Do you pay too much in taxes?

[Big Red Ron]

Serious question. If you got a refund in the last five years, you are automatically unqualified to answer this question and I guess we'll just have to use the honor system on that.

By the time I pay my accountant and pay my taxes, I pay roughly 40% of my gross income toward state and federal taxes.

That's just wrong.

[Blue]

No. 1099 and I pay about 8%. Lot of write-offs.

[Soonerus]

I pay too much in my opinion....I have no memory of receiving a refund...

[shaun4411]

be very glad you dont live in europe or canada. for what it's worth, the usa has the lowest income tax rate compared to all industralized first world nations.

[Big Red Ron]

No. 1099 and I pay about 8%. Lot of write-offs.I'm a 1099 too and a business owner. No way you can be at 8% in reality.

[Big Red Ron]

be very glad you dont live in europe or canada. for what it's worth, the usa has the lowest income tax rate compared to all industralized first world nations.Really? Holly crap, are you in a sociology class at a community college or something?

Screw them, they are socialist dumb****s with massive unemployment.

This is what we don't want to be.

[Curly Bill]

be very glad you dont live in europe or canada. for what it's worth, the usa has the lowest income tax rate compared to all industralized first world nations.

As opposed to the non-industrialized first world nations? ;)

[shaun4411]

Really? Holly crap, are you in a sociology class at a community college or something?

Screw them, they are socialist dumb****s with massive unemployment.

This is what we don't want to be.


no, i am german actually. and i guess you misconstrued my statement. i said be glad you arent in these countries. so i was sort of taking your side. thank you for your pleasant comments towards me.

and unemployment is where it is there because of the incentive. unemployed people actually are given more money than many people who are in low income brackets.

[Jerk]

and unemployment is where it is there because of the incentive. unemployed people actually are given more money than many people who are in low income brackets.

That's beautiful. I bet all they have to do in return is vote 'green party' or 'labour.'

[Curly Bill]

unemployed people actually are given more money than many people who are in low income brackets.

Yeah well, we give people tax refunds when they didn't pay any in the first place. :P

[Jerk]

The answer I guess is no. We pay on less than 80k, because we have write-offs. If we didn't have that certain write-off, then we'd pay on +80k, and the answer would be 'yes'

Thank you Ronald Reagan (or whoever it was) for teh write-off.

[Big Red Ron]

no, i am german actually. and i guess you misconstrued my statement. i said be glad you arent in these countries. so i was sort of taking your side. thank you for your pleasant comments towards me.

and unemployment is where it is there because of the incentive. unemployed people actually are given more money than many people who are in low income brackets.Apologies then. Usually some semi-educated teenager tries to compare us to Europe. We are the only super power because we aren't like those countries. Thank God. A vote for Obama is a vote to be MORE like Europe.

[shaun4411]

That's beautiful. I bet all they have to do in return is vote 'green party' or 'labour.'


its a give and take. many people see between 40-50% of their income go to taxes. in the usa, only the higher income earners pay tax rates between 35% and 40%. this is of course before the 19% VAT on every purchase.

it isnt cheap taking care of all of those people who dont want to work. (and give them free healthcare) :D

[Jerk]

it isnt cheap taking care of all of those people who dont want to work. (and give them free healthcare) :D
Really? Well...what if I don't want to work either. Hell, my wife says she doesn't want to work. I think we'd be better of not working. What about bills? We just won't pay them. What would you do with a million dollars? Two chicks at the same time!

[Curly Bill]

What would you do with a million dollars? Two chicks at the same time!

Only two? ;)

[Big Red Ron]

"Cuz, I think if I had a million dollars. I could make that happen."

That is one of the funniest movies EVAR!

[Jerk]

Only two? ;)
Sh** I'd want to be like King David or Samuel or whoever it was.

[shaun4411]

how many times have i seen a thread about tax turn into doing 2 girls at the same time?

just go to amsterdam, two women will only cost you €50 =)

[Blue]

I'm a 1099 too and a business owner. No way you can be at 8% in reality.

That's funny, cause I am. As an independent contractor w/ my taxes filed in Alabama while I work in Georgia, I write off everything.

I just opened my own business, so I expect that to change. But not by much.

[OUAndy1807]

I'm a 1099 too and a business owner.

so are you including your employer side taxes in that 40% number? if not, you're just being a braggart.

[MamaMia]

There are so many taxes on so many things. Yes, I pay way too much.

[Big Red Ron]

how many times have i seen a thread about tax turn into doing 2 girls at the same time?

just go to amsterdam, two women will only cost you €50 =)Yeah but those chicks are kinda rough.:O

[bluedogok]

How does getting a refund mean that you didn't "pay" taxes? I have been "paying" my taxes all year through payroll deduction, of course I try to get it to a point of a small refund because I hate having to send a check in with the form every year. I the the year end bonuses the past few years are what killed me on having the right amount taken out. When you are DINK's and you have a large refund, you are just having too much taken out.

When I worked a year of contract that sucked, I would much rather pay through a payroll deduction rather than quarterly. It seemed when I did pay quarterly it was still never enough.....of course I don't think that I wrote off nearly enough back then either.


so are you including your employer side taxes in that 40% number? if not, you're just being a braggart.
In most "contract (1099) situations the employer isn't paying that "contribution". The self-employment tax penalty is what turned me off of just working contract

[shaun4411]

Yeah but those chicks are kinda rough.:O

obviously you havent been to amsterdam my friend. ive been there just 3 times, but i have kept my eyes open. there are women for every taste. ive seen heavenly beautiful women that belong in magazines. and ive seen god awful disgusting 60 yro old prunes. big medium small black white yellow brown. they have EVERYTHING. its fun because you look at them through their windows, and they silently beg you to come in for a good time.

[Big Red Ron]

obviously you havent been to amsterdam my friend. ive been there just 3 times, but i have kept my eyes open. there are women for every taste. ive seen heavenly beautiful women that belong in magazines. and ive seen god awful disgusting 60 yro old prunes. big medium small black white yellow brown. they have EVERYTHING. its fun because you look at them through their windows, and they silently beg you to come in for a good time.It does sound like a nice place to visit. ;)

[OUAndy1807]

In most "contract (1099) situations the employer isn't paying that "contribution". The self-employment tax penalty is what turned me off of just working contract

I think you're saying what I was trying to say more accurately. If he's self employed, he's paying the income taxes that everyone with a normal job pays, plus the taxes an employer normally pays, which would make it look inflated in comparison to everyone elses tax percentage.

[Big Red Ron]

How does getting a refund mean that you didn't "pay" taxes?You realize that once you pass a certain point in salary, your income tax gets larger and not at an equal or even "fair" rate, right?

[jk the sooner fan]

if you think your taxes are high now, just wait till after the election - with all the programs being promised by Obama and HRC - going to work will be much more painful

[Soonerus]

If Obama is elected, I will be killed with taxes...

[OUAndy1807]

You realize that once you pass a certain point in salary, your income tax gets larger and not at an equal or even "fair" rate, right?

what's that have to do with the relationship between what you owe and what you have withheld?

[tommieharris91]

Yes, and I haven't read a word of this thread.

[olevetonahill]

if you think your taxes are high now, just wait till after the election - with all the programs being promised by Obama and HRC - going to work will be much more painful
Well since ur an Elephantsass you aint got Nuthing to worry bout from the Donks !

[Big Red Ron]

I think you're saying what I was trying to say more accurately. If he's self employed, he's paying the income taxes that everyone with a normal job pays, plus the taxes an employer normally pays, which would make it look inflated in comparison to everyone Else's tax percentage.Sorry, didn't see your original post. Sorta, it isn't really that cut and dry but I have people for that. :D However, that's also part of my point. There is a multi million dollar industry that lives off of the tax code AND WE HAVE TO PAY to have someone figure out all the effing BS that's been written into tax laws. I swear, I'll vote for anyone with the balls to run on junking the IRS and the current income tax system.

Punishing people for working hard is a helluva way to sustain a thriving economy is all I'm sayin.

[olevetonahill]

If Obama is elected, I will be killed with taxes...
So just Sue someone else !:mad:

[OUAndy1807]

Punishing people for working hard is a helluva way to sustain a thriving economy is all I'm sayin.
I agree with that.

[Soonerus]

Didn't see your original post. I have people for that but that;s also part of my point. There is a multi million dollar industry that lives off of the tax code AND WE HAVE TO PAY to have someone figure out all the effing BS that's been written into tax laws. I swear, I'll vote for anyone with the balls to run on junking the IRS and the current income tax system.

Punishing people for working hard is a helluva way to sustain a thriving economy is all I'm sayin.

You sound like a Ron Paul supporter...

[Vaevictis]

You realize that once you pass a certain point in salary, your income tax gets larger and not at an equal or even "fair" rate, right?

Yeah, but a refund doesn't mean that you didn't pay taxes. It just means you sent more money to the IRS than you had to. So, they send you a check in the amount of your overpayment.

[OUAndy1807]

You sound like a Ron Paul supporter...
except he's gainfully employed and has more than a rudimentary, simple knowledge of the subject.

[tommieharris91]

Punishing people for working hard is a helluva way to sustain a thriving economy is all I'm sayin.

The economy sure ain't thriving right now, but anything that will increase government spending without any government saving is a bad move, especially right now.

[Big Red Ron]

Yeah, but a refund doesn't mean that you didn't pay taxes. It just means you sent more money to the IRS than you had to. So, they send you a check in the amount of your overpayment.I'm sorry but...and this is an honest question, what the hell are you talking about? Am I missing something?

[Soonerus]

I'm sorry but...and this is an honest question, what the hell are you talking about? Am I missing something?

no kidding...

[olevetonahill]

I'm sorry but...and this is an honest question, what the hell are you talking about? Am I missing something?
Kinda seems eazy to me
Ya let the Gov. Take 10 Bucks from ya
You only OWE the Bastages 5 . So you get 5 Back
Izseemple

[Vaevictis]

I'm sorry but...and this is an honest question, what the hell are you talking about? Am I missing something?

Ok:



How does getting a refund mean that you didn't "pay" taxes?You realize that once you pass a certain point in salary, your income tax gets larger and not at an equal or even "fair" rate, right?

So, I inferred that you were taking issue with his question, especially given your original statement:


Serious question. If you got a refund in the last five years, you are automatically unqualified to answer this question and I guess we'll just have to use the honor system on that.

So, as I interjected: Getting a refund from the IRS does not imply that you didn't pay taxes. It more often implies that you paid more taxes than you owed.

[olevetonahill]

Yeah, but a refund doesn't mean that you didn't pay taxes. It just means you sent more money to the IRS than you had to. So, they send you a check in the amount of your overpayment.
Go figure, Me and this Vicious dude seem to agree ;)

[Big Red Ron]

Kinda seems eazy to me
Ya let the Gov. Take 10 Bucks from ya
You only OWE the Bastages 5 . So you get 5 Back
IzseempleYeah, but the original post tries to weed out anyone that pays the bottom rate or only Soc. Sec and FICA minimums because they have no idea what I'm talking about. I didn't until about 8 years ago and it's gotten worse every year.

[olevetonahill]

Yeah, but the original post tries to weed out anyone that pays the bottom rate or only Soc. Sec and FICA minimums because they have no idea what I'm talking about. I didn't until about 8 years ago and it's gotten worse every year.
Well I think ya fer Payin MY VA stuff :cool:

[Vaevictis]

Yeah, but the original post tries to weed out anyone that pays the bottom rate or only Soc. Sec and FICA minimums because they have no idea what I'm talking about. I didn't until about 8 years ago and it's gotten worse every year.

Ah, but your original statement:


If you got a refund in the last five years, you are automatically unqualified to answer this question and I guess we'll just have to use the honor system on that.

That filters a hell of a lot more people out than just people who pay the bottom rate and/or only the social security and FICA minimums.

Someone who made $1 billion and owed $350 million in taxes can still get a refund if he sends in $350 million + $1 dollar.

[bluedogok]

You realize that once you pass a certain point in salary, your income tax gets larger and not at an equal or even "fair" rate, right?
Yes, my wife and I have found that out. That is why I stated that my calculations on withholding were foiled by my year end bonuses. As a Dual Income-No Kids married couple, we get stung by not having enough taken out. So we have to have additional taken out per check since the withholding tables are skewed for "making you think" that you are "taking home more" than you really are.


Sorry, didn't see your original post. Sorta, it isn't really that cut and dry but I have people for that. :D However, that's also part of my point. There is a multi million dollar industry that lives off of the tax code AND WE HAVE TO PAY to have someone figure out all the effing BS that's been written into tax laws. I swear, I'll vote for anyone with the balls to run on junking the IRS and the current income tax system.
That is why we will never have any meaningful tax reform in this country, the industry and their lobbyists have too much at stake not to pay off the politicians to keep it going and even more complicated.


Punishing people for working hard is a helluva way to sustain a thriving economy is all I'm sayin.
I agree, the self-employment tax situation (and other issues with being self-employed) is designed to push you into working for others. One of these days I will head out on my own again, I am just not ready to take that step yet.


You sound like a Ron Paul supporter...
Damn straight.....I am voting for him tomorrow in early voting. If it is for nothing more than just to register it as a protest vote, then it is very well worth it to me.

[Big Red Ron]

Ok:



So, I inferred that you were taking issue with his question, especially given your original statement:



So, as I interjected: Getting a refund from the IRS does not imply that you didn't pay taxes. It more often implies that you paid more taxes than you owed.Oh, I see. I am speaking from the original posts thought. Everyone pays SOME state and federal income tax not denying that. Some pay way more than others and that was what my original point was.

[Vaevictis]

Oh, I see. I am speaking from the original posts thought. Everyone pays SOME state and federal income tax not denying that. Some pay way more than others and that was what my original point was.

Well, it seems like that's not what was inferred by bluedogok, which I expect is why he made the statement you quoted.

And no, not everyone pays some state and federal income tax. Most, but not everyone. There's plenty of poor people -- and some rich people -- who don't.

[olevetonahill]

Ok all you Hard workin Taxpayers .
Say Thank ya Olevet ;)
Cause I aint gonna File and get that 300 Bucks from Yall :P :D :cool:

[Curly Bill]

Ok all you Hard workin Taxpayers .
Say Thank ya Olevet ;)
Cause I aint gonna File and get that 300 Bucks from Yall :P :D :cool:

$300 will buy lots of natty.

[olevetonahill]

Ok all you Hard workin Taxpayers .
Say Thank ya Olevet ;)
Cause I aint gonna File and get that 300 Bucks from Yall :P :D :cool:
So I figure Im savin Every one here a Knickle in Future Taxes !;)
Now whos The Man ?:D

[olevetonahill]

$300 will buy lots of natty.
But We all Have to Sacrifice
I do My part!:cool:

[Soonerus]

Responding to your own post...nice...

[Curly Bill]

But We all Have to Sacrifice
I do My part!:cool:

That's why you sir, are a great American.

[Big Red Ron]

Ah, but your original statement:



That filters a hell of a lot more people out than just people who pay the bottom rate and/or only the social security and FICA minimums.

Someone who made $1 billion and owed $350 million in taxes can still get a refund if he sends in $350 million + $1 dollar.Oh, C'mon. You guys know what I'm talking about. I'm not falling for any liberal-jedi mind tricks.:D

[olevetonahill]

Responding to your own post...nice...
Is better than walking Down the alley Talkin to urself . Like U ;) :cool: :rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

That's why you sir, are a great American.
There Ya go
I sacrifice That knickle Fer all Of Ya :cool:

[Vaevictis]

Oh, C'mon. You guys know what I'm talking about. I'm not falling for any liberal-jedi mind tricks.:D

Hey, I had an idea, but this is the internets, and on the tubes, if it can be misunderstood by anyone, it WILL be misunderstood by someone

Usually deliberately. Just to be a pain in the ***. Guilty as charged.

:D

[olevetonahill]

Oh, C'mon. You guys know what I'm talking about. I'm not falling for any liberal-jedi mind tricks.:D
But Ya did a Great Jorb of Fallin Fer this Olevet Drunk tricks ;) :D :cool:

[olevetonahill]

Hey, I had an idea, but this is the internets, and on the tubes, if it can be misunderstood by anyone, it WILL be misunderstood by someone

Usually deliberately. Just to be a pain in the ***. Guilty as charged.

:D
I have NEVAR Miscombulated anything !
Less It was On porpose ;)

[Blue]

As a 1099, how do you pay your taxes! Saving almost half your earnings all year?!

I'd quit if I owed that much at the end of the year. I guess you pay quarterly in advance. Still. Do like Kramer and, "Write it off!"

[RacerX]

Getting a refund means you paid too much tax.

So there.

[Big Red Ron]

http://www.adorablerats.com/XmasRats4.jpg

[olevetonahill]

Getting a refund means you paid too much tax.

So there.
You so Smart !
Aint that what the Hell we Been sayin ?:eek:
Now You GREAT Okies
Voted In that I dont Pay sales TAX ( even On Natty):cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
No Property Tax , And every 3 YEARs I can Buy a Gazillion Dollar car and Not Have to Pay excise Tax
Course I still drive around In My old 99 Chevy Beater !;)
But Thank Yall any way :cool: ;)

[soonerscuba]

Heh. Two points, a man with tax problems is a man with no problems. Also, some of you have no idea what a CPA actually does, do you?

[olevetonahill]

Heh. Two points, a man with tax problems is a man with no problems. Also, some of you have no idea what a CPA actually does, do you?
Idjit we all Know that !:mad:
Its Count , Publick , *******s !
what I win ?:cool:

[Frozen Sooner]

Oh, I see. I am speaking from the original posts thought. Everyone pays SOME state and federal income tax not denying that. Some pay way more than others and that was what my original point was.

I don't pay any state income tax.

:both hands in air making "V" sign, running around:

[olevetonahill]

I don't pay any state income tax.

:both hands in air making "V" sign, running around:
Is that a Butt Blug In your A ?:eek:

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I'd be embarrassed to admit how little I pay in Federal taxes, with all the Mexican dependents I declare. So little, in fact, I sometimes get hit with ATM.

But honestly, I wish there was an immigration reform bill passed so they could come to the U.S. and work.

They've been waiting in line for 10 years!


I do pay hefty property tax though.

[Harry Beanbag]

I'd be embarrassed to admit how little I pay in Federal taxes, with all the Mexican dependents I declare. So little, in fact, I sometimes get hit with ATM.

But honestly, I wish there was an immigration reform bill passed so they could come to the U.S. and work.

They've been waiting in line for 10 years!


I do pay hefty property tax though.


***-to-Mouth. Ewwww, that's quite a punishment.

[Mjcpr]

This thread has a Bruce feel to it.

:D

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yes.

[sooneron]

How does any sort of refund mean that you don't pay too much? It means you have a good accountant and you hang on to your **** for write offs. Federal? probably, I would like to see less going out to them. Local/state? Hell YES, we pay too much. My property taxes are over 11 grand- we occupy < 1/4 acre and not a huge house. This tax has increased by more than 3k in the last 4 years! Our schools are among the best in the state (which ranks pretty high nationally), but I'm sure there's a lot being wasted. Why do we need a shiny new fleet of police cars? Our town is a whopping 2.7 miles square! We have more emergency vehicles than we could ever need in a town of this size.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

How does any sort of refund mean that you don't pay too much? It means you have a good accountant and you hang on to your **** for write offs. Federal? probably, I would like to see less going out to them. Local/state? Hell YES, we pay too much. My property taxes are over 11 grand- we occupy < 1/4 acre and not a huge house. This tax has increased by more than 3k in the last 4 years! Our schools are among the best in the state (which ranks pretty high nationally), but I'm sure there's a lot being wasted. Why do we need a shiny new fleet of police cars? Our town is a whopping 2.7 miles square! We have more emergency vehicles than we could ever need in a town of this size.

Where the hell do you live with property tax like that?

How can they sustain that level of taxation - I would move away.

[sooneron]

Where the hell do you live with property tax like that?

How can they sustain that level of taxation - I would move away.
One of the most highly taxed areas in the country- Bergen County NJ. I would like to move away, but my business is mostly here. The wife has a solid job with very good benefits income. Moving to a cheaper place in the same general area would mean less time with my kid.

[Position Limit]

1099 here. even with a very good accountant, it's not a very happy place at position limit's house. i usually try to justify it with the philosophy that the more i pay then i must have had a great year. i've had a few years in the recent past where i've had to write obscene checks to the treasury. so yes, i feel i pay too much. then you trow in property taxes, sales taxes, city county and state taxes. it's out of control.

not to hijack this tread, but what's really sad is the rules surrounding SEP IRA's and retirement accounts in general. it's like the IRS is trying to prohibit you from saving for retirement. which is a very important thing to save for. as a 1099 filer the most one can contribute is about 45k. that's it!!!

[sooner_born_1960]

45k per year? That's a lot more than us W2 people can contribute.

[OUAndy1807]

I think that you mean the most that you can contribute TAX FREE is 45k. They don't care if you save more than that, you're just not getting a tax break.

Also, we all think we pay too much in taxes.

[Civicus_Sooner]

Also, we all think we pay too much in taxes.Then why would we elect anyone committed to raising your taxes, instead of cutting government?

[badger]

I'm just now joining this discussion. Since NP and I got married mid-year last year, we originally had our W2 at work as individuals, but are considering filing jointly.

I have always received refunds, because writers are notoriously low-paid, hehe (not that I'm complaining, because I enjoy my work, much like teachers out there who are in the same predicament), but NP has always had to pay in more taxes after those taken out of the paycheck.

So... should we file individually while we can, or file jointly because we can?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I'm just now joining this discussion. Since NP and I got married mid-year last year, we originally had our W2 at work as individuals, but are considering filing jointly.

I have always received refunds, because writers are notoriously low-paid, hehe (not that I'm complaining, because I enjoy my work, much like teachers out there who are in the same predicament), but NP has always had to pay in more taxes after those taken out of the paycheck.

So... should we file individually while we can, or file jointly because we can?

Calculate it both ways and file whichever way gives Uncle Sam the most. ;)

[Position Limit]

I think that you mean the most that you can contribute TAX FREE is 45k. They don't care if you save more than that, you're just not getting a tax break.

Also, we all think we pay too much in taxes.

that 45k is not TAX FREE. it's deferred until you are retired and forced to start taking it out and taxed. no way is it tax free. and while i'm aware that they dont care if i save more than that, which i do, brings up an entirely different accounting mechanism. brokerage accounts, prefered vairable life, and all of that other good taxable stuff. and there are plenty of ways around that (accountant). my point is that there is not an incentive to save for retirement other than the pittance the IRS allows. if i make $50 million the most i can put in an IRA is 45k. dont get me wrong, if i made 50 large i would'nt be too concerned with retirement. what's wrong with making 45k the threshold for deferment, and a reduced tax on anything over that and balance to be paid at retirement?

[Civicus_Sooner]

that 45k is not TAX FREE. it's deferred until you are retired and forced to start taking it out and taxed. no way is it tax free. and while i'm aware that they dont care if i save more than that, which i do, brings up an entirely different accounting mechanism. brokerage accounts, prefered vairable life, and all of that other good taxable stuff. and there are plenty of ways around that (accountant). my point is that there is not an incentive to save for retirement other than the pittance the IRS allows. if i make $50 million the most i can put in an IRA is 45k. dont get me wrong, if i made 50 large i would'nt be too concerned with retirement. what's wrong with making 45k the threshold for deferment, and a reduced tax on anything over that and balance to be paid at retirement?Then if you should happen to die, they tax it before your wife and kids get any of it.

[mdklatt]

Also, we all think we pay too much in taxes.

No ****. Nobody likes to pay taxes, but we all sure do like government spending don't we? Correction...we all like government spending that benefits us. Government spending that benefits anybody else is "socialism". :rolleyes: Most people think politicians are crooks. But incumbents get reelected 98% of the time or some ridiculously high number like that. So, people think the politicians they voted for are okay, it's just all the other ones who are crooks. In short, people are full of ****.

The only responsible way to lower taxes is to lower government spending. No more Republican "charge it!" economics. Here's a challenge to everybody in this thread: Make a list of government spending that personally benefits you that you're willing to do away with.

Here are some ideas to get you started.

- No more federal highway spending. Make everything a toll road, and get rid of fuel taxes. Keep in mind that 1/3 of highway spending comes from the general fund, so you'd probably end up paying more overall.

- Close Vance AFB. They do virtually the same stuff that Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls does. Maybe close Altus, too. Why do we need a C-5 base in the middle of the country when I'm guessing that most C-5 flights are international?

- Increase gas prices to reflect the actual cost. No more free rides. Gas prices are subsidized by the government through military spending. Our military wouldn't need to be nearly so large if we didn't have to protect our oil imports. "Projecting power" = protecting oil.

- No more Superfund spending for Picher. Let them clean up their own mess. A little heavy metal never killed anybody.

- Get rid of the USDA. Who needs government inspectors anyway. Just sniff your meat to see if it's bad. Capitalism will take care of the rest. As soon as a bunch of people come down with Mad Cow, the supplier responsible will go out of business.

- No more FDA. Drug companies do plenty of testing on their own. If you can't trust an entity whose bottom line is about making a profit, who can you trust? The FDA lets dangerous drugs get through the system anyway, so why bother at all? Caveat emptor.

[OUAndy1807]

Then why would we elect anyone committed to raising your taxes, instead of cutting government?
because people are basically stupid animals.

[mdklatt]

Did anybody ever straighten out the ninnies who think that if you get a refund it means you didn't pay any taxes?

I'm seriously starting to think that this whole "universal suffrage" thing is a bad idea.

[mdklatt]

Then if you should happen to die, they tax it before your wife and kids get any of it.

Well yeah, because it was never taxed to begin with.

[badger]

Here are some ideas to get you started.

- No more federal highway spending. Make everything a toll road, and get rid of fuel taxes. Keep in mind that 1/3 of highway spending comes from the general fund, so you'd probably end up paying more overall.
This would be good for Oklahoma. We are one of the states that gets screwed in highway spending, in that we pay more into the system then we get out. Perhaps all the dollars we pay in will now be spent on our own highways (no, they'll be deferred to education, lol). This may also lead to some states lowering the drinking age again - the highway dollars was the incentive to raise it to 21.


- Close Vance AFB. They do virtually the same stuff that Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls does. Maybe close Altus, too. Why do we need a C-5 base in the middle of the country when I'm guessing that most C-5 flights are international?
I think military bases are a national issue, not a state issue.


- Increase gas prices to reflect the actual cost. No more free rides. Gas prices are subsidized by the government through military spending. Our military wouldn't need to be nearly so large if we didn't have to protect our oil imports. "Projecting power" = protecting oil.

This would cause more people to commute with others or take public transportation. It might be a good idea, considering the roads are in bad shape and environmentalists will love the decreased gas consumption.


- No more Superfund spending for Picher. Let them clean up their own mess. A little heavy metal never killed anybody.
Will the mess ever get cleaned up if we have to do it ourselves? Then again, we just threw ourselves a $130 million dollar birthday party...


- Get rid of the USDA. Who needs government inspectors anyway. Just sniff your meat to see if it's bad. Capitalism will take care of the rest. As soon as a bunch of people come down with Mad Cow, the supplier responsible will go out of business.
Seeing how they aren't doing their job anyway, hehe :(


- No more FDA. Drug companies do plenty of testing on their own. If you can't trust an entity whose bottom line is about making a profit, who can you trust? The FDA lets dangerous drugs get through the system anyway, so why bother at all? Caveat emptor.
People also do their own competitive pricing by hoping the borders. When I was in Wisconsin, people took buses to Canada to fill prescriptions. Is it the same in Texas and other border states to Mexico?

[SoonerBBall]

FairTax. I'm just sayin.

[SCOUT]

Here's a challenge to everybody in this thread: Make a list of government spending that personally benefits you that you're willing to do away with.
While that sounds like a fun exercise, wouldn't it be more effective to list the things that don't benefit anyone?

I'll go first. Paying outrageous prices for common items just because it is the approved practice.

[MamaMia]

The answer to this question is "YES" and the reasoning behind that answer should be understandable, even to the simple minded. As long as the government, whether it be county, state or federal is spending our money on special interest projects in an effort to obtain generous campaign donations, and other self serving crap that we don't need to be shelling out for, we are all paying too much in taxes.

[mdklatt]

I think military bases are a national issue, not a state issue.


I was talking about federal spending, but throw in state spending too. A whole bunch of people who think the government "spends too much money" would sure pitch a fit if the government decided to stop spending so much money by closing down Tinker, for example. People are full of ****, which is the underlying assumption of all politics.

[soonerbrat]

Serious question. If you got a refund in the last five years, you are automatically unqualified to answer this question and I guess we'll just have to use the honor system on that.

By the time I pay my accountant and pay my taxes, I pay roughly 40% of my gross income toward state and federal taxes.

That's just wrong.

actually more than that probably. in Oklahoma, you pay what...8% tax on everything you buy, extra taxes on gas and liquor and if you're a tobacco user, tobacco.

[mdklatt]

While that sounds like a fun exercise, wouldn't it be more effective to list the things that don't benefit anyone?


Oh absolutely, but I hear a lot of people that are perfectly willing cut somebody else's government benefits without looking in their own backyard first.

"Bridge to nowhere"? To hell with that. What do you mean I'm not getting as much from the "stimulus package" as everybody else? To hell with that!

[mdklatt]

actually more than that probably. in Oklahoma, you pay what...8% tax on everything you buy, extra taxes on gas and liquor and if you're a tobacco user, tobacco.


Don't drink or smoke. Problem solved. It's all about choices and personal responsibility, isn't it?

[Mjcpr]

Gas, liquor and tobacco are charged a tax seperate from sales tax, I believe. So it isn't the additional tax + sales tax.

I think.

[soonerbrat]

Gas, liquor and tobacco are charged a tax seperate from sales tax, I believe. So it isn't the additional tax + sales tax.

I think.


you sure?

but whatever because it's still more than what regular sales tax is. and my point is...we aren't done paying taxes after they take them out of our paychecks.

[JohnnyMack]

Don't drink or smoke. Problem solved. It's all about choices and personal responsibility, isn't it?

So if you drink and smoke you're not showing responsibility or you shouldn't bitch about taxes?

[Mjcpr]

you sure?

but whatever because it's still more than what regular sales tax is. and my point is...we aren't done paying taxes after they take them out of our paychecks.

Pretty sure. I don't know the gas or tobacco tax rates, but I know the liquor rate is higher than sales tax. I think all 3 go back to the cities and counties based on population rather than where the purchase was made (or shipped) like sales tax does.

But yeah, I get your point. :)

[yermom]

This thread has a Bruce feel to it.

:D

no joke.

i mean if you are worried about hitting your max on your IRA, maybe you aren't living within your means. it's not like taxes are some new thing

there are lots of people that can't afford to pay anything into any retirement fund

does it not make sense to tax someone like Bruce more?

Bruce might need to buy a smaller house or boat if they pay more taxes vs. someone buying less food for their family

[MamaMia]

So if you drink and smoke you're not showing responsibility or you shouldn't bitch about taxes?The governmant is making drinkers and smokers pay more for fear that they might die sooner, and they want to get as much as they can before then. :P

[mdklatt]

So if you drink and smoke you're not showing responsibility or you shouldn't bitch about taxes?

If you drink or smoke you shouldn't bitch about the alcohol or tobacco taxes. IMO, the only unconscionable tax is sales tax on groceries and other necessities. Every other tax is under your control. Have a problem with how much you pay in income taxes? Make less money or move to Texas. Think your property taxes are too high? Move somewhere else (but not Texas). Personal choice and responsibility--it's the Republican way.

[JohnnyMack]

If you drink or smoke you shouldn't bitch about the alcohol or tobacco taxes. IMO, the only unconscionable tax is sales tax on groceries and other necessities. Every other tax is under your control. Have a problem with how much you pay in income taxes? Make less money or move to Texas. Think your property taxes are too high? Move somewhere else (but not Texas). Personal choice and responsibility--it's the Republican way.

I'm moving to Florida.

[SCOUT]

does it not make sense to tax someone like Bruce more?

Bruce might need to buy a smaller house or boat if they pay more taxes vs. someone buying less food for their family

Perhaps Bruce worked hard to earn that big house or boat. You are right, the masses should decide how Bruce spends his earnings.

[mdklatt]

Perhaps Bruce worked hard to earn that big house or boat.

If he can't afford the boat he wants he obviously made a poor choice along the way. As yermom said, it's not like paying taxes is a surprise.



You are right, the masses should decide how Bruce spends his earnings.

Why do you hate America?

[mdklatt]

I'm moving to Florida.

I don't have any idea what kind of taxes they have going on there, so you're on you're own. :D

[yermom]

Perhaps Bruce worked hard to earn that big house or boat. You are right, the masses should decide how Bruce spends his earnings.

the masses don't decide jack...

[OCUDad]

I don't have any idea what kind of taxes they have going on there, so you're on you're own. :DMostly Old People Taxes. Just ask OUinFLA.

[soonerbrat]

If you drink or smoke you shouldn't bitch about the alcohol or tobacco taxes. IMO, the only unconscionable tax is sales tax on groceries and other necessities. Every other tax is under your control. Have a problem with how much you pay in income taxes? Make less money or move to Texas. Think your property taxes are too high? Move somewhere else (but not Texas). Personal choice and responsibility--it's the Republican way.


are you implying I was bitching about it?
all I did was point out that people actually pay more taxes than just income tax that they take out of paychecks, and those were examples of products that people use that cost even MORE tax than sales tax. maybe you don't pay sales tax and the other tax on that stuff, but it's still higher than the regular tax rate.

[mdklatt]

are you implying I was bitching about it?


No, yours was just a post of opportunity. ;)

[mdklatt]

Mostly Old People Taxes.

A higher restaurant tax between 4 pm and 6 pm? :D

[soonerbrat]

now you're just being a smartass

[mdklatt]

now you're just being a smartass


vvvvvvvvvvvvvv :D

[r5TPsooner]

WTF is a refund? After I get the numbers back from the H&R Block Premium people I'll know just how bad it is. The last time that I crunched the numbers, we paid like 42% of our gross monthly income to the tax man.

[Mjcpr]

IMO, the only unconscionable tax is sales tax on groceries and other necessities. Every other tax is under your control. Have a problem with how much you pay in income taxes? Make less money or move to Texas. Think your property taxes are too high? Move somewhere else (but not Texas). Personal choice and responsibility--it's the Republican way.

Have a problem with taxes on groceries? Grow your own or get on teh food stamps.

:D

[Civicus_Sooner]

Well yeah, because it was never taxed to begin with.
Incorrect

[Hamhock]

i haven't read this whole thread, but i want to point out that the original question is flawed.

whether or not you receive a refund has absolutely no bearing on how much you pay in income taxes.

the fact that the question is worded the way it is a fundamental flaw in people's understanding of the income tax system and why it should be overhauled.

[mdklatt]

Incorrect

Weren't you talking about a non-Roth type retirement account?

[mdklatt]

Have a problem with taxes on groceries? Grow your own or get on teh food stamps.

:D

Or move to Texas. :texan:

[Mjcpr]

Or move to Texas. :texan:

And quadruple your property taxes.

[mdklatt]

And quadruple your property taxes.

Not if you rent. Everybody knows that if you get an income tax refund and are a renter you're not affected by taxes at all and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[JaminT]

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif

The estimated population of the United States is 304,430,859
so each citizen's share of this debt is $30,540.25.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.55 billion per day since September 29, 2006!


It would appear we're not paying enough taxes!

[Civicus_Sooner]

Is it right/fair that the wealthiest 1% pays over 40% of all Federal Taxes?

[yermom]

don't they make 90% of the money?

[Civicus_Sooner]

don't they make 90% of the money?no, they don't.

[JaminT]

While we're at it, lets not forget the national debt was dramatically accelerated during the Regan / Bush 1 administrations.

Clinton actually balanced the budget, even had a $230 billion dollar surplus in 2000, and then BigRed's boy W got in there and "lowered taxes"....notice the national debt skyrocket. http://www.marktaw.com/culture_and_media/TheNationalDebtImages/DebtRealDollars1940-2009.gif

Nevermind what we're doing to future generations, lets just keep on piling it on!

America, F*CK YEAH!

[JaminT]

Top 20 Percent control 80 Percent of the Wealth

Top 20 Percent account for over half the income

http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/Courses/so11/stratification/INC&WealthDataTable.htm

[yermom]

i knew it was something dumb like that :D

[Civicus_Sooner]

While we're at it, lets not forget the national debt was dramatically accelerated during the Regan / Bush 1 administrations.

Clinton actually balanced the budget, even had a $230 billion dollar surplus in 2000, and then BigRed's boy W got in there and "lowered taxes"....notice the national debt skyrocket. http://www.marktaw.com/culture_and_media/TheNationalDebtImages/DebtRealDollars1940-2009.gif

Nevermind what we're doing to future generations, lets just keep on piling it on!

America, F*CK YEAH!
To be even more accurate, since Congress and not the President control the purse strings of the Federal Government. Tip O'neil and the Democrat Senate and House caused the deficit increase in the 80's and Newt Gingrich and the Republican Senate & House caused the balance budget in the 90's.

Republicans should and do shoulder most of the blame for the current rise.

[JaminT]

It appears the system broke around the time Reagan got control of the White House. Reagan is remembered for his economic plans, it would appear the "tax less" approach does nothing for the long term well being of the country, and it sure as hell looks like the Republican administrations spent more.

In your scenario, the only way the country heads in the right direction is if a Democratic President is over a GOP Congress. And the WORST formula is a GOP Pres and a GOP Congress.

[Civicus_Sooner]

It appears the system broke around the time Reagan got control of the White House. Reagan is remembered for his economic plans, it would appear the "tax less" approach does nothing for the long term well being of the country, and it sure as hell looks like the Republican administrations spent more.

In your scenario, the only way the country heads in the right direction is if a Democratic President is over a GOP Congress. And the WORST formula is a GOP Pres and a GOP Congress.None of that is accurate. Less taxation leading to greater revenues is a JFK thing. Reaganonmics would have been far more successfull, long term, ifspending would have been decreased at an appropriate rate. You are also not factoring the costs of the cold war and now the war on terror, neither of which did Clinton have to deal with financially.

Actually the worst of all combinations is Dem Congress and Dem President. Remember double didget inflation and lines at the gas stations? I do.

[JaminT]

Yeah, double didget inflation and lines at the gas stations.....thats right before we decided to just charge our burden to the next generation. I'll agree the 70's were tough, but they were tough because we were accountable for our spending, and we made sacrifices. Now we just add our debt to the pile, that turned into a hill, that turned into a mountain. The Dem Congress and Dem President immediately preceded the EXPLOSION in our debt, and the fundamental shift from a fiscally accountable and responsible society to one so dependent on debt, that it's the only thing keeping our economy running.

[C&CDean]

It appears the system broke around the time Reagan got control of the White House. Reagan is remembered for his economic plans, it would appear the "tax less" approach does nothing for the long term well being of the country, and it sure as hell looks like the Republican administrations spent more.

In your scenario, the only way the country heads in the right direction is if a Democratic President is over a GOP Congress. And the WORST formula is a GOP Pres and a GOP Congress.
You're not very old are you?

If you sit around whining about getting overtaxed, buy a farm. April 15 is my biggest single payday of the year. Why? Because I have a damn good accountant and I work my *** off.

But I still think I pay too much in taxes.

[Whet]

Not really, I rarely travel there, so I don't spend too much! But, if you do go to Taxes, watch out for those whorn folks and don't spend too much!

[JaminT]

I'm old enough to remember when Gas was 69 cents a gallon, oh wait, that was 1998

I'm old enough to remember when the Greenback was worth more than the Canadian Dollar and Euro

I'm young enough to have never lived in an America without a Bush or Clinton in the White House

[Civicus_Sooner]

I'm old enough to remember when Gas was 69 cents a gallon, oh wait, that was 1998

I'm old enough to remember when the Greenback was worth more than the Canadian Dollar and Euro

I'm young enough to have never lived in an America without a Bush or Clinton in the White House
Not very old then.

[sooner_born_1960]

Dean nailed that one.

[shaun4411]

just claim 0. youll get more taken out, but more back come tax time.

[yermom]

i'd rather claim 30 and pay nothing and make interest on my money and pay at the end of the year ;)

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Is it right/fair that the wealthiest 1% pays over 40% of all Federal Taxes?

No.

As long as it is a fair percentage and everyone gets taxed on that percentage. I am not for redistribution of wealth. I am for individuals accumulating copious amounts of wealth.

[StoopTroup]

Weres mye gubermint chech?

[Civicus_Sooner]

No.

As long as it is a fair percentage and everyone gets taxed on that percentage. I am not for redistribution of wealth. I am for individuals accumulating copious amounts of wealth.
So you agree with Trent Reznor, sweet.

[shaun4411]

i am a proponent of a consumption-only tax.

[Civicus_Sooner]

i am a proponent of a consumption-only tax.Cheers to that!

[shaun4411]

i'd rather claim 30 and pay nothing and make interest on my money and pay at the end of the year ;)


easy to make interest on a couple hundred dollars per week? i make 10% ever 35 days on a 5 figure sum i have invested. it is pretty nice. free money for doing nothing.

[yermom]

i am a proponent of a consumption-only tax.

assuming necessities were exempt, i'd love to see this.

[NormanPride]

If the difference in the taxes is making 240k a year and 400k a year, I want those problems.

[Hamhock]

i make 10% ever 35 days

how?

[C&CDean]

how?
The same way Melo makes $60K a year working in a bar.

He doesn't.

[Hamhock]

The same way Melo makes $60K a year working in a bar.

He doesn't.


oh, come on, that's only a 104% annualized return.

[NormanPride]

You're just mad because it makes your investment strategy look like little ants scrabbling around for the winter. :D

[yermom]

oh, come on, that's only a 104% annualized return.

he left out the part where the "investments" involved crack rocks ;)

[shaun4411]

how?

im not lying, i really do get a 10% return. it isnt monthly. its every 35 days when they close on a house. and i get paid within 5 business days. usually. so, its more of a every 5-6 weeks return.

I invest in a mortage loan assistance company. ill give you info and explain further if you want in a pm. im not pitching for them or anything. but i was just saying that i do make a return every "month" off of doing nothing. and if you let your money roll over, it grows exponentially.

[Frozen Sooner]

oh, come on, that's only a 104% annualized return.

170.1% once compounding is taken into account.

[mdklatt]

how?

What, your investments don't double every year? Who's your hedge fund manager, Warren Buffet?

Man what a hack. Even a junior partner at Smith freakin' Barney could have scored big in the Initech IPO if he had enough capitalization, but Buffet acts like he's God's gift. Reminds me of a funny story, though. He's always trying to buy my house in Dijon--as if the French countryside needs another villa with a Cornhusker flag hanging over the front door, right? But I tell him, "Hey Buffy, if you can get that tight-fisted Limey twat Branson to settle our polo bet, the house is yours and I'll even leave a case of '82 Lafite in the cellar for you." Good times.

[mdklatt]

double post

[Curly Bill]

What, your investments don't double every year? Who's your hedge fund manager, Warren Buffet?

Man what a hack. Even a junior partner at Smith freakin' Barney could have scored big in the Initech IPO if he had enough capitalization, but Buffet acts like he's God's gift. Reminds me of a funny story, though. He's always trying to buy my house in Dijon--as if the French countryside needs another villa with a Cornhusker flag hanging over the front door, right? But I tell him, "Hey Buffy, if you can get that tight-fisted Limey twat Branson to settle our polo bet, the house is yours and I'll even leave a case of '82 Lafite in the cellar for you." Good times.

This was worth a double post. :D

[Harry Beanbag]

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif

The estimated population of the United States is 304,430,859
so each citizen's share of this debt is $30,540.25.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.55 billion per day since September 29, 2006!


It would appear we're not paying enough taxes!


No, it would appear the government is spending too much damn money.

[r5TPsooner]

In reading the info about the rebates, it looks like you get $300 per child even if you make more than the $75k/150k plateau?

Of course in reading the the rebate clause, you can tell that a politician wrote the damned thing.

[shaun4411]

No, it would appear the government is spending too much damn money.


the government is ran by bored jobless housewives?

[SoonerBBall]

assuming necessities were exempt, i'd love to see this.

It is called the FairTax. Look it up.


Hell, I'll do it for you. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairtax)

[yermom]

i'm familiar with the concept, i'm just not sure how it would be implemented

[yermom]

but taxing tourists and illegals sounds good to me :D

[SoonerInKCMO]

I don't call them "taxes"; instead, I refer to them as "dues for being a member of a really cool club that less than 5% of the world's population gets to join". Makes me feel better about paying them. :D

[OklahomaTuba]

Taxing comsuption should always come before taxing earnings. In fact, it should be illegal to steal income, investment earnings or savings. That is wrong beyond belief to do that. If we stopped taxing those things and taxed on income, we could probably really grow the economy.

[SOONER STEAKER]

I am retired but pay on my gas/oil rights income. I pay 27% which I feel is way too much. I know I have to contribute, but I feel I don't get my monies worth. I don't mind paying taxes for better roads and the Bricktown renovation, but I hate paying for our congressman, legislatures getting pay raises but they refuse to find the money to pay our teachers.