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soonerloyal
3/8/2008, 07:04 PM
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2008/03/marine_estrada_030508/



Estrada campaigns for Sen. Barack Obama

By Andrew Tilghman - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Mar 7, 2008 13:26:10 EST

Just eight months after taking off his uniform, the recently retired 15th sergeant major of the Marine Corps is jumping into the campaign fray, stumping for Sen. Barack Obama and echoing the Democratic candidate’s call for pulling troops out of Iraq.

“I stood up and I said I agree with him when he said we should pull out of Iraq. I think it’s time for the Iraqis to stand up and take charge of their own country,” retired Sgt. Maj. John Estrada said in a telephone interview Feb. 25.

“He’s not talking about snatching everybody out of there. He said he will do it over a 16-month period. He will deploy the troops to places where they’re needed, like Afghanistan. ... He’s a guy who will use force reasonably,” Estrada said.

Estrada, 52, was the highest-ranking enlisted Marine for nearly four years before retiring in June 2007 after 34 years.

He formally endorsed the Illinois senator for president of the United States during a rally at a high school gymnasium in Beaufort, S.C., on Jan. 24. Estrada served twice at Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort and is well-known among the locals there.

He planned to campaign again for the senator in Texas on the weekend preceding the critical March 4 primary between Obama and New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

“He has this — I want to call it a unifying force. I see him uniting our country more so than the others. Old, young, across all ethnicities,” Estrada said.

Estrada currently works for a defense contractor and lives near Orlando, Fla., with his two children. A native of Trinidad and Tobago, Estrada moved to Washington, D.C., when he was 14 to live with his mother, a health care worker. He joined the Corps in 1973 and later became a U.S. citizen in the 1980s.

Representatives from the Obama campaign contacted Estrada in January and asked him to attend a round-table discussion with other veterans in South Carolina shortly before the primary election there in January.

Estrada said he was impressed by Obama’s knowledge of issues such as traumatic brain injury and his apparent concern for veterans’ affairs and the Department of Veterans Affairs, which Estrada believes is woefully underfunded.

After meeting with Obama, campaign officials asked Estrada to introduce the candidate at a rally later that evening, and Estrada accepted. During the introduction, Estrada gave Obama his full endorsement.

Some scholars say Estrada is part of an alarming trend of political involvement among military leaders. Many say the trend began in 1992, when Bill Clinton — then the governor of Arkansas — rounded up a list of endorsements from retired general officers.

“This is a trend that a lot of us are not really happy with in terms of military officers getting out and throwing themselves into a campaign,” said Jim Currie, a professor of national security studies at the National Defense University in Washington, D.C.

“You don’t want an officer corps that is seen as a Democratic officer corps or a Republican officer corps.”

Peter D. Feaver, a political science professor at Duke University in North Carolina, agreed.

“It politicizes the military, even when that is not the intention of the former military person,” Feaver said. “Obama will love this until he becomes president — and then he starts to worry about the political leanings of the people serving under him in the military.”

Enlisted Marines, however, are not necessarily held to the same standard for political activity. Only commissioned officers are subject to Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which threatens a court-martial against those who use “contemptuous words” against the president or defense secretary.

“With [commissioned] officers, it’s a much bigger issue,” said Michael Noonan, a captain in the Army Reserve and a research fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia.

Estrada said he thought about all of that and nevertheless chose to speak out.

“This is the freedom we fight and die for,” Estrada said. “I know some people won’t like that I’m doing this, but I earned that right. I had people die to give me that right.”

He agrees that officers and noncommissioned officers should not talk about politics while in uniform.

“I used to tell my Marines, ‘We don’t discuss politics in work.’ I don’t think anyone knew how I felt about anything politically. I said, ‘You have a chance to express your opinion — on Election Day.‘“

Estrada said he was not a citizen and could not vote when Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980. He voted for Bill Clinton in 1992. He said he liked John McCain’s candidacy in 2000, but ultimately voted for Al Gore because McCain lost the Republican primary to President Bush.

Estrada dismissed the notion that pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq will lead to more violence and chaos.

“We’re not going to just pull out and leave them hanging. But once they see that we’re serious about leaving, they are going to wean themselves and start standing up and it will force them to come together as a nation.”

Current troop levels in Iraq are making America less safe, Estrada said.

“We are stretched so badly — our equipment is worn out, our sailors and Marines are tired, some are in their fifth and six deployment. I think that puts us in a very vulnerable position.

“Suppose a couple other incidents break out in the other parts to the world. We may have trouble responding to them and dealing with them effectively.”

Nevertheless, Estrada does not expect all U.S. troops to leave anytime soon.

“I think there will be some kind of U.S. presence there for a long time, but I don’t think it needs to be what we have going on right now.”

Some Marines have already shunned Estrada. Shortly after making his initial endorsement, he was visiting Marine Corps Base Quantico and dropped by to see a senior officer whom he used to work for and considered a friend.

The officer refused to see him.

“It was a little disappointing,” Estrada said. “I will probably lose a few friends, but they need to remember — this is why we serve our country.”



OOH-RAH, SgtMajor...

Jimminy Crimson
3/8/2008, 08:28 PM
I'd refuse to see him, too.

Whet
3/8/2008, 09:58 PM
BFD! the guy is a Dem, voted Dem, so what?

Cause he is a retired Marine, that is supposed to imply something cause he supports another Dem?

Who cares?

Jerk
3/8/2008, 10:22 PM
BFD! the guy is a Dem, voted Dem, so what?

Cause he is a retired Marine, that is supposed to imply something cause he supports another Dem?

Who cares?

Yep. I'm not sure what the point is, here. The opposite would be kind of like finding a gay man in San Francisco who supports McCain and making it into a news story. "Hey, look here, we didn't really expect this..."

Everytime a Ret. General endorses a dem, it also makes the news.

Vaevictis
3/8/2008, 10:39 PM
You hear about it because it's a counter-example to the argument "But our troops want to finish the mission."

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/8/2008, 10:42 PM
Obama is the only candidate of the 3 remaining who is for Cut & Run. I think VERY few military people, active or retired are for doing that.

Soonerus
3/8/2008, 10:47 PM
Obama is the only candidate of the 3 remaining who is for Cut & Run. I think VERY few military people, active or retired are for doing that.

agreed...

StoopTroup
3/8/2008, 11:10 PM
I know folks who are locked in to vote for McCain like to use the term cut and run but I really think Americans just don't think they are getting their money's worth when it comes to staying long term.

If McCain would even lay it out so we knew just what our goals are besides winning whatever it is we're gonna win in the next 100 years, it would be something to read at least.

I don't think we have to let Al-Queda know all our plans but beating them isn't what it takes to win.

There is going to be terrorism even if we wiped OBL and everyone of his followers off the face of the Earth.

Okla-homey
3/9/2008, 08:52 AM
This is only a story because around 95% of the officer corps in all branches of the service vote Pub and consider themselves Pub. The exception are black officers, who generally continue to vote Dem just like black civilians do. I add the caveat that the preceeding is true unless things have changed in the three year interval since I retired from the USAF.

Frankly, the so-called expert cited in the story has no idea what he's talking about when he suggested its bad if the officer corps evidences political leanings. That's BS. I used to tell my subordinates, vote for whomever you want, but please vote. However, if you vote, you should vote for the guy who you believe will be a strong advocate and supporter of the military.

That said, its kind of an unspoken article of faith (at least among officers) that its generally the elephant party who delivers. Since Vietnam, the greatest advances for the military, including the Army's procurement of the Big Five during the Reagan Administration, and the Air Force's procurement of B-1, B-2, C-17 and F-22 came under Pub presidents.

OTOH, This guy was a senior NCO and the former top enlisted Marine. It's no secret the Marine Corps position is it will obey the will of the Commander-in-Chief of course, but it would prefer to let the Army handle Iraq while the Marines handle Afghanistan.

soonerloyal
3/9/2008, 05:13 PM
Thank you, Homey sir. Fair and reasonable.

One of the reasons that the Commandant wants his Marines out of Iraq is that the Marines aren't meant to be a years-long police force in war. That they have done so well for so long is a mighty testament to Marine Corps superiority, ingenuity and resolve. But the strain is beginning to show, and the way they are being misused is an insult and dishonor to the USMC. The Corps is the first-in, tip-of-the-spear, kill-em-and-let-the-Army-stay-and-sort-it-out, short-term strike first force. They can be better utilized in the 'Ghan against al Queda.

I gotta say though that the majority of the Marines and soldiers I speak with are against our presence in Iraq, and they are mostly enlisted, the backbone of the military...and their opinions are the ones I listen to the closest, regardless of party affiliation. That said, God bless the officers and their Republican votes, yet a surprisingly high number of the "regular guys" are voting Democrat (no official numbers from my side - same for you, Homey?).

usmc-sooner
3/9/2008, 05:17 PM
Thank you, Homey sir. Fair and reasonable.

One of the reasons that the Commandant wants his Marines out of Iraq is that the Marines aren't meant to be a years-long police force in war. That they have done so well for so long is a mighty testament to Marine Corps superiority, ingenuity and resolve. But the strain is beginning to show, and the way they are being misused is an insult and dishonor to the USMC. The Corps is the first-in, tip-of-the-spear, kill-em-and-let-the-Army-stay-and-sort-it-out, short-term strike first force. They can be better utilized in the 'Ghan against al Queda.

I gotta say though that the majority of the Marines and soldiers I speak with are against our presence in Iraq, and they are mostly enlisted, the backbone of the military...and their opinions are the ones I listen to the closest, regardless of party affiliation. That said, God bless the officers and their Republican votes, yet a surprisingly high number of the "regular guys" are voting Democrat (no official numbers from my side - same for you, Homey?).

I completely disagree with 99% of what you just said. the "Ghan has been going longer than Iraq.

soonerloyal
3/9/2008, 05:48 PM
True, Sir. But the Marines aren't being used in Afghanistan as a long-term, few-breaks-given there the way they are in Iraq. That's straight from the mouths of Marines both currently deployed, and recently retrograded, from both theaters.The first paragraph especially is oft-repeated from Marines who feel that the Corps is being run into the ground, and from junior Marines who feel that they are the ones being run most ragged. Please, don't shoot the messenger LOL.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,152377,00.html

So..what's the one percent you agree with? :D

You know I love ya more'n my luggage! :O

usmc-sooner
3/9/2008, 06:06 PM
I hate to tell you but you're wrong. I'm a Marine been deployed over there and I've heard straight from their mouths, I think you've misunderstood the CoMC proposal. I take comments about how this an insult to the honor of the Corps, and the USMC is being run into the ground, or using the Corps to deliver a side of a political argument as more of a slap in the face. My junior Marines used to disagree and hate me when I had them do their menial tasks such as field days, and inspection but that is why they are junior Marines or boots as we called them.

I pray for the safe return of your sons.

Okla-homey
3/9/2008, 07:07 PM
I think there is merit in the notion the Marine Corps is wasted as a constabulary force. Heck yeah they can do it. In fact, in my experience, there isn't much a MAGTF of well-led and motivated Marines can't do...but I agree, I beleive they are best used as assault troops.

Rogue
3/9/2008, 09:00 PM
I'm pretty sure that all branches of the service are best used for their purpose...and very few of them are intended to be long term police forces.

Okla-homey
3/10/2008, 06:48 AM
I'm pretty sure that all branches of the service are best used for their purpose...and very few of them are intended to be long term police forces.

I disagree. That is a standard military mission the Army is trained and equipped for, and it has been a valid mission practically since the Army's founding. For example, the posts established in our state in the 1830's (before statehood) were built and manned in order to keep peace.

OklahomaTuba
3/10/2008, 09:48 AM
True, Sir. But the Marines aren't being used in Afghanistan as a long-term, few-breaks-given there the way they are in Iraq.
I think the differences in the situations dictate different tactics.

The tactics being used now in Iraq have shown to be beyond successful in bringing some stability to the place. Its actually rather unbelieveable what our troops have done over there. It would be sad if our men and women get the order to raise the white flag of surrender and let AQ and the Iranian terrorists to hijack the country, just as we are turning the corner.

TheHumanAlphabet
3/10/2008, 09:53 AM
Other than the guy is retired military, why would I care who he is supporting?

I doubt any of you all would care who I vote for, retired or not.


Some scholars say Estrada is part of an alarming trend of political involvement among military leaders. Many say the trend began in 1992, when Bill Clinton — then the governor of Arkansas — rounded up a list of endorsements from retired general officers.

“This is a trend that a lot of us are not really happy with in terms of military officers getting out and throwing themselves into a campaign,” said Jim Currie, a professor of national security studies at the National Defense University in Washington, D.C.

“You don’t want an officer corps that is seen as a Democratic officer corps or a Republican officer corps.”


Totally agree with this. We don't need military people just out of uniform blabbing about this and that candidate IMO. I think if politicizes the military - the one good thing about ours has been the perceived nonpartialality (if that's a word). I am not entirely comfortable with retired people running for office, but that is different, but a candidate can at least debate points. Otherwise, why I would care if General or Admiral so and so is endorsing someone measn absolutely ZERO for me.

OklahomaTuba
3/10/2008, 09:57 AM
once McCain and Obama are in a debate, and Obama has to worm around the questions about national security in an effort to not make himself look to pro-American or pro-Military (can't **** off his base after-all), the Military voting block will quickly move over to McCain.

They will just have to be reminded of Obama's total lack of any relevant experience in anything, and his radical far-left wing beliefs. Add to the mix he will be running against a REAL war hero (not the John F Kerry type of "war hero"), and Obama will be lucky to get 15-20% of the military vote IMO.