PDA

View Full Version : Obama's church - Just thought this was interesting.



Pages : [1] 2

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:02 PM
Obama mentioned his church during his appearance with Oprah. It's the Trinity Church of Christ. I found this interesting.
Obama's church. Please read and go to this church's website and read what is written there. It is very alarming. Barack Obama is a member of this church and is running for President of the U.S. If you look at the first page of their website, you will learn that this congregation has a non-negotiable commitment to Africa. No where is AMERICA even mentioned. Notice too, what color you will need to be if you should want to join. Obama's church... B-L-A-C-K!!! Doesn't look like his choice of religion has improved much over his (former) Muslim upbringing. Are you aware that Obama's middle name is Mohammed? Strip away his nice looks, the big smile and smooth talk and what do you get? Certainly a racist, as plainly defined by the stated position of his church! And possibly a covert worshiper of the Muslim faith, even today. This guy desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa! I cannot believe this has not been all over the TV and newspapers. To think that Obama has even the slightest chance in the run for the presidency, is really scary. Click on the link below: This is the web page for the church Barack Obama belongs to.

www.tucc.org/about.htm

royalfan5
1/8/2008, 04:05 PM
Is this any different than any other denomination that has mission commitments to other parts of the world? My Church in rural Nebraska had a strong commitment to Africa as well. Ethnic ties are part of most old style denominations as well as missions to developing nations.

jeremy885
1/8/2008, 04:09 PM
So now people shouldn't vote for Obama because he's Christian :confused:

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:10 PM
I suggest you click the link and browse. You can't be a member unless you are black.

jeremy885
1/8/2008, 04:12 PM
It doesn't say you have to be black.

Mjcpr
1/8/2008, 04:12 PM
I suggest you click the link and browse. You can't be a member unless you are black.

Maybe it said big member.

Hot Rod
1/8/2008, 04:13 PM
I suggest you click the link and browse. You can't be a member unless you are black.

Where does it say this?

SoonerStormchaser
1/8/2008, 04:13 PM
So does this mean it's slightly above Westboro on the exclusion scale?

usmc-sooner
1/8/2008, 04:14 PM
I can't be a member my mothers half dutch

NormanPride
1/8/2008, 04:14 PM
I'm so glad people come up with new things for me to be afraid of and mad at. What would I do with myself otherwise?

C&CDean
1/8/2008, 04:15 PM
I wouldn't vote for Obama for a lot of other reasons than the fact he goes to a racist church. How bad would it suck when your choices are Hillary and Obama?

stoops the eternal pimp
1/8/2008, 04:15 PM
Is this any different than any other denomination that has mission commitments to other parts of the world? My Church in rural Nebraska had a strong commitment to Africa as well. Ethnic ties are part of most old style denominations as well as missions to developing nations.


Your right but this church is a bit extremist.

royalfan5
1/8/2008, 04:16 PM
I suggest you click the link and browse. You can't be a member unless you are black.
So? Trinity's mission is to serve a specific cultural segement. It's not uncommon in mainline denominations, especially as one as liberal as the UCC. As an example, in Omaha there are 16 Missouri Synod Lutheran Churches, including one that is especially for Sudanese refugees. Their focus is very much on Africa and their culture, in addition to being Lutheran.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:21 PM
So? Trinity's mission is to serve a specific cultural segement. It's not uncommon in mainline denominations, especially as one as liberal as the UCC.
Well, if I started a White-centric Church and said we have a non-negotiable commitment to Europe after leaving the equivalent of the Klu Klux Klan AND was running for POTUS. I doubt I'd be leading any polls even the warped Democrats.

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:25 PM
While I enjoyed your grossly overexaggerated diatribe, your argument is flawed on many levels. Clearly you didn't investigate very far, and likely stopped reading when you saw that the church used a slightly different perspective than a lot of 'mainstream' churches.

Essentially it's the same as "black" Baptist Churches all over the country, other than the name, and reflection upon history.


Dr. Wright’s talking points (3.1.7) for Trinity United Church of Christ its Web site and the Black Value System (in response to Erik Rush’s comments (2.28.07) on the Hannity and Colmes show):

• One of the biggest gaps in knowledge that causes the kind of ignorance that you hear spouted by this man [Erik Rush] and those like him, has to do with the fact that these persons are completely ignorant when it comes to the Black religious tradition. The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.

• Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology.

• I use the word “systematized” because Black liberation theology was in existence long before Dr. Cone’s book. It originates in the days of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was systematized and published by theologians, Old Testament scholars, New Testament scholars, ethicists, church historians, and historians of religion such as Dr. James Cone, Dr. Cain Hope Felder, Dr. Gayraud Wilmore, Dr. Jacqueline Grant, Dr. Kelley Brown Douglas, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Katie Cannon, Dr. Dwight Hopkins, Dr. Linda Thomas, and Dr. Randall Bailey.

• These scholars, who write in various disciplines, also include seminary presidents like Dr. John Kinney and professors of Hebrew Bible, like Dr. Jerome Ross. Black liberation theology defines Africans and African Americans as subjects – not the objects which colonizers and oppressors have consistently defined “others” as.

• We [African Americans] were always seen as objects. When we started defining ourselves, it scared those who try to control others by naming them and defining them for them; Oppressors do not like “others” defining themselves.

• To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

• There is more than one center from which to view the world. In the words of Dr. Janice Hale, “Difference does not mean deficience.” It is from this vantage point that Black liberation theology speaks.

• Systematized Black liberation theology is 40 years old. Scholars of African and African American religious history show that Black liberation theology, however, has been in existence for 400 years. It is found in the songs, the sermons, the testimonies and the oral literature of Africans throughout the Diaspora.

royalfan5
1/8/2008, 04:26 PM
Well, if I started a White-centric Church and said we have a non-negotiable commitment to Europe after leaving the equivalent of the Klu Klux Klan AND was running for POTUS. I doubt I'd be leading any polls even the warped Democrats.
It could be argued that most Christian Churches are white and euro-centric. Cultural Heritage plays a huge role in religion and to deny that is pretty short sighted. There are 75 UCC congregations in Chicago, and they all are going to fill a different niche.

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:27 PM
Well, if I started a White-centric Church and said we have a non-negotiable commitment to Europe after leaving the equivalent of the Klu Klux Klan AND was running for POTUS. I doubt I'd be leading any polls even the warped Democrats.

oh, and having early years of education in a 'muslim school' in a country like the Phillipines, and not being Muslim is akin to non catholics going to a private catholic school. It provided a better education in the particular location it was in. But feel free to grasp at more straws.

leavingthezoo
1/8/2008, 04:28 PM
Well, if I started a White-centric Church and said we have a non-negotiable commitment to Europe after leaving the equivalent of the Klu Klux Klan AND was running for POTUS. I doubt I'd be leading any polls even the warped Democrats.

this is dumb on so many levels.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:31 PM
It could be argued that most Christian Churches are white and euro-centric. Cultural Heritage plays a huge role in religion and to deny that is pretty short sighted. It could be argued but that doesn't make it true.

I don't even believe in God, so I think it's all a little silly. Killing in the name of God or Alla seems pretty asinine to me but he I'm just someone who calls a spade a spade (no pun intended).

Huckabee's religiosity bothers me even more.

And Romney's Mormonism is just as creepy.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:32 PM
oh, and having early years of education in a 'muslim school' in a country like the Phillipines, and not being Muslim is akin to non catholics going to a private catholic school. It provided a better education in the particular location it was in. But feel free to grasp at more straws.He's admited to being raised a Muslim. I don't know why dems like to ignore his own admission.

usmc-sooner
1/8/2008, 04:32 PM
It could be argued that most Christian Churches are white and euro-centric. Cultural Heritage plays a huge role in religion and to deny that is pretty short sighted. There are 75 UCC congregations in Chicago, and they all are going to fill a different niche.

actually I think there are more Hispanics that are Christians. Or maybe they have the highest % of their demographic that are Christian,

lots of Hispanic Catholics

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:34 PM
why does this guy have green spek?

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:37 PM
I suggest you click the link and browse. You can't be a member unless you are black.
It says this no where after browsing. Quit making up **** and post good things about a candidate you like instead of bashing one you don't.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:39 PM
why does this guy have green spek?Dude I just threw out a topic. Didn't even really have an opinion. I do find it interesting that Obama is the Dem frontrunner now and we no so little about him.

I think I have green because a few people around here like me. I guess that's how it works, right?

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:40 PM
He's admited to being raised a Muslim. I don't know why dems like to ignore his own admission.

probably because he never admitted a thing. he admitted to being in muslim schools as a child, and he was also in christian schools as a child. his father was an athiest during the early years of his life, and his mother was more determined to have him know something about various religions instead of growing up seeing and understanding one religious perspective.

the 'secret muslim' crap is urban legend started by people attempting to discredit his attempt to run for President. Truthfully, I think about 80% of it comes via Hillary's camp.

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:40 PM
Dude I just threw out a topic. Didn't even really have an opinion. I do find it interesting that Obama is the Dem frontrunner now and we no so little about him.

I think I have green because a few people around here like me. I guess that's how it works, right?
we "no" so little about him huh?


you NO NOTHING

NO MUAHAHAHAAHA

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:40 PM
It says this no where after browsing. Quit making up **** and post good things about a candidate you like instead of bashing one you don't.
It is implied. Do you think there are many white people there?

BTW - I ripped on two Repubs and ONE Dem in this thread for their religiosity.

Boarder
1/8/2008, 04:41 PM
He's admited to being raised a Muslim. I don't know why dems like to ignore his own admission.
What were you raised?

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:41 PM
actually I think there are more Hispanics that are Christians. Or maybe they have the highest % of their demographic that are Christian,

lots of Hispanic Catholics

yeah, former colonies of Spain and Portugal tend to have a great number of Catholics (central america, south america, the phillippines, etc.). Because of that Christianity is still the largest religion worldwide.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:42 PM
we "no" so little about him huh?


you NO NOTHING

NO MUAHAHAHAAHA
Wow, typo grief. That's original.

colleyvillesooner
1/8/2008, 04:43 PM
Coming from him, it's actually a pretty big deal. Consider yourself pwned.

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:43 PM
It is implied. Do you think there are many white people there?

BTW - I ripped on two Repubs and ONE Dem in this thread for their religiosity.

so far it's implied in this thread, that you're making a stretch on this subject. And, the only thing that we can take from this so far is that you fear religion being a central point of any potential discussion regarding a candidate for the Presidency of the United States.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:43 PM
What were you raised?Baptist, now I'm an agnostic. I think all the major religions have flaws.

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:43 PM
Wow, typo grief. That's original.
iF YOU ONly

KNEW

AHAHAHAHA

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:44 PM
so far it's implied in this thread, that you're making a stretch on this subject. And, the only thing that we can take from this so far is that you fear religion being a central point of any potential discussion regarding a candidate for the Presidency of the United States.Bingo. See my comments on Mit and Huckabee.

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:46 PM
Bingo. See my comments on Mit and Huckabee.i AM VOTING FOR oLD MCDNLAD

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:47 PM
Wow, you guys are ruthless. I start a contriversial topic and you neg spek me to the stone age. Not a single one signed btw.

Boarder
1/8/2008, 04:47 PM
Baptist, now I'm an agnostic. I think all the major religions have flaws.
Oh. So you were raised one way that has very distinct beliefs and now you are pretty much the opposite now that you're grown? Interesting. You must be the only one.

leavingthezoo
1/8/2008, 04:47 PM
Baptist

Now you're just trying to insight fear! :mad:































J/K to all the baptist folks! :D

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:48 PM
Bingo. See my comments on Mit and Huckabee.

Other than the ads run by Huckabee in Iowa, it's fair to say that none of the candidates have made religion a focal point of their campaigns.

Hell, Romney felt the need at one point during the campaign trail to address the fact that his religion isn't anywhere near the main point of his campaign or how he'll make decisions should he be elected to the Presidency.

I am curious where you got that rant from, since it's no doubt one of the new urban legend versions of "OMG Obama is Muslim!" floating around. You'd think they would have at least done more like Tuba and tried to play on Barack's middle name being Hussein instead of an out and out lie in saying it's Muhammad.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 04:49 PM
Oh. So you were raised one way that has very distinct beliefs and now you are pretty much the opposite now that you're grown? Interesting. You must be the only one.Nah, I still pray and live a christian life. I'm just not so sure Jesus was actually the son of God. I guess I'm in a transition.


And whomever is going back to neg every post I've ever made. That's really classy.

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:50 PM
Oh. So you were raised one way that has very distinct beliefs and now you are pretty much the opposite now that you're grown? Interesting. You must be the only one.Thats a great point.

You know, because Obama could never change his beliefs after he was raised a certain way. Only the great Civiucus Sooner could do that.

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:51 PM
Wow, you guys are ruthless. I start a contriversial topic and you neg spek me to the stone age. Not a single one signed btw.

fwiw, I didn't negspek you, I don't think anything you've posted here is worth my negspek. I might find it laughable, misinformed, ill informed, stupid, and flat out wrong. But, definitely not worth negspekking you.

Your pitiful attempts to negspek counterpoints by me, where I threw in tiny potshots is about as believable to me as Roger Clemens joke of a press conference yesterday trying to convince anyone that he didn't take steroids.

leavingthezoo
1/8/2008, 04:52 PM
Thats a great point.

You know, because Obama could never change his beliefs after he was raised a certain way. Only the great Civiucus Sooner could do that.

well, it would prove difficult if he'd never believed a certain way in the first place. but that's just splitting rabbits.

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:54 PM
well, it would prove difficult if he'd never believed a certain way in the first place. but that's just splitting rabbits.

mmm...I like split rabbit more than split plea soup.

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:54 PM
well, it would prove difficult if he'd never believed a certain way in the first place. but that's just splitting rabbits.I guess your right.

Now more on this splitting rabbits thing.:confused:

leavingthezoo
1/8/2008, 04:57 PM
it takes a machete. that's all i know. ;)

Scott D
1/8/2008, 04:58 PM
I guess your right.

Now more on this splitting rabbits thing.:confused:

I think zoo's idea of splitting rabbits isn't quite the same as your idea of splitting rabbits you freakin pervert! :eek: :D

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:58 PM
sounds scary

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 04:59 PM
I think zoo's idea of splitting rabbits isn't quite the same as your idea of splitting rabbits you freakin pervert! :eek: :D
This is why I love you Scott

leavingthezoo
1/8/2008, 05:00 PM
I think zoo's idea of splitting rabbits isn't quite the same as your idea of splitting rabbits you freakin pervert! :eek: :D

oh, zoo figured out what was in doleo's head, but she wasn't playing the game. ;)

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 05:01 PM
oh, zoo figured out what was in doleo's head, but she wasn't playing the game. ;)
No really thats what is funny. That was not in my head

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:09 PM
I've really enjoyed this site and really thought that this crazy post would spark some good humored talk about the role of religion and politics.

BTW - This was some stupid chain e-mail that I received that I cut and pasted. I guess I don't have the street cred around here to be this sarcastic.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 05:12 PM
I've really enjoyed this site and really thought that this crazy post would spark some good humored talk about the role of religion and politics.

BTW - This was some stupid chain e-mail that I received that I cut and pasted. I guess I don't have the street cred around here to be this sarcastic.

Sorry if I offended anyone.
I am black, and I am offended. I fill as if you think black people are bad, and thats its bad that he goes to an all black church.

I wish you had children so I could step on their balls and then you would know the pain I felt every mourning

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:16 PM
I am black, and I am offended. I fill as if you think black people are bad, and thats its bad that he goes to an all black church.

I wish you had children so I could step on their balls and then you would know the pain I felt every mourning
I'm a full blood Choctaw. Me and my family know a little something about bigotry.

I do have Children, so thanks.

usmc-sooner
1/8/2008, 05:17 PM
I am black

only in your dreams

Scott D
1/8/2008, 05:17 PM
only in your dreams

and everyone else's nightmares.

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 05:18 PM
I'm a full blood Choctaw. Me and my family know a little something about bigotry.

I do have Children, so thanks.
Your welcome.

I normaly don't talk to people on the boards unless I have fornicated with them. So unless you wanna do that

Collier11
1/8/2008, 05:18 PM
Obama mentioned his church during his appearance with Oprah. It's the Trinity Church of Christ. I found this interesting.
Obama's church. Please read and go to this church's website and read what is written there. It is very alarming. Barack Obama is a member of this church and is running for President of the U.S. If you look at the first page of their website, you will learn that this congregation has a non-negotiable commitment to Africa. No where is AMERICA even mentioned. Notice too, what color you will need to be if you should want to join. Obama's church... B-L-A-C-K!!! Doesn't look like his choice of religion has improved much over his (former) Muslim upbringing. Are you aware that Obama's middle name is Mohammed? Strip away his nice looks, the big smile and smooth talk and what do you get? Certainly a racist, as plainly defined by the stated position of his church! And possibly a covert worshiper of the Muslim faith, even today. This guy desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa! I cannot believe this has not been all over the TV and newspapers. To think that Obama has even the slightest chance in the run for the presidency, is really scary. Click on the link below: This is the web page for the church Barack Obama belongs to.

www.tucc.org/about.htm


ignorant much???

SCOUT
1/8/2008, 05:19 PM
While I enjoyed your grossly overexaggerated diatribe, your argument is flawed on many levels. Clearly you didn't investigate very far, and likely stopped reading when you saw that the church used a slightly different perspective than a lot of 'mainstream' churches.

Essentially it's the same as "black" Baptist Churches all over the country, other than the name, and reflection upon history.

Scott, you highlighted a couple bullet points. One of them was:

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

I am curious why you highlighted this one and if agree that European centered thought assumes superiority and looks at everyone else as being inferior.

I am NOT trying to stir the pot, I just thought it was an interesting bullet to highlight.

Scott D
1/8/2008, 05:19 PM
collier catch up...we're already on to what doleo does to split rabbits and his wistful internet blackness.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:20 PM
Your welcome.

I normaly don't talk to people on the boards unless I have fornicated with them. So unless you wanna do that
So you f*cked all these azzholes?

:D

Scott D
1/8/2008, 05:21 PM
Scott, you highlighted a couple bullet points. One of them was:

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

I am curious why you highlighted this one and if agree that European centered thought assumes superiority and looks at everyone else as being inferior.

I am NOT trying to stir the pot, I just thought it was an interesting bullet to highlight.

It was highlighted because I felt it was relevant in regards to the previous bullet point, plus the assertation in the cut/pasted chain letter in the original post.

usmc-sooner
1/8/2008, 05:21 PM
I bet Obama likes white women

mdklatt
1/8/2008, 05:21 PM
Well, if I started a White-centric Church

Like the Southern Baptist Convention?

:pop:

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 05:22 PM
So you f*cked all the azzholes?

:DYeah I like fornicating, its who I am. I have sacrificed so much of my life. Can I at least get laid?

SCOUT
1/8/2008, 05:23 PM
It was highlighted because I felt it was relevant in regards to the previous bullet point, plus the assertation in the cut/pasted chain letter in the original post.
Fair enough. Thanks

usmc-sooner
1/8/2008, 05:23 PM
I'm a full blood Choctaw.

Do you have to be like Choctaw to be a member :D

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:24 PM
Like the Southern Baptist Convention?

:pop:
It's like a third black and has many Native Americans in it too.

Scott D
1/8/2008, 05:24 PM
I bet Obama likes white women

don't tell Mrs. Obama...a mad black woman ain't somethin you wanna go home to ;)

Collier11
1/8/2008, 05:24 PM
He's admited to being raised a Muslim. I don't know why dems like to ignore his own admission.


actually his dad was muslim but converted to atheism before they even met, he has been quoted as saying that "he was not raised in a religious household"

Collier11
1/8/2008, 05:26 PM
collier catch up...we're already on to what doleo does to split rabbits and his wistful internet blackness.


im trying, there are too many pages

Scott D
1/8/2008, 05:26 PM
by page 5 (for 40 posts per page people) Collier might be getting to the first few posts of the second page :D

mdklatt
1/8/2008, 05:26 PM
Dude I just threw out a topic. Didn't even really have an opinion.

Then you might want to somehow indicate that. We can't tell the difference between something you cut and paste and something you typed out with your own little fingers.

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 05:26 PM
I be a witness there is only one god alll praise be the peace prophet mohamhmad, Man what?

I don't know man

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:27 PM
Do you have to be like Choctaw to be a member :D
Shhh, don't tell anyone but I'm half Cherokee. We can only pick tribe to be a member of. The Green Corn Dance scared me away from the Cherokee. Once was enough for me.

Collier11
1/8/2008, 05:28 PM
by page 5 (for 40 posts per page people) Collier might be getting to the first few posts of the second page :D


dont give me that much credit :confused:

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:28 PM
don't tell Mrs. Obama...a mad black woman ain't somethin you wanna go home to ;)
His Momma's white, right?

dolemitesooner
1/8/2008, 05:29 PM
I am the best ever I am the most ruthless champion ever. They say Civicus is the Conquoer..... No I am Alxenander he is no alexander. I am sonny liston I am jack dempsy

Ike
1/8/2008, 05:31 PM
Sometimes I wonder if it would just be easier to vote for president the way we used to vote for student councils in elementary school...just vote for whoever said they were going to extend recess.

Somehow, I don't think the end result would be much different than it is today...It would just be easier to ignore.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:33 PM
I am the best ever I am the most ruthless champion ever. They say Civicus is the Conquoer..... No I am Alxenander he is no alexander. I am sonny liston I am jack dempsyOkay, I have good info that you are not actually African American. Dude that's messed up and kinda funny but still messed up.:D

mdklatt
1/8/2008, 05:34 PM
Sometimes I wonder if it would just be easier to vote for president the way we used to vote for student councils in elementary school...just vote for whoever said they were going to extend recess.


Isn't that how it works now? Just replace recess with the pander of your choice.

Collier11
1/8/2008, 05:34 PM
No really thats what is funny. That was not in my head


its not what was in his head, its more about what his.....

Ike
1/8/2008, 05:37 PM
Isn't that how it works now? Just replace recess with the pander of your choice.


Thats the problem though...there are too many choices for pandering.

stoops the eternal pimp
1/8/2008, 05:39 PM
I bet Obama likes white women


Some republicans tried to set him up but I think their plan was foiled. This
pic did get out though
http://www.dvdjournal.com/reviewimgs/b/blazingsaddles_imgs/blazingsaddles_02.jpg

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:39 PM
My favorite is "CHANGE," Isn't every election about change? I mean unless you are the incumbent?

Change what exactly?

IB4OU2
1/8/2008, 05:40 PM
Okay, I have good info that you are not actually African American. Dude that's messed up and kinda funny but still messed up.:D

The pigmentation of ones skin has nothing to do with it...Doleo has soul.

Collier11
1/8/2008, 05:41 PM
The pigmentation of ones skin has nothing to do with it...Doleo has soul.


but, is he a soulja!?

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:47 PM
http://logo.cafepress.com/1/233790.2482251.JPG

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:49 PM
http://logo.cafepress.com/7/233790.2596057.JPG

bri
1/8/2008, 05:50 PM
why does this guy have green spek?

Hang on, dude. I'm workin' on it.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:51 PM
http://logo.cafepress.com/9/233790.2517899.JPG

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:52 PM
Hang on, dude. I'm workin' on it.We've made peace man. It was a tounge in cheek deal that got out of control fast.

Vaevictis
1/8/2008, 05:53 PM
He's admited to being raised a Muslim. I don't know why dems like to ignore his own admission.

... you realize that his early Muslim education and subsequent adoption of Christianity likely makes him an apostate right? In Islam, being an apostate is one of the only totally unforgivable sins.

If there's anything that they hate more than Jews and Christians, it's apostates. Normal Christians and Jews can be forgiven; they are merely ignorant. Apostates turn away from God and willfully blaspheme.

usmc-sooner
1/8/2008, 05:56 PM
well who in their right mind wants to vote for an apostate. Not me. I'm Republican we have no apostates in our mist.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:57 PM
... you realize that his early Muslim education and subsequent adoption of Christianity likely makes him an apostate right? In Islam, being an apostate is one of the only totally unforgivable sins.

If there's anything that they hate more than Jews and Christians, it's apostates. Normal Christians and Jews can be forgiven; they are merely ignorant. Apostates turn away from God and willfully blaspheme.See, honestly this is the type of discourse I was trying to get at with a silly chain e-mail. I'm just not all that familiar with what is socially acceptable on the SO just yet. I'm a hit on the football board. I guess it's going to be a long off season.

usmc-sooner
1/8/2008, 05:59 PM
See, honestly this is the type of discourse I was trying to get at with a silly chain e-mail. I'm just not all that familiar with what is socially acceptable on the SO just yet. I'm a hit on the football board. I guess it's going to be a long off season.

people who are hits on the football board don't need to tell us they're a hit

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 05:59 PM
http://logo.cafepress.com/3/233790.2518443.JPG

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 06:01 PM
people who are hits on the football board don't need to tell us they're a hitWell I mean I was well received. I dabble once or twice over here and I get the negative jihad unleashed on me for pointing out the ridiculous by being ridiculous.

Ike
1/8/2008, 06:02 PM
I'm just not all that familiar with what is socially acceptable on the SO just yet. I'm a hit on the football board. I guess it's going to be a long off season.


Either that, or you are another Helander in the making.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 06:03 PM
Either that, or you are another Helander in the making.What's a Helander?

Mjcpr
1/8/2008, 06:03 PM
Has anybody seen his Fatwah?

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 06:06 PM
http://logo.cafepress.com/6/773185.1514906.JPG

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 06:08 PM
http://logo.cafepress.com/7/773185.2075577.JPG

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 06:09 PM
http://logo.cafepress.com/5/773185.2072775.JPG

Okla-homey
1/8/2008, 06:10 PM
FWIW, the mass e-mail that was pasted in at the start of this thread has at least one inaccuracy. His middle name is Hussein, not Mohammed.

Just saying.

Civicus_Sooner
1/8/2008, 06:12 PM
FWIW, the mass e-mail that was pasted in at the start of this thread has at least one inaccuracy. His middle name is Hussein, not Mohammed.

Just saying.
That's one reason why I assumed everyone would have kinda seen that for what it was, goofy. The grammar and sentence structure was silly too.

Ike
1/8/2008, 06:16 PM
What's a Helander?
Paitence...you'll learn eventually.

Okla-homey
1/8/2008, 06:17 PM
That's one reason why I assumed everyone would have kinda seen that for what it was, goofy. The grammar and sentence structure was silly too.

Suuuuuuuuuuure ya did. Face it bro, with your post you tossed a box containing two dozen donuts into a crowd of fat girls (who are starting their diet tomorrow,) and you didn't even check to see if they were fresh.;)

Ike
1/8/2008, 06:24 PM
nm

TUSooner
1/8/2008, 07:46 PM
I thought his middle name was Hussein, not Mohammed.

I could have read the website and the whole thread, but nahh.

jeremy885
1/8/2008, 11:34 PM
Hang on, dude. I'm workin' on it.

You're not working hard enough.

Frozen Sooner
1/8/2008, 11:45 PM
*sniff*

I'm proud of the South Oval.

jeremy885
1/9/2008, 12:02 AM
I'm not. This thing should be over 10 pages now and be about gay marriage or 1tc liking small willies

Frozen Sooner
1/9/2008, 12:06 AM
I'm not. This thing should be over 10 pages now and be about gay marriage or 1tc liking small willies

Or?

Those two topics are in no way mutually exclusive.

jeremy885
1/9/2008, 12:08 AM
That would be around page 15

SoonerGirl06
1/9/2008, 12:17 AM
Sometimes I wonder if it would just be easier to vote for president the way we used to vote for student councils in elementary school...just vote for whoever said they were going to extend recess.

Somehow, I don't think the end result would be much different than it is today...It would just be easier to ignore.

I would definitely vote for a longer recess. Who has that in their platform?

SOONER STEAKER
1/9/2008, 12:21 AM
I thought his middle name was Hussein, not Mohammed.

I could have read the website and the whole thread, but nahh.

Barack Hussein Obama Bin Laden, something like that. By the way, he will not get my vote. Aren't we looking in the hills for this SOB?

jeremy885
1/9/2008, 12:22 AM
I would definitely vote for a longer recess. Who has that in their platform?

This guy

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/sect/election/primaries/results/candidate/bio/1380.jpg

plus, he has a hot wife or something

jeremy885
1/9/2008, 12:23 AM
Aren't we looking in the hills for this SOB?

OBL is in Tulsa?

Howzit
1/9/2008, 08:31 AM
... you realize that his early Muslim education and subsequent adoption of Christianity likely makes him an apostate right?

Oooh, that reminds me, I need to make a doctor's appointment for my annual.

:les: TOP O' THE PAGE YOU 30 PPP BRITCHES!!!!!1

Sooner_Bob
1/9/2008, 08:41 AM
There are all kinds of ethnic churches across the country. People go worship with people they are comfortable being with and who worship in a like manner.

Hopefully if someone who was indian, anglo, hispanic, or asian (or martian) wanted to visit this church they would be spiritually fed and not be subject to another agenda.

I know nothing about this particular church other than what is posted on its website.

I found this quote on their site:


W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.

From reading that quote and others on the site it would not be hard to see how some folks might infer that this particular church seems as concerned (or maybe more concerned) with addressing racism that affects them than they are with actually calling all to Christ. I'm not saying I do, just that some folks might.

I pray that that is not the case at all, and that this group is using a bible-based theology to truly educate and minister to people of all colors about the love of Christ and the salvation that can be found in him. Which in turn would show folks the importance of treating others with respect and basically "loving thy neighbor as thyself".

If that is truly their mission then anyone should be able to walk in off the street and be comforted.

sanantoniosooner
1/9/2008, 08:47 AM
I waited 7 pages before I called this thread stupid.

BlondeSoonerGirl
1/9/2008, 08:50 AM
This thread makes me do this:

:kelvin:

C&CDean
1/9/2008, 08:53 AM
Guess there ain't too many black african church goers in New Hampshuh.

Hamhock
1/9/2008, 09:15 AM
Maybe it said big member.


you rang?

OklahomaRed
1/9/2008, 11:13 AM
NH bought into Hillary's staged "iron my shirt" dude, and the women over 65 bought into her "emotional staged" near tears speech. The Clinton camp is so contrived it is humerous; however, it is interesting how some still buy into their theatrics and more of the same Clinton politics. Honestly, I would much rather Obama get elected than Hillary. Not because she is a woman, but because she if frickin' weird and crazy. The republicans can't seem to find a candidate worth running, either. We are all in for a heap of crap with whatever idiot that get elected.

Howzit
1/9/2008, 11:52 AM
Oooh, that reminds me, I need to make a doctor's appointment for my annual.

:les: TOP O' THE PAGE YOU 30 PPP BRITCHES!!!!!1

Cause...see...apostate sounds kinda like prostate...kinda...

Sooner_Bob
1/10/2008, 07:59 AM
Cause...see...apostate sounds kinda like prostate...kinda...



ewwwwwwwww

stoops the eternal pimp
3/15/2008, 09:55 AM
bumped this after some of the video I heard of the Pastor's comments during sermons that has made it to the airways..

If you havent heard I m sure there are links up to what he has said..

obama has officially denounced what he said and said in 20 years of attending the church, he never heard his pastor say anything like the videos that are out..

OklahomaTuba
3/15/2008, 12:52 PM
Wow.

The clips of this "pastor" just keep coming out.

The guy is a racist, angry anti-American bigot. How the hell someone attends a Church for 20 years and doesn't know this is beyond stupid.

I see very little difference between BHO's "Church" and place in Kansas that goes around telling people God hates faggs.

sooner_born_1960
3/15/2008, 12:56 PM
I didn't know there were videos.

StoopTroup
3/15/2008, 01:13 PM
Baptist, now I'm an agnostic. I think all the major religions have flaws.

I find this interesting as hypocrisy really was a very tough thing for me when I was younger.

My Parents were raised differently (Lutheran and Catholic).

As they had kids, they never really took the time to decide what faith to raise their children. They left it to us as they believed we would be able to make a decision on our own when the time came.

I have chosen not to do this with my own children as it was all such a waste of time.

My Wife and I came to the same conclusion that having God and Religion in our kids lives would enrich their lives and help them as they went out into the World on their own to have a Family and be a useful member of Society.

Focusing on hypocrisy only wasted precious time in my life and once I was able to put it aside, my eyes and mind were opened to a much more satifying and rewarding life.

I wish and pray for this relief for any of you who struggle day to day with the hypocrisies of this World.

God Bless

Have Faith.

ST

OUbones
3/15/2008, 02:51 PM
Mods why not just make this a sticky, since every week and half someone who obviously hasn't been paying attention to the 08 election or the been on the SO keeps bringing it up.

Jimminy Crimson
3/15/2008, 02:55 PM
How the hell someone attends a Church for 20 years and doesn't know this is beyond stupid.

This is Obama we're talking about. That shouldn't surprise you.


I see very little difference between BHO's "Church" and place in Kansas that goes around telling people God hates faggs.

I can see that.

Whet
3/15/2008, 04:12 PM
From Barry's own admission:


According to the good senator’s own admission, he selected Trinity because he was so taken with its pastor, Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., a liberal minister well-known for his dabbling in radical politics and delivering of music and profanity-laced sermons. Never before had Mr. Obama encountered a pastor who made religious pilgrimages to Africa, welcomed female clergy, had no problem with gay parishioners, and crooned Teddy Pendergrass rhythm and blues from the pulpit.
On a Sunday in 1988, Barack Obama was in the pews of Trinity Church when Pastor Wright preached a sermon entitled “The Audacity of Hope.” It is from this sermon that Mr. Obama got the title for his second bestselling book. According to Senator Obama, it was during Wright’s “The Audacity of Hope” sermon that the black liberation theology promoted by Trinity Church and proclaimed so boldly by its pastor began to dawn on him. In his bestselling memoir, Dreams From My Father, Obama explains how he began imagining during Wright’s sermon “the stories of ordinary black people merging…at the foot of the cross …with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians and the lion’s den [and] Ezekiel’s field of dry bones.” Suddenly and unexpectedly, Obama testifies to being overcome with emotion as it dawned on him for the first time that the Bible’s “stories of survival, freedom and hope” are really the black people’s story, as well as his own.

Okla-homey
3/15/2008, 04:19 PM
Never before had Mr. Obama encountered a pastor who made religious pilgrimages to Africa, welcomed female clergy, had no problem with gay parishioners, and crooned Teddy Pendergrass rhythm and blues from the pulpit.

female clergy!?!:eek:

That' tears it! As a Southern Baptist with Roman Catholic family and roots, I must declare this so-called reverend is offishully persona non grata. He's dead to me.

85Sooner
3/15/2008, 04:44 PM
Funny alot of early posters in jan said it was much ado about nothing.

I wouldn't vote for anyone who attends a "church" like this. I find it hard that he was a member for 18 years, married by the minister and kids baptized by the minister. participated with minister in giving award to Muslim Leader Farakhan, listed him as part of his campaign and did not know his ministers core beliefs. Sorry can't swallow that one.

Jerk
3/15/2008, 05:02 PM
Now some things become easily explained: his wife's comments about America, him not putting his hand over his heart during the anthem, refusing to wear a flag pin, etc. And he certainly surrounds himself with a bunch of people who believe that the U.S. is the biggest evil on the planet. Muslim? No. Far left-wing America-hater? Probably. The dots can be connected.

Whet
3/15/2008, 05:49 PM
Some missing information on the candidate for POTUS, his mentors with a few videos from You Tube. These pieces provide information for you to consider, how much stock you put into them is up to you:

The Rev Himself (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNTGRL0OJWQ&feature=related)

Not a video: Liberation Theology (http://www.knology.net/~bilrum/libtheo.htm) or Catholic View (http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=643)

Another Mentor (http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/)

More videos:

I gots no experience (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gexyfVpFMU)

I'll Return to Jimmy Carter's Defense Cuts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE)

Magnificant Accomplishments as Senator (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-jCBk4IAFM)

Mentors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_h-XwchkY)

For the First Time, I'm Proud (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYY73RO_egw)

and to throw a bone to the Barry is a Muslim sect,
Family Ties that Bind (http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/01/liberal_juan_wi.html)

Ash
3/15/2008, 06:44 PM
Obama mentioned his church during his appearance with Oprah. It's the Trinity Church of Christ. I found this interesting.
Obama's church. Please read and go to this church's website and read what is written there. It is very alarming. Barack Obama is a member of this church and is running for President of the U.S. If you look at the first page of their website, you will learn that this congregation has a non-negotiable commitment to Africa. No where is AMERICA even mentioned. Notice too, what color you will need to be if you should want to join. Obama's church... B-L-A-C-K!!! Doesn't look like his choice of religion has improved much over his (former) Muslim upbringing. Are you aware that Obama's middle name is Mohammed? Strip away his nice looks, the big smile and smooth talk and what do you get? Certainly a racist, as plainly defined by the stated position of his church! And possibly a covert worshiper of the Muslim faith, even today. This guy desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa! I cannot believe this has not been all over the TV and newspapers. To think that Obama has even the slightest chance in the run for the presidency, is really scary. Click on the link below: This is the web page for the church Barack Obama belongs to.

www.tucc.org/about.htm

This kind of stuff is hilarious. Do people really believe this nonsense?

Chuck Bao
3/15/2008, 07:12 PM
I love this and it actually convinces me to more actively campaign for Obama. What are you pussies afraid of, anyway? The guy just goes to a little more political and the-rich-white-guys-are-pushing-the-rest-of-us-down church. Halleluiah. And, I can say that because I'm not rich.

I want him as president because 1) a president can't really do that much anyway except look good and hopefully speak good and 2) we really need some checks and balances against those Washington insiders. McCain is just more of that squid pro quo.

Scott D
3/15/2008, 07:37 PM
Funny alot of early posters in jan said it was much ado about nothing.

I wouldn't vote for anyone who attends a "church" like this. I find it hard that he was a member for 18 years, married by the minister and kids baptized by the minister. participated with minister in giving award to Muslim Leader Farakhan, listed him as part of his campaign and did not know his ministers core beliefs. Sorry can't swallow that one.

so your voting decision hasn't been swayed, are you trying to convince everyone else. Or just trying to convince yourself?

Jerk
3/15/2008, 09:45 PM
I can't imagine Obama winning the general election after this. He won't win the rocky mountain states or the south. Kiss the Jewish vote in Florida goodbye. The union dudes in the rust belt might be staunch democrats, but they don't hate their own country.

Congrats, democrats. Once again you are going to nominate someone who is such a leftist loon that the republican canidate only needs a pulse to win.

JohnnyMack
3/15/2008, 09:48 PM
the republican canidate only needs a pulse to win.

If that's the case I'd say it's 60/40 McCain makes it to Inaguration day.

Civicus_Sooner
3/17/2008, 01:16 PM
I kinda figured when i first posted this that it would become an issue.

OklahomaTuba
3/17/2008, 01:31 PM
I love this and it actually convinces me to more actively campaign for Obama.

You like the fact that BHO goes to a Church like this, and keeps a racist bigot on his campaign staff?

You like the fact he is obviously lying about not knowing that his preacher is preaching hate for 20+ years (and how also married him)??

I thought liberals are supposed to be against hate?? Interesting that once their savior is found to be surrounding himself with racists like this "preacher" and other bigots of the sort, you don't have a problem it.

If the libz want to have any chance at winning this election, they had better figure out a way to get Billary nominated. Hussien getting nominated will end up in a landslide for McCain.

shaun4411
3/17/2008, 01:44 PM
i was listening to o'reilly this morning and he sent a correspondant to this church to talk to some of its goers. turns out they all love this guy and will backup whatever he says. when asking "even when he condems the united states and uses obviously racially charged speech?", to which the koolaid drinker responded "whatever he says i am behind him 100%."

it just comes to show how small-minded some people can really be. i dont believe obama echoes these sentiments, but if youre a public figure, your image is everything, and you have to be mindful of things like this. this guy is one of his best friends! one of my best friends is a preacher, and if he said things that i didnt agree with (racial/political hate speech), i would respectfully decline his offers to attend his services. it appears obama is either a horrible judge of character, or he didnt seem to mind knowing how his preacher feels about his country and how he feels about people the same color of his mother.

shaun4411
3/17/2008, 01:46 PM
If the libz want to have any chance at winning this election, they had better figure out a way to get Billary nominated. Hussien getting nominated will end up in a landslide for McCain.


that may be a somewhat accurate statement now, but over the past few months, the polls consistently represented that obama had the clear advantage over mccain and romney, and that clinton does not.

either way, this is the crumbling of a party, and mccain is well to just watch it atop his perch and ride the wave to november.

C&CDean
3/17/2008, 02:04 PM
I love this and it actually convinces me to more actively campaign for Obama. What are you pussies afraid of, anyway? The guy just goes to a little more political and the-rich-white-guys-are-pushing-the-rest-of-us-down church. Halleluiah. And, I can say that because I'm not rich.

I want him as president because 1) a president can't really do that much anyway except look good and hopefully speak good and 2) we really need some checks and balances against those Washington insiders. McCain is just more of that squid pro quo.


Meh. Stick to what you know. Buttplugs and buzzy toys.

JohnnyMack
3/17/2008, 02:09 PM
You like the fact that BHO goes to a Church like this, and keeps a racist bigot on his campaign staff?

You like the fact he is obviously lying about not knowing that his preacher is preaching hate for 20+ years (and how also married him)??

I thought liberals are supposed to be against hate?? Interesting that once their savior is found to be surrounding himself with racists like this "preacher" and other bigots of the sort, you don't have a problem it.

If the libz want to have any chance at winning this election, they had better figure out a way to get Billary nominated. Hussien getting nominated will end up in a landslide for McCain.

Yes, cause we all know how tolerant and accepting most Christians truly are. Not bigoted at all. :rolleyes:

Civicus_Sooner
3/17/2008, 02:16 PM
This kind of stuff is hilarious. Do people really believe this nonsense?

Check for yourself and decide for yourself. He belongs to a racist church and now Obama is distancing himself from the church he's been a member of for over 20 years. He's been caught in a couple of lies about the church too. At the end of the day, his wishy washy religiosity will doom him.

Jerk
3/17/2008, 02:20 PM
Yes, cause we all know how tolerant and accepting most Christians truly are. Not bigoted at all. :rolleyes:

I doubt you know 'all Christians' :rolleyes:


ARE THEY BLOWING UP CROWDED MARKETS OR FLYING AIRPLANES INTO BUILDINGS?

You people amaze me.

JohnnyMack
3/17/2008, 02:31 PM
I doubt you know 'all Christians' :rolleyes:


ARE THEY BLOWING UP CROWDED MARKETS OR FLYING AIRPLANES INTO BUILDINGS?

You people amaze me.

Just like ALL muslims are blowing up crowded markets and flying airplanes into buildings.

The point is that people wanna sit back and go to their suburban, WASP churches and hang out with the rest of their whitebread kind, patting each other on the back for what good people they are when truth be told the racism, bigotry and intolerance that run rampant in this country can't be talked about. It's the elephant in the corner that we as white, middle America know exists and when we're called on it, we tend to get a little defensive.

Jerk
3/17/2008, 02:36 PM
Just like ALL muslims are blowing up crowded markets and flying airplanes into buildings.

The point is that people wanna sit back and go to their suburban, WASP churches and hang out with the rest of their whitebread kind, patting each other on the back for what good people they are when truth be told the racism, bigotry and intolerance that run rampant in this country can't be talked about. It's the elephant in the corner that we as white, middle America know exists and when we're called on it, we tend to get a little defensive.

Oh, okay, you're a Reverend Wright kind of guy.

Oh, and I never said that all muslims were blowing up stuff.

JohnnyMack
3/17/2008, 02:40 PM
Oh, okay, you're a Reverend Wright kind of guy.

Keep ignoring the elephant.

Widescreen
3/17/2008, 02:42 PM
Yes, cause we all know how tolerant and accepting most Christians truly are. Not bigoted at all. :rolleyes:

Most Christians, huh? I'd love to know what your definition of bigoted is because I'm pretty sure it's dramatically different than mine.

shaun4411
3/17/2008, 02:45 PM
oh no no no christians dont blow up innocent people unless they happen to be collateral damage at an abortion clinic.

Frozen Sooner
3/17/2008, 02:47 PM
Tone down the rhetoric, everyone. Fair warning.

JohnnyMack
3/17/2008, 02:49 PM
Tone down the rhetoric, everyone. Fair warning.

I don't know if you know this or not, but I'm a 3 time arcade champion, I'm kind of a big deal.

C&CDean
3/17/2008, 02:51 PM
Just like ALL muslims are blowing up crowded markets and flying airplanes into buildings.

The point is that people wanna sit back and go to their suburban, WASP churches and hang out with the rest of their whitebread kind, patting each other on the back for what good people they are when truth be told the racism, bigotry and intolerance that run rampant in this country can't be talked about. It's the elephant in the corner that we as white, middle America know exists and when we're called on it, we tend to get a little defensive.


Please. Spare me the guilt/angst ridden lecture on how your and my daddy raised us up to be racist bigots. Spare me the "patting each other on the back for being crackers" rhetoric. It's lame, old, and reeks of liberal ignorance. Seriously.

If there was a church that preached white-only values, with a preacher man who preached racially-tinged sermons (with the emphasis being on his own race), etc. they'd be closed down or burned down.

When people like this dumbass minister continue to preach racism, please tell me how in the hell we're ever gonna get past it? Self-imposed segregation is just as bad as segregation that is imposed by others. Maybe even worse. As long as there's "blank" student clubs and "blank" churches and "blank" history months then there's gonna be bigotry and hate.

Don't be trying to act like all us white people fall into your narrow stereotype of middle-America whitebread. Wait, it's not your narrow stereotype, it's the narrow stereotype your people preach. Meh.

And by the way, anybody who votes for Obama because he's "black" (why in the hell is a guy who's half white always called black??) is the epitome of a racist. If you're voting for McCain based on his race, or Hill based on her twat; same thing.

shaun4411
3/17/2008, 03:00 PM
racism and bigotry has never been an issue for me. i am a white male american who resides in the middle class. perhaps it hasnt been an issue for me because i am in the majority, but at the same time, i dont possess views that cause me to look negatively upon those of a different race/creed/sex etc. i consider myself the typical person of my socioeconomic/race/gender status.

Scott D
3/17/2008, 03:05 PM
I'm voting for McCain because his daughter is a billion times hawter than Chelsea Clinton, and Obama's daughters are just well, too young.

Jerk
3/17/2008, 03:07 PM
Keep ignoring the elephant.

I have news for you. There is no whitebread conspiracy to hold the black man down. Yeah, we've made horrible mistakes in our past but there is no reason anyone can't get ahead today. The real elephant is something that's not politically correct to talk about, because it doesn't fit the class warfare agenda of the left. Truth be told, the real elephant is a two-headed monster: a lack of the black father in the black family, and black on black violence. Guilt-ridden whitebread replaced the black father with welfare. It will take strong leadership within the black community to reverse these problems. The fact is, the black man and woman are totally equal under the law, and nothing can deter them from being successful except a government which robs them of their spirit by making them dependent.

Scott D
3/17/2008, 03:11 PM
I have news for you. There is no whitebread conspiracy to hold the black man down. Yeah, we've made horrible mistakes in our past but there is no reason anyone can't get ahead today. The real elephant is something that's not politically correct to talk about, because it doesn't fit the class warfare agenda of the left. Truth be told, the real elephant is a two-headed monster: a lack of the black father in the black family, and black on black violence. Guilt-ridden whitebread replaced the black father with welfare. It will take strong leadership within the black community to reverse these problems. The fact is, the black man and woman are totally equal under the law, and nothing can deter them from being successful except a government which robs them of their spirit by making them dependent.

Depends on the perspective Jerk. The systematic destruction of the black family dates back to the slavery days when it was nothing for a slave owner to take a father/mother/or one or more children and have them thrown back up on an auction block or directly sell them individually to another slave owner. There are other issues at hand, but there was a beginning to the entire matter, and it's carried over through time.

Condescending Sooner
3/17/2008, 03:20 PM
I love this and it actually convinces me to more actively campaign for Obama. What are you pussies afraid of, anyway? The guy just goes to a little more political and the-rich-white-guys-are-pushing-the-rest-of-us-down church. Halleluiah. And, I can say that because I'm not rich.

I want him as president because 1) a president can't really do that much anyway except look good and hopefully speak good and 2) we really need some checks and balances against those Washington insiders. McCain is just more of that squid pro quo.

You don't even live in the country and have stated you know nothing about american politics. I don't think you campaining will make that much of a difference. Oh, and I would love for you to call Dean a ***** to his face.

Jerk
3/17/2008, 03:20 PM
Depends on the perspective Jerk. The systematic destruction of the black family dates back to the slavery days when it was nothing for a slave owner to take a father/mother/or one or more children and have them thrown back up on an auction block or directly sell them individually to another slave owner. There are other issues at hand, but there was a beginning to the entire matter, and it's carried over through time.

I can't argue with that.

C&CDean
3/17/2008, 03:21 PM
I'm voting for McCain because his daughter is a billion times hawter than Chelsea Clinton, and Obama's daughters are just well, too young.

My withered nutsack is a billion times hawter than Chelsea.

Condescending Sooner
3/17/2008, 03:24 PM
Depends on the perspective Jerk. The systematic destruction of the black family dates back to the slavery days when it was nothing for a slave owner to take a father/mother/or one or more children and have them thrown back up on an auction block or directly sell them individually to another slave owner. There are other issues at hand, but there was a beginning to the entire matter, and it's carried over through time.


What does that have to do with the culture today? There are few father figures in the household because of something that happened over 140 years ago? It didn't seem to be as much of a problem 50 or 60 years ago, why now?

Scott D
3/17/2008, 03:34 PM
What does that have to do with the culture today? There are few father figures in the household because of something that happened over 140 years ago? It didn't seem to be as much of a problem 50 or 60 years ago, why now?

It was a problem 50 or 60 years ago, just not as pronounced because the population was easily 1/3 smaller than what it is now. A bigger problem now is that thanks to the media/entertainment broken families are glorified in ways they shouldn't be. Highlighting the problem areas of society in general as being 'fun' or 'glorious' when they shouldn't be highlighted at all would head that list.

But since you've opened this can of worms. Consider that 50/60 years ago the primary money earner in a black home was the wife. The wife/mother that was usually working two jobs because in many places the husband/father wasn't able to get work (mostly in city environments, and yes there are a few case to case exceptions). In many cases now, you'll find that those numbers haven't changed much. For every successful story, there are probably two that go in the opposite direction.

Widescreen
3/17/2008, 03:45 PM
Depends on the perspective Jerk. The systematic destruction of the black family dates back to the slavery days when it was nothing for a slave owner to take a father/mother/or one or more children and have them thrown back up on an auction block or directly sell them individually to another slave owner. There are other issues at hand, but there was a beginning to the entire matter, and it's carried over through time.

Eventually, people are going to have to take responsibility for themselves and say "screw what happened 200 years ago. I'm going to build a strong family because it's the right thing to do."

In my mind it's kind of like the whole "my daddy beat me so that's why I beat my kids". People have got to take responsibility and stop doing things that are detrimental to their families (this is true regardless of race). Bill Cosby has been trying to propose these kinds of ideas but he's being drowned out by the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons.

JohnnyMack
3/17/2008, 03:53 PM
I have news for you. There is no whitebread conspiracy to hold the black man down. Yeah, we've made horrible mistakes in our past but there is no reason anyone can't get ahead today. The real elephant is something that's not politically correct to talk about, because it doesn't fit the class warfare agenda of the left. Truth be told, the real elephant is a two-headed monster: a lack of the black father in the black family, and black on black violence. Guilt-ridden whitebread replaced the black father with welfare. It will take strong leadership within the black community to reverse these problems. The fact is, the black man and woman are totally equal under the law, and nothing can deter them from being successful except a government which robs them of their spirit by making them dependent.

You're veering off course a bit. I'm addressing the notion of racism in general. To deny that it exists is absurd.

Condescending Sooner
3/17/2008, 03:54 PM
It was a problem 50 or 60 years ago, just not as pronounced because the population was easily 1/3 smaller than what it is now. A bigger problem now is that thanks to the media/entertainment broken families are glorified in ways they shouldn't be. Highlighting the problem areas of society in general as being 'fun' or 'glorious' when they shouldn't be highlighted at all would head that list.

But since you've opened this can of worms. Consider that 50/60 years ago the primary money earner in a black home was the wife. The wife/mother that was usually working two jobs because in many places the husband/father wasn't able to get work (mostly in city environments, and yes there are a few case to case exceptions). In many cases now, you'll find that those numbers haven't changed much. For every successful story, there are probably two that go in the opposite direction.

In 1960 75% of black children had two parents. Today it is less than 33%, so yes there has been a major change. I find it hard to believe that a black woman could find 2 jobs, but a black man couldn't find one.

Widescreen
3/17/2008, 04:03 PM
You're veering off course a bit. I'm addressing the notion of racism in general. To deny that it exists is absurd.

Of course it exists. Look at Obama's church's web site. Racism (while much less prevalent than it was even 20 years ago) is still alive and well regardless of race.

KC//CRIMSON
3/17/2008, 04:07 PM
I'm voting for McCain because his daughter is a billion times hawter than Chelsea Clinton, and Obama's daughters are just well, too young.

Have you and Dean's withered nutsack seen Chelsea Clinton lately?

Hawt.:hot:

and yes, like a triple bacon cheeseburger smothered in ranch.

C&CDean
3/17/2008, 04:29 PM
Have you and Dean's withered nutsack seen Chelsea Clinton lately?

Hawt.:hot:

and yes, like a triple bacon cheeseburger smothered in ranch.


Well on the scale, my nutsack runs about an 8.5. The taint scar adds character.

And no, I haven't seen the Clintonspawn lately.

SanJoaquinSooner
3/17/2008, 04:32 PM
This leaves me totally speechless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU&eurl=http://soonerpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2164

C&CDean
3/17/2008, 04:33 PM
Well then I guess I'm glad youtube is blocked here.

NormanPride
3/17/2008, 04:39 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c8/Chelsea_feb08_calpoly.jpg/225px-Chelsea_feb08_calpoly.jpg

I just know I'm gonna get negged for this. :D

Scott D
3/17/2008, 05:13 PM
In 1960 75% of black children had two parents. Today it is less than 33%, so yes there has been a major change. I find it hard to believe that a black woman could find 2 jobs, but a black man couldn't find one.

Well you're talking about holding two jobs for two different households as maids/cooks in comparison to a labor job which a male may or may not get, depending on how the current immigration situation is. In the 60s/70s those jobs were going to European immigrants. In the 90s/00s those same jobs are going to Hispanic immigrants. The fallout of that situation is raised unemployment in both the black and USA born hispanic community, and to a lesser degree poor caucasians.

Oldnslo
3/17/2008, 05:16 PM
I think Chelsea is semi-doable.

Just think of the stories!

Scott D
3/17/2008, 05:17 PM
Eventually, people are going to have to take responsibility for themselves and say "screw what happened 200 years ago. I'm going to build a strong family because it's the right thing to do."

In my mind it's kind of like the whole "my daddy beat me so that's why I beat my kids". People have got to take responsibility and stop doing things that are detrimental to their families (this is true regardless of race). Bill Cosby has been trying to propose these kinds of ideas but he's being drowned out by the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons.

And it's more than just a mindset that has to be changed in my opinion. It's a culture of sorts where the conditioning has been in place for a long time. Somewhere along the line the message of hope and the future has been lost in a lot of places, enough to the point that it's self perpetuating and as the population increases so do the feelings of hopelessness, being lost, and falling through the cracks of society as a whole.

Scott D
3/17/2008, 05:22 PM
Have you and Dean's withered nutsack seen Chelsea Clinton lately?

Hawt.:hot:

and yes, like a triple bacon cheeseburger smothered in ranch.

http://bigheaddc.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/meghan.jpg

far hawter than chelsea

Chuck Bao
3/17/2008, 06:13 PM
My withered nutsack is a billion times hawter than Chelsea.

See, that's what happens when someone is so fixated on their ghey bulls!

Let it go, man! Didn't you get rid of that bull like ages ago?

And, is it so wrong to say I don't care what they say in their churches. Preaching love and foregiveness is not so bad, I agree, but the suburban white churches do not necessarily preach that either.

If love the sinner, hate the latest inconvenient sin isn't like such a silly cop out, what is?

The clear issue here isn't religion, it's fear. It's all political and spreading fear when that really shouldn't be the issue. We've got major problems on the economic front.

And, yes, dean, I happen to know more things than butt plugs, not that I ever have admitted to carnal sin with an objet d'art. Buzzy things, you probably know more abouts.

I'm just not getting into this black man has been betrayed and brought down stuff, because I don't think it is the case anymore.

Listen up, it's like fluff and shock appeal. It's like I'll never vote for a gay person because he once marched in a gay pride parade, where other dudes were showing off their naughty parts.

It shouldn't be fear that that is the issue, but more open mindness to make needed changes to our political system that should be the real issue.

But, if so you are happy with things as they are, go ahead and spread that fear.

BigRedJed
3/17/2008, 06:46 PM
Holy crap! McCain's daughter is a Hooters girl?

BigRedJed
3/17/2008, 06:52 PM
I think I'll side with KC//CRIMSON here. Doable. In a pinch, at least.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/128241/2_22_061404_clinton_chelsea.jpg

KC//CRIMSON
3/17/2008, 06:55 PM
http://bigheaddc.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/meghan.jpg

far hawter than chelsea

Hey, It's Brooke Hogan! Check out the man chin.

Chuck Bao
3/17/2008, 06:58 PM
Women who work at investment banks are probably not interested in me. Just saying that I'm neither a bank or a very good investment. Other than that, yeah, doable.

SanJoaquinSooner
3/17/2008, 09:43 PM
This leaves me totally speechless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU&eurl=http://soonerpolitics.yuku.com/topic/2164



Well then I guess I'm glad youtube is blocked here.

do you mean embedded youtube is blocked or links to youtube as well?

SoonerKnight
3/17/2008, 11:48 PM
I
I want him as president because 1) a president can't really do that much anyway except look good and hopefully speak good and 2) we really need some checks and balances against those Washington insiders. McCain is just more of that squid pro quo.

Can't do much huh? Yeah right. We are not England there buddy!

def_lazer_fc
3/18/2008, 04:40 AM
Oh, and I would love for you to call Dean a ***** to his face.

Howard Dean or the mod. i'd have no problem with either. much love to them both though. ;)

def_lazer_fc
3/18/2008, 04:44 AM
(why in the hell is a guy who's half white always called black??)

im no expert, but its probably b/c even though they are mixed, they are still seen in the public eye as black. i mean, the first time you saw Obama, you probably didn't think to yourself, "hey, who's this white guy?"

Okla-homey
3/18/2008, 06:31 AM
im no expert, but its probably b/c even though they are mixed, they are still seen in the public eye as black. i mean, the first time you saw Obama, you probably didn't think to yourself, "hey, who's this white guy?"

IMHO, it's a carryover from the era when whites defined peoples' race by whether they were of pure caucasion blood or had some mixture of another race in their blood. They even had names for such mixed race people. Names like creole, mestizo, mulatto, quadroon, octoroon. It seems that people with less than an eighth mixture of another race could "pass" as white so they didn't have a label for such folks.

Now, for some reason unfathomable to me, people still seem to cling to the notion a person is black, indian, asian, etc. if they have at least a great grandparent of that race. It's actually a legacy of an earlier and more repressive era, but I guess old traditions die hard. especially when race is involved.

Scott D
3/18/2008, 07:05 AM
I think I'll side with KC//CRIMSON here. Doable. In a pinch, at least.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/128241/2_22_061404_clinton_chelsea.jpg

you do realize that she is a pure case of going to look exactly like her mother in 10 years. She's even got the same gaping pie hole as her old lady.

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 09:02 AM
I do realize that. Hillary was also hittable at one point. She just made bad fashion choices.

C&CDean
3/18/2008, 09:08 AM
You guys seriously need to get out more often. I wouldn't hit Chelsea Clinton with Jed's dick. Hillary was doable? Dude, she's a two-bagger. Yes, I've woken up next to worse, however, while in a sober state, I couldn't even cop wood envisioning a 3-way with Chelsea and Hillary. In fact, my ernie just went inverted thinking about it. Those bitches be fugly now.

Okla-homey
3/18/2008, 09:26 AM
You guys seriously need to get out more often. I wouldn't hit Chelsea Clinton with Jed's dick. Hillary was doable? Dude, she's a two-bagger. Yes, I've woken up next to worse, however, while in a sober state, I couldn't even cop wood envisioning a 3-way with Chelsea and Hillary. In fact, my ernie just went inverted thinking about it. Those bitches be fugly now.

HRC is American League anyway. Looks ain't important to those kinda wimmens.;)

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 09:34 AM
Nah, Dean, you're letting politics taint your opinion. Hillary is definitely scary now, and in fact most of her adult life. But she did experience a very short hittable window. Chelsea is now in her hittable window. It won't last long.

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 09:35 AM
Heh. I worked "taint" into a conversation with Dean.

C&CDean
3/18/2008, 09:47 AM
Taint nothin' to it.

Politics aside, the Clinton girls just don't do it for me. Neither does McCain's daughter. She looks like a stripper, and stripper chicks have never been my cup o' tea.

Bush's daughters? Sure I could in a fix. Algore's daughters? Same thing. Clinton women? Nope. There's just something nasty about them that I can't put my finger on.

JohnnyMack
3/18/2008, 09:56 AM
I say 2 shots of CC washed down with half a six pack of Mich Ultra and Dean is knocking boots with Chelsea.

Cooter Finger
3/18/2008, 09:57 AM
Taint nothin' to it.

Politics aside, the Clinton girls just don't do it for me. Neither does McCain's daughter. She looks like a stripper, and stripper chicks have never been my cup o' tea.

Bush's daughters? Sure I could in a fix. Algore's daughters? Same thing. Clinton women? Nope. There's just something nasty about them that I can't put my finger on.
Huh?

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 09:59 AM
I say 2 shots of CC washed down with half a six pack of Mich Ultra and Dean is knocking boots with Chelsea.
DING DING DING!!!

C&CDean
3/18/2008, 10:00 AM
Let's see, 2 shots and 3 beers? Hell man, that's still 2 shots and a couple beers from sober. No way in hell.

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 10:04 AM
A-HA!! So you do admit that you would knock boots with her. Now it's just down to how drunk you'd have to be.

C&CDean
3/18/2008, 10:07 AM
Hell man, if enough likker was involved, I'd knock boots with you.

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 10:16 AM
I KNEW IT!!

:eek:

JohnnyMack
3/18/2008, 10:25 AM
Room.

Civicus_Sooner
3/18/2008, 10:29 AM
She's even got the same gaping pie hole as her old lady.
Well, at least she won't complain while she's mouth huggin me. ;)

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 10:51 AM
Room.
It's just all of the times I've called him Big Poppa. It makes him think of BSG, and it gets his wires all crossed.

JohnnyMack
3/18/2008, 10:54 AM
It's just all of the times I've called him Big Poppa. It makes him think of BSG, and it gets his wires all crossed.



Dear Penthouse Forums,

I never thought this would happen to me. I was at a tailgate for my local football team. I went into the RV to use the bathroom and....

KC//CRIMSON
3/18/2008, 11:47 AM
ernie.

shaun4411
3/18/2008, 12:02 PM
this is a bit of a stretch from the topic of obama's church

shaun4411
3/18/2008, 12:05 PM
Taint nothin' to it.

Politics aside, the Clinton girls just don't do it for me. Neither does McCain's daughter. She looks like a stripper, and stripper chicks have never been my cup o' tea.

Bush's daughters? Sure I could in a fix. Algore's daughters? Same thing. Clinton women? Nope. There's just something nasty about them that I can't put my finger on.

jenna bush is nice because her vagina is on the internet.

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 12:08 PM
this is a bit of a stretch from the topic of obama's church
Thank goodness.

VeeJay
3/18/2008, 12:24 PM
jenna bush is nice because her vagina is on the internet.

Where?

Widescreen
3/18/2008, 12:25 PM
I do realize that. Hillary was also hittable at one point. She just made bad fashion choices.

http://www.zombietime.com/really_truly_hillary_gallery/Hillary5.jpg

I see what you mean.

Check out this link. Some really funny photos.

http://www.zombietime.com/really_truly_hillary_gallery/

Civicus_Sooner
3/18/2008, 12:37 PM
http://www.zombietime.com/really_truly_hillary_gallery/Hillary5.jpg

I see what you mean.

Check out this link. Some really funny photos.

http://www.zombietime.com/really_truly_hillary_gallery/Thunder thighs from the begining, I see.

JohnnyMack
3/18/2008, 01:31 PM
Obama's response follows:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23691239#23691239

C&CDean
3/18/2008, 02:22 PM
So did he say he wouldn't hit Hillary or Chelsea either?

BigRedJed
3/18/2008, 02:26 PM
WHERE THE WHITE WOMEN AT?

Widescreen
3/18/2008, 02:39 PM
http://www.zombietime.com/really_truly_hillary_gallery/Hillary90.jpg

Clinton doing his best Dan Haggerty impression. Or possibly someone from ELO.

JohnnyMack
3/18/2008, 02:57 PM
I wouldn't hit her with Widescreen's dick.

Whet
3/18/2008, 02:58 PM
I was thinking (yes, that could be frightening) that since I live in the Chicago area, how about a couple of other brave foks join me on a Sunday trip to the Rev. Wright's church service?

What about it, any takers?

Widescreen
3/18/2008, 03:06 PM
I wouldn't hit her with Widescreen's dick.

:mad: There sure is a lot of using other people's paraphernalia going on in this thread.

shaun4411
3/18/2008, 03:57 PM
I was thinking (yes, that could be frightening) that since I live in the Chicago area, how about a couple of other brave foks join me on a Sunday trip to the Rev. Wright's church service?

What about it, any takers?

are you white?

Scott D
3/18/2008, 04:13 PM
I was thinking (yes, that could be frightening) that since I live in the Chicago area, how about a couple of other brave foks join me on a Sunday trip to the Rev. Wright's church service?

What about it, any takers?

That'd be a moot point since Rev. Wright has retired. But hell I'd go, ain't nothin' I ain't heard before.

Widescreen
3/18/2008, 04:42 PM
That'd be a moot point since Rev. Wright has retired. But hell I'd go, ain't nothin' I ain't heard before.

WHY WON'T YOU REFUTE HIM!!!!11!1!!!!

mdklatt
3/18/2008, 04:56 PM
WHY WON'T YOU REFUTE HIM!!!!11!1!!!!

The question is, will he refute, reject, disavow, or rebuke him?

C&CDean
3/18/2008, 05:08 PM
If you won't refute, you can't compute.

Reject or subject.

Disavow and take a bow.

Rebuke and drop a muh****in' nuke.

See, being Jesse Jackson ain't so hard.

Scott D
3/18/2008, 06:37 PM
WHY WON'T YOU REFUTE HIM!!!!11!1!!!!

probably because I think that flawed American Foreign Policy has played an unintended role in the rise of terrorism.

shaun4411
3/18/2008, 07:28 PM
I wouldn't hit her with Widescreen's dick.

apparently, neither would bill.

Big Red Ron
3/18/2008, 10:33 PM
probably because I think that flawed American Foreign Policy has played an unintended role in the rise of terrorism.I assume you believe Clinton's was better? We got the USS Cole, the bombings at our embassy, the downtown NYC bombings and 911 for the nice guy approach.

I think we (the military and their civilian bosses) fully intended the actions we are reaping now. We must eliminate the terrorists and their allies. Plain and simple.

Wipe them off the earth, extermination type stuff. Getting medieval on their asses is all the understand. Weakness and diplomacy does nothing to protect us from them.

Scott D
3/19/2008, 07:08 AM
I assume you believe Clinton's was better? We got the USS Cole, the bombings at our embassy, the downtown NYC bombings and 911 for the nice guy approach.

I think we (the military and their civilian bosses) fully intended the actions we are reaping now. We must eliminate the terrorists and their allies. Plain and simple.

Wipe them off the earth, extermination type stuff. Getting medieval on their asses is all the understand. Weakness and diplomacy does nothing to protect us from them.

No, because the failures in foreign policy extend much farther back than Bush, hell they extend back to pre-FDR. The primary problem is that our foreign policy tends to be short sighted and focuses more on short term goals. Because of that, there are a vast possibility for unintended negative effects. Or in short, we're dealing with a problem that is a byproduct of poor judgment decades ago.

It's really not that hard to say "hey, there might have been a point that we ****ed up and helped create this mess." I mean obviously making a weakling into a puppet in the Shah worked out great for us. Supporting Saddam against Iran worked beautifully for us as well. Giving Bin Laden weapons to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan worked wonderfully for us.

All of those were short term solutions for short term goals, all of those ended up with unintended negative results. Apparently it's wrong on this board to look at a bigger picture than "zomg, there are terrists attakin us, we best done wipe em offa da face o da earf."

Condescending Sooner
3/19/2008, 08:37 AM
No, because the failures in foreign policy extend much farther back than Bush, hell they extend back to pre-FDR. The primary problem is that our foreign policy tends to be short sighted and focuses more on short term goals. Because of that, there are a vast possibility for unintended negative effects. Or in short, we're dealing with a problem that is a byproduct of poor judgment decades ago.

It's really not that hard to say "hey, there might have been a point that we ****ed up and helped create this mess." I mean obviously making a weakling into a puppet in the Shah worked out great for us. Supporting Saddam against Iran worked beautifully for us as well. Giving Bin Laden weapons to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan worked wonderfully for us.

All of those were short term solutions for short term goals, all of those ended up with unintended negative results. Apparently it's wrong on this board to look at a bigger picture than "zomg, there are terrists attakin us, we best done wipe em offa da face o da earf."

Too bad you're not in charge of foreign relations. You're a freakin expert genius.

JohnnyMack
3/19/2008, 09:58 AM
No, because the failures in foreign policy extend much farther back than Bush, hell they extend back to pre-FDR. The primary problem is that our foreign policy tends to be short sighted and focuses more on short term goals. Because of that, there are a vast possibility for unintended negative effects. Or in short, we're dealing with a problem that is a byproduct of poor judgment decades ago.

It's really not that hard to say "hey, there might have been a point that we ****ed up and helped create this mess." I mean obviously making a weakling into a puppet in the Shah worked out great for us. Supporting Saddam against Iran worked beautifully for us as well. Giving Bin Laden weapons to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan worked wonderfully for us.

All of those were short term solutions for short term goals, all of those ended up with unintended negative results. Apparently it's wrong on this board to look at a bigger picture than "zomg, there are terrists attakin us, we best done wipe em offa da face o da earf."

I watched the show on the History Channel about the Baath party and how it allied itself with the Nazis during WWII. The Nazis knew there was oil in Iraq (which they desperately need for their war machine) and the Baathists knew they needed help from Germany to get the crown run out of town. So they teamed up as it helped each of their own interests. Then in the 60's the USA (allegedly) helped the Baath party rise up against the Iraq Communist Party to help thwart the spread of the red menace. Then your aforementioned assistance of Saddam against Iran.

Any country will ally itself with any other country if it serves its short term interest.

Widescreen
3/19/2008, 10:12 AM
probably because I think that flawed American Foreign Policy has played an unintended role in the rise of terrorism.

I was messing with you, Mr. Serious.

Civicus_Sooner
3/19/2008, 12:50 PM
I assume you believe Clinton's was better? We got the USS Cole, the bombings at our embassy, the downtown NYC bombings and 911 for the nice guy approach.

I think we (the military and their civilian bosses) fully intended the actions we are reaping now. We must eliminate the terrorists and their allies. Plain and simple.

Wipe them off the earth, extermination type stuff. Getting medieval on their asses is all the understand. Weakness and diplomacy does nothing to protect us from them.
Agree with everything here!

picasso
3/19/2008, 01:09 PM
I was thinking (yes, that could be frightening) that since I live in the Chicago area, how about a couple of other brave foks join me on a Sunday trip to the Rev. Wright's church service?

What about it, any takers?

he's outta the country isn't he?

soonerscuba
3/19/2008, 01:33 PM
Ah, the '93 WTC bombing is Clintons fault because he was in office, 9/11 was Clinton's fault because well, he's Bill Clinton and if it takes a nuance to explain, you are probably safer just blaming him.

shaun4411
3/19/2008, 01:43 PM
I watched the show on the History Channel about the Baath party and how it allied itself with the Nazis during WWII. The Nazis knew there was oil in Iraq (which they desperately need for their war machine) and the Baathists knew they needed help from Germany to get the crown run out of town. So they teamed up as it helped each of their own interests. Then in the 60's the USA (allegedly) helped the Baath party rise up against the Iraq Communist Party to help thwart the spread of the red menace. Then your aforementioned assistance of Saddam against Iran.

Any country will ally itself with any other country if it serves its short term interest.

that is evident throughout history. e.g.

usa friendly with shah of iran
usa arms saddam's iraq against iran
usa friendly with taliban fighting ruskies

usa now : enemies with taliban, on thin ice with iran, and led the killing of saddam hussein. we arent exactly best friends with tussia, but we are on friendly terms. things just change.

Civicus_Sooner
3/19/2008, 03:10 PM
Ah, the '93 WTC bombing is Clintons fault because he was in office, 9/11 was Clinton's fault because well, he's Bill Clinton and if it takes a nuance to explain, you are probably safer just blaming him.
Actually it was Clinton's abismal foreign policy that led to much of what happened during and right after his term.

Burry your head and hope for the best isn't a cogent plan. I like kick *** and take names a hell of al ot better.

Scott D
3/19/2008, 05:53 PM
Too bad you're not in charge of foreign relations. You're a freakin expert genius.

I think that's about as close to a compliment as anyone would ever get from you.

OklahomaTuba
3/19/2008, 08:07 PM
Actually it was Clinton's abismal foreign policy that led to much of what happened during and right after his term.

Burry your head and hope for the best isn't a cogent plan. I like kick *** and take names a hell of al ot better.

Libz seem to forget the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998 that Clinton signed into law.

I wonder why??? ;)

Big Red Ron
3/19/2008, 10:26 PM
Libz seem to forget the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998 that Clinton signed into law.

I wonder why??? ;)
Thread ender. Nicely done! Spek!

soonerscuba
3/19/2008, 10:51 PM
Actually it was Clinton's abismal foreign policy that led to much of what happened during and right after his term.

Burry your head and hope for the best isn't a cogent plan. I like kick *** and take names a hell of al ot better.
By your own logic, how is the 93 bombing not H.W. Bush's fault? Bush II was actually president longer than Clinton when 9/11 happened.

I don't really care if you answer or not, I blame terrorists for what terrorist attacks. Blaming presidents is partisan hackery.

JohnnyMack
3/20/2008, 09:28 AM
I don't really care if you answer or not, I blame terrorists for what terrorist attacks. Blaming presidents is partisan hackery.

But you also have to make an effort at understanding why the terrorists are doing what they're doing.

Widescreen
3/20/2008, 09:57 AM
But you also have to make an effort at understanding why the terrorists are doing what they're doing.

Because they think that people who won't convert should die. And they will do anything to make that happen. You can try to defend them all day by saying our foreign policy brought all this on but these people hate. That's what they do. They hate America and want us to die. They hate Israel and want them to die. Negotiating is not an option when the other side simply wants you dead.

C&CDean
3/20/2008, 10:21 AM
But you also have to make an effort at understanding why the terrorists are doing what they're doing.

Uh, because they're bat**** crazy camel ****ers that hate everything about us?

**** em'.

JohnnyMack
3/20/2008, 10:32 AM
Because they think that people who won't convert should die. And they will do anything to make that happen. You can try to defend them all day by saying our foreign policy brought all this on but these people hate. That's what they do. They hate America and want us to die. They hate Israel and want them to die. Negotiating is not an option when the other side simply wants you dead.

I'm not trying to defend them (but thanks for your Tuba-like assumption), I'm trying to point out that 09/11 didn't come about without reason. Now the justification the terrorists used isn't something most in the west agree with, however in their mind, there is a reason for what they're doing.