Salary increases, bonuses and promotions

[Chuck Bao]

I have one major thing to do this weekend and that is to write a kick-*** report on why my office colleagues deserve a big salary increase, an even bigger bonus and everyone needs to be promoted to vice president or higher.

I’m all over the drunkytown thread so I’m off to a good start.

While I’m thinking about it, isn’t it a bit funny that EVERYONE working for a bank or finance company or broker these days has to be a vice president?

And really why not? Give us all a fancy title starting at vice president. Then promote us to senior vice president and then senior executive vice president (that’s me) and then super senior executive vice president and then super duper senior executive vice president, etc.

I started this thread because I’m curious as to how other companies do that employee thing. When do you get your bonus and salary increase? How much was it? Specific numbers are going help me so much, so thanks in advance.

I’ll go first.

My company does this really silly thing of deciding salary adjustments and bonuses and promotions two months into the year and adjusting it back from the beginning of the year. If the directors could get by with not making a decision for 3-4, even 6, months, I’m pretty sure they would.

The directors say that this is a good thing because they can be even more generous when they see how things are going. Yeah, like right!

And, to think that the employees aren’t going to figure this out, being that they actually work for a financial institution and really should be adept at actual finance stuff.

It is also a bit tricky of the directors because my company had already expensed the bonus and, as a listed company, announced the full financial statements to the public before starting our “negotiations”.

In reality there are no negotiations. They play hardball and no compromises to keep it under budget. Then, after all that, hey, look there is some extra to be shared amongst the directors. I get a little extra because I’m like a really important senior executive vice president person (obviously). Add another quarter of month bonus to everyone else and we’re supposed to be excited about all that generosity and goodwill.

It’s the same damn thing every year.

[KC//CRIMSON]

I usually just write up a twenty page performance objective and competencies evaluation of myself with lots of big words and how awesome I am.:cool:

[Rogue]

Ours changes. Last couple of years the boss wanted to see a "bell curve" in performance appraisal ratings and the bonuses were awarded based on the rating. Supposedly those shops who rated everyone as "super awesome" got less and screwed themselves. It's probably voodoo math.

Regarding the raises we work for the gubmint so some are automatic. Actual promotions though depend on the relative complexity and difficulty of the job. I'm working on a promotion for my secretary this weekend too. This week some well-meaning clerk from another state called one of my clerks to do his own independent salary survey. He assured her that her job is graded 3 grades too low and it's the same as his job which is graded one grade lower than hers. So she's pizzed. I called him and asked for the position descriptions he's collecting and confirmed my suspicion that he's comparing apples and pomegranates. She was not appeased.

And my secretary still needs a promotion.

[olevetonahill]

You succ
when I sold Sidin and winders
I was Executive Vice President In charge of ?????
Of what ever BS storey I need to Try to Make a sale !
Advertising
, promotion . Bullshat ! :D
You go Gurl lol

[Ike]

"I had to make Andy my Number 2, its political, complicated, you wouldn't understand. I want you to be Assistant Regional Manager."

"Really?"

"Well, in a sense. Although publicly I am going to retain the Assistant Regional Manager position --"

"You will be your own assistant?"

"Correct, I need someone I can trust, but I would also like the title to be secretly applied to you. Just stripped of its pomp and frills."

"Okay, so, you would be the Regional Manager, and the Assistant Regional Manager, Andy is your number two, I would be the Secret Assistant Regional Manager?"

"Errrm, lets call it Secret Assistant to the Regional Manager. Do you accept?"

"Absolutely I do"

[Chuck Bao]

You succ


Obviously. Hard core succage in fact. But, get over it.

There are like 17 people in my department and they depend on me to negotiate for them.

Actually, there a several upcountry villages that I've somehow managed to adopt that depend on me.

And, I've just noticed that I haven't even taken down my Christmas decorations yet.

Heh! Ike and his secret assistant to regional manager. That cracks me up.

[Chuck Bao]

On further review. ewww.

I like you Olevet, but really by putting "You succ" and "you go gurl" together in one post seems like something an old perv would say or something.

[Chuck Bao]

Okay, I’m pretty much disheartened by what happened.

I wrote my kick-*** report with charts and graphs and supporting statistics on market salaries and other information.

My CEO never even bothered to read it.

I started this negotiation thing out all wrong, but it wasn’t really my fault. He laughed at the salary increase proposal.

So, I was like: “You are going to have to make a decision. Three of our most senior analysts have offers from competitors on the table of 50% pay rises. Are we going to match it or not? The management of the company will have to take responsibility and decide whether they want strong research or not.”

Wrong strategy.

He responded: “No, you are going to have to make that decision and take the responsibility. If you are to increase the salaries of the senior analysts as you now propose, you’ll have to lay off other staff to pay for it.”

I’m convinced that management is the ****. They are all *******s and deserve to burn in hell forever. Their job is to lower everyone else’s expectations and then capture their bonus and salary increase.

Is that what they’re teaching in MBA schools these days, to be ruthless mother****ers? If not, that’s what they should teach.

[Chuck Bao]

I will never do that, which means I'll never be management.

I interviewed everyone before putting together my proposal. I'm negotiating on their behalf, so I have to know the top end of the range to propose and bottom end that would end negotiations.

After the meeting with my CEO, I reconfirmed with my people whether a compromise is acceptable.

All of us are still hoping that the laying off of people was just a negotiating tactic and bluff.

[sooner_born_1960]

It sounds like your management just told you to manage your salary budget any way you want. You are management.

[Chuck Bao]

It sounds like your management just told you to manage your salary budget any way you want. You are management.

A pox on you. I am not management.

And the issue is budget and whether our stock market analysts are smart enough to go with a competitor's job offer of 50% higher salary.

Alright, I am management in the sense that I'd have to try to put it back together once my star analysts do leave.

I can always hope that one of them will take me with them.

[sooner_born_1960]

I hope it's a small pox. Wait, no i don't.

[Mjcpr]

Alright, I am management in the sense that I'd have to try to put it back together once my star analysts do leave.

Is that the **** that tastes like black licorice?

[royalfan5]

Wouldn't ladyboys for all be a fair compromise?

[Chuck Bao]

Wouldn't ladyboys for all be a fair compromise?

See, that's why I'm not in management!

[sooner_born_1960]

If you have the power to raise salaries and lay people off, you're management.

[soonerbrat]

all I know is..my paychecks are less since I got a raise.

the end.

[mikeelikee]

Chuck, I'm a banker also, and now in a management position. Based on what I've read, and knowing the banking employment market a little bit, it appears you are working for the wrong people. If there are competing banks willing to pay your best credit analysts half again what they're making now, your bank ownership is not in the same ball park. I wish you well. I've never seen banking quite as competitive as it is now.

[Chuck Bao]

Chuck, I'm a banker also, and now in a management position. Based on what I've read, and knowing the banking employment market a little bit, it appears you are working for the wrong people. If there are competing banks willing to pay your best credit analysts half again what they're making now, your bank ownership is not in the same ball park. I wish you well. I've never seen banking quite as competitive as it is now.

I agree, except I don't work for a bank. We are stock market analysts and my team is the public face of the company, appearing on TV, radio, etc. Our recommendations move stock prices and occasionally the whole Thai stock market.

Thanks. As I was writing this, I now have greater resolve to get back in there and say listen up stupid...

I will see how that goes.

[Vaevictis]

I wrote my kick-*** report with charts and graphs and supporting statistics on market salaries and other information.

Market salaries is how YOU justify to your boss that your market rate is higher than what you're getting paid. But that's not how you justify the raise itself.

IMO, correct method when you're dealing with an MBA is show your boss:

The net 'wealth' you create (post-raise)
The net 'wealth' created by the next best option to you should you leave and are replaced by someone from the 'market.'


If the net wealth you create post-raise is greater than your replacement without the raise, the rational choice (ie, the choice espoused by most business professors) would be to give you the raise if and only if the manager believes you'll bolt without it (higher market salaries contribute to this).

If those numbers are on your side, and the manager still doesn't budge, and you WILL leave without the raise, then you're not dealing with a rational manager, and there's really not a whole lot you can do.


Is that what they’re teaching in MBA schools these days, to be ruthless mother****ers? If not, that’s what they should teach.

Depends on the school.

[Chuck Bao]

Good and useful points, Vaevictis. Your term - net wealth - is probably similar to my term - economic value.

Your term may be better than mine if I could get the major shareholders of the company and their representatives on the board to consider that this is a people business and the skills and earnings generating ability is part of the company's "net wealth".

Nah! Natch! Nadda!

Who am I kidding? Employees are not ever considered net worth.

Anyway, I re-worked my proposal and got everyone on board, EXCEPT the laying off of staff stuff.

I'm hoping everyone can just forget that part. It seems to be working so far.

[Chuck Bao]

My re-worked proposal got re-worked again by my boss and then approved by the board and I had no idea that was going on.

After all that heart-felt cuts and negotiations and last second cuts without my agreement, the board decides to give me a generous pay hike and bigger bonus than everyone else.

They're feeling guilty alright.

I told my boss, the company CEO that that isn't right. It's the third year in a row they did that and I'm going to have to figure out how to give it back to my department.

On a tangent note, one of my staff is leaving to pursue a masters degree in math/economics in Germany and asked for a 10 month bonus. He deserves it and typically we'd given that to him over the last three years.

The management said that nobody in the company gets more than a 7 month bonus, but I had already promised 10 months to this guy.

I don't decide my own bonus, so I had to ask (and I now realize that I should never, ever admit to this) my colleagues to take a higher bonus and pass it on to our colleague. They all love him and I didn't see this problem at first.

One guy said he wasn't comfortable with that arrangement because his wife would assume that the the colleague is a she.

Another said that this is a really, really bad idea and someone in particular was doing this - paying out very, very large bonuses to very, very lowly paid staff, paying minimum tax rate and getting all of the bonus transferred back to that manager under the table, in the process beneffiting from the very low tax rate of staff.

That makes me really, really angry.

We still worked this thing out with one staff to pass on his bonus after tax and it seems to be okay.

But, there are SOOOO many people I know who get their salaries paid in low tax rate Hong Kong.

If anyone should wonder why I'm no longer a Republican, it's this whole cheating thing.

I'm paying my fair share of the taxes, I think others should too!

[Vaevictis]

Another said that this is a really, really bad idea and someone in particular was doing this - paying out very, very large bonuses to very, very lowly paid staff, paying minimum tax rate and getting all of the bonus transferred back to that manager under the table, in the process beneffiting from the very low tax rate of staff.

Those two people need to be fired and reported. They're committing tax fraud, and they're using the company as an intermediary -- which probably means that the company is committing tax fraud too.

And now that you know about it, you're probably on the hook for it too.

[Chuck Bao]

Those two people need to be fired and reported. They're committing tax fraud, and they're using the company as an intermediary -- which probably means that the company is committing tax fraud too.

And now that you know about it, you're probably on the hook for it too.

I don't know who these people are! I was just told that what I had proposed was like what some people said some people may have been doing.

It was just my little scheme was not so proper even though the intent was very, very good. We were just going in the opposite way with bonus transferred to high tax individuals who bore the taxes and took care of lower salary individuals. This young kid is good and he'll like blow out everyone in math and economics in his studies in Germany. He's like the typical smart Asian dude.

[Vaevictis]

I don't know who these people are! I was just told that what I had proposed was like what some people said some people may have been doing.

You may have come, or may be coming upon the point, where you meet the requirements for "should have known." Be careful.


It was just my little scheme was not so proper even though the intent was very, very good.

From a legal point of view, as long as they both pay appropriate taxes on it, I think it should be fine. Of course, I'm assuming that Thai law is substantially similar to US law, so I could be wrong.

[Chuck Bao]

Basically, my department now has three stock market strategists and none of us ever manage to agree.

The other two strategists have their own products - "Stockgazer" and "Yip Ngun, Yip Tong" (pick up the silver, pick up the gold).

So, my idea was to launch my own product.

But, that didn't work out, at all.

I like the "by george". Someone suggested a "Money - by george".

My colleagues didn't like it. One said that it looked like vomit. I tried to find an old typewriter font and dark blue with a strip of pink.

http://img5.ranchoweb.com/images/kanunu/moneybygeorge.jpg

Does it really look that bad?

Then, my boss just vetoed the whole idea. According to him, my view is the definitive department view and I can't just go off developing my own product with my own view.

And then, he gives me like a special bonus above everyone else. This is after playing really, really dirty hardball with me in negotiating everyone's salaries, bonuses and promotions. This is the third year in a row that he's done that.

That is probably a smart tactic for him. I have to take responsibility when I was very happy to slip away and do my own thing and let the other strategists rise or fall on their own accord. Now, I'm going to have to do daily battles with them.

I'm very disappointed and feeling depressed about that.

[OU-HSV]

I've only been w/my company going on 4 or 5 months now. They do evaluations on each employee in late Oct. or early Nov. and yearly raises go into affect the first pay period of the new year. They evaluate everyone regardless of how long you've worked there. However I think you have to be there a full 3 months or more to get rewarded the raise for the new year. (and I hadn't been there that long before '08 hit)
So currently I've been asking for a couple of hours overtime to help me make some ground up on my debt. I'm still waiting for an answer from my boss. I do know that the projects they currenty have me working on have no overtime in their budget, so that sucks. My hope is they'll move me to another project soon.

[Vaevictis]

Does it really look that bad?

It doesn't look that bad, but it doesn't look that good. I wouldn't publish something looking like that. It offends my sensibilities as to how something like that is supposed to look -- eg, your overly sparing use of capitalization bugs me and your subtitle ("No lifting of...") is probably too long.


Then, my boss just vetoed the whole idea. According to him, my view is the definitive department view and I can't just go off developing my own product with my own view.

I don't know if that's standard industry practice or not, but on the surface it seems reasonable. You might want the top guy making sure all the other folks are doing what they ought to be doing. OTOH, it might also be that they don't want to being in the public eye anymore than necessary, lest someone get the idea to try to steal you away.


That is probably a smart tactic for him. I have to take responsibility when I was very happy to slip away and do my own thing and let the other strategists rise or fall on their own accord. Now, I'm going to have to do daily battles with them.

If you're their manager... well, I'm hesitant to say it, but you may have been shirking your duty. IMO, the manager shouldn't be letting people rise and fall of their own accord, the manager should be doing everything in his power to ensure that his folks rise. That includes the stuff you like doing, like getting them well deserved raises and promotions and running interference between your folks and your bosses, and stuff you don't so much like doing, like smacking them around when they're screwing up.

[Chuck Bao]

It doesn't look that bad, but it doesn't look that good. I wouldn't publish something looking like that. It offends my sensibilities as to how something like that is supposed to look -- eg, your overly sparing use of capitalization bugs me and your subtitle ("No lifting of...") is probably too long.

The sparing use of capitalisation is our standard and convention and we use it on the 1,200+ reports we post on the web each year.

I did set that convention, but I have to admit that I hate, hate the whole stupid idea that each paragraph is a bullet point and each paragraph/bullet point must have a title. To capitalise the key words of all those titles seems stupid and pretentious to me, even though I accept the fact that most readers don’t get beyond the first paragraph and only subsequent paragraph titles.

Well, they don’t!

My title of this particular report was bad and I admit to that. It still conveyed the two key points of my piece that was no lifting of capital controls and the market is getting way ahead of itself in assuming near-term interest rate cuts. It was just my latest piece that I pasted into my mock up.


I don't know if that's standard industry practice or not, but on the surface it seems reasonable. You might want the top guy making sure all the other folks are doing what they ought to be doing. OTOH, it might also be that they don't want to being in the public eye anymore than necessary, lest someone get the idea to try to steal you away.

Make no mistake, we want to be in the public eye. We have free access to our online research. My analysts are on TV, radio and invite the press to every seminar we host.

Analysts are being increasing judged not on their calls, but on how many times they are invited on TV.

I’m way too ugly and nervous for that sort of thing.


If you're their manager... well, I'm hesitant to say it, but you may have been shirking your duty. IMO, the manager shouldn't be letting people rise and fall of their own accord, the manager should be doing everything in his power to ensure that his folks rise. That includes the stuff you like doing, like getting them well deserved raises and promotions and running interference between your folks and your bosses, and stuff you don't so much like doing, like smacking them around when they're screwing up.

Ahem. What is the point of having stock market strategists? They are either good or bad. If they’re good, they’ll prove themselves. If they’re bad, we need to get rid of them. This is not a trainee position and smacking people around when they’re screwing up is not going to help things, at all.

You should know that all this belly aching and bitching about salaries is really not for them. It is for me. I have to keep my good people and if I don't I'm going to feel the pressure.

This may not be the classic definition of a good manager, but I think it is true nonetheless.

[Vaevictis]

Ahem. What is the point of having stock market strategists? They are either good or bad. If they’re good, they’ll prove themselves. If they’re bad, we need to get rid of them. This is not a trainee position and smacking people around when they’re screwing up is not going to help things, at all.

True. But what's the point of having a manager? Part of your job is certainly to separate the wheat from the chaff, that's true. But that's not the manager's only job -- or even primary job -- the other part is to ensure that you're extracting the maximum value you can from your assets.

Letting your employees rise or fall on their own might be the optimal strategy for separating the wheat from the chaff, but it may not be the optimal strategy for ensuring you're getting the best return on your investment in those employees.

If letting them rise and fall on their own is in fact the optimal strategy for extracting maximum value from your employees, then I retract my prior statement. If it's not, then I stand by it. Clearly, I must defer to your opinion on that matter, as it's your group and not mine.