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SoonerKnight
2/25/2008, 01:58 AM
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

WOW!!! Some strong statements! This is the church that he belongs to. WOW!!!

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:00 AM
So he's not a Muslim today? I can't keep track.

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 02:00 AM
Yeah, and JFK wanted to turn the US into a papal state :rolleyes:

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:01 AM
Yeah, and JFK wanted to turn the US into a papal state :rolleyes:

Don't forget that President Bush is supposedly strongly committed to bringing about Armageddon as a foreign policy goal.

SoonerKnight
2/25/2008, 02:06 AM
Yeah, and JFK wanted to turn the US into a papal state :rolleyes:

"A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA."


I don't think JFK ever supported a non-negotiable support for the Pope! As a matter of fact most american Catholics do not always follow rome but just the mere idea of a non-negotiable commitment to africa is in their manifesto is crazy as well as the last three words are in bold! I am a Dem but I won't vote for him now or ever! Based more on he does not have experience and he is WAY too LIBERAL!!!

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 02:07 AM
"A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA."


I don't think JFK ever supported a non-negotiable support for the Pope! As a matter of fact most american Catholics do not always follow rome but just the mere idea of a non-negotiable commitment to africa is in their manifesto is crazy as well as the last three words are in bold! I am a Dem but I won't vote for him now or ever! Based more on he does not have experience and he is WAY too LIBERAL!!!

Yeah, but we are supposed to follow whatever Rome says, if we don't.....



hell

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:08 AM
Exactly what do you think a non-negotiable commitment to Africa means? I don't find anything particularly sinister about sending missionaries and aid to impoverished nations.

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 02:10 AM
Exactly what do you think a non-negotiable commitment to Africa means? I don't find anything particularly sinister about sending missionaries and aid to impoverished nations.

Exactly, now no meat on Fridays, that is evil!

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:12 AM
Exactly, now no meat on Fridays, that is evil!

Man, sometimes I go into a restaurant on Friday and want soup but not clam chowder. That really sucks.

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 02:13 AM
Man, sometimes I go into a restaurant on Friday and want soup but not clam chowder. That really sucks.

I bet Long John Silver's has something t do with this :D

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:14 AM
Crap. It must have been Reagan and his uncompromising commitment to Early Bird Specials.

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 02:17 AM
Crap. It must have been Reagan and his uncompromising commitment to Early Bird Specials.

heh :D (http://itsreagan.ytmnd.com/)

Vaevictis
2/25/2008, 02:18 AM
I'm having thread deja vu.

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 02:19 AM
I'm having thread deja vu.

That is just a glitch in the SF matrix

SoonerKnight
2/25/2008, 02:19 AM
Exactly what do you think a non-negotiable commitment to Africa means? I don't find anything particularly sinister about sending missionaries and aid to impoverished nations.


Not real sure what it means. All know is that a canidate for POTUS or the POTUS should not have any A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT to any other country than the U.S.

Want to help Africa fine heck Bush has really high ratings in Africa. He has given a lot of money there (suprisingly) but he does not have a belief in a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA. Why would anyone belong to a church that is so race centric anyway? Is that really a christian value? Seems racist to me. I mean get a church full of white guys and say they are whites centric and they would call them Nazis and the KKK.

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:20 AM
heh :D (http://itsreagan.ytmnd.com/)

Gah!

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:21 AM
Not real sure what it means. All know is that a canidate for POTUS or the POTUS should not have any A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT to any other country than the U.S.

Want to help Africa fine heck Bush has really high ratings in Africa. He has given a lot of money there (suprisingly) but he does not have a belief in a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA. Why would anyone belong to a church that is so race centric anyway? Is that really a christian value? Seems racist to me. I mean get a church full of white guys and say they are whites centric and they would call them Nazis and the KKK.

So, what would you call someone who attends a Russian Orthodox church?

Here, read the opinion of someone who actually makes a career out of studying religion and whether he thinks this church is racist:

http://marty-center.uchicago.edu/sightings/archive_2007/0402.shtml

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 02:23 AM
So, what would you call someone who attends a Russian Orthodox church?

A commie?

What I win?

Vaevictis
2/25/2008, 02:23 AM
So, what would you call someone who attends a Russian Orthodox church?

A heretic.

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 02:24 AM
A heretic.

You are so wrong:cool:

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:25 AM
A commie?

What I win?

Heh. Actually, very likely a Native Alaskan. ;)

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:27 AM
Knight, I don't mean to belittle your concerns. I suggest you take some time to research what the message of the church is and what a commitment to Africa means. I think you'll probably find that it's nowhere near as sinister as you think it is. Yes, at first blush, it does look somewhat confrontational.

SoonerKnight
2/25/2008, 02:27 AM
So, what would you call someone who attends a Russian Orthodox church?

Here, read the opinion of someone who actually makes a career out of studying religion and whether he thinks this church is racist:

http://marty-center.uchicago.edu/sightings/archive_2007/0402.shtml

Well never seen a Russian Orthodox Church! In fact I'm not sure that that is the same since Russians are actually made up of different races therefore the church it self is for Russians not just a cert race or Russians! A church that plainly goes along the lines of one specific race worries me. In fact I have met people that were African but they were white. I have nothing against a church helping the poor but there are poor all over the world so isn't the Christian thing to do to help all of the poor. Or just the poor from a country you identify with? Hope I made som cents! :D

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:29 AM
Knight, again, I highly suggest you do more than a cursory reading. I think you'll find the church much less sinister than you think it is.

SoonerKnight
2/25/2008, 02:35 AM
Knight, again, I highly suggest you do more than a cursory reading. I think you'll find the church much less sinister than you think it is.


Actually, I wrote my response before I saw your post before last. My dilemma is that I like what Obama says but have no reason to believe that he can deliver. I also wonder why he doesn't wear a U.S. flag pin. among other things. I was suprised at what I read on the churches website and there was nothing more to that website than what I posted regarding the churches beliefs.

I consider myself a patriotic person. I am a Democrat that believes that all Americans should be covered by health insurance. This should be a right. Not a privaledge of those like me that get insurence because i have a decent job. I'll complete my thought in a second.

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 02:48 AM
He doesn't wear a flag pin because he thinks it's an empty gesture-pandering, basically. Patriotism is in your heart, not on your lapel.

I have reservations about whether Obama can deliver on his platform as well-but I sure know that I'd rather back someone who's striving for what I believe in and might fail than someone who's striving for what I don't believe in and will certainly succeed.

This time around, it's likely that we'll get two people running who I don't find particularly odoriferous. I'm going to vote for Obama, but should McCain win, I don't think it's the end of the world or even a particularly bad deal. Unfortunately, McCain isn't on board with my big issue (which it seems is your big issue as well,) so if we get him it'll be another four years or more before we get action on it.

SoonerKnight
2/25/2008, 02:55 AM
He doesn't wear a flag pin because he thinks it's an empty gesture-pandering, basically. Patriotism is in your heart, not on your lapel.

I have reservations about whether Obama can deliver on his platform as well-but I sure know that I'd rather back someone who's striving for what I believe in and might fail than someone who's striving for what I don't believe in and will certainly succeed.

This time around, it's likely that we'll get two people running who I don't find particularly odoriferous. I'm going to vote for Obama, but should McCain win, I don't think it's the end of the world or even a particularly bad deal. Unfortunately, McCain isn't on board with my big issue (which it seems is your big issue as well,) so if we get him it'll be another four years or more before we get action on it.


Okay, we probably agree on many issues. I also found something else on that site I don't like the idea of.


The fortunate who are among us combine forces with the less fortunate to become agents of change for God who is not pleased with America’s economic mal-distribution!http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm

Explain to me what that means please......

OUbones
2/25/2008, 03:22 AM
I'm having thread deja vu.

This he was talking about this.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106541&highlight=obama

SoonerKnight
2/25/2008, 03:30 AM
http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm
This he was talking about this.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106541&highlight=obama
Okay there was thread about his church that I did not know about. But I still have questions about Obama that I would like to have answered by his supporters because I am stuck in my decision on who to vote for. First the thought of McCain as POTUS makes me want to vomit and Obama's religion and political history brings serious doubts for me. So I go back to this question:

The fortunate who are among us combine forces with the less fortunate to become agents of change for God who is not pleased with America’s economic mal-distribution!

WTF does this mean?

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 04:04 AM
Without reading too much into it, I'd assume that it means that they take it as a tenet of faith that the widening gap between the rich and poor isn't something that God would be happy about. That seems fairly consistent with Christian teachings, though I don't know that that strong of phraseology is wise. It is a church that caters to a lower-income demographic, though.

Sooner_Havok
2/25/2008, 04:46 AM
Look, in all seriousness (and serious is hard for me) you probably need to look into it if it is a sticking point for you. I am sure that deep down it is nothing sinister or nefarious. JFK was a Catholic, but he didn't try to force Catholicism down the throats of the Americans. I have a good feeling that Obama can keep his religious views and his political views separate.

Like Froze said, neither Obama or McCain are horrible choices, and I think either could get some good done. If you weigh the facts and think that Obama is not for you, then vote for McCain. Don't let Digg or RLIC convince you one is right and one is wrong, or that they are both wrong. This time around it really looks like we have two guys who would make acceptable POTUS.

Octavian
2/25/2008, 05:12 AM
The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.

• Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology.

• I use the word “systematized” because Black liberation theology was in existence long before Dr. Cone’s book. It originates in the days of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was systematized and published by theologians, Old Testament scholars, New Testament scholars, ethicists, church historians, and historians of religion such as Dr. James Cone, Dr. Cain Hope Felder, Dr. Gayraud Wilmore, Dr. Jacqueline Grant, Dr. Kelley Brown Douglas, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Katie Cannon, Dr. Dwight Hopkins, Dr. Linda Thomas, and Dr. Randall Bailey.

• These scholars, who write in various disciplines, also include seminary presidents like Dr. John Kinney and professors of Hebrew Bible, like Dr. Jerome Ross. Black liberation theology defines Africans and African Americans as subjects – not the objects which colonizers and oppressors have consistently defined “others” as.

• We [African Americans] were always seen as objects. When we started defining ourselves, it scared those who try to control others by naming them and defining them for them; Oppressors do not like “others” defining themselves.

• To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

• There is more than one center from which to view the world. In the words of Dr. Janice Hale, “Difference does not mean deficience.” It is from this vantage point that Black liberation theology speaks.

• Systematized Black liberation theology is 40 years old. Scholars of African and African American religious history show that Black liberation theology, however, has been in existence for 400 years. It is found in the songs, the sermons, the testimonies and the oral literature of Africans throughout the Diaspora.


http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm



nothin' wins American Presidential elections like religious calls to Black Power...


works every time

Scott D
2/25/2008, 07:56 AM
Well never seen a Russian Orthodox Church! In fact I'm not sure that that is the same since Russians are actually made up of different races therefore the church it self is for Russians not just a cert race or Russians! A church that plainly goes along the lines of one specific race worries me. In fact I have met people that were African but they were white. I have nothing against a church helping the poor but there are poor all over the world so isn't the Christian thing to do to help all of the poor. Or just the poor from a country you identify with? Hope I made som cents! :D

within a 5 mile radius of my house there is a Greek Orthodox Church, an Armenian Orthodox Church, a Macedonian Orthodox Church, and Chaldean Orthodox Church (Christian Arabs) to go along with a Presbyterian Church, Catholic Church, Baptist Church, and Episcopal Church.

I'd hardly consider any of them to be racist in general.

Scott D
2/25/2008, 07:57 AM
http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm



nothin' wins American Presidential elections like religious calls to Black Power...


works every time

Lawdy lawdy, why didn't massa Wallace or massa Thurmond's presidential campaigns evah win suh? :cool:

Sooner_Bob
2/25/2008, 08:11 AM
Whoa . . . here we go again.

:pop:

crawfish
2/25/2008, 08:18 AM
Gotta agree with Bob.

:pop:

Widescreen
2/25/2008, 09:05 AM
within a 5 mile radius of my house there is a Greek Orthodox Church, an Armenian Orthodox Church, a Macedonian Orthodox Church, and Chaldean Orthodox Church (Christian Arabs) to go along with a Presbyterian Church, Catholic Church, Baptist Church, and Episcopal Church.

I'd hardly consider any of them to be racist in general.
Are their websites exclusively white-centric and committed to europe (assuming they are exclusively white congregations)? I understand "traditionally black churches" but I don't really get the radical nature of this church's focus and that speaks to how Obama thinks.

I looked at their pastor's retirement celebration bulletin and they have at least one speaker on there who I recognized that is VERY radical (although I'd give him a pass since he appeared in the Matrix movies :D). While it's a leap to assume Obama agrees with everything all of these speakers say, you can infer that he agrees with the website's major point which seems to be all about Africa and African Americans. There's not much on their site about Jesus which seems odd for a supposedly Christian church.

In any case, if Obama gets the nomination, all of these things will probably be discussed publicly ad-nauseum.

Sooner_Bob
2/25/2008, 09:19 AM
Too bad David Palmer isn't running this year.

Widescreen
2/25/2008, 10:03 AM
Too bad David Palmer isn't running this year.
Who?

bri
2/25/2008, 02:10 PM
Exactly what do you think a non-negotiable commitment to Africa means? I don't find anything particularly sinister about sending missionaries and aid to impoverished nations.

LOTTIE MOON WAS A PINKO LIBERAL BABY-KILLER!!! :D

Sooner_Bob
2/25/2008, 02:17 PM
Who?


Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Palmer_(24_character))

Widescreen
2/25/2008, 03:53 PM
Ah yes. President Palmer. I only started watching 24 last season.

TheHumanAlphabet
2/25/2008, 05:13 PM
I'll attempt a thread jack...

Family members sparing over Clinton v. Obama fight and stab each other... (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0225081ortiz1.html)

BigRedJed
2/25/2008, 05:14 PM
I'll attempt a thread jack...

Family members sparing over Clinton v. Obama fight and stab each other... (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0225081ortiz1.html)
Heh. That sounds familiar...

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 05:18 PM
Trust a Clinton supporter to bring a knife to a gun fight.

mdklatt
2/25/2008, 05:44 PM
WOW!!! Some strong statements! This is the church that he belongs to. WOW!!!

Can we just go ahead and make this a stabby and forego nine months of merging?

JohnnyMack
2/25/2008, 05:49 PM
Can we just go ahead and make this a stabby and forego nine months of merging?

We should get a whole list of stabbies for the totp.

Sticky: Obama is a terrorist
Sticky: Obama is going to send all of our money to Africa
Sticky: Obama doesn't have an American flag pin
Sticky: Obama doesn't put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem
Sticky: Obama kicks puppies
Sticky: Obama has a wide stance

SoonerKnight
2/25/2008, 09:07 PM
Obama likes to say we are one America not black not white not hispanic not liberal not conservative but one America! But his church seems to believe other wise. Also, I do not pay attention to right wingers and what they have to say I just like to know more about who I am voting for. I also am suspicious of any politician that continually pumps sunshine up people's dark side without specifics.
If Obama becomes president he will have to go through some very powerful people to do anything and I do not think he can get it done. I also do not think McCain will be that good of a choice and I really am not that big of a fan of Hillary!
So I really am just trying to figure out who to vote for and support. Being a life long Democrat I want to support the parties nominee but I am also conservative in nature on many issues and do not want a Jimmy Carter in there that gets steam rolled by congress.

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2008, 09:34 PM
Knight, seriously, you think that simply because his church "seems" to be exclusionary (though it's already been shown that it isn't through the personal experiences of people who have actually been there) that Barack Obama necessarily believes the same? Contrary to everything he's ever written or said on the subject?

That's like saying that every Catholic believes everything the Pope says, or that every Episcopalian believes that gays should be ordained, or whatever.

Rogue
2/25/2008, 09:48 PM
I don't get why religion is such a huge issue for candidates when our country was, in part, founded on freedom of religion and religious choices. If BHO was indeed a Muslim (or a Buddhist, Atheist, Baptist, or Hindu), who cares? It is not one of my requirements that the person I vote for (or eat lunch with or watch football with) is of any particular faith group.