"Don't Blame The Players Who Turn Pro" B. Tramel

[PLaw]

Here's an interesting response to Tramel's column in today's DOK:

Quote: "Hey, no problem. Since the entire taxpayer base of the state subsidizes these athletes' education, and these athletes are simply interested in being at a recognized training camp for the NFL teams, let's treat it like they want, a business. When they leave for the NFL without graduating, dun them the cost of their education, including scholarships, training table costs, class tutors, etc, and place a lien against their NFL contracted salary. Let's get rid of all the romance while we are at it. I think Barry has just opened a whole new avenue of thought about college ball and its relationship to big business." == Pawpaw, Ardmore - Jan 16, 2008 8:33 AM <<<

Not sure I totally agree, but I wish I had written it.

BOOMER

[Curly Bill]

So, should they in turn dun the universities they play for to gain part of the revenue they helped to generate by playing for those universities?

This is a stupid idea.

We are making far more money off these kids then we are in return giving them.

[sooneron]

^ what he said.

[schlanker]

This guy is a moron. The athletic department is run by donations, tv profits, and the rest of the ways they make revenue. Because of these players people on the baseball, softball, waterpolo, and whatever other non revenue sports get free education.

We should be thanking them for not having to pay for another year of college that they arent going to utilize anyways.

You cant blame people in a capitalistic society for wanting to make lots of money.

[OUmillenium]

Good post by CurlyBill(as usual) and schlanker.

[sooneron]

Good post by CurlyBill(as usual) and schlanker.
bastard

[PLaw]

So, should they in turn dun the universities they play for to gain part of the revenue they helped to generate by playing for those universities?

This is a stupid idea.

We are making far more money off these kids then we are in return giving them.

Yeah, I'm in that middle ground on this one.

You've got to figure the kids are knocking down $25-50K per year between free prime room and board, medical, personal training, tuition, books, fees, tutoring, and other services. Oh yeah, if they take full advantage of the scholly, then they come out with a good education.

To recoup those costs from the few kids that elect to go into the draft is pretty much chump change in the big picture. That said, there may be enough money to fund the Title IX required girl's tiddliewinks team.

BOOMER

[Dan Thompson]

My new NFL rule. You must graduate from college where you played to be considered for the NFL.

When a player leaves for the NFL, if he is not picked and does not tryout for any teams, can he come back?

[Jacie]

If they have the money to pay, yes. But they don't get to play anymore even if they had eligibility remaining.

[Curly Bill]

My new NFL rule. You must graduate from college where you played to be considered for the NFL.

What about anyone else that starts college, must they too graduate before they can seek gainful employment?

[rhombic21]

Wait a second. So he thinks schools like OU should make Millions of dollars off of guys like Adrian Peterson and Malcolm Kelly, who essentially play for free (based on what professional athletes make and what the school makes off of them), and should then not only not be able to be paid for playing, but should actually have to repay the school when they turn pro, essentially meaning that those 3 years where they earned the school all of that money was completely free? Based on what exactly?

[yermom]

When a player leaves for the NFL, if he is not picked and does not tryout for any teams, can he come back?

basically, no.

i think the rules on this are dumb.

if a player isn't drafted or is drafted late, i don't understand why he can't just go back and play in college again. i don't understand the nature of the rules and why there are deadlines for declaring, etc... unless it has to do with recruiting, but that seems even more shady

[goingoneight]

Last I heard, it was boosters and organizations like the Sooner Club that paid for schollies, not taxpayers. I'm not certain on that much, but I do know the program supports itself and generates millions year in and out for the state and conference, so all of the bitching about what it costs is useless. Same can be said for how much we pay OUr coaching staff. They're one of the best and their product supports itself.

[goingoneight]

basically, no.

i think the rules on this are dumb.

if a player isn't drafted or is drafted late, i don't understand why he can't just go back and play in college again. i don't understand the nature of the rules and why there are deadlines for declaring, etc... unless it has to do with recruiting, but that seems even more shady

Because a lot of guys sign with agents and whatnot after college when they leave early and the NCAA just says once you're out, you're out. One of the few things I agree with the NCAA on.

[DangTire]

So, should they in turn dun the universities they play for to gain part of the revenue they helped to generate by playing for those universities?

This is a stupid idea.

We are making far more money off these kids then we are in return giving them.

+1

[Scott D]

basically, no.

i think the rules on this are dumb.

if a player isn't drafted or is drafted late, i don't understand why he can't just go back and play in college again. i don't understand the nature of the rules and why there are deadlines for declaring, etc... unless it has to do with recruiting, but that seems even more shady

well the bigger issue in regards to that, is that while said player goes to do the try to make the nfl thing they'd be ineligible for the upcoming season regardless. Mike Williams is the poster boy for why you make damn sure it's the right time to make that decision.

[Desert Sapper]

I think it is good that the NFL protects these guys for three years. Agents are some of the slimiest creatures on the planet. Most players are not ready for the league physically, mentally, or emotionally until their eligibility has run out (and even many of them are unready).

[AZSOONER]

Because a lot of guys sign with agents and whatnot after college when they leave early and the NCAA just says once you're out, you're out. One of the few things I agree with the NCAA on.
You can go play pro baseball, soccer, basketball, etc. and come back and play college football, I think you should be able to enter the draft, if not selected where you want or by who you want, you say no and go back to college, any deal with an agent become void and life goes on.

[Civicus_Sooner]

You can go play pro baseball, soccer, basketball, etc. and come back and play college football, I think you should be able to enter the draft, if not selected where you want or by who you want, you say no and go back to college, any deal with an agent become void and life goes on.
That would make the draft a waste of time for NFL teams.

[Vaevictis]

That would make the draft a waste of time for NFL teams.

Not that the NCAA rules committee should give a **** about that.

But by the same token, the NCAA can only decide to reinstate eligibility; they can't void agent contracts or NFL draft rights.

[tulsaoilerfan]

basically, no.

i think the rules on this are dumb.

if a player isn't drafted or is drafted late, i don't understand why he can't just go back and play in college again. i don't understand the nature of the rules and why there are deadlines for declaring, etc... unless it has to do with recruiting, but that seems even more shady
Because when it comes right down to it the NCAA doesn't give a squat about the kids; i think that if a kid doesn't sign with an agent and isn't drafted they should let him come back and play in college

[snp]

What a crybaby. Maybe we should just sign players with no NFL potential so this trend ends.

Getting players to the NFL looks great for any program even if they're leaving early. The program will be fine.

[snp]

Because when it comes right down to it the NCAA doesn't give a squat about the kids; i think that if a kid doesn't sign with an agent and isn't drafted they should let him come back and play in college

Players sign in Feburary and the draft isn't until late April. This year we could have had 10 guys who might have staked their claim in the draft. What is going to happen to the incoming class if all the potential draft picks return and remain on scholarship? The coaches need to know before the draft how many scholarships they can dole out.

[crimson&cream]

So, should they in turn dun the universities they play for to gain part of the revenue they helped to generate by playing for those universities?

This is a stupid idea.

We are making far more money off these kids then we are in return giving them.
No you miss the concept they would then actually being dunning the Univ for something given to them for free,well in lieu of you playing for us with conditions. plus the coaching they recieve helps enchance their getting to the Pros, maybe a value should be put on that also.
I work with a fellow who played DE at "Ole Miss" and his sentiment is the same,if you leave early instead of staying out your commitment to the Univ you should have to pay back the expense the Univ and taxpayers were out, since the Athletic programs are not in it for profit like a private buiness is.
I know many on here slamed Gundy for pulling scholly's from commited players, thus not living up to his commitment to the recruit. But. a kid who leaves before his expected 4 yrs is up is OK, how do you reconclie the different standards.
What would you have thought if Stoops had called in 3/4 players before the season and told them I have decided to pull your scholly's as I now have different expectations and plans.
He'd get crucified by fans and the media.
As far as making more money off these kids than get in return is total BS if you figure total cost of providing them a scholly,s and all that goes with that -like transportation to away games, upkeep of room dorms,utilities,payroll for in the support positions etc etc etc. Many programs operate in the red we're lucky in the regard.
But, let suppose your right how then do you still get by living up to your word/commitment as scholly's even tho are 1 yr contracts no coach is in a frame of mind when offering a scholly that it's only for 1,2,3 yrs , but for 4 out of 5 yrs of eligibility.
Contracts in sports are a joke, commitments in sports are becoming a joke.
I will say college players should be given a stripen.

[PalmBeachSooner1]

^ what he said.

I completely agree. These players bring in millions. Let them go earn it once they can. We all hate to see them leave, but who can blame them?

[crimson&cream]

What about anyone else that starts college, must they too graduate before they can seek gainful employment?
Big difference those not on schollys aren't getting a free education etc so if they quit early so be it, those who are on some sort of scholly other than one tied to a revenue generating activity such as FB, Baskebal etc aren't there in lieu of helping genrerate revenue to sustain a revenue producing activity such as FB, so there is no commitment on the others to stay a commitment and sustain a program, so if they leave early or before graduation so be it.
It might have been better if the above poster had stated they can't opt for the NFL until their eligibilty yrs have passed whether they graduate or not.
Do your really think Coach Stoops is a happy camper in private , he may say he's happy for those leaving early and may be in a sense ,but in private I'll bet he's extremely disappointed.
But since this is the nature of the beast as it stands now- so be it.

[crimson&cream]

Let me put it another way. You graduate and start your own successful business,and you recruit BOB's Best of the Best, fresh college graduates, you train them and give them experience etc. then several of them every yr after all your companies hard work when they start returning to you on your investment with great productivity, they start opting out of your company to go accross town to another company that pays better who wouldn't hired them until they gained some experience like your Co. gave them like college do for thr Pros. Your not going to be disappointed/pi$$ed. Hey like you say about players, same goes for them leaving early- go for it- I don't blame them- how can you begrudge them to better themselves, especially if you can't compete money wise just like college can't with the NFL.

[crimson&cream]

I completely agree. These players bring in millions. Let them go earn it once they can. We all hate to see them leave, but who can blame them?
Of course they bring in millions otherwise how would colleges pay for their free education and ALL the cost that incurs.

[snp]

Let me put it another way. You graduate and start your own successful business,and you recruit BOB's Best of the Best, fresh college graduates, you train them and give them experience etc. then several of them every yr after all your companies hard work when they start returning to you on your investment with great productivity, they start opting out of your company to go accross town to another company that pays better who wouldn't hired them until they gained some experience like your Co. gave them like college do for thr Pros. Your not going to be disappointed/pi$$ed. Hey like you say about players, same goes for them leaving early- go for it- I don't blame them- how can you begrudge them to better themselves, especially if you can't compete money wise just like college can't with the NFL.

If your successful business can't handle 3% employee turnover and lure other promising young stud replacements then maybe you should consider a career change.

[Curly Bill]

If your successful business can't handle 3% employee turnover and lure other promising young stud replacements then maybe you should consider a career change.

Maybe what he's saying is if you train them, give them experience, etc...they should be in sort of an indentured servitude to you until they have paid off their debts to you for getting them ready for the workforce. Sort of like the Medieval guilds. ;)

So that's it: place our football playing dudes in indentured servitude, and they can't leave until they have earned their freedom. :D

[crimson&cream]

If your successful business can't handle 3% employee turnover and lure other promising young stud replacements then maybe you should consider a career change.
OH what small minds it's just an anology to make a point-simple as that.Plus I didn't use - new employees were ask to commit to stay at least 4 yrs like HS players are when offered a scholly, and even if it is only a 3 % turnover and your business can adjust just like OU FB with 3 % leaving will, Am I to assmue even if it's only 3 % of your employees leaving it still wouldn't pi$$ you off after all the time, tng and money invested in these new employees to see them up and leave just when they are a real benefit to your company. Damn you have a thick skin.
And where did I say they had to stay,but I'm sure your company would like them to stay just like Stoops would prefer players to stay as he did during a press conference when he even pointed out the advantages of players staying all the way around just like good employees staying. Jeeze!

[goingoneight]

It sucks to see guys leave early, but am I the only oen here who enjoys the change?
I don't know about you all, but some of the most exciting things I've seen in recent years are how the team responds to losing playmakers.
Seeing PT take the reigns again and win a BIG 12 Championship in the end was awesome.
Seeing Sam Bradford come out and play like he did was cool also.
There's going to be a lot of interesting things that happen next year. Lots of 2007 playmakers gone, a few of the unsung heroes get their chance to shine.

If you hold onto all of your Roy Williams and Malcom Kellys in you heart and never let them go, you never know who steps in and tears it up the next season. It also helps recruiting tremendously to see these kids getting to the next level... we end up signing Adrian Petersons and Malcom Kellys because of OUr success in that department.

[crimson&cream]

[QUOTE=goingoneight]It sucks to see guys leave early, but am I the only oen here who enjoys the change?
I don't know about you all, but some of the most exciting things I've seen in recent years are how the team responds to losing playmakers.
Seeing PT take the reigns again and win a BIG 12 Championship in the end was awesome.
Seeing Sam Bradford come out and play like he did was cool also.
There's going to be a lot of interesting things that happen next year. Lots of 2007 playmakers gone, a few of the unsung heroes get their chance to shine.

If you hold onto all of your Roy Williams and Malcom Kellys in you heart and never let them go,


Who on here advocated never letting them go which you can't do.

[Crucifax Autumn]

If it's a 4th year junior I have no problem with it, but I do think they should stick around for four years, hopefully pick up some kinda degree, enjoy a full college experience, gain the poise and knowledge that only comes from maturity, experience, and the academic environment.

But those guys that leave...I hope they do as well as AD, despite the fact that it will encourage future players to try the same.

[snp]

OH what small minds it's just an anology to make a point-simple as that.Plus I didn't use - new employees were ask to commit to stay at least 4 yrs like HS players are when offered a scholly, and even if it is only a 3 % turnover and your business can adjust just like OU FB with 3 % leaving will, Am I to assmue even if it's only 3 % of your employees leaving it still wouldn't pi$$ you off after all the time, tng and money invested in these new employees to see them up and leave just when they are a real benefit to your company. Damn you have a thick skin.
And where did I say they had to stay,but I'm sure your company would like them to stay just like Stoops would prefer players to stay as he did during a press conference when he even pointed out the advantages of players staying all the way around just like good employees staying. Jeeze!

Forget it I quit. I don't feel like having to decipher your writing anymore.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Forget it I quit. I don't feel like having to decipher your writing anymore.

You just need to get the Little Orphan Annie decoder ring! It may turn out to be nothing more than a plug for Ovaltine, but it may also reveal the secrets of the universe and Crimson & Cream's secret language!

[hellogoodbye]

Another factor that is hardly mentioned is the fact that schollys get pulled by coaches \universities too. Like airlines that overbook flights. Sorry kid, we know you signed this here letter, but Billy Bluechip just flaked out of his commitment to our rival and, ... well.... you know .... good luck out there....

[Animal Mother]

This guy is a moron. The athletic department is run by donations, tv profits, and the rest of the ways they make revenue. Because of these players people on the baseball, softball, waterpolo, and whatever other non revenue sports get free education.

We should be thanking them for not having to pay for another year of college that they arent going to utilize anyways.

You cant blame people in a capitalistic society for wanting to make lots of money.

Hey!!! That’s not fair to the other morons!!!
Tramel is a household name in his own household.

[Stoop Dawg]

We are making far more money off these kids then we are in return giving them.

Who is "we"? Because it certainly isn't me.

[snp]

Another factor that is hardly mentioned is the fact that schollys get pulled by coaches \universities too. Like airlines that overbook flights. Sorry kid, we know you signed this here letter, but Billy Bluechip just flaked out of his commitment to our rival and, ... well.... you know .... good luck out there....

Just because osu does it to all their recruits doesn't mean it's the norm across the nation. Gundy is going to **** off a lot of Texas HS coaches with his crap.

Coaches will also inform the kids that they are way behind in the depth chart and may consider transferring.

[PLaw]

Another factor that is hardly mentioned is the fact that schollys get pulled by coaches \universities too. Like airlines that overbook flights. Sorry kid, we know you signed this here letter, but Billy Bluechip just flaked out of his commitment to our rival and, ... well.... you know .... good luck out there....

Spot on - I worked for a guy that played with Mike when Bobby was a GA. He was a walk on that got a lot of playing time - they would give him a scholly in the fall when one of their blue chippers flunked out or got kicked off the team for breaking rules. They would pull the scholly in the spring to give to another blue chip wunderkid.

BOOMER