Photo ID for voters

[Okla-homey]

Okay kids, let's see if the collective wisdom of this fora can predict the outcome of a pending SCOTUS review of state laws requiring voters to produce picture ID's at the polls.

background: big hullabaloo in some locales.

Donks say state law requirements to produce a photo ID to prove you are in fact who you say you are when you show up to vote unconsitutionally prejudices the poor who are least likely to have a photo ID, and tend to vote Donk BTW.

Pubs say photo ID's are necessary to help prevent voter fraud -- like dead people voting and stuff. They do not allege dead people mostly vote Donk. Instead, they say they're just generally opposed to dead people voting.

So, waddyallthink? We'll compare our result here with the outcome of the case when the opinion is released.

[GrapevineSooner]

I think the law will be upheld as it should be.

I don't want to hear any whining from Donks about voter irregularities as long as they hold the position that they do on this issue.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Aw crap, I voted no and I meant to vote yes. I thought the poll said unconstitutional.

[yermom]

maybe i'm a racist, but i think that being able to read and being able to prove your identity should be requirements

to be honest, i think there should be more strict requirements than that...

[KsSooner]

Saw this from link provided by SBSB on the Olan Mills thread

http://sohos.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/hey-jackass-its-no-big-deal/

[Big Red Ron]

maybe i'm a racist, but i think that being able to read and being able to prove your identity should be requirements

to be honest, i think there should be more strict requirements than that...Oooh, Jim Crow, Jim Crow, Racist, Racist!:D

[jkjsooner]

maybe i'm a racist, but i think that being able to read and being able to prove your identity should be requirements

to be honest, i think there should be more strict requirements than that...

I agree 100% about proving your identity but why must you be able to read? Every polling place has people who can read the ballot for you.

The intent of the law absolutely should be looked at. Too oftent he courts look if something affects one group more than another and invalidates it which is absurd. Just because something affects one group more than the other doesn't mean the intent was to do so. I can't believe we haven't always had ID voting rules and if it affects more minorities or dems then they darn sure need to get those people ID's.

Literacy voting rules are a different ballgame altogehter. They were absolutely intended to keep blacks from voting.

[GrapevineSooner]

Literacy voting rules are a different ballgame altogehter. They were absolutely intended to keep blacks from voting.

At a time when Blacks were intentionally kept from becoming educated. Obviously, we've done a near 180 on that issue.

Still, I'm no constitutional scholar and my only requirement to vote is that you can prove to be who you say you are.

[jk the sooner fan]

maybe i'm a racist, but i think that being able to read and being able to prove your identity should be requirements

to be honest, i think there should be more strict requirements than that...

so you're saying only whites can read and prove their identity? ;)

even poor people have identification - how else do they get their government assistance?

such a silly argument by the left

[bluedogok]

You pretty much HAVE to an a gov't issued ID to do anything in this country anymore, you can get a state issued ID without having to have a drivers license in any state. So I don't see the big deal in it since it is so prevalent in our world as it is today. If you can't prove that is your name on the list, you shouldn't have the right to vote.

Of course back in the Mayor Daley Chicago Machine Days, he would have just have false ID's made or bought off the polling locations. It is a lot easier for the dead to vote if you own the polls.

[yermom]

At a time when Blacks were intentionally kept from becoming educated. Obviously, we've done a near 180 on that issue.

Still, I'm no constitutional scholar and my only requirement to vote is that you can prove to be who you say you are.

ok, maybe reading is a little harsh, but i do think it's stupid that people can vote without knowing anything about anything that is going on in the election. but that is just the way politicians like it ;)

that is probably outside of the discussion at this point though


but yes, in the past, Jim Crow laws were bad. now you are required by law to go to school. you should be able to read... if you can't, it's most likely your fault

[FirstandGoal]

even poor people have identification - how else do they get their government assistance?

such a silly argument by the left

Actually.....

I was filling a prescription last week for a person who had just moved from Texas to Oklahoma and was on Oklahoma medicaid and they did not have any kind of photo ID. :mad:

When I asked the man's wife how on earth such a thing could happen, she gave me a look like I was dumb and said "duh! We were on Texas medicaid before"

:rolleyes:



Bottom line is this: If you are not personally responsible enough to get and maintain some kind of photo ID knowing that such an ID will be required to go vote, then you don't deserve to participate in determining who is going to be in charge of running our government.

[OUNC06]

I think it would be great if the law stated you must pass a reading comprehension test to vote. If you can't pass a simple reading comprehension test then you probably don't have any idea why you're voting for your chosen candidate anyway. If you're voting ignorantly then what's the point. Let's just draw straws and decide who will be the next president.

[OCUDad]

I think it would be great if the law stated you must pass a reading comprehension test to vote. If you can't pass a simple reading comprehension test then you probably don't have any idea why your voting for your chosen candidate anyone. If your voting ignortantly then what's the point. Let's just draw straws and decide who will be the next president.Possibly a simple writing test would be in order, too.

[Chuck Bao]

Good point. But who would grade the writing tests?

I vote for Wonderlic tests being administered to all prospective voters.

[SicEmBaylor]

maybe i'm a racist, but i think that being able to read and being able to prove your identity should be requirements

to be honest, i think there should be more strict requirements than that...

Once again, we find ourselves in full agreement.

[SicEmBaylor]

I've made my ideas for voter reform known several times.
For those of you that have missed it, the SicEm Plan is as follows:

1. Eliminate the 26th amendment and raise the minimum voting age to at least 21 excepting active duty military personnel.

2. To gain the right to vote, one must make a 75% or above on a basic two-part civics test including sections on state and federal government.

3. Must be a US citizen and show proper ID at the polling place.

[SicEmBaylor]

Also, literacy tests are useless. So what if someone can read the ballot? It doesn't make them any less ignorant.

If you had a basic civics test though you can ensure some level of competency AND prove that they can read. Kill two birds with one stone.

All you would then need is to sit back and watch this Republic improve.

[Curly Bill]

I've made my ideas for voter reform known several times.
For those of you that have missed it, the SicEm Plan is as follows:

1. Eliminate the 26th amendment and raise the minimum voting age to at least 21 excepting active duty military personnel.

2. To gain the right to vote, one must make a 75% or above on a basic two-part civics test including sections on state and federal government.

3. Must be a US citizen and show proper ID at the polling place.

I'll be dang...I find myself liking the SicEm plan for voting. :confused:

[FirstandGoal]

Maybe we should also have a basic quantum physics test as well.

[SicEmBaylor]

Maybe we should also have a basic quantum physics test as well.

The difference is, quantum physics has absolutely nothing to do with understanding how government works. A civics test does.

[Chuck Bao]

The difference is, quantum physics has absolutely nothing to do with understanding how government works. A civics test does.

Government works?!!???!!!

What? You trying to depress voters?

[OUNC06]

Possibly a simple writing test would be in order, too.
I didn't proof read my post very well. However, I think you understand my point. Do you agree or disagree? :D

[Okla-homey]

I like the idea of literacy tests for voters. However, the problem with literacy or reading comprehension tests for voters is the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled they are as dead as an old dead thing.

Therefore, anyone wishing their resurrection better be able to garner enough votes in Congress (2/3'ds of both houses) and majorities in at least 37 state legislatures to pass an amendment to the Constitution reinstating them. Good luck with that.

Oh, and Al Sharpton's head would explode.

[SicEmBaylor]

I like the idea of literacy tests for voters. However, the problem with literacy or reading comprehension tests for voters is the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled they are as dead as an old dead thing.

Therefore, anyone wishing their resurrection better be able to garner enough votes in Congress (2/3'ds of both houses) and majorities in at least 37 state legislatures to pass an amendment to the Constitution reinstating them. Good luck with that.

Oh, and Al Sharpton's head would explode.

Or, alternatively, hope the Supreme Court reverses itself.

[NormanPride]

If there was a way to educate everyone about their leaders, then I'd be for that. If we could send out a mailing detailing what the candidates were about and their voting records, I would love it. It's too hard for the average American to find that stuff.

[OCUDad]

I didn't proof read my post very well. However, I think you understand my point. Do you agree or disagree? :DYou should be able to prove you are who you say you are, and that you are an American citizen of voting age. The notion of testing is attractive but unimplementable. Stupid people can run for office, so why shouldn't stupid people be allowed to vote?

[SicEmBaylor]

If there was a way to educate everyone about their leaders, then I'd be for that. If we could send out a mailing detailing what the candidates were about and their voting records, I would love it. It's too hard for the average American to find that stuff.

They're called voter guides and there are literally hundreds of them to be had every election both general non-partisan guides, partisan guides, and single issue guides.

There is, by far, enough information for anyone to be educated and absolutely no excuse not to be.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm OK with ID requirements. That being said, you'd be surprised how many people wander around with expired IDs and I guarantee someone would be denied their right to vote by some petty-*** bureaucrat who can't understand that just because an ID is expired it doesn't mean that the person changed identities.

Reading tests and civics tests are pretty anti-democratic, which I understand that SicEm is OK with.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm OK with ID requirements. That being said, you'd be surprised how many people wander around with expired IDs and I guarantee someone would be denied their right to vote by some petty-*** bureaucrat who can't understand that just because an ID is expired it doesn't mean that the person changed identities.

Reading tests and civics tests are pretty anti-democratic, which I understand that SicEm is OK with.

You understand correctly.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yep. We've had that discussion before. And I understand what the actual meaning of anti-democratic is, so I don't intend that as an insult. We just have a different perspective on who should be allowed to have the franchise.

[yermom]

I like the idea of literacy tests for voters. However, the problem with literacy or reading comprehension tests for voters is the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled they are as dead as an old dead thing.

Therefore, anyone wishing their resurrection better be able to garner enough votes in Congress (2/3'ds of both houses) and majorities in at least 37 state legislatures to pass an amendment to the Constitution reinstating them. Good luck with that.

Oh, and Al Sharpton's head would explode.

it would also cost a ****load and **** a whole lot of people off... it's not realistic, i know that

not requiring a picture ID though, i think, honestly that is just a sign that something dirty might br going on

[1stTimeCaller]

If you can make it to a polling location you can make it to the DMV or wherever you need to go to get an ID.

Maybe one of the candidates can send their voter van around a few months early to pick those people up and take them to the DMV.

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm OK with ID requirements. That being said, you'd be surprised how many people wander around with expired IDs and I guarantee someone would be denied their right to vote by some petty-*** bureaucrat who can't understand that just because an ID is expired it doesn't mean that the person changed identities.

Reading tests and civics tests are pretty anti-democratic, which I understand that SicEm is OK with.

if we can require that people that really desire to cast a vote that they not be convicted felons, i think its ok to require that they maintain a current form of identification

[Frozen Sooner]

if we can require that people that really desire to cast a vote that they not be convicted felons, i think its ok to require that they maintain a current form of identification

I don't think it's particularly onerous either, but there you are. Seriously, the percentage of people who walk around with expired ID is higher than you'd think.

I do think it's curious that you equate being a convicted felon with having expired ID in that manner though.

[1stTimeCaller]

if you were a felon wouldn't they take you off of the registered voter rolls upon your conviction?

[jk the sooner fan]

I don't think it's particularly onerous either, but there you are. Seriously, the percentage of people who walk around with expired ID is higher than you'd think.

I do think it's curious that you equate being a convicted felon with having expired ID in that manner though.

having spent a "few" years in law enforcement, i'm aware of how many dont have ID's

and the comparison was ALL about conditions to voting......and nothing else

i do think its curious that you took it the other way though

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, jk, how else am I supposed to take your statement? If A is OK, then B is OK. If denying people the right to vote based on their felony conviction is OK, then denying them the right to vote based on whether they have a non-expired ID is OK? Your syllogism doesn't work unless you're equating the two in some fashion.

By "curious" I meant that I'm sure you really don't think that, so I'm curious why you'd make that statement.

[1stTimeCaller]

I'm gonna go grab a Thesarus.

[jk the sooner fan]

ok let me reword it

if we can require people to be 18 years old to vote, then i think we can require people to have identification to vote

you read WAY too much in to it

[Mongo]

I am curious about all this curiousness running rampant in this thread

[Frozen Sooner]

ok let me reword it

if we can require people to be 18 years old to vote, then i think we can require people to have identification to vote

I can agree with that, particularly when fees to renew non-driver license IDs are pretty low everywhere. I wonder if that creates a de facto poll tax when they get above a certain threshold, but that's another discussion.

[Sooner_Bob]

I don't think I've never had to present anything other than my voter ID/registration card. I can't recall ever being asked for a photo ID.

I think In this day and age if someone cares enough to vote, I'd imagine they'd have some form of photo ID. Work-related or otherwise.

[Frozen Sooner]

Allowing a work ID to serve as ID is basically the same as not requiring an ID.

[OUDoc]

I am bi-curious
:eek:

[Sooner_Bob]

Allowing a work ID to serve as ID is basically the same as not requiring an ID.

Depends on the place of employment.

[sooner_born_1960]

ok let me reword it

if we can require people to be 18 years old to vote, then i think we can require people to have identification to vote

you read WAY too much in to it
Are you suggesting that we require people to be exactly 18 years old to vote? I find it curious that you feel that way.

[sooner_born_1960]

Depends on the place of employment. Not in my book. I have a government issued photo id for my place of employment. It would be silly for me to think a poll worker would know what a genuine Federal Highway Administration ID looks like.

[Frozen Sooner]

Depends on the place of employment.

Sorry, I didn't make that clear.

State-issued IDs have a couple of advantages. For the purposes of voting, they're uniform, so poll workers only have to look for one set of security features.

Work-issued IDs aren't uniform, generally contain no security features, and there's no practical way to educate poll workers on what each company's ID looks like. From the standpoint of guaranteeing that the correct person is casting a ballot, they're useless. I can turn out a bunch of genuine-looking work IDs in an afternoon. At that point, you've got a poll worker making a judgment call as to whether Balloonsoft is a legitimate employer and the ID being presented actually looks like one of their IDs.

[Sooner_Bob]

Gotcha . . . I've often wondered why our drivers license can't count as our voter identification anyway. Especially since you can register to vote when you renew or change your license info.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I am asking this question in a discussion sort of way, not to flame. I have a formed opinion, but wonder what others think.

How many people DO NOT have access to a Certified Birth Certificate? How difficult do you think it would be to get one. I don't buy this as a legitimate reason, but am interested in other opinions.

I personally have a certified copy in my safety deposit box and have carried it around since I left home.

[Frozen Sooner]

I am asking this question in a discussion sort of way, not to flame. I have a formed opinion, but wonder what others think.

How many people DO NOT have access to a Certified Birth Certificate? How difficult do you think it would be to get one. I don't buy this as a legitimate reason, but am interested in other opinions.

I personally have a certified copy in my safety deposit box and have carried it around since I left home.

For someone who doesn't live in their birth state, it can be a hassle to get one. I've got mine, though (I live in my birth state.) It's also a hassle in that notary publics in most states can't certify copies anymore, so you have to go to your state Division of Vital Statistics or Records or whatever to get one.

[jk the sooner fan]

birth certs are TOUGH for MANY people

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I am asking this question in a discussion sort of way, not to flame. I have a formed opinion, but wonder what others think.

How many people DO NOT have access to a Certified Birth Certificate? How difficult do you think it would be to get one. I don't buy this as a legitimate reason, but am interested in other opinions.

I personally have a certified copy in my safety deposit box and have carried it around since I left home.All I had to do was send a copy of my drivers license and fill out a form and send it to Florida. Of course, if I didn't have a government issued ID already it may have been more difficult. I think you can fill out some more affidavits and paperwork in that case though.

[SicEmBaylor]

All I had to do was send a copy of my drivers license and fill out a form and send it to Florida. Of course, if I didn't have a government issued ID already it may have been more difficult. I think you can fill out some more affidavits and paperwork in that case though.

Heh, I was born in Florida as well. What city?

[Vaevictis]

I wonder if that creates a de facto poll tax when they get above a certain threshold, but that's another discussion.

This is exactly what I was going to say. I think that the Supreme Court rules that a requirement for ID is okay, but I think that you're going to see lawsuits about the associated fees being poll taxes in the near future.

[SicEmBaylor]

This is exactly what I was going to say. I think that the Supreme Court rules that a requirement for ID is okay, but I think that you're going to see lawsuits about the associated fees being poll taxes in the near future.

I'd be fine with eliminating DL fees.

[Vaevictis]

I'd be fine with eliminating DL fees.

I'm thinking that the guys who draft budgets might have a problem with it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I have never done it, but those of you that have, is it difficult to request a copy of a birth certificate?

I was born in Mississippi, they use Vital Check, for $15 I fill out the form on the internet with city, county and date and then it is processed. You can also request it by form over the mail. This doesn't seem intrusive or difficult to me.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

This is exactly what I was going to say. I think that the Supreme Court rules that a requirement for ID is okay, but I think that you're going to see lawsuits about the associated fees being poll taxes in the near future.

What if we require everyone have a passport or papers to prove identity for any government service. Is that a poll tax? IS it intrusive? If the government require everyone to have it for all things, does it then become a requirement for citizenship. Many countries have IDs and I don't hear of great complaints, poll tax or intrusion...

[Vaevictis]

What if we require everyone have a passport or papers to prove identity for any government service. Is that a poll tax?

If you included exercising your right to vote in the list of "any government service," then maybe it would be a poll tax. I don't know how the Courts would rule on that, but I would certainly expect to see lawsuits over it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I would think that the government would require the passport/papers for any time you contact the government, they would ask for your number. Personally, I think the poll tax arguement is getting thin and old. I guess I am not a good forward thinker, becuase I fail to see how requiring any govt. doc or id could be extended to the poll tax idea. The idea of a poll tax is to set a value so high to discourage certain voters and thereby leaving only certain people left to vote. I guess a poll tax would be discriminating against illegal aliens, but as I recall, they can't vote and are not recognized. But otherwise, the cost of gov't IDs seems so low that I can't see how it could be considered a barrier to voting.

To me, no matter how you set up the ID requirement. A certain group of people will be against it, because they are for fraud and an uncertain electorate.

[SicEmBaylor]

A real poll tax isn't feasible, but man oh man would I love to see one.

[mikeelikee]

I just reviewed the 2007 State Donk platform, and I quote from Page 6 of that document (emphasis added): "We oppose barriers to voting that would require Oklahoma voters to purchase photo identification to exercise their constitutional right."

Yeah, Heaven forbid we actually make voters prove they are who they say they are!

[yermom]

someone remind me how much a photo ID costs...

how about we start a "buy poor voters a photo ID" fund :rolleyes:

[Collier11]

Also, literacy tests are useless. So what if someone can read the ballot? It doesn't make them any less ignorant.

If you had a basic civics test though you can ensure some level of competency AND prove that they can read. Kill two birds with one stone.

All you would then need is to sit back and watch this Republic improve.


But then this might stop all the people from voting based on what their daddy voted, voting straight party line, or who has the prettiest hair! That would be too inconvenient for some to educate themselves before voting!

[SicEmBaylor]

someone remind me how much a photo ID costs...

how about we start a "buy poor voters a photo ID" fund :rolleyes:
No! That'll only encourage them to vote!

[SicEmBaylor]

But then this might stop all the people from voting based on what their daddy voted, voting straight party line, or who has the prettiest hair! That would be too inconvenient for some to educate themselves before voting!

Yep. Look, the idea of voting in this country has become so totally irrational and out-right bizarre. I have yet to hear someone provide a decent argument as to why it is good for this country to encourage everyone to vote -- regardless of how much they know of candidates or the responsibilities of the office they are voting for.

It's pretty maddening. I mean, a well trained chimp can walk into a voting booth and make a selection. How is that a civic virtue? Why do we run TV commercials telling people to just go out and vote as if the act in and of itself is benefit to democracy? Voting is simply a means to an end, but it's increasingly viewed as the end in and of itself.

I challenge any rational human being to watch MTV for a couple of days and then justify the Rock the Vote campaign. Do you really want those idiots deciding the fate of our nation? I wish to God people would come to the realization that universal suffrage is NOT a good thing.

[Chuck Bao]

I promise you that the chimps who work everyday know more about the election and their stake in the decision than you do, Sic'em.

[SicEmBaylor]

I promise you that the chimps who work everyday know more about the election and their stake in the decision than you do, Sic'em.

I very seriously doubt that.

[OCUDad]

Sorry, SicEm, I'm with Chuck. There is a huge difference between "education" and "knowledge." I hope someday you will appreciate the difference.

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm thinking that the guys who draft budgets might have a problem with it.


No problem, we'll just raise the income tax rates on the wealthy to compensate for the shortfall. They benefit more from society so they should be forced to pay for driver's licenses.

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm OK with ID requirements. That being said, you'd be surprised how many people wander around with expired IDs and I guarantee someone would be denied their right to vote by some petty-*** bureaucrat who can't understand that just because an ID is expired it doesn't mean that the person changed identities.



I don't think Pat should be allowed to vote anyway.

[SicEmBaylor]

Sorry, SicEm, I'm with Chuck. There is a huge difference between "education" and "knowledge." I hope someday you will appreciate the difference.

Okay, give me an example of this. What am I missing?

[Collier11]

Okay, give me an example of this. What am I missing?

these guys have to be educated to have any knowledge so forgive them! :D

[SicEmBaylor]

My issue with voting habits isn't with people voting based on their own self-interest. That is expected, and anyone who understands the impact of the election of Candidate A over Candidate B in their life is probably doing just fine in my book.

My problem is that they often look to the wrong elected official or the wrong office to fix whatever personal problems that they want fixed. The real reason that I want a basic civics test is to ensure that people have a better understanding of the role of a state representative v. a US senator. I neither have no problem with people voting in their self-interest nor would I presume to know what is in their best interest.

What I don't want are a bunch of people running around voting for President because they think Obama or McCain will do a better job at fixing the road in front of their house. Honest to God, I have had a voter tell me exactly that (though it was Bush/Kerry at the time).

[Sooner_Bob]

Paperz pleaz . . . I need to ze your paperzz.

http://www.anenglishmanscastle.com/images/timeintro_krakow_l.jpg

[jk the sooner fan]

Okay, give me an example of this. What am I missing?

common sense?

intellectual maturity?

a sense of respect for your fellow man's right to choose - he doesnt infringe on yours like you do his

i could go on, but it would be pointless

[Sooner_Bob]

common sense?

intellectual maturity?

a sense of respect for your fellow man's right to choose - he doesnt infringe on yours like you do his

i could go on, but it would be pointless


You think he'll miss the point of that post? :D

[jk the sooner fan]

or somebody to knock that smug sense of superiority out of him....

[yermom]

to a point, i have to agree with SicEm

if you are voting for someone because you recognize their name, or they look good on TV, then i'm not really that worried if you come out and vote or not. or of you vote all for one party regardless of the person, etc...

btw, i take knowledge over education any day ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

its a great principle - the idea that ALL voters would take that civic duty with as much seriousness as sic'em does

but its not going to happen - people are swayed to vote, just as they are swayed to buy products because of catchy commercials

its human nature - the percentage of people that actually vote in this country is so low that its really not as bad a problem as you'd think

[GrapevineSooner]

well, I think there's enough idiots on both sides of the aisle who do that that it ultimately cancels each other's votes out.

In summation...

Photo ID's? Yes.
Civics Test before voting? While some may view it as well intentioned, I fail to see how any idea like this would see the light of day when you consider the judicial precedent that's already been set with outlawing reading tests.

Not to mention, it's a slippery slope that I don't want to go down. Too much possibility for people to monkey around with the test and use if for ill-intentioned purposes.

[JohnnyMack]

You morans and your pedantic ramblings. All of this becomes moot once Emperor Cheney implants the microchips in us all.

Beware 01/20/09.

[Sooner_Bob]

Beware 01/20/09.


I thought that was when SkyNet goes online.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I thought that was when SkyNet goes online.

:D Spek!

Boom!

[Harry Beanbag]

or somebody to knock that smug sense of superiority out of him....


He'll have to stand in line around here to take that blow.

[SicEmBaylor]

He'll have to stand in line around here to take that blow.

:(

[Harry Beanbag]

Seems nearly unanimous. Would be interesting if this was a public pole.

[SoonerKnight]

most states have a law requiring all residents to have a photo I.D. and this is not a drivers license it is a state photo I.D.

[Frozen Sooner]

Seems nearly unanimous. Would be interesting if this was a public pole.

How about a public poll where we require ID?

[Harry Beanbag]

How about a public poll where we require ID?


Sounds fair.