Why Romney didn't get it...

[tbl]

It's interesting to me that Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, and a bunch of other like people rallied behind somebody that was doomed from the beginning. As has probably been discussed, I believe the main, sole, and undisputed reason Romney never had a chance is indeed because he is a Mormon. That's it. It's not like Kennedy being a Catholic running on the Democratic ticket. Mormon beliefs are pretty out there, and anybody that knows anything about Mormonism knows that it is a radical departure from Biblical Christianity. The base of Republicans/Conservatives is essentially Christian, if not in practice at least in ideology, and I just don't see any way a Mormon could get the Presidency at this time. I'm not saying Mormons aren't moral, conservative, or good people. I believe they (for the most part) can be all of these things. I'm just saying the core of their theology is more like Scientology than Christianity, and I just don't see how its possible for a Mormon to get the Republican nomination.

:pop:

[SwitzerFan]

Agreed!

[Fugue]

cue a hubler

[Position Limit]

that's a nice attempt at marginalizing the republican party into a one issue group. the crack somking evangelical leader, gay repulican bathroom sex and a myraid of other religious/sexual disasters have sort of put religious status on the back burner for the log cabin party. that's quite a myopic thought process you have. anyway, dying your hair black while keeping sideburns gray and envoking ronald reagan as a policital messiah at every turn will not get you a nomination anymore. the guy is an empty suit and a horrific public speaker with little to no personality.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I hate Mother Teresa and the children.

[soonerhubs]

It's interesting to me that Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, and a bunch of other like people rallied behind somebody that was doomed from the beginning. As has probably been discussed, I believe the main, sole, and undisputed reason Romney never had a chance is indeed because he is a Mormon. That's it. It's not like Kennedy being a Catholic running on the Democratic ticket. Mormon beliefs are pretty out there, and anybody that knows anything about Mormonism knows that it is a radical departure from Biblical Christianity. The base of Republicans/Conservatives is essentially Christian, if not in practice at least in ideology, and I just don't see any way a Mormon could get the Presidency at this time. I'm not saying Mormons aren't moral, conservative, or good people. I believe they (for the most part) can be all of these things. I'm just saying the core of their theology is more like Scientology than Christianity, and I just don't see how its possible for a Mormon to get the Republican nomination.

:pop:


I agree with most of your points except for the comparison to Scientology. We believe that a Prophet and Apostles lead us today not unlike New Testament times. That might seem weird to some folks, but its tenable, tangible, and explicit, something most protestant faiths are not (no offense intended) The name Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latterday Saints is the official name of the religion, though most know it by its nickname Mormon.

The reason I feel people didn't vote for Romney, like you, is because he is a Mormon. You'll never when the evangelical south with that religion.

There's a stigma attached to Mormonism because it's different. Lies have flown around the world about the LDS faith. I grew up here and people wouldn't be my friend as a child because I was Mormon, and for some reason that made me weird. I eventually wore it as a badge of honor.

Rumors have spread that we are some crazy cult, but I can assure you the dictionary definition for cult puts EVERY RELIGION including the Baptists, Church of Christ members, and Methodist Faiths in that category.

Do we believe some things that seem unreal regarding where we go after death? Yes, but is it much better for a protestant not to know? In my eyes I see the Far Side comic of the man in heaven wishing he'd brought a magazine.

It's like J. Golden Kimball said back in the early 1900's regarding our "crazy" beliefs about life after death.
I'd rather be a mormon going to hell, than not be a mormon and not know where the hell I'm going.

We fear God, we study the Bible, but we believe there's more to it than that. If that makes me strange, then stamp it. I really couldn't care less. I accept Christ as my personal savior, and I also do more regarding covenants and ordinances. If anything, in your eyes, doesn't that make us just hyperactive and overkill Christians with just a few more unnecessary compulsions?

The reason Romney didn't win the Evangelical vote is quite simply because of unfamiliarity and fear of the LDS religion. Is that bigotry or ignorance? I would like to think not, because every true Christian I've ever met tends to be open minded and secure in their beliefs.

I'm positive many of you good Christians are on this board, yet there's never made much mention of it. I ask each of you to name the religion you belong to and tell me some more about what you believe. I'm an open book. :pop:

[soonerinabilene]

I can see where you are coming from with this, and I agree somewhat. But at the same time, when it comes to crunch time, is America ready for a black or female president as well? Im not saying its right, or condoning this type of thought, but does anyone truthfully believe that anyone other than a white male that is affiliated in some way with a "mainstream" Christian denomination is going to be president?

[Position Limit]

I can see where you are coming from with this, and I agree somewhat. But at the same time, when it comes to crunch time, is America ready for a black or female president as well? Im not saying its right, or condoning this type of thought, but does anyone truthfully believe that anyone other than a white male that is affiliated in some way with a "mainstream" Christian denomination is going to be president?

no kidding. especially a black president with hussein as a middle name.

[King Crimson]

It's interesting to me that Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, and a bunch of other like people rallied behind somebody that was doomed from the beginning. As has probably been discussed, I believe the main, sole, and undisputed reason Romney never had a chance is indeed because he is a Mormon. That's it. It's not like Kennedy being a Catholic running on the Democratic ticket. Mormon beliefs are pretty out there, and anybody that knows anything about Mormonism knows that it is a radical departure from Biblical Christianity. The base of Republicans/Conservatives is essentially Christian, if not in practice at least in ideology, and I just don't see any way a Mormon could get the Presidency at this time. I'm not saying Mormons aren't moral, conservative, or good people. I believe they (for the most part) can be all of these things. I'm just saying the core of their theology is more like Scientology than Christianity, and I just don't see how its possible for a Mormon to get the Republican nomination.

:pop:

I'm not a Mormon, but comparing it to Scientology is a bit extreme and sort of unfair, IMO. I don't completely agree that Romney wasn't a factor solely due to his Mormon belief; but, if you want to use Kennedy as an example, start of list of all the other Catholic Presidents in US history.

the other issue is the FOX/Newsmax punditry basically creating and propagating this pro-Romney position, that's been sort of interesting to watch. if only since it has so much media support from the "experts".

[Scott D]

You all have it wrong. Romney was destine to fail for two reasons.

1. His first name is Willard. You can't have a Willard as President, it'd be a downfall faster than a nuclear conflict with Al Queda.

2. He managed to nearly be as terrible a governor as his father was. For crissakes, the landmark of his father's term as governor was the 1968 Detroit Riots.

[soonerhubs]

You all have it wrong. Romney was destine to fail for two reasons.

1. His first name is Willard. You can't have a Willard as President, it'd be a downfall faster than a nuclear conflict with Al Queda.

2. He managed to nearly be as terrible a governor as his father was. For crissakes, the landmark of his father's term as governor was the 1968 Detroit Riots.
I agree with the Willard comment.
I'm not educated enough on the latter point though. :D

[crawfish]

I think it was the magic underwear.

[Tear Down This Wall]

You are way overthinking Robot-ney's demise. It's as simple as this:

(1) He is pro-abortion.

(2) The Republican Party is pro-life.

(3) Upon running for president, he claimed to have changed his mind and become pro-life.

(4) No one outside of "conservative" shills on talk radio and writing for rags like National Review bought it.

(5) He was continually whipped at the polls by two pro-life candidates, one who had far less money, and the other of whom was broke.

(6) Being unable to buy the nomination for $50 million and the "change" on abortion, he bowed out mumbling some crap about us being at war.

He now joins former pro-abortion candidate Rudy Giuliani on the sidelines, left to support the eventual pro-life nominee.

The pity is that supposed "conservative" media people bought into the scam simply because McCain won't be their little, butt-sniffing lap dog. To them, I have only one word to say: stick it.

[Scott D]

I agree with the Willard comment.
I'm not educated enough on the latter point though. :D

He was governor from 1963 til 1969. The only major thing that happened during his term were the Riots in 1967 that ended up being quelled after Johnson had to send in the big boys because ole George Romney wasn't doing a good enough job if managing his state (mainly because he was trying to run for President). That pretty much put the final dagger in his hopes to be President other than the "brainwashing" comments he made.

[soonerhubs]

He was governor from 1963 til 1969. The only major thing that happened during his term were the Riots in 1967 that ended up being quelled after Johnson had to send in the big boys because ole George Romney wasn't doing a good enough job if managing his state (mainly because he was trying to run for President). That pretty much put the final dagger in his hopes to be President other than the "brainwashing" comments he made.
Makes sense.
I put the smiley beside the wrong sentence. Sorry.

[Scott D]

eh hubs I knew where the smiley was meant. silly mormon smileys aren't for kids ;)

[SoonerBOI]

He flip-flopped from previous moderate positions and tried to remake himself as the true "conservative" torch bearer. Romney's remake did not work. More importantly, it is not what the majority of Republicans wanted, as Mitt found out the hard way. To thine own self be true. If only Mitt had done that.

[Osce0la]

:les: IT'S FRIDAY!!!11

[HskrGrl]

It must start NEXT Friday. :P

[Scott D]

:les: IT'S FRIDAY!!!11

Today is No Seminole Slappy Posting Friday.

You didn't get the memo. We'll have to talk to PQ about that.

[mrssoonerhubler]

It's interesting to me that Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, and a bunch of other like people rallied behind somebody that was doomed from the beginning. As has probably been discussed, I believe the main, sole, and undisputed reason Romney never had a chance is indeed because he is a Mormon. That's it. It's not like Kennedy being a Catholic running on the Democratic ticket. Mormon beliefs are pretty out there, and anybody that knows anything about Mormonism knows that it is a radical departure from Biblical Christianity. The base of Republicans/Conservatives is essentially Christian, if not in practice at least in ideology, and I just don't see any way a Mormon could get the Presidency at this time. I'm not saying Mormons aren't moral, conservative, or good people. I believe they (for the most part) can be all of these things. I'm just saying the core of their theology is more like Scientology than Christianity, and I just don't see how its possible for a Mormon to get the Republican nomination.

:pop:

I'm not going to be nearly as nice as my husband. I know "Mormons" have crazy beliefs, but we accept it and embrace it. I think it's even weirder that you seem so preoccupied with it.

Why do you care so much?

You are ignorant.

(that's right....Wife #1 is fired up :)

[tbl]

I'm not preoccupied with it at all. I stated an opinion, which you and your husband agree with, yet strangely enough you still accuse me of being ignorant. I don't get it... I know about the Mormon religion and what your beliefs are. You both acknowledge that the LDS theology is "crazy" and you both embrace it, so why am I the bad guy for pointing out the obvious? Because I'm not one of you? Huck was lambasted for making a true statement about LDS theology as well (Jesus and Lucifer being brothers), and I still don't understand that one either.

I do agree with the other points about Romney, but ultimately it was his religion that was his downfall.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

He was Sam Malone wearing a suit.

[soonerbrat]

eh hubs I knew where the smiley was meant. silly mormon smileys aren't for kids ;)



which are the silly mormon smileys?

[Scott D]

I'm not preoccupied with it at all. I stated an opinion, which you and your husband agree with, yet strangely enough you still accuse me of being ignorant. I don't get it... I know about the Mormon religion and what your beliefs are. You both acknowledge that the LDS theology is "crazy" and you both embrace it, so why am I the bad guy for pointing out the obvious? Because I'm not one of you? Huck was lambasted for making a true statement about LDS theology as well (Jesus and Lucifer being brothers), and I still don't understand that one either.

I do agree with the other points about Romney, but ultimately it was his religion that was his downfall.

pretty sure neither of them said that LDS theology was "crazy". More like they understand that their beliefs are somewhat different than 'mainstream' protestant or catholic beliefs. And it probably has to do more with the appearance that your statements in this and the original post were attacking their religion as the basis for why Romney failed in his campaign. His failures were far and above anything having to do with his religion.

[soonerbrat]

pretty sure neither of them said that LDS theology was "crazy". More like they understand that their beliefs are somewhat different than 'mainstream' protestant or catholic beliefs. And it probably has to do more with the appearance that your statements in this and the original post were attacking their religion as the basis for why Romney failed in his campaign. His failures were far and above anything having to do with his religion.


that and he said their beliefs equated to Tom Cruise's

[Scott D]

yeah that too.

[tbl]

When a good Mormon dies, he has the potential to be a God of his own planet. He must be married in the temple and he and his celestial bride will breed for eternity populating the planet which He is the God of. Elohim is the God of our planet, his firstborn son is Jesus and the second born is Lucifer. Tell me that isn't pretty close to sci-fi, and this only skims the surface of the depths of the theology that lies within.

I'm only quoting what they believe so one can see why this might be unappealing to a large section of the population.

From a Christian perspective, Mormonism is contrary to Scripture on many fronts, and I don't think any Mormon would argue that. Not that all Republicans are Christians or all Christians are Republicans, but I think its fair to say that a lot of Christians are Republicans, which ultimately led to his demise. There's no way that he would have won any states in the Bible belt where you have a lot of Baptists and other denominations that have some knowledge of apologetics. Again, America is not ready for a Mormon president. I'm not saying it will never happen, just not now... Do I think his religion has anything to do with his ability to be a good President? No. I think you can have many great leaders in politics or the military that are not Christian or have no religious affiliation at all... but America isn't ready...

[soonerhubs]

Ohh... Never mind.

[Scott D]

I can say that I'm duly unimpressed by that diatribe.

kudos to hubler being the bigger man by not getting into a semantics mudslinging disagreement. It takes a lot to **** off most Mormons I know....tbl managed to do it in less than 5 posts.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm very sorry that I missed this thread earlier.

The Hublers have a heartfelt faith that does not deserve ridicule. Stating that it's "contrary to scripture" is no excuse. It's obviously not contrary to the scripture they believe in.

I think tbl makes a valid point inasmuch that many people in this country might feel uncomfotable voting for a Mormon because they find their beliefs odd.

Romney certainly had other flaws as a candidate.

[BigRedJed]

I agree with Froze. I have Mormon family, and they're seriously good people. Weird is only weird depending upon your perspective. And yeah, from my perspective beliefs seem a bit odd. But that's the beauty of America; we all have the RIGHT to believe what we want to believe, and should be able to expect not to be persecuted for it. Isn't that why the Pilgrims came here to begin with?

I also think that it's entirely a fair assessment to state that Romney probably lost a number of votes due to religious affilition. Joe Leiberman would do the same. Heck, a lot of people wouldn't vote for Huckabee specifically because they are concerned about his, which are overall mainstream Christian but possibly too evangelistic for some tastes.

But you can talk about how faith or beliefs figure into an election without ridiculing said faith/beliefs.

[Scott D]

QUIT TRYING TO BRAINWASH US TOM CRUISE!

and by tom cruise I mean BRJ.

[BigRedJed]

I don't listen to SPs, pal. You're on ignore.

[Hublah]

I'm not preoccupied with it at all. I stated an opinion, which you and your husband agree with, yet strangely enough you still accuse me of being ignorant. I don't get it... I know about the Mormon religion and what your beliefs are. You both acknowledge that the LDS theology is "crazy" and you both embrace it, so why am I the bad guy for pointing out the obvious? Because I'm not one of you? Huck was lambasted for making a true statement about LDS theology as well (Jesus and Lucifer being brothers), and I still don't understand that one either.

I do agree with the other points about Romney, but ultimately it was his religion that was his downfall.


I cannot believe that I missed out on this great discussion...teaches me to not log in for a while...and as far as you saying you know about the Mormon religion...you are only going off what some other ignorant person has told you...have you personally read the Book of Mormon? Would you go to a Chevy dealership to learn about a Ford? DO you think you would get the actual truth?

I know this was brought up a few weeks ago...but I missed out on the fun!!!

:)

[Hublah]

I'm not going to be nearly as nice as my husband. I know "Mormons" have crazy beliefs, but we accept it and embrace it. I think it's even weirder that you seem so preoccupied with it.

Why do you care so much?

You are ignorant.

(that's right....Wife #1 is fired up :)


I know our beliefs are crazy like these examples:

1. Moses parted the Red Sea ---good luck finding that one in the Bible :)
2. Jesus is our Savior --- another crazy one


Man those are crazy...I can see where tbl is coming from...

[yermom]

anyone that believes in mythology and miracles shouldn't be pointing any fingers. i only really draw the line personally when people are coerced into doing stupid stuff that affects other people or causes them to be taken advantage of


Lucifer and Jesus being brothers sounds like semantics to me anyway, don't they have the same father?

[yermom]

as far as the Scientology parallel... it helps that they both got pretty similar South Park treatment

it probably also has to do with how recent the "prophets" are

our culture likes its religious paranormal events in ancient times

[Hublah]

as far as the Scientology parallel... it helps that they both got pretty similar South Park treatment

it probably also has to do with how recent the "prophets" are

our culture likes it's religious paranormal events in ancient times


Amen BROTHA!!!

[Blue]

When a good Mormon dies, he has the potential to be a God of his own planet. He must be married in the temple and he and his celestial bride will breed for eternity populating the planet which He is the God of. Elohim is the God of our planet, his firstborn son is Jesus and the second born is Lucifer. Tell me that isn't pretty close to sci-fi, and this only skims the surface of the depths of the theology that lies within.

I'm only quoting what they believe so one can see why this might be unappealing to a large section of the population.

From a Christian perspective, Mormonism is contrary to Scripture on many fronts, and I don't think any Mormon would argue that. Not that all Republicans are Christians or all Christians are Republicans, but I think its fair to say that a lot of Christians are Republicans, which ultimately led to his demise. There's no way that he would have won any states in the Bible belt where you have a lot of Baptists and other denominations that have some knowledge of apologetics. Again, America is not ready for a Mormon president. I'm not saying it will never happen, just not now... Do I think his religion has anything to do with his ability to be a good President? No. I think you can have many great leaders in politics or the military that are not Christian or have no religious affiliation at all... but America isn't ready...

I'll back up tbl. This seems pretty fair and I'm not seeing much ridicule in his opinion.

Actually it seems quite tame compared to what could have been said or what is said by atheists on this board regarding religion in general.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's rediculous that this caught heat. I'm sure the Hublers are great people, but TBl has a right to express his opinion on Mormonism w/out it being implied he's intolerant.

[Hublah]

I'll back up tbl. This seems pretty fair and I'm not seeing much ridicule in his opinion.

Actually it seems quite tame compared to what could have been said or what is said by atheists on this board regarding religion in general.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's rediculous that this caught heat. I'm sure the Hublers are great people, but TBl has a right to express his opinion on Mormonism w/out it being implied he's intolerant.

He is more then welcome to his opinion...but it is full of false and ignorant statements. If you are going to have an opinion, it should at least be an educated opinion. If I wanted to learn about OU would I ask a whorn?

That is all that I am saying. I am not trying to persuade anyone or say that he shouldn't have an opinion, but it is obvious that he is taking someone else's word on it. It shows that he has not looked at what we teach from our angle. He is using information that is skewed.

[jk the sooner fan]

If I wanted to learn about OU would I ask a whorn?



why do you hate Darrell Royal?

[shaun4411]

It's interesting to me that Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, and a bunch of other like people rallied behind somebody that was doomed from the beginning. As has probably been discussed, I believe the main, sole, and undisputed reason Romney never had a chance is indeed because he is a Mormon. That's it. It's not like Kennedy being a Catholic running on the Democratic ticket. Mormon beliefs are pretty out there, and anybody that knows anything about Mormonism knows that it is a radical departure from Biblical Christianity. The base of Republicans/Conservatives is essentially Christian, if not in practice at least in ideology, and I just don't see any way a Mormon could get the Presidency at this time. I'm not saying Mormons aren't moral, conservative, or good people. I believe they (for the most part) can be all of these things. I'm just saying the core of their theology is more like Scientology than Christianity, and I just don't see how its possible for a Mormon to get the Republican nomination.

:pop:


i am not inclined to agree whole-heartedly for one reason: this mormon was standing to give that over-the-top christian huckabee a nice whipping. and was beating him several weeks after dropping out of the race. hucksterbee. haha.

which doesnt say much fore the republicans of the usa. who, assuming your statement is accurate, would rather not vote in someone for being a mormon. and the dems are trying to choose between a woman and a black man. just kind of makes the republicans wavering over religion look considerably more trite in their decision making.