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Soonerus
2/4/2008, 01:08 AM
will be the nominee and probably the next president..

SicEmBaylor
2/4/2008, 01:10 AM
For once, you sir, are correct.

LosAngelesSooner
2/4/2008, 02:02 AM
Well, despite all the "Doom and Gloomers" on here, I think the ol' U.S. of A. will be fine with McCain, Obama or even Clinton. Any of those three will be good stewards and won't mess things up too much (IMHO). They're all smart, savvy, strong and I think that all three will listen to both reason and to what "the people" say/ask for/demand.

The rest is just "in the details," really.

tommieharris91
2/4/2008, 02:49 AM
And I think the Dems would make a huge mistake in giving the nom to Hillary...I think the Repubs will come out in full force to fight the dictator if hse gets the nom... I think they should nominate Obama if they wanna win...

LosAngelesSooner
2/4/2008, 04:28 AM
And I think the Dems would make a huge mistake in giving the nom to Hillary...I think the Repubs will come out in full force to fight the dictator if hse gets the nom... I think they should nominate Obama if they wanna win...I agree with that as well.

I think that Obama, strategically, is the best option for the Democrats if they want to win the White House. He won't stir the passions of the Republicans to get out and vote AGAINST him like Hillary would against herself. McCain would lose that extra OOMPH in voter turnout that Hillary would give him from the ultra-right Republicans.

If the Democrats nominate Hillary (which I think they will) then McCain has a very good chance of being the next POTUS. If they nominate Obama, then I think Obama takes it. If the Republicans nominate Romney (which I don't think they will) then Hillary will clean his clock and Obama would win solidly over Romney, but not with a landslide.

Of course, that's just my opinion. It's really impossible to predict these things. :)

Collier11
2/4/2008, 05:09 AM
will be the nominee and probably the next president..


God help us if that happens, I really think as a Republican that if the Democrats want to take the White House they need Obama as their nomination

Okla-homey
2/4/2008, 06:11 AM
God help us if that happens, I really think as a Republican that if the Democrats want to take the White House they need Obama as their nomination

I dunno folks. I'm not sure this country is ready for a black president. I'm not even sure if it's ready for a woman president.

OUAndy1807
2/4/2008, 08:20 AM
I think there are a lot of older dems that say that they would vote for a woman, but once they got into the voting booth would have real problems voting for her. Also, it's a little hard to run on "change" when the Clinton brothers are your candidate.

I think that with the choices that the democrats have made in their primaries, they have let the reps back into this thing. When this all started, I thought the election was a slam dunk for the democrats,

Collier11
2/4/2008, 08:26 AM
I dunno folks. I'm not sure this country is ready for a black president. I'm not even sure if it's ready for a woman president.


I could be wrong but I definitely get the feel that the democratic voters are trending away from Hillary, they are afraid of a woman when it call comes down to it and the fact that she is a CLinton people are wanting something new

King Crimson
2/4/2008, 08:37 AM
Also, it's a little hard to run on "change" when the Clinton brothers are your candidate.


yeah, seems to be the case that Hil is screwing the pooch on that one....out of desperation bringing Bill back and doing a "back to the 90's/rah rah change" thing that's barely coherent. Obama sort of has the "change" thing monopolized so Hil's cards are all on the table. also doesn't help her "independent woman" perception. this is her only chance, prolly.

crawfish
2/4/2008, 08:53 AM
I, for one, welcome our new lesbian neocon overlord.

dolemitesooner
2/4/2008, 09:06 AM
.................

mikeelikee
2/4/2008, 09:58 AM
I'm not opposed to a woman being president, but I'm sure as heck opposed to THIS woman being president!

Curly Bill
2/4/2008, 10:17 AM
I dunno folks. I'm not sure this country is ready for a black president. I'm not even sure if it's ready for a woman president.

...and we have a winner.

That being said: I think the country might be willing to elect a woman president, just not Hillary. As for a black president? Not yet.

MamaMia
2/4/2008, 11:12 AM
Re: I really think Hillary...will be the nominee and probably the next president..If that happens, I'm going to give myself a huge paycut so I can get twice as much.

VeeJay
2/4/2008, 11:22 AM
I quit my job because I won't need the employer-paid healthcare.

I'll work somewhere less stressful and with more meaning - helping mankind and whatnot. Profit is the debil.

JohnnyMack
2/4/2008, 11:36 AM
Will. Not. Happen.

JohnnyMack
2/4/2008, 12:05 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/04/national.poll/index.html

Obama gaining significant momentum.

Civicus_Sooner
2/4/2008, 12:19 PM
will be the nominee and probably the next president..Here's the problem with that notion. Hillary starts with fully 40% (not Republicans only either) of likely voters who say they will not vote for her. She also begins with the highest unfavorable rating by any candidate for President in modern history.

If she is the nominee, Dem's can forget it. Which is why the fring right is so worried about McCain v. Clinton.

StoopTroup
2/4/2008, 12:36 PM
The reason this race is so darn interesting is comments like "I'm not sure whether this Country is ready for a Woman or a Black President".

It's a valid statement.

The thing is...it's needs modification IMHO.


I'm not sure that America is ready for another Republican in Office and having a Woman and a Black Candidate makes it a total cr*p shoot.

:pop:

OU-HSV
2/4/2008, 12:40 PM
I'm not on any level interested in hillary ever becoming president. However, I do wonder, would she have male interns or female interns?

StoopTroup
2/4/2008, 12:46 PM
Bill as 1st lady-killer would have the DC reporters on their toes night and day..

OU-HSV
2/4/2008, 12:59 PM
Bill as 1st lady-killer would have the DC reporters on their toes night and day..
Heh, I can just picture him tiptoe'in around the whitehouse in the middle of the night to go meet a girlfriend. And stuffing a pillow under the blanket so hillary thinks he's still in bed.

Animal Mother
2/4/2008, 02:16 PM
Iím not sure Iím ready to listen to Republicans tell me they want smaller government. They tell me this but then they want Constitutional amendments against gay marriage, abortion and burning the flag. I think I want them to define smaller because it looks as if it means larger. The Constitution is supposed to give us MORE rights not take rights away.

Civicus_Sooner
2/4/2008, 02:30 PM
Iím not sure Iím ready to listen to Republicans tell me they want smaller government. They tell me this but then they want Constitutional amendments against gay marriage, abortion and burning the flag. I think I want them to define smaller because it looks as if it means larger. The Constitution is supposed to give us MORE rights not take rights away.The constitution did give us more rights but these amendments are stupid and too be honest, taking on the social conservatives has really hurt the true identity of the GOP.

Animal Mother
2/6/2008, 01:46 PM
The constitution did give us more rights but these amendments are stupid and too be honest, taking on the social conservatives has really hurt the true identity of the GOP.

What would you say IS the true identity of the GOP?

sooneron
2/6/2008, 01:52 PM
What would you say IS the true identity of the GOP?
Back in Ronnie's day,
Lower Taxes
Less Gov't intrusion into Corp. America
Strong defense

MamaMia
2/6/2008, 02:03 PM
I'm not on any level interested in hillary ever becoming president. However, I do wonder, would she have male interns or female interns?If by some terrible fate, she does win the election, and if she has even an ounce of estrogen left in her body, she will have a male intern named Monty who smokes cigars, and make Bill sleep in the Lincoln bedroom.

Collier11
2/6/2008, 02:22 PM
If by some terrible fate, she does win the election, and if she has even an ounce of estrogen left in her body, she will have a male intern named Monty who smokes cigars, and make Bill sleep in the Lincoln bedroom.


Bill would probably oblige as long as he got one day a week with Monty and two days a week with Heidi :D

JohnnyMack
2/6/2008, 02:27 PM
Or, slowing down the economy to fight global warming.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, we'll really miss the way W has cranked up the economy.

Ike
2/6/2008, 02:39 PM
I think that with the choices that the democrats have made in their primaries, they have let the reps back into this thing. When this all started, I thought the election was a slam dunk for the democrats,


Never underestimate the Democrats ability to screw up an easy win.

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 03:13 PM
Never underestimate the Democrats ability to screw up an easy win.

:D

Collier11
2/6/2008, 03:16 PM
Never underestimate the Democrats ability to screw up an easy win.


The Democrats have the chance to rejuvenate alot of people and are blowing it with all of their BS, I am a Republican but would consider voting for Obama but I get so sick of all the fighting on both sides!

Ike
2/6/2008, 03:25 PM
The Democrats have the chance to rejuvenate alot of people and are blowing it with all of their BS, I am a Republican but would consider voting for Obama but I get so sick of all the fighting on both sides!


I'm telling you...the Democrats ability to screw things up is uncanny. 2004 was supposed to be a slam dunk, and they go and nominate Kerry.


They have become the Bill Buckner of politics.

Octavian
2/6/2008, 03:26 PM
Never underestimate the Democrats ability to screw up an easy win.


Amen. :) I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the Clintons are watching Obama give a speech.


That being said....even with Obama's historic momentum, Hillary had a very good night last night....and overall, she's won the popular vote handily. HRC has absolutely blasted McCain (even more so than she's defeated Obama) on a national level. In many states, Clinton has doubled McCain in total votes.


And if you put them on a stage together, McCain wouldnt exactly run circles around her.


Also...the economy could come into play pretty quick. A confirmed recession or economic downturn would be bad for Obama. In times of uncertainty, "experience" and "solutions" are more attractive attributes than something flashy and new.....and no one in this race can claim a greater economic record than the Clintons. McCain's weakness is economic prowess.


On the other hand, the next few primaries/caucuses favor Obama. It might put his momentum over the top. In any event, some people are seriously underestimating Hillary Clinton in the general.

Octavian
2/6/2008, 03:27 PM
perfect double post ;)

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 03:33 PM
The Democrats have the chance to rejuvenate alot of people and are blowing it with all of their BS, I am a Republican but would consider voting for Obama but I get so sick of all the fighting on both sides!

Case in point:

Normally, the Anchorage precinct caucus gets about 500-1000 people showing up. Based on recent voter registrations, the party was expecting about 3500 people to show.

5000+ showed up. They were woefully unprepared and ended up ticking off a lot of people who were voting as a Democrat for the first time. They had to extend the cutoff for letting people in by an hour and a half. Nowhere near sufficient parking was on hand-people were parking up to two miles away in -10F weather. There was an hour wait inside just to figure out where in the building your district was caususing.

Ridiculous.

Had a blast, though.

Collier11
2/6/2008, 03:34 PM
In many states, Clinton has doubled McCain in total votes.


And if you put them on a stage together, McCain wouldnt exactly run circles around her.





Ive seen several polls over the last several months that show Mccain with a sizeable(4-6pt) lead over hillary in the natl polls head to head

Octavian
2/6/2008, 03:41 PM
Ive seen several polls over the last several months that show Mccain with a sizeable(4-6pt) lead over hillary in the natl polls head to head


Thats true...but its only really about a few battleground states and voting day turnout. Those national polls are subsets of subsets and they're taken at the national level.


HRC only needs to win the Kerry states and Florida and/or Ohio and/or a collection of a couple smaller states. She's still receiving heavy support in many of those areas.... and if voter turnout holds even slightly to form, there are several realistic scenarios for Clinton to beat whichever Republican in the general. She's already received very impressive number of votes for a primary thats not yet complete. The turnout is just huge this year.

Oldnslo
2/6/2008, 03:45 PM
Amen. :) In many states, Clinton has doubled McCain in total votes.

There are WAY more registered Dems than Reps. Especially in places like NY and the rest of the east coast.

What I noticed was that if you added NY and IL, Obama got more total votes than Clinton. I'm sure this has no statistical significance. It just struck me.

It's starting to wear thin with me that Hillary is claiming to have experience by virtue of proximity. You know, my wife is a lawyer and we discuss cases within the bounds of client confidentiality. That doesn't mean, despite the fact that she and I are both skilled attorneys, that she'd be "experienced" in taking over my practice, nor I hers.

Carol ain't taking over for Bob, neither.

That being said, Hill won NY, CA, FL, and NJ. There's lots of electoral votes there. If she wins the Dem nomination, she may well be poised to win the whole damn thing.

:eek:

JohnnyMack
2/6/2008, 03:47 PM
HRC only needs to win the Kerry states and Florida and/or Ohio and/or a collection of a couple smaller states.

Oh she'll go to court and screech like a howler monkey to try and get the Florida votes you can be sure of that.

I'm so enthused at the prospect of a POTUS whose accomplishments include FUBARing Health Care Reform, writing a book about dogs in the White House and letting her husband get hummers in his office. Yay. :rolleyes:

Collier11
2/6/2008, 03:54 PM
Thats true...but its only really about a few battleground states and voting day turnout. Those national polls are subsets of subsets and they're taken at the national level.


HRC only needs to win the Kerry states and Florida and/or Ohio and/or a collection of a couple smaller states. She's still receiving heavy support in many of those areas.... and if voter turnout holds even slightly to form, there are several realistic scenarios for Clinton to beat whichever Republican in the general. She's already received very impressive number of votes for a primary thats not yet complete. The turnout is just huge this year.


If it is HRC against Mccain, how many people who nominated Hillary will be scared off at the polls from voting for a woman? That is something big and very real to consider

JohnnyMack
2/6/2008, 03:54 PM
.

OklahomaTuba
2/6/2008, 03:56 PM
Billary's having to give her own campaign $5 Million.

I wonder how much uranium Bill had to sell to get that money???

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 03:58 PM
If it is HRC against Mccain, how many people who nominated Hillary will be scared off at the polls from voting for a woman? That is something big and very real to consider

How many people will be scared off by electing a 71-year-old man running with Mike Huckabee as his Vice-president? I don't think anyone who voted to nominate Clinton would suddenly notice in November that she's a woman. I think it's a very real concern (if McCain chooses Huckabee) that Huckabee will turn moderate-to-liberal putative Republicans to vote for Obama or Clinton.

I kind of like McCain, and I think that right now I'd rank my presidential preferences (among those still running) as 1. Obama 2. McCain 3. Clinton 4. Romney 5. Huckabee.

Octavian
2/6/2008, 03:59 PM
That being said, Hill won NY, CA, FL, and NJ. There's lots of electoral votes there.


She's also up big in Ohio. Obama is impressive and McCain will be tough nails, but it's gonna be difficult for either of them to beat her.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2008, 04:00 PM
How many people will be scared off by electing a 71-year-old man running with Mike Huckabee as his Vice-president? I don't think anyone who voted to nominate Clinton would suddenly notice in November that she's a woman. I think it's a very real concern (if McCain chooses Huckabee) that Huckabee will turn moderate-to-liberal putative Republicans to vote for Obama or Clinton.

I kind of like McCain, and I think that right now I'd rank my presidential preferences (among those still running) as 1. Obama 2. McCain 3. Clinton 4. Romney 5. Huckabee.

I'm scared to death that my choices are going to end up being John "Let's stay in Iraq for 100 years" McCain and her. I don't know which would be worse.

Collier11
2/6/2008, 04:00 PM
How many people will be scared off by electing a 71-year-old man running with Mike Huckabee as his Vice-president? I don't think anyone who voted to nominate Clinton would suddenly notice in November that she's a woman. I think it's a very real concern (if McCain chooses Huckabee) that Huckabee will turn moderate-to-liberal putative Republicans to vote for Obama or Clinton.

I kind of like McCain, and I think that right now I'd rank my presidential preferences (among those still running) as 1. Obama 2. McCain 3. Clinton 4. Romney 5. Huckabee.


I am just saying that I think Obama is alot more electable than billary and the dems would be making a huge mistake by nominating her...JMHO though

Octavian
2/6/2008, 04:01 PM
If it is HRC against Mccain, how many people who nominated Hillary will be scared off at the polls from voting for a woman? That is something big and very real to consider


and how many men that tried to nominate Obama would crawl over glass to keep another Republican from taking the White House?


probably a push (at worst) for her.

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 04:03 PM
I agree Collier. There are millions of people in the United States who would turn out to vote against Hillary Clinton even if she was running against Moloch. Obama doesn't have the same baggage.

Honestly, I see a Clinton presidency as four to eight more years of divisive politics and unreasoning opposition. I think both Obama and McCain have enough crossover appeal that maybe they could get the country all headed the same direction for once.

I'd love to see a McCain/Obama ticket.

Collier11
2/6/2008, 04:11 PM
How many people will be scared off by electing a 71-year-old man running with Mike Huckabee as his Vice-president?


Historically speaking in the Good Ol US of A, voters are alot less scared by a old white guy than a woman being in power, not my view just the history of it all :confused:

Collier11
2/6/2008, 04:13 PM
Remember, 40% of people polled said they wouldnt vote for Billary in any scenario...that is quite a number no matter the sample size

Ike
2/6/2008, 04:14 PM
Remember, 40% of people polled said they wouldnt vote for Billary in any scenario...that is quite a number no matter the sample size


The question there though is what percentage of those 40% would likely stay home in November, and what percentage would likely vote against her?

Collier11
2/6/2008, 04:19 PM
The question there though is what percentage of those 40% would likely stay home in November, and what percentage would likely vote against her?


True, there are far too many scenarios right now to know whats going on until we actually know who wins the Dem nomination but I think a Mccain vs. Obama would be really interesting and exciting

JohnnyMack
2/6/2008, 04:20 PM
The question there though is what percentage of those 40% would likely stay home in November, and what percentage would likely vote against her?

I'd get out and vote against her.

AggieTool
2/6/2008, 04:21 PM
CANKLES '08!

Octavian
2/6/2008, 04:30 PM
There are millions of people in the United States who would turn out to vote against Hillary Clinton even if she was running against Moloch. Obama doesn't have the same baggage.


While that's true...in the general, he'll be much more vulnerable to different kinds of attacks than in the more cozy primaries. There's a different arsenal available for McCain to use in the general that won't work for Hillary in front of an all Democratic audience.


Both parties will generally protect their own geographic turf. Its very likely that it'll come down to the battle ground states again and Hillary is the strongest candidate from either party in almost every one.

Collier11
2/6/2008, 04:42 PM
While that's true...in the general, he'll be much more vulnerable to different kinds of attacks than in the more cozy primaries. There's a different arsenal available for McCain to use in the general that won't work for Hillary in front of an all Democratic audience.


Both parties will generally protect their own geographic turf. Its very likely that it'll come down to the battle ground states again and Hillary is the strongest candidate from either party in almost every one.


hillary only won 4 Rep states while Obama won 8

r5TPsooner
2/6/2008, 04:49 PM
I agree Collier. There are millions of people in the United States who would turn out to vote against Hillary Clinton even if she was running against Moloch. Obama doesn't have the same baggage.

Honestly, I see a Clinton presidency as four to eight more years of divisive politics and unreasoning opposition. I think both Obama and McCain have enough crossover appeal that maybe they could get the country all headed the same direction for once.

I'd love to see a McCain/Obama ticket.0


You do realize that Obama is about as Liberal as they get don't you?

The Repubs would never let that happen anyway.

JohnnyMack
2/6/2008, 04:50 PM
Hillary had a very good night last night....and overall, she's won the popular vote handily.

Yeah, she beat his ***. :rolleyes:


NEW YORK (CNN) ó Just how sharply are Democrats divided between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton?

Of all the votes cast on Super Tuesday for the two candidates nationwide, they are only separated by 0.4 of a percentage point.

By midday Wednesday, 14,645,638 votes were reported cast for either Obama or Clinton on Tuesday. Clinton had won 7,350,238 of those votes (50.2 percent) while Obama captured 7,295,400 votes (49.8 percent).

Most precincts had reported 100 percent of their votes by Wednesday, though some districts had yet to complete their count. Many of those votes are in in New Mexico, where CNN has yet to declare a winner, and in California, where a sizeable number of absentee votes have yet to be tallied.

r5TPsooner
2/6/2008, 04:53 PM
One thing is for sure... Californians showed me how stupid they really are in general last nite.

Collier11
2/6/2008, 04:53 PM
Yeah, she beat his ***. :rolleyes:


On top of that, the delegate count is within 30 according to one news outlet

r5TPsooner
2/6/2008, 04:56 PM
On top of that, the delegate count is within 30 according to one news outlet


Must be Fox News.:texan:

Collier11
2/6/2008, 04:57 PM
Must be Fox News.:texan:


Lol, no actually it wasnt...FN Hillary out in front a little more


Up to date On MSNBC has Obama up by 4 delegate
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22419475

Collier11
2/6/2008, 05:01 PM
The drudgereport.com has him up by 13, Fox has him behind by about 70 but the drudgereport.com and msnbc have been updated more recently

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 05:17 PM
Historically speaking in the Good Ol US of A, voters are alot less scared by a old white guy than a woman being in power, not my view just the history of it all :confused:

I don't know that they're scared of the old guy. They might be scared of the old guy kicking the bucket and leaving us with President Huckabee.

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 05:21 PM
0


You do realize that Obama is about as Liberal as they get don't you?

The Repubs would never let that happen anyway.

What, a McCain/Obama ticket? I didn't say it was realistic, I said I'd like to see it.

I realize that Obama is about as idealistic as they get, sure. A lot of his idealism is also centered around liberal ideals as well. I don't particularly have a problem with that.

Personally, I think Obama has a better chance of getting people to rally around his ideals than Hillary Clinton does, even though her politics are probably more moderate than his, simply because I think more people are willing to listen to Obama than Clinton.

Collier11
2/6/2008, 05:22 PM
What, a McCain/Obama ticket? I didn't say it was realistic, I said I'd like to see it.

I realize that Obama is about as idealistic as they get, sure. A lot of his idealism is also centered around liberal ideals as well. I don't particularly have a problem with that.

Personally, I think Obama has a better chance of getting people to rally around his ideals than chicken head does, even though her politics are probably more moderate than his, simply because I think more people are willing to listen to Obama than chicken head.


Now youve got it :D

dolemitesooner
2/6/2008, 05:39 PM
I dunno folks. I'm not sure this country is ready for a black president. I'm not even sure if it's ready for a woman president.
So is this why you start a thread everyday about a white male (John McCain)

Maybe your not ready???:mad:

Collier11
2/6/2008, 05:58 PM
So is this why you start a thread everyday about a white male (John McCain)

Maybe your not ready???:mad:


Exactly, maybe Oklahoma isnt ready for a black or woman president, the United states is...they are just people, dont worry about them turning into robots or anything

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 06:09 PM
Exactly, maybe Oklahoma isnt ready for a black or woman president, the United states is...they are just people, dont worry about them turning into robots or anything

And even if they do, Summer Glau can be my president. Yowza.

NYC Poke
2/6/2008, 06:21 PM
Exactly, maybe Oklahoma isnt ready for a black or woman president, the United states is...they are just people, dont worry about them turning into robots or anything


You'd think that if a conservative Islamic country like Pakistan could elect a female Prime Minister, the US could manage to survive a female President.

Of coure, Pakistan later banished her from the country and then assasinated her . . .

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 06:37 PM
Well, I personally think America is capable and ready for either. In fact, after it happens (election of either), I think it will be a big non-event pretty quickly. Maggie Thatcher was elected Prime Minister of the stodgy UK nearly 30 years ago, fercryinoutloud.

I just always felt it would be the Republican Party, believe it or not, that elected one or the other. The best potential candidates for the past couple of decades have been Republicans, if you think about it. Jeane Kirkpatrick, Elizabeth Dole, Colin Powell, Condi Rice at some point...

I've always thought it would be easier to elect a female or black Republican than Democrat, because Republicans would be less likely to be frightened of them or define them solely by gender/race, and quite a few Democrats might be confused enough by what to do that they might cross party lines ("let me see... ...do I vote for this extremely qualified African-American... ...or... ...John Kerry?).

What I don't want to see is someone elected BECAUSE of their gender or race.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 08:10 PM
One thing is for sure... Californians showed me how stupid they really are in general last nite.


Yeah, maybe they did, or maybe they were just duped.

link (http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/election/bubble-bubble-toil-and-trouble/)

Kind of funny that this only happened in LA county. Where the mayor of LA backed, you guessed it, HRC! Why, in an open primary, do you give an independent a different ballot?

IT IS AN OPEN PRIMARY, YOU HAVE PROVEN THAT YOU ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE, AND THEY GIVE YOU A DIFFERENT BALLOT THAN EVERYONE ELSE, AND NOT TELL YOU THAT YOU MUST DO SOMETHING EXTRA TO MAKE YOUR VOTE COUNT?

Oh, BTW, independents in Cali voted for Obama more often than they did for HRC, 56% to 33%

LosAngelesSooner
2/6/2008, 08:14 PM
Yes. Everyone in the state of California is stupid. No exceptions.

Everyone in every other state is smart.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 08:18 PM
Yes. Everyone in the state of California is stupid. No exceptions.

Everyone in every other state is smart.


HE ADMITS IT FOLKS!!!
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/havok0283/WTF.jpg

:D

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 08:20 PM
Alright, I'm moving this over to the fark board...

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 08:21 PM
Alright, I'm moving this over to the fark board...


Please don't, we'll be good, promise! :D

LosAngelesSooner
2/6/2008, 08:21 PM
We all hate America, too.

And are socialists.

And are arrogant, intellectual elitists.

And love terrorists.

And are gay.

And build our houses in mud slide areas.

And can't breathe normal air.

And are terrorized by the amount of crime out here.

All of us.

It's a cesspool. I'd recommend against ever moving out here or even visiting.

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 08:22 PM
Please don't, we'll be good, promise! :D
Are you talking about the posting, or the farking? 'Cause that belonged right up there with BSG's tennis match.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 08:23 PM
We all hate America, too.

And are socialists.

And are arrogant, intellectual elitists.

And love terrorists.

And are gay.

All of us.

Quick, someone go find RLIMC, he needs to document this, LA Sooner is admitting to his crimes finally!

LosAngelesSooner
2/6/2008, 08:24 PM
I'm evil incarnate.

What can I say?

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 08:25 PM
Are you talking about the posting, or the farking? 'Cause that belonged right up there with BSG's tennis match.

Ah shucks, if I didn't know you were lying out your arse I would be a happy SO camper :D

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 08:26 PM
I'm evil incarnate.

What can I say?

I will forgive you for your vile liberal ways...for Rush tickets! :P

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 08:27 PM
Ah shucks, if I didn't know you were lying out your arse I would be a happy SO camper :D
Have you SEEN BSG's tennis match farks?

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 08:28 PM
Have you SEEN BSG's tennis match farks?

Can't say I have, hold on...

Ok, Maybe my mad skillz do measure up :D

LosAngelesSooner
2/6/2008, 08:56 PM
I will forgive you for your vile liberal ways...for Rush tickets! :P
Are you planning on going to the show?

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2008, 09:18 PM
How many people will be scared off by electing a 71-year-old man running with Mike Huckabee as his Vice-president? I don't think anyone who voted to nominate Clinton would suddenly notice in November that she's a woman. I think it's a very real concern (if McCain chooses Huckabee) that Huckabee will turn moderate-to-liberal putative Republicans to vote for Obama or Clinton.

I kind of like McCain, and I think that right now I'd rank my presidential preferences (among those still running) as 1. Obama 2. McCain 3. Clinton 4. Romney 5. Huckabee.

i'll bet money that McCain picks Joe Lieberman as his running mate

SicEmBaylor
2/6/2008, 09:23 PM
i'll bet money that McCain picks Joe Lieberman as his running mate
Lieberman has said no, but who knows...

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:24 PM
i'll bet money that McCain picks Joe Lieberman as his running mate

Don't know that it's likely, but I won't bet against it for the simple fact that I try to never bet against something I'd like to see happen.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:24 PM
Are you planning on going to the show?


Yeah, when tickets go on sale, I am buying some, I have too!

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 09:31 PM
i'll bet money that McCain picks Joe Lieberman as his running mate
That would suddenly get me a bit more excited about that ticket. So far... ...not so much.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:33 PM
i'll bet money that Clinton picks Clinton as her running mate


I don't think you would lose that bet

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 09:34 PM
I don't think you would lose that bet

Well, from a constitutional standpoint this would be an impossibility...

...just sayin. :D

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2008, 09:36 PM
I could see Bill at the UN

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:36 PM
I don't think you would lose that bet

From the 12th Amendment:

But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.


Bill's out.

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:37 PM
I could see Bill at the UN

Or as AG. Just because it would make SO MANY heads explode. ;)

If Richardson endorses Clinton, I think he's heading to the UN.

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2008, 09:38 PM
he'd have a hard time getting thru confirmation hearings with his past debarment

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 09:39 PM
I think he's heading to the UN.

I think he's headed to the mall to pick up chicks. :D

edit...or maybe to the UN to pick up chicks...that's what you meant right?

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 09:39 PM
...If Richardson endorses Clinton, I think he's heading to the UN.
Of course, Hillary would have to win first.

DOH!!

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:40 PM
Depends on if Hillary has a coattail or not. If the Democrats get a solid grip on the Senate, you think it's going to be a tough confirmation? Regardless if he's been disbarred?

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:41 PM
Of course, Hillary would have to win first.

DOH!!

True. If he endorses Obama then I think he's headed for Blair House.

Hey, didn't Dave Chappelle say something about that once?

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2008, 09:41 PM
yeah i think some job other than AG, no problem

AG? big problem

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:42 PM
yeah i think some job other than AG, no problem

AG? big problem

Like I said:

Head explosions all around.

Heh. Why not just appoint him full-time special prosecutor?

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:42 PM
Well, from a constitutional standpoint this would be an impossibility...

...just sayin. :D

Maybe Not

Under Article II of the Constitution, a person is "eligible to the Office of President" as long as he or she is a natural-born U.S. citizen, at least 35 years old and a resident of the United States for 14 years.

The 12th Amendment says "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President."

But, the 22nd Amendment states "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice."

So, since he wouldn't be elected to the presidency in the case of HRC's demise, he is still a viable VP.

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:43 PM
So by the 22nd amendment, he is no longer eligible to the office of President. The 22nd amendment supercedes Article II.

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 09:44 PM
Maybe Not

Under Article II of the Constitution, a person is "eligible to the Office of President" as long as he or she is a natural-born U.S. citizen, at least 35 years old and a resident of the United States for 14 years.

The 12th Amendment says "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President."

But, the 22nd Amendment states "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice."

So, since he wouldn't be elected to the presidency in the case of HRC's demise, he is still a viable VP.
Man, that is a conundrum if I've ever seen one.

SicEmBaylor
2/6/2008, 09:44 PM
Maybe Not

Under Article II of the Constitution, a person is "eligible to the Office of President" as long as he or she is a natural-born U.S. citizen, at least 35 years old and a resident of the United States for 14 years.

The 12th Amendment says "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President."

But, the 22nd Amendment states "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice."

So, since he wouldn't be elected to the presidency in the case of HRC's demise, he is still a viable VP.

He could be Vice President. If something happened to Hillary and couldn't fulfill her term, then he could still constitutionally fill out the rest of her term but he couldn't run for office again.

I believe that's the case, but I may be wrong.

jk the sooner fan
2/6/2008, 09:45 PM
he's not going to take any role to over shadow her

the UN would allow him to be in New York and her to have the white house all to herself

they like to sleep in different bedrooms ya know

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 09:45 PM
So by the 22nd amendment, he is no longer eligible to the office of President. The 22nd amendment supercedes Article II.
I think he might have a point, Froze. He wouldn't actually have been ELECTED to the presidency.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:45 PM
So by the 22nd amendment, he is no longer eligible to the office of President. The 22nd amendment supercedes Article II.

Right, but He wouldn't be elected to the presidency. So, since he wouldn't be being elected to the presidency, he could still become president if it were by other means.

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 09:46 PM
But really, I just wanted to use "conundrum" in a sentence.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:46 PM
He could be Vice President. If something happened to Hillary and couldn't fulfill her term, then he could still constitutionally fill out the rest of her term but he couldn't run for office again.

I believe that's the case, but I may be wrong.

DING DING DING! WINNER!!!

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 09:46 PM
He could be Vice President. If something happened to Hillary and couldn't fulfill her term, then he could still constitutionally fill out the rest of her term but he couldn't run for office again.

I believe that's the case, but I may be wrong.

No one can serve more then 10 years as POTUS under any circumstance. If he succeeded her this would be an obvious posibility, and thus: no can do.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:48 PM
No one can serve more then 10 years as POTUS under any circumstance. If he succeeded her this would be an obvious posibility, and thus: no can do.

Ah, but that isn't the wording of the 22nd amendment. It only states that "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice," that is it, no year maximum there.

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:49 PM
Something for the Supremes to debate, possibly. However, the intent of the 22nd is clear, and it even goes on to spell out that someone who has served more than two years of a Presidential term is can only run once.

Since Bill has already won twice, he would be in violation of the 22nd if he took the Presidency.

Seriously, there's no way that holds up in the Supreme Court.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:50 PM
Ah, the good old battle of intent of the law, and letter of the law...plenty of cases have gone both ways in US history

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 09:51 PM
Ah, but that isn't the wording of the 22nd amendment. It only states that "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice," that is it, no year maximum there.

You can be elected to two terms: 2 x 4 = 8
You can serve two or less years of a term you have succeeded to

8 + 2 = 10

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 09:52 PM
C'mon. When have LAWS ever been an impediment to the Clintons? :D

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:52 PM
It keeps saying "elected president," and Bill wouldn't be elected to the office of president, he would assume the office of president, no election needed.

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 09:53 PM
C'mon. When have LAWS ever been an impediment to the Clintons? :D

...and now we really do have a winner! :D

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 09:54 PM
C'mon. When have LAWS ever been an impediment to the Clintons? :D

I can just see the ignorant e-mail campaigns about the "trail of death" that's followed Bill Clinton and how he's planning to get Hillary into the White House and strangle her so he can have four more years.

**NOTE: I do not think that Bill Clinton would do this, I am only commenting on the fact that people will put and believe any stupid thing that comes through their e-mail, up to and including that there's a Zimundan King who wants to give them 50 brazillion pesos.***

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:56 PM
You can be elected to two terms: 2 x 4 = 8
You can serve two or less years of a term you have succeeded to

8 + 2 = 10

But it doesn't work here, going by the strict letter of the law. Clearly, by the intent of the law, Bill couldn't be VP, but, going by the strict letter of the law, he absolutely could. The whole thing hinges on "elected to the office of President of the United States." Bill would not be elected to that office, he would be being elected to another office.

SicEmBaylor
2/6/2008, 09:56 PM
No one can serve more then 10 years as POTUS under any circumstance. If he succeeded her this would be an obvious posibility, and thus: no can do.
He could still succeed her and take office, but he'd have to resign if he ran over.

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 09:56 PM
there's a Zimundan King who wants to give them 50 brazillion pesos.***

Naw, the one I got today was from Paraguay. :D

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 09:57 PM
Seriously, if they decided to press it based on what I've seen posted here (and no, I haven't gone out and read the entire amendments myself), I'll bet they could make a pretty entertaining Supreme Court case out of it.

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 09:59 PM
I'm still waiting for Froze to neg me to Bolivian over post 119.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 09:59 PM
I found this, it is a little dated, but explains both sides pretty well.

link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/19/AR2006101901572.html)

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 09:59 PM
I see what you guys are saying...but I still don't think him being VP would pass constitutional muster.

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 10:01 PM
Heh. It all depends upon what the meaning of "elected" is.

Frozen Sooner
2/6/2008, 10:02 PM
Seriously, if they decided to press it based on what I've seen posted here (and no, I haven't gone out and read the entire amendments myself), I'll bet they could make a pretty entertaining Supreme Court case out of it.

Depends on what they decide "eligible" means and what the intent of the 22nd was.

If I were arguing the case on the con side, I'd state that the clear intent of the 22nd amendment was to make someone who had already served two terms ineligible, and that by any reasonable definition of eligible for an elected office that not being able to be elected to the office would mean you were ineligible.

If I were arguing the pro, I would state that had the intent been to make someone who had served two terms ineligible, that wording would have been used and that making anyone who had been president twice ineligible would deprive elder statesmen the opportunity to be the Speaker of the House, etc.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 10:05 PM
Just have to wonder if the current SCOTUS would rule on the intent of the law, or if they would rule on the letter of the law

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 10:06 PM
Depends on what they decide "eligible" means and what the intent of the 22nd was.

If I were arguing the case on the con side, I'd state that the clear intent of the 22nd amendment was to make someone who had already served two terms ineligible, and that by any reasonable definition of eligible for an elected office that not being able to be elected to the office would mean you were ineligible.

If I were arguing the pro, I would state that had the intent been to make someone who had served two terms ineligible, that wording would have been used and that making anyone who had been president twice ineligible would deprive elder statesmen the opportunity to be the Speaker of the House, etc.
Well, that article Havok posted is pretty darn interesting. Apparently people who should have a far greater grasp on constituional law than we are pretty torn on the issue.

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 10:07 PM
Well, that article Havok posted is pretty darn interesting. Apparently people who should have a far greater grasp on constituional law than we are pretty torn on the issue.

True dat...

...and it is an entertaining argument, but there's no way she chooses him as a VP candidate. If you think her negatives are high on the chart...

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 10:08 PM
There is only one thing I can guarantee you on the question of whether or not Bill Clinton could be elected to the Vice Presidency: that is that at some point Clinton himself has had the issue vetted.

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 10:09 PM
YOU PEPPL ALL KNOW THAT I SPEAK THE TRUTH!!!

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 10:11 PM
I have no doubt that he has run this by his legal team.

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 10:11 PM
This thread is a lot more fun than that stinky old McCain thread.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 10:12 PM
This thread is a lot more fun than that stinky old McCain thread.

Yeah, pretty much

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 10:14 PM
Here's a secret: it's because I'M in this one.

Curly Bill
2/6/2008, 10:14 PM
Yeah we was sounding all scholarly and stuff there for awhile. :D

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 10:14 PM
I'll go over to that McCain thread and PWN this POS.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 10:17 PM
Here's a secret: it's because I'M in this one.
Ah, and here I was thinking it was because I brought up a good point. :(

BigRedJed
2/6/2008, 10:18 PM
I can't hear you. I'm in the McCain thread. PWNing this thread.

Sooner_Havok
2/6/2008, 10:26 PM
I am winner!

Soonerus
2/6/2008, 11:52 PM
Hillary is easily the strongest substantive candidate left in contention...

BlondeSoonerGirl
2/7/2008, 12:33 AM
Dammit.

KaiserSooner
2/7/2008, 12:53 AM
If Richardson endorses Clinton, I think he's heading to the UN.

Nah. He's already been there, under the first Clinton.

State Dept. possibly.

Soonerus
2/7/2008, 12:55 AM
It is a weak field but Hillary is clearly the lesser of all evils...

proud gonzo
2/7/2008, 12:57 AM
anybody else snicker when people use "SCOTUS" or "POTUS"? sounds like a harry potter spell or something

SicEmBaylor
2/7/2008, 12:58 AM
anybody else snicker when people use "SCOTUS" or "POTUS"? sounds like a harry potter spell or something

Don't forget COTUS

Frozen Sooner
2/7/2008, 01:07 AM
Nah. He's already been there, under the first Clinton.

State Dept. possibly.

Nothing says he can't go back.

Secretary of State is a possibility though.

SicEmBaylor
2/7/2008, 01:13 AM
Nothing says he can't go back.

Secretary of State is a possibility though.

It's against the law to appoint a family member to the cabinet. RFK being appointed AG being what led to it..

Frozen Sooner
2/7/2008, 01:19 AM
It's against the law to appoint a family member to the cabinet. RFK being appointed AG being what led to it..

Didn't know that, but I'm not sure how it applies here, as Bill Richardson is no relation to either Bill or Hillary Clinton so far as I know.

SicEmBaylor
2/7/2008, 01:22 AM
Didn't know that, but I'm not sure how it applies here, as Bill Richardson is no relation to either Bill or Hillary Clinton so far as I know.
Hah, I didn't read further back. I thought you were talking about Hillary appointing Bill to SecState.

Octavian
2/7/2008, 03:30 AM
hillary only won 4 Rep states while Obama won 8


Thats the problem. Those Republican states will likely stay Republican in November. It can't be extrapolated that Obama will win in the general just because he's winning all the Red states in the primaries.


'04 Electoral Map:


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7669/electoralmapqn7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




OBAMA

Connecticut – solid DEM

Delaware - solid DEM

Illinois – solid DEM

Minnesota – Battleground (GOP lean)

Missouri – Battleground (GOP lean)

South Carolina - solid GOP

Alaska – solid GOP

Idaho – solid GOP

North Dakota – solid GOP

Utah – solid GOP

Colorado – solid GOP

Kansas – solid GOP

Alabama – solid GOP

Georgia – solid GOP



Obama has 2 Battleground wins (both GOP leans). Obama has won 9 solid Red states that are most likely throw-away states in the fall. In a general election, Obama is vulnerable to all sorts of attacks that aren't effective in an all-Democratic primary season. He will NOT just roll through all these Red States in the general election.

And then he's won three solid DEM states that would likely go to any anti-Bush candidate in the general.




CLINTON

California – solid DEM

New York – solid DEM

New Jersey – solid DEM

Massachusetts – solid DEM

New Hampshire - solid DEM

New Mexico – Battleground (DEM lean)

Arizona – Battleground (GOP lean)

Nevada - Battleground (GOP lean)

Tennessee – Battleground (GOP lean)

Arkansas – Battleground (GOP lean)

Oklahoma – heavy GOP



Unlike Obama....Clinton has 5 (not counting Florida) Battleground wins (4 GOP leans and 1 DEM lean).....and only 1 of Hillary’s victories (Oklahoma) is in a solid (throw-away) Red state.



Clinton has also won more of the national popular vote than either Obama or McCain in the most electorally important states:

CALIFORNIA
NEW YORK
FLORIDA (Battleground)
ARIZONA
MICHIGAN
...and she's up big in OHIO (another Battleground)



If Clinton continues to roll through all the biggest states....and continues to win more battleground states....and stays ahead in the popular vote....she'll win the nomination.


The Presidency isn't a done deal for Hillary in the slightest. But it's inaccurate to say that Obama has some kind of unified support or insurmountable momentum...or that McCain would sweep Hillary in the general....that just doesn't reflect the reality of the electorate.

JohnnyMack
2/7/2008, 10:24 AM
I can't believe we have people talking about how electable Hillary Clinton is for the office of POTUS. What a ****ing joke. I mean think about it for a minute. Hell think about it for 5 minutes. Tell me why in the hell she's worthy of this? Unreal.

BlondeSoonerGirl
2/7/2008, 10:58 AM
Can't say I have, hold on...

Ok, Maybe my mad skillz do measure up :D

Phhhht. Not even close, n00b.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2691/patfark4bi1.jpg

JohnnyMack
2/7/2008, 10:58 AM
Clinton staffers going without pay, Hillary has to loan herself 5mm to keep campaign rolling.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23037431/

Meanwhile Obama continues to pull in money.

swardboy
2/7/2008, 12:34 PM
Clinton staffers going without pay, Hillary has to loan herself 5mm to keep campaign rolling.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23037431/

Meanwhile Obama continues to pull in money.

Yes, this is becoming a real issue to Hillary's viability.

Scott D
2/7/2008, 12:38 PM
Yes, this is becoming a real issue to Hillary's viability.

unlike her continued existence in a political arena, which has been a thorn in the side of her viability since she found a way to sneak around reality to become a Senator from NY.