who do we lose to the NFL...

[Soonerus]

...Kelley, who else ????

[Curly Bill]

Smith probably, Duke maybe , Lofton another maybe...

[Soonerus]

Smith probably, Duke maybe , Lofton another maybe...
I bet we do not lose any of those 3 this year...

[madillsoonerfan5353]

I hope the D guys stay at least!!!

[hOlden caUlfield...]

Rumors on other boards are saying Lofton is leaving. We'll see though.

[Soonerus]

Logton needs to stay...he is awesome...

[goingoneight]

Professional sports should have never allowed kids to leave early, in any sport, IMHO. Yeah, it gives kids an oppurtunity to get rich quicker, but it ruins two things.

The importance of education moral and college sports. There's no telling how it would effect college sports if they had to stay until they graduated. It would make coaches refigure redshirts, recruits might have been swayed elsewhere if guys like AD, Reggie Bush and Vince Young had another year. The record books could have been a lot different, too.

[85sooners]

:eek:

[Curly Bill]

Professional sports should have never allowed kids to leave early, in any sport, IMHO. Yeah, it gives kids an oppurtunity to get rich quicker, but it ruins two things.

The importance of education moral and college sports. There's no telling how it would effect college sports if they had to stay until they graduated. It would make coaches refigure redshirts, recruits might have been swayed elsewhere if guys like AD, Reggie Bush and Vince Young had another year. The record books could have been a lot different, too.

All true perhaps, but if the kids can go make a living doing what we want them to do without pay in college, I say let them do it. I know I'd rather get paid to play then do it for free.

[madillsoonerfan5353]

Professional sports should have never allowed kids to leave early, in any sport, IMHO. Yeah, it gives kids an oppurtunity to get rich quicker, but it ruins two things.

The importance of education moral and college sports. There's no telling how it would effect college sports if they had to stay until they graduated. It would make coaches refigure redshirts, recruits might have been swayed elsewhere if guys like AD, Reggie Bush and Vince Young had another year. The record books could have been a lot different, too.


I agree!!!

[hink4769]

Professional sports should have never allowed kids to leave early, in any sport, IMHO. Yeah, it gives kids an oppurtunity to get rich quicker, but it ruins two things.

The importance of education moral and college sports. There's no telling how it would effect college sports if they had to stay until they graduated. It would make coaches refigure redshirts, recruits might have been swayed elsewhere if guys like AD, Reggie Bush and Vince Young had another year. The record books could have been a lot different, too.
Thats pretty selfish of the fans to expect kids to stay around for 4 years playing for free. And don't say they get an education, because let's face it, many of these kids grow up in an athletic cocoon where whatever sport they play is much more important to them than their education, and it should be because they have the chance to make alot of money in sports. Even if they do try take their school seriously, how much can they learn when they spend countless hours working out, practicing, traveling, and in meetings? IMHO, its not very American to deny these kids an oppurtunity to make money playing football.

[Curly Bill]

Thats pretty selfish of the fans to expect kids to stay around for 4 years playing for free. And don't say they get an education, because let's face it, many of these kids grow up in an athletic cocoon where whatever sport they play is much more important to them than their education, and it should be because they have the chance to make alot of money in sports. Even if they do try take their school seriously, how much can they learn when they spend countless hours working out, practicing, traveling, and in meetings? IMHO, its not very American to deny these kids an oppurtunity to make money playing football.

Hellz yeah hink4769, I've taken the contrarian angle on a few of your posts, but you nailed this one. Good jorb. ;)

[goingoneight]

What did we always use to hear from professional athletes?

"Stay in school?"

It sends a cool message, IMHO that some sports don't allow early entry. "What ifs" are...

What if he gets hurt? Hell, how many guys get hurt all throughout their college career? If he gets hurt permanently, he can finish his degree and not be a stupid kid who used to be a pretty good football player. It's not like there's a shortage of athletes who wouldn't give it their all to play in his place.

[Curly Bill]

What did we always use to hear from professional athletes?

"Stay in school?"

That's because they didn't want the competition. :P

[goingoneight]

Thats pretty selfish of the fans to expect kids to stay around for 4 years playing for free. And don't say they get an education, because let's face it, many of these kids grow up in an athletic cocoon where whatever sport they play is much more important to them than their education, and it should be because they have the chance to make alot of money in sports. Even if they do try take their school seriously, how much can they learn when they spend countless hours working out, practicing, traveling, and in meetings? IMHO, its not very American to deny these kids an oppurtunity to make money playing football.

So it's selfish to promote getting an education? I stand nothing to gain by guys coming back. I can toss my team merchandise with the best of them when something bad happens, and there's much worse than a guy going pro early. Yes, the oppurtunity is there now, it's foolish to expect them to deny it. But as smart as I was growing up, I wasn't told I could leave school early to go into the profession. I had to go through the motions, too.

I know that Women's Bball is not as popular, but how many parents and fans really gripe and bitch about their players not getting to go early? I never said it makes fans happier to force them to stay, I said it could better the sport and probably better the image of the sport.

[hink4769]

What did we always use to hear from professional athletes?

"Stay in school?"

It sends a cool message, IMHO that some sports don't allow early entry. "What ifs" are...

What if he gets hurt? Hell, how many guys get hurt all throughout their college career? If he gets hurt permanently, he can finish his degree and not be a stupid kid who used to be a pretty good football player. It's not like there's a shortage of athletes who wouldn't give it their all to play in his place.
I understand where your coming from, but to me it just seems wrong to deny these kids a right to make money playing professional sports, especially in a sport like football where many players are done in their early 30's. Look at AD, he could have been a productive running back in the NFL 3 years ago. He lost out on a ton of money because of the NFL early entry rule. Yeah, he's having a great season, and he's gonna get paid, but there's no guarantee how long he's going to last. Running backs usually flame out early, especially the more physical runners like him that initiate big hits with defenders instead of avoiding them.

[Curly Bill]

I like college sports a lot, professional sports not so much, so the selfish side of me says make them stay in school for 4 years, but how can you justify telling these dudes they can't go earn a living? I don't think you can.

...and yeah, earning an education is great, having that to fall back on and all, but a nice nest egg from the NFL ain't bad either.

edit ...and I know that some of them will p**s away that nest egg, but so to do people with regular jobs.

[jwlynn64]

So when did we decide it was OK to limit a person's ability to earn a living in a profession where a persons incompetence does not cause physical injury, death, bankruptcy or incarceration to unsuspecting clients?

In addition to that, it is expected that anyone entering the profession serve a certain amount of indentured service to a university that in some cases makes millions of dollars from your service. I understand that you don't have to attend a college to make a professional team but I'm would almost bet this is so rare that less than 10 people have ever done it.

Doesn't seem quite American to me. I love college sports and all but if someone has the ability to go Pro, let them.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

One million dollars sucks a*s.

I do not want any part of one million dollars.

I would much rather stay in school earning a Kineseology degree so that I can apply for a towel boy job at the local health club.

__________________________________________________ __________


Any of you sh*t heads getting it yet?

Not sayin' necessarily on this thread... but come on.

If these guys want a college degree... but can get millions now.... then they can sock just a little of that away to come back and finish their degree.

(Edit: Even if these guys are not first rounders, they will have an initial practice squad contract that will pay them 10's of thousands. Yes, they will have to have the discipline to save and make it work. But that's on them. In the end all, even lower round picks for at least a couple of years have some serious cash coming their way. Staying another year at OU, or any other institution, will not help them be any smarter with how to use that cash.)

I still have a hard time understanding how some of you don't get this.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Dude..I'd never disagree with you outright. I get it BIG TIME! I'd take the money withouth even thinking about it.

That said, I'd also like to think that there are great athletes at OU who are better people than I am. I'd very much like to think that sacrificing for the team is important to some of them. I'd love to think that teamwork and brotherhood still have value in the modern age.

But...Yeah...I know better and have some reality in my world, so...you're right! I can't blame anyone for taking the immediate gratification that our society so strongly advocates.

[Jacie]

So the argument goes, if the guys who would otherwise leave early are "forced" to stay in school, where according to the argument, they will apply themselves and earn a college degree, then once their pro careers are over they will have "something to fall back on." That implies that having a college degree is a guarantee of a job. I better take another look at my degrees, any of em. That part about the guaranteed job must be in the fine print as I have never seen it.

[Harry Beanbag]

A college degree is a piece of paper that anybody can get if they pay for it. People still think a degree is necessary to earn a good living, but how one's career develops is totally up to the individual. That being said, these guys that leave early will make more money in their first contract than nearly everyone on this board will make in their career, degree not necessary.

[oudivesherpa]

It's a time value of money question, can I maximize my Future income stream by going to the NFL early or is it better to stay. The difference between a mid-first round choice and a mid-second round choice is approimately $1MM per year or $5MM over the life of the inital contract. However, with agents looking out for their interest and not the players, many players make the wrong decision and leave early.

There should be a course for every D-1 player--Making wise economic decisions.
a. When to go pro
b. Choosing an agent
c. Investing for the future
d. Don't make decisions with the wrong head (See Kobe).

[yur-out]

A college degree is a piece of paper that anybody can get if they pay for it. People still think a degree is necessary to earn a good living, but how one's career develops is totally up to the individual. That being said, these guys that leave early will make more money in their first contract than nearly everyone on this board will make in their career, degree not necessary.
I don't disagree with anything you said Harry. A high school diploma or college diploma guarantee you nothing. I know kids that dropped out in the 9th grade that are now making more money than I'll ever see (Heh, as a school teacher in Oklahoma 3/4 of this board makes more money than I'll see :() ;).
What those pieces of paper will do, however, they will increase your chances of having a better paying job.
I'm with you; if you can get your money as a first or second round pick, go get your money. If you can't get paid in the first or second round, get that piece of paper that will increase your chances of a better pay day in life.

[Desert Sapper]

Look at AD, he could have been a productive running back in the NFL 3 years ago. He lost out on a ton of money because of the NFL early entry rule.

AD's likelihood of getting seriously injured in the NFL was decreased significantly by the time and work he put in as a starter here. Had he gone directly from high school, as some have suggested he could have done (and I'm not disagreeing), he would not be playing at the same level as he is now. Everything about his game improved while he was here. He catches better, he runs better (smarter), he blocks a whole lot better, he is stronger, a little faster, a little quicker, and it all matters. He got starting experience against lesser competition (as in, most of the players at the FBS level are not going to play in the NFL), which made him better.

So, he probably made a whole lot more money by playing three years at OU than he would have as a backup out of HS for three years, possibly a starter in five or so. In other words, not even AD was ready to make the quantum leap from HS starter to NFL starter over night. It is better in nearly every way for players to be three or more years removed from HS before they bolt to the league. College degrees are good, too, but most of the guys that make NFL rosters don't get degrees in anything meaningful (they don't learn a marketable skill). They use college (which makes them bigger/faster/stronger) as a stepping stone for the NFL. And they should.

This is not basketball. Those little spin moves you used to dazzle people with in High School will only go so far. The learning curve and physical development curve is much steeper from HS to the NFL than HS to NCAA/NCAA to NFL. Some people (like AD and some others) could draw a paycheck out of HS from the NCAA. But the equivalent is the difference between you getting a job as a mailroom clerk out of high school or being handed an executive job out of college (which doesn't happen much unless you have a unique skillset, which football players do). Sure, the mailroom clerk might eventually jump to the executive level, but the chances are slim and the paycheck sucks along the way.

[BoulderSooner79]

The NFL is skating on legal thin ice with the 3 year rule as it is and I don't expect it to hold up forever. They are basically denying employment to qualified individuals and imposing arbitrary requirements. I think they get away with it because there are so few kids physically able to play at the NFL level out of high school as opposed to basketball and nobody wants to bite the hand that feeds them (or will feed them). Remember that tOSU kid (Clarett?) won a challenge in court to apply after his freshman year, but the NFL got it reversed upon appeal. Then he completely bombed out later. I think we should be happy with the 3 year rule for as long as it holds up.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

So was Kelly's "deep thigh bruise" a ploy to not get injured seriously prior to announcing for the NFL? Had heard nothing of the injury before the game.

[effay]

Marcus Walker. After Dom's horrid performance against WV, this could be a bad one.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

So was Kelly's "deep thigh bruise" a ploy to not get injured seriously prior to announcing for the NFL? Had heard nothing of the injury before the game.


I had a weird thought go through my head...Maybe Kelly had already been in contact with agents was what I was thinking

[JLEW1818]

I know tennell got hurt badly , but does anyone know if he will be ready for opening day??

[sooner518]

Marcus Walker. After Dom's horrid performance against WV, this could be a bad one.
Marcus Walker is a senior already

[Desert Sapper]

Marcus Walker. After Dom's horrid performance against WV, this could be a bad one.

There were only two passing TDs in the game for WV. Marcus Walker missed crucial tackles on both of them.

[Breadburner]

Young Bush suck......

[effay]

Marcus Walker is a senior already

I know. I though we were talking about anyone who is leaving not just juniors.


There were only two passing TDs in the game for WV. Marcus Walker missed crucial tackles on both of them.

Pretty much every player on our team played like crap against WV except AP. No doubt Marcus probably had his worst day in pass coverage ever, but he has proven to be pretty solid during his career.

I think your point actually serves to illustrate mine: why would WV run so many of their running plays at Dom when they know Marcus is weak in the run game and at tackling? Because Dom gave up on every run to his side. The fact that Marcus was there to miss the tackles is more than Dom can say.

With our zone defense it is crucial to have corners that can play the run, which is why we recruit so many corner/safety hybrids. I don't know if Dom is going to be a good fit for our system in that regard. What makes the situation even worse is that I have heard that they are going to move Lendy back to corner (where he belongs) and put Dom at safety. I my be putting to much on one game, but based on the WV game, Dom is the last member of our secondary I would put at safety.

[Desert Sapper]

Pretty much every player on our team played like crap against WV except AP.... I may be putting to much on one game...

Agree and I think we all pretty much are. It's like this any time we lose. My point was that poor tackling, poor pursuit, and bad position were plaguing most of our players in that game. Walker, who has played the pass really well in the past, got pwn3d on two critical touchdown passes. It was like watching a high school D for a big stretch through the third and fourth quarters.

So, yes, Dom looked like Neon Deion against the run, but Marcus Walker was looking like the Fridge against the pass. And everybody knows the West Virginia passing attack doesn't exactly look like the New England Patriots.

[Eielson]

Hmm. Let's roll the dice to see who does what. 4 dice.

Number to go pro: 11

Smith: 14
Duke: 21
Lofton: 11

CRAP! Let's try this again

Number to go pro: 14

Smith: 17
Duke: 9
Lofton: 15

:(

[william_brasky]

Interesting NFL draft projections (http://youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)

[goingoneight]

Marcus Walker. After Dom's horrid performance against WV, this could be a bad one.

So that #24 who got beat for two touchdown passes against a team who sucks throwing the ball was Dominique? :confused:

[Desert Sapper]

So that #24 who got beat for two touchdown passes against a team who sucks throwing the ball was Dominique? :confused:

I mentioned the fact two days ago, and it somehow proved that Franks was playing horrible football. Go figure.

[Egeo]

I mentioned the fact two days ago, and it somehow proved that Franks was playing horrible football. Go figure.
his run support was horrible

[Desert Sapper]

his run support was horrible

I didn't see more than 2 or 3 guys on our D that were playing the run well. Everybody else was overpursuing, underpursuing, missing tackles, or just flat out in the wrong spot. Pointing at a guy in his first start and saying that he sucked at the run ignores what everybody else did.

Example: On the big Schmitt TD run, Franks is blitzing, makes an adjustment, then whiffs on the tackle. D-Will comes up to make the tackle and whiffs. Reynolds gets toasted. Wolfe underpursues, only catching him in the end zone.

Example2: On the first big TD pass, Wolfe bit on the run and Walker and Franks were covering two outside routes, leaving the middle of the field wide the hell open. Reynaud catches an easy TD and walks in. Backwards.

Example3: On the first Devine TD, Schmitt lays a nice block on Franks, the WV O-Line makes a nice crease, and Devine squirts thru. Lofton whiffs on the tackle and Wolfe underpursues.

Example4: The Reynaud end around. Franks overpursues. Harris overpursues. Lofton underpursues. Great seam from the WV O-Line once again. TD.

Example5: The second Devine TD. Wes Lyons, a WR listed at 6-8 and 220, seals Walker from the play. Wolfe, Lofton, and D Will get completely turned around. Franks comes from the backside, and nearly catches him, but Devine turns on the afterburners. TD.


So yeah, Franks looked bad against the run. But so did Reynolds. And D-Will. And Walker. And even Lofton when it really mattered. And pretty much everybody else on D. I would base nothing on this game. Franks might suck against the run, but this game shouldn't be the basis for that indictment.

[Curly Bill]

I didn't see more than 2 or 3 guys on our D that were playing the run well. Everybody else was overpursuing, underpursuing, missing tackles, or just flat out in the wrong spot. Pointing at a guy in his first start and saying that he sucked at the run ignores what everybody else did.

Example: On the big Schmitt TD run, Franks is blitzing, makes an adjustment, then whiffs on the tackle. D-Will comes up to make the tackle and whiffs. Reynolds gets toasted. Wolfe underpursues, only catching him in the end zone.

Example2: On the first big TD pass, Wolfe bit on the run and Walker and Franks were covering two outside routes, leaving the middle of the field wide the hell open. Reynaud catches an easy TD and walks in. Backwards.

Example3: On the first Devine TD, Schmitt lays a nice block on Franks, the WV O-Line makes a nice crease, and Devine squirts thru. Lofton whiffs on the tackle and Wolfe underpursues.

Example4: The Reynaud end around. Franks overpursues. Harris overpursues. Lofton underpursues. Great seam from the WV O-Line once again. TD.

Example5: The second Devine TD. Wes Lyons, a WR listed at 6-8 and 220, seals Walker from the play. Wolfe, Lofton, and D Will get completely turned around. Franks comes from the backside, and nearly catches him, but Devine turns on the afterburners. TD.


So yeah, Franks looked bad against the run. But so did Reynolds. And D-Will. And Walker. And even Lofton when it really mattered. And pretty much everybody else on D. I would base nothing on this game. Franks might suck against the run, but this game shouldn't be the basis for that indictment.

So what you're saying is whoever is in charge of the defense is not doing a good job with them...? I hear ya! :D

[Desert Sapper]

So what you're saying is whoever is in charge of the defense is not doing a good job with them...? I hear ya! :D

I'll say that we looked remarkably unprepared to handle an option offense like WV. It's as if we thought we could show up, run our D the way we always do, and beat the snot out of the Mountaineers. No patience. No staying home. Wayyyy too much overpursuit, underpursuit, etc.

Venables did a good job for most of the year, but it looked like he didn't game plan for this game. At all. It could just be players trying to do too much (which explains some of the mistakes), but the blitz packages are what ****ed me off. You can't blitz an option offense, because the QB is a primary weapon. You play assignment, reactive D, and you crush them by closing off each option systematically, until the QB is all that's left, and you lay the wood. But not until then. It all just boggles my mind.

[Curly Bill]

I would agree. Venables seems to do a good basic job, but when he has to scheme for something different it seems he is in over his head. Yes he did a good job agaisnt the Mizzu spread this year but remember that is something we see on a regular basis. Throw something different at him and watch the defense under perform.

[MiccoMacey]

So.....


DID WE LOSE ANY PLAYERS TO THE NFL OTHER THAN KELLY???

Freakin' thread jackers...;)


BTW, is the date to choose to go to the NFL over yet?

[Curly Bill]

So.....


DID WE LOSE ANY PLAYERS TO THE NFL OTHER THAN KELLY???

Freakin' thread jackers...;)


BTW, is the date to choose to go to the NFL over yet?

I wanted to make a wise-*** Venables comment here...but I got nuthin. :O

[MiccoMacey]

So...Venables is making Kelly go to the NFL????

Did he make any others go to the NFL?

And has he decided on what the last day to sign up for the NFL is?

;)

[TXBOOMER]

I bet we do not lose any of those 3 this year...

How much?

[MiccoMacey]

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS OR I WILL CONTINUE TO POST IN ALL-CAPS!!!!!!!!


DID ANY ONE ELSE DECLARE FOR THE NFL, AND WHAT IS THE LAST DAY FOR UNDERCLASSMEN TO DECLARE FOR THE NFL????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS MY LAST AND FINAL WARNING!!!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED....

[Desert Sapper]

So far only Kelly, but they have until tomorrow to declare (or change their mind if they've already declared). The list is here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/ncaa/01/09/early.entrees/index.html). Lots of familiar names on there.

[MiccoMacey]

Thank you.

I shall now resume in normal text writing.

Let this be a lesson to you all. Evil MiccoMacey exists. I try to hide him but he does rear his head from time to time to deal harshly with those who do not do as he bids.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Phil "Flozell" Loadholt could be the next

[Desert Sapper]

Curtis Lofton. ****.

[BillyBall]

Are there any press conferences set for this afternoon or is it a "no news is good news" sort of thing today?

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Are there any press conferences set for this afternoon or is it a "no news is good news" sort of thing today?


I would think no news is good news. I don't know that any of our other players would have a press conference to announce that they are staying.

[illinisooner]

Well, The Load parked next to me at King Copy about an hour ago...so I think he's still staying. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would begin the spring semester if he declared for the draft. I think Duke was with him as well, so that's good news.

[Collier11]

Any word on Reggie???

[OklahomaTuba]

I'm having a press conference at 2:30.

[Curly Bill]

I'm having a press conference at 2:30.

Your Mom is having a press conference at 2:30! :cool: ;)

Don't see many Momma jokes on here. Almost wonder if they're
persona non grata.

[BillyBall]

Your Mom is having a press conference at 2:30! :cool: ;)

Don't see many Momma jokes on here. Almost wonder if they're
persona non grata.

No, its just that they aren't funny.. ;)

[Egeo]

I didn't see more than 2 or 3 guys on our D that were playing the run well. Everybody else was overpursuing, underpursuing, missing tackles, or just flat out in the wrong spot. Pointing at a guy in his first start and saying that he sucked at the run ignores what everybody else did.

Example: On the big Schmitt TD run, Franks is blitzing, makes an adjustment, then whiffs on the tackle. D-Will comes up to make the tackle and whiffs. Reynolds gets toasted. Wolfe underpursues, only catching him in the end zone.

Example2: On the first big TD pass, Wolfe bit on the run and Walker and Franks were covering two outside routes, leaving the middle of the field wide the hell open. Reynaud catches an easy TD and walks in. Backwards.

Example3: On the first Devine TD, Schmitt lays a nice block on Franks, the WV O-Line makes a nice crease, and Devine squirts thru. Lofton whiffs on the tackle and Wolfe underpursues.

Example4: The Reynaud end around. Franks overpursues. Harris overpursues. Lofton underpursues. Great seam from the WV O-Line once again. TD.

Example5: The second Devine TD. Wes Lyons, a WR listed at 6-8 and 220, seals Walker from the play. Wolfe, Lofton, and D Will get completely turned around. Franks comes from the backside, and nearly catches him, but Devine turns on the afterburners. TD.


So yeah, Franks looked bad against the run. But so did Reynolds. And D-Will. And Walker. And even Lofton when it really mattered. And pretty much everybody else on D. I would base nothing on this game. Franks might suck against the run, but this game shouldn't be the basis for that indictment.
it wasnt that he missed tackes, it was the way he made holes as he was running away from blockers

[Curly Bill]

No, its just that they aren't funny.. ;)

Yeah well...your Mom's not funny. :D