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View Full Version : No Shame in Losing to KSU-- Just Watch



OUSKINS
1/13/2008, 03:12 PM
First of all, let me say that I believe KSU is a poorly coached team overall, and I think they will probably continue to lose some baffling games because of it.

However,

Mark my words...KSU is quite possibly the MOST talented team (at the top anyway) of any team in college hoops.

Let me put it this way...if were an NBA GM and you gave me a choice between Kevin Durant, Greg Oden, and Michael Beasley, I would choose Beasley w/o hesitation. Not even for a second. And this takes NOTHING away from the other two.

Michael Beasley is a superstar. The best college freshmen I've seen in a loooooong time and IMO, the clear player of the year in college basketball this year.

Beasley is a total beast. Assuming he keeps his head on straight, the sky is the limit.

And two years ago at this time, Bill Walker was being mentioned in the same breath with Lebron James. Now, those comparisons were silly of course, but the kid has immense talent. NBA talent. The rest of the team is fairly solid as well. Not deep like KU or UNC, but neither of those teams has a player on the same level with Beasley-- and in basketball, sometimes that's all you need.

OU played excellent basketball yesterday. Our offense was very good and believe it or not, I was happy with the defense. There were a few missed defensive rebounds that upset me and a few obvious breakdowns, but overall KSU just made really tough shots. Beasley is a monster around the basket, but we continually kept him out of the paint, only to have him sink 15 foot jumpers with a hand in his face. What else can you do?

And the KSU guards hit some three's with people right in their grill. The three that Clent Stewert hit at the end, had to be arched way up to avoid being blocked.

Blake Griffin was a stud yesterday, a total beast. He was ultra-impressive, yet he was definitely not the best player on the floor.

OU is good folks...not great, but good. We're going to make the Big Dance this year, just watch.

Yes, I think we'll start off 0-2 in the Big 12 and then rally and finish with 9-10 wins. I do think KSU will stumble here and there due to the coaching issues I mentioned earlier, but make no mistake, Huggins left them with some unreal pure talent.

That was the only game Michael Beasley will play at LNC...Thank God.

SoonerShark
1/13/2008, 03:34 PM
Of course, Beasley appears to be a protected player since no fouls were called on him until the second half relatively late in the game. Further, there was a foul where the KSU player charged into Blake, which was was not called. In fact, the game should have been decided when Blake was at the foul line and the game knotted at 82, not when the KSU player fouled him and dished off the pass for the Beasley lay-in. The announcers stated that the game would be decided by the play on the court and not by the refs, which means that it is okay to not have the actual rules enforced. Was Waymon Tisdale as protected in 1982-83 as Beasley is in 2007-08?

OUmillenium
1/13/2008, 05:43 PM
Thanks for the game breakdown. I tried to watch it but the choppy video almost gave me a seisure. Went to see Bob Hoffman's team play the Tulsa 66ers instead. Kevin Bookout was on the team but recently reinjured his shoulder. Quannas White practiced with them Thursday night but he was not suited up Sat and 3 new guys were. He may have been involved in some personnel changes.

OUmillenium
1/13/2008, 05:44 PM
Just read this on the 66ers website...

The Vipers were also without starting point guard Quannas White, who left the team to deal with personal family matters.

Salt City Sooner
1/13/2008, 06:02 PM
Of course, Beasley appears to be a protected player since no fouls were called on him until the second half relatively late in the game. Further, there was a foul where the KSU player charged into Blake, which was was not called. In fact, the game should have been decided when Blake was at the foul line and the game knotted at 82, not when the KSU player fouled him and dished off the pass for the Beasley lay-in. The announcers stated that the game would be decided by the play on the court and not by the refs, which means that it is okay to not have the actual rules enforced. Was Waymon Tisdale as protected in 1982-83 as Beasley is in 2007-08?
It was a player control foul (if it had been called), thus, no free throws.

rubyspirit
1/13/2008, 08:42 PM
I wanted to go to the game so bad, but a friend wanted me to go to a movie instead. The score shows I missed a good one.

MextheBulldog
1/13/2008, 10:22 PM
KSU does have some major talent.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/14/2008, 10:13 AM
First of all, let me say that I believe KSU is a poorly coached team overall, and I think they will probably continue to lose some baffling games because of it.

However,

Mark my words...KSU is quite possibly the MOST talented team (at the top anyway) of any team in college hoops.

Let me put it this way...if were an NBA GM and you gave me a choice between Kevin Durant, Greg Oden, and Michael Beasley, I would choose Beasley w/o hesitation. Not even for a second. And this takes NOTHING away from the other two.

Michael Beasley is a superstar. The best college freshmen I've seen in a loooooong time and IMO, the clear player of the year in college basketball this year.

Beasley is a total beast. Assuming he keeps his head on straight, the sky is the limit.

And two years ago at this time, Bill Walker was being mentioned in the same breath with Lebron James. Now, those comparisons were silly of course, but the kid has immense talent. NBA talent. The rest of the team is fairly solid as well. Not deep like KU or UNC, but neither of those teams has a player on the same level with Beasley-- and in basketball, sometimes that's all you need.

OU played excellent basketball yesterday. Our offense was very good and believe it or not, I was happy with the defense. There were a few missed defensive rebounds that upset me and a few obvious breakdowns, but overall KSU just made really tough shots. Beasley is a monster around the basket, but we continually kept him out of the paint, only to have him sink 15 foot jumpers with a hand in his face. What else can you do?

And the KSU guards hit some three's with people right in their grill. The three that Clent Stewert hit at the end, had to be arched way up to avoid being blocked.

Blake Griffin was a stud yesterday, a total beast. He was ultra-impressive, yet he was definitely not the best player on the floor.

OU is good folks...not great, but good. We're going to make the Big Dance this year, just watch.

Yes, I think we'll start off 0-2 in the Big 12 and then rally and finish with 9-10 wins. I do think KSU will stumble here and there due to the coaching issues I mentioned earlier, but make no mistake, Huggins left them with some unreal pure talent.

That was the only game Michael Beasley will play at LNC...Thank God.

I agree that Walker and Beasley are as good of a 1-2 punch as any team in the country has. Chances are good that both players are NBA bound after this year.

What is disappointing is that I think this is one of 2-3 swing games in the conference as far as standings/seedings in the Big 12 tourney and possibly NCAA tourney bids. I think we are probably going to be in a dogfight for the 4th or 5th spot in the conference and conceivably an NCAA bid and I think the KSU and MU games at home are probably both big. We now have to finish a game ahead of KSU and that will be tough when we are probably looking at 0-2 after tonight.

I still like our chances to make the tourney though.

Ton Loc
1/14/2008, 10:41 AM
Let me put it this way...if were an NBA GM and you gave me a choice between Kevin Durant, Greg Oden, and Michael Beasley, I would choose Beasley w/o hesitation. Not even for a second. And this takes NOTHING away from the other two.

Michael Beasley is a superstar. The best college freshmen I've seen in a loooooong time and IMO, the clear player of the year in college basketball this year.

Beasley is a total beast. Assuming he keeps his head on straight, the sky is the limit.



I think you may have gone a little overboard in your opinion for Micheal Beasley because there was no defense played in that game. Both teams shoot over 50% = poor defense. Everything else you said was right on though. Especially the part about KSU's poor coaching.

Did anyone hear Micheal Beasley's comments after the game.? Poor kid, I don't think he could make it more than one year in college.

OUSKINS
1/14/2008, 10:55 AM
I think you may have gone a little overboard in your opinion for Micheal Beasley because there was no defense played in that game. Both teams shoot over 50% = poor defense. Everything else you said was right on though. Especially the part about KSU's poor coaching.

Did anyone hear Micheal Beasley's comments after the game.? Poor kid, I don't think he could make it more than one year in college.

Disagree. 50% shooting doesn't always mean poor defense.

You judge defense when the shot is TAKEN, not after it misses/goes in. If you are in the right position and force a difficult shot and they make it....it doesn't mean the defense was bad.

Beasley was getting pushed away from the basket = good defense

We had a hand in his face on the majority of his jump shots = good defense

He kept scoring anyway = still good defense even with the bad result

cheezyq
1/14/2008, 11:01 AM
I think you may have gone a little overboard in your opinion for Micheal Beasley because there was no defense played in that game. Both teams shoot over 50% = poor defense. Everything else you said was right on though. Especially the part about KSU's poor coaching.

Did anyone hear Micheal Beasley's comments after the game.? Poor kid, I don't think he could make it more than one year in college.

I agree (edit: about the poor KSU coaching), and that coach of theirs sure has a purty mouth, too.

Maybe I'm just harping on our play a little bit, but it did seem like we got out of our game a bit, and tried too hard to get it to Blake. He's a great player, but I think because we tried to force it in there to him, it caused us to turn it over quite a bit.

I'm impressed with Beasley. I think the difference between him and Durant is that Beasley has an inside game. He has the same shooting touch and moves on the outside, and the fadeaway, but also has the body (i.e - he weighs more than a feather) to grab some rebounds and make some plays in the paint.

Blake is awesome, too, though. I think in a lot of ways he outperformed Beasley, given the comparative talent around the two players. The cramping up late in games, though, is odd. I think that's why he tossed that ball so funky at the end of the game that caused Johnson to take a 3/4 court shot.

stoopified
1/14/2008, 12:27 PM
This was a game we should have won.Yes KSU is talented BUT we were at home and need to win close games like this to have the kind of season we want to have.Now we need to get a road upset to get back on track.As much as I would like to see it tonite I don't think that is likely.I just hope an 0-2 start doesn't snowball on us.

NormanPride
1/14/2008, 12:41 PM
I just hope that this loss doesn't kill our momentum. The guys need to let it go and get ready for a tough KU game. We almost assuredly won't win that one, but we can't let it get to us. We're a good team that needs a lot of confidence to win consistently.

cheezyq
1/14/2008, 01:03 PM
This was a game we should have won.Yes KSU is talented BUT we were at home and need to win close games like this to have the kind of season we want to have.Now we need to get a road upset to get back on track.As much as I would like to see it tonite I don't think that is likely.I just hope an 0-2 start doesn't snowball on us.

I'll agree with you to an extent here. We should have won, and we made too many mistakes. But we lost to a good team by two points, despite all the turnovers and such. If we play a clean game, we probably win by double-digits. The fact that we've won on the road against a top 25 caliber team, and beaten teams like Gonzaga and Arkansas, shows that this team has improved dramatically from last year.

I'm mildly disappointed by this loss, but I actually found a few things about it that are encouraging. That we can play sub-par and still have a shot at the end against a good team is a good sign. The only major disappointment is that we're probably going to be fighting with KSU for that 4th seed and the bye in the tourney, and they now have the head-to-head edge. Given our lack of depth, a bye will be virtually necessary by the end of the season.

OUSKINS
1/31/2008, 11:42 AM
My assesment following our game with them seems to hold even more water right now.

I'd say there are 6-7 teams that I think are truly CAPABLE of winning the national title this year. I put KSU in that group. Over a long season, depth can get you far. But in one game situations, you can only have 5 on the floor at once-- and Beasley is best player in college ball-- and Walker is going under the radar because of Beasley, but he's a stud as well. KSU is more likely to suffer an upset loss, IMO, than other top teams, but their ultimate upside? Winning it all.

skycat
1/31/2008, 12:02 PM
Will somebody please point to specific instances that indicate K-State is "poorly coached".

TIA

OUSKINS
1/31/2008, 03:28 PM
Will somebody please point to specific instances that indicate K-State is "poorly coached".

TIA

Lots of early losses this season to teams with inferior talent. However, those who question the coaching (myself included) will have to rethink those comments if KSU continues doing what they're doing.

skycat
1/31/2008, 04:05 PM
Lots of early losses this season to teams with inferior talent. However, those who question the coaching (myself included) will have to rethink those comments if KSU continues doing what they're doing.

7 freshman (including two that didn't get eligible until the semester break), two other first year transfers, key contributers (Walker, Stewart) coming off injury, losing best returning player (Hoskins) for the year just before the season started.

All four losses to teams that are likely to be in the NCAA tournament.

Granted there is a lot of season left, but frankly he should be the front runner for conference COY right now based on actual performance.

Frozen Sooner
1/31/2008, 04:09 PM
In a conference that didn't include Drew, I'd be inclined to agree.

skycat
1/31/2008, 04:23 PM
The first part of their conference slate is by far their easiest stretch. Those three games were as close to gimmes as you can get in this league.

They've only had two wins against quality opposition (Notre Dame, and the 5 OT game in CS). They're a bit overrated right now and will drop some more games in the next few weeks.

Salt City Sooner
1/31/2008, 06:09 PM
It may not be poor coaching, but I'd call this a pretty poor decision:


Kansas State associate head coach Dalonte Hill was arrested early this morning by Pottawatomie County police under a charge of driving under the influence.

Sheriff Greg Riat said a deputy stopped Hill shortly after 2 a.m. on McCall Road in Manhattan for a routine check. Riat said the deputy had probable cause to believe Hill was under the influence of alcohol, so the K-State assistant was taken into custody.

He was released this morning on $500 bond.

Just a few hours earlier, Hill helped guide the Wildcats to a 84-75 victory against rival Kansas, the No. 2 team in the country, a win that snapped a 24-year home losing streak to the Jayhawks.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/updates/story/297866.html

skycat
1/31/2008, 06:20 PM
Yeah, that sucks.

jdsooner
1/31/2008, 07:17 PM
Party on, dude!

OUSKINS
2/3/2008, 11:40 PM
Will somebody please point to specific instances that indicate K-State is "poorly coached".

TIA

See Mizzou game :)

skycat
2/4/2008, 10:42 AM
Bad loss. There were definitely things that you could point to in this loss and call poor coaching decisions.

After building a 14 point lead just about everything needed to go wrong for us to lose, from poor coaching, to poor execution, to lousy free throw shooting.

And it all did.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
2/4/2008, 10:49 AM
Bad loss. There were definitely things that you could point to in this loss and call poor coaching decisions.

After building a 14 point lead just about everything needed to go wrong for us to lose, from poor coaching, to poor execution, to lousy free throw shooting.

And it all did.


That looked like the "classic" letdown game. When KSU went up 14 MIZZOU was all set to get rolled and KSU let them back in it. Pretty much as Sunvold said, sometimes when a team gets a lead too easy they lose all intensity.

I don't know that I'd call it terrible coaching but I think some of the great coaches are able to overcome that. I still don't think Frank Martin is going to have much success when Beasley and Walker are gone but I've seen enough to be convinced that he isn't a horrible coach either.

I can see KSU finishing 13-3.

skycat
2/4/2008, 11:06 AM
I didn't say he did a terrible job, but there were some iffy decisions, for pretty much the first time this season.

The thing is 4 of K-State's top 6 players are Freshman, with even more Freshman and first year players asked to contribute. And Frank Martin is a first year head coach. It's not surprising that the Cats show some inconsistency. Especially, as you say, coming off of the biggest win for the program in a couple of decades.

Playing to their potential K-State should finish 13-3 or even 14-2. I think K-State will lose in Lawerence, split the Tech/Baylor road games, and drop one other clunker (I think that losing to Texas at home would be considered a clunker as UT doesn't match up well with K-State at all) and wind up at 12-4.

With two top 100 kids committed for 2009, K-State looks to at least not suck in the near future.