him a time or two. He generally doesn't want to discuss the subject and just says, "people wouldn't understand." I did get him to answer the question about the reality of Saving Private Ryan though.

He said it wasn't realistic at all (I was surprised because I had heard that it was pretty accurate). He said that first of all, there was no talking, yelling or any other communication going on. Second, he said that there weren't any markings on the officers helmets and those officers weren't drawing attention to themselves by giving orders.

Other than that though, he said it was spot on. I joked with him a little bit about the devil being in the details.

I am still trying to convince him to spend some time with me and a tape recorder.

[olevetonahill]

i think you are talking about We Were Soldiers

I think yerMom is Correct
Even tho It didnt Have a Nuke Basis . Which a True Broken Arrow Call would have
What Little I saw It was Just a
Shoot up here amongst us
Cause One of us gots to have to some relieve :eek:

[yermom]

I don't know about the bombing strategy. I am sure Homey will be along around 3:00 am to answer in detail though.

I have a friend whose Grandfather was in the first wave at Omaha. I had a chance to talk with him a time or two. He generally doesn't want to discuss the subject and just says, "people wouldn't understand." I did get him to answer the question about the reality of Saving Private Ryan though.

He said it wasn't realistic at all (I was surprised because I had heard that it was pretty accurate). He said that first of all, there was no talking, yelling or any other communication going on. Second, he said that there weren't any markings on the officers helmets and those officers weren't drawing attention to themselves by giving orders.

Other than that though, he said it was spot on. I joked with him a little bit about the devil being in the details.

I am still trying to convince him to spend some time with me and a tape recorder.

i can't remember if they say what beach they are on in the movie, but the first wave at Omaha was rough... your friend was lucky to have met his grandfather, or maybe even been born :eek:

there is a bunch of info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_Landings

but yeah, i'm thinking the bombing of their fortifications wasn't quite the same as it would be now...

[olevetonahill]

I don't know about the bombing strategy. I am sure Homey will be along around 3:00 am to answer in detail though.

I have a friend whose Grandfather was in the first wave at Omaha. I had a chance to talk with him a time or two. He generally doesn't want to discuss the subject and just says, "people wouldn't understand." I did get him to answer the question about the reality of Saving Private Ryan though.

He said it wasn't realistic at all (I was surprised because I had heard that it was pretty accurate). He said that first of all, there was no talking, yelling or any other communication going on. Second, he said that there weren't any markings on the officers helmets and those officers weren't drawing attention to themselves by giving orders.

Other than that though, he said it was spot on. I joked with him a little bit about the devil being in the details.

I am still trying to convince him to spend some time with me and a tape recorder.

Doubt it will Happen Bro But good Luck
Id Like to see these memories preserved
MY Uncle Died last year, He marched across Europe
I barely got to get him to Talk to me
My Dad was In th PTO , I nevar Got him to Talk and he nevar Got me to
Now Its down to Me and #2 son who went into Boznia at the Start of that shat
and was In the Invasion Of Iraq
We sit around and drink a brew from time to time
and say Aint God Good !:pop:

[TheBobbyTrain]

I think it was because cloud cover in the days leading up to D-Day prevented any kind of accurate bombing. We tried, but very unsuccessfully. There were also supposed to be DD tanks on the shores for artillery support but they all sank on the way across the channel, leaving Omaha beach to be a vicious killing zone for the Germans.

[Sooner_Havok]

I don't know how effective WWII era bombs would have been against the fortifications the krauts had built into the cliffs. That might have had something to do with it.

[Collier11]

I have a good friend that served in Iraq and he wont say hardly a word

[Vaevictis]

I know it's probably a very simple explanation. Air superiority was not what it is today, back then.

I would also venture the following guess, which may not be the whole story, but I bet was contributory: We were time constrained.

The goal was to establish a beach head so that we could pour troops onto the mainland. We had paratroopers drop into their rear to disrupt things, and a schedule to keep. You can't very well bombard fortifications while you're storming them (well, you can, if you're willing to hit your own guys).

Spending a lot of time bombing the fortifications would have (1) disrupted our timing, (2) would have told the Germans where our point of attack was, and (3) given them additional time to respond.

IIRC, we spent a lot of time and effort convincing the Germans we were going to be hitting somewhere else, so I expect that we didn't want to do anything to tip our hand, and wanted to move as quickly as possible to take advantage of any surprise we managed to achieve.

[85Sooner]

As I remember, There was a wave of sherman tanks that had been rigged to be able to join the troops in the assaults however, the canvass covers used to deiguise the turrets of the tanks ended up catching too much wind and became like sails sending the tanks way off course and most ultimately were sunk before they hit the shore. HIstory channel had a program on that years ago.

One person I know said that the opening scene was pretty accurate with the exception that in the movie, the guns being fired were not German guns. He remembered the distinct sound that German machine guns made 50-60 years after the fact. Woa

[JohnnyMack]

Because we couldn't see them.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I have a friend whose Grandfather was in the first wave at Omaha. I had a chance to talk with him a time or two. He generally doesn't want to discuss the subject and just says, "people wouldn't understand." I did get him to answer the question about the reality of Saving Private Ryan though.

He said it wasn't realistic at all (I was surprised because I had heard that it was pretty accurate). He said that first of all, there was no talking, yelling or any other communication going on. Second, he said that there weren't any markings on the officers helmets and those officers weren't drawing attention to themselves by giving orders.

Other than that though, he said it was spot on. I joked with him a little bit about the devil being in the details.

I am still trying to convince him to spend some time with me and a tape recorder.

My father was there - "Bloody Omaha" is what he calls it everytime. He was on an LST and his ship landed late on Dday to disgorge jeeps and tanks. He also had troops on his ship that went in the first 2 waves. He was drinking with my sister one night and said he had to point his 50-cal by order at the second wave troops because they wouldn't go down the scramble nets to the landing craft. I asked him about that later and he denied saying it. He has never really said anything about Dday - ever. I suspect he was deeply affected by the carnage, as I said he never just calls it Omaha Beach.

He does speak of the wounded he ferried back to the UK and making the German POWs carry the litters. He guarded POWs and has Nazi script and stamps he liberated from the POWs. I hope to get those and his medal case.

As far as air superiority, he said there was nothing to shoot at for him - he was on a twin 50-cal AA gun. No German aircraft.

He does speak of his hatred for the French, however, something happened with a Frenchman (or woman?) over there. He was 17 y.o. at the time.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

As I remember, There was a wave of sherman tanks that had been rigged to be able to join the troops in the assaults however, the canvass covers used to deiguise the turrets of the tanks ended up catching too much wind and became like sails sending the tanks way off course and most ultimately were sunk before they hit the shore. HIstory channel had a program on that years ago.

One person I know said that the opening scene was pretty accurate with the exception that in the movie, the guns being fired were not German guns. He remembered the distinct sound that German machine guns made 50-60 years after the fact. Woa

The tanks canvas was not disguise, it was to make them float. By increasing their beam with the canvas, it essentially displaced more water than the tank itself, allowing them to float and manuever in the water. This system had only been tried in calm waters previously. The high winds and the high waves due to the stormy condition caused the water to overtop the canvas and flooded the tanks, causing them to increase in weight to the point the system could not displace enough water and they sunk.

German artillery sound vastly different than American.

[TUSooner]

You answered your own question: bombing then just wasn't near as ak'rit as it is now, especially from waaaaay up high. Same goes for all the Pacific D-Days: zillions of bombs and ginormous naval gun barrages couldn't clear the enemy's dugouts and hideouts.

[85Sooner]

The tanks canvas was not disguise, it was to make them float. By increasing their beam with the canvas, it essentially displaced more water than the tank itself, allowing them to float and manuever in the water. This system had only been tried in calm waters previously. The high winds and the high waves due to the stormy condition caused the water to overtop the canvas and flooded the tanks, causing them to increase in weight to the point the system could not displace enough water and they sunk.

German artillery sound vastly different than American.
Thanks for the correction.

[MR2-Sooner86]

If I remember right they did fire from the ships at the beach but it was foggy that morning so a few rounds hit the beach but most of them went over and they bombarded the area behind the forts and pill boxes.

Again, that's why they also couldn't bomb. It was foggy and cloudy and that just wouldn't work.

I must say that my grandfather was in the first wave at Omaha. I forget what happened but there was an explosion and something like a wall or part of a bunker fell on him and his legs. He was in the hospital and got the purple heart. He said he was in England and the Queen actually walked by his bed. She was here visiting all the soldiers in the hospital.

Now while many say Saving Private Ryan wasn't accurate, it was more than most. Has anybody seen The Longest Day? It too is about D-day and was made in the 1960's. Saving Private Ryan shows you war is hell and sucks. The Longest Day makes war look like a big adventure. The first wave at Omaha has the commanders yelling, "Come on boys lets take it to em!" Few soldiers are shot and most are in a huge waves rushing up the beach shooting like crazy. It's a good movie but not accurate.