A question for the Nuclear Physicists on the board....

[StoopTroup]

If all goes well in May...will our lights dim?

Should we back up our systems with batteries just in case?

I was watching TV this morning and they did a show on the Large Hadron Collider. It got me to thinking..."When will this thing go LIVE?".

Anyway...just a few random thoughts my pea generated this morning....

http://a1.vox.com/6a00c2251c28f3f21900cdf7e74979094f-500pi

[Shneeg11]

I'm not a Nuclear Physicist, but I want one of those

[Ike]

you won't even notice that it's turned on.

If you happen to live in Geneva, your lights may dim, but I doubt it.

It's supposed to go 'live' in a few months. Most likely it will be this fall or later before they are in a period of stable running. There are always problems getting a machine that complex to behave like it's supposed to.

[Jerk]

I hope they have Gordon Freeman there once the zombie-alien creatures start appearing.

[Ike]

I hope they have Gordon Freeman there once the zombie-alien creatures start appearing.


I think they've got him on retainer for just such cases...

[Sooner_Havok]

you won't even notice that it's turned on.


I don't know, I think I might notice mini black holes rampaging through stuff:D

[Ike]

I don't know, I think I might notice mini black holes rampaging through stuff:D


Nah, if that happens, you'll kick it so fast you won't even notice...so my original statement still stands. :D

[Sooner_Havok]

Nah, if that happens, you'll kick it so fast you won't even notice...so my original statement still stands. :D
Wonder why this thing was built in France?:texan:

[VeeJay]

There's a while lot of parts in that thing that were made in China.

Some future president is gonna pay for that.

[Sooner_Havok]

There's a while lot of parts in that thing that were made in China.

Some future president is gonna pay for that.

There's a whole lot of parts for just about everything you use made in China.:mad:

[VeeJay]

Well, living in South Florida - let me tell you about this-

My city had to repair an underground sewer line in 2003 - that was located beneath the sidewalk in my front yard. They repaired the line and left it roped off for three....four...weeks. In week six, I called and asked what the hold up was in fixing the sidewalk. I was told by a city engineer that all of South Florida's concrete mix came from China, and the last ship had sank in rough waters, and it would be three to four weeks until another ship could get here and get distributed.

Finally, about two months later, the sidewalk was fixed. :(

[OCUDad]

Wonder why this thing was built in France?:texan:French sub-atomic particles surrender more quickly.

[Sooner_Havok]

French sub-atomic particles surrender more quickly.

Close. Any civilization ending particles created would only destroy the French, and frankly, that was seen as an acceptable risk:D

[Curly Bill]

Did you see the advertisement for the WW II era French military rifles?

It said: French military rifles, WW II era, never fired, dropped only once.

[OCUDad]

Close. Any civilization ending particles created would only destroy the French, and frankly, that was seen as an acceptable risk:DI'm more interested in why the Swiss chose to move Geneva to France. ;)

[Sooner_Havok]

I'm more interested in why the Swiss chose to move Geneva to France. ;)

Well, it isn't in Geneva, it is in Meyrin, which I thought was on the French side or the border, but I was wrong.:(

[OCUDad]

Well, it isn't in Geneva, it is in Meyrin, which I thought was on the French side or the border, but I was wrong.:(Actually, I believe it straddles the border between Switzerland and France. So you're half-right.

By the way, be very careful when you Google information about the LHC. I inadvertently transposed two letters in "Hadron.":eek:

[Sooner_Havok]

Actually, I believe it straddles the border between Switzerland and France. So you're half-right.

By the way, be very careful when you Google information about the LHC. I inadvertently transposed two letters in "Hadron.":eek:

Heh, grouse:D

[Ike]

Well, it isn't in Geneva, it is in Meyrin, which I thought was on the French side or the border, but I was wrong.:(

We 'Merican scientists consider it to be in france, because it's cheaper to live on that side of the border. So those of us that go up there typically stay in france.


Interstingly, one of my friends was up there for a couple of months, staying in a chateau in france with a couple of other guys. Well, one of the guys had some problem with his papers for a couple weeks. So for a couple of weeks, they had an illegal alien in the house. And to get to the building they were working in, they had to cross the border every single day.

None of the border guards cared.

They only cared that they weren't smuggling groceries across.

[Sooner_Havok]

They only cared that they weren't smuggling groceries across.

Vous êtes un étranger illégal, je ne vous inquiétez pas. Une orange, les saisissent !

[OCUDad]

Vous êtes un étranger illégal; je capitule.Fixed.

[Sooner_Havok]

Fixed.

:D

[Killerbees]

Well I am not a nuclear physicist but there are plenty of them out there that are questioning the wisdom of turning this thing on. The gist of what I have heard/read about it is

1. The scientists involved in this at first believed that forming a black hole at these energy levels was not possible and now they have been proven wrong and in fact they are now expecting to make a mini black hole every second or so. No need to worry though, they say, hawking radiation (which hasnt been proven) will cause them to deteriorate before they can do any damage.

2. There is apparently a small chance of making strangelets (sp?) which could cause all the matter on our planet to spontaneously undergo fusion.

I dunno, I guess we will find out sometime in May, but I get a picture of Dark Helmet and President Skroob watching Mega-Maid and chanting "Suck, Suck, Suck, Suck!"

[OU4LIFE]

I hope they have Gordon Freeman there once the zombie-alien creatures start appearing.


http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff67/OU4LIFE_2007/Hadron.jpg

somebody better call Gordon.

[Jerk]

1. The scientists involved in this at first believed that forming a black hole at these energy levels was not possible and now they have been proven wrong and in fact they are now expecting to make a mini black hole every second or so. No need to worry though, they say, hawking radiation (which hasnt been proven) will cause them to deteriorate before they can do any damage.

2. There is apparently a small chance of making strangelets (sp?) which could cause all the matter on our planet to spontaneously undergo fusion.


Neither one of which would be good, right?


;)

[OU4LIFE]

RESPEK the G-MAN dammit.

;)

[BigRedJed]

"Uh... ...we're PRETTY sure nothing bad is going to happen. I mean. theoretically, we MIGHT instantaneously destroy the entire planet, or set off a process that would result in its eventual destruction. But we think it's just a really small possibility. Besides, we really want to do this, 'cause it's important to our research."

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif

[Miko]

But we can't build on the back 40 because it gets wet and we might disturb some ducks?!?!?!

[crawfish]

I hope they have Gordon Freeman there once the zombie-alien creatures start appearing.

http://www.geek4ums.com/geekstirbackup/hc.jpg

[OUDoc]

"Uh... ...we're PRETTY sure nothing bad is going to happen. I mean. theoretically, we MIGHT instantaneously destroy the entire planet, or set off a process that would result in its eventual destruction. But we think it's just a really small possibility. Besides, we really want to do this, 'cause it's important to our research."

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif
If you were the guy who destroyed the world, you'd probably get lots of chicks.

[crawfish]

If you were the guy who destroyed the world, you'd probably get lots of chicks.

You could get at least one hot redhead, unless there's a studly Maori guy left. :)

The Quiet Earth (http://imdb.com/title/tt0089869/)

[Mixer!]

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff67/OU4LIFE_2007/Hadron.jpg


That was one of my favorite Alan Parsons Project LP's. ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALC7kt6iUHY

[OU4LIFE]

DAMMIT! It's the G-Man...right there...second story on the left....just out of your field of vision....

gah

[Beef]

http://a1.vox.com/6a00c2251c28f3f21900cdf7e74979094f-500pi
Hotdog in a hallway?

[OUDoc]

http://a1.vox.com/6a00c2251c28f3f21900cdf7e74979094f-500pi
Hotdog in a hallway?
Did I ever tell you guys about the first time I had sex?

[mikeelikee]

It shouldn't be a problem, as long as you have the most current version of the atomic disgronificator available to neutralize the particulate matter. :D

[OCUDad]

Did I ever tell you guys about the first time I had sex?:les: No. You did not. And we're going to keep it that way, aren't we?

[Ike]

Well I am not a nuclear physicist but there are plenty of them out there that are questioning the wisdom of turning this thing on. The gist of what I have heard/read about it is

1. The scientists involved in this at first believed that forming a black hole at these energy levels was not possible and now they have been proven wrong and in fact they are now expecting to make a mini black hole every second or so. No need to worry though, they say, hawking radiation (which hasnt been proven) will cause them to deteriorate before they can do any damage.

2. There is apparently a small chance of making strangelets (sp?) which could cause all the matter on our planet to spontaneously undergo fusion.

I dunno, I guess we will find out sometime in May, but I get a picture of Dark Helmet and President Skroob watching Mega-Maid and chanting "Suck, Suck, Suck, Suck!"

Good thing for you I am a nuclear physicist. (and to top it off, I stayed at a holiday inn express last night!) The people predicting doom and gloom are most generally considered to be kooks by the rest of physics...yes, there are kooks with PhDs too.

As I understand mini-black holes (and it's not my area of specialty), they require the existence of Hawking radiation to be created in the first place. So requiring Hawking radiation to destroy them isn't such a big jump.

Besides, they'll have such a small mass and schwarzchild radius that it will be rather difficult (i.e. nearly impossible) for them to swallow anything up as it is even if they could live forever.

Strangelets that kill us all are another bat**** crazy idea that won't ever come to fruition either.


Bottom line: we get pelted a crapload of times every day by cosmic rays that are way more energetic than the LHC. If the LHC is going to destroy the earth, cosmic rays would have done it a long time ago.

<edit> n.m. Some of you won't get the joke and spoil it for the rest of us.

[BigRedJed]

Alright. I'll take your word for it. But if the whole world blows up, I'm gonna be ****ed.

[Jerk]

But if the whole world blows up, I'm gonna be ****ed.

Fkn a right, and you should be. If it happens I plan on suing the bast*rds, myself.

[Oldnslo]

Okay. So crossing the streams is bad.

[Jerk]

BREAKING: mini-black hole created in Switerzand, swallows all of Europe. Women and minorities hardest hit.

[Sooner_Havok]

Hasn't Hawking come out now and said he was wrong, and that black holes don't exist? I used to like the guy, till I actually started reading more physics materials. He is nothing more than a pop physicists. Most real, credible physicists don't even rank him in the top 50 of working physicists now.

[12]

Physicist smack.

Heh.

[OUDoc]

Besides, they'll have such a small mass and schwarzchild radius that it will be rather difficult (i.e. nearly impossible) for them to swallow anything up as it is even if they could live forever.



http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/jethromeyer/spaceballs.jpg

[Ike]

Hasn't Hawking come out now and said he was wrong, and that black holes don't exist? I used to like the guy, till I actually started reading more physics materials. He is nothing more than a pop physicists. Most real, credible physicists don't even rank him in the top 50 of working physicists now.

He certainly hasn't said that black holes don't exist. They are observed all the time, so to do so would make him even more wrong.

However, he, as any other theorist, is wrong about 99% of the time. Thats kind of the whole game of being a theorist. Being wrong.

Even the theories that are 'right' in physics are only right up to a point. Theres some point at which we don't know if the theory still holds or if it will do something funny.

Some theories we absolutely know will break when we look at processes that were once impossible for us to observe (like at the LHC)...we just don't know how the theory is going to break, but most people are pretty certain that the standard model will break in some way at the LHC.

[OCUDad]

BREAKING: mini-black hole created in Switerzand, swallows all of Europe. Women and minorities hardest hit.ADDENDUM: Fortunately, truck drivers have been spared. Nothing - not even a black hole - has a greater gravitational mass than the *** of a truck driver. :D

[12]

Ok, how much of us pretty much suck compared to Ike?

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

*raises hand*

[Shneeg11]

Ike, are you pretty excited about what the LHC could provide in terms of research? I'm not in any sort of field involving physics as I am still a student, but I'm pretty stoked to see what happens. Do any of the tests involve Anti-matter? lol, I just read Angels and Demons by Dan Brown (good book) He talks about the CERN LHC and how they developed anti matter through tests (yes, I know the book is fiction)

[Curly Bill]

Ok, how much of us pretty much suck compared to Ike?

As a General he was pretty good, but as President he was mediocre at best. ;)

[GottaHavePride]

most people are pretty certain that the standard model will break in some way at the LHC.

Eddies. In the space-time continuum.

Ah. Is he. Is he.

[OCUDad]

Ok, how much of us pretty much suck compared to Ike?Well, see, you've got him in his comfort zone of expertise. If this thread were, say, about personal hygiene, physicists would be pretty much useless. :P

[Ike]

Ike, are you pretty excited about what the LHC could provide in terms of research? I'm not in any sort of field involving physics as I am still a student, but I'm pretty stoked to see what happens. Do any of the tests involve Anti-matter? lol, I just read Angels and Demons by Dan Brown (good book) He talks about the CERN LHC and how they developed anti matter through tests (yes, I know the book is fiction)

a)I'm pretty stoked. The thing I'm spending all my time looking for right now is going to be so prevalent at the LHC that it's considered a major source of background for some analysis at the LHC. It's a pretty rare process at the Tevatron.

b)everything in particle physics involves anti-matter to some extent.
One of the things I worked on before my current job was to probe some of the differences between matter and antimatter (other than just the charges). There are some interesting questions there. Like why is the universe pretty much all matter and no antimatter?

c) Dan Brown is crap. OK, maybe not really...at least the books are fun to read, but the physics are not-quite-as-bad-as-armageddon-bad, but still bad. You don't have to worry about an antimatter bomb. To collect that much antimatter it would take several thousand (maybe it was several million...I forget) years at current technical capabilities...Not to mention several trillions of dollars.

[Frozen Sooner]

Eddies. In the space-time continuum.

Ah. Is he. Is he.

And he has my couch, does he?

[Ike]

Well, see, you've got him in his comfort zone of expertise. If this thread were, say, about personal hygiene, physicists would be pretty much useless. :P


This is true. Due to the crazy *** cold we've had up here for the last month, I look a bit more Grizzly-Adamsish than I normally would...I may have even gone so long without shaving that it's entirely possible I've forgotten how...

[OUinFLA]

a)I'm pretty stoked. The thing I'm spending all my time looking for right now is going to be so prevalent at the LHC that it's considered a major source of background for some analysis at the LHC. It's a pretty rare process at the Tevatron.

b)everything in particle physics involves anti-matter to some extent.
One of the things I worked on before my current job was to probe some of the differences between matter and antimatter (other than just the charges). There are some interesting questions there. Like why is the universe pretty much all matter and no antimatter?

c) Dan Brown is crap. OK, maybe not really...at least the books are fun to read, but the physics are not-quite-as-bad-as-armageddon-bad, but still bad. You don't have to worry about an antimatter bomb. To collect that much antimatter it would take several thousand (maybe it was several million...I forget) years at current technical capabilities...Not to mention several trillions of dollars.

no problem, elect a democrat.

[Frozen Sooner]

You sure you want a Democrat in office to build an expensive and impractical weapon system that can never be used? ;)

[Mongo]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/jethromeyer/spaceballs.jpg

Doc better be rolling in spek from this.:D

[Sooner_Havok]

He certainly hasn't said that black holes don't exist. They are observed all the time, so to do so would make him even more wrong.

However, he, as any other theorist, is wrong about 99% of the time. Thats kind of the whole game of being a theorist. Being wrong.

Even the theories that are 'right' in physics are only right up to a point. Theres some point at which we don't know if the theory still holds or if it will do something funny.

Some theories we absolutely know will break when we look at processes that were once impossible for us to observe (like at the LHC)...we just don't know how the theory is going to break, but most people are pretty certain that the standard model will break in some way at the LHC.

Ok, I just re-read some of his stuff (Brief History of time tenth anniversary edition) and he isn't saying black-holes don't exist, he is refuting the singularity being a mini big bag for another universe. He has conceded that information swallowed by the black hole doesn't go to some other universe and leave ours forever, but instead is transmitted back into our universe in a different forms (x-rays, gamma rays, Hawking Radiation and such.)

"The way the information gets out seems to be that a true event horizon never forms, just an apparent horizon"

BTW, you know anything about Euclidean quantum gravity:confused: :confused:

[Ike]

BTW, you know anything about Euclidean quantum gravity:confused: :confused:


ummm...not really. I deal with measurements. QG, while interesting, isn't really on my radar of things to look for.

[Sooner_Havok]

ummm...not really. I deal with measurements. QG, while interesting, isn't really on my radar of things to look for.

Yeah, it just thought I would ask. GUT and QG is pretty interesting though. I figured you would be a better bet than the people coming to check out stuff at Bizzell. I would ask them about pseudo Riemannian manifolds and Riemannian manifolds and metric tensors and they would look at me like WTF???

Kind of fun though, "Here is your laptop, by the way, could you help me and my friend here better understand Euclidean quantum gravity?":D

[OUinFLA]

Obviously, we need a SF: Geek Forum
with a minimum IQ requirement for access.


I'd just be stuck in SO where there is no minimum.

[OU4LIFE]

heh. Ike said 'probe'

[Killerbees]

Good thing for you I am a nuclear physicist. (and to top it off, I stayed at a holiday inn express last night!) The people predicting doom and gloom are most generally considered to be kooks by the rest of physics...yes, there are kooks with PhDs too.

As I understand mini-black holes (and it's not my area of specialty), they require the existence of Hawking radiation to be created in the first place. So requiring Hawking radiation to destroy them isn't such a big jump.

Besides, they'll have such a small mass and schwarzchild radius that it will be rather difficult (i.e. nearly impossible) for them to swallow anything up as it is even if they could live forever.

Strangelets that kill us all are another bat**** crazy idea that won't ever come to fruition either.


Bottom line: we get pelted a crapload of times every day by cosmic rays that are way more energetic than the LHC. If the LHC is going to destroy the earth, cosmic rays would have done it a long time ago.

<edit> n.m. Some of you won't get the joke and spoil it for the rest of us.

eh..well like I said, I'm no nuclear physicist. I only know that there are some on both sides of this who have some impressive qualifications and while I am not a doom and gloom kind of guy, it got my attention that most of them seem to agree that there is a small chance of something bad happening.

A sooner nuclear geek must be worth like 1000 of those regular ones so I will just forget about this then and continue stockpiling weapons and ammo for the numerous other SHTF events in play.;)

I was never really interested in this field of endeavor. I got the feeling after reading about it that theories are changing so fast that its almost impossible to keep track of, unless it happens to be your full time job. Maybe thats the wrong impression.

[StoopTroup]

I'm just glad that money is being spend for a good cause.