I just finished a research paper on Oklahoma Uninsured Motorist law...

[Okla-homey]

25 flippin' pages, including endnotes. Wacky stuff, but I think I understand it now.

I must admit, there's something to be said about that old chestnut that in order to really get your head around a subject, you must write about it. In so doing, and by explaining the subject matter in your own words, you are forced to really reflect on it, ponder the possibilities, and consider the unknowns.

It still succs, but I highly recommend it as an effective way to learn something.

I will now take your questions.;)

That is all.

[StoopTroup]

If your in a wreck...

What does it do for me?

[Okla-homey]

If your in a wreck...

What does it do for me?

it depends.

[garland sooner]

it depends.

haha. After you wrote 25 pages, you summed it up into two words.

Gold.:D

[olevetonahill]

haha. After you wrote 25 pages, you summed it up into two words.

Gold.:D
There we Go
I wanta Hire Garland !
:D

[olevetonahill]

it depends.
Wait a Minute
If Your In a wreck
Stoop aint Got No Liabiaty
Dayum Wreck Yo Fault Not My Clients
Stoops
So Pay Up and we wont ASue Yo *** to Boliviav:D

[olevetonahill]

If your in a wreck...

What does it do for me?
Now
Hush stoop Cause Ya done Hired me to Get some Bucks here !:D :D :D

[olevetonahill]

it depends.
Allready admited Liability
So what and How Much are you willn to settle fer !
Me an My Client Stoops
may considre a beer or 2
But I will have to Talk to him
;) :cool:

[Frozen Sooner]

Does Oklahoma combine UIM and UM coverage?

Can bad faith be asserted by the policyholder against their UIM/UM carrier?

Can insurers subrogate for the full value of the loss then reimburse their policyholder for deductible and losses in excess of policy maximum, or is their subrogation limited to the amount of claim paid?

[olevetonahill]

Does Oklahoma combine UIM and UM coverage?

Can bad faith be asserted by the policyholder against their UIM/UM carrier?

Can insurers subrogate for the full value of the loss then reimburse their policyholder for deductible and losses in excess of policy maximum, or is their subrogation limited to the amount of claim paid?
Dont Be gettin all Technical and stuff
Stoops and I jusr wanta settle this Outta Court !:D

[Mixer!]

I'd still like to know HOW these UM's get to have DL's.












(yes, I'm still resentful of the little sh*t who ran my mother into that telephone poll) :mad:

[Frozen Sooner]

I'd still like to know HOW these UM's get to have DL's.












(yes, I'm still resentful of the little sh*t who ran my mother into that telephone poll) :mad:

Heh. You think people complain about having to carry proof of financial responsibility now, think about how much they'll complain if they have to show proof before they receive a license.

Of course, you can't buy liability coverage if you don't have a license (though that's easily changed, I guess-the insurers would figure a way to get you covered provisionally until you receive the license or something.)

Edit: Even then, of course, people drop their coverage all the time or get dropped for non-payment. So even that's not a perfect solution. Having witnessed first-hand how bad insurers are at getting proper information to lien holders, you'd wind up with a lot of people driving on revoked licenses without even knowing it.

[olevetonahill]

I'd still like to know HOW these UM's get to have DL's.












(yes, I'm still resentful of the little sh*t who ran my mother into that telephone poll) :mad:
If It was My client we will settle For a case Of Natty !

[yermom]

Heh. You think people complain about having to carry proof of financial responsibility now, think about how much they'll complain if they have to show proof before they receive a license.

Of course, you can't buy liability coverage if you don't have a license (though that's easily changed, I guess-the insurers would figure a way to get you covered provisionally until you receive the license or something.)

Edit: Even then, of course, people drop their coverage all the time or get dropped for non-payment. So even that's not a perfect solution. Having witnessed first-hand how bad insurers are at getting proper information to lien holders, you'd wind up with a lot of people driving on revoked licenses without even knowing it.

how does that work for people that have a license but no car?

[Mixer!]

I think having insurance should be tied to having a DL. If having the latter is a "privilege", then the former should be part of the responsibility.

[Okla-homey]

see below.


Does Oklahoma combine UIM and UM coverage? yes

Can bad faith be asserted by the policyholder against their UIM/UM carrier? yes, in fact, over just the last twenty years, Okie insureds have obtained over $30,000,000 in punitive damages on UM bad faith claims alone.

Can insurers subrogate for the full value of the loss then reimburse their policyholder for deductible and losses in excess of policy maximum, or is their subrogation limited to the amount of claim paid?Here in Okrahoma, generally as long as they pay their insured, they are cleared hot to go after the tortfeasor to recover whatever their insured might have. In the UIM context, if a settlement with the tortfeasor's liaibility carrier appears imminent, the UM insured must notice his carrier of that amount and include documentation of his injuries (med bills and records, etc.). The UM carrier can then opt either to "substitute" pay for the third-party liability carrier, then exercise its ensuing right of subrogation to recover what they paid. Or, pay nothing and after 60 days waive its right of subrogation. Methinks that was set-up to put some money in the hands of the UM insured quicker and with less fuss. In either case, the UM carrier is still on the hook for the difference of what their insured recovers from the tortfeasors liability carrier and the total value of the claim.

[Okla-homey]

I'd still like to know HOW these UM's get to have DL's.












(yes, I'm still resentful of the little sh*t who ran my mother into that telephone poll) :mad:

Pssst. No proof of insurance is required to get a DL. Just to get a tag. Oh, and even if there were, all a guy would have to do is drop it the same day he got his license.

[Mixer!]

Pssst. No proof of insurance is required to get a DL. Just to get a tag. Oh, and even if there were, all a guy would have to do is drop it the same day he got his license.
That's my point: make it law where if you have a DL, you MUST have insurance. Drop the insurance, forfeit your license.

[BigRedJed]

I don't have car insurance. Or a car. I drive a company vehicle. Would my license be suspended under that scenario?

I do have coverage on my scooter, but if I didn't own it, I would not have carried insurance on a personal vehicle in years.

[StoopTroup]

I got hit by some uninsured aliens, it wasn't my fault, they got the ticket and I ended up paying my insurance company a $500 deductible to get the $3300 in damages repaired.

The only thing I can think is that my rates didn't go up.

My insurance company would send me a note about how hard they were working to try and collect the claim for restitution for the both of us. It's been almost 2 years now and I dropped my insurance carrier and sold the truck.

It just didn't seem to matter that I got hit by an uninsured motorist who didn't own the car and yet the driver's uncle wasn't at fault for loaning out his uninsured vehicle to his nephew.

I'll never think that the laws or the fees we pay for insurance are worth much other than protecting the loan companies.

[Mixer!]

I don't have car insurance. Or a car. I drive a company vehicle. Would my license be suspended under that scenario?

No, because in that instance it's your employer's car, and presumably his insurance that's covering you (like taxi drivers and chauffeurs).

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't have car insurance. Or a car. I drive a company vehicle. Would my license be suspended under that scenario?

I do have coverage on my scooter, but if I didn't own it, I would not have carried insurance on a personal vehicle in years.

Yes. Do you ever drive a rental car? Is it possible that you would borrow a friend's car?

[jk the sooner fan]

if you want a DL in the state of texas, you'll have to have proof of insurance first

[BigRedJed]

So I could still then own my own vehicle and not carry insurance on it? I mean, couldn't I prove to the DPS that I had insurance through my employer, and then drive around in a hooptie without insurance, since I had retained my license?

What if I lose my job and company vehicle, and then need to go out and search for employment? I'm guessing I would buy or rent a car for that activity. Won't that be difficult once I've forfeited my license, as required by law?

Or, let me ask you this... ...what if I ride the bus to work, or ride with a neighbor, don't own any vehicle OR drive a company car? Should I then have to forfeit my license? Not a huge problem, until I go on vacation and try to rent a car, or borrow a friend/family member's car for a few days.

What I'm getting at is that your strategy pretty much requires that someone own a car to be licensed. I don't think that's a good solution. I think we need to closely tie insurance to having a tagged vehicle, rather than to having a driver's license. Probably more closely than we do.

I would have no problem with a situation where the DPS gets notification if your insurance lapses, and where if you have a wreck without insurance the state HAMMERS YOUR ***. But I seriously don't believe you could realistically tie it to driving privileges. Until someone is caught driving without insurance, that is.

[BigRedJed]

if you want a DL in the state of texas, you'll have to have proof of insurance first
How does that work, JK? I was typing my response to Mixer! when you posted that, and now I'm curious how Texas handles situations like I described.

[Frozen Sooner]

So I could still then own my own vehicle and not carry insurance on it? I mean, couldn't I prove to the DPS that I had insurance through my employer, and then drive around in a hooptie without insurance, since I had retained my license?

What if I lose my job and company vehicle, and then need to go out and search for employment? I'm guessing I would buy or rent a car for that activity. Won't that be difficult once I've forfeited my license, as required by law?

Or, let me ask you this... ...what if I ride the bus to work, or ride with a neighbor, don't own any vehicle OR drive a company car? Should I then have to forfeit my license? Not a huge problem, until I go on vacation and try to rent a car, or borrow a friend/family member's car for a few days.

What I'm getting at is that your strategy pretty much requires that someone own a car to be licensed. I don't think that's a good solution. I think we need to closely tie insurance to having a tagged vehicle, rather than to having a driver's license. Probably more closely than we do.

I would have no problem with a situation where the DPS gets notification if your insurance lapses, and where if you have a wreck without insurance the state HAMMERS YOUR ***. But I seriously don't believe you could realistically tie it to driving privileges. Until someone is caught driving without insurance, that is.

See, that's the point-that insurance would no longer follow the vehicle but the driver. You have insurance for any action that you take while operating a motor vehicle.

[Mixer!]

Thanks, Froze - that's exactly what I'm getting at.

[BigRedJed]

Does that mean that if I get a job driving a bus, or a semi, or another vehicle that requires much higher liability than say, a scooter, that my PERSONAL premium skyrockets? 'Cause that would suck.

And, does it mean that if I rode the bus and only drove a car a couple of times a year that I would pay the same for vehicle insurance as someone who drives 40,000 miles a year? Seems like I would if it were tied to the driver rather than the vehicle. Doesn't seem fair.

[StoopTroup]

I just want an insurance plan where everyone in America can be covered. :D

http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/vindu/wp-content/photos/Hillary_Clinton_2008.JPG

[Frozen Sooner]

Does that mean that if I get a job driving a bus, or a semi, or another vehicle that requires much higher liability than say, a scooter, that my PERSONAL premium skyrockets? 'Cause that would suck.

And, does it mean that if I rode the bus and only drove a car a couple of times a year that I would pay the same for vehicle insurance as someone who drives 40,000 miles a year? Seems like I would if it were tied to the driver rather than the vehicle. Doesn't seem fair.

1. Not necessarily. The carrier's insurance would cover them as named insured for anything you did while driving their vehicle-they wouldn't really care what you carried :D. Actually, it's pretty accepted practice that any commercial liability insurance policy covers employees on company business as a named insured. So no, your personal insurance wouldn't go up in that situation.

2. Your insurance rates now are partially based on how many miles you drive a year. I can't think of any reason that would change.

[BigRedJed]

OK, you've convinced me. Go get that changed, and get back with me.

[47straight]

25 pages? Nice abstract. When will the main article be coming out? :)

[Okla-homey]

I got hit by some uninsured aliens, it wasn't my fault, they got the ticket and I ended up paying my insurance company a $500 deductible to get the $3300 in damages repaired.

The only thing I can think is that my rates didn't go up.

My insurance company would send me a note about how hard they were working to try and collect the claim for restitution for the both of us. It's been almost 2 years now and I dropped my insurance carrier and sold the truck.

It just didn't seem to matter that I got hit by an uninsured motorist who didn't own the car and yet the driver's uncle wasn't at fault for loaning out his uninsured vehicle to his nephew.

I'll never think that the laws or the fees we pay for insurance are worth much other than protecting the loan companies.

Pssst. UM only covers your bodily injuries if caused by an uninsured motorist. No deductibles. OTOH, the property damage is covered by your collision coverage. Thus, it doesn't matter if your car was trashed by someone who lacked insurance, in that scenario, you get hosed with paying your deductible.

[Okla-homey]

if you want a DL in the state of texas, you'll have to have proof of insurance first

are you sure? I don't see how that could be possible. That would mean the only people who could get a DL in TX would be the people who own or lease cars, or are in the same household with someone who does. I know of no auto insurance carrier who will write a policy on someone who isn't insuring a car.

[BigRedJed]

Holy crap. I take back being convinced. Hold the phone on getting that approved in OK, Froze.

[jk the sooner fan]

How does that work, JK? I was typing my response to Mixer! when you posted that, and now I'm curious how Texas handles situations like I described.

not sure how it works, i just know if you dont previously have a DL and want one, you need insurance.

[jk the sooner fan]

are you sure? I don't see how that could be possible. That would mean the only people who could get a DL in TX would be the people who own or lease cars, or are in the same household with someone who does. I know of no auto insurance carrier who will write a policy on someone who isn't insuring a car.

yes i'm sure

[yermom]

See, that's the point-that insurance would no longer follow the vehicle but the driver. You have insurance for any action that you take while operating a motor vehicle.

sweet, so i'm covered whem i drive someone's Corvette or when i drive my crappy hooptie?

[BajaOklahoma]

How does that work, JK? I was typing my response to Mixer! when you posted that, and now I'm curious how Texas handles situations like I described.

We only have to go in every other time we renew, if we meet the criteria (no outstanding tickets/warrants, etc).
When you do have to go in, you have to take your birth certificate, social security card, and current proof of insurance. Don't have them, don't waste your time.

The state is also working on a system to require insurance carriers to report any vehicle insurance policy cancellations on a monthly basis. I'm not sure of the date it becomes effective, but it is intended to prevent people from taking out a policy to renew their license and then cancelling it. I think they will be reporting new policies too. I assume by driver's license number. the idea is great, but the things I've heard about the implementation is ..... not organized well.

[BajaOklahoma]

are you sure? I don't see how that could be possible. That would mean the only people who could get a DL in TX would be the people who own or lease cars, or are in the same household with someone who does. I know of no auto insurance carrier who will write a policy on someone who isn't insuring a car.

It has been this way for years. To be able to get licenses for my kids, our insurance agent had to send us a proof of insurance card with the kids listed. Couldn't get their license until then.

[BajaOklahoma]

So I could still then own my own vehicle and not carry insurance on it? I mean, couldn't I prove to the DPS that I had insurance through my employer, and then drive around in a hooptie without insurance, since I had retained my license?

What if I lose my job and company vehicle, and then need to go out and search for employment? I'm guessing I would buy or rent a car for that activity. Won't that be difficult once I've forfeited my license, as required by law?

Or, let me ask you this... ...what if I ride the bus to work, or ride with a neighbor, don't own any vehicle OR drive a company car? Should I then have to forfeit my license? Not a huge problem, until I go on vacation and try to rent a car, or borrow a friend/family member's car for a few days.

What I'm getting at is that your strategy pretty much requires that someone own a car to be licensed. I don't think that's a good solution. I think we need to closely tie insurance to having a tagged vehicle, rather than to having a driver's license. Probably more closely than we do.

I would have no problem with a situation where the DPS gets notification if your insurance lapses, and where if you have a wreck without insurance the state HAMMERS YOUR ***. But I seriously don't believe you could realistically tie it to driving privileges. Until someone is caught driving without insurance, that is.


To get our licenses when we drove company vehicles, we simply got a letter on company letterhead stating that we were issued company vehicles AND the proof of insurance for the company vehicles to take in.
when renting a vehicle, we did the same, though we had to take out the rental insurance.

[Frozen Sooner]

sweet, so i'm covered whem i drive someone's Corvette or when i drive my crappy hooptie?

From a liability standpoint, yes. Obviously, property coverages follow the property.

[Phil]

Of course, in Oklahoma, the statute of limitations on a UM claim doesn't start to run until the carrier denies the claim. You have me to thank for that nonsensical piece of law, although I did get a nice dissent from Justice Opala.

[Mixer!]

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4521/mwcphildj9.jpg

"Kids, thank your father..."
"Thanks, Dad."

[Okla-homey]

Of course, in Oklahoma, the statute of limitations on a UM claim doesn't start to run until the carrier denies the claim. You have me to thank for that nonsensical piece of law, although I did get a nice dissent from Justice Opala.

Cite?