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View Full Version : Is Najera and B. Price the only significant NBA players we've produced in 20 years?



jkjsooner
2/29/2008, 10:00 AM
Is Najera and B. Price the only significant NBA players we've produced in 20 years? Please tell me I'm wrong. That just seems pathetic.

Jeff Webster - had a tiny career
Ryan Minor - nope
Hollis Price?


Even the outstanding team of '90 didn't produce anyone. Jackie Jones? Smokey McCovery? Damon Patterson?

Considering we produced Waymond Tisdale, Darryl Kennedy, Anthony Bowie, Stacey King, Harvey Grant, Mookie Blaylock, Rickey Grace in the '80s....

cheezyq
2/29/2008, 10:44 AM
I think Price is doing nicely in a European league, and Ebi Ere has had some nice games in Australia. :)

Readyfor8
2/29/2008, 12:47 PM
Yea, but it's not the same as football. Consider the fact that OU hasn't produced one superstar level talent in football in the 10 years prior to Bob Stoops and Basketball doesn't seem that bad.

LittleWingSooner
2/29/2008, 02:51 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/draft.cgi?college=oklahoma
Anthony Bowie and Jeff Webster.

We really haven't had a lot of guys do anything in the NBA. Daryll Kennedy, Tim McCalister never played in the NBA. Neither did Grace really.

LittleWingSooner
2/29/2008, 03:50 PM
Yea, but it's not the same as football. Consider the fact that OU hasn't produced one superstar level talent in football in the 10 years prior to Bob Stoops and Basketball doesn't seem that bad.

That's true also for about a 10 year period it seemed like the NBA was obsessed with either foreign players or high school players being drafted. That probably hurt all college players getting a shot at the NBA.

King Crimson
3/1/2008, 11:32 AM
Choo was on the Celtics roster for a year at least. the story you hear is that Corey Brewer was gonna make the Heat's roster the year of the lockout and that Riley was a big fan of CB's....but, never happened.

Ricky Grace has had a great career in Australia. he's really famous over there. Skeeter has apparently had a really nice international career as well and still playing as of a year or two ago.

jkjsooner
3/1/2008, 03:23 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/draft.cgi?college=oklahoma
Anthony Bowie and Jeff Webster.

We really haven't had a lot of guys do anything in the NBA. Daryll Kennedy, Tim McCalister never played in the NBA. Neither did Grace really.

I mentioned Webster and Bowie doesn't count considering he graduated from OU in '86.

I did forget that Blaylock and King graduated in '89 so technically they were in the last 20 years. Still, pretty pathetic for 19 years....

LittleWingSooner
3/1/2008, 03:34 PM
But a huge factor is that a lot of college kids in general weren't looked at from the mid 90s to the early 2000s. NBA was obsessed with HS/Foreign players.

Frozen Sooner
3/1/2008, 04:23 PM
Moreso than the foreign and high-school players being the problem was that the league shortened the draft to two rounds in the early 90s.

Heh, **** you Lawrence "I should be a point guard" MacKenzie. Go get arrested trying to get into a club. Nice charge.

the_ouskull
3/1/2008, 11:30 PM
The title should read "Are," not "Is." (Sorry.)

As for the question that it asks... I don't think that producing NBA players should be the goal of any college basketball program; just like producing NFL talent shouldn't be the goal of any college football program. If they do, sure, it's a bonus and it's something that you can throw out there during recruiting... but a good coach with great assistants, hard-working college-level talent, and a good system can still win, and win consistently, even at the top-levels of D1 competition.

Players that are NFL-material, or, in the case of basketball, NBA-material can sometimes be so to the detriment of the team. Blake Griffin, thankfully, is as altruistic as he is talented. But for every Blake, we've had a Ryan Humphrey, or a half-a-dozen Drew Lavenders. (Mackenzie, that kid who had like, three good games on an amazingly depleted team, and then thought that he WAS OU basketball... what was his... Foust, Brandon Foust. (Doesn't have the same ring as Bond, James Bond, but he was just as covert; skipping out on classes in the Spring as soon as basketball season ended. Sad. Didn't shock me to hear that he got into legal trouble when he got back home either...)

...also, has anybody noticed that all of these, "OU basketball is keeping me from my full potential" guys, with the brief exception of Humphrey, are Euro-leaguers at best? Most of them aren't even that. It cracks me up every time I see a short, selfish shooting guard that can't handle the basketball and won't pass it talk about leaving because they're wanting to be a point guard; (Mackenzie) or a 2 guard that handles the ball really, really well, but wouldn't pass it if it were on fire because he's trying to get his numbers to look better for the NBA teams that "he's heard are watching him," regardless of what it does to the team. (Everett - maybe the biggest waste of potential I've ever seen, mainly because it didn't involve his own. We had Taj Gray and Kevin Bookout at the 4 and 5 and you couldn't find a way to share the f'ing ball? Really? Nice work, Terrell.

Anyway, I'm not bagging on this thread, or its author, at all. I just feel like a player's NBA potential gets discussed a little too often; especially by Sooner fans. As was pointed out earlier, with the exception of Najera, Kelvin's team here at OU never had anybody make the NBA, but they still won a lot of basketball games. Would it be great to have that Carmelo Anthony-type player here? Sure it would. But, I think it would be better for the on-the-court reasons. I also think that too many (Sooner) fans care about it for the off-the-court reasons. (ie - Being able to say, we've got so-and-so, or such-and-such in the NBA; usually to a rival team's fan.)

Example: Sooner fans trying to make Longar into an NBA-caliber player. Yes, he's improved, a little, from his first three years... but not nearly as much as he should have, given the caliber of player he was battling in practice, and the quality of coaching he was receiving. And if you're one of those people who just can't admit that Kelvin Sampson was a good coach, go blindfold yourself and play in traffic.

(See, this is where some tool would make a joke like, "except that you're already blindfolded for thinking that," but I'm not that guy. I'm good with leaving it at the go play in traffic, because, frankly, if you are naive enough to think something like that, like Kelvin wasn't a good coach, then chances are pretty good that somebody making an intelligent argument to refute your claim is just going to be rebuffed with something along the witty lines of "he couldn't coach offense," or "yeah, but he's a cheater," one of which is an outright falsehood, and the other one has nothing to do with his ability to win a basketball game. This is why I don't really like to argue with the blindingly ignorant. My intelligent, factual arguments go over the heads of the ignorant when I use fancy words like, "statistics," and "logic." Sigh.

But, since nobody asked, I think that a top-5 list of NBA-caliber talent at OU since Billy Tubbs left, would look a little something like this...

(And, for this, let's just assume that we're not including people that actually made the league...)

1. Blake Griffin
2. Ryan Minor
3. Taj Gray (having the potential isn't the same thing as developing the potential)
4. Corey Brewer
5. Ebi Ere (see also, #3)

Players who missed the cut, but deserve mention include: Jbobmarley Brown, Nolan Johnson, Hootie Wiley, Bobby Joe Evans, and Longar Longar.

I no longer even remember what this post was originally about, so I guess now's as good a time as any to bail.

the_ouskull

Things are looking good under Coach C.

Statalyzer
3/3/2008, 06:36 PM
I'm still surprised Hollis Price didn't make it in the NBA. He won Big XII POY award over TJ Ford, one of the best passers and clutch players in college basketball in recent memory, and TJ despite his similarly small size made it in the NBA. I thought there'd be a team out there needing a back up PG who would have found a good role for Hollis.

SleestakSooner
3/4/2008, 05:44 PM
I'm still surprised Hollis Price didn't make it in the NBA. He won Big XII POY award over TJ Ford, one of the best passers and clutch players in college basketball in recent memory, and TJ despite his similarly small size made it in the NBA. I thought there'd be a team out there needing a back up PG who would have found a good role for Hollis.

Hollis didn't have that fresh-from-the-hood look that the NBA loves so much. TJ had it down pat. :pop:

GoState
3/4/2008, 07:30 PM
Whatever happened to Aaron McGee? That guy was a load his senior year. Another solid player I don't see mentioned is Nate Erdman. Did either of them come close to making it to the NBA?

Big Red Ron
3/4/2008, 09:15 PM
I'm still surprised Hollis Price didn't make it in the NBA. He won Big XII POY award over TJ Ford, one of the best passers and clutch players in college basketball in recent memory, and TJ despite his similarly small size made it in the NBA. I thought there'd be a team out there needing a back up PG who would have found a good role for Hollis.He may still make it. He's made the change to PG in Europe and has earned all kinds of accolades and MVP type awards.

Coming out of college, he was a way undersized two guard. Now he's a smallish PG. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on a roster someday.

the_ouskull
3/5/2008, 12:46 AM
"Ace" had a few tryouts that I heard about. Nate didn't get any looks, I don't believe. He was a great college player, but I guess his athleticism and outside shooting were holding him back a bit.

BRR: You can YouTube some videos of Hollis overseas. He's big time over there, man.

the_ouskull

stoops the eternal pimp
3/5/2008, 12:54 AM
I thought Nate was drafted by Utah

stoops the eternal pimp
3/5/2008, 01:01 AM
Sorry skull, I forgot the . in my previous post.

SleestakSooner
3/5/2008, 01:55 AM
Sorry skull, I forgot the . in my previous post.

Oh snap! STEP with the punctuation smack :hot: :D

birddog
3/5/2008, 09:46 AM
nate's been playing overseas for years. he's done pretty well for himself.

NormanPride
3/5/2008, 12:08 PM
I still think L2 can be a serviceable backup in the NBA. He's sound enough on D, has enough moves on O, and hustles well for a guy his size. He's not going to set the world on fire, but he's too athletic to not get a few looks, IMO. But I know **** about basketball talent, really. :D

cheezyq
3/5/2008, 02:58 PM
I could see Longar as a long-term project-type player in the NBA, like he has been here. I don't know much about his history prior to OU, but watching him it seems like he's only been playing basketball for a few years. He has trouble with a lot of the basics, like keeping his pivot foot down when trying to make a post move, and holding onto the ball in any kind of traffic.

But he's much, MUCH better than I would have guessed. At least now he's functional in the post and has learned how to get a good shot on offense. He's a decent rebounder and can even hit a face up jumper once in a while. He fouls too often, but that doesn't matter in the pros. ;)

the_ouskull
3/10/2008, 11:39 PM
I still think L2 can be a serviceable backup in the NBA. He's sound enough on D, has enough moves on O, and hustles well for a guy his size. He's not going to set the world on fire, but he's too athletic to not get a few looks, IMO. But I know **** about basketball talent, really. :D

He fouls way too often, even against mid-to-decent level college posts. In the pros, he would be slaughtered by everybody except the Jeff Foster's and Francisco Elson's of the world. On offense, he has almost no "moves," and he's very deliberate and predictable with the ball in his hands, and can't play well at all offensively without it, sans the occasional offensive rebound. Also, his rebounding ability stems from the height and / or strength advantage that he has over a lot of college-level comp. Advantages which he would not enjoy at the next level. And, finally, his basketball IQ, the saving grace of "tweener"-type players, is almost non-existent. He has only marginally improved in his five years on campus. (I've done a detailed breakdown of his alleged "vast" improvement from year to year, and it's pretty much 100% attributable to his increase in minutes...)

Also, a lot seems to be made of his "athleticism," but "athletes" aren't still awkward with the ball in their hands after five years of college ball. "Athletes" don't struggle to dunk the ball with two-hands in traffic. Dwight Howard is an athlete. L2 is tall and has long arms. I think that, because of the seamless transition from one defensive-minded offensive liability who only marginally improved throughout his career (Jabarhi Brown) to another (L2), a lot of casual Sooner fans just naturally assume that Longar is that athletic as well. He isn't.

I'm glad he's a Sooner, but I'm not going to be terribly broken-hearted wondering how we're going to replace him next season either. I think that, with this team, we need him as an anchor of sorts... some kind of consistency, even if it's not always good... but when we recruit over him with someone similar who (hopefully) takes better care of the ball, even if they're a worse player than Longar, we'll see a lot of improvement on the offensive end of the floor if they're not a turnover machine. Our offense slows down and becomes predictable when we try to run it through Longar. He needs to be an isolation or garbage offensive player, quit reaching on defense 'cause he's out of position, and quit jumping on his blocks.

If he does all of that, and plays out of his MIND from now until the end of a Sweet 16 / Elite 8 type season, then MAYBE he'd have a shot at being a late second-round pick. But, 1) we don't have the guard play to get that far (yes, Austin Johnson, I AM talking to you... 2) Longar doesn't have the ability to maintain that level of play for more than a game or two in a row, especially against upper-echelon competition, and 3) Blake needs to be the guy we're running the offense through. It's better than leaving it in Longar or AJ's hands...

I think we can be a Sweet 16 type team... but we can also be a one-and-done team. It will all come down to whether or not Aj, Godbold, and Longar accept their roles on this team as Blake, Taylor, and Crocker's supporting cast. If AJ isn't shooting from 10 feet behind the 3 point line 5 second into a possession, Godbold isn't driving into traffic with his weak hand, lofting a jumper in front of the defense, and then not getting back himself, and Longar isn't wearing a lampshade around his head when he gets the ball in the low post... then we have a shot, as long as Blake stays healthy and Crocker doesn't get cold. Sweet 16. No further. I think we'll win one and lose one though. (I may change this after seeing who we draw, too...)

God, I want to be wrong.

the_ouskull

jkjsooner
3/12/2008, 08:20 PM
The title should read "Are," not "Is." (Sorry.)



You got me. I originally only had Najera and then I remembered B. Price. I forgot to go back and change the "is" to "are."

I make that mistake all the time when making edits.

okienole3
3/13/2008, 04:20 PM
You got me. I originally only had Najera and then I remembered B. Price. I forgot to go back and change the "is" to "are."

I make that mistake all the time when making edits.


Know what you are going to say before you post. :cool:

tru2ou
3/13/2008, 06:22 PM
Harvey Grant and Stacey King spent time in the league. I think Stacey has at least two rings with the Bulls.

- Stay Tru

Soonerus
3/13/2008, 06:56 PM
Harvey Grant and Stacey King spent time in the league. I think Stacey has at least two rings with the Bulls.

- Stay Tru

and Mookie....