Life, liberty and the pursuit of happyness as a party plank

[Chuck Bao]

I got this long email yesterday from the Democrats Abroad organization.

I’m including the whole email, but the part that interests me is highlighted in bold – suggestions on the Democrats Abroad platform – so you can skip down and read only that part of the email.

Maybe this is now standard practice so that anyone who wants to suggest a plank in the party platform to please email them in. Anyway, this is a first for me.

I’m still amazed about this Democrats Abroad organization and how they’re starting to mobilize support and representation and effectively using the internet and emails to do it.


Dear Democrats Abroad member,

It’s been an exciting primary season so far for us, kicked off by our own Global Primary. Whether you voted in person, at over one hundred voting centers in over 30 countries, by mail, by fax, or on-line, your voice was heard.

Barack Obama won our worldwide primary, with 65.8% of the vote, followed by Hillary Clinton with 32.5%. Joe Biden received 0.1%; John Edwards 0.7%; Dennis Kucinich 0.6%; Bill Richardson 0.1%; and Uncommitted 0.2%.

You participated in the Global Primary, you read about it in your local paper, in the Stars and Stripes, in the Herald Tribune. Heard about it on the radio, saw it on TV. As we gathered around the world to vote, our story was picked up and followed – with photo coverage in both the LA Times and New York Times, and clips from CNN to NPR. Take a look at our site www.democratsabroad.org to see our Voting Centers from Indonesia to the UK to Mexico< /st1:place> and beyond.

But this is only the beginning. And it’s a long way to November and electing Democrats – from the White House to every House and Senate race across America with our votes from around the world.

Over the weekend, democrats across Europe, Middle East and Africa met in Brussels to select the first of our at-large delegates – 4 Obama delegates and 2 Clinton delegates -- to the Democratic National Convention.

In April, we’ll be meeting in Vancouver, for the Americas Regional Caucus to select 1 Obama delegate and 1 Clinton delegate, and the Asia-Pacific Regional Caucus to select 1 Obama delegate. Following those caucuses, 5 more delegates will be selected for a total of 3 Obama delegates and 2 Clinton Delegates at the Global Convention, along with an alternate for each candidate. (The clock is ticking for delegate candidates to send in forms and candidate statements – visit http://www.democratsabroad.org/article/2008/01/08/want-be-de legate-denver-deadlines-coming-delegate-filing-form-pdf.)

The count so far for Democrats Abroad? Our 22-member delegation will include 9 Obama delegates and 5 Clinton delegates elected at the Regional Caucuses and Global Convention. The remaining 8, our superdelegates, are currently 2 uncommitted, 2 Clinton, and 4 Obama delegates. So – 13 Obama, 7 Clinton, 2 uncommitted – each with a half vote at the Convention.

Democrats Abroad is also drafting the 2008 Platform, reflecting our views on the issues that matter. If you would like to make your voice heard this way, please submit your plank – or resolution – to [email protected]. Interested? Please send in your proposal as soon as possible. We’ll be posting both the 2004 Platform on the membership pages of the website, as well as the preliminary 2008 version in early April, before adopting our final platform in Vancouver.

Today, we care deeply about each of our candidates, and the challenges ahead. Like all of us, I want to take back our White House back this November, and elect democratic majorities in the House and the Senate. I hope that you will join in getting out the Democratic vote, by signing up today to register to vote at www.VoteFromAbroad.org, by encouraging your family, friends and colleagues to request their absentee ballots now (check out the tell-a-friend function on the site), by volunteering your time, talent and energy to get out the vote, and – if you can – by making a contribution to Democrats Abroad at https://secure.democratsabroad.org/contribute/ to help our efforts to get out the vote. Because with your help, we can elect a larger majority in the House, we can elect a filibuster-proof Senate, and we can elect a Democratic president.

Best,

Christine Schon Marques
International Chair
Democrats Abroad

This is my suggestion to the Democrats Abroad platform. It is yet to be fully thought out, so I appreciate your input.

Civil liberaties and privacy applies to all Americans regardless of domicile: Please, there is no need for the US government to spy on the emails and internet posts of Americans living overseas. Ahem…did you hear me, tap, tap, tap, I did say please and no thank you.

Double taxation isn’t right, when you actually think about it: Honestly, I’ve never had this problem before and it really isn’t my fault that the US dollar is so weak now and my overseas income suddenly seems to pay well. In fact, I’m barely scrapping by as it is and now I have to pay US taxes on income that I’ve already paid quite high personal income tax rates in my country of residence. Please, this is just creating another area where we are handing over outsourcing to locals and other nationalities. Now, take those bloody British chaps who don’t have to bear double taxation and don’t even have to file their overseas income. We just aren’t competing anymore and to the British? Indeed!

Life partner needs to mean more than squat: This is the queer part. Under the current rules, I have a choice – live in the country of my birth or live with the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, who happens to have been born outside of the US. So, this is a poor choice and it shouldn’t have to be. What the heck is up with people who get so tied up with the word marriage and then they can’t live up to the ideals that they espouse?

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happyness: With the above points, I don’t really expect any change. We do what we do and that’s the best we can. It is not about money. It is not about laying blame. It is not about spreading fear. Get a life and fully enjoy it. If not, get a sense of humor.

[SleestakSooner]

Vancouver ain't "abroad"! ROFL

[Chuck Bao]

Heh! ROFL and Vancouver is good place to take the significant other? More importantly, do they have good beer?

[Okla-homey]

I got this long email yesterday from the Democrats Abroad organization.

I’m including the whole email, but the part that interests me is highlighted in bold – suggestions on the Democrats Abroad platform – so you can skip down and read only that part of the email.

Maybe this is now standard practice so that anyone who wants to suggest a plank in the party platform to please email them in. Anyway, this is a first for me.

I’m still amazed about this Democrats Abroad organization and how they’re starting to mobilize support and representation and effectively using the internet and emails to do it.

This is my suggestion to the Democrats Abroad platform. It is yet to be fully thought out, so I appreciate your input.

Life partner needs to mean more than squat: This is the queer part. Under the current rules, I have a choice – live in the country of my birth or live with the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, who happens to have been born outside of the US. So, this is a poor choice and it shouldn’t have to be. What the heck is up with people who get so tied up with the word marriage and then they can’t live up to the ideals that they espouse?



I don't get it. Aren't people allowed to openly live the ghey lifestyle here in the US? What ghey-related advantages attach to life outside the US for such couplings? Or, are you talking ghey marriage? Because I'm down with that. That said, I think the whole idea is silly, and the advantages of marriage over legal remedies that already exist are way overblown (pardon the pun), but I can't deny ghey marriages should be allowed on equal protection grounds under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. I also think it ghey marriage will be good for the legal community because where there is a new segment of the population allowed to get married, at least half of those marriages (and probably far more than half in the case of two men, per the existing data) will inevitably need divorces a few years later. This could help shore up the divorce biz which has experienced a bit of a downtick since youngsters are increasingly prone merely to shack-up and eschew marriage.

[Jerk]

Homey - I think he means that they want to be able to marry their 'domestic partner' so they'll automatically achieve status as U.S. citizens, and then can move here with them.

My opinion is that we don't need to import any more democrats.

Can't you tell by reading this board and the members here that we have enough?;)

[Okla-homey]

Homey - I think he means that they want to be able to marry their 'domestic partner' so they'll automatically achieve status as U.S. citizens, and then can move here with them.

My opinion is that we don't need to import any more democrats.

Can't you tell by reading this board and the members here that we have enough?

But if ghey marriage became the the legal norm in the US, presumably a person could hook-up and marry some guy in Bangkok and then bring him back to the US no problemo. As long as he wasn't twelve years old or something. Thereafter, said Bangkok-er would, at least in half such cases, dump his importer spouse and get half his stuff. Ergo, big win for the Bangkok-er.:D

[Jerk]

But if ghey marriage became the the legal norm in the US, presumably a person could hook-up and marry some guy in Bangkok and then bring him back to the US no problemo. As long as he wasn't twelve years old or something. Thereafter, said Bangkok-er would, at least in half such cases, dump his importer spouse and get half his stuff. Ergo, big win for the Bangkok-er.:D


It would also be an opportunity for the 'mail-order bride' industry....except, I don't think they'd be called 'brides,' unless they were trannys.

[VeeJay]

...and they all get free health care and instant social security benefits.

[Chuck Bao]

You guys are just mean and not in a good way.

[Okla-homey]

You guys are just mean and not in a good way.

srlsly, if you split up over there, what does he get? nadda? That would most definitely NOT be the case here in the Land of the Free if y'all were married or "civil-ly union-ed." thus, look on the bright side. The status quo is helping keep your property safe, given the incidence of life-long same sex relationships in males is extremely exceptional.

[Chuck Bao]

Does there need to be any more evidence that the Repulicans are backed by a bunch of arrogant, self righteous pricks? WTF? You so afraid for me and my mail order bride, ***** boy? Get a life and just let me live mine.

[StoopTroup]

Canada is teh ghey?

[Jerk]

Does there need to be any more evidence that the Repulicans are backed by a bunch of arrogant, self righteous pricks? WTF? You so afraid for me and my mail order bride, ***** boy? Get a life and just let me live mine.


Not afraid; we just don't need anymore socialist voters.

We've reached our quota.

btw- you guys are much more concerned about other people's lives than we are.

[Mongo]

this thread is awesome

[Jerk]

Chuck, if you took all of the gays who believe in individual liberty, capitalism, self-reliance, responsibility, small government, and low taxes, and sent them here to the U.S. to become citizens, I wouldn't mind.

Point is, it's not their lifestyle that bothers me. I don't care what they do in their bedrooms. I betchya Homey or any of the Republicans here gives a flying **** what they do in their private lives. It's their tendency to be radical leftists that disturbs me.

[Chuck Bao]

Ahem... jerk...we are talking about Asians here. They don't make excuses and they tend to excel. Would a really, hard working and really cute guy make your list of capable Americans? I'm not asking you to do him or anything. I would just like a chance for him to meet my family. You can interview him if you like. That is if we ever get the visa for the embassy.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Exactly. The USA is about to take a big plunge into socialism, anyway. Let's try to keep as many freedoms as we can...the liberty part of the goal.

[Jerk]

Ahem... jerk...we are talking about Asians here. They don't make excuses and they tend to excel. Would a really, hard working and really cute guy make your list of capable Americans? I'm not asking you to do him or anything. I would just like a chance for him to meet my family. You can interview him if you like. That is if we ever get the visa for the embassy.

I'm just telling you what I hope. Not that I have any control over it. I hope that when people move here to the US that they want to adopt our way of life and keep it, gay or not gay. I'm being as honest with you as I can possibly be when I say that I don't care what people do in their bedrooms. There is a wing of the Republican party known as the evangelicals, and they probably do care. I'm more of a libertarian kind of guy. I believe in absolute freedom and the sovereign rights of the individual so long as what one does doesn't infringe on someone else's rights or freedom. Like the liberal's belief in zero-sum economics, I believe that when government gets bigger, individual rights get lessoned, if you will.

In other words, you do your thing, I'll do mine.

Hope, change, hope change.:D

[Chuck Bao]

Rush, dear heart, what are you talking about? There should be no plunge into socialism here or elsewhere, at least not in this thread. Boinking with mature 30-40 year olds that's still good and right, right?

In fact my boyfriend is a total cowboy. Except he wants to raise cattle and is a total vegatarian. And, how does that work, I don't know.

[Jerk]

In fact my boyfriend is a total cowboy. Except he wants to raise cattle and is a total vegatarian. And, how does that work, I don't know.

That means that the cows are actually pets and you have a very non-profitable ranch.

I've ran this idea of buying land and starting a ranch with my wife before and she says 'but they'll all stay.' Yeah, well, what would be the point?

Dude, I am not as evil as you think I am. I'm just paranoid about the future of this country and the way things are headed. It doesn't look good. We have way too many people who are becoming dependent on the government for their day-to-day needs, and it will destroy us in the long run. I shouldn't automatically assume that all gays are in that category.

[StoopTroup]

My theory is this...

Back in the 60's there was lots of LSD taking and Pot smoking...

Folks suddenly got the idea that not being of the "Norm" was OK.

Since then everyone that tries to be different goes through a stage in their life where they get PO'd when someone tells them they aren't doing the right thing...

Now the folks who gravitated towards the "Norm" of the past are constantly attacked by those that drive outside the the lines.

From this...I concur that the folks who live outside the US do so for one of two reasons:

1) Their dream in life was to live abroad and expand their horizons while helping Non-US Citizens understand why our Forefathers decided to come to America and build a Country For the People by the People, instead of being ruled by a King or a Tyrrant.

or

2) The Dope is better and easier to get outside the US.

[Ike]

Point is, it's not their lifestyle that bothers me. I don't care what they do in their bedrooms. I betchya Homey or any of the Republicans here gives a flying **** what they do in their private lives. It's their tendency to be radical leftists that disturbs me.


Serious question: Is it that gheys are mostly leftists by nature of their gheyism, or is it that gheys get lumped in with the leftists because the democrats are the only party that even pays lip service to their concerns?


In other words, if ghey rights weren't a political issue, would the gheys still be democrats?

I have no idea what the answer is. I don't know many gheys.

[yermom]

ok, yeah, he just came out now

[yermom]

But if ghey marriage became the the legal norm in the US, presumably a person could hook-up and marry some guy in Bangkok and then bring him back to the US no problemo. As long as he wasn't twelve years old or something. Thereafter, said Bangkok-er would, at least in half such cases, dump his importer spouse and get half his stuff. Ergo, big win for the Bangkok-er.:D

how is this any different than it is now for women?

not that i don't think the current laws on marriage and divorce aren't stupid

[Frozen Sooner]

Serious question: Is it that gheys are mostly leftists by nature of their gheyism, or is it that gheys get lumped in with the leftists because the democrats are the only party that even pays lip service to their concerns?


In other words, if ghey rights weren't a political issue, would the gheys still be democrats?

I have no idea what the answer is. I don't know many gheys.

The existence of Log Cabin Republicans shows that some homosexuals are pretty conservative in nature. Yes, I think if the Republican Party actually showed some kind of interest in homosexual issues you'd see a much more normal distribution of voting among that segment of the population.

[yermom]

they seem to be making the homosexual issues

[mdklatt]

The existence of Log Cabin Republicans

And Larry Craig, and Ted Haggard, and that pastor from Tulsa, and....

[Okla-homey]

IMHO, people generally view homosexuality from four perspectives.

1) Intolerance of the lifestyle as a sinful practice.

2) Secular tolerance of the lifestyle as a legal deviation from heterosexuality.

3) Secular tolerance of the lifestyle as normal and the moral equivalent of heterosexuality.

4) Complete acceptance of the lifestyle as the equal in every respect to heterosexuality.

The elephant party is generally populated with folks in the first two camps, thus, it's not particulalry homosexual-friendly. OTOH, the donkey party seems to be more heavily populated with people in the latter two camps.

Frankly, I'm generally pretty tolerant as long as folks are discrete, do whatever they do in private and don't insist I must be in school #4 or be branded a "hater." That's also my philosophy regarding illicit hetero shenanigans too.

The way I see it, any secks except secks within the confines of a hetero marriage is a no-go. I think the Bible is pretty clear on that, and that is where I hang my hat. Moreover, like most scriptural limitations, its for good reason. People get hurt, Especially women, when they succumb to the advances of playas. Some gals talk a good game about it just being physical, but a bazillion years of mental hard-wiring says otherwise. Casual doin's cheapens both parties to the hook-up and often result in bad emotional joo-joo all round. Especially when it results in illegitimate birth which is epidemic in this country and is one of the surest tickets to permanent poverty for "baby mama" known to us.

That said, the secular law of the land says people can do otherwise, thus, I'm prepared to defend their legal right to do the hibbidy-dibbidy with whomever...as long as its between consensual adults and no one gets hurt. IOW, tolerance, but not acceptance. What's more, if homosexual folks want to get married, big deal. Have a wedding and be married. Just don't expect me to show up if its in a church.

[Jerk]

Now here's a gay organization I can support:

http://www.pinkpistols.org
(http://phoenixpinkpistols.org/campaigns/heller.pdf)

[Chuck Bao]

That’s a very nice description there, Homey. Obviously, you’ve given it some thought.

So where do you fall on my party plank proposal? Would you support the idea of someone, say like me, moving back home with his foreign boyfriend? It’s not like we are going to produce lots of kids or anything like that.

And, you are way off base about the boyfriend, his name is Nope by the way, ditching me as soon as he lands up in the promise land of US of A. Nope is just too intent on raising cattle, and yeah, as pets. He doesn’t know about the breed of cattle we raise in Oklahoma. I mean it could be pretty fun to see how that would turn out.

Alright support my cause here.

[Jerk]

That’s a very nice description there, Homey. Obviously, you’ve given it some thought.

So where do you fall on my party plank proposal? Would you support the idea of someone, say like me, moving back home with his foreign boyfriend? It’s not like we are going to produce lots of kids or anything like that.

And, you are way off base about the boyfriend, his name is Nope by the way, ditching me as soon as he lands up in the promise land of US of A. Nope is just too intent on raising cattle, and yeah, as pets. He doesn’t know about the breed of cattle we raise in Oklahoma. I mean it could be pretty fun to see how that would turn out.

Alright support my cause here.

Dairy farm, dude. You two need a dairy farm.

[Jerk]

I have my own dreams of owning land and having lots of animals.

I'd like to start a chapter of the German Shepherd Rescue org. here in central OK. Tulsa already has one. If I could get 40 acres of well-fenced land, that would be nice. Problem is, wife would never let me adopt them out. Once they arrived, they'd be ours for life.

[Okla-homey]

That’s a very nice description there, Homey. Obviously, you’ve given it some thought.

So where do you fall on my party plank proposal? Would you support the idea of someone, say like me, moving back home with his foreign boyfriend? It’s not like we are going to produce lots of kids or anything like that.

And, you are way off base about the boyfriend, his name is Nope by the way, ditching me as soon as he lands up in the promise land of US of A. Nope is just too intent on raising cattle, and yeah, as pets. He doesn’t know about the breed of cattle we raise in Oklahoma. I mean it could be pretty fun to see how that would turn out.

Alright support my cause here.

If y'all wanna get married, that's fine with me. I just don't wanna see cowboy Nope marching in a Ghey Pride Parade in OKC in a$$less chaps. ;)

That said, on an entirely different level, I still think a relationship between two d00ds is doomed to fail because even if one can remain faithful, the other...not so much.

The odds run profoundly against such a match. Particularly when unbridled by any higher obligation to "forego all others for thy sake" as is one's obligation under holy matrimony. You see, once we decide we must fulfill our animal desires and consequences bedamned as in the decision to be "out", we've pretty much sold-out to our gonads. Thus, if someone else comes along who ignites our passions, we'll bust a nut to try that stuff out, consequences bedamned.

My opinion BTW, is based on my observations of ghey family members for about twenty some odd years. Without exception, each one is absolutely miserable. It's a hard life you've chosen. In all sincerity, I say, good luck with it.

[Chuck Bao]

If y'all wanna get married, that's fine with me. I just don't wanna see cowboy Nope marching in a Ghey Pride Parade in OKC in a$$less chaps. ;)

That said, on an entirely different level, I still think a relationship between two d00ds is doomed to fail because even if one can remain faithful, the other...not so much.

The odds run profoundly against such a match. Particularly when unbridled by any higher obligation to "forego all others for thy sake" as is one's obligation under holy matrimony. You see, once we decide we must fulfill our animal desires and consequences bedamned as in the decision to be "out", we've pretty much sold-out to our gonads. Thus, if someone else comes along who ignites our passions, we'll bust a nut to try that stuff out, consequences bedamned.

My opinion BTW, is based on my observations of ghey family members for about twenty some odd years. Without exception, each one is absolutely miserable. It's a hard life you've chosen. In all sincerity, I say, good luck with it.

First of all, you didn't answer the question.

Seond of all, so you're an expert on gay relations?

Nope and I have been together for five years. We are not miserable, thank you very much.

[Soonerus]

The continuing debate, hate, fate, mate...

[Chuck Bao]

The continuing debate, hate, fate, mate...

Another expert. We can throw away all the gay tags and that all still applies, well except the mate part.

[Jerk]

First of all, you didn't answer the question.

Seond of all, so you're an expert on gay relations?

Nope and I have been together for five years. We are not miserable, thank you very much.

You WILL be miserable if you end up with pet cows.

[Jerk]

Sorry I HATE cows. If they were a varmint like prairie dogs, then I'd shoot them for pleasure.

I can't tell you how many times I've been out coyote hunting and I've put my crosshairs on one of those big black fuzzy dumb basterrds, and thought to myself, "If I wouldn't have to pay this farmer $900 for this stupid cow, I'd squeez the trigger."

[SoonerBorn68]

I would say you're flame baiting but you'd take that out of context. :rolleyes:

[Soonerus]

Another expert. We can throw away all the gay tags and that all still applies, well except the mate part.

Hate was a reference to the State Rep who has made national news lately with her comments...embarrasing to the entire state...

[Turd_Ferguson]

where's the drunkytown thread at?

[Soonerus]

where's the drunkytown thread at?

You should start one...

[Turd_Ferguson]

You should start one...I'd rather see you start one Rus....it'd be more interesting

[Soonerus]

I'd rather see you start one Rus....it'd be more interesting

Don't be a turd...oh wait...sorry...

[Turd_Ferguson]

Don't be a turd...oh wait...sorry...Don't be a ****....oh wait...sorry...

[Soonerus]

Don't be a ****....oh wait...sorry...

Will you post if I start a "general" thread ???

[Turd_Ferguson]

Will you post if I start a "general" thread ???
Prolly not

[Soonerus]

Prolly not

I already figured that out..I'm in a pool tourney..be back later...

[Jerk]

HEY! It's against the rules to post while inebriated.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

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[olevetonahill]

That’s a very nice description there, Homey. Obviously, you’ve given it some thought.

So where do you fall on my party plank proposal? Would you support the idea of someone, say like me, moving back home with his foreign boyfriend? It’s not like we are going to produce lots of kids or anything like that.

And, you are way off base about the boyfriend, his name is Nope by the way, ditching me as soon as he lands up in the promise land of US of A. Nope is just too intent on raising cattle, and yeah, as pets. He doesn’t know about the breed of cattle we raise in Oklahoma. I mean it could be pretty fun to see how that would turn out.

Alright support my cause here.

Bro Ive teased Ya in the Past about beinin HoMo . I dont have a prob with it .
Why cant yer feller get a Visa ? Is it some Moral issue from Imigraition ?

[olevetonahill]

HEY! It's against the rules to post while inebriated.

Is Not
Just dont get drunk . I monitor Mine to try to stay below .10:cool:

[Jerk]

Is Not
Just dont get drunk . I monitor Mine to try to stay below .10:cool:

My method might not be as scientific but it still works. I'm on my 6th beer (6% liquor store beer) and I feel fine. If I feel fine, then that's okay, right? Because I feel...well....I feel friggin' great!

[olevetonahill]

My method might not be as scientific but it still works. I'm on my 6th beer (6% liquor store beer) and I feel fine. If I feel fine, then that's okay, right? Because I feel...well....I feel friggin' great!

But If You get outta Line They Put a Breathalyser On your Pc, And you Have to Blow Into it Befor you Can post !:eek:

[Jerk]

But If You get outta Line They Put a Breathalyser On your Pc, And you Have to Blow Into it Befor you Can post !:eek:

So much for my dream of becoming 'most prolific poster of SO'

[Mjcpr]

There is a Family Guy episode about this, I just know it. I think it's the one where Brian is staying with his cousin in Hollywood.

[LosAngelesSooner]

WOW. Gotta say, I'm really surprised.

#1 - This has been a really civil conversation for the most part.

#2 - I didn't have a clue CB was gay. And I met the dude.

Ya learn sumptin' new every day! :)

[Chuck Bao]

Bro Ive teased Ya in the Past about beinin HoMo . I dont have a prob with it .
Why cant yer feller get a Visa ? Is it some Moral issue from Imigraition ?

Thanks, Olevet, for bringing this thread back on point.

Basically, I don’t think that a gay relationship ranks very high with the US embassy. I mean embassy staff are already notoriously bad in handling US-Thai hetro marriages. They don’t come out and call the new bride a whore, but their disdain and contempt for any loser American who marries a Thai is pretty evident.

The best thing I can say about US embassy staff is that the British embassy people are probably worse in terms of arrogance and snobbery.

Oh, I can come up with a better compliment than that. They used to sell Dr. Pepper at the embassy - the only place I could get Dr. Pepper in Thailand, so I appreciate them very much. I guess they have large quantities of Dr. Pepper shipped in for embassy staff and then sell off the rest.

And, what? Olevet, you’ve teased me about me being a HoMo? You teased? Really? I guess my whole gay radar thing is broken because I’m not picking up anything on that thing at all.

[def_lazer_fc]

My opinion BTW, is based on my observations of ghey family members for about twenty some odd years. Without exception, each one is absolutely miserable. It's a hard life you've chosen. In all sincerity, I say, good luck with it.

so with all that, you still think it's a "chosen" lifestyle? they choose to be humiliated, judged, attacked, and all around belittled all their lives just because they got the inkling to try the other white meat? funny. if its such a choice, why couldn't you just "choose" to like dudes one day? just for one day. hmmm? oh yeah, it doesn't work like that huh? :rolleyes:

[Okla-homey]

so with all that, you still think it's a "chosen" lifestyle? they choose to be humiliated, judged, attacked, and all around belittled all their lives just because they got the inkling to try the other white meat? funny. if its such a choice, why couldn't you just "choose" to like dudes one day? just for one day. hmmm? oh yeah, it doesn't work like that huh? :rolleyes:

choice in the sense one chooses to give in to ones cravings.

now, please, here me out. First off, I'm not convinced its settled either way on whether people are homosexual purely by choice or whether they are indeed "made that way." However, choice is still a relevant and pertinent issue for debate even if we are willing to concede the point on being "born that way."

I refuse to accept the notion "because that is the way God (or TFSM if you prefer) made me" as a license to engage in any proclivity that strikes one's fancy. Personally, I believe God imbued in me a great desire for women. Most of them in fact. I enjoy their company and and greatly admire them. Now, were I to suggest because "God made me that way" I should be given a pass to slip around on my wife of over 25 years, people would generally consider me a cad.

I honestly believe the notion applies to homosexuality. I think if you indeed happen to be "made that way," it should not necessarily follow that gives you the moral right to to indulge that deviance. Mind you, in America, you have the legal and civil right to indulge. But not the moral right.

Moreover, if biological proclivities trump moral accountability for deviant acts, it follows logically that alcoholics, drug addicts, pedophiles, polygamists, kleptomaniacs and arsonists would all be able to defend their lifestyles on the same grounds.

I leave you with this,


"No doubt Jack the Ripper excused himself on the grounds that it was his human nature." -- A. A. Milne

Rational human beings always have a choice. Whether a person chooses to act on his or her homosexuality is a personal decision each must make. What's more, the decision to live that way bears implications and negative consequences. In the instant case, one of those consequences appears to be forced life abroad.

[Okla-homey]

First of all, you didn't answer the question.

Seond of all, so you're an expert on gay relations?

Nope and I have been together for five years. We are not miserable, thank you very much.

I am not an expert on much of anything. However, I do consider myself a reasonably acute observer of the human condition. I've yet to meet any "out" homosexual person who was truly content with his chosen lifestyle. My relatives who are "out" are, to the person; morose, frustrated and indignant. Now, that said, they choose to outwardly conceal it in affected flamboyance and mirth, but conversations over time all led to eventual admissions they were very unhappy people. One chose to take his own life. One chose to engage in reckless behavior and contracted HIV. I concede, lesbians do seem to have an easier time of it, but I think that's mostly because society somehow seems to be less disgusted and dismissive of homosexuality in females. Especially when the partners in a lesbian relationship are discrete.

As far as your second point goes, I am sincerely happy for you and also happy to learn I am now aware of at least two male homosexuals who are happy in their choice to outwardly live that way. I must add however, it appears all is not milk and honey in that you began this thread lamenting the fact you and he cannot come to the United States. Whether or not that consequence leads eventually to misery and a break-up can only be known over time. As I said, I'm willing to defend the rights you have now. I concede you probably should be granted the right to legally join your life to that of another if you choose to do so. If that means a marriage that will enable you and he to come to the United States, so be it. But I'm not interested in signing any petitions or anything like that. The way I see it, that would be enabling your choice, and since I consider it a destructive choice, I'm not supportive enough of it to perform affirmative enabling acts.

[olevetonahill]

Bro
I guess I was Real subtle In my teasing ,
Now You answer me a ? Why Cant he at least get a Visitors Visa ?

[Chuck Bao]

You are so confused, misguided and so off base, Homey, that it isn’t even funny.

What does promiscuity have to do with it? So, what if a gay couple remains faithful to each other, as Khun Nope and I have been for 5 years? Congratulations on the 25 years of faithful and beautiful relationship by the way.

But no, you are talking about NEVER the chance to have sex, NEVER find that right person that floats your boat. Go ahead and make a vow of chastity right now and choose to forsake your wife because of some crazy belief in morality. See how easy that is.

And, you call it deviant several times and liken it to what? …alcoholics, drug addicts, pedophiles, polygamists, kleptomaniacs and arsonists. Oh yeah and Jack the Ripper! Funny guy, you are!

You mention God several times as if the little queers are going to go running for cover when it’s time to meet their maker. That’s not going to happen because it really isn’t a choice at all. The maker made me like this and frankly I’m glad he did.

You can be selective in getting quotes out of the Bible. But, have you read the whole thing? If you take the Old Testament literally and follow all of it, I’d be surprised. I mean you aren’t going to accuse someone of lose morality because they eat pork or shellfish.

If it were so important, you’d think Jesus would have said more about it, but he didn’t. But, he did say quite a bit about those rich people. Funny how that got all turned around.

Paul in his letters to various churches did write some things about men sleeping with men, etc. Paul maybe was inspired by God to write these letters and I admit that his words are an inspiration to me. But, I really don’t think the lay people are going to completely follow Paul’s example. I mean he never married, did he? And, he was a bit of a misogynist with the whole women not speaking out loud in church thing. If you are going to quote Paul, then do and live by it. The whole idea that you have to have a pecker to speak in church is…what? Do you think you need a pecker to channel God or have a relationship with God? Is that how it works because it just seems a bit degrading for the fairer sex.

But, hey, you go for it if you think it’s right. And, I’ll go with mine.

[Chuck Bao]

Bro
I guess I was Real subtle In my teasing ,
Now You answer me a ? Why Cant he at least get a Visitors Visa ?

You are one cute guy, Olevet, a chick magnet, a gay guy magnet and you probably drain about half of the state’s energy supply. Well, I don’t know about that, but probably Ike can explain it scientifically with the photons and protons and electrons and quirks sunnyside up and sunnyside down.

I had such a bad experience before. And I was like so prepared for the hey this is my world whole dealio, except boyfriend got a permanent stamp in his passport of “denied”.

I was so distraught over it and I asked the US embassy staff if he enjoyed his job because it must suck. That wasn’t one of my finer moments in the art of embassy diplomacy.

I’m going to have to work on that.

[Okla-homey]

But no, you are talking about NEVER the chance to have sex, NEVER find that right person that floats your boat. Go ahead and make a vow of chastity right now and choose to forsake your wife because of some crazy belief in morality. See how easy that is.

Difficulty in doing the morally correct thing should have absolutely no bearing on whether we choose to do a thing or not. Although, people who overcome challenges life places in their path are often heralded as role models and quite inspirational to others so afflicted who are trying to do what's right. The view you seem to be espousing is the modernly popular notion sometimes labelled as "moral relativism." I'm not an adherent of that philosophy and I beleive things can be fundamentally sorted in terms of right and wrong.

In the end, as you say, we must agree to disagree and go in peace. Peace to you and may you find continued happiness.

[Mongo]

I have heard this of their women, but do Asian men have sideways penises?

[Chuck Bao]

Okay, is that like a perspective thing? Because, really you can look at it anyway you want to.

[mdklatt]

My relatives who are "out" are, to the person; morose, frustrated and indignant.

Gee, you think it might anything to do with attitudes like those in this thread?

I think anybody might get a little ****y if people constantly felt the need to tell them they were defective or evil. Which is also why the whole "it's a choice" meme is such BS. Who is going to choose to have to put up with that their entire life? FWIW, I don't think it even matters if it's a choice or not. It's nobody's business where somebody wants to stick it, save the person they're sticking it to.

[47straight]

Sigh. It's about public enforcement of contracts, not sticking it and whose business it might not be.

[olevetonahill]

You are one cute guy, Olevet, a chick magnet, a gay guy magnet and you probably drain about half of the state’s energy supply. Well, I don’t know about that, but probably Ike can explain it scientifically with the photons and protons and electrons and quirks sunnyside up and sunnyside down.

I had such a bad experience before. And I was like so prepared for the hey this is my world whole dealio, except boyfriend got a permanent stamp in his passport of “denied”.

I was so distraught over it and I asked the US embassy staff if he enjoyed his job because it must suck. That wasn’t one of my finer moments in the art of embassy diplomacy.

I’m going to have to work on that.

Ok Now your Maken Me pull Hens teeth here. Why the Perma baine ?
When My son brought His GF over from Germany we had to Get Family Bank statement For the Past year. Not Just His But Mine as well. A statement from Our banker that she wasntly Likely to Become a ward of the state ,, That Kinda Carp .
So againg why The Perma ?

[Scott D]

My relatives who are "out" are, to the person; morose, frustrated and indignant. Now, that said, they choose to outwardly conceal it in affected flamboyance and mirth, but conversations over time all led to eventual admissions they were very unhappy people. One chose to take his own life. One chose to engage in reckless behavior and contracted HIV.

Straight people can contract HIV without any sort of homosexual contact via reckless behavior. Plenty of straight single and married people are unhappy people. Plenty of straight people can be morose, frustrated, and indignant.

I think your relatives that are "out" and miserable about it has a lot more to do with how family behaviors toward them changed. As social creatures most people rely on family to be on their side through thick and thin.

Really the only major difference between now and 300 years ago in regards to male homosexuality is that they aren't getting red hot pokers shoved up their asses for their 'crimes against the church and God'.

[Okla-homey]

FWIW, I don't think it even matters if it's a choice or not. It's nobody's business where somebody wants to stick it, save the person they're sticking it to.

I agree. However, I hope you'll agree its not "hate" to hold the sincere belief something is morally reprehensible. Because once we go there, we risk losing all our freedoms. Not just the freedom to "do" whomever we want.

[olevetonahill]

#1 You Can eat at the HOTdog stand all you want , I really dont Care
#2 Chicks can eat at the Y all they want to I dont Care ( but being the Perv that I am , I will watch )
#3 anyone can be repulsed By anything they want . I dont care . See Its when we decide that what Others are doing that Hurts No one, is wrong. Thats when we start losing OUR freedoms .

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i was going to set some up some things up on the board to allow you guys to have private debates, but first i need to know that you can keep things civil. remember, it is possible to find things in a persons life "morally reprehensible", like using mayonaisse on a sandwich, and still not attack the person who finds it perfectly within their rights as a human being.

[Okla-homey]

i was going to set some up some things up on the board to allow you guys to have private debates, but first i need to know that you can keep things civil. remember, it is possible to find things in a persons life "morally reprehensible", like using mayonaisse on a sandwich, and still not attack the person who finds it perfectly within their rights as a human being.

and that fact my friend, is at the essence of why a secular government is superior to a theocracy.

[yermom]

yet you want to legislate things based on your moral code?

jkm, define "private debate" :confused:

[Boarder]

so with all that, you still think it's a "chosen" lifestyle? they choose to be humiliated, judged, attacked, and all around belittled all their lives just because they got the inkling to try the other white meat? funny. if its such a choice, why couldn't you just "choose" to like dudes one day? just for one day. hmmm? oh yeah, it doesn't work like that huh? :rolleyes:
I am just using your quote because it's the first one I saw, people say this all the time. But to address the "why would someone choose to be ridiculed, etc, all thier lives" argument...

How many people have you ever seen that were born with purple hair, a ton of tattoos, and metal cone piercings on their face? None? So they chose to be different than "normal" public? In thier own little group or at Hot Topic they fit in and everything is cool. But put them in the local Kiwanis Club and I'm sure they will not be so quickly accepted. Maybe, but probably not.

Why would someone choose to wear an osu shirt to an OU game? Why would someone choose to curse loudly in public places?

So, not saying it's a choice or it's not to be gay at all. Just saying you can't use the "why would they choose to be ridiculed" excuse.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

yet you want to legislate things based on your moral code?

jkm, define "private debate" :confused:

vb 3.7 has the ability to start threads and only allow certain posters to respond in them. visibility can be determined by the thread starter. someone was nice enough to port this into a hack for 3.6. although it sounds communist, i think it would work for some especially if they want to debate sensitive topics without someone popping in trying to flamebait the thread.

it obviously has the ability to be abused but think of it as a multithreaded pm exchange. i just don't want it to constantly degenerate into an infraction fest.

[SleestakSooner]

I think the question here really should be which group is considered morally reprehensible... homosexuals or lawyers?

[BigRedJed]

Trial lawyers from Texas who wear burnt orange and bowties. I think we can all agree on that one.

[C&CDean]

OK, color me slow. The buttplug avatar should have been my first clue. So ol' Chuck's coming out huh? Oh goody.

1. Nope is your boyfriend's name? No. Way. Do you know how far I could run with that one?

2. We all have to live with our decisions. BTW, decisions = choices.

3. I've been tempted to try all kinds of **** in my life. I've chosen not to on much of it.

4. Every time I hear somebody use the "why would someone choose to be ridiculed" argument I want to puke. It's lame, overused, and complete bull****.

5. You may want to let ol' Nope know that it'd probably be in his best interest to not come out to Oklahoma and raise cattle for pets. People would talk. Alot.

6. I still love you Chuck, even though I despise your chosen lifestyle.

[12]

Wait, I thought Chuck had been fairly open about his, er, "affiliation" in the past.

While I could not possibly care less about his lifestyle, I DO think raising pet cattle in Oklahoma would be a mistake. Somehow, that seems morally evil.;)

[olevetonahill]

I wanta Be like Dean and Raise Pet Hamburgers and Steaks :D

[BigRedJed]

I like my pets medium-rare.

[C&CDean]

I smoked a brisket from #6 yesterday for Easter. She was a heifer who broke her leg while the bull was trying to give her the bidness. Couldn't keep up with the herd, so I penned her, fed her out, and butchered her.

She has been DAMN fine eating. The T-bones, filets, and sirloin are cut-with-a-fork tender. I even grilled a round steak with a little olive oil, sea salt, and crushed pepper (and a dash of Cavendar's) and you could cut it with a butter knife.

Cattle make crappy pets - but make excellent table fare.

[olevetonahill]

There In is the Proof That God Loves and Wants us to be happy .

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Actually if God wanted you to be happy...wouldn't we still be in Eden ;)

[olevetonahill]

Actually if God wanted you to be happy...wouldn't we still be in Eden ;)

That maybe true . But we cant have Steak everyday

[BigRedJed]

Says you.

[olevetonahill]

Says you.

Thats Why I have Natty :P

[BigRedJed]

Natty is no substitute for a good steak. I hate to break it to you. :D

[olevetonahill]

Natty is no substitute for a good steak. I hate to break it to you. :D

But Natty will Help you Get thru the Times Of NO steak better than Steak will help get you thru Times of No Natty
just sayin

[Stoop Dawg]

choice in the sense one chooses to give in to ones cravings.

now, please, here me out. First off, I'm not convinced its settled either way on whether people are homosexual purely by choice or whether they are indeed "made that way." However, choice is still a relevant and pertinent issue for debate even if we are willing to concede the point on being "born that way."

I refuse to accept the notion "because that is the way God (or TFSM if you prefer) made me" as a license to engage in any proclivity that strikes one's fancy. Personally, I believe God imbued in me a great desire for women. Most of them in fact. I enjoy their company and and greatly admire them. Now, were I to suggest because "God made me that way" I should be given a pass to slip around on my wife of over 25 years, people would generally consider me a cad.

I honestly believe the notion applies to homosexuality. I think if you indeed happen to be "made that way," it should not necessarily follow that gives you the moral right to to indulge that deviance. Mind you, in America, you have the legal and civil right to indulge. But not the moral right.

Moreover, if biological proclivities trump moral accountability for deviant acts, it follows logically that alcoholics, drug addicts, pedophiles, polygamists, kleptomaniacs and arsonists would all be able to defend their lifestyles on the same grounds.

I leave you with this,



Rational human beings always have a choice. Whether a person chooses to act on his or her homosexuality is a personal decision each must make. What's more, the decision to live that way bears implications and negative consequences. In the instant case, one of those consequences appears to be forced life abroad.

What does any of that have to do with said people trying to change the legal repurcussions of their "choice"? Bitching for the sake of bitching gets rather annoying, but the OP seemed to be a recommendation to a political organization to take up same-sex marriage as part of it's platform.

If you want so badly to sleep around with women, perhaps you should work to make such behavior more socially acceptable (although, I'm not sure there is much work to do there).

[BigRedJed]

But Natty will Help you Get thru the Times Of NO steak better than Steak will help get you thru Times of No Natty
just sayin
Touché.

[Chuck Bao]

OK, color me slow. The buttplug avatar should have been my first clue. So ol' Chuck's coming out huh? Oh goody.

1. Nope is your boyfriend's name? No. Way. Do you know how far I could run with that one?

2. We all have to live with our decisions. BTW, decisions = choices.

3. I've been tempted to try all kinds of **** in my life. I've chosen not to on much of it.

4. Every time I hear somebody use the "why would someone choose to be ridiculed" argument I want to puke. It's lame, overused, and complete bull****.

5. You may want to let ol' Nope know that it'd probably be in his best interest to not come out to Oklahoma and raise cattle for pets. People would talk. Alot.

6. I still love you Chuck, even though I despise your chosen lifestyle.

Good grief, Dean. And, I was so hoping that this thread would attract some discussion about party platforms and not get personal and, if it didn’t, it would soon drop off of page one.

This wasn’t supposed to be my coming out party. For that, we are going to have to serve cake, margaritas or other cocktails and hire male strippers and do a whole tranny cabaret show. You are not too slow. We need a proper party.

His name is Nopadon and everyone calls him Nope. Run with it if you want. Since you’re obviously bashful, let me start: Nope, Nope, Nope, oh yeah!

People are going to talk? Do you think that should really matter? I don’t ever think about that being ridiculed argument. I’m going to live my life and just get on with it. There are always meanie poopie heads in the world. Why bother with them?

As previously stated, I have my reservations about the raising cattle as pets. Water buffalo or the Brahman breed of cattle in Thailand have had like a 1-2,000 years of being domesticated and you can just walk up to one and pet them. Cattle breeds in Oklahoma are a little different. This I know from experience.

So, would you support my party plank? Can I live in the US with my friend? Can we be like gay cattle ranchers without impugning on the good name of US beef ranchers everywhere?

[C&CDean]

Good grief, Dean. And, I was so hoping that this thread would attract some discussion about party platforms and not get personal and, if it didn’t, it would soon drop off of page one.

This wasn’t supposed to be my coming out party. For that, we are going to have to serve cake, margaritas or other cocktails and hire male strippers and do a whole tranny cabaret show. You are not too slow. We need a proper party.

His name is Nopadon and everyone calls him Nope. Run with it if you want. Since you’re obviously bashful, let me start: Nope, Nope, Nope, oh yeah!

People are going to talk? Do you think that should really matter? I don’t ever think about that being ridiculed argument. I’m going to live my life and just get on with it. There are always meanie poopie heads in the world. Why bother with them?

As previously stated, I have my reservations about the raising cattle as pets. Water buffalo or the Brahman breed of cattle in Thailand have had like a 1-2,000 years of being domesticated and you can just walk up to one and pet them. Cattle breeds in Oklahoma are a little different. This I know from experience.

So, would you support my party plank? Can I live in the US with my friend? Can we be like gay cattle ranchers without impugning on the good name of US beef ranchers everywhere?

I don't believe I "got personal."

You may live anywhere you like with whomever you like as far as I'm concerned. And I think the whole gay cattle rancher waters have been tested by Hollywood in their little Brokeback flick so that's not even news anymore.

Now if you want to go a little deeper into it, I support your right to live with whomever you wish. I support your right to share finances, etc. What I do not support is a changing of the laws that allow a couple dudes the right to be married. That's just plain freaky.

**** whoever you want. I don't like it, I don't think it's right, but if you'd just keep it in the bedroom (like the gays used to say was all they wanted) then you wouldn't have any problems. It's when y'all try and get other people who vehemently disagree with your lifestyle to jump on the rainbow train that you run into problems.

And when you throw that party, I'd like to come. No pun intended.

[Stoop Dawg]

Now if you want to go a little deeper into it, I support your right to live with whomever you wish. I support your right to share finances, etc. What I do not support is a changing of the laws that allow a couple dudes the right to be married. That's just plain freaky.


How do you "share finances" without being married? I was unaware that you could file a joint tax return without being legally married.

[Chuck Bao]

For the record, I'm okay with civil unions as long as the US embassy recognizes it and it takes me a step closer to returning home. Otherwise, those are pretty empty words, totally freaky or not, from my perspective.

[Okla-homey]

One last question CB. Admittedly nunmabidness, but what is the age differential between you and your significant other?

[SoonerTerry]

What has shocked me about this thread is..

They have teh interwebs in thailand!!!?!?!

[C&CDean]

How do you "share finances" without being married? I was unaware that you could file a joint tax return without being legally married.

Really easy.

When I was in the Army, I shared finances with a guy. We were both tired of living in the barracks and wanted to get off-post. We went looking for a small house to rent and a realtor encouraged us to pool our resources and buy since we couldn't qualify for **** on our individual salaries.

So we bought a nice little 3 bedroom 2 bath place in Fayetteville, NC. We shared a checking account for the mortgage and utilities. We pooled our $$ for almost everything - except vehicles. He was a bigtime bicycle racer and spent all his transportation $$ on bikes and parts. I spent mine on a vehicle and he rode with me to work during bad weather and rode his bike during good. We each filed separate income tax returns.

We were the best of friends. After we both ETSd out of the military, we sold the house and split the profits. He headed home to California, and I headed back to Tucson. I still talk to him occasionally to this day.

So, the only thing lacking here from a Chuck situation is the secks. Why do gay people need to be "recognized" for being gay? Like I said, boink whoever you want, just stop shouting about how you're being discriminated against. If you'd shut your pie hole and keep it in the privacy of your home a whole lot of folks wouldn't give a damn.

And for you Chuck, they may be "totally empty words from your perspective" but not from mine.

[Mjcpr]

Did one of you end up living in a trailer out in the boonies after the other one passed away later in life?

[Chuck Bao]

One last question CB. Admittedly nunmabidness, but what is the age differential between you and your significant other?

About 10 years, Homey. Mid-30s and mid-40s.

Alright, Dean. Just forget about discrimination and keep my mouth shut and people won’t give a damn. Got it.

[C&CDean]

No Pat, but thanks for asking.

[C&CDean]

Alright, Dean. Just forget about discrimination and keep my mouth shut and people won’t give a damn. Got it.

Try it. You might be amazed at how well it works. Nobody likes a militant loudmouth - regardless of the "cause." Just sayin'.

[BigRedJed]

...So, the only thing lacking here from a Chuck situation is the secks...
So there WAS kissing and handholding? I knew it!

[Mongo]

And when you throw that party, I'd like to come. No pun intended.

whatever, you admins are just full of them:D


This message has been deleted by Beano's Fourth Chin. Reason: Come on guys.

[BigRedJed]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/misc/yellowcard_small.gifLife, liberty and the... (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2262752#post2262752) 3/25/2008 10:03 AM4/1/2008 10:03 AM 0****ing off DeanC&CDean (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/member.php?u=36704)

Heh. I think "****ing off Dean" is my new favorite infraction. :D

[yermom]

Try it. You might be amazed at how well it works. Nobody likes a militant loudmouth - regardless of the "cause." Just sayin'.

yeah, the only problem is that if he were straight he could move his partner to the US permanently. so he can sit quietly outside of the country, or he can complain that he doesn't have the rights that other people do

i don't really see that as being a militant loudmouth

it's not like he wants the 10 rules of ghey secks posted at the court house or something

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

It actually would be ALOT easier for him to get into the country illegally than do it legally....

[12]

When I was in the Army, I shared finances with a guy. We were both tired of living in the barracks and wanted to get off-post.

Dear Play Girl,...

[C&CDean]

yeah, the only problem is that if he were straight he could move his partner to the US permanently. so he can sit quietly outside of the country, or he can complain that he doesn't have the rights that other people do

i don't really see that as being a militant loudmouth

it's not like he wants the 10 rules of ghey secks posted at the court house or something

So my suggestion to Chuck would be go find a Nope in Oregon or somewhere. There's a million Nopes in the sea.

Why should we change the laws to kowtow to a very small fraction of the population who want the laws changed to fit their deviant lifestyle? Doesn't make sense. At all.

[yermom]

is that a joke?

heck, take a look at Jeremy885's old posts about getting his female spouse here from Russia

[Stoop Dawg]

We each filed separate income tax returns.

Why?


Why do gay people need to be "recognized" for being gay?

Why do you want to be treated better just because you are hetero?



Why should we change the laws to kowtow to a very small fraction of the population who want the laws changed to fit their deviant lifestyle? Doesn't make sense. At all.

If you are making it your mission to fight against laws that only pertain to a very small fraction of the population you are going to be a very busy man.

A very small fraction of the people in this country are hunters. What say we abolish it? ;)

[Stoop Dawg]

One more point. One can make the argument that allowing homosexuals to "marry" each other is tantamount to granting them "extra" rights. That's because they are already free to marry a person of the opposite secks. Thus, granting them the right to marry a person of their own secks is an "extra" right.

Be careful, you wouldn't want to pull anything making that stretch.


Moreover, creation of this "additional" right starts us down the proverbial "slippery slope" that could end up at the bottom of the hill in allowing people to; marry more than one person at once; marry a 9 y/o; or marry their cat.

I'd actually be all for abolishing the legal distiction of "married". Leave "marriage" to the churches. Slippery slope = avoided.

[C&CDean]

Why?

Because we weren't married. DOH. Dumb question.



Why do you want to be treated better just because you are hetero?

I don't want to be treated any better than any other normal person. Even dumber question.



If you are making it your mission to fight against laws that only pertain to a very small fraction of the population you are going to be a very busy man.

A very small fraction of the people in this country are hunters. What say we abolish it? ;)

My mission? Dude, like I said, I could give a **** who Chuck dips his wick into. None of my business whatsoever. He's trying to make it my business and I'm just saying "no thanks, keep it behind closed doors."

.

[Okla-homey]

One more point. One can make the argument that allowing homosexuals to "marry" each other is tantamount to granting them "extra" rights. That's because they are already free to marry a person of the opposite secks. Thus, granting them the right to marry a person of their own secks is an "extra" right.

Moreover, creation of this "additional" right starts us down the proverbial "slippery slope" that could end up at the bottom of the hill in allowing people to; marry more than one person at once; marry a 9 y/o; or marry their cat.

Now, I don't hold with that line of thought. In fact, I'm not sure any reasonable person does, but I've read many a Court opinion that engaged in precisely that sort of parsing to deny someone the right to do something or other.

Suffice to say, I believe homosexual marriage is unlikely to be the law of the "Fruited Plain" until the generation now in college assumes power in the halls of Congress and the several state legislatures.

IOW, give it another 15 or 20 years Chuck. When you are 60 and Nope is 50, I'd wager you guys will be able to saddle-up for the Sooner State. Or at least texass.

[Boarder]

Why can't Nope just immigrate to the US? I thought it was easy to do that.

[shaun4411]

personally, i dont care if the gays want to get married. it makes no difference to me. it isnt gifting them an extra right. its gifting the same rights as heteros. why do you care? you really think its a slippery slope? the gays have a legit reason to want to marry, and its as legit as suzy wanting to marry billy. a polygamist doesnt have that same legitimacy. so the slippery slope argument doesnt carry too much weight.

[C&CDean]

personally, i dont care if the gays want to get married. it makes no difference to me. it isnt gifting them an extra right. its gifting the same rights as heteros. why do you care? you really think its a slippery slope? the gays have a legit reason to want to marry, and its as legit as suzy wanting to marry billy. a polygamist doesnt have that same legitimacy. so the slippery slope argument doesnt carry too much weight.

Huh? Talk about flawed.

If you wanna get really, really neanderthal about it, people marry to have kids and become a family for the continuation of our species. A polygamist has every bit as much legitimacy - and more - than a gay person does in this argument. We were put here to procreate. We weren't put here to get our rocks off on whatever feels good and have a good time.

Of course if you can do both, then God bless you.

[BigRedJed]

I'm sorry. Everytime I click on this thread now all I can think about is Dean giving his Army buddy a foot rub, and it gives me the giggles.

:dean:

[C&CDean]

Oh, I see somebody is looking for a different colored card...

[BigRedJed]

BUT WE WEREN'T HAVING THE SECKS!!!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

personally, i dont care if the gays want to get married. it makes no difference to me. it isnt gifting them an extra right. its gifting the same rights as heteros. why do you care? you really think its a slippery slope? the gays have a legit reason to want to marry, and its as legit as suzy wanting to marry billy. a polygamist doesnt have that same legitimacy. so the slippery slope argument doesnt carry too much weight.Seems to me allowing the definition of marriage to change by broadening it to allow same sex marriage would, indeed, open the door for further changes, such as more than two people in a marriage. The whole controversy is about legislating acceptance of, and/or condoning behaviors that are not allowed by most conventional religions.

[GrapevineSooner]

Myself, I support the right of homosexual couples to have parallel rights as those to heterosexual couples like myself when it comes to things such as insurance, guardianship, power of attorney, tax benefits, etc. etc.

But I also see Homey's viewpoint that you can't just pass a law stating gay marriage is legal and not expect these other shams to challenge the justice system.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

All you have to do is change the wording really. Marriage is constituted by the legal bonding of two people of legal ages both of sound mind. That isn't too complicated, there isn't a way you can turn that into marrying eight years old or dogs. Heterosexuals have done more to damage the union of marriage than gays could ever do really...

[shaun4411]

Seems to me allowing the definition of marriage to change by broadening it to allow same sex marriage would, indeed, open the door for further changes, such as more than two people in a marriage. The whole controversy is about legislating acceptance of, and/or condoning behaviors that are not allowed by most conventional religions.

i already noted that it is the gays who have a legitimate reason to want to marry, not polygamists (illegal) or animal lovers (illegal). being homo isnt illegal. the fact that it goes against the grain of conventional religion doesnt matter.

and no court would even hear someon's claim to want to marry an animal or 3 wives. so that isnt an issue.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

i already noted that it is the gays who have a legitimate reason to want to marry, not polygamists (illegal) or animal lovers (illegal). being homo isnt illegal. the fact that it goes against the grain of conventional religion doesnt matter.

and no court would even hear someon's claim to want to marry an animal or 3 wives. so that isnt an issue.homosexual marriage is just as illegal as polygamy and animal-human marriage. So, I reiterate my point.

[shaun4411]

homosexual marriage is just as illegal as polygamy and animal-human marriage. So, I reiterate my point.

yep, marriage is. but being gay isnt. i just find it humorous that christians feel so strongy about something that really has no bearing or affect on them. its like saying a beautiful woman cant get with an uncouth obese fried chicken eating tub of lard. just cause it isnt conventional its wrong! oh no!

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

So someone that has sex with cows, dogs, and cats or has 20 wifes(which again would be a serious social security issue in that if the husband died, how in the hell would that work, which makes it purely an economic issue to me) is illegal. A man and women, a man and a man, a women and a women can have sex LEGALLY but are somehow viewed differently by our federal government? It also used to be illegal for black people to vote, eat in restaurants, or generally do much of anything, it used to be illegal for women to vote...did that make it right since it was illegal....

[shaun4411]

So someone that has sex with cows, dogs, and cats or has 20 wifes(which again would be a serious social security issue in that if the husband died, how in the hell would that work, which makes it purely an economic issue to me) is illegal. A man and women, a man and a man, a women and a women can have sex LEGALLY but are somehow viewed differently by our federal government? It also used to be illegal for black people to vote, eat in restaurants, or generally do much of anything, it used to be illegal for women to vote...did that make it right since it was illegal....

i think it just comes down to the closed-mindedness of some people and their inability to get over the "icky" notion of two fruits or two lumberjack looking truckdriver women holding hands. hell, even the porn industry is evidence that we practically idolize lesbian sex acts. we like hot sexy women swapping spit-- just not a couple of fairies.

[yermom]

Huh? Talk about flawed.

If you wanna get really, really neanderthal about it, people marry to have kids and become a family for the continuation of our species. A polygamist has every bit as much legitimacy - and more - than a gay person does in this argument. We were put here to procreate. We weren't put here to get our rocks off on whatever feels good and have a good time.

Of course if you can do both, then God bless you.

i kinda agree with this... but what if someone is sterile, why do they need to get married? what if they don't plan on having kids? just because they happen to look normal from the outside, it's fine for them to get married?

having sex with multiple women isn't illegal, neither are two dudes going at it. now, the Aggie "animal husbands" are law breakers, so i don't really see where that comes into it.

[shaun4411]

i kinda agree with this... but what if someone is sterile, why do they need to get married? what if they don't plan on having kids? just because they happen to look normal from the outside, it's fine for them to get married?

having sex with multiple women isn't illegal, neither are two dudes going at it. now, the Aggie "animal husbands" are law breakers, so i don't really see where that comes into it.

as a corrolary, both straight (sterile possibly) and gay couples also practice adoption. and we all know how much in need we are for adoptions. there isnt evidence that an adopted child raised by two homos who are responsible and secure (emotionally, financially) enough to both marry and adopt a child grow up and turn out to be pillowbiters.

[yermom]

that guy in The Birdcage turned out ok

[olevetonahill]

flagitybump

[Chuck Bao]

Olevet, bro, what are you doing?

Dean already said that, if I keep my mouth shut, people won't give a damn about loss of rights and bigotry.

We are trying to work back to that not give a damn status.

Don't ruin it.

[olevetonahill]

Olevet, bro, what are you doing?

Dean already said that, if I keep my mouth shut, people won't give a damn about loss of rights and bigotry.

We are trying to work back to that not give a damn status.

Don't ruin it.

But I dont Give a damn . Well I do about the lose of freedoms and such
But I dont care about Bigots and such
Flag handt read this so I bumpeded it fer him . Then he goes and Passes out
:confused:

[Chuck Bao]

Okay, for Flag, and god knows we all love him. Wake up Flag and have some more of Olevet's home cooking.

[olevetonahill]

Okay, for Flag, and god knows we all love him. Wake up Flag and have some more of Olevet's home cooking.

Flag is such a drunk bastage !

[Ike]

But I also see Homey's viewpoint that you can't just pass a law stating gay marriage is legal and not expect these other shams to challenge the justice system.

I agree with this too, but if the law is written well, and there is a modicum of intelligence in the justice system, then the sham challenges will be tossed out like they should be and the gays will get to frolic and file tax returns with whomever they please. It's not like other laws haven't opened up the door to totally unforseen challenges that eventually get tossed out for being just plain dumb.

I don't buy that as a good reason not to pass the law. Any lawmaker that uses this as an excuse is basically saying that they don't want to think hard enough to ensure that this doesn't happen.

At least, thats my take on it.

[Chuck Bao]

I didn't open this can of worms again, but Olevet, bro, you got some shine to share with Ike too because he's like a man's thinking man.

Okay, if not I owe you two cases of Natty and Ike one. Ike still has to think for the rest of us, so he only gets one.