So how do you decline...

[LilSooner]

an invitation to go to church with someone with out offending them? In the last couple of months I have had a few old friends/customers invite Rhino and I to go to church with them.

The catch is that I am a church snob. I have VERY stong opinions about religion and I tend to get very offended when I go to to certain denominations.

I have also worked with all denominations and while obviously I don't know everything about every religion I have a fair amount of knowledge about most denominations. So basically how do I tell someone that there is no way in hell that I will go to their church because basically it's the devil with out completely hurting their feelings?


:pop:

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Just say thanks for the invitation and that you will keep them in mind.

Then don't go.

Edit: A friend of mine used to just tell people the denomination she would consider, but her husband is pretty hardcore in that denomination.

[sooner_born_1960]

Tell them; "There is no way in hell that I will go to your church because basically it's the devil." but put a :) smiley on it. That should let them know you mean no offense.

[yermom]

ask them about their Thetan levels

[Mjcpr]

Out

[Whet]

Thanks for the offer and I must decline.

[C&CDean]

an invitation to go to church with someone with out offending them? In the last couple of months I have had a few old friends/customers invite Rhino and I to go to church with them.

The catch is that I am a church snob. I have VERY stong opinions about religion and I tend to get very offended when I go to to certain denominations.

I have also worked with all denominations and while obviously I don't know everything about every religion I have a fair amount of knowledge about most denominations. So basically how do I tell someone that there is no way in hell that I will go to their church because basically it's the devil with out completely hurting their feelings?


:pop:

Now I'm curious. I want to know about your very strong opinions about religion.

And as for the whole invite to church thing I usually just say "no thanks."

[JohnnyMack]

Why do you hate Mitt Romney?

[LilSooner]

Now I'm curious. I want to know about your very strong opinions about religion.

And as for the whole invite to church thing I usually just say "no thanks."


Nah I'm not going to get into all of that because I don't want this thread locked down. I just get way offended when I hear pastors get liberal with God's word.

[JohnnyMack]

Lil is Amish.

Who knew?

[sooner_born_1960]

I hope this isn't about instrumental music.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

It depends on how they are asking. Tell them you appreciate them asking and if they continue to ask or want to know why you dont attend there, just say "It isn't for me." If thats not enough, just tell them whats on your mind.

As an associate pastor, I m constantly invited into other churches for which I give the first answer. If they keep it up after I think they should get the picture I m not gonna go, I tell them the 2nd answer. And then after that all hell breaks loose because I tell them their pastor grossly distorts the Bible.

[LilSooner]

Not Amish and it ain't about the music.

In another life I sold multimedia to churches. Now I have had an opportunity to visit those churches and see how damn distracting it is I really don't want to go to a church that uses multimedia.

[proud gonzo]

I usually respond to that with a big grin and "No thanks, I only go to church when they're paying me." People usually assume I'm joking...even though i'm not :D

[Sooner_Bob]

Not Amish and it ain't about the music.

In another life I sold multimedia to churches. Now I have had an opportunity to visit those churches and see how damn distracting it is I really don't want to go to a church that uses multimedia.


You think the use of multimedia in a church is distracting? Stuff like the words to songs on a screen or sermon points/notes on the screen?

You grew up in a small town Church of Christ like I did didn't you . . . :D


I actually enjoy the visuals. It seems to enrich my worship experience.



On to your question . . . if you already attend a church just tell them that. If not you guys really should be. :D

Since our move it's been tough for us to find a place to attend and the stress is definitely weighing us down. The faster you get back into a church the better IMO.

[Frozen Sooner]

I had a woman pester me for a good 15 minutes about attending her church's Easter Service. I kept telling her "No, thanks" and trying to politely decline.

Finally, I just told her I was Jewish and I thought the service would run over our victory parade.

[OU4LIFE]

ask them if you need to bring beer...that should do it.

[Frozen Sooner]

Seriously, though, it comes up a lot for me-people ask me to go to church with them all the time. Depending on my relationship with the person, I'll either accept and have a good time singing or whatever or decline politely by saying "Thank you, and I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to have to decline."

[sooner_born_1960]

Unless it's a Catholic church.
This reply was meant to be right below OU4LIFE's but, no, Mike had to get in the way.

[sooner_born_1960]

If they're inviting you to lifechurch.tv, just giggle and walk away.

[Frozen Sooner]

Unless it's a Catholic church.
This reply was meant to be right below OU4LIFE's but, no, Mike had to get in the way.

I'm just a big ruiner.

It's what I do.

I ruin.

[LilSooner]

I hate sermon notes, I hate the crossword puzzles, and the fill in the blanks thingys that they give you to fill out during the sermons. Listen, I came to worship the little baby jesus not to kill the environment by filling out some useless piece of crap.

Most of the churches that use the multimedia use it WRONG. Seriously, they try to use it too much and inevitably Jim Bob in the back stops paying attention to what he is doing and gets behind on changing the slides.

Bad, bad, bad.

[LilSooner]

If they're inviting you to lifechurch.tv, just giggle and walk away.


giggle.

[Hamhock]

I hate the crossword puzzles


churches don't really do that.

do they?

[sooner_born_1960]

giggle.
I guessed because what little I've seen reminds me of the light show and pyrotechnics of a rock concert.

[LilSooner]

churches don't really do that.

do they?


yes.

[Hot Rod]

churches don't really do that.

do they?

"pssst...What did you get for 3 down?"

[sooner_born_1960]

yes.
In our church, they give the sermon crosswords to the kids. I've always wanted to compete the crossword and yell "bingo" when I finished before the sermon was over.

[LilSooner]

In our church, they give the sermon crosswords to the kids. I've always wanted to compete the crossword and yell "bingo" when I finished before the sermon was over.


My poor grandpa God bless him annoys the **** out of me and my grandma with those stupid things. I seriously won't go to church with any more A) because he church is the devil and B) because they do stupid cross words and he asks me all the time what 3 down is.

[Frozen Sooner]

I always have a good time at the revival-style multimedia-using churches.

[sooner_born_1960]

I always have a good time at the revival-style multimedia-using churches.
shuddup. Ruiner.

[Frozen Sooner]

But I DO!

It's a good time.

[Frozen Sooner]

Don't get me wrong: it's not as good a time as sleeping in or watching football on a Sunday, but if a friend invites me I'll generally go and I try to enjoy myself.

Plus, lots of hot earnest young ladies.

[BigRedJed]

Who's Earnest?

[JohnnyMack]

Apparently Froz has a thing for Ernest Borgnine.

[BigRedJed]

Or Ernest Worrell.

[Frozen Sooner]

Or Ernest Worrell.

Eggs Erroneous.

[LilSooner]

Eggs Erroneous.


I freaking loved that movie growing up!

[soonerbrat]

crossword puzzles, fill in the blanks and multimedia? where are these people going?

[Harry Beanbag]

I would have no problem telling them I'll probably be too hungover after Saturday night.

[Oldnslo]

FWIW, sometimes telling a True Believer that you're Jewish is the 100% absolute wrong thing to do. It's almost as if they get extra points for bringing in a real-life heeb.

Please understand, I know that to some, they're merely doing what they feel is right in spreading the Word.

But, see, we've got our own deal going. Thanks.

Anyway, a simple but firm and unwavering, "No. Thanks." should work. If not, feign possession.

[OU4LIFE]

I came to worship the little baby jesus

8 pound 6 ounce baby Jesus?

[Frozen Sooner]

FWIW, sometimes telling a True Believer that you're Jewish is the 100% absolute wrong thing to do. It's almost as if they get extra points for bringing in a real-life heeb.

Please understand, I know that to some, they're merely doing what they feel is right in spreading the Word.

But, see, we've got our own deal going. Thanks.

Anyway, a simple but firm and unwavering, "No. Thanks." should work. If not, feign possession.

Well, I figured the bit about the victory parade was enough to tell her that I wasn't really Jewish, I just didn't want to be bothered.

Trust me, when you tell them you're an atheist, it's like detaching a remora.

[Hamhock]

crossword puzzles, fill in the blanks and multimedia? where are these people going?


i saw a banner for lifechurch. I see that they are shying away from terms like "worship". They call their services "experience times".

anyone with a sincere desire to learn about the "user friendly" environment churchs are trying to create shoudl read Ashamed of the Gospel by John Macarthur

[yermom]

i get this occasionally, and i try to be polite.

which is hard since i'd rather hit myself in the head with a hammer than go to a church on Sunday morning

[Condescending Sooner]

hell, ****, damn
:pop:


Sounds to me like you need all the churchin you can get.

[crawfish]

I do agree that the use of multimedia can be distracting. I think it enhances the service when it's used wisely - such as, it is used as an intro to a sermon, for instance.

Also, lil, the crossword puzzles are for the kids. Just because you're the size of one doesn't mean you can act like one. :rolleyes: ;)

[crawfish]

i get this occasionally, and i try to be polite.

which is hard since i'd rather hit myself in the head with a hammer than go to a church on Sunday morning

Would you like to visit my church next Sunday?

Either way, I'll be satisfied. ;)

[LilSooner]

I do agree that the use of multimedia can be distracting. I think it enhances the service when it's used wisely - such as, it is used as an intro to a sermon, for instance.

Also, lil, the crossword puzzles are for the kids. Just because you're the size of one doesn't mean you can act like one. :rolleyes: ;)


I agree but unfortunately it's doesn't always work like that.

And if it were for the childrens why do they give them to the old farts?

[yermom]

Would you like to visit my church next Sunday?

Either way, I'll be satisfied. ;)

the hammer is just higher on the list :D

the regularly scheduled quality time with my blanket and pillow generally tops the list

[Frozen Sooner]

I agree but unfortunately it's doesn't always work like that.

And if it were for the childrens why do they give them to the old farts?

You're not THAT old, Lil.

They probably just figured that since you shopped in the Little Miss's section that you were age-appropriate for the crosswords.

(runs and hides shins.)

[Mjcpr]

And if it were for the childrens why do they give them to the old farts?

You are asking one of the oldest, fartiest posters on all of SF.

:D

[Scott D]

i get this occasionally, and i try to be polite.

which is hard since i'd rather hit myself in the head with a hammer than wake up and get out of bed before Sunday evening

fixed :D

[Harry Beanbag]

the hammer is just higher on the list :D

the regularly scheduled quality time with my blanket and pillow generally tops the list


See, if they handed out blankets and pillows instead of crosswords, I'd be more inclined to go. :)

[Sooner_Bob]

I hate sermon notes, I hate the crossword puzzles, and the fill in the blanks thingys that they give you to fill out during the sermons. Listen, I came to worship the little baby jesus not to kill the environment by filling out some useless piece of crap.

Most of the churches that use the multimedia use it WRONG. Seriously, they try to use it too much and inevitably Jim Bob in the back stops paying attention to what he is doing and gets behind on changing the slides.

Bad, bad, bad.


If you're paying attention it shouldn't matter . . . :P

[Sooner_Bob]

churches don't really do that.

do they?


Maybe in the kids classes.:rolleyes:

[Scott D]

I told Sooner Bob that I had a hernia operation scheduled for that Sunday. He said he understood.

I went out and played soccer with some arab dudes at the park though

[Sooner_Bob]

you missed a good message

[Scott D]

yeah but I scored a sweet goal. so it was totally worth it.

[yermom]

fixed :D

that's part of it :D

[swardboy]

"Do not neglect the assembling of yourselves together, as the habit of some is...." Hebrews 10:25...or close to there.

[yermom]

"Leave me alone, I'm sleeping." - Yermom 3:16

;)

[Scott D]

"I scored a sweet goal, God approved with a ray of sunlight" ScottD 12:17

[Frozen Sooner]

"Come to church to see hawt chicks all dressed up and looking serious."-Mike 3:16 just whupped your ***!

[LilSooner]

BEST THREAD EVER!

[Zbird]

Not Amish and it ain't about the music.

In another life I sold multimedia to churches. Now I have had an opportunity to visit those churches and see how damn distracting it is I really don't want to go to a church that uses multimedia.

Hmmmmm.

Well you could just say that Tom & Katie wouldn't approve.

[usmc-sooner]

Tell them Rhino is involved in the "devils music" known as rock.

[Viking Kitten]

I've solved this problem by mainly hanging out with drunks and lowlifes. They tend not to harass you about church too often.

[Frozen Sooner]

I've solved this problem by mainly hanging out with drunks and lowlifes. They tend not to harass you about church too often.

You're obviously hanging out with the wrong drunks and lowlifes.

[Zbird]

I agree but unfortunately it's doesn't always work like that.

And if it were for the childrens why do they give them to the old farts?

Speaking of which, just tell them that you can't go, because after all the beer, chili, cabbage and boiled eggs on Saturday, Rhino would clear 4 or 5 pews around you with his pew and you'd be too embarrassed. :D

[olevetonahill]

Whats with all the Debate
Just gently tell them
**** off dip ****

[Viking Kitten]

You're obviously hanging out with the wrong drunks and lowlifes.

DON'T YOU JUDGE ME!

[Zbird]

Or, you could tell them you were having your scientology mentor over to pass you on to your next level of clear.

Or.... that you had a small animal sacrifice and dismemberment planned, and if they'd like to join you, you'd save them a cup of blood.

:pop:

[usmc-sooner]

I don't know what denomination it was, the ones that come by your house and do not take no for an answer, but they caught me outside one day and they talked my freakin ear off. I went and got a beer and drank two beers while they talked.

They'd tell me something, and I'd be like does the Bible say that, they'd say yes right here and they'd pull another book, and I would say that's not the Bible

[LilSooner]

"Come to church to see hawt chicks all dressed up and looking serious."-Mike 3:16 just whupped your ***!

I want my own verse! But I'm not creative :mad:

[Frozen Sooner]

"Yea, and the shins of the wicked were smote."-Lil 22:18

[Hamhock]

I want my own verse! But I'm not creative :mad:


I secretly desire Hamhock. Lilsooner 2:25

[usmc-sooner]

and behold I looked in the sky, and saw a rider on a pale horse, the rider's name was death, and Lil Sooner followed after,....Revalations

[stoops the eternal pimp]

We use multimedia for the songs, bible verses and a little video every now and again but not much more.

[LilSooner]

Yes! Yes! YES!

Loves it!!!!1!

[usmc-sooner]

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am Lil Sooner when I lay my vengeance upon you.

[Frozen Sooner]

"Bald men=sexy sexy time"-Lil 19:45

[usmc-sooner]

the angel appeared before the wise men and told them of Lil Sooner, one brought frankensense, the other bought myrh, but the wisest was Rhino he brought the gold, he got the girl.

[M]

I've solved this problem by mainly hanging out with drunks and lowlifes. They tend not to harass you about church too often.

I don't know whether this comment should offend me or make me proud in some twisted, kinky way.

[LilSooner]

the angel appeared before the wise men and told them of Lil Sooner, one brought frankensense, the other bought myrh, but the wisest was Rhino he brought the platinum, he got the girl.


Fixed.

[BigRedJed]

I don't know what denomination it was, the ones that come by your house and do not take no for an answer, but they caught me outside one day and they talked my freakin ear off. I went and got a beer and drank two beers while they talked.

They'd tell me something, and I'd be like does the Bible say that, they'd say yes right here and they'd pull another book, and I would say that's not the Bible
Probably LDS. They tend to refer more to the Book of Mormon than the Bible, much in the way Christians rely more on the New Testament (Jesus' teachings) than the Old. It's one of the reasons a lot of people are confused and think Mormons are not Christians, because they rely so heavily on Joseph Smith's writing. They view the Book of Mormon as an extension of the Bible, like a third testament.

Jews kick it really old school and refer primarily to the Torah, considered to be the writings of Moses, which more or less makes up the first five books of what Christians call the Christian Old Testament.

But if the people you were talking to rocked pure biblical scripture, they were probably Jehovah's Witnesses. They do use a number of books and periodicals put out by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, but they're ALWAYS based on their interpretation of scripture. They can generally slice and dice with the Bible. They do mostly work from their own (New World) translation, but can usually work just as effectively with a King James or American Standard version. Unless you went to divinity school, you're better off not trying to out-scripture a JW. Better to try and out-dogma.

[Hamhock]

We use multimedia for the songs, bible verses and a little video every now and again but not much more.


see, i thought you were supposed to use the Bible for Bible verses.

[M]

I met some Jehovah's Witnesses at a train station in Korea. I should've known they were up to something since they spoke English really well and they were so willing to talk to me.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

see, i thought you were supposed to use the Bible for Bible verses.


Lots of people don't bring their bibles to church so we put it on a screen..I may put up some of the verses in this thread next Sunday

[usmc-sooner]

Probably LDS. They tend to refer more to the Book of Mormon than the Bible, much in the way Christians rely more on the New Testament (Jesus' teachings) than the Old. It's one of the reasons a lot of people are confused and think Mormons are not Christians, because they rely so heavily on Joseph Smith's writing. They view the Book of Mormon as an extension of the bible, like a third testament.

Jews kick it really old school and refer primarily to the Torah, considered to be the writings of Moses, which more or less makes up the first five books of what Christians call the Christian Old Testament.

But if the people you were talking to rocked pure Biblical scripture, they were probably Jehovah's Witnesses. They do use a number of books and periodicals put out by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, but they're ALWAYS based on their interpretation of scripture. They can generally slice and dice with the Bible. They do generally work from their own (New World) translation, but can usually work just as effectively with a King James or American Standard version. Unless you went to divinity school, you're better off not trying to out-scripture a JW. Better to try and out-dogma.

the Watchtower thing sounds vaguely familiar, I do know that I was thinking these people must have been to some sort of training cause they had an answer and scripture for everything. One thing that I do remember is they kept telling me that Jesus went to Hell for a certain period of time. I just said I can't buy into that. Other than that they were really nice and polite even when I could tell they were getting frustrated with me.

[Mjcpr]

O God, ease our suffering in this, our moment of great dispair. Yea, admit this kind and decent woman into thy arms of thine heavenly area, up there. And Moab, he lay us upon the band of the Canaanites, and yea, though the Hindus speak of karma, I implore you: give her a break.

[Mjcpr]

the Watchtower thing sounds vaguely familiar,
It's Hendrix, Jimi.

[usmc-sooner]

O God, ease our suffering in this, our moment of great dispair. Yea, admit this kind and decent woman into thy arms of thine heavenly area, up there. And Moab, he lay us upon the band of the Canaanites, and yea, though the Hindus speak of karma, I implore you: give her a break.


Holliday roads, Holliday roads

[Hamhock]

Lots of people don't bring their bibles to church so we put it on a screen..


isn't that sort of like going to the course without your clubs?

[BigRedJed]

...Other than that they were really nice and polite even when I could tell they were getting frustrated with me...
Sounds a LOT like Jehovah's Witnesses. Or, frankly, Mormons. They both have lots of training, and are honestly trying to save you, so they have the patience of Job.

...One thing that I do remember is they kept telling me that Jesus went to Hell for a certain period of time. I just said I can't buy into that...
Doesn't sound so much like JWs. They don't believe in the typical Christian concept of Hell, AT ALL. However, they do believe that Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days, fasted and suffered, and was tempted/taunted by Satan the entire time. So maybe they were trying to tell you about that, and just didn't communicate it well. Or maybe it was the two beers. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

my opinion is that you either want to go to church or you dont, and if you do - the distractions wont keep you from going

this past summer, while visiting the in-laws in nebraska, my sister in law who is a bonified jesus freak - went out on the front porch and dueled "bible talk" for over an hour with the LDS guys who were out pounding on doors. i dont think they expected the "debate" they got

[BigRedJed]

Nah, they expect it.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Sunday Morning, I m gonna put this up before service starts..

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5228/yermomku2.png

[BigRedJed]

And JK, I'm not saying that in a "don't flatter yourself" kindof way, I'm just saying they get it all the time. I've debated at length with them myself.

[yermom]

Doesn't sound so much like JWs. They don't believe in the typical Christian concept of Hell, AT ALL. However, they do believe that Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days, fasted and suffered, and was tempted/taunted by Satan the entire time. So maybe they were trying to tell you about that, and just didn't communicate it well. Or maybe it was the two beers. ;)

nope. Jesus was pretty much in "hell" or "hades" or "sheol" until Easter or whatever.

they believe he was in the same place everyone else goes, just that there is no fire and brimstone or whatever

[BigRedJed]

nope. Jesus was pretty much in "hell" or "hades" or "sheol" until Easter or whatever.

they believe he was in the same place everyone else goes, just that there is no fire and brimstone or whatever
The wilderness thing I was talking about was before he was crucified, or even outed himself as the Messiah.

When he died, they believe that he never again took truly human form in the manner in which we all think of as being "human." Rather, that he was a spirit, divorced from flesh and blood, although he "materialized" to speak to appear to his followers. According to their belief system, he was a different type of being than we are, anyway. They don't believe that actual humans have an everlasting "soul" like most Christians, but rather that you more or less cease to exist when you die, and that the only eternal damnation is to never again exist.

[BigRedJed]

The concept of "hell" or "hades" in their interpretation is more of a non-place than a place.

[usmc-sooner]

I took some Bible classess in college, one of my professors told us that a lot of Bible experts believe that what we now believe as Hell was a Hebrew word that described the pit they burned dead bodies for sanitary purposes.

[yermom]

Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna)

[Frozen Sooner]

I had a woman pester me for a good 15 minutes about attending her church's Easter Service. I kept telling her "No, thanks" and trying to politely decline.

Finally, I just told her I was Jewish and I thought the service would run over our victory parade.

On review, this may be the most awful thing I've ever posted.

[proud gonzo]

Lots of people don't bring their bibles to church so we put it on a screen..I may put up some of the verses in this thread next Sundaysee, and that's what I thought stained glass windows were for.

[Hamhock]

On review, this may be the most awful thing I've ever posted.


you should ban yourself

[usmc-sooner]

Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna)

you sir, are good

[GottaHavePride]

I either give them a line like "how much does the service pay? Wait, that was the per-hour rate, right? Do you want a quintet or a quartet? Strings or brass? Solo? Anthem-only or anthem and hymns? Contemporary services are extra, the drummer's got a lot of equipment to shift."

Or I tell them I'm a Taoist. Not entirely accurate, but close enough, and most of them don't know what that means.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Or I tell them I'm a Taoist.

People around here would think you had a foot fetish

[Blue]

I believe hell is a real place. Jesus talked about it more than Heaven. The pit, Sheol, etc...is a place. If God is a truly righteous judge, I believe there would have to be a place of separation from him in the afterlife reserved for those that rejected him. I believe JW's completely twist scripture. (They are not the 144,000 prophets of the end times they claim to be). God's chosen people are still the Jews.

Jesus did descend into hell after the crucifixtion to preach to the lost saints before he ascended to heaven.

IMO. :)

[proud gonzo]

I either give them a line like "how much does the service pay? Wait, that was the per-hour rate, right? Do you want a quintet or a quartet? Strings or brass? Solo? Anthem-only or anthem and hymns? Contemporary services are extra, the drummer's got a lot of equipment to shift."

Or I tell them I'm a Taoist. Not entirely accurate, but close enough, and most of them don't know what that means.you could tell them you're a craphead. I bet they'd know what that means.

[Frozen Sooner]

God's chosen people are still the Jews.

I'm pretty sure that's incorrect from a KJ Bible view of things. The chosen are those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and forgiven their sins.

Edit: there it is. Galatians 3:28-29

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

[Blue]

Oh and to the question of the thread. Tell them, "I appreciate the invite and I'll take a rain check."

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I ve always thought God is a little partial to the Norwegians

[Blue]

I'm pretty sure that's incorrect from a KJ Bible view of things. The chosen are those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and forgiven their sins.

The gentiles can be saved, but The Jews are still the purpose of prophecy yet to be fulfilled.

[usmc-sooner]

act like you have Torret's Syndrome and just start shouting out cusswords like you are Too Short himself

[usmc-sooner]

Finally, I just told her I was Jewish and I thought the service would run over our victory parade.

I would have looked at you and then screamed YOU PEOPLE KILLED CHRIST!!!!!!!!!

then I'd wait and be like ah man I was just kiddin

[Frozen Sooner]

I would have looked at you and then screamed YOU PEOPLE KILLED CHRIST!!!!!!!!!


See, that's when I'd have thrown up both hands with the "V" for victory sign and run around with the Notre Dame fight song playing.

[usmc-sooner]

See, that's when I'd have thrown up both hands with the "V" for victory sign and run around with the Notre Dame fight song playing.


I would have LMAO, that would truly be hilarious

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Mike, your my favorite atheist.

[Viking Kitten]

...run around with the Notre Dame fight song playing.
Please think about whether the Notre Dame fight song would really be appropriate in that situation and get back to me.

[BigRedJed]

I believe hell is a real place. Jesus talked about it more than Heaven. The pit, Sheol, etc...is a place. If God is a truly righteous judge, I believe there would have to be a place of separation from him in the afterlife reserved for those that rejected him. I believe JW's completely twist scripture. (They are not the 144,000 prophets of the end times they claim to be). God's chosen people are still the Jews.

Jesus did descend into hell after the crucifixtion to preach to the lost saints before he ascended to heaven.

IMO. :)
I don't disagree that JWs twist scripture to fit their purposes (like most religions do, to be fair), but the 144,000 thing is a common, gross misinterpretation of what they teach. They teach that only 144,000 people will end up in Heaven, true, but those people come from throughout the ages, people who had a "different" connection to God during their lives.

These people would then serve as intermediaries, go-betweens communicating between God and the righteous, who they believe will poplulate a paradise earth. They think that God's original purpose was for humans to live forever on an idyllic Earth, and that he will restore it to that purpose.

They believe that he never intended Heaven to be the reward for humans, who he designed the Earth for.

They also believe that since his purpose for humans was to serve him on a paradise Earth, it also was never a design of his to have a place of punishment for wrongdoers. They feel that if you don't accept him and his will you will simply cease to exist. It might be a bloody, painful exit, depending upon the circumstances, but you won't be tortured in Hell forever after.

[Sooner_Bob]

Best religion thread evar.

God Bless Us Everyone.

[Frozen Sooner]

Please think about whether the Notre Dame fight song would really be appropriate in that situation and get back to me.

Yeah, that was kind of the joke

[Frozen Sooner]

Mike, your my favorite atheist.

Hopefully I amuse. :D

[Blue]

I don't disagree that JWs twist scripture to fit their purposes (like most religions do, to be fair), but the 144,000 thing is a common, gross misinterpretation of what they teach. They teach that only 144,000 people will end up in Heaven, true, but those people come from throughout the ages, people who had a "different" connection to God during their lives.

These people would then serve as intermediaries, go-betweens communicating between God and the righteous, who they believe will poplulate a paradise earth. They think that God's original purpose was for humans to live forever on an idyllic Earth, and that he will restore it to that purpose.

They believe that he never intended Heaven to be the reward for humans, who he designed the Earth for.

They also believe that since his purpose for humans was to serve him on a paradise Earth, it also was never a design of his to have a place of punishment for wrongdoers. They feel that if you don't accept him and his will you will simply cease to exist. It might be a bloody, painful exit, depending upon the circumstances, but you won't be tortured in Hell forever after.

Well that all great and good but where in scripture does it say any of that?

It's a cult if you ask me.

[Hamhock]

I don't disagree that JWs twist scripture to fit their purposes (like most religions do, to be fair), but the 144,000 thing is a common, gross misinterpretation of what they teach. They teach that only 144,000 people will end up in Heaven, true, but those people come from throughout the ages, people who had a "different" connection to God during their lives.

These people would then serve as intermediaries, go-betweens communicating between God and the righteous, who they believe will poplulate a paradise earth. They think that God's original purpose was for humans to live forever on an idyllic Earth, and that he will restore it to that purpose.

They believe that he never intended Heaven to be the reward for humans, who he designed the Earth for.

They also believe that since his purpose for humans was to serve him on a paradise Earth, it also was never a design of his to have a place of punishment for wrongdoers. They feel that if you don't accept him and his will you will simply cease to exist. It might be a bloody, painful exit, depending upon the circumstances, but you won't be tortured in Hell forever after.

didn't they have to amend their teachings in the mid 1900s because this number was reached?

[soonerbrat]

I don't know whether this comment should offend me or make me proud in some twisted, kinky way.



heathen!

[Viking Kitten]

Yeah, that was kind of the joke

The funniest jokes are the ones you have to qualify.

[BigRedJed]

didn't they have to amend their teachings in the mid 1900s because this number was reached?
That I don't know, and I'm also not going to cite scripture to support their beliefs, 'cause I'm not one of them. I grew up Methodist, but some close family and my very best friend -- edit: when I was a kid --, among other friends, was one. I attended many, many of their services and Bible studies as a kid.

I haven't been around it since the '80s, though.

[BigRedJed]

I will say this, they're typically some of the most honest people you'll ever meet. They take "thou shalt not steal," and "thou shalt not bear false witness," and "thou shalt not covet..." really ****ing seriously.

[LilSooner]

This was an awesome thread before you guys got all serious and stuff.

[BigRedJed]

sorry Lil.

[Blue]

I will say this, they're typically some of the most honest people you'll ever meet. They take "thou shalt not steal," and "thou shalt not bear false witness," and "thou shalt not covet..." really ****ing seriously.

I'm not going to say they aren't saved because I don't know enough about them, but you can't be saved by works alone.

My buddy was going to their studies for awhile and now he's becoming Catholic. He still doesn't believe in Hell. Those beliefs are dangerous, IMO.

[soonerbrat]

so which ones are the ones that leave the little pamphlets around saying that all Catholics are going to hell?

[Blue]

sorry. :O

How about a Chris Berman come-on? Doosh-tastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkI9wgrgTOU

[Frozen Sooner]

So, to answer the original question:

You offer an invitation to church.
He, she, it offer an invitation to church.
They offer an invitation to church.

Boy, that one is pretty regular. Why did you need help again?

[usmc-sooner]

I will say this, they're typically some of the most honest people you'll ever meet. They take "thou shalt not steal," and "thou shalt not bear false witness," and "thou shalt not covet..." really ****ing seriously.

that's an observation I have made about Mormans every one of them I have known have been really good people. I haven't known a bunch but a few and they were good people. I can't believe they will fry in hell. One of my Captains in the USMC was Morman, I had a lot of respect for him, good man. I'd go to bat for him any time any place.

[Frozen Sooner]

so which ones are the ones that leave the little pamphlets around saying that all Catholics are going to hell?

That's actually me.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

WHile he runs in a circle with the ND song playing in the background

[LilSooner]

so which ones are the ones that leave the little pamphlets around saying that all Catholics are going to hell?


I am seriously weird because I have secretly wanted to become Catholic since high school. I have never felt more at home than when I was at mass. Also, the only time I have ever been brought to tears in a church was during mass.

[BigRedJed]

I'm not going to say they aren't saved because I don't know enough about them, but you can't be saved by works alone.

My buddy was going to their studies for awhile and now he's becoming Catholic. He still doesn't believe in Hell. Those beliefs are dangerous, IMO.
Well, here I said that I won't cite scripture, but they're REALLY hung up on James 2:20 "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" (American Standard)

They feel far differently than most Christians, that is, they think simply believing is far from enough. THAT is why they knock on your door when you're trying to sleep on Saturday mornings.

[M]

I am seriously weird because I have secretly wanted to become Catholic since high school. I have never felt more at home than when I was at mass. Also, the only time I have ever been brought to tears in a church was during mass.

Catholic school girls ROCK ;)

[Blue]

Your faith will automatically produce fruit (works) by way of the Holy Spirit if you truly believe, IMO.

[soonerbrat]

Catholic school girls ROCK ;)



yes they do!!!!

:D

[BigRedJed]

that's an observation I have made about Mormans every one of them I have known have been really good people. I haven't known a bunch but a few and they were good people. I can't believe they will fry in hell. One of my Captains in the USMC was Morman, I had a lot of respect for him, good man. I'd go to bat for him any time any place.
We might not get there the exact same way, but that's pretty much how I feel. IMO, if there is a just God, wouldn't he want to provide all livers of a moral and good life an opportunity to be saved? So, while I can see why someone who was exposed to Christianity and rejected it being therefore rejected by him, what about the hundreds of millions who never had a chance to grow up in that belief system but nevertheless worked to make the world a better place when they left it? I believe that if there is a God, he would give those people a chance.

The only idea I reject is that one belief system is a guaranteed ticket to Nirvana and everyone else gets burned alive for eternity.

[usmc-sooner]

I grew up in a protestant church, but I like going to Catholic Mass

[BigRedJed]

Your faith will automatically produce fruit (works) by way of the Holy Spirit if you truly believe, IMO.
Well, that sure is easy. I won't even have to break a sweat. Where do I sign up? :D

[LilSooner]

Finally, a potential convert. My daughter teaches CCD; she can link you up.

My dad and my step mom are both catholic, but I was raised Methodist. So I kindof consider my self a little catholic anyways.

[Blue]

By accepting Christ and being baptized in the spirit the Holy Spirit then lives within you. He changes and guides you. He wouldn't steer you wrong.

Very simple.

[soonerbrat]

Protestants protest. They don't reject. They're just Catholics who wanted a couple changes.



and now some of them say that Catholics aren't Christians :confused:

[sooner_born_1960]

only 144,000*



*MOL, adjusted for inflation. Your mileage may vary.

[sanantoniosooner]

I'd be careful giving blanket statement about any denominations.

Each has a core belief they should adhere to, but after that they all can develop individual personalities. If the core beliefs is your problem, then it's not for you. But if you just visited one and didn't like it, the other one across town may be totally different.

To the original question. Just tell them you'll let them know when you want to visit.

[usmc-sooner]

We might not get there the exact same way, but that's pretty much how I feel. IMO, if there is a just God, wouldn't he want to provide all livers of a moral and good life an opportunity to be saved? So, while I can see why someone who was exposed to Christianity and rejected it being therefore rejected by him, what about the hundreds of millions who never had a chance to grow up in that belief system but nevertheless worked to make the world a better place when they left it? I believe that if there is a God, he would give those people a chance.

The only idea I reject is that one belief system is a guaranteed ticket to Nirvana and everyone else gets burned alive for eternity.

that's kinda my big question, I can see serial killers, rapists, and any scum who would dare do harm to a child, but is Ghandi going to burn in Hell? I sure don't have the answers but I wouldn't think so.

[usmc-sooner]

and now some of them say that Catholics aren't Christians :confused:

Aren't Catholics the orignial Christians?

[soonerbrat]

Aren't Catholics the orignial Christians?



yep.

[Blue]

The only idea I reject is that one belief system is a guaranteed ticket to Nirvana and everyone else gets burned alive for eternity.

It might not fit our minds but I can't go against Jesus. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the father lest through me."

He works in ways we don't understand.

[swardboy]

Aren't Catholics the orignial Christians?

No, Constantine rigged it up early in the 4th century A.D. It's just imperial Rome in religious garb....instead of Caesar you have Pope.

The original Christians were busy being covered in pitch and lit up as garden torch lights for Nero's garden parties.

[usmc-sooner]

It might not fit our minds but I can't go against Jesus. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No one comes to the father lest through me."

He works in ways we don't understand.

I grew up in an Indian community (feather) some of my ancestors never heard the word of God, do they go to hell?

[JohnnyMack]

If I was gonna get into a Religion, I'd definitely do Catholicism. It has by far the coolest churches. Most of them are all old and big and creepy and dark and like being in the middle of a Dan Brown novel. I like that stuff. That and those mega-churches redefine ghey.

[royalfan5]

I've always been of the theory that everyone will turn up somewhat surprised in the end. I fully expect my first thought in the afterlife to be "No ****, that's how it is?"

[M]

Aren't Catholics the orignial Christians?

Yes, as you can trace its history of unbroken succession from St. Peter the Apostle to Pope Benedict XVI of today.

[LilSooner]

Have you guys ever played the telephone game?

Yeah I think religion is a lot like that. Only some people get the message royally screwed up.

[soonerbrat]

If I was gonna get into a Religion, I'd definitely do Catholicism. It has by far the coolest churches. Most of them are all old and big and creepy and dark and like being in the middle of a Dan Brown novel. I like that stuff. That and those mega-churches redefine ghey.

and they have stuff like this in the basement

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/soonerbrat/italy/bones.jpg

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I've never been to Catholic Mass, but I've been to a few Catholic weddings. I've been to the Episcopalian church quite a bit. I understand it's a lot like Catholic, minus the Latin.

[sooner_born_1960]

THat's not for public consumption.

This post was in response to brat, two above.

[M]

I've never been to Catholic Mass, but I've been to a few Catholic weddings. I've been to the Episcopalian church quite a bit. I understand it's a lot like Catholic, minus the Latin.

Very few Catholic churches these days say Mass in Latin.

[Frozen Sooner]

Catholics don't do the whole Latin mass thing anymore unless they want to.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I need to go to Mass sometime. I've just never gone. I did have two nuns for elementary school teachers in public school though.

[sanantoniosooner]

I've never been to Catholic Mass, but I've been to a few Catholic weddings. I've been to the Episcopalian church quite a bit. I understand it's a lot like Catholic, minus the Latin.
Really it's like Catholic minus the Pope.

[soonerbrat]

I've never been to Catholic Mass, but I've been to a few Catholic weddings. I've been to the Episcopalian church quite a bit. I understand it's a lot like Catholic, minus the Latin.


Catholic lite. i think the only times I've heard Latin at Mass are near Easter or Christmas or in songs.

[Frozen Sooner]

Very few Catholic churches these days say Mass in Latin.

Jinx. Buy me a Coke.

[soonerbrat]

I need to go to Mass sometime. I've just never gone. I did have two nuns for elementary school teachers in public school though.


you can come with me sometime. i go occasionally when one of the kids has something special or they guilt me into going.

[proud gonzo]

you know, I'd go to church if we had one that looks like this.

http://www.cs.wright.edu/~tkprasad/courses/cs884/chartres.jpg

[Viking Kitten]

I haz been there.

[Blue]

I grew up in an Indian community (feather) some of my ancestors never heard the word of God, do they go to hell?

Sorry if I was acting like I'm an authority on the subject. According to the verse above, I would have to say Yes. Good thing I'm not the judge though. Whose to say they never heard it? I don't pretend to think I know his ways of dealing with each individual person. All I can do is read the word and live according to it the best way my little mind knows how.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[M]

Jinx. Buy me a Crown & Coke.

Fixed.

We ARE talking about Catholics, ya know. ;)

[Viking Kitten]

The inside view:

http://www.labyrinth-enterprises.com/jpeg250.jpg

[proud gonzo]

I haz been there.ditto. It's perdy.

[GottaHavePride]

Aren't Catholics the orignial Christians?

Heh. Reminds me of a girl in high school, we were in world history and were coverin that timeframe. all of a sudden she gets this indignant look on her face andblurts at the teacher "Do you mean to tell me the first Christians were Catholics?"

The teacher pauses and says "Yes."

The girl, in an even more agitated manner, says "So you're telling me Jesus was a Catholic??!!?"

The teacher says "No! Jesus was a Jew!"

[Viking Kitten]

ditto. It's perdy.

The whole town is perdy. Did you get the Malcolm Miller tour of the cathedral?

[bluedogok]

If I was gonna get into a Religion, I'd definitely do Catholicism. It has by far the coolest churches. Most of them are all old and big and creepy and dark and like being in the middle of a Dan Brown novel. I like that stuff. That and those mega-churches redefine ghey.
The Roman Catholic Church is the "original" mega-church, don't let the different names of the buildings fool you. They have the same leadership, the same doctrine, the same message the world over...how is that not a mega-church? I do have to agree, their older buildings are tremendous, the new ones not so much. I did have one project with the OKC Archdiocese, a youth camp NE of Luther and I liked working with Archbishop Beltran. The Catholic Church is a bit too "traditional" for me but I can see how many appreciate it.

I went to Life Church until I moved to Austin in 2003, we still sometimes go to a service when we are back in OKC and it has changed quite a bit since then. My wife grew up going to her Grandfather's Hispanic Baptist Church and is a member of a traditional Baptist Church here, she liked the service at Life. But it doesn't seem like the same church anymore, much like when Belle Isle moved out and became Crossings. It is just too big, too much now, I preferred it when it was a smaller church. We attend a Baptist Church here that reminds me of what Life Church was like years ago when they first moved out to the Edmond Rd & Penn location.

[Frozen Sooner]

Heh. Reminds me of a girl in high school, we were in world history and were coverin that timeframe. all of a sudden she gets this indignant look on her face andblurts at the teacher "Do you mean to tell me the first Christians were Catholics?"

The teacher pauses and says "Yes."

The girl, in an even more agitated manner, says "So you're telling me Jesus was a Catholic??!!?"

The teacher says "No! Jesus was a Jew!"

"V" for victory dance!!!!!

[soonerbrat]

Fixed.

We ARE talking about Catholics, ya know. ;)



i prefer rum & coke....or vodka and sprite...or vodka and cranberry...

mmmm....vodka.

[SOONER STEAKER]

If it's a Sunday service, tell them you went to service on Saturday.

[GottaHavePride]

If I was Christian, I'd be Catholic. They're the oldest of the old-school. There's something to be said for tradition that stretches back over 1,000 years.

It's the same reason OU pwns Miami.

[royalfan5]

If I was Christian, I'd be Catholic. They're the oldest of the old-school. There's something to be said for tradition that stretches back over 1,000 years.

It's the same reason OU pwns Miami.
Meh, I'd rather follow a Monk that was willing to declare he was standing somewhere, and wasn't afraid to nail his thoughts to doors.

[usmc-sooner]

Sorry if I was acting like I'm an authority on the subject. According to the verse above, I would have to say Yes. Good thing I'm not the judge though. Whose to say they never heard it? I don't pretend to think I know his ways of dealing with each individual person. All I can do is read the word and live according to it the best way my little mind knows how.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

you didn't offend me it's just one of those things I've always thought of. I also used to wonder about slavery, Is that wrong in the eyes of God? It was a pretty common practice back then. I guess I have more questions than I have answers.

[Frozen Sooner]

Meh, I'd rather follow a Monk that was willing to declare he was standing somewhere, and wasn't afraid to nail his thoughts to doors.

Don't forget the anti-Semitism. That's a big selling point as well.

:ducks:

[proud gonzo]

The whole town is perdy. Did you get the Malcolm Miller tour of the cathedral?if he's the guy that wrote the book about the place, then yes I think so.

[royalfan5]

Don't forget the anti-Semitism. That's a big selling point as well.

:ducks:
Eh, nobody's perfect.

[usmc-sooner]

that religion in Big Trouble in Little China was pretty cool




no I take it back it was the ****

[Frozen Sooner]

Eh, nobody's perfect.

You know, considering the subject of the thread (Christ and His Kingdom) that's just set my giggler off.

[goingoneight]

I'm too lazy to read the whole thing, so I'll ask if someone nominated telling them "**** off dip ****" yet? :D

[Blue]

I believe Ole Vet contributed that on page 2 or so. :D

[Scott D]

I just wanted post 200 heathens

[olevetonahill]

I thot the " Subject " of the thread was how to tell some one to
**** off dip **** , I dont want to go to church with you ?

[Scott D]

nobody pays you to think methuselah :D

[olevetonahill]

I believe Ole Vet contributed that on page 2 or so. :D
See I right on top of things ;)

[olevetonahill]

nobody pays you to think methuselah :D

Yea well Jesus did Go to hell , so there
I think in a hand basket or sompun .

[goingoneight]

Rename this the official "you're going to hell if you post here" thread.

[proud gonzo]

can't go to hell if you don't believe in it, bwahaha

[Soonerus]

Body-Mind-Spirit...

[proud gonzo]

Dammit.

[leavingthezoo]

tell 'em you'll go after they accompany you to the next cult meeting, and oh... can they bring the goat blood. then follow up with, deals off if they end up being sacrificed. :D


no i'm not calling religions cults.

[proud gonzo]

"goat blood?!"
"Nah, I'm just kidding--we don't really do that. *wink*"

[BigRedJed]

I'm just glad to see a religion thread go 11 pages with people passionately advocating their belief system, exchanging ideas, clarifying understandings, and at the same time mostly remaining civil, with some apologies to our LDS friends. Good thread.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm just glad to see a religion thread go 11 pages with people passionately advocating their belief system, exchanging ideas, clarifying understandings, and at the same time mostly remaining civil, with some apologies to our LDS friends. Good thread.

*runs around with "V" for victory sign with Notre Dame fight song playing*

[BigRedJed]

OK, except for Froze's posts.

[1stTimeCaller]

I think most everyone has him on ignore.

[proud gonzo]

Dude, I don't even think that Froze buy is still here. I haven't seen him post in ages. Maybe he got banned.

[Frozen Sooner]

I think most everyone has him on ignore.

Yeah, they must. I haven't seen Froze post in like a year and a half.

[Frozen Sooner]

Dude, I don't even think that Froze buy is still here. I haven't seen him post in ages. Maybe he got banned.

Jinx. Buy me a sammich.

[proud gonzo]

edit: mother****ing flood control!

and that was not jinx, I posted a minute before you. NEENER NEENER. :P

[BigRedJed]

Yeah, they must. I haven't seen Froze post in like a year and a half.
If only...

[Blue]

This should have offended somebody. My Berman clips are getting no love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkI9wgrgTOU

[Frozen Sooner]

edit: mother****ing flood control!

and that was not jinx, I posted a minute before you. NEENER NEENER. :P

I don't understand. Someone is saying something, but that can't be possible because THEY'VE BEEN JINXED AND I DON'T HAVE A SAMMICH!

[proud gonzo]

eat dirt. :P

[Frozen Sooner]

eat dirt. :P

Young people today. No respect for the rules.

[BigRedJed]

This should have offended somebody. My Berman clips are getting no love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkI9wgrgTOU
Dude, as much hair fiddling as she was doing, it's not like he was flying blind.

If only I had known at 19 what I know at 40.

[BigRedJed]

What is this flood control

[BigRedJed]

of which you speak?

[Blue]

Dude, as much hair fiddling as she was doing, it's not like he was flying blind.

If only I had known at 19 what I know at 40.

It should offend you as a dude that that dork is pulling in women with that weak crap. money money money.:D

[crawfish]

Yes, as you can trace its history of unbroken succession from St. Peter the Apostle to Pope Benedict XVI of today.

So why aren't any of the other popes married? ;)

[toast]

I thot the " Subject " of the thread was how to tell some one to
**** off dip **** , I dont want to go to church with you ?


aaaahhhh, the Dana Jacobson approach, eh?


as a lifetime church going person, I try not to let church and religion get in the way of my relationship with God.

[Hamhock]

Yes, as you can trace its history of unbroken succession from St. Peter the Apostle to Pope Benedict XVI of today.


I thought the first pope wasn't until 600? There are gaps when there was no bishop in Rome at all.

Peter himself never proclaimed any supremacy. He calls himself an elder among fellow elders. He even put forth the concept of priesthood of the believer. There is some debate as to whether Peter was ever even in Rome.

[Hamhock]

No, Constantine rigged it up early in the 4th century A.D. It's just imperial Rome in religious garb....instead of Caesar you have Pope.

The original Christians were busy being covered in pitch and lit up as garden torch lights for Nero's garden parties.

I just started reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs. it is fascinating.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I thought the Eastern Orthodox were the original Christians. Aren't they older than the Catholics?

[Frozen Sooner]

I thought the Eastern Orthodox were the original Christians. Aren't they older than the Catholics?

I know that every Eastern Orthodox person I know is older than sin.

[OU4LIFE]

I know that every Eastern Orthodox person I know is older than sin.

every Eastern Orthodox person I know says you're a selfish little brat.

they also asked that you stay off their lawn.

[Stoop Dawg]

I'm just glad to see a religion thread go 11 pages with people passionately advocating their belief system, exchanging ideas, clarifying understandings, and at the same time mostly remaining civil, with some apologies to our LDS friends. Good thread.

Yeah, well, I've been busy lately.

[Oldnslo]

Yeah, I read wiki. And there's no hell in Judiasm. Jews had no concept of hell until they came into contact with the Greeks. That's how this version of hell looks so much like hades. It's not that it's some immutable concept. Now, depending on where you go from that tid-bit, there can be a kind of purification of the soul. But that's still not hell. No such place as hell is ever mentioned in the Torah. I am unaware of any such mention in Talmud, either. For that matter, I am unaware of any mention of such a place as hell in what Christians call the Old Testament.

To be blunt, mainstream Judaism doesn't say much about an afterlife. There is one, but, unlike (my understanding of) Christianity, the afterlife isn't the focus of the religion.

[Stoop Dawg]

All Your Synagogue Are Belong To Us!

[BigRedJed]

...I am unaware of any mention of such a place as hell in what Christians call the Old Testament...
That's because there isn't one.

[yermom]

so what is Sheol then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

[Partial Qualifier]

I thought the Eastern Orthodox were the original Christians. Aren't they older than the Catholics?

I'm pretty sure whoever said 'Catholics were the first Christians' was joking.

What we call Messianic Judaism today was basically in place before Jesus died..

[BigRedJed]

so what is Sheol then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
From your own link:

Anglicans, who do not share a concept of "hades" with the Eastern Orthodox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox), have traditionally translated "sheol" (and "hades") as "hell" (for example in the King James Version (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version)). However, to avoid confusion of what are separate concepts in the Bible, modern English versions of the Bible tend either to transliterate the word sheol or to use an alternative term such as the "grave" (e.g. the NIV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIV)). Roman Catholics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholics) generally translate "sheol" as "death."

[yermom]

well, i guess not having the concept of "hell" could mean a couple different things

[GrapevineSooner]

It should offend you as a dude that that dork is pulling in women with that weak crap. money money money.:D

And to say nothing of his alleged, "Your with me, Leather."

;)

[76soonergrad]

I'm pretty sure whoever said 'Catholics were the first Christians' was joking.

What we call Messianic Judaism today was basically in place before Jesus died..



So, do you mean to say that Messianic Judaism was Christian? Jesus died & rose from the dead, and Christianity began.

At the Last Supper, He said, "Do this in memory of Me." Broke bread and ate it. And, there is no mention of an afterlife in the Old Testament. God told Abraham that his descendents would be "more numerous than the stars in the sky." He would be their God, & they would be their people. No mention of eternal life.

And, I believe that Catholics were the first Christians.





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[BigRedJed]

I'm pretty sure whoever said 'Catholics were the first Christians' was joking.

What we call Messianic Judaism today was basically in place before Jesus died..
And, sorry for bringing up JWs again, but they basically believe they are the rightful heirs to the beliefs of the early (first century) Christians, who existed (and were persecuted by the Romans) before Constantine brought widespread Christianity to the Roman Empire a couple of hundred years later.

Christianity as we know it today was shaped by the Romans, who by necessity had to allow for some pagan ritual to be absorbed into the Church to win the hearts and minds of their constituency (witness many Christmas and Easter traditions, for example). Of course, Martin Luther again changed Christianity mightily when he started the Protestant movement.

But again, the reason many JW teachings are starkly different than modern Christianity is that they attempt to base their beliefs on those of the first century Christians rather than anything that grew out of the Roman Catholic Church.

[76soonergrad]

And, sorry for bringing up JWs again, but they basically believe they are the rightful heirs to the beliefs of the early (first century) Christians, who existed (and were persecuted by the Romans) before Constantine brought widespread Christianity to the Roman Empire a couple of hundred years later.

Christianity as we know it today was shaped by the Romans, who by necessity had to allow for some pagan ritual to be absorbed into the Church to win the hearts and minds of their constituency (witness many Christmas and Easter traditions, for example). Of course, Martin Luther again changed Christianity mightily when he started the Protestant movement.

But again, the reason many JW teachings are starkly different than modern Christianity is that they attempt to base their beliefs on those of the first century Christians rather than anything that grew out of the Roman Catholic Church.



Can't speak about JW's...but...

Martin Luther didn't change all that much. It was Calvin who lead the way for Protestantism. Martin Luther was a monk who married a nun. When he died, he had an image of the Blessed Mother (the Assumption) put on his tombstone.

The Roman thing, Peter deliberately chose that location because Rome was the seat of Christian troubles. In the Holy Land.

Constantine was political. The church was there before Constantine dictated it.





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[Frozen Sooner]

Can't speak about JW's...but...

Martin Luther didn't change all that much. It was Jan Hus who lead the way for Protestantism.

Fixed that for you.

[usmc-sooner]

those scientology guys can kill just by thinking it.

[Frozen Sooner]

I would have thought they'd teach that in the Corps.

I'm REALLY disappointed.

[BigRedJed]

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/minority-report-ui.jpg

[Frozen Sooner]

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/minority-report-ui.jpg

RED X OF DEATH!!!!!!

Actually, I'm guessing that's just being filtered by work.

[BigRedJed]

It's Tom Cruise from Minority Report. Don't worry; it wasn't that funny.

[yermom]

enh, about as funny as the rest of your stuff