A thought experiment...

[Ike]

just because I'm curious as to how this turns out.


Suppose that there is some experiment you could do yourself (and thats impossible to screw up), and that the result of this experiment would give irrefutable proof that God either exists or doesn't exist. Without performing the experiment, you cannot reliably say which way it will turn out, however, once one person has performed the experiment, it will turn out the same way for every person that performs it.

a)Would you perform the experiment?

b)If so, and the experiment wound up refuting your prior beliefs, how would you deal with that?

c)Suppose that the experiment can further tell you not only if a god exists, but which god or gods (ie, the God of the Bible, Allah, Thor, Zeus, etc). Do you still perform the experiment? Since I don't know of many muslims on soonerfans, lets just say that if you perform the experiment, you find that the only god that exists is Allah. How do you deal with that?

[olevetonahill]

just because I'm curious as to how this turns out.


Suppose that there is some experiment you could do yourself (and thats impossible to screw up), and that the result of this experiment would give irrefutable proof that God either exists or doesn't exist. Without performing the experiment, you cannot reliably say which way it will turn out, however, once one person has performed the experiment, it will turn out the same way for every person that performs it.

a)Would you perform the experiment?

b)If so, and the experiment wound up refuting your prior beliefs, how would you deal with that?

c)Suppose that the experiment can further tell you not only if a god exists, but which god or gods (ie, the God of the Bible, Allah, Thor, Zeus, etc). Do you still perform the experiment? Since I don't know of many muslims on soonerfans, lets just say that if you perform the experiment, you find that the only god that exists is Allah. How do you deal with that?

So If I take this Experment , ALL mankind Has to Follow ?
If It Just affects Me! Hell Yea Im in,
But then come to think of It , Fuk em, I get to choose !
Give me the Experiment .
:D
Im gonna be whats Prooved
I convert :D

[Ike]

So If I take this Experment , ALL mankind Has to Follow ?
If It Just affects Me! Hell Yea Im in,
But then come to think of It , Fuk em, I get to choose !
Give me the Experiment .
:D
Im gonna be whats Prooved
I convert :D

They don't have to follow, but if they do, they'll find out the same thing you did.

[olevetonahill]

They don't have to follow, but if they do, they'll find out the same thing you did.

Im In :cool:

[Ike]

So the first two parts are pretty easy for me...a) hell yes. b) If I could at the same time or at some later time determine the properties of the God/Creator the experiment revealed, I'd probably worship in the manner that is perscribed.

however....c) still gives me trouble, and the trouble is why the "probably" is in there in my answer to b). see, I'd still perform the experiment, but with all the problems I have with the christian god, he still seems like a decent enough guy. Following him wouldn't be the worst thing I could do. But other gods, and from what I can tell, Allah is one of them, seem like giant pricks. I'd seriously have to consider whether to change anything if that turned out to be the case. I might even set out to determine whether or not I could kill god...I honestly don't know...Now, I only say this because I know about next to nothing about Islam and what they claim their god is like...I was raised in the christian faith, so the only god I've ever really heard about was a god that loves everything and everyone regardless...but say that turns out not to be so? what do you do? Do you try to earn that gods love, even if it makes utterly ridiculous demands on you, or do you give him the finger and go about doing things your own damn way? I honestly don't know...

(this begs another question that burns in my mind, that is completely unrelated to this experiment...why is it, that throughout history, gods have demanded worship from people?)

[olevetonahill]

So the first two parts are pretty easy for me...a) hell yes. b) If I could at the same time or at some later time determine the properties of the God/Creator the experiment revealed, I'd probably worship in the manner that is perscribed.

however....c) still gives me trouble, and the trouble is why the "probably" is in there in my answer to b). see, I'd still perform the experiment, but with all the problems I have with the christian god, he still seems like a decent enough guy. Following him wouldn't be the worst thing I could do. But other gods, and from what I can tell, Allah is one of them, seem like giant pricks. I'd seriously have to consider whether to change anything if that turned out to be the case. I might even set out to determine whether or not I could kill god...I honestly don't know...Now, I only say this because I know about next to nothing about Islam and what they claim their god is like...I was raised in the christian faith, so the only god I've ever really heard about was a god that loves everything and everyone regardless...but say that turns out not to be so? what do you do? Do you try to earn that gods love, even if it makes utterly ridiculous demands on you, or do you give him the finger and go about doing things your own damn way? I honestly don't know...

(this begs another question that burns in my mind, that is completely unrelated to this experiment...why is it, that throughout history, gods have demanded worship from people?)

Got No prob with A.B.C .
Now D or your New ?
I think is Just the reverse . Why Have People Thru out History Demanded a God to worship !
Our Bible states the Need for a Sacrifice . Correct ?
Why Has every civilisation Known to Man kind Demanded Sacrifice to thier God ? Gods !

[Ike]

Got No prob with A.B.C .
Now D or your New ?
I think is Just the reverse . Why Have People Thru out History Demanded a God to worship !
Our Bible states the Need for a Sacrifice . Correct ?
Why Has every civilisation Known to Man kind Demanded Sacrifice to thier God ? Gods !

thats kinda the same question I was asking, just changing who was doing the demanding.

[olevetonahill]

thats kinda the same question I was asking, just changing who was doing the demanding.

Zactly !
Is it God Demanding a Sacrifice ?
Or Is It mans Feelings Of Inadequacy Demanding, That Man Sacrifice to a Higher Being ?
I think the Later

[olevetonahill]

Ike Is a Very Interresting Person to Chat with
Beats Rus and catfish all to hell :P :D

[OUbones]

c)Suppose that the experiment can further tell you not only if a god exists, but which god or gods (ie, the God of the Bible, Allah, Thor, Zeus, etc). Do you still perform the experiment? Since I don't know of many Muslims on soonerfans, lets just say that if you perform the experiment, you find that the only god that exists is Allah. How do you deal with that?

It's pretty well established that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all agree it's the same God (Allah) they're worshiping.

[olevetonahill]

It's pretty well established that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all agree it's the same God (Allah) they're worshiping.

Then Why they wanta Kill each other ?
You succ at this Game :confused:

[Preservation Parcels]

Doesn't everyone ultimately perform that experiment in one form or another? I've learned these things:

Other religions demand life-long sacrifice to a non-responsive or angry god.

Jesus was given as the sacrifice in our place. He freely gave his own life to remove the barrier that kept us from a relationship with the only loving God.

I think it was C.S. Lewis who said, "There's a God-shaped hole in everyone's heart." Lots of people try to fill that void with all kinds of things - money, career, fallible human relationships, etc., but only God can make a person whole and truly content.

[olevetonahill]

And Voltaire Said what ?
Ike asked a question
Or 3
Answer them or STFU ok ?
How will this work out for you ?
Pretty simple , pretty Str8 forward .

[OUDoc]

a) Yes
b) I'd find a way to deal with it. I'd rather know the truth.
c) At least you'd know who you're praying to. :) Apparently I'm not so entrenched in my religion that I'm inflexible on changing some specifics. In the end, you are still worshiping God, which is what you were doing in your first religion.

Good questions, Dr. Ike!

[Widescreen]

a)Would you perform the experiment?

b)If so, and the experiment wound up refuting your prior beliefs, how would you deal with that?

c)Suppose that the experiment can further tell you not only if a god exists, but which god or gods (ie, the God of the Bible, Allah, Thor, Zeus, etc). Do you still perform the experiment? Since I don't know of many muslims on soonerfans, lets just say that if you perform the experiment, you find that the only god that exists is Allah. How do you deal with that?

a) Yes

b) It would be devastating and I'd have to do a lot of soul searching. My whole life I've believed basically the same thing and it would be extremely difficult to find out your core belief system and faith was wrong.

c)Yes. However, if that also implies that the Koran is truly god's word, I don't think I could ever worship him. Telling people to convert or die seems dramatically immoral to me.

[TUSooner]

Only the truth blesses.
In.

[Harry Beanbag]

just because I'm curious as to how this turns out.


Suppose that there is some experiment you could do yourself (and thats impossible to screw up), and that the result of this experiment would give irrefutable proof that God either exists or doesn't exist. Without performing the experiment, you cannot reliably say which way it will turn out, however, once one person has performed the experiment, it will turn out the same way for every person that performs it.

a)Would you perform the experiment?

b)If so, and the experiment wound up refuting your prior beliefs, how would you deal with that?

c)Suppose that the experiment can further tell you not only if a god exists, but which god or gods (ie, the God of the Bible, Allah, Thor, Zeus, etc). Do you still perform the experiment? Since I don't know of many muslims on soonerfans, lets just say that if you perform the experiment, you find that the only god that exists is Allah. How do you deal with that?

a. Yes

b. I don't adhere to a Heaven or Hell template, so I'm not sure about this question.

c. I'm not a big believer in organized religion. The God I believe in doesn't need to tax people on Sundays, or want me to murder as many people as I can in His name, or give me guilt trips for being a human, or treat humans as marionette puppets. If I found out any of those things actually were true, I'd have a real hard time dealing with it.

[sooner_born_1960]

a. yes
b. GADOCADWI
c. yes, whichever version of God proves true is worthy of worship.

[12]

This is a very good question, though asked before many times over throughout our history. How many times have people of a forbidding faith been forced to accept their own children will fry in hell because they left the faith they were raised in? How about all those dead Jews and Japanese?

Personally, I'd love to know the answer and hope I would use that knowledge wisely. Chances are, though, I'd play the lottery and blow it all on great food and travel.

[SoonerTerry]

just because I'm curious as to how this turns out.


Suppose that there is some experiment you could do yourself (and thats impossible to screw up), and that the result of this experiment would give irrefutable proof that God either exists or doesn't exist. Without performing the experiment, you cannot reliably say which way it will turn out, however, once one person has performed the experiment, it will turn out the same way for every person that performs it.

a)Would you perform the experiment?

b)If so, and the experiment wound up refuting your prior beliefs, how would you deal with that?

c)Suppose that the experiment can further tell you not only if a god exists, but which god or gods (ie, the God of the Bible, Allah, Thor, Zeus, etc). Do you still perform the experiment? Since I don't know of many muslims on soonerfans, lets just say that if you perform the experiment, you find that the only god that exists is Allah. How do you deal with that?

A.Yes.. cause I believe

B. sheet a brick

C. Shoot him in the face

[fadada1]

PROOF!!!!!

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2254/imagesyd2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[JohnnyMack]

Other religions demand life-long sacrifice to a non-responsive or angry god.

Jesus was given as the sacrifice in our place. He freely gave his own life to remove the barrier that kept us from a relationship with the only loving God.


So did Christianity until that pesky Old Testament deity was replaced with a newer, kinder, gentler model that the masses were more receptive of.

[Viking Kitten]

I think it was C.S. Lewis who said, "There's a God-shaped hole in everyone's heart." Lots of people try to fill that void with all kinds of things - money, career, fallible human relationships, etc., but only God can make a person whole and truly content.

In yesterday's faith thread, somebody posted a comment along the lines that, because they had rejected the notion of God, they were much smarter and happier than everyone else. I thought that statement rather arrogant and presumptuous.

I find this quote by C.S. Lewis equally arrogant and presumptuous. Who is one human being to tell any other human being what they need to be happy and whole in their life? If someone needs faith or comfort or whatever it is they get out of religion, they should by all means get it there. Conversely, don't tell me my life is incomplete because I choose a different approach.

Adherence to dogma and lack of respect for differing beliefs is for me the biggest turnoff to organized religion. I hate hearing it from self defined atheists too.

To answer the Ike's question, I would absolutely perform the experiment. Given than I am absolutely certain of nothing right now, I suppose having certainty would be nice. And if the the alternate God happened to be Thor, well that would just kick all kinds of a**.

[JohnnyMack]

Who is one human being to tell any other human being what they need to be happy and whole in their life?

You need to be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. And to be less mouthy.

[SoonerInKCMO]

And to be less mouthy.

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. :texan:

As for the questions:
a) Yes.
b) Well, I'd be a bit embarrassed at first over my previous foolishness but I'd GADOCADWI.
c) Hey - whoever he/she/it is, that's my new guy/gal/thing.

[Viking Kitten]

I mean for real yo. Can you imagine how awesome it would be to worship this guy?

http://www.triplemind.com/images/gods/thor-painting.jpeg

Seriously. Just look at his... hammer of justice.

[shaun4411]

a) yes.

b) be elated for knowing the unrefutable truth

c) id get over it and it wouldnt bother me because knowing the truth is all we should ever strive to know

[proud gonzo]

haven't read the rest of the thread yet, by my answers are:
(a) no.

supposing I did the experiment anyway:
(b) wouldn't change much. If the answer to the question is yes, you still have to deal with the definition of "god".

(c)well, I already said I wouldn't do the experiment, but I'd rather do it under these circumstances than the first. Of course, then there's STILL the argument of how to interpret god's word (whatever text that may be) and how you're supposed to worship. so...basically the same as now. nevertheless, i suppose I'd be glad to know the truth.

But I still wouldn't do the experiment.

[King Crimson]

1. you do the experiment. sapere aude!

dare to know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_is_Enlightenment%3F

"Zöllner's question was addressed to a broad intellectual public, in reply to Biester's essay entitled: "Proposal, not to engage the clergy any longer when marriages are conducted" (April 1783) and a number of leading intellectuals replied with essays, of which Kant's is the most famous and has had the most impact. Kant's opening paragraph of the essay is a much-cited definition of a lack of Enlightenment as people's inability to think for themselves due not to their lack of intellect, but lack of courage."

http://philosophy.eserver.org/kant/what-is-enlightenment.txt

[Blue]

So did Christianity until that pesky Old Testament deity was replaced with a newer, kinder, gentler model that the masses were more receptive of.

Couldn't be more off.

[Blue]

It's pretty well established that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all agree it's the same God (Allah) they're worshiping.

No it's absolutely not. Any Christian proclaiming that is misled IMO.

The God of the Bible and the so called God of Islam are opposites. The teachings of both are at odds with each other.

[leavingthezoo]

a) i don't know.

b) i'd be suspect. i'd question all of the factors involved in the experiment, question if the predetermined absolutes were really absolutes, and wonder if there are key elements missing that could change the outcome of the experiment if only we knew of those elements...

c) i already think we (those who do) all pray to the same God... He knows it, i'm just not convinced the rest of us do. however, i suppose if there was a definitive answer that there is a SPECIFIC God, i'd acknowledge the outcome. there are two many unknown variables to know if i'd "accept" the outcome; meaning, worship that God.

now where's my sucker!?

[Frozen Sooner]

just because I'm curious as to how this turns out.


Suppose that there is some experiment you could do yourself (and thats impossible to screw up), and that the result of this experiment would give irrefutable proof that God either exists or doesn't exist. Without performing the experiment, you cannot reliably say which way it will turn out, however, once one person has performed the experiment, it will turn out the same way for every person that performs it.

a)Would you perform the experiment?

b)If so, and the experiment wound up refuting your prior beliefs, how would you deal with that?

c)Suppose that the experiment can further tell you not only if a god exists, but which god or gods (ie, the God of the Bible, Allah, Thor, Zeus, etc). Do you still perform the experiment? Since I don't know of many muslims on soonerfans, lets just say that if you perform the experiment, you find that the only god that exists is Allah. How do you deal with that?

a) Yes.

b) By modifying my beliefs. Presented with actual proof of God, it'd be silly to deny it.

c) Absolutely. If I found out that the god or gods that are real are unworthy of worship, I'd spend my life in struggle against them. If they were worthy of worship and wanted such, I'd worship them.

[Sooner_Havok]

First, as an outsider, I have to say that all the Abrahamic gods seem pretty much the same, it is what people make him into that are different.

Anywho

a) Yup

b) Wouldn't change a thing one way or another. I think I lead a pretty damn good life right now, if there is a god, I would hope he recognizes that. If there wasn't, well like I said, I already lead a pretty good life without carrot of heaven dangling in front of me, so not much would change there either.

c) I am really pulling for Odin, but hey, if it ain't I can cope. Like I said, I think I have lead a pretty good life to this point, and nothing is going to change my mind in that regard.

[Fraggle145]

a) Yes.

b) By modifying my beliefs. Presented with actual proof of God, it'd be silly to deny it.

c) Absolutely. If I found out that the god or gods that are real are unworthy of worship, I'd spend my life in struggle against them. If they were worthy of worship and wanted such, I'd worship them.

Ditto...

Id love to do that experiment... Imagine how many pubs I would get! ;)

[crawfish]

a)Would you perform the experiment?

b)If so, and the experiment wound up refuting your prior beliefs, how would you deal with that?

c)Suppose that the experiment can further tell you not only if a god exists, but which god or gods (ie, the God of the Bible, Allah, Thor, Zeus, etc). Do you still perform the experiment? Since I don't know of many muslims on soonerfans, lets just say that if you perform the experiment, you find that the only god that exists is Allah. How do you deal with that?


a) No. Matthew 4:7 says, "Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'" This is a quote from Deuteronomy 6:16, "Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah.", which refers to Exodus 17:7, "And he called the place Massah and Meribah because the Israelites quarreled and because they tested the LORD saying, "Is the LORD among us or not?"

Short version is, don't try and test to see if God exists or not. He may not honor it. No result could be conclusive. :)

b) See a. If you could prove that *some* god exists, it would conflict with my idea of God and I'd have to reconsider, though.

c) Well, heck, then I'm a Muslim. I have no problem with virgins. ;)

[OUDoc]

Short version is, don't try and test to see if God exists or not. He may not honor it. No result could be conclusive. :)

There's where I have a problem.

[crawfish]

There's where I have a problem.

It's not the only place. ;)

But I understand.

[crawfish]

(this begs another question that burns in my mind, that is completely unrelated to this experiment...why is it, that throughout history, gods have demanded worship from people?)


I can only answer that for my religion...but worship is for the worshiper, and not the god. It is a way of focusing your mind on the spiritual, a sort of "bath for the soul". Community and ritual are ways that we control ourselves and keep us on the right path. That isn't to say that worship is selfish or inwardly focused; Christian worship is a service that provides value for the assembly as a whole. Or, at least, it should be.

Even giving is for the giver; we are expected to give to the church not because God needs money, but because money and possessions are the chief rival in our hearts to God. By giving, we prioritize what is more important. Interestingly enough, this works to an advantage mentally, as those who are generous also tend to be the best managers of money (at least in my experience).

This isn't an idea limited to religion. The pledge of Allegience, for example, is a way we use community and ritual to foster patriotism. Recovery groups such as AA use ritual and community to help the addict control their behavior.