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View Full Version : Al-Q reaches new depths of barbarity...



Okla-homey
2/2/2008, 03:00 PM
Using retarded people as weapons.

And to think, there are Americans who think we are the bad guys for locking up these a-holes and throwing away the key when we catch them alive.


Two women who killed nearly 80 people in Baghdad were Down's Syndrome victims exploited by al Qaida.

The explosives were detonated by remote control in a co-ordinated attack after the women walked into separate crowded markets, said the chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad General Qassim al-Moussawi.

Other officials said the women were apparently unaware of what they were doing in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert toughened security measures.

More than 70 people died and scores were wounded in the deadliest day since the US "surge" of 30,000 extra troops were sent to the capital this spring.

In the first attack, a woman detonated explosives hidden under her traditional black Islamic robe in the central al-Ghazl market. The weekly bazaar has been bombed several times since the war started but recently had re-emerged as a popular place to shop and stroll as Baghdad security improved. At least 46 people were killed and more than 100 wounded.

The second woman then struck a bird market in a predominantly Shiite area in south-eastern Baghdad killing up to 27 people and wounding 70.

The attacks shortly before the weekly Islamic call to prayer resounded across the capital were the latest in a series of violent incidents that have been chipping away at Iraqi confidence in the permanence of recent security gains.

Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said the attacked were committed by terrorists motivated by revenge and "to show that they are still able to stop the march of history and of our people toward reconciliation."

Police initially said the bomb at al-Ghazl market was hidden in a box of birds but realised it was a suicide attack after finding the woman's head, an officer said.

At least four other suicide bombings have been staged by women since November, all in the volatile Diyala province north-east of the capital

OKC-SLC
2/2/2008, 03:05 PM
And to think, there are Americans who think we are the bad guys for locking up these a-holes and throwing away the key when we catch them alive.
I simply cannot understand this. I will always be ashamed of these Americans.

85Sooner
2/2/2008, 03:18 PM
But we need to treat them nice in Quantanimo (sp)

Jerk
2/2/2008, 03:31 PM
They're shooting their own collective foot. This is exactly the type of behavior that turned the Sunnis against them.

yermom
2/2/2008, 03:31 PM
who exactly are "these people"?

do you really think people should be alleviated of human rights based on hearsay and no trial? no record of them being held even?

crawfish
2/2/2008, 03:40 PM
And to think, there are Americans who think we are the bad guys for locking up these a-holes and throwing away the key when we catch them alive.

I don't think it's these guys we have trouble locking up. It's the fact that we hold some people indefinitely with very little evidence of their wrongdoing. Assuming guilt until innocence is proven should be anathema to all Americans.

These guys, tho...toss the key into the bottom of the ocean.

Jerk
2/2/2008, 03:42 PM
who exactly are "these people"?

do you really think people should be alleviated of human rights based on hearsay and no trial? no record of them being held even?

The simple solution is to turn "them" over to the Iraqi government.

yermom
2/2/2008, 03:42 PM
well, anyone they convince to do that is probably just a hair below retarded anyway

Okla-homey
2/2/2008, 03:50 PM
who exactly are "these people"?

do you really think people should be alleviated of human rights based on hearsay and no trial? no record of them being held even?

So many queations. Where is this codification of universal human rights published? And on whom is it binding? Does it apply everywhere, or just on the US? Who enforces it? The Justice League? Aquaman? Batman?;)

Okla-homey
2/2/2008, 03:52 PM
I don't think it's these guys we have trouble locking up. It's the fact that we hold some people indefinitely with very little evidence of their wrongdoing. Assuming guilt until innocence is proven should be anathema to all Americans.



...but its still okay to bomb or shoot them on sight right? I sure hope so, otherwise, we gotta revamp the law of armed conflict.;)

SicEmBaylor
2/2/2008, 03:54 PM
who exactly are "these people"?

do you really think people should be alleviated of human rights based on hearsay and no trial? no record of them being held even?
I would say yes they do. Beyond the fact that they're armed enemies of the United States and not criminals, they follow none of the conventions of wafare that would entitle them to that preferred treatment.

Any terrorist caught on US territory should probably be given a proper trial, but for the ones we catch overseas actively engaged against US forces, I have no problems simply executing them as soon as we've wrestled whatever intelligence they may have from them.

OU Adonis
2/2/2008, 04:06 PM
I am a bit hazy on my Geneva Convention rules, but if I recall correctly, anyone in an armed conflict that does not wear a uniform can be considered spy and/or rebel. Rebels/insurgents have no protection under the Geneva Convention. They can be shot on sight.

Frozen Sooner
2/2/2008, 04:12 PM
So many queations. Where is this codification of universal human rights published? And on whom is it binding? Does it apply everywhere, or just on the US? Who enforces it? The Justice League? Aquaman? Batman?;)

Hm. The notion that there are universal rights. I wonder where that would be codified...


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That first post was a neat avoidance of a straw man, though. I'm sure you can find a couple of people who actually have a beef with locking people who turn Down Syndrome sufferers into bombs, so yes, some people DO hold the view that you ascribe to them. I think the vast majority-well more than 99%-are pretty much OK with locking them up so long as it is proven that they're actually responsible.

Heck, I'm good with locking actual combatants up without trial if they're apprehended in flagrante derelicto or on the basis of good and solid evidence.

Whet
2/2/2008, 04:48 PM
I'd lock them up on the basis of fair/poor and weak evidence....

yermom
2/2/2008, 04:59 PM
Heck, I'm good with locking actual combatants up without trial if they're apprehended in flagrante derelicto or on the basis of good and solid evidence.

i'd agree with that, you find Hajji armed and engaging the good guys? throw him in a hole somewhere.

now, if he knows someone that knows someone that helped someone bomb something... that's another story.

how do you know who is locked up for what if they don't have access to lawyers, aren't even acknowledged to exist...

this just scares me with all the "Domestic Terrorism" laws they are pushing

one day Jerk is going to disappear and we won't ever know what happened to him...

Whet
2/2/2008, 05:01 PM
this just scares me with all the "Domestic Terrorism" laws they are pushing

one day Jerk is going to disappear and we won't ever know what happened to him...

I could see something like that happening if those Clintons get back in!

crawfish
2/2/2008, 06:38 PM
...but its still okay to bomb or shoot them on sight right? I sure hope so, otherwise, we gotta revamp the law of armed conflict.;)

Like the rule that says we gotta declare a war?

Technically, we are not abiding by the rules of war in Guantanamo. And I worry when our government decides that there are laws it does not have to abide by simply because we don't want to.

jk the sooner fan
2/2/2008, 07:01 PM
i wouldnt call it an act of barbarity as much as i would call it desperation

SicEmBaylor
2/2/2008, 07:22 PM
i wouldnt call it an act of barbarity as much as i would call it desperation

That's sort of what I was thinking. I think they may be having problems recruiting people to kill themselves

Frozen Sooner
2/2/2008, 07:25 PM
Despite the evidence to the contrary (i.e. that your average suicide bomber is well-educated) I would almost think that strapping a bomb to yourself as a method of killing other people would pretty much qualify you as at least mentally challenged.

Reminds me of a Greg Girard bit. Terrorist Mastermind? Where's the evil genius involved in telling a guy to strap a bomb to himself and get on a bus? I can see the conversation now "OK, so what you do is you strap a bomb to yourself and get on the bus.." "Why do I have to strap a bomb to myself? Why not just leave a bomb on the bus" "WHO'S THE ****ING MASTERMIND HERE??"

SoonerBorn68
2/2/2008, 07:33 PM
I'd lock them up on the basis of fair/poor and weak evidence....

I'd bring them back to the US by ship but conveniently "lose" them about halfway back.

Hey, sharks gotta eat too.

bluedogok
2/2/2008, 07:37 PM
I could see something like that happening if those Clintons get back in!
I could see that happening no matter which party is in the office. After all, more rights have been eroded in the last 7 years under a Neo-Con president in the name of "patriotism" than under the previous regimes of the last 30+ years.

Whet
2/2/2008, 08:05 PM
I could see that happening no matter which party is in the office. After all, more rights have been eroded in the last 7 years under a Neo-Con president in the name of "patriotism" than under the previous regimes of the last 30+ years.

I don't recall this president gathering all of the citizens of Arabic desent and shipping them to special detention facilities, like the leftist Franky Roosevelt did the the Japanese-Americans in the 40's....

Dang neoleftists!

jk the sooner fan
2/2/2008, 08:58 PM
Despite the evidence to the contrary (i.e. that your average suicide bomber is well-educated) I would almost think that strapping a bomb to yourself as a method of killing other people would pretty much qualify you as at least mentally challenged.

Reminds me of a Greg Girard bit. Terrorist Mastermind? Where's the evil genius involved in telling a guy to strap a bomb to himself and get on a bus? I can see the conversation now "OK, so what you do is you strap a bomb to yourself and get on the bus.." "Why do I have to strap a bomb to myself? Why not just leave a bomb on the bus" "WHO'S THE ****ING MASTERMIND HERE??"

thats a handy way of looking at it, but really you and I dont have a smidgen of understanding as to how those people actually think

educated? no, most likely not.....devout? most certainly

yermom
2/2/2008, 09:16 PM
I don't recall this president gathering all of the citizens of Arabic desent and shipping them to special detention facilities, like the leftist Franky Roosevelt did the the Japanese-Americans in the 40's....

Dang neoleftists!

well, to be fair that was more than 30 years ago :D

Whet
2/2/2008, 09:40 PM
under the previous regimes of the last 30+ years.


Yep, 30+

StoopTroup
2/2/2008, 09:46 PM
Well...at least we're winning.

John McCain said so.

:pop:

usmc-sooner
2/2/2008, 09:47 PM
I could see that happening no matter which party is in the office. After all, more rights have been eroded in the last 7 years under a Neo-Con president in the name of "patriotism" than under the previous regimes of the last 30+ years.

you haven't lost one right

AggieTool
2/2/2008, 09:51 PM
As soon as we find those dern aluminum tubes and yellowcake, we should bring those SOBs to justice!:mad:

usmc-sooner
2/2/2008, 09:55 PM
As soon as we find those dern aluminum tubes and yellowcake, we should bring those SOBs to justice!:mad:

one of them already had justice served at the end of a rope

AggieTool
2/2/2008, 09:58 PM
one of them already had justice served at the end of a rope

Thank goodness!:mad:

After all..he WAS after my freeberty.:)

usmc-sooner
2/2/2008, 10:03 PM
Thank goodness!:mad:

After all..he WAS after my freeberty.:)

he was putting bounties on the heads of Americans, and was willing to financially support our enemies.

jk the sooner fan
2/2/2008, 10:05 PM
dont waste your time usmc - he's like many who believe there was no threat over there

the whole damn world thought they had WMD - but they'll ignore that and believe Bush was the only one

bluedogok
2/2/2008, 10:11 PM
you haven't lost one right
"Officially" Yes, keep telling yourself that.

....but we have become "One Nation under Surveillance" even moreso than before because now they have more tools and latitude to do pretty much whatever the hell they want. I guess that I just see the "slippery slope" that lies ahead if the government is allowed free reign to do whatever they wish in pursuit of "the cause". That said, I don't really trust either party over the other as the machine that runs thing is larger than either party and just keeps going.

Is that "tinfoil" enough for ya :D

usmc-sooner
2/2/2008, 10:12 PM
"Officially" Yes, keep telling yourself that.

....but we have become "One Nation under Surveillance" even moreso than before because now they have more tools and latitude to do pretty much whatever the hell they want. I guess that I just see the "slippery slope" that lies ahead if the government is allowed free reign to do whatever they wish in pursuit of "the cause". That said, I don't really trust either party over the other as the machine that runs thing is larger than either party and just keeps going.

Is that "tinfoil" enough for ya :D

BS your life aint no different now than it was before, if it is I bet it's better.

AggieTool
2/2/2008, 10:16 PM
he was putting bounties on the heads of Americans, and was willing to financially support our enemies.

Well considering we financially supported him for years....:)

AggieTool
2/2/2008, 10:19 PM
dont waste your time usmc - he's like many who believe there was no threat over there

the whole damn world thought they had WMD - but they'll ignore that and believe Bush was the only one


Do you read your own posts?:confused:

You said:"many who believe there was no threat over there"

Then you said:"whole damn world thought they had WMD"

Ergo, there really was no threat.:)

Breadburner
2/2/2008, 10:20 PM
What do the women get......

bluedogok
2/2/2008, 10:24 PM
BS your life aint no different now than it was before, if it is I bet it's better.
My life isn't any different, but I can guarantee you that some are not as lucky. There is ALWAYS collateral damage, you should know that better than anyone.

With the data mining that they do, it isn't just about the possible information of terrorists, foreign or domestic. That information is being compiled daily about all of us "just in case" it might be needed. I know, we just finished a facility for a company that does this work for the CIA, NSA, FBI, etc. There are possibilities that it could be used against those who the gov't deems as enemies whether they are are not or any new classification of terrorists that they dream up. Like the one judge who claimed someone that failed to pay his taxes (yes, that is wrong) as an "economic terrorist". I don't doubt that powers can and will always be expanded under they are what we grew up hating. This gov't has moved closer and closer to those socialist regimes of the past in more ways than one.


BillingsGazette.com - Laurel tax protester, wife face trial (http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2007/11/27/news/local/30-laurel.txt)

[snippage]

Earlier this month, Senior U.S. District Judge Charles Lovell in Helena sentenced Becker to 27 months in prison and ordered $91,700 restitution plus $1,700 in prosecution costs. Lovell said Becker could be viewed as an "economic terrorist" similar to the anti-government Montana Freemen.

AggieTool
2/2/2008, 10:27 PM
My life isn't any different, but I can guarantee you that some are not as lucky. There is ALWAYS collateral damage, you should know that better than anyone.

With the data mining that they do, it isn't just about the possible information of terrorists, foreign or domestic. That information is being compiled daily about all of us "just in case" it might be needed. I know, we just finished a facility for a company that does this work for the CIA, NSA, FBI, etc. There are possibilities that it could be used against those who the gov't deems as enemies whether they are are not or any new classification of terrorists that they dream up. Like the one judge who claimed someone that failed to pay his taxes (yes, that is wrong) as an "economic terrorist". I don't doubt that powers can and will always be expanded under they are what we grew up hating. This gov't has moved closer and closer to those socialist regimes of the past in more ways than one.

I just seen yer from Austin. That explains volumes.:O

Newsflash!

You're not interesting enough for the gov to violate yer rights.:D

GottaHavePride
2/2/2008, 10:43 PM
So many queations. Where is this codification of universal human rights published? And on whom is it binding? Does it apply everywhere, or just on the US? Who enforces it? The Justice League? Aquaman? Batman?;)

http://drmcninja.com/images/wwbdshirt.gif

Sooner_Bob
2/2/2008, 10:44 PM
I hadn't heard that they used folks suffering from downs syndrome. IMO that's not much different than using children.

I can't believe they did that.

bluedogok
2/2/2008, 11:07 PM
I just seen yer from Austin. That explains volumes.:O
I am FROM OKC, I live in Austin, I have been here for 5 years, I spent 37 years in OKC.



Newsflash!

You're not interesting enough for the gov to violate yer rights.:D
THANKFULLY I am not interesting enough, I plan to keep it that way.

Y'all can have "blind trust" in the gov't, I am a bit more skeptical. I always have been.


I hadn't heard that they used folks suffering from downs syndrome. IMO that's not much different than using children.

I can't believe they did that.
It doesn't suprise me, they have absolutely no regard for human life, except their own since they send women and children to perform the acts they want done. They are the slime in the bottom of a sewer and are a blight on humanity.

Whet
2/2/2008, 11:11 PM
"Economic terrorist" designation - Now, the rest of the story



That was the view of U.S. District Court Senior Judge Charles Lovell Thursday as he expressed disbelief of Rolan Becker’s refusal to admit his guilt and his continued refusal to pay taxes — even after being convicted in May of three counts of tax evasion.

Lovell discussed at length the reasons behind his sentence for the Ronan resident.

“Mr. Becker is a mature and apparently intelligent, well-educated individual who seems to have determined that he can declare himself exempt from income taxes,” Lovell said. “One of the things that makes it difficult to believe that he was able to evade those taxes is the fact that he has been a quasi-employee of the United States government for the past (12) years.

Becker was a forester for the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes.

“In addition to that, he has received government benefits … and I will never understand how he could believe the United States could pay his salary through the tribe if people like him didn’t pay their taxes to the government,” Lovell said.


Becker, a slight, wiry man, appeared defiant as he stood before the judge with his arms crossed in front of him. He told Lovell that he “regrets that it came to this” and continued not paying taxes because he assumed he would appeal the jury’s verdict before he was sentenced.

“What I did was a function of my belief system and wasn’t a malicious attempt to deprive anyone of anything,” Becker said. “I was forthcoming in terms of telling the IRS where I stood. I wasn’t sneaking around. It was part of my core values based on research that I had done. I made a decision based on that and now I will live with the consequences of it.”

During Becker’s three-day trial, his attorney, Lowell Becraft Jr., didn’t dispute that his client hadn’t paid his taxes since 2000. Instead, he argued that his client read books, listened to tapes and attended seminars in which he was told that tax laws didn’t apply to him, and he believed what he heard.

That belief meant Becker was acting in good faith when he didn’t pay the taxes or file the returns in 2000, 2001 and 2002, so he didn’t have the criminal intent needed to convict him of tax evasion, Becraft argued.

“Rolan Becker was a law-abiding citizen until the events that gave rise to this issue,” Becraft said.

Becker filed false W-4 forms with the IRS so that he wouldn’t have federal taxes taken out of his paycheck beginning in 2000, and conveyed his home and vehicles to limited liability corporations to put them beyond the grasp of the tax man.

During the trial, U.S. Attorney Kris McLean noted that Becker walked into an IRS office and told them he wasn’t going to file any tax returns because he didn’t owe taxes, and that there isn’t any reason to file false W-4 forms unless someone is planning to evade taxes.

Even without McLean’s statements, Lovell wasn’t about to grant Becker any leniency, and in fact added time and restitution to his sentence for not paying taxes from 2003 until 2006 — a time frame that Becker hadn’t even been prosecuted for.

Lovell noted that it was within his realm to do so, and urged McLean to consider filing charges against Becker for trying to hide his assets by transferring the title of real estate he owned, and his car, to the LLC Becker had formed.

“… That otherwise would be called fraudulent conveyance in bankruptcy court,” Lovell said. “He’s avoiding payment of his creditors and tries to put his property out of reach of creditors by conveying the title.

“In addition — and the number is quite large — the evidence showed that at one point he conveyed his property back to himself so he could take out a $168,000 loan on the property, after which he conveyed it back to the corporation so it no longer would be in his name.”

In 2000, Lovell presided over the trial of Freeman LeRoy Schweitzer, a member of a group of anti-government activists who also maintained they didn’t have to pay taxes. On Thursday, Lovell compared Becker to the Freeman, noting that his acts were openly aggressive.

“You are probably the most flagrant protester and tax dodger that I have seen,” Lovell said. “It makes one wonder where the United States government would be in today’s world if everybody took the same attitude as this defendant. The government would be brought into total disarray.

“I know there are those who would see the defendant as an economic terrorist because of the very acts he advocates. His dedication and commitment and his greed are destructive to the system of government in this country.”

AggieTool
2/2/2008, 11:22 PM
I am FROM OKC, I live in Austin, I have been here for 5 years, I spent 37 years in OKC.



THANKFULLY I am not interesting enough, I plan to keep it that way.

Y'all can have "blind trust" in the gov't, I am a bit more skeptical. I always have been.


It doesn't suprise me, they have absolutely no regard for human life, except their own since they send women and children to perform the acts they want done. They are the slime in the bottom of a sewer and are a blight on humanity.


Love yer dog! I gotz me a red one.:)

Frozen Sooner
2/3/2008, 12:56 AM
thats a handy way of looking at it, but really you and I dont have a smidgen of understanding as to how those people actually think

educated? no, most likely not.....devout? most certainly

http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/security/articles/sec_0049.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1692740,00.html

Educated? Most likely so.

Devout? Certainly.

Horribly misguided and brainwashed into an unreasoning hatred? Absolutely.