Granger Back On The Team? [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

MiccoMacey

3/5/2008, 08:50 AM

Desert,

I agree with your sentiment...people make mistakes and should be given second chances. I am a huge advocate of that stance.

But I see stealing as one of those "sins" where you don't get a second chance, at least not on a football team. In life, yes. I'm not saying we should shun him from society. But being on a football team is more of a privilege, and he's stealing causes him to forfeit that privilege (and I feel like I'm spelling privilege wrong....it just doesn't seem right the way I'm spelling it).

Although it is Coach Stoops who makes the final decision, and I will live with whatever decision he makes, I will always disagree that he needs to be here.

KantoSooner

3/5/2008, 08:55 AM

I'm pretty much there with you Macci. But I'd still make an exception for 'kids' below about 22 or so. Not a free pass, but still.

Lot's of things the rest of us simply didn't get caught at.....

CincySooner

3/5/2008, 08:58 AM

I guess I didn't realize he'd been temporarily kicked off the team.

I just figured suspending him for the bowl game was the standard punishment for a first-time offense.

RedstickSooner

3/5/2008, 09:21 AM

Dunno how I feel on this one.

In my hierarchy of wrong, violence is always at the top, "victimless crimes" at the bottom.

Stealing, somewhere in the middle.

Couple things bothered me about what Granger did. First, it was so brazen. Shoplifting is one thing -- but stealing a leather jacket? One which was, presumably, large enough to fit him? I mean, we're talking, what, 2 or 3 cows worth of leather here? It wasn't like he'd nicked a CD, or lifted a really groovy pair of socks. His theft was substantial, both in size & (I presume) dollar value. (although it's been a while, I can't remember precisely how much the jacket was supposedly worth -- and it *was* an outlet mall. Maybe he shoplifts clearance items?)

I believe in showing kids some level of forgiveness, and the fact is, even kids that get busted for beating the heck out of folks usually get a second chance. For violent assault, I tend to be on the side of "one strike, you're out". For theft, I think I'd like us to see a second chance given, but only if Stoops thinks there's reason to give one. Generally speaking, knowing Stoops and the tight ship he runs, I figure if he gives a second chance, the kid must've paid for it with some hefty doghouse time.

My biggest problem with all of this was with how stupid it was. It made us look bad, it made him look bad, and was foolhardy every single way you cut it.

If he's back, I hope it's because he's learned one hell of a lesson.

TheHumanAlphabet

3/5/2008, 10:10 AM

So anyone know what he is doing to get on the good graces again? What was the Stoops punishment?

Civicus_Sooner

3/5/2008, 10:11 AM

At least he didn't have a booster pay for it for him.

fwsooner22

3/5/2008, 10:17 AM

Stealing a jacket isn't close to the worst thing I did when I was a student in Norman. I just didn't get caught. In my opinion we need to leave it to the football people. We all know he doesn't get another chance. Let's just see how the kid does from here.

Curly Bill

3/5/2008, 10:18 AM

So anyone know what he is doing to get on the good graces again? What was the Stoops punishment?

I think Bob's gonna make him wear the stolen item every time that he does wind sprints. :D

yermom

3/5/2008, 10:18 AM

At least he didn't have a booster pay for it for him.

yeah, we obviously aren't paying him very much :D

it was really dumb, and very poorly timed, but no one really got hurt.

it's hard to tell if this was a good decision or a bad one. if he stays out of trouble and becomes an example to the rest of the team, then it's a good thing.

if he ****s it up, not so much.

hopefully he's smart enough to stay out of trouble from now on

SoonerinSouthlake

3/5/2008, 10:46 AM

One of the great things about Stoops is that he has shown a willingness to kick a kid off the team regardless of the effect on field......that being said who knows what happened behind the scenes. Granger could have come to him and showed a lot of (believable) contrition.

No doubt in my mind that if Bob didn’t think Granger had learned a lesson or received appropriate punishment, he'd be gone.

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 10:59 AM

I think shoplifting is less than stealing from an individual - for a kid/young man. The reason I say that is not to be argumentative but that it doesn't really hurt anyone and those stores have insurance for that kind of thing - were as a person would miss his coat.

I also think that depending on upbringing these kind of things can be more common or accepted in certain demographics - where these items are not as easily afforded.

This was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen- but if you are having fun and are young and more adventurist from going to the desert in PHX and having some free time on your hands can lead to a rush and want to do things that are a rush- no one got hurt and I am glad he is back on the team.

He will get a second shot but I am sure will be on a short rope - to say the least.

In virginia anything over 250$ is grand larsony and he could have gotten some chunk of jail time for stealing probably a 1K coat.. Probably at least a couple of weeks for a first time offense or up to a couple of months.

He is young- and he is let's not deny our best DL even over Mccoy last year for sure... So he would've been missed greatly and not that easily replaced at all- he has a bright future and I would hate to see it chunked up over 5 minutes of stupidity where no-one got hurt.

Let's see how he does -

In comparrison - I had some friends who played for TU in the late 90;s and they got in trouble for shooting the Pizza delivery guy with a BB gun about 10 times while he was deliverying Pizza- they almost got expelled and were scared shiateless - but they in the end didn't even get suspended -

would you guys rank this prank higher than Grangers?

Breadburner

3/5/2008, 11:02 AM

I think you have to look at the timing of it as well(the theft).....Bad move to bring him back.........

bob

3/5/2008, 11:15 AM

MojoRisen, your thought process is flawed. Stealing hurts the young man because it allows him to think he can get away with a crime. This hurts the young man most of all because this lesson will be learned some day, and maybe in a more serious way in which his life will be effected, not just his ability to play in a great football program. This may have been the best thing that could have happened to him.
Also, to say that shoplifting doesn't hurt anyone is just wrong. The store has an increase in cost from the theft of the property, and from the insurance that it has to carry because of the these type of thefts. And who has to pay for that, the customers do. Just because one specific person doesn't have a loss, doesn't mean a loss hasn't happened. Your attitude is distressing. You seem to think that business is less worth of protection from crime than individuals. Remember, businesses are owned by individuals.

Rhino

3/5/2008, 11:20 AM

Granger never left the team. He was suspended.

Seamus

3/5/2008, 11:20 AM

Here ya go.

http://papelipe.no/var/weblog/storage/images/photos/moelen/moelen_stones/525-1-eng-GB/moelen_stones_gallerylarge.jpg

Be careful if you have much glass in the house, though.

Partial Qualifier

3/5/2008, 11:20 AM

Buncha hardasses! ;)

for perspective's sake: we gave Lynn McGruder a second chance after a felony marijuana distribution charge got him kicked off someone else's team. Pretty serious deal, fans felt trepidation about the decision, etc. but Lynn got his life squared away, saved a few lives (!!) and ultimately graduated, if I'm not mistaken.

All I'm saying is: trust Bob on this. I thoroughly believe that Bob would kick him off the team for good if he thought Demarcus was a lost cause.

soonerinabilene

3/5/2008, 11:36 AM

If he takes a page out of the Dusty Dvoracek handbook for taking advantage of a second chance, then Im all for it.

If its out of the Maurice Clarett Handbook, not so much.

Vic n Tulsa

3/5/2008, 11:42 AM

I'm pretty much there with you Macci. But I'd still make an exception for 'kids' below about 22 or so. Not a free pass, but still.

Lot's of things the rest of us simply didn't get caught at.....

You are the same ding dongs who love to make fun of Book' Em Horns and Granger fits nicely in that club, but wait he's a Sooner so let's make excuses for him and not throw him under the bus.

Welcome the University of We are Hypocrites Oklahoma:texan:

BigRedJed

3/5/2008, 11:45 AM

...I think shoplifting is less than stealing from an individual - for a kid/young man. The reason I say that is not to be argumentative but that it doesn't really hurt anyone and those stores have insurance for that kind of thing - were as a person would miss his coat...

...if you are having fun and are young and more adventurist from going to the desert in PHX and having some free time on your hands can lead to a rush and want to do things that are a rush- no one got hurt and I am glad he is back on the team....
Are you kidding me? Stores don't have "insurance" against that. The "insurance" is called marking up merchandise higher to offset losses to criminals who shoplift. That's hardly a "victimless" crime. Everybody who shops in that store is a victim.

Speaking from experience, if it's a mom and pop operation (most businesses are, to some extent), it's no different than walking into my house and taking money out of my wallet.

That said, I'm not against giving him another chance, if Stoops believes in him. I trust Bob to be the best judge in this particular matter. But your attitudes towards shoplifting are pretty disturbing.

BigRedJed

3/5/2008, 11:46 AM

I keep reading "doesn't really hurt anyone" in that post and it makes my blood boil.

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 11:50 AM

Mr. Jed

It is absolutely different than taking it directly out of your wallet- that would likely be some sort of altercation . Your philosophy would not be shared by most prosecuting attorney's. So disturbing - I don't think so - if anyones was disturbing it would be yours.

I think that is why they call it shoplifting- as apposed to grand larsony or theft or aggravated Robbery - and stuff like that.

Do you agree? Most of American court systems do- and my point was that it is likely more tempting to shoplift as apposed to taking it from someone's house or actual wallet - because of the forementioned points in my previous post.

Chill out holmes- I said I did not want to be argumentative- it is more factually based on common law or President.

BigRedJed

3/5/2008, 11:54 AM

I didn't say it was the same as physically attacking me. I said it's the same as walking into my house and taking it out of my wallet. Pretend I'm in another room, or in the garage. Is it OK to walk into my house and take money out of my wallet? If you shoplift from a store owned by a small businessman, it is EXACTLY the same thing.

And you think my opinion is "disturbing" for thinking that shoplifting is not a "victimless" crime? Geez, bubba, you need to grow the hell up.

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 12:00 PM

No way is it the same as walking into your house- we dis-agree on that.

ALso this was Burlington Coat Factory - I repeat Burlington Coat factory and I would say they are going to mark up - lost items in price regardless of the amount of lost items - for accounting or tax write offs.

I see your point- but totally dis-agree with it- walking into Burlington Coat factory is far different than walking into an unsuspecting person's house and stealing from them - where that person could catch them and the danger would be highly increased - as apposed to walking them into the back room to find out why they tried to steal a coat - when they have alarm systems and camera's all over the place!

yermom

3/5/2008, 12:03 PM

it's like stealing a nickel instead of a dollar, but yeah, it's like taking it out of their wallet

and shoplifting over a certain amount is "grand larceny" isn't it?

BigRedJed

3/5/2008, 12:09 PM

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 12:09 PM

If he were in Virginia- yeah he would have been in trouble because anything over 250$ is grand larceny(Felony 6). I think most states consider shoplifting a much less crime and don't always lump it in so quickly to Grand larceny or Felony.

I wouldn't compare Burlington coat factory to a small business mans store - I just wouldn't. As Big Red said they already account for this kind of thing and I say would account for it regardless of the amount of times it actually happened.

Collier11

3/5/2008, 12:10 PM

Shoplifting is not a victim-less crime but it is a whole hell of a lot different than bashing your best friend into the hospital, about on the same level as vandalism or something similiar. If he did what Coach asked of him and was contrite then give him a second chance which Coach did. Its not like he raped a kid and was left on the team, oh wait that is in Stillwater

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 12:12 PM

Exactly- I only said no-one got hurt.

Burlington Coat Factory- this isn't even a blimp on their radar screen. I never defended it.

I actually think shooting the Pizza guy with a BB gun was worse- than this as someone could have been hurt or lost an eye.

yermom

3/5/2008, 12:18 PM

Dude, walking into my store (if I owned one) and taking something has EXACTLY THE SAME EFFECT ON ME as taking cash out of my wallet when I'm not looking. You weren't making the case that burglary was worse than shoplifting, you were saying that shoplifting is a "victimless crime." I dispute that. NOT a victimless crime in any way, shape or form. Spin it however you want.

Can you get into more trouble for breaking into someone's house than shoplifting? Absolutely. But is it more wrong? Well, I guess that depends on the person doing the judging. But you're making excuses for it and half defending it. It doesn't matter whether it's Burlington Coat Factory or Mom and Pop's Grocery or the wallet sitting on my kitchen counter. IT'S WRONG. STEALING IS WRONG.

are you talking to me? do you want to fight? :mad:

for the record i didn't say it was a victimless crime, i said no one got hurt. Burlington Coat Factory caught him, i'm assuming they recovered the jacket. they also got some publicity. heck, i hadn't thought about them in years

soonerhubs

3/5/2008, 12:20 PM

Most important point that everyone is missing:
Will he show up in shape for fall practice?

;)

BigRedJed

3/5/2008, 12:22 PM

Exactly- I only said no-one got hurt.

Burlington Coat Factory- this isn't even a blimp on their radar screen. I never defended it...
No, that's not what you said. You didn't discuss violence at all. You said:

I think shoplifting is less than stealing from an individual - for a kid/young man. The reason I say that is not to be argumentative but that it doesn't really hurt anyone and those stores have insurance for that kind of thing - were as a person would miss his coat.
Basically, you were saying there are degrees of wrong when it comes to stealing, and that stealing from a store is a "victimless crime." You even used that terminology. Do you want me to dig that up too?

All I'm disputing is that it is not a "victimless crime," and not comparing it to assualt or violent crime. And the fact that you seem to think that it's ESPECIALLY really no big deal when it's a chain store only furthers my point that you have some problems with your moral center. Do me a favor and stay away from my store, if I open one.

OK, I'm out.

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 12:28 PM

Dude- stay away from my business as well. I think punishment in Amercia fits the terminology used for the crime.

Clearly the US Department of Justice- with whom I am cleared and do business with see a diference between shoplifting and grand Larceny. They definitely see it differently than anything that could have been agravated situation.

If I am cleared by DOJ - I suspect that I came out pretty clean.
SO for that you are dismissed from the Jury -:) Peace

MI Sooner

3/5/2008, 12:35 PM

People who excuse stealing disgust me. Let's say a store has insurance, even so, it's stealing. It's wrong. Stealing always has a victim, whether it's the store owners, the insurance company, or people who have to pay higher prices or insurance premiums.

I didn't take the time to read everyone's posts in detail, so I don't know if anyone here was excusing stealing, but the tenor of the conversation seemed headed in that direction.

Collier11

3/5/2008, 12:37 PM

People who are excusing stealing here disgust me. Let's say the store had insurance, even so, it's stealing. It's wrong. Stealing always has a victim, whether it's the store owners, the insurance company, or people who have to pay higher prices or insurance premiums.

I dont think anyone is excusing stealing, there are some on here that just dont see it as that big of a deal compared to what other players and schools have gotten into

Collier11

3/5/2008, 12:39 PM

You are the same ding dongs who love to make fun of Book' Em Horns and Granger fits nicely in that club, but wait he's a Sooner so let's make excuses for him and not throw him under the bus.

Welcome the University of We are Hypocrites Oklahoma:texan:

You are being an idiot! While what Granger did is wrong he deserves a 2nd chance, what half of texas' team has been doing non-stop without consequence is a big deal because that involves drugs and it continues to go on and on and on!

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 12:42 PM

All I know is comparing it to different scenarios is something that you have to do. In IRAQ I guess he could have lost his hand or been hung. This is America and yes - defending stealing is something that is a necessity in this country for the posts on this board that - would say that entering my house and stealing is the same as shoplifting- when in reality it carries much severe punishment. I never said he should not be punished and I hope that he got what he deserved for a first defense in this kind of matter. He also didn't get away with it and I am sure the coat was sold to another 320 pound dude -

Stealing is wrong- but do not ever try and tell me there aren't diferent degree's of it- that is ludicrous.

I also hope he is IN SHAPE for SPRING PRATICE - and ESPECIALLY for FALL Practice.

BigRedJed

3/5/2008, 12:57 PM

OK, I'm back in. I'll try to type very slowly, since you seem to not be very quick on the uptake. I never, ever said that there weren't theft crimes that were more severe in nature than shoplifting. I agree, getting caught for busting into someone's house and stealing from them does, and should carry more penalty.

I used the example of coming into my house and stealing from me, only to illustrate that taking from my wallet is no different than stealing from a store I own, as far as whether or not it affects me as a store owner.

Forget about the house, since you seem to have trouble grasping very basic concepts. Imagine you come into my place of business, where I have left my wallet laying behind the counter. I run into the back room to find something for you, and while I'm back there, you spy my wallet laying there and help yourself to a couple hundy. The effect of you doing that is EXACTLY the same effect of you stealing merchandise from my store. Sorry, it is.

The part (AND THE ONLY PART) that I took issue with is you saying it was a "victimless crime." The fact that you seem to think that stealing from a store, any store, is somehow "more OK" than stealing from an individual, is frankly, disturbing.

D O Y O U U N D E R S T A N D M E N O W ?

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 01:12 PM

Al right- I said no-one got hurt. The coat was in fact returned to the store.

Slow on uptake would be your comparision to illistrate what you were in fact trying to say. And painted a far diferent picture to get your point accross so I simply objected to that- and rightfully so.

It's all good. Granger is back on the team - this looked terrible for us- especially when I was in phx and classy WVU fans did not want to even bring it up in conversation- until it did. This was a black eye and was stupid-

Stealing is way wrong- but it happens- especially with kids or younger people and a Mall is definitely diferent than a small biz- but I understand your comparision and I think you exagerate the money out of my wallet thing.

A couple hund in merchandise can be written off as a loss and sometimes have a more significant impact on your cash flow positiion which in turn would give you an opportunity to re-invest and make a better profit - so that couple of hundred may only really represent 20$ or even better your chances for a profit.

I think stealing merchandise- is not as offensive in my eyes as it would be taking money directly out of your wallet.

No one got hurt - because the store has the money to protect itself against that kind of thing - with anti theft devices and camera's. The only altercation that happened was Mr. Granger being walked to the back of the store where he fully cooperated with Security. If he had stole from my wallet and I caught him - I might have shot his arse... If security at burlington Coat factory shot Demarcus- I think they would be stting in prison right now.

If you owned a small business coat store- I doubt you would be defending giant corporate america or Burlington Coat factory

Collier11

3/5/2008, 01:32 PM

you spy my wallet laying there and help yourself to a couple hundy.

you dont have a couple hundred in your wallet liar, I saw you at the strip joint on sunday!! :D

BigRedJed

3/5/2008, 01:33 PM

Not after MojoRisen shops in my store, I don't. :D

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 01:48 PM

Hey -

write it off you couldn't sell that stuff :)

I once had a client- who's CFO hired our services and hired contractors from us that we payrolled - about 4 months in when we are asking for our invoices to be paid - he says they can't and try and stretch the payables. Then the guy basically said let's settle for 20 precent of Revenue - when meanwhile I am only making 15 % profit on this service after cost of payrol-In the end we were out 80 grand. I guess it pays to go to business school because he was in his rights to claim we are going bankrupt even though he knew he was before he hired our services - he knew going to court would cost us another 100K and even then you can not squeze blood out of a turn-up. To me this guy is a CROOK but he is walking free and doing it too another small business who can't take that hit. So I emphasize with the small biz stuff - but come on...

sooneron

3/5/2008, 02:02 PM

How is this suddenly a $1K coat!?!?! It was $75.

I doubt HIGHLY that BCF has anything close to a grand.

birddog

3/5/2008, 02:11 PM

what's with all the- in this thread?

Collier11

3/5/2008, 02:15 PM

I-am-not-sure?

Curly Bill

3/5/2008, 03:02 PM

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 03:06 PM

Come on people steal from Walmart but they still have the best prices.

Health insurance and Frivolous law suites have no place in this discussion - as far as prices being effected or insurance premiums going up - not so much for Merchandise stores.

I bet BCF probably had those coats made in Hong Kong .....

Curly Bill

3/5/2008, 03:09 PM

I bet BCF probably had those coats made in Hong Kong .....

Well then, that makes it Ok to steal them then. :rolleyes:

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 03:12 PM

No but you said it makes the Insurance Premiums go up and makes us pay higher prices.

if they are insured- I bet it is not even at one 1-500th of what it is marked up to be at the stores.

That is all I said....

Curly Bill

3/5/2008, 03:19 PM

No but you said it makes the Insurance Premiums go up and makes us pay higher prices.

Someone's paying for the insurance and you can bet the stores are passing that cost on to us that actually pay for our merchandise.

if they are insured- I bet it is not even at one 1-500th of what it is marked up to be at the stores.

So, if they're not insured the stores get to absorb all of the loss from stealing...and then pass it on to us....and if theft makes the price go up any at all then that's too damn much and to want to excuse that is insane.

That is all I said....

Still amazed that someone has defended stealing from a store.

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 03:25 PM

I hope you guys are messin with me-

A. I never said it was OK to steal from a store- I said it would have been worse if he stole from an individual. Where intimidation may have played a role.
B. I said no-one got hurt in this matter. Not the store or any individual.

C. People think because I said Shoplifting has a less severe sentence than Grand larceny or Aggrevated Theft, Robbery or Burgurly that I was defending someone for shoplifting.

You people try and make a correlation between noone got hurt and me saying this is a victimless crime. Where did I ever post that

SHoplifting is not the same as taking money out of my wallet, if you can't see the diference in that is the reason why people get excused from jury duty.

I am out- you guys can quit picking on me - and or putting words in my mouth now.

Youngsooner

3/5/2008, 03:30 PM

I heard a rapist is still on the team at OSU

MojoRisen

3/5/2008, 03:31 PM

No but Granger sure as hell is on OU ------

TexasLidig8r

3/5/2008, 03:45 PM

You are being an idiot! While what Granger did is wrong he deserves a 2nd chance, what half of texas' team has been doing non-stop without consequence is a big deal because that involves drugs and it continues to go on and on and on!

:rolleyes:

Good Lord... ok.. there are 95 athletes on scholarship on the football team. Let's see your list of 47 athletes who have done drugs without consequence and that it continues to go on and on and on... :rolleyes: Better yet, let's see ONE athlete who was caught doing drugs and had no consequences whatsoever.

As for Granger.. he wasn't too contrite in January when he failed to show for his court appearance and had a warrant issued for his arrest.

Or.. he wasn't too contrite in 2007 when he was sued FOUR TIMES by his apartment complex for failure to pay rent. (The 4th time he was sued, he didn't even bother showing up for Court in October)

You guys bashed us pretty good (and quite frankly, a lot was deservedly so) for the Texas' kids transgressions last summer. Guess the standards and moral compass is very different when it's one of your own.

Vaevictis

3/5/2008, 03:48 PM

Crimes Against Person > Crimes Against Property.

Dvoracek committed a pretty nasty crime against a person, where as Granger committed a pretty minor crime against property.

It should be no surprise that Granger is back.

Collier11

3/5/2008, 03:48 PM

:rolleyes:

Good Lord... ok.. there are 95 athletes on scholarship on the football team. Let's see your list of 47 athletes who have done drugs without consequence and that it continues to go on and on and on... :rolleyes: Better yet, let's see ONE athlete who was caught doing drugs and had no consequences whatsoever.

As for Granger.. he wasn't too contrite in January when he failed to show for his court appearance and had a warrant issued for his arrest.

Or.. he wasn't too contrite in 2007 when he was sued FOUR TIMES by his apartment complex for failure to pay rent. (The 4th time he was sued, he didn't even bother showing up for Court in October)

You guys bashed us pretty good (and quite frankly, a lot was deservedly so) for the Texas' kids transgressions last summer. Guess the standards and moral compass is very different when it's one of your own.

I have never put OU's transgressions above anyone else's, for the Arizona deal Granger screwed up, paid his dues and is being given a second chance and is taking advantage of it from what I hear. From everything I have heard the warrant issue is normal for out of state charges and was cleared up without incident, as far as the rent issue goes I have heard nothing of that.

As far as the bonghorns go, what is the count on the drug or weapons charges against the players exactly? My most sincere apologies for viewing drugs and flashing weapons as a little more serious than getting caught with a stolen jacket

def_lazer_fc

3/6/2008, 05:50 AM

has anyone ever got a "water" at a fast food place and filled it with soda instead?

that hurts every customer that goes to that fast food place. thanks.

47straight

3/6/2008, 08:47 AM

47straight

3/6/2008, 08:51 AM

As far as the bonghorns go, what is the count on the drug or weapons charges against the players exactly? My most sincere apologies for viewing drugs and flashing weapons as a little more serious than getting caught with a stolen jacket

Weapons, drugs, etc. have NOTHING on beating up the victims of the crime to try to intimidate them into not testifying. As a member of the bar, Lid will get stung most by that so use the phrase that pays:

"Bitches deserve to get kicked, so that's what I do."

Civicus_Sooner

3/6/2008, 02:15 PM

wow

MichiganSooner

3/6/2008, 03:28 PM

BigRedJed, you are so correct. And I run a store. I have for 33 years. And I was fired from one retail company because of excessive shoplifting.

Stores and retail companies, as a rule, do not purchase insurance to cover merchandise loss. It is part of the cost of doing business. We have rent, wages, benefits, supplies, etc to pay for from the difference between sales and the cost of goods. Impacting the cost of goods, in a negative way, is shrinkage, also known as missing inventory. If a merchant wants to end up with a certain level of profit, he must add to the gross profit to cover the loss of inventory, ie. he must increase prices and hope he is still competitive.

I need a profit to be able to buy my Sooner football tickets so please shop my store but do not shoplift.

I trust Demarcus has learned his lesson regarding shoplifting and the impact his stupid decision in that store had on all his teammates. Welcome back to the Sooners.

JLEW1818

3/6/2008, 05:40 PM

If it was Sam Bradford who stole the jacket, everybody would be saying "oh he needs another chance for sure, no doubt about it." Nothing against Sammy, he's my hero. JMO

stoops the eternal pimp

3/6/2008, 06:24 PM

Has anybody used the victimless crime angle yet?

Curly Bill

3/6/2008, 06:30 PM

Has anybody used the victimless crime angle yet?

:D

goingoneight

3/6/2008, 10:21 PM

You are the same ding dongs who love to make fun of Book' Em Horns and Granger fits nicely in that club, but wait he's a Sooner so let's make excuses for him and not throw him under the bus.

Welcome the University of We are Hypocrites Oklahoma:texan:

Wrong dip****...

There's a huge difference between being stupid and shoplifiting and four or five guys (on separate accounts) getting in trouble for drug dealing and armed robbery. I never read anything anbout granger holding up the store or threatening anybody. I did read however that he did something childish and wrong by trying to sneak a coat out of a department store.

He was caught, punished by law accordingly and suspended from the bowl game, sent home on a bus. Do I need to remind you what happened with Ramonce Taylor? Oh, wait... he lived it up in LA for the remainder of the holiday and played for a National Championship.

Glass houses when it comes to one of a hundred college kids on a team getting in trouble. But don't even try to tell me that armed robbery and drug-dealing week-after week-after week-after week is the same thing as one kid in an entire season getting busted for being stupid. I have faith that the courts punished him because I worked in Wal-mart through school and saw people get multiple thousands of dollars in fines, probation time, community service and all kinds of other stuff for no more than trying to sneak a pack of gum or somethign of the sort. No, I'm not defending the crime, I'm glad Granger got sent to the doghouse. Everyoen who wants to make a big consiracy theory can think about this... wouldn't it be really easy for a crooked coach to slap the kid on the wrist and pay for the coat, plus a little extra incentive to keep hush-hush so his star player could play in a BCS game? Why do you think you even heard about this situation to begin with? If we were some crooked organization with no regard for the laws, you really think it would be in the news? No... he'd still be a "model citizen" and everybody's favorite D-lineman and nobody would no any better.

Instead, some nosey reporter was snooping around practice and asked "hey-hey Coach Stoops, over here!!! Where's your starting defensive tackle at today?" If he hadn't informed the media already, in which case he'd then tell them 'dude's out for this one.'

KantoSooner

3/6/2008, 10:30 PM

GOE, GOE, GOE.
How many times must I tell you? Don't talk logic in such cases. It's like discussing philosophy with a dog. It's not going to change their minds, might annoy them and is certainly a waste of your time.

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 12:11 AM

I wouldn't compare Burlington coat factory to a small business mans store - I just wouldn't. As Big Red said they already account for this kind of thing and I say would account for it regardless of the amount of times it actually happened.

I can't believe I'm reading this.

Stealing from Burlington Coat Factory is no different than stealing from a local Mom & Pop store or stealing from an individual. Theft is theft.

What kind of man is DeMarcus Granger? To me, he is a man that will steal your possessions if you turn your back on him. I don't want a person like that on my favorite team because he doesn't embody the character we should be placing on those that represent the university.

As far as learning life's lessons, he already knew that stealing was illegal and wrong. He knew he was representing the university in Arizona. He knew he was supposed to be on his best behavior because of the effect that such misdeeds would have on the reputation of the team.

He did it anyway.

This isn't about bad judgment or stupid mistakes. This is about character. What kind of character does DeMarcus really have?

Frankly, I think Stoops' reputation as being tough on misbehavior is looking suspect. From what I can tell, absolutely nothing has happened to DeMarcus Granger as a result of this incident. I see no reason to believe anything will.

There are some players who are not quite the athlete as DeMarcus but who have never gotten into trouble and would never do what he did. I say let's give them a chance to live their dream and send DeMarcus packing.

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 12:22 AM

wouldn't it be really easy for a crooked coach to slap the kid on the wrist and pay for the coat, plus a little extra incentive to keep hush-hush so his star player could play in a BCS game?

Pretty tough to do since the police were already involved by the time the coach found out about it. Not easy at all.

I have faith that the courts punished him because I worked in Wal-mart through school and saw people get multiple thousands of dollars in fines, probation time, community service and all kinds of other stuff for no more than trying to sneak a pack of gum or somethign of the sort.

What exactly have the courts done to DeMarcus? Anything at all?

If it was Sam Bradford who stole the jacket, everybody would be saying "oh he needs another chance for sure, no doubt about it."

I certainly would not. If Sam Bradford does anything like what DeMarcus did, throw him off the team too.

Collier11

3/7/2008, 01:04 AM

I can't believe I'm reading this.

Stealing from Burlington Coat Factory is no different than stealing from a local Mom & Pop store or stealing from an individual. Theft is theft.

What kind of man is DeMarcus Granger? To me, he is a man that will steal your possessions if you turn your back on him. I don't want a person like that on my favorite team because he doesn't embody the character we should be placing on those that represent the university.

As far as learning life's lessons, he already knew that stealing was illegal and wrong. He knew he was representing the university in Arizona. He knew he was supposed to be on his best behavior because of the effect that such misdeeds would have on the reputation of the team.

He did it anyway.

This isn't about bad judgment or stupid mistakes. This is about character. What kind of character does DeMarcus really have?

Frankly, I think Stoops' reputation as being tough on misbehavior is looking suspect. From what I can tell, absolutely nothing has happened to DeMarcus Granger as a result of this incident. I see no reason to believe anything will.

There are some players who are not quite the athlete as DeMarcus but who have never gotten into trouble and would never do what he did. I say let's give them a chance to live their dream and send DeMarcus packing.

ever made a mistake and learned from it, im guessing you havent since you know everything and have never been below that threshold, it really does happen. Why did you come back anyway?

Collier11

3/7/2008, 01:07 AM

Pretty tough to do since the police were already involved by the time the coach found out about it. Not easy at all.

he is speaking in generalities...I guess you are too smart to understand that?

What exactly have the courts done to DeMarcus? Anything at all?

If im not mistaken it hasnt been resolved yet

:rolleyes:

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 01:46 AM

ever made a mistake and learned from it, im guessing you havent since you know everything

I know that stealing is wrong. I didn't have to steal something and get caught to learn that fact. Did you?

Are you saying that DeMarcus didn't know that it was a crime, but now he does?

Sure, we all make mistakes. I have deducted expenses on my taxes that I shouldn't have, but that was because I didn't fully understand the tax code. That was a mistake. Now I know better.

Now, if I do it again knowing full well that it is not right, how could that possibly be considered a mistake?

I have traveled the wrong way up a one-way street before. I didn't see the sign pointing out that the street was one-way. That was a mistake. (And could have been a very dangerous one.) If I knew that it was a one-way street and I traveled up it in the wrong direction, that would not be a mistake.

If I take out a gun and shoot someone, is that a mistake?

If I rape someone, is that a mistake?

If I steal your wallet when you're not looking, is that a mistake?

It seems to me that all three are deliberate acts of crime, not mistakes.

What exactly did DeMarcus not know before he stole the coat that he knows now? In other words, what exactly did he learn from this experience?

and have never been below that threshold, it really does happen.

Stealing doesn't "just happen." That is a lame-*** excuse if I ever heard one.

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 01:48 AM

has anyone ever got a "water" at a fast food place and filled it with soda instead?

On purpose? No. Why would I?

Collier11

3/7/2008, 02:00 AM

I know that stealing is wrong. I didn't have to steal something and get caught to learn that fact. Did you?
Ive never been arrested in my life thankyou

Are you saying that DeMarcus didn't know that it was a crime, but now he does?
Of course he knew, I never said that

Sure, we all make mistakes. I have deducted expenses on my taxes that I shouldn't have, but that was because I didn't fully understand the tax code. That was a mistake. Now I know better.
Now, if I do it again knowing full well that it is not right, how could that possibly be considered a mistake?

He only did it once, he will be punished accordingly by the justice system and coach stoops, if he screws up again kick his butt off the team. Until then he has apparently proved to everyone that matters that he wont do something stupid again

I have traveled the wrong way up a one-way street before. I didn't see the sign pointing out that the street was one-way. That was a mistake. (And could have been a very dangerous one.) If I knew that it was a one-way street and I traveled up it in the wrong direction, that would not be a mistake.

If I take out a gun and shoot someone, is that a mistake?
If I rape someone, is that a mistake?
A mistake doesnt have to be something that you dont know is wrong, and to compare those to making a selfish mistake choice and getting caught is rediculous

What exactly did DeMarcus not know before he stole the coat that he knows now? In other words, what exactly did he learn from this experience?

No one said that he didnt know what he did was wrong, No one said it wasnt deliberate. What I am saying is he screwed up, he suffered the public embarrassment of getting sent home while in the national limelight, he will likely pay fines and serve probation and community service. IF he does everything that is asked of him does he not deserve a chance to show that he can be a good person who just made a random selfish act of ignorance that wont happen again?

Just as it is ingorant to act like he did nothing wrong, it is just as ignorant to act like he doesnt deserve a chance to take a negative and turn it into a positive.

Collier11

3/7/2008, 02:01 AM

On purpose? No. Why would I?

It's obvious that you dont care, but if you ever did care why you are so disliked on here this statement says it all. Instead of accepting others opinions, acting like others CAN be right and you CAN be wrong, you choose to act all Holier Than THou with every discussion that you enter!

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 02:11 AM

So do you steal coke from restaurants by making it look like you are only filling your glass with water? Yes or no?

Would you tell kids that it is okay to do the same?

Is stealing a coke off the shelf of a store any different than pretending to get water and getting coke instead? I sure can't see any.

It's obvious that you dont care, but if you ever did care why you are so disliked on here this statement says it all. Instead of accepting others opinions, acting like others CAN be right and you CAN be wrong, you choose to act all Holier Than THou with every discussion that you enter!

If not stealing means being disliked, so be it. I don't steal. If I want a coke, I pay for it. If I want office supplies for my home, I ask for them. There is nothing in this world that I need so bad that I have to steal it.

If at any time you are afraid of getting caught taking something, maybe you shouldn't take it. Sounds like a good philosophy to live by, do you agree?

Collier11

3/7/2008, 02:23 AM

So do you steal coke from restaurants by making it look like you are only filling your glass with water? Yes or no?

Would you tell kids that it is okay to do the same?

Is stealing a coke off the shelf of a store any different than pretending to get water and getting coke instead? I sure can't see any.

If not stealing means being disliked, so be it. I don't steal. If I want a coke, I pay for it. If I want office supplies for my home, I ask for them. There is nothing in this world that I need so bad that I have to steal it.

If at any time you are afraid of getting caught taking something, maybe you shouldn't take it. Sounds like a good philosophy to live by, do you agree?

whenever you feel the need to reply to what ive said feel free. I have already stated that I thought what he did was wrong and he should suffer the consequences. For being a prof you dont read very well.

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 02:38 AM

Of course he knew, I never said that

Then what exactly is he supposed to "learn" from his "mistake" if he already knew that what he was doing was wrong?

Seems like a simple question. What's the answer?

He only did it once

Because he got caught. I don't know too many people that would disarm a security device and try to shoplift from a store, but only try it once in their lives.

he will be punished accordingly by the justice system and coach stoops, if he screws up again kick his butt off the team. Until then he has apparently proved to everyone that matters that he wont do something stupid again

It doesn't matter if the crime was stupid, that isn't the point. The real point is that it was a deliberate attempt to steal, no matter how badly bungled or ill-timed.

A mistake doesnt have to be something that you dont know is wrong, and to compare those to making a selfish mistake choice and getting caught is rediculous

Then what is NOT a mistake? Shooting someone to steal their money is a selfish act. Is that a mistake?

Can any act, no matter how selfish or hurtful, be simply cast off as a mere mistake?

No one said that he didnt know what he did was wrong, No one said it wasnt deliberate.

People in here are saying he will learn from this mistake. Okay, so what will he learn?

IF he does everything that is asked of him does he not deserve a chance to show that he can be a good person who just made a random selfish act of ignorance that wont happen again?

No, for the same reason why I won't be given a second chance by my employer if I am caught shoplifting. Why should I be? If I already know the consequences and I deliberately do it anyway, why would I expect a second chance?

Maybe giving people second chances increases the possibility of them making such "mistakes."

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 02:45 AM

I have already stated that I thought what he did was wrong and he should suffer the consequences.

Sure, as long as the consequences allow him to continue helping your favorite team win football games. :)

If Granger played for UT, we would be all over Mack Brown for "looking the other way."

goingoneight

3/7/2008, 02:52 AM

Then what exactly is he supposed to "learn" from his "mistake" if he already knew that what he was doing was wrong?

Seems like a simple question. What's the answer?

Because he got caught. I don't know too many people that would disarm a security device and try to shoplift from a store, but only try it once in their lives.

It doesn't matter if the crime was stupid, that isn't the point. The real point is that it was a deliberate attempt to steal, no matter how badly bungled or ill-timed.

Then what is NOT a mistake? Shooting someone to steal their money is a selfish act. Is that a mistake?

Can any act, no matter how selfish or hurtful, be simply cast off as a mere mistake?

People in here are saying he will learn from this mistake. Okay, so what will he learn?

No, for the same reason why I won't be given a second chance by my employer if I am caught shoplifting. Why should I be? If I already know the consequences and I deliberately do it anyway, why would I expect a second chance?

Maybe giving people second chances increases the possibility of them making such "mistakes."

It's called growing up. Nobody in here said Granger tripped and fell out of the store and a coat landed in his hands. If you haven't noticed, we bring in a lot of guys to our football program. The largest of any team in our athletic department. Among many of those young men are guys who make bad choices, later in life referred to as mistakes. If the guy does something like staying out past curfew or gets in a bar fight, misses class, or anything like that beyond now, I'm pretty sure everyone will have a different opinion. But for now, we're not all sitting here playing holier than thou. Everyone makes bad choices, don't make a fool of yourself and claim you don't. It's a fact of life.

My opinion is let the courts deal him his probation, fines and whatever bail etc. they deal him, work his *** off and keep an eagle's eye on him. Force him to grow up or get out. Don't rip up his scholly and kick him in the hind end because he made one bad choice in three years at OU. That's selfish and holding kids to too high a standard that they can't live and learn from their "mistakes" and "bad choices."

Dusty Dvoracek has made a great name for himself, and Stoops admitted upon reinstating him that when someone is willing to make strides to correct their problems and make right their wrongs, they deserve a second chance. I HIGHLY doubt Stoops just slapped him upside the back of his head and told him "go home, we'll work this out later." I'll be willing to bet just on what I've seen and read through the years that DeMarcus is being challenged to right his wrongs and pay his dues.

MojoRisen

3/7/2008, 03:48 AM

I wonder sometimes if people really have a hard time understanding another persons perspective on this board.

Oklahoma football is my favorite team - no question. I am proud they are not a bunch of panzy arse PW'd girly men - who get upset because an athelete is on scholarship and they are not. As far as I am concerned let them wear Camo gear and Bandana's but don't look like girls anymore in BCS Championship games.

As for Granger - Don't worry dude. I once cheated in strip poker with some girls and I didn't even feel bad about it. But it was most definitely cheating....

Don't do anything you would not want to read about in the paper the next morning, or have your kids read about in the paper the next morning or your mother in your case - again. and things should be just fine.

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 09:18 AM

So now criminal acts, originally labeled "mistakes," are called "bad choices." Any other euphemisms for thievery you want to throw out?

I wonder sometimes if people really have a hard time understanding another persons perspective on this board.

Yeah, I have the same question.

I'll be willing to bet just on what I've seen and read through the years that DeMarcus is being challenged to right his wrongs and pay his dues.

So what punishment has Stoops dealt out before for such behavior? What exactly have you read? Is Granger even going to miss any games?

MojoRisen

3/7/2008, 10:09 AM

Broyles was suspended all year for what he did....

Granger was sent home and has suffered a lot of public embarassment to say the least and missed the BCS bowl game that they had worked very hard for all year.

Dusty- lost a year on suspension

I think Granger's incident was less offensive than the other two mentioned-one could argue it is as bad as Broyles but Broyles seemed to be more premeditated and likely was done way more than the one time he got caught for it.

Granger was suspended from Team Activities all winter, Missed a Huge Game and was sent home for a Bowl Game in Phx... Is probably in the dog house and made to run until he pukes on a few occasions and publically humiliated to say the least.

I think it is enough for a first offense problem. I am pretty sure he is on a short rope and any other incidents will be magnified for him.

Curly Bill

3/7/2008, 10:11 AM

I think Granger also had to go to bed without dinner once. Tell me that wouldn't hurt the big fella. :D

MojoRisen

3/7/2008, 10:17 AM

:eek: I wouldn't want to be his roomate if he had to go without dinner...

Animal Mother

3/7/2008, 12:07 PM

Today's score.

The Pious 52, Pragmatists 14

Collier11

3/7/2008, 12:30 PM

Sure, as long as the consequences allow him to continue helping your favorite team win football games. :)

If Granger played for UT, we would be all over Mack Brown for "looking the other way."

Punishment should fit the crime, if he played for UT I would make fun of him but I wouldnt expect him to be kicked off the team. Now the drugheads and weapon slingers that they have, thats a different story :D

Collier11

3/7/2008, 12:32 PM

So now criminal acts, originally labeled "mistakes," are called "bad choices." Any other euphemisms for thievery you want to throw out?

Yeah, I have the same question.

So what punishment has Stoops dealt out before for such behavior? What exactly have you read? Is Granger even going to miss any games?

Stoops keeps all punishments short of being kicked off the team internal and thats the way it would be at any "job" as you were comparing it to

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 08:50 PM

Stoops keeps all punishments short of being kicked off the team internal and thats the way it would be at any "job" as you were comparing it to

Then how do you know that Stoops' punishments are so severe? I certainly haven't seen anything to tell me that Granger is suffering the consequences, especially if he misses zero playing time.

Franky, I think Stoops comes off as somewhat of a softie. Beat your friend nearly to death and you lose one year of playing time. Get busted on felony drug selling charges and you get recruited.

Well, unless you're a recruit or a freshman. Then, if you steal gasoline (instead of a coat) you get suspended.

Partial Qualifier

3/7/2008, 09:10 PM

I certainly haven't seen anything to tell me that Granger is suffering the consequences, especially if he misses zero playing time.

Seriously! Wow, Demarcus had a great game out there in PHX, didn't he? WHEW! ON FIRE!!

:rolleyes:

Beat your friend nearly to death and you lose one year of playing time. Get busted on felony drug selling charges and you get recruited.

Like it or not, welcome to powerhouse college football.

SOONERxWife73

3/7/2008, 09:21 PM

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 09:57 PM

I stole a piece of candy when I was 4. I took it back, apologized and never stole again. Thank God I didn't get 30 days in the electric chair. I didn't even lose my birthday. I learned from my "mistake". Carry on.

And if DeMarcus Granger was 4 years old you would have a point. He is a full grown man who knew better.

And Granger didn't take the coat back. That would have been at least honorable. He was caught in the act.

Other than that, the two situations are similar. :rolleyes:

How does one lose a birthday?

Seriously! Wow, Demarcus had a great game out there in PHX, didn't he? WHEW! ON FIRE!!

Oh give me a break! Demarcus was arrested by the police. Unless his coach is Mack Brown, he obviously is not going to be playing in the bowl game. Let's not give Stoops too much credit for what is obviously a no-brainer call.

Leroy Lizard

3/7/2008, 10:00 PM

Like it or not, welcome to powerhouse college football.

Well, someone is finally admitting the obvious.

Rhino

3/7/2008, 10:59 PM

Oh give me a break! Demarcus was arrested by the police. Unless his coach is Mack Brown, he obviously is not going to be playing in the bowl game. Let's not give Stoops too much credit for what is obviously a no-brainer call. So, you're saying he did or didn't miss playing time?

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 12:42 AM

Wow. That's gonna get some criticism.

I havnt read the thread yet . But I feel a few trips to Bolivia coming to an airport near the Idjits !

Curly Bill

3/8/2008, 12:44 AM

I havnt read the thread yet . But I feel a few trips to Bolivia coming to an airport near the Idjits !

You want idjits, then you truly must read this thread. :D

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 12:50 AM

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 12:52 AM

yeah, we obviously aren't paying him very much :D

it was really dumb, and very poorly timed, but no one really got hurt.

it's hard to tell if this was a good decision or a bad one. if he stays out of trouble and becomes an example to the rest of the team, then it's a good thing.

if he ****s it up, not so much.

hopefully he's smart enough to stay out of trouble from now on

DD did

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 12:59 AM

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 01:06 AM

If he takes a page out of the Dusty Dvoracek handbook for taking advantage of a second chance, then Im all for it.

If its out of the Maurice Clarett Handbook, not so much.

Do you really think Bob Goes fer Idjits ?:confused:

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 01:13 AM

Are you kidding me? Stores don't have "insurance" against that. The "insurance" is called marking up merchandise higher to offset losses to criminals who shoplift. That's hardly a "victimless" crime. Everybody who shops in that store is a victim.

Speaking from experience, if it's a mom and pop operation (most businesses are, to some extent), it's no different than walking into my house and taking money out of my wallet.

That said, I'm not against giving him another chance, if Stoops believes in him. I trust Bob to be the best judge in this particular matter. But your attitudes towards shoplifting are pretty disturbing.

So you saying you Nevar stole something ?
I have , I grew up and Rather than spend time In prison. Cause I didnt get caught .
I tried to make it up to socity By Helping the Poor and such .
Just MHO

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 01:27 AM

Dude, walking into my store (if I owned one) and taking something has EXACTLY THE SAME EFFECT ON ME as taking cash out of my wallet when I'm not looking. You weren't making the case that burglary was worse than shoplifting, you were saying that shoplifting is a "victimless crime." I dispute that. NOT a victimless crime in any way, shape or form. Spin it however you want.

Can you get into more trouble for breaking into someone's house than shoplifting? Absolutely. But is it more wrong? Well, I guess that depends on the person doing the judging. But you're making excuses for it and half defending it. It doesn't matter whether it's Burlington Coat Factory or Mom and Pop's Grocery or the wallet sitting on my kitchen counter. IT'S WRONG. STEALING IS WRONG.

Jed
Bro Chill
By your definition Stealing is wrong
I agree
I see where you are amd I see where he Is
It boils Down to Who Lost the Most !
Granger Did
In the Grand Schemm of things , If He had gotten away with the Coat what would It have Cost you and me ?
I say Maybe a .000001 of a penny
Now How Much would It have Cost OUR young Man ?
I say 1,000,000 Or more
Im Glad the Boy got caught . He will Come back to OUR team a Better Person Ala DD. And Go On and become a Productive member Of Our society
:P

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 01:35 AM

You want idjits, then you truly must read this thread. :D

I know of 2 in this thread that are Fixin to enjoy Bolivia :rolleyes:

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 01:51 AM

ever made a mistake and learned from it, im guessing you havent since you know everything and have never been below that threshold, it really does happen. Why did you come back anyway?

He wanted to get red !:D

Collier11

3/8/2008, 01:52 AM

He wanted to get red !:D

some people never learn

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 01:54 AM

On purpose? No. Why would I?

Your a Lying Piece of shat !

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 01:55 AM

some people never learn

ive put 2 to bolivia . in this thread :P

Collier11

3/8/2008, 02:09 AM

Keep it rolling!

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 02:13 AM

I stole a piece of candy when I was 4. I took it back, apologized and never stole again. Thank God I didn't get 30 days in the electric chair. I didn't even lose my birthday. I learned from my "mistake". Carry on.

My Momma sent Me to the store with a Quarter to Buy some Anicin
Ya Know the Lil tin thingy
I picked em up , walked around the Store , saw an Icecream sammich. Looked Good ,I looked around , No ones looking so I opened It up and Took a Big Ole Bite , Good Stuff Till The store manager Clamped down On the Back of My worthless Neck
I was so Skeered , I said Dude
Not really I said SIR , Im payin fer it
He says Ya damn str8 you are
I say I got Money , and show him the quarter ! Im so Uptight and Skeered .
He Marches My youngass up to the Register and Makes Me pay fer this Ice cream sammich with My Moms quarter , I get 13 cents Change
The Anicin would have cost 24 cents back then
Im halve way Home , trying to figure a BS story Mom would believe
When I finaly relax enought to Realize
Ive Had an Ice Cream sammich , 13 cents Change , and I had been so skeered that I had clinched my hand Around that Tin of anicin
Im a Happy Mo fo I gots me an Icecream . 13cent and My Mommas aspirin
I figure I came out ahead By 50 cents or so
And Ive spent My life Helping Others

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 04:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdNV9JX-Xi8

Leroy Lizard

3/8/2008, 08:46 AM

Your a Lying Piece of shat !

Would you steal a can of coke off the shelves of a grocery store? What's the difference?

Why not just pay for the coke? And if you can't pay for the coke, why not just drink water? Drinking water isn't going to hurt you.

Leroy Lizard

3/8/2008, 08:57 AM

In the Grand Schemm of things , If He had gotten away with the Coat what would It have Cost you and me ?
I say Maybe a .000001 of a penny
Now How Much would It have Cost OUR young Man ?
I say 1,000,000 Or more

How so?

He might not pay Arizona a single dime for his crime. He didn't pay for the bus fare to go back home. His draft status isn't going to be affected one iota because he isn't going to sit out a single game next year.

The citizens of Phoenix, however, will spend far more on prosecuting Granger then they will receive in retribution (if they receive anything at all). But they have to do it, because to look the other way only encourages more thievery.

It sucks that people like Granger drag the system down the way they do. If people didn't steal, customers wouldn't have to pay for the installation of anti-security devices and absorb the loss of stolen items through higher prices.

Leroy Lizard

3/8/2008, 09:10 AM

Im a Happy Mo fo I gots me an Icecream . 13cent and My Mommas aspirin

Good for you, Mr. Kornfeld! Why not become an ecstatic mo fo by stealing a set of radial tires? :D

RacerX

3/8/2008, 09:14 AM

I did read however that he did something childish and wrong by trying to sneak a coat out of a department store.

childish <> criminal

My kids don't steal. What Granger did was criminal, not childish.

I'm all for people getting a second chance, but the second chance doesn't have to be at OU.

RacerX

3/8/2008, 09:19 AM

I think Granger's incident was less offensive than the other two mentioned-one could argue it is as bad as Broyles but Broyles seemed to be more premeditated and likely was done way more than the one time he got caught for it.

Seems like an article said that Granger removed the anti-shoplifting device from the jacket. Not everybody knows how to do that, you usually have to have a tool.

Leroy Lizard

3/8/2008, 09:23 AM

But RacerX, what if Granger's bee-yatch sent him to da' Store to buy a coat, and all he had clutched in his hands was 25 dollars? You dig, bro? You knows what's I'um sayin'? Dude?

RacerX

3/8/2008, 09:24 AM

:rolleyes:

Good Lord... ok.. there are 95 athletes on scholarship on the football team.

CHEATERS!!!!

Scott D

3/8/2008, 09:57 AM

Seems like an article said that Granger removed the anti-shoplifting device from the jacket. Not everybody knows how to do that, you usually have to have a tool.

I thought an article said he got caught because he had put the coat with the anti-shoplifting device still on it in his bag.

yermom

3/8/2008, 10:31 AM

what i heard was that he took it off and then put it in the bag :confused:

Scott D

3/8/2008, 10:33 AM

I didn't say I remembered correctly. Now that I reflect, I think he took it off, but put it in the bag with the coat.

Kray

3/8/2008, 02:53 PM

The bottom line here has nothing to do with what happens in Stillwater or Austin or College Station or Miami or USC. Fans who throw issues with other schools up as a shield against what happens here are pathetic. It's the "mommy he did it too" defense and it sucks.

Forget them - focus on us.

So, is Granger a fool? Yes. Does that mean he should never be able to play again? No. He committed a stupid crime. He did something awful, but ultimately he didn't beat someone nearly into a coma. We all agree that Dusty did something far worse and got a year off for it. Granger's crime wasn't close to that, nor should his punishment be. It is a privilege to play here, and one he's abused.

But to go back to Dusty, he took the year off and got his life back together. He earned his way back. Granger should get the same chance. Even if we get a PR black eye out of it, it's the right thing to do. An expulsion isn't appropriate for the crime. It just isn't. If people can mock us over that, too bad. Doing the right thing is more important.

Scott D

3/8/2008, 02:55 PM

Pretty sure the point a lot of people missed is that at no point was Granger kicked off the team. He was sent home from the Bowl Game.

oudivesherpa

3/8/2008, 03:25 PM

And you are stupid To think that the Price Of everything we Buy dont Have
A Ready made Lose FactorBuilt in !:twinkies:

True, loss control is in Cost of goods sold. Improve your loss control and your gross margin will go up or by controlling losses you can be more competitive cut your price and sell even more units at a lower price and increase your gross margin. Bottom line, controlling losses, controls costs which generally means lower prices to the consumer.

Leroy Lizard

3/8/2008, 06:28 PM

But to go back to Dusty, he took the year off and got his life back together.

Sure, it doesn't matter what happened to the victim, only that Dusty got HIS life back together again.

snp

3/8/2008, 06:53 PM

How so?

He might not pay Arizona a single dime for his crime. He didn't pay for the bus fare to go back home. His draft status isn't going to be affected one iota because he isn't going to sit out a single game next year.

Off field issues will definitely hurt his draft status.

Collier11

3/8/2008, 06:58 PM

Sure, it doesn't matter what happened to the victim, only that Dusty got HIS life back together again.

The guy refused to press charges, recovered nicely, and forgave DD. what more can you ask, if the guy had pressed charges and had DD locked up I would have been fine with it but he forgave him. The funny thing is you dont even know the story but you are acting like DD was the only one in the wrong, by all accounts I have heard the other guy prevoked him by dumping a beer in his face. If this is wrong by all means correct me, but if some guy friend or not threw a beer in my face id probably bust his azz as well.

After that, he went and got his life in order so what more is there to say about that situation?

olevetonahill

3/8/2008, 08:57 PM

Sure, it doesn't matter what happened to the victim, only that Dusty got HIS life back together again.

Are you Really this Stupid ?
Oh wait yer a :texan:
My bad

Leroy Lizard

3/8/2008, 11:11 PM

Off field issues will definitely hurt his draft status.

Nope, not one iota. Ask Jerramy Stevens.

The guy refused to press charges, recovered nicely, and forgave DD.

First of all, you never recover from a coma.

Actually, the DD story is tough to decide on because accounts vary on what took place. I have heard that the victim was knocked unconscious by hitting the ground.

I will drop references to it.

BigRedJed

3/8/2008, 11:16 PM

Good call.

goingoneight

3/9/2008, 02:07 AM

Nope, not one iota. Ask Jerramy Stevens.

First of all, you never recover from a coma.

Actually, the DD story is tough to decide on because accounts vary on what took place. I have heard that the victim was knocked unconscious by hitting the ground.

I will drop references to it.

He was busted upside the head and on his way down busted the back of his head on the ground. DD, like any raging, 300+ pound drunk continued punching until he was pulled off of him. Is there any way that this is acceptable? No. And I suggest you read a little about DD before you go and try to play all high and mighty. The guy was kicked off the team, lost his scholarship and his family did what most embarassed familes do in that situation, they didn't just take him in and make a Mama's boy out of him. He went through rehab, worked his *** off to stay in school and make ammends with the victim's family. Since being reinstated, he became a very vocal leader, went from a raging alcoholic to a charitable guy and addresses the public all the time about the dangers of alcoholism. He became a better student, a better person and did the only thing a person can do in his situation to try to make things right. He wasn't some All-World All-American and all draft experts say that he could have easily just put his name in for the NFL draft and made it to where he is today. Read his profile, and you'll see that he took the long road to make better of himself. I can't speak for what Bomar, Rawls, Granger or any of those guys have done or will do, but DD did all he could.

guzziguy

3/9/2008, 07:16 AM

I didn't say I remembered correctly. Now that I reflect, I think he took it off, but put it in the bag with the coat.

That's how I remember it too. Should have been charged with public stupid in addition to the theft.

shaun4411

3/10/2008, 12:51 PM

Yep, there are those who think he should have been booted for good.

I'm glad he is back. Most everyone has done things, probably not as dumb as this was, that would get you in trouble had you been caught. I know I have. No doubt he is suffering the consequences besides the embarrassment he has gone through.

I say keep your head out of your azz and welcome back!

at least he and a few of his friends didnt rape the jacket. imagine if the jacket had been 12 years old and he had his way with it.

Leroy Lizard

3/10/2008, 11:15 PM

He went through rehab, worked his *** off to stay in school and make ammends with the victim's family.

You can't make amends for brain damage. The victim could have complications arise throughout the rest of his life because of what happened. Community service and public speaking engagements are not going to fix that.

Now, I have already said that the news reports about what took place are sketchy and therefore I am not sure how culpable DD is for what took place. But at some point our athletes are going to have to get the message that criminal activity on their part is not tolerated at OU. They are not getting that message.

Collier11

3/10/2008, 11:35 PM

You can't make amends for brain damage. The victim could have complications arise throughout the rest of his life because of what happened. Community service and public speaking engagements are not going to fix that.

Now, I have already said that the news reports about what took place are sketchy and therefore I am not sure how culpable DD is for what took place. But at some point our athletes are going to have to get the message that criminal activity on their part is not tolerated at OU. They are not getting that message.

and NY city mayors have got to lay off the cocaine and prostitutes, each person is different and it should reflect on OU unless they are enabling

goingoneight

3/11/2008, 12:25 AM

You can't make amends for brain damage. The victim could have complications arise throughout the rest of his life because of what happened. Community service and public speaking engagements are not going to fix that.

Now, I have already said that the news reports about what took place are sketchy and therefore I am not sure how culpable DD is for what took place. But at some point our athletes are going to have to get the message that criminal activity on their part is not tolerated at OU. They are not getting that message.

over 100 players a year... what... 3 criminal incidents the last four years? Wow, we're really out of control, aren't we? :rolleyes:

Collier11

3/11/2008, 12:27 AM

over 100 players a year... what... 3 criminal incidents the last four years? Wow, we're really out of control, aren't we? :rolleyes:

dont reason with the child, he doesnt even know what he is saying

insuranceman_22

3/11/2008, 12:34 AM

Or a an meteor could hit LL later this week......The point is that we all screw up in one way or another (ofter more than once). Understandably most of us don't beat someone in a coma though. DD screwed up bad, he knows it, we all know it. However when all the chips were down in his life..and they were, he turned into a man and did all the right things. Nobody is saying the beat down was good or alright, it was terrible, but even you have to admit it and the ramafications after it, changed his life (and a lot of people's lives that look up to him) for the better.

goingoneight

3/11/2008, 11:38 PM

Apparently not 'Burnt-orange Jesus,' there. He doesn't make bad choices, and having 3 criminal incidents over the course of four years with over 100 players a year just ain't good enough.

So, what's the difference between DD drinking and beating someone up and :eddie:'s infamous incident? What? The lady survived without a scratch? That makes it MUCH better, doesn't it. He only became the "Sportsman of the Year" less than a year later, and guess what he did... the exact same thing DD did... which is all you can do when you mess up. You take counseling/therapy/rehab, they speak to the public about the dangers of alcoholism all the time and what do you do from there? Sacrifice your life at the burning stake? Let the community stone you? Seriously.

When you're a 300 lb D-lineman, you pack a punch when you're drunk and angry.

DG didn't physically hurt anyone, but he still made a bad choice that theoretically hurts someone by stealing. I'm glad he got caught and I guaran-damn-tee you there's no "slap on his wrist" from Stoops. Anyone who's ever watched Stoops at pracitice or in a game knows he's a hardass on his players when they screw up. Quite frankly, I appreciate the disciplinarian and the humanitarian versus the coaches who hold their clipboards and stare, clap, and are all high-fives and handshakes.

Clock Studies

3/15/2008, 05:27 AM

I haven't read through this thread.

That being said... despite what TexASS fans will tell you, Bob Stoops doesn't make these types of decisions based on the physical ability of the player. And he doesn't even CONSIDER the best way to make himself look good to the local and national media. (Mack Brown :texan:)

He looks at all factors and decides what is FAIR.

Call me a homer, but that is the way I see it.

goingoneight

3/17/2008, 09:53 PM

Stoops is taking the innocent until proven guilty high road. In life, that's the way you should look at this considering he hasn't been to court and stuff yet. However, with every burning minute aggies and whorns exist, they'll spin and spin and spin some more the already ludicrous conspiracy theories that somehow Stoops could be directly responsible for what a kid in Atlanta does while he's busy coaching spring football in Norman. How could Stoops not know with all Jarboe and Granger's long history of... oh, wait... these are first-tiem offenses... guess that argument's shot, too.

Let's just say he's got a mullet and lives in a trailer... that'll get him!!!