Reason 5,238 to reform the wacky strong beer law in the Sooner State:

[Okla-homey]

:mad: :mad: :mad:


Strong-beer sellers get frothy

Three beer wholesalers in Tulsa and Oklahoma City are asking the Alcoholic Beverage Laws Enforcement Commission to amend state quality control guidelines for strong beer, which state law requires to be sold only in retail liquor stores regulated by the ABLE Commission.

By TIM TALLEY Associated Press
2/16/2008

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Beer makers clashed with beer wholesalers Friday over which group should be responsible for preserving the freshness of strong beer.

Brewers are demanding that wholesalers help with quality control of their product, while some wholesalers say that's not their job.

Three beer wholesalers in Oklahoma City and Tulsa asked the Alcoholic Beverage Laws Enforcement Commission to amend state quality control guidelines for strong beer with an alcohol content of more than 3.2 percent by weight. State law requires that strong beer be sold only in retail liquor stores regulated by the ABLE Commission.

Beer makers and suppliers said it is important that wholesalers rotate and refrigerate beer because state law prohibits retail liquor stores from refrigerating beer and many do not rotate their bottled beer supplies.

"We'd love to have our products cold in the liquor store," said Brett Robinson, president of the Oklahoma Malt Beverage Association. [we would too Brett, unfortunately, the retail liquor store industry in this state quickly quashes such crazy talk every time it comes up because they would have to spend a few bucks to install refrigerated storage and shelving to remain competitive in such a marketplace.]

But state lawmakers have not authorized it, he said. [because they are grea$ed by the state's retail liquor store lobby]

Tim Zaloudek, a beer distributor in Enid, presented a bottle of imported beer to commission members that he said he recently paid a retail liquor store $4.75 for, although it had an expiration date of December 2006.

"There's no protection for the consumer," he said.

Liquor guidelines acknowledge that beer makers have an interest in keeping their products fresh through such steps as refrigeration, rotation of bottled beer stocks and the cleaning of tap lines attached to kegs of draft beer.

But attorneys for the wholesalers said they are prohibited by law from providing that kind of service to suppliers and that forcing them to would unfairly shift quality control costs.

Attorney John Jarboe of International Beers in Tulsa said the quality control practices of beer wholesalers should be determined by competition in Oklahoma's beer industry and not the ABLE Commission.

"What is at issue here is control," Jarboe said. "It's not something that the Legislature or the board should control."

After more than two hours of testimony, the commission took the issue under advisement until its next meeting on March 21.

Representatives of beer maker Anheuser-Busch Inc. of St. Louis, the Beer Institute in Washington, D.C., and experts on the beer brewing process testified about the importance of refrigeration and rotation to preserve the freshness of bottled beers and the periodic cleaning of beer tap lines to keep draft beer fresh.

"The draft line is like drinking beer through a straw," said Alistair T. Pringle, senior director of brewing research for Anheuser-Busch.

Tap lines cost $5 each to clean and should be cleaned every two weeks to eliminate microbes and other impurities that can affect beer's appearance and taste. But beer experts testified that lines in some Oklahoma establishments have not been cleaned for as long as two years. :eek:

Bill Glossen of Premium Distributing said his company recently bought back more than $29,000 worth of outdated beer after finding hundreds of kegs and cases that were past their expiration dates in Oklahoma wholesaler warehouses.

"Beer is a perishable product," said Randy Malone of Anheuser-Busch.

[Dio]

Mmmmmm, beer.

[JohnnyMack]

Tim Zaloudek, a beer distributor in Enid, presented a bottle of imported beer to commission members that he said he recently paid a retail liquor store $4.75 for, although it had an expiration date of December 2006.

If the beer is bottle conditioned, that doesn't really matter. Fuller's 1845 is much better a year or so after it's "expiration date".

[Harry Beanbag]

****ing hillbillies.

[OKC-SLC]

words....beer....kegs....words....$29,000....beer

[bri]

[Oklahoma lawmaker]But...but we CAN'T allow strong beer to be refrigerated and preserved! If we do that, then people will buy and drink it! And that could lead to DANCING![/Oklahoma lawmaker]

[yermom]

some grocery store should just start selling Fat Tire and force the issue

what jury is going to convict them? :D

[bri]

The problem is, it's not about the jury conviction. It would have to be some little, local mom & pop store, and the ABLE Commission would just slap them with enough fines to break them while they fought them all the way up to the Supreme Court. :mad:

[yermom]

we should take up a collection :D

[bri]

Anyone who did try and force the commission's hand would probably be the recipient of much support from the community...

[Scott D]

There are very few things to be thankful about living in Michigan for.

The ability to go to the corner store, grocery store, 7-11, drug store, or gas station to pick me up 1/6/12/24/48 cold ones is definitely on the top of that list. :D

[OU-HSV]

In.
I wish the state would grow up and let us drink the better beer without having to spend an arm and a leg to get "Okie+"

[OKC-SLC]

missouri has good laws--full strength liquor at grocery stores for one. there's basically no reason to go to liquor stores but for selection.

[yermom]

In.
I wish the state would grow up and let us drink the better beer without having to spend an arm and a leg to get "Okie+"

i'd be happy if i could just get it cold and after 9PM

and on Sunday

[bri]

or on holidays.

[Harry Beanbag]

This is one regard in which Tulsa and OKC both suck royally.

[yermom]

or on holidays.

and election days

[bri]

We are the town from Footloose. :( :mad:

[yermom]

i wonder if Kevin Bacon is for hire

[bri]

Since he's been replaced on Hanes' commercials by Oscar winner Cuba Gooding, Jr...signs point to yes. :D

[stoops the eternal pimp]

He should organize a state wide prom

[Whet]

One of the wildest things about moving from Oklahoma to ILLinois, was going to the supermarket and having a complete selection of real beer and liquor! Even on Sundays.....

We can go to Sams Club and they have a liquor/beer section!

[JohnnyMack]

Also, the notion that beer must remain refrigerated to remain fresh is a fallacy. It should stay in a relatively dark (free from direct sunlight) cool (airconditioned air is fine) area but it certainly does not have to be refrigerated to maintain its integrity.

[Harry Beanbag]

Yep. Sunlight is the killer of beer.

http://www.thriftyfun.com/images/articles16/skunk298x300.jpg

[IronSooner]

One of the wildest things about moving from Oklahoma to ILLinois, was going to the supermarket and having a complete selection of real beer and liquor! Even on Sundays.....

We can go to Sams Club and they have a liquor/beer section!

Yep. I loved that. Every time I had friends from OK visit I took them to Schnuck's first to show them the aisle of beer and liquor. It's a beautiful thing.

[OU-HSV]

I know I've mentioned it on here before, but I learned while living in Arkiesaw that they have some messed up liquor laws too. But at least you can by the good beer there.

[12]

Such silly, silly laws. Only eclipsed by the 3.2 thing.

[Jimminy Crimson]

I blame all of you protestants for such silly laws. ;)

[bluedogok]

I know I've mentioned it on here before, but I learned while living in Arkiesaw that they have some messed up liquor laws too. But at least you can by the good beer there.
Pretty much most states have some screwy liquor laws, they just vary as to how bad they are, that is what happens when the Baptists write the liquor laws.

I find the Dallas area wet/dry voting districts and "private club" situation to be the most ridiculous. The Austin area is wet, all wet and you still have places with no liquor sales that allows you to bring in your own like The Salt Lick BBQ where we had lunch today.

[yermom]

yeah, the crap around Dallas is pretty dumb as well

why make it harder for tourists to waste money on booze?

[1stTimeCaller]

I love the TX panhandle. You can't but beer in a store to take home but for $1 per year you can become a member at the Railhead and get liquored up and then drive home.

[MojoRisen]

some grocery store should just start selling Fat Tire and force the issue

what jury is going to convict them? :D


Not the supreme court - I am all about Larry Flint pushing beers in OKC for the sake of the consumer.

[sitzpinkler]

Also, the notion that beer must remain refrigerated to remain fresh is a fallacy. It should stay in a relatively dark (free from direct sunlight) cool (airconditioned air is fine) area but it certainly does not have to be refrigerated to maintain its integrity.

that's not true of Fat Tire though (which is really the only beer I really give a **** about being brought here)

it isn't pasteurized, so if it gets warm, all kinds of nasty **** will grow in it

[Flagstaffsooner]

Can you still buy mixed drinks at a drive thru in Louisiana?

[OU-HSV]

Can you still buy mixed drinks at a drive thru in Louisiana?
I think so. I have a buddy that lives down there temporarily and I believe he's told me that.

[OU-HSV]

Pretty much most states have some screwy liquor laws, they just vary as to how bad they are, that is what happens when the Baptists write the liquor laws.

I find the Dallas area wet/dry voting districts and "private club" situation to be the most ridiculous. The Austin area is wet, all wet and you still have places with no liquor sales that allows you to bring in your own like The Salt Lick BBQ where we had lunch today.
I agree. And there are many dry counties in Arkansas still. And what we call "juice bars" here, they have there too...but you can roll in your own ice chest full of whatever you want to drink instead of having to only drink juice or nothing at all. And really, that's not all that bad, saves quite a bit of money when you can take your own.
However, the dry county crap is very old school IMO...and the stupid rules about what time you can buy such and such alcohol at restaurants in certain communities is stupid too.

[Jimminy Crimson]

I agree. And there are many dry counties in Arkansas still. And what we call "juice bars" here, they have there too...but you can roll in your own ice chest full of whatever you want to drink instead of having to only drink juice or nothing at all. And really, that's not all that bad, saves quite a bit of money when you can take your own.

2 questions...

1. How does an establishment like that stay in business?

2. Why wouldn't you just drink at home or a friends house?

:confused:

PS- Is there a corkage fee?

[OU-HSV]

2 questions...

1. How does an establishment like that stay in business?

2. Why wouldn't you just drink at home or a friends house?

:confused:

PS- Is there a corkage fee?
1) Well, when I say "juice bar" I'm talking about a strip club not just a regular bar. But that does still raise a great question of how do they stay in business...I know there's cover charges..and maybe the strippers give a percentage of their tips back to the club, but you would still think that wouldn't be enough to run a place like that. My only other thought is if when they take guys away from the crowd do they give extra special (more expensive) lap dances (I think you know what I mean) and give a percentage of that back to the club, I'm just not sure. I agree, it seems like it would be tough to keep a place like that open.

2) See above.
It's a strip club that I was talking about.
But I'm with ya, I'm more the kind of guy that wants to sit at a friends house and knock a few back, or go to a sports bar or something and drink there.
As a married man out of respect, I don't frequent the strip clubs. Only when it's a special deal, like a bachelor party or something.
Not to say there haven't been nights where I've been out with buddies and we "end up" in the strip clubs, but you know what I'm sayin. :D
Strip clubs are like Waffle House for me....you "end up" there. It's not always in the plans ya know.

[JohnnyMack]

that's not true of Fat Tire though (which is really the only beer I really give a **** about being brought here)

it isn't pasteurized, so if it gets warm, all kinds of nasty **** will grow in it

http://www.avbc.com/beers/amber.html

[Jimminy Crimson]

1) Well, when I say "juice bar" I'm talking about a strip club not just a regular bar. But that does still raise a great question of how do they stay in business...I know there's cover charges..and maybe the strippers give a percentage of their tips back to the club, but you would still think that wouldn't be enough to run a place like that. My only other thought is if when they take guys away from the crowd do they give extra special (more expensive) lap dances (I think you know what I mean) and give a percentage of that back to the club, I'm just not sure. I agree, it seems like it would be tough to keep a place like that open.

2) See above.
It's a strip club that I was talking about.
But I'm with ya, I'm more the kind of guy that wants to sit at a friends house and knock a few back, or go to a sports bar or something and drink there.
As a married man out of respect, I don't frequent the strip clubs. Only when it's a special deal, like a bachelor party or something.
Not to say there haven't been nights where I've been out with buddies and we "end up" in the strip clubs, but you know what I'm sayin. :D
Strip clubs are like Waffle House for me....you "end up" there. It's not always in the plans ya know.

Gotcha. That makes complete sense. At first I thought this was just a building that sold juice and soda and people brought their own booze. The numbers just didn't add up...

In this case: :pop:

[bluedogok]

I agree. And there are many dry counties in Arkansas still. And what we call "juice bars" here, they have there too...but you can roll in your own ice chest full of whatever you want to drink instead of having to only drink juice or nothing at all. And really, that's not all that bad, saves quite a bit of money when you can take your own.
However, the dry county crap is very old school IMO...and the stupid rules about what time you can buy such and such alcohol at restaurants in certain communities is stupid too.
I didn't know there was wet/dry in Arkansas, I have only spent time in Little Rock and NWA and the areas that I was in were wet.

[royalfan5]

I was on a canoing trip in Northern Arkansas when I was a senior in college. It was kind of annoying to drive to the Missouri state line to buy beer every night.

[1stTimeCaller]

White County Arkansas is dry. Except the Elks Lodge in Searcy.

[phead903]

In Sebastian County, Arkansas (where I live), half the county is wet and the other half is dry. Up in the Northwest corner, the county that Bella Vista (big retirement community) is located in is dry, but all the retirees go just across the state line to MacaDoodles to buy their liquor. The Wal-Mart just across the state line there also has a liquor store in it.

[bluedogok]

I know that Fayetteville and Eureka Springs are wet, after many trips to F'ville and we had a liquor store adjacent to the motel where our motorcycle group was staying in ES.

[TUSooner]

There are essentially no liquor stores in Laweezyana, because every grocery store is a liquor store. And look what it's done for us! OK, bad example, but still ...

[bluedogok]

When I was working in Leesville, Louisiana I thought it was stupid that everything closed at midnight on Saturday night/Sunday morning. They padlocked and put brown paper on the doors of the coolers at the convenience store, even the 24 hour frozen drink stand was closed from Midnight Sunday to Midnight Monday.

[OU-HSV]

I didn't know there was wet/dry in Arkansas, I have only spent time in Little Rock and NWA and the areas that I was in were wet.
There are several. I used to run into them when I lived there. Saline was the closest dry one that effected me. I lived in Garland county.
There's a ton of "last chance" or "last stop" liquor stores in Arkiesaw.
Kentucky, Arkansas and Texas seem to lead the nation in dry counties (according to this website I found)

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/controversies/1140551076.html

[Sooner_Havok]

Thing is, it is never the T totaling baptists who oppose the changing of the state liqueur laws, it is the liqueur retailers. And it isn't because they don't want to have to put in coolers to stay competitive, it is because the know that allowing any retailer to sell full strength beer is one step closer to allowing grocery stores to be able to sell wine and spirits.

But, our "awesome" liqueur laws are what keep supermarket chains like Kroger, Piggly Wiggly, Whole Foods Market, Carrs, Tom Thumb, and H-E-B out of Oklahoma, drive away chains like Safeway, Food Lion, and Albertsons, and leave us with Wal Mart, Target, Homeland, and Williams.

I love the options we are left with, because they have no clue that they have us bent over backwards since no other supermarket chains will step foot in this state because of our archaic liqueur laws.

[Okla-homey]

Thing is, it is never the T totaling baptists who oppose the changing of the state liqueur laws, it is the liqueur retailers. And it isn't because they don't want to have to put in coolers to stay competitive, it is because the know that allowing any retailer to sell full strength beer is one step closer to allowing grocery stores to be able to sell wine and spirits.

But, our "awesome" liqueur laws are what keep supermarket chains like Kroger, Piggly Wiggly, Whole Foods Market, Carrs, Tom Thumb, and H-E-B out of Oklahoma, drive away chains like Safeway, Food Lion, and Albertsons, and leave us with Wal Mart, Target, Homeland, and Williams.

I love the options we are left with, because they have no clue that they have us bent over backwards since no other supermarket chains will step foot in this state because of our archaic liqueur laws.

Don't get me started. I would love to have a Publix or Kroger here in the Sooner State.

[Sooner_Havok]

Don't get me started. I would love to have a Publix or Kroger here in the Sooner State.

Why? Isn't homeland everything you ever wished for? :rolleyes:

[1stTimeCaller]

In my home county it was most definitely the "T totaling baptists" that opposed liquor by the drink.

[phead903]

In my home county it was most definitely the "T totaling baptists" that opposed liquor by the drink.

That's why there are drive-thru windows in liquor stores.