So we Bitch about Brent Venables

[auto]

We bitched when Bo Pelini was here, how in the world can he do that well at LSU? I mean the athletes can't be that much better than OU. Someone please explain this to me. Please.

[Ground_Attack]

you blame whoever is in charge when the travesty occurs. simple as that.

[OU-HSV]

you blame whoever is in charge when the travesty occurs. simple as that.
Especially when it occurs multiple times under the same d-coordinator's watch.

[hink4769]

Because many think Mike Stoops is some kind of god

[sooneron]

Because many think Mike Stoops is some kind of god
He's NOT!!!!???

http://www.bigfanboy.com/pages/reviews/filmreviews/2006/apocalypto/apocalypto-temple.jpg

[csbst2]

Look, I know it sucks that we lost, but thats life. I remember the early 90's, and it was not alot of fun. I will take somewhere in the top ten each year over not even .500. Yes we have a higher expectation, but guess what we can't always win. Plus, think about the last few years, almost all BCS games. Not too bad, yes we have struggled in the past few, but parity is in college football too. If all a team hears for a month strait is how they can't win and have no chance, they play with lots of emotion. That can be hard to beat. Yea the schemes may not have been the best, but guess what IT WASN'T FOR THE NATIONAL TITLE, it was for a ranking. Who in ten years is going to remember the ranking? We will be back, and better. We have a great looking future, our egos are bruised a bit, but next year always comes, and the chance for a National Title is def there. So lets look to the future and back our team, when they need it most. BOOMER SOONER!

[Ground_Attack]

but guess what IT WASN'T FOR THE NATIONAL TITLE, it was for a ranking. Who in ten years is going to remember the ranking?

That attitude is what really chaps me. If you aren't playing for the title, who cares? What an Aggy attitude.

[OU-HSV]

That attitude is what really chaps me. If you aren't playing for the title, who cares? What an Aggy attitude.
Exactly what I was thinking. It's like if we only appear in big bowl games then that is good enough and we don't have to win them....WELL I don't agree with that sh*t at all. We need to win. Not lose 4 out of the last 4 BCS bowl games! Yeah we all remember the 90's...but this aint the 90's anymore so I wish people would quit trying to relieve the frustration of the losses we've faced the last few years by simply saying "well, we're better than we were in the 90's so that ought to be good enough".
It doesn't work like that...not with the talent we have on the team and not as a supposed national powerhouse team. Stoops has had 9 years and has impressively rebuilt the program from the 90's slump...we should be winning some (preferably all) of these bowl games we've gotten to. We are a big time program with big time players and we should be that good at this point in time.
I've said it before...I'm not blaming Stoops, but I will say that as bright and great of a coach as he is he must know that it's ultimately his responsibility to figure out what has gone wrong, and fix it.

[kingsby]

Because many think Mike Stoops is some kind of god

Not at all - he had a bad games - but his defense was much more consistent and much less likely to give up 30-40 points in a game

[Horns 72]

"We bitched when Bo Pelini was here, how in the world can he do that well at LSU? I mean the athletes can't be that much better than OU. Someone please explain this to me. Please."

Not ALL of us bitched about Bo. Some of us thought Brent should have been let go instead of Bo. But here we are, with Bo & LSU winning it all.

[NYC Poke]

That attitude is what really chaps me. If you aren't playing for the title, who cares? What an Aggy attitude.

Take that back. All we have to play for is rankings.*




*Except for 1945 or whatever.

[Redgiant2]

Yes, unfortunately Bo couldn't beat a path out of Norman fast enough having to work with the ball and chain that is BV. He spent his entire time here fighting an uphill battle to improve the defense. Instead of fighting anymore he went to LSU and won one with Lester instead. Good for him!

[SoonerKnight]

No more OU staff changes: Stoops said that other than Sumlin and Spavital leaving for Houston, he expects there to be no other coaching changes.

"No, I don't believe there will be anymore,” Stoops said. "I believe they will be the only changes.”

BV here to stay!!

[MamaMia]

We bitched when Bo Pelini was here, how in the world can he do that well at LSU? I mean the athletes can't be that much better than OU. Someone please explain this to me. Please.
Maybe Mr. Pelinis hands were tied? http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/think.gif

[Crucifax Autumn]

Maybe Ohio State SUCKS??? Maybe LSU gave up big points many times this season...

[Redgiant2]

Maybe Mr. Pelinis hands were tied? http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/think.gif

Logical clearheaded thinking will not be tolerated! :D There are no problems here! Move along, move along...

[Redgiant2]

Maybe Ohio State SUCKS??? Maybe LSU gave up big points many times this season...
Maybe Bo just won a NC while OU had their defensive *** handed to them for the umpteenth time.

[goingoneight]

Something has changed.

Fans know it, coaches know it… and most certainly critics notice it. The Oklahoma football team that took the field three days into 2001 was a team on a mission, a team out for respect.

Of course Bob Stoops said something to the extent of “the history of Oklahoma is about winning championships, we already had six, now we have seven National Championships!” Of course at the time it sounded (and looked) like that was to be expected for years to come. With outstanding recruiting, finesse offense and impenetrable defense, Oklahoma was revived from nearly an entire decade of mediocrity. These same Oklahoma critics venture to say less than mediocrity, winning just 12 games under the previous head coach (who stayed for three years). No, the young, fiery defensive-minded coach landed not only one of the greatest seasons in college football history, not only a conference crown, but the college game’s highest honor.
I’d love to say fast-forward to today, but that wouldn’t exactly be fun, now would it?

The Oklahoma coaching staff for the most part remained intact, while losing a few All-Americans to start the 2001 season. Without the “one man show” Heupel (as Texas would call it… how ironic?), they followed up the magical title run with an eleven-win season and a Cotton Bowl “Championship.”

“Championship.” Cotton Bowl “Championship.” There are many programs across the country, I would probably say over a hundred who would be thrilled by season’s finish if they are 11-3, Cotton Bowl “Champions” on January 1st, 2009. Everyone says they compete for “championships,” but Oklahoma is different, right? Too different if you’ve seen the masses of fans from traditional powerhouse football programs running for the bridges in the face of an unheard of eleven-win season, just because they lost a game or two.

Nearly every summer, you can expect one Oklahoma college football team to at least have their stamp on the face of college football’s top 25 preseason magazines. Hint: their coach isn’t 40 years old and their mascot isn’t a yellow tornado. Yes, Oklahoma is always, and always will be one of the most talented rosters in college football under Bob Stoops. He’s a great coach, he proves it year in, year out.

We’re not here to sit and pat Coach Stoops on the back. We’re not here to “bedowngrade” him either. We’re simply here to tell it like it is. What we say is what we see. That’s not Oklahoma football, that’s Oklahoma people. We pride ourselves in telling it like it is. Here’s what we see… there’s a distinct difference between Bob Stoops “The Hunter,” and Bob Stoops “The Hunted.”

Before you call a shrink for Coach Stoops, it’s not a split personality disorder. What we saw and came to expect from Bob Stoops on January 3, 2001 was the highest standard you can hold a man to in his profession. Firing assistants is not the answer when you’re consistently ripping off double-digit winning seasons and beating your rivals until they cry on national television.

Oklahoma fans wanted former Offensive Coordinator, Mark Mangino gone. What has he done besides win a BCS Bowl in one of the toughest places in all of football to even win a game? So you drop a few losses and the answer is to axing guys who are out there landing guys like… oh, I don’t know Adrian Peterson, Tommie Harris, Mark Clayton among others?

Bob Stoops “The Hunter” is a guy who you don’t want to irritate. Just as soon as you feel it’s necessary to put him or his players down, in any way… you can expect things like the 2001 Orange Bowl, five-year losing streaks in the Cotton Bowl, a 77-0 thumping in Norman that could have easily been over the century mark, 52-9 ****** blowouts, lop-sided BIG 12 Championship scores and nothing more than “I told you so” from the man responsible, Bob Stoops “The Hunter.”

On the other hand, you have Bob Stoops “The Hunted.” You can only hope to find this guy with his arms crossed shaking his head on the sidelines of a BCS game if you’re playing Oklahoma. This guy can throw a headset over a mountain and make a mid-major look like a National Champion. With respect to LSU, USC, Boise State and now West Virginia… it’s pretty clear which Bob Stoops was on the sideline in these respective BCS games.

Oklahoma fans want to see Bob “The Hunter” in action; the guy who is high-fives and hugs. The guy who gets in the faces of crooked officials, zooms in on the field with his hands on his knees as if he’s trying to read the names on the jerseys. Oklahoma fans want to see the guy who is on a mission to win and will stops at nothing within reason on the field to do so.

Did Bob Stoops muff a punt inside the Oklahoma 10-yard line against USC or was that Mark Bradley? Did Brent Venables throw an interception returned for a score against Boise State or was that heroic figure quarterback Paul Thompson? Did Bo Pellini drop a game-tying TD pass in the end zone or was that All-American Mark Clayton?

There’s a difference, alright. The coaching staff and team that is challenged or wants something is the coaching staff that usually gets it. In the wide world of sports, we see the greatest of streaks and the most heart-wrenching of streaks as fans that associate themselves with a team. Did anyone see Mack Brown keeping his job after 2003 when he lost his fourth-consecutive Red River Shootout in a Red River Blowout? How about a year later after his 12-1 team’s only loss was in yet another Red River disappointment, the infamous Red River Shutout? Ridiculed for 22 years as the guy who couldn’t get it done, he took the VY Express to end his Cotton Bowl streak and win the college game’s highest honor. From a goat to a hero, Mack Brown’s resume was punctuated with that season and he’s not just a guy who wins a bunch of games, but a guy who is set in stone until he decides otherwise in Austin.

But don’t let the Brown-Stoops comparison fool you, one coach continues to win conference titles and make the BCS games, one makes co-champ rings and slogans like “not our standard” in regards to what the Holiday Bowl means to him.

After four BCS losses, it’s clear that no longer is this a coincidence, it’s a problem. Changes must be made, but calling for the heads of guys like Mark Mangino and Bo Pelini is not the answer. Kick them out and what do you say when they are winning BCS bowls while you’re not? Run Stoops out of town and be prepared for another wonderful run of maybe going to a bowl game.

Bud Wilkinson can’t beat his understudy, Darrell Royal in Dallas. Tom Osborne can’t beat Barry Switzer or win it all, Oklahoma can’t win it all because of Miami, USC is unbeatable, Mack Brown can’t win in Dallas, Bob Stoops can’t win a bowl game and the Boston Red Sox are cursed. See a pattern here? Successful coaches are not doomed to big stage failure; and great success… “Sooner Magic” as we call it, doesn’t last forever. It’s sporadic. So don’t let ESPN fool you, nobody has legitimate National Championships that span further than eight or nine. They don’t come easily. Great as your proud tradition is, you only have seven for a reason. Maybe next time around you won’t be so touchy about “only” making the Fiesta Bowl or “only” winning the BIG 12 Championship (back-to-back, once with a freshmen quarterback). Maybe next time you’ll be excited for the OU-Rutgers Fiesta Bowl and maybe the players will be, too. Maybe. That’s sports… and in the words of James Garner and Bob Stoops, “THAT’S OKLAHOMA FOOTBALL.”


;)

[Redgiant2]

Rose colored glasses are marvelous aren't they?? This team will continue its assault on mediocrity as long as Vulnerables remains.

[MamaMia]

Maybe Ohio State SUCKS??? Maybe LSU gave up big points many times this season...
Maybe if we would have sucked like that the other day, we might have won. :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

You probably have a point there!

But I still contend that tOSU didn't belong in the game after their weak schedule this year...I know it was ranked high, but look at it now...and a team like LSU that was so close to losing so many games and lost 2 of them kicking the crap out of them proves it.

[dabien]

Bo Pelini was a hell of a coach, wasn't he from Northwestern? Les Miles hired him for a reason, he knew how good he was. I never scolded him ever, it was mostly BV's fault. BV knows how to coach run defense but he just is terrible with pass defense!
fire him now please, fire brent Venables, venables please leave the state of oklahoma! his schemes do not work!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Why fire him? Based on what you said we just need a co-coordinator who kicks *** in pass defense.

[dabien]

Why fire him? Based on what you said we just need a co-coordinator who kicks *** in pass defense.

Yes I would agree to have that too... but can we have 3? we have BJW already.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Not sure of the rules and the budget, but we need at least one person who can coach pass defense and one person who can coach run defense and we need to be sure they are equal in "power".

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i hate to bring facts into this discussion, but pelini was the man behind us moving from a 4-2-5 to the 4-3 after mike left. he ran it at nebraska and suggested to a linebacker coach who went whole hog after it. at the time it made sense with the personnel we had on campus - dan cody, rufus alexander, clint ingram - because all of our talent was in our linebacker corps and we were paper thin at safety (thank you brodney pool). one other interesting item of note, pelini has never coached a player he recruited to his defense. he's like the terry bowden of DCs...

personally, i think our problem lies more in the alignees than in the alignment. over the last several years we have demonstrated an absolute inability to find good defensive college football players. oh, we can find the NFL ready ones, and we can find the average ones, but we can't find the guys who are just old fashioned not going to make it to the NFL, blue collar, glue the team together players.

our team is kind of like the fab 5 was way back when. they have the talent to beat anyone but they also have the mental makeup to lose to anyone. when cornered, they can go on a run, but the moment they think their clear, they let up and drop one they shouldn't. or bomar the ball against oregon.

[misplaced_sooner]

Should Stoops fire Vunerables or BJW? I don't know for sure, but I think the defensive side of the ball needs to be put on notice to improve next season or submit your resignation. I've always been on the "fire vunerables band wagon" but I really just want to see a defense teams are afraid of.

Andrew

[csbst2]

Originally Posted by Ground_Attack
That attitude is what really chaps me. If you aren't playing for the title, who cares? What an Aggy attitude.

Who said who cares? Yea I care, but guess what, sometimes the better team doesn't always win. I am not saying that I don't care, but people are going nuts over four loses? Yea we should win the bowl game, but guess what, the other team comes to win too. Thats why they actually play the game. Am i disappointed if we lose, you bet, but I am not going to sit here and say well this coach sucks, and the players didn't play, the fact is they didn't play well enough to win the game. GET OVER IT. The coaches will never say it but the amout of starters they were missing had an effect. THATS WHY THEY ARE STARTERS, they are better than their backups.

[sanantoniosooner]

Rose colored glasses are marvelous aren't they?? This team will continue its assault on mediocrity as long as Vulnerables remains.
If you want to make a point, using words like "mediocrity" will get your point ignored as quickly as anything. You can say a lot of things about OU but it would take an idiot to call what they've accomplished "mediocrity".

Yeah, they've fallen short of the mark. And things need to change. But mediocrity hasn't been on campus since Bob was hired.

[zeke]

Fire Venables and the whole team shows up to play. Offensive players will stop jumping offside and line up correctly and block without holding. We will mix the play calling up and not run the ball up the gut when we are way behind and needing points. We wont go for 2 or muff onside kicks.
All of the players will stay healthy, they will study and pass all of their classes and be eligible to play.
Fire venables and nobody will feel the need to steal something.
Fire Venables and the team will feel motivated to play lights out even when they have been told for weeks that they are better than the opposition.
If Venables had been gone Jason White would have been healthy when we lost to LSU. If only Stoops would have fired him long ago we wouldn't drop punts and kick offs and let the other team recover.
If Brent Venables had been somewhere else when we played Oregon the refs would have gotten it right.

GOOD GRIEF

If Venables were gone we will be set to win every game because its ALL his fault.

NOBODY LIKES THE WAY THIS ENDED. I HAVE ENOUGH CONFIDENCE IN BOB STOOPS TO BELIEVE THAT HE REALIZES CHANGES HAVE TO BE MADE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. AND HOW TO GET THE WHOLE TEAM UP EMOTIONALY TO PLAY EVERY GAME. VENABLES, STOOPS, BJW, WILSON, PATTON (OFFENSIVE LINE COACH WHO NEEDS TO TEACH HOW NOT TO HOLD, LINE UP CORRECTLY AND NOT JUMP OFF SIDE) ALL OF THESE GUYS HAD A HAND IN HOW OU PREPAIRED FOR THIS GAME THEY ALL FAILED.

Firing Venables would be a mistake. The whole coaching staff, starting with BS, needs a major tune up when it comes to getting them ready to play emotionally. The talent on the field and on the sidelines is there. Look at the OSU and Missouri games. If we show up like that emotionally at every game this year and we would have been playing last night in the National Championship Game.

[sooneron]

If you want to make a point, using words like "mediocrity" will get your point ignored as quickly as anything. You can say a lot of things about OU but it would take an idiot to call what they've accomplished "mediocrity".

Yeah, they've fallen short of the mark. And things need to change. But mediocrity hasn't been on campus since Bob was hired.
Here! Here!!:pop:

[sooneron]

i hate to bring facts into this discussion, but pelini was the man behind us moving from a 4-2-5 to the 4-3 after mike left. he ran it at nebraska and suggested to a linebacker coach who went whole hog after it. at the time it made sense with the personnel we had on campus - dan cody, rufus alexander, clint ingram - because all of our talent was in our linebacker corps and we were paper thin at safety (thank you brodney pool). one other interesting item of note, pelini has never coached a player he recruited to his defense. he's like the terry bowden of DCs...

personally, i think our problem lies more in the alignees than in the alignment. over the last several years we have demonstrated an absolute inability to find good defensive college football players. oh, we can find the NFL ready ones, and we can find the average ones, but we can't find the guys who are just old fashioned not going to make it to the NFL, blue collar, glue the team together players.

our team is kind of like the fab 5 was way back when. they have the talent to beat anyone but they also have the mental makeup to lose to anyone. when cornered, they can go on a run, but the moment they think their clear, they let up and drop one they shouldn't. or bomar the ball against oregon.
Personnel have long been a problem for us. Why were we starting two converted offensive players in the D backfield? That speaks volumes. I would like to see the offensive rankings of teams that we faced in 01 as opposed to this year. Six of the teams we played are in the top 20 for total offense this year. Actually, you could say seven since we played Mizz twice.
Edit: I just located it, we played one offense ranked in the top 20 in 01-
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2001&div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotoff&site=org

3 top 20 in 2000-
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2001&div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotoff&site=org

1 in 2002 - osu was close at no. 21-
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2002&div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotoff&site=org

3 in 2003-
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2003&div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotoff&site=org

4 in 2004-
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2004&div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotoff&site=org

3 in 2005
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2005&div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotoff&site=org

6 in 2006
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2006&div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotoff&site=org

I would like to point out that I have been befuddled by our defensive schemes at times this year. This is not some way of refuting the BV haters. I do think BJW should be on the hot seat. We need a true DB coach and someone that knows how to confuse the opposing QB.

[Theskipster]

I have seen Brent be a really good defensive coach this season. When he wants to, he can coach and I understand why Bob wants to keep him around. But for the last two years his bowl game preparations have absolutely sucked.

How did Brent not watch tape showing how teams stopped WVU? How did Brent not know that Pat White can scramble, and just isn't that good throwing the ball?

And the entire idea of running a normal nickel defense against this team really upset me. I watched WVU play quite a bit this year and I noticed that less talented teams really gave WVU trouble when they stacked the box and made Pat White throw. So even if Pat White has his best passing performance of his entire career because we sold out to stop him and he throws three touchdowns we probably still win.

I watch USF and Pitt put 9 to 11 guys in the box almost every single play this year against WVU and they were able to almost completely shut down Pat White and crew even before he was injured. And their defensive schemes were all about contain. They didn't overload the middle and leave the edges exposed. They didn't heavily rush the edges with no more than two linebackers to defend the middle of the field.

I'm still really ****ed off from seeing a defensive tackle run a stunt behind the other DT on a four man rush on 3rd and 9 while everyone else dropped back in deep coverage. What did Venables expect to happen when you give Pat White a huge natural opening on one side of the field with no one between him and the first down?

Did Venables even know who was the QB for WVU or how he plays?

Did Venables not know that Pat White has NEVER thrown for more than 2 touchdowns in a single game in his 3 years on the field?

And because we came out with such a bad scheme the defensive players abandoned their discipline to try and compensate for the bad game plan. Which of course made the whole thing fall apart for the defense. As an example, do you think DJ Wolfe completely abandons his coverage if he believes the defense is in place to stop the run? I don't.

Next year, Stoops needs to make sure that Brent is doing a lot more to prepare for the bowl game.

[sanantoniosooner]

I'm sorry, but with a MONTH to prepare, there is no reason to lay all of this on BV.

Are you telling me that defensive guro Bob just leaves it all up to BV for an entire month and tends to........whatever? With a full month to prepare, Bob should be right in the big fat middle of the OC, DC, and special teams gameplans. The buck stops at Bob on this one. He's got PLENTY of time to shore up any weaknesses that he sees in BV's gameplan.

[jduggle]

I totally agree, but can someone explain to me why we continually play zone defensive schemes when it has been proven time and time again that the better offensive teams rip it apart? By virtue of the zone defensive schemes, is Stoops really saying he has no confidence in our players to cover man to man? One of the things Pellini showed us last night is that he was so confident he had the best athletes on the field, he played a lot of man to man coverage. I don't understand why we continue to play soft zone coverages and then are surprised our secondary does not play well against strong passing teams.

[Breadburner]

i hate to bring facts into this discussion, but pelini was the man behind us moving from a 4-2-5 to the 4-3 after mike left. he ran it at nebraska and suggested to a linebacker coach who went whole hog after it. at the time it made sense with the personnel we had on campus - dan cody, rufus alexander, clint ingram - because all of our talent was in our linebacker corps and we were paper thin at safety (thank you brodney pool). one other interesting item of note, pelini has never coached a player he recruited to his defense. he's like the terry bowden of DCs...

personally, i think our problem lies more in the alignees than in the alignment. over the last several years we have demonstrated an absolute inability to find good defensive college football players. oh, we can find the NFL ready ones, and we can find the average ones, but we can't find the guys who are just old fashioned not going to make it to the NFL, blue collar, glue the team together players.

our team is kind of like the fab 5 was way back when. they have the talent to beat anyone but they also have the mental makeup to lose to anyone. when cornered, they can go on a run, but the moment they think their clear, they let up and drop one they shouldn't. or bomar the ball against oregon.


I have to totally agree with the last two paragraphs.....Combine that with a bad scheme and what you end up with is WVU winning the Fiesta......

[Theskipster]

The soft zone coverage you frequently saw was only a very small reason for not always dominating on pass defense this year.

[usmc-sooner]

If Bo had been our DC we'd be looking for a new one today.

[jduggle]

My question is simply why don't we ever seen OU play man coverage? Does Stoops have a philosophical problem with man to man defense?

[usmc-sooner]

My question is simply why don't we ever seen OU play man coverage? Does Stoops have a philosophical problem with man to man defense?

I've seen them run some man. Against WVA it was probably to help the new corner and safety.

In the regular season our players probably weren't very well suited for man, Reggie is the only one I'd feel good about locking up on one player and saying shut him down.

[jduggle]

I know I saw Venables blitz White on a couple of 3rd and longs while playing zone only to watch White run right by the blitzer. I just can't understand what if any game plan Venables had that was specifically tailored for WVU. It could have been any team out there....we're OU....we play zone in one form or another...and after the game is over....we excuse loss as we were outcoached. Is it that we were outcoached...or our coaches are just not qualified?

[Theskipster]

So you wanted to see mostly man coverage against Pat White so the Sooner defensive backs could be ran out of position every play?

Our coaches are qualified but didn't take this game seriously enough.

Your frothing at playing zone in this game is misplaced anger.

If you are mad about playing mostly zone against the good passing teams during the season, you are wrong there too.

[jduggle]

OK...agreed...there's a little venting going on here...I'm just curious I guess.

What I wanted was to see was a defense that at least offered a challenge to WVU. I just can't buy that given OU's defensive performance over the past few years that the coaches don't have some form of responsibility above player motivation.

[The_Red_Patriot]

Not at all - he had a bad games - but his defense was much more consistent and much less likely to give up 30-40 points in a game


Have you watched Arizona?

Its not like they are shutting the Pac 10 down

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

And the entire idea of running a normal nickel defense against this team really upset me. I watched WVU play quite a bit this year and I noticed that less talented teams really gave WVU trouble when they stacked the box and made Pat White throw. So even if Pat White has his best passing performance of his entire career because we sold out to stop him and he throws three touchdowns we probably still win.

most of the long runs came when we were in a 4-3. there is a certain linebacker that they ran at over and over. i was reviewing the plays and stopped because they were averaging 10+ yards a play while he was in the game.

i'm going to say this again, our linebacker corps was the worst i've ever seen at OU. its been pretty much a known that venables can't evaluate inside linebackers out of high school. he's always had to rely on jucos to fill that role. with reed having his issues, he was forced to move lofton to the middle and then fill in the other 2 positions with guys that aren't up to OU standards.


I totally agree, but can someone explain to me why we continually play zone defensive schemes when it has been proven time and time again that the better offensive teams rip it apart? By virtue of the zone defensive schemes, is Stoops really saying he has no confidence in our players to cover man to man? One of the things Pellini showed us last night is that he was so confident he had the best athletes on the field, he played a lot of man to man coverage. I don't understand why we continue to play soft zone coverages and then are surprised our secondary does not play well against strong passing teams.

do we really have to go over this again? there isn't enough practice time in college football to put in more than one scheme. lsu play man because a) they have the athletes year in and year out and b) that's what the SEC does. its called the man press and guess who came up with it? that's right bob stoops. it works great in the SEC because everyone runs traditional offenses outside of spurrier. oh wait, OU and ohio state do too. wow, talk about a buzzsaw. however, you can't run the man press in the big 12 because every team we face is a spread team. you try running man against tech and you end up with those 60 something shellackings nebraska got...

[jduggle]

Talk about a team that doesn't have the team speed to play man ... that's Nebraska.

Bottom line...are you suggesting we just don't have the players on defense?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

we didn't have the linebackers to have a dominant zone defense this year. and to be honest, barring a resurgance from mike reed or jucos coming in, i don't see this changing next year. the worst part is they don't play smart. everyone is complaining about blitzing a running team, but we used to blitz vince young pretty successfully. against white, we continually overran our rushing lane. when WVU picked up the blitz instead of playing it safe, they tried to go the way the OTs wanted them to go (outside and up the field), giving huge gaping lanes to run in.

our secondary, for the most part, was pretty good especially after reggie came out of his funk mid season. there weren't a ton of over the top plays unless teams had established the run.

as for everyone wanting to change defenses - we routinely don't have the corners to play man to man. our coaching staff has been infatuated with the tall corner since they've been here. instead of getting the guy 1 inch shorter that has the hips and brain to play corner they will go after the taller guy who is ends up being a safety. you also have to consider that a switch to man to man at this point would be a multiple year transition because you have to have the players play it. you have to have physical, smart corners who have the confidence to be left on an island and still be able to help in run support. you also have to have great man to man linebackers as how we got eaten alive in 99 was they would go empty backs by motioning the running back out as a receiver forcing our linebackers into space. they could then go QB draw or screen to the running back or whatever. we were suffering from huge numbers issues as we never had enough players at the point of attack.

[usmc-sooner]

we didn't have the linebackers to have a dominant zone defense this year. and to be honest, barring a resurgance from mike reed or jucos coming in, i don't see this changing next year. the worst part is they don't play smart. everyone is complaining about blitzing a running team, but we used to blitz vince young pretty successfully. against white, we continually overran our rushing lane. when WVU picked up the blitz instead of playing it safe, they tried to go the way the OTs wanted them to go (outside and up the field), giving huge gaping lanes to run in.

our secondary, for the most part, was pretty good especially after reggie came out of his funk mid season. there weren't a ton of over the top plays unless teams had established the run.

as for everyone wanting to change defenses - we routinely don't have the corners to play man to man. our coaching staff has been infatuated with the tall corner since they've been here. instead of getting the guy 1 inch shorter that has the hips and brain to play corner they will go after the taller guy who is ends up being a safety. you also have to consider that a switch to man to man at this point would be a multiple year transition because you have to have the players play it. you have to have physical, smart corners who have the confidence to be left on an island and still be able to help in run support. you also have to have great man to man linebackers as how we got eaten alive in 99 was they would go empty backs by motioning the running back out as a receiver forcing our linebackers into space. they could then go QB draw or screen to the running back or whatever. we were suffering from huge numbers issues as we never had enough players at the point of attack.

1/3rd of our linebacking corps were all Americans :D

statistically speaking that was the strength of our team.





joking

[cvsooner]

most of the long runs came when we were in a 4-3. there is a certain linebacker that they ran at over and over. i was reviewing the plays and stopped because they were averaging 10+ yards a play while he was in the game.

i'm going to say this again, our linebacker corps was the worst i've ever seen at OU. its been pretty much a known that venables can't evaluate inside linebackers out of high school. he's always had to rely on jucos to fill that role. with reed having his issues, he was forced to move lofton to the middle and then fill in the other 2 positions with guys that aren't up to OU standards.


I don't know if you mean Baker or Reynolds, but they were both getting pretty much in the wrong spots, all night. It was sad to see it happen over and over, and after it happens a certain number of times it's clear there's a misunderstanding on the part of the player as to what's being asked of him, and how to do it. I agree with you that the problem has more to do with personnel and less with the schemes. The only way we were going to win that game, the way our defense was allowing itself to get whipped, was to come out like gangbusters on offense and just keep answering. We couldn't and finally just gave up. I think Stoops, Wilson and Venables finally just threw in the towel and Stewart agreed not to run it up even worse.

Ultimately there's a failure on the part of the coaches who recruited and the coaches who worked with the players, but part of it is the player, too. How many times do you have to be told/shown how to hold your ground and fill the rushing lanes before you get it? It's not like it was the first game. For crying out loud, it's the fourteenth game of the season.

[rubyspirit]

Those who complain about Brent doesn't understand the game of football. They just want to blame someone.

We need Bob to let Kevin do more creative offensive plays. Making a 2-point conversion would be a start!

[stoopified]

He's NOT!!!!???

http://www.bigfanboy.com/pages/reviews/filmreviews/2006/apocalypto/apocalypto-temple.jpg
Kill the non believers.Maybe the blood will appease the football gods and give Bob back his mojo.

[misplaced_sooner]

Those who complain about Brent doesn't understand the game of football. They just want to blame someone.

We need Bob to let Kevin do more creative offensive plays. Making a 2-point conversion would be a start!

It doesn't take a genius to understand that giving up 55, 43, and 48 points in the last 3 BCS games is a defensive problem. Not to mention, we gave up 17 or more points in 9 games this season.... OUs last shutout was middle tennesee on Sept 23, 2006. The last shutout over a quality opponent was Texas in 2004(12-0). The defense certainly needs to be addressed.

I hope Bob and the staff can figure it out...

Andrew

[hack]

Maybe Ohio State SUCKS???


*BING* *BING* *BING*

we have a winnah!

[Eielson]

We bitched when Bo Pelini was here, how in the world can he do that well at LSU? I mean the athletes can't be that much better than OU. Someone please explain this to me. Please.

Honestly, I could've won 10 games with LSU's players. Miles looked like a little kid playing madden half the time this year. The players bailed him out most of the time. They had one heck of a defense roster, they did have their 50 point Arkansas game though that would've had us all ticked off at him.

I don't see what the real problem with Venables is. Our defense shut down Missouri better than anybody did all year and if it weren't for a late, meaningless touchdown against Missouri, we wouldn't have allowed 30 points in a single game until our bowl game. Yeah, we stunk it up in the bowl game, but it didn't really look like coaching to me. They ran the ball down our throats, if they passed it, things would be different. The coaches can't go out there and make the tackles for you.

[hink4769]

Honestly, I could've won 10 games with LSU's players.
I think you might be getting a little ahead of yourself there bud. There are plenty of talented teams out there that are ruined by incompetent coaching. Look at the Ron Zook's Florida teams. Look at recent Florida St. teams. I know everybody here hates Miles, and he did get dealt a nice hand with Saban's players, but don't act like just anybody could have come in and won a NC with these guys. He deserves some credit.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

We have played like **** in bowls since the democrats were voted back in to congress.


Blame them.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

I think you might be getting a little ahead of yourself there bud. There are plenty of talented teams out there that are ruined by incompetent coaching. Look at the Ron Zook's Florida teams. Look at recent Florida St. teams. I know everybody here hates Miles, and he did get dealt a nice hand with Saban's players, but don't act like just anybody could have come in and won a NC with these guys. He deserves some credit.


Didn't Zook go 9-3 when he was fired? He went 9-3 this year at Illinois too.

[MojoRisen]

We averaged 48.6 points per gamge against BCS caliber teams - no chance in hell we win shootouts. We have to be even or with the lead in the 4th quarter to start to dominate teams and make them quit.

Something needs to be done on Defense- if it is that hard. Maybe we should figure out what Pitt was doing at WVU and emulate that a bit. Certainly we were no better than UCON on Defense if you allow WVU to run their offense.

No complaints- just try not and embarress us anymore in big games. Seriously my feeling on it is- anticipate getting your *** kicked in the BCS game but enjoy conference play.

[hink4769]

Didn't Zook go 9-3 when he was fired? He went 9-3 this year at Illinois too.
The Ron Zook Florida Years
2002 8-5
2003 8-5
2004 7-5

[rhombic21]

Hey, how did Bo's defense do against Arkansas? Against Kentucky?

Let's be real, a big part of why LSU looked so great on defense the other night was because Ohio State was not nearly as explosive offensively as many of the other top teams around the country. And they did still give up 24 points. Hardly dominating on defense.

I agree about our LB play. It has been terrible all year, particularly at OLB. We ended up missing Rufus way more than I thought we would. That reminds me, can anybody tell me why Curtis Lofton wasn't starting last year over Latimer? Can somebody explain to me why DeMario Pleasant never saw the field in his career?

[texas bandman]

We have played like **** in bowls since the democrats were voted back in to congress.


Blame them.

Actually, the Democrats only regained the Congress in Novemeber 2006 So, you have to blame the Republicans for 2 of the 4.

Dang, Bushies! :D

[Scott D]

We averaged 48.6 points per gamge against BCS caliber teams - no chance in hell we win shootouts. We have to be even or with the lead in the 4th quarter to start to dominate teams and make them quit.

Something needs to be done on Defense- if it is that hard. Maybe we should figure out what Pitt was doing at WVU and emulate that a bit. Certainly we were no better than UCON on Defense if you allow WVU to run their offense.

No complaints- just try not and embarress us anymore in big games. Seriously my feeling on it is- anticipate getting your *** kicked in the BCS game but enjoy conference play.

Pitt got solid play from their linebackers, and their defensive line went more for disruption than trying to race each other into the backfield.

If Pitt ever gets a QB they could become a dangerous team for a Big East team.

[SoonerBBall]

Pitt got solid play from their linebackers, and their defensive line went more for disruption than trying to race each other into the backfield.

If Pitt ever gets a QB they could become a dangerous team for a Big East team.

Also, Pat White was injured. Wasn't Slaton too?

[PLaw]

Look, I know it sucks that we lost, but thats life.

uhhh, 55, 43, and 48 is not life at OU. It maybe at places like Rice, Iowa State, Prarie View, New Mexico State, and Vanderbilt. But it is not life at OU.

BOOMER

[OU_Sooners75]

55-19
43-42 OT (helluva Game)
48-28

Yes we have won 2 straight Big 12 titles. We have won 3 with BV as our DC. But what does it say to the world when we can win Big 12 Championships only to lose to teams we shouldn't in BCS Bowl games?

You cannot honestly tell me that West Virginia was 20 points better than OU this season. You cannot tell me Boise State was better. You can probably make an argument for usuck.

I am not saying that the solution is to fire BV, but I think it is time for him to change his defensive philosophy.

But that is just my $0.02.

[Scott D]

Also, Pat White was injured. Wasn't Slaton too?

White was injured trying to make plays by getting Pitt to play undisciplined. Slaton's so injury prone that he makes the speculation about AD being injury prone look as bad as Notre Dame was this year.

[goingoneight]

Not at all - he had a bad games - but his defense was much more consistent and much less likely to give up 30-40 points in a game

Tell me, 2001 Sooner D man...

I'm suspending Tommie Harris for a game, Roy Williams is going to sit this one out because of his grades and Derrick Strait is going to be out with an injury. Teddy Lehman is going to play, but he's recovering from an injury also and is getting over the flu.

How great is your defense now, Mr. Stoops? Oh, that's right... we didn't play for a BIG 12 Championship, OR a BCS bowl that year, did we? We played Arkansas and bored a Cotton Bowl full of Sooner and Hog fans.

[Jello Biafra]

maybe the fat fugger in section 40 back in 2004 and redgiant and his ilk have something in common......they saw it coming and if i listened to it then, maybe we wouldn't be in this predicament right now.....hmmmmm....



I have something i would like to share with my bretheren in section 40.......


I have been a season ticket holder for 6 years now and have had enough with this section. the longer the home win streak goes and the harder it is to get seats, the dumber the fans in my general AO get. im sick of you anal probes and im either going to find out where you live and fire bomb your property and/or start commiting random acts of violence upon your general person. two seasons ago it was starting to become unbearable but i lived with it and the season ended soon enough with out an incident. last year, a new crowd moved in and became fairly adept at heckling without being annoying. (you see, heckling the opposing fans and team are something completely opposite of TRYING to be funny and/or heckling your own team/ players.) and they learned quickly at what they should and should not be saying in front of our fanatics in this area. so, they lived to see another season.

now, we have this group of absolute weakstick dumb****s that think EVERYTHING needs a comment. from opening kickoff to the final gun, they feel like they are providing a service by doing their best impression of a third rate cable stations color commentation of the game and filling everyone in, within ear shot, of the complete background and the vital stats along the players sexual exploits most of the info is wrong by the way but hey what the hell? why not let everyone know how big of a dumbass you are. case in point, CO goes down after that devastating blindside block. what (i am sure is) one of the missing beverly hillbillies yells "cmon!!! hes not bleeding. scrape him up and lets commence this *** whoopin!" one of his freinds asks "who is it?" he replies " i don't know. sum scrub im sure" rofl i turned around and said "some scrub? I thought you knew everything about this team?"

Man! is it hot in here or is it just me?


first and foremost......... to larry the cable guy impersonator. Shut the F*ck UP!!!!!

IF you mention that venables couldn't call plays on your little borther's football coaching staff one more time, im kicking your *** and throwing you over the wall and to the ramp below. Im (no bull****) 6'5" and 290 trust me when i say i can do it.

IF you scream, at the top of your lungs "get er done" one more time in my ear, Im going to turn around and punch you in your labia and THEN im gonna throw you over the wall and to the ramp below. see above stats.


IF you say that "trey dicarlo can't kick a field goal to save his mother's life" one more time, im going to hold you down and let the deaf guy in front of me punch you in the spleen and THEN im going to throw you over the wall and to the ramp below. see my stats above and his are about 6'0 200 but a little hard of hearing see: sign language.

IF you tell your fat *** girlfreind "im gonna kick this guys *** if he hits me in the head one more time" talking about the 12 year old behind you, im gonna blind fold you, duck tape your arms behind your back and then let his mother beat you about the head and shoulders and HELP her throw you over the wall to the ramp below. see: my stats above and her stats are ummm my best guess is 34-24-34 vurrry nice

ok. nuff of that.


to the (self proclaimed) army ranger, if you don't stop asking "where's everyone going? why are the popping smoke?" 6 times a game, and then explaining to EVERYONE that "popping smoke is an army term for Unassing an AO" Im going to take my sister to the NEXT game and have her beat you like you stole something in front of god and everybody.


to the good looking little heiffer siting behind me, If you tell just one more person in our area that you are an osu fan but you come to our games because of your best freind being on the pom-pon squad and she brings you down to the field at half time, me, you and your GF are going to my 1976 goodtimes van complete with shag carpeting and velour ceiling after the game . i have a feeling i may need a sock or tape or something because something tells me you like to talk ALOT while giving up the pootie.


to the chick that is sitting 5 seats from the OTHER end of the bench but insists on rubbing her old saggy boobies on me and about 15 other people walking through us during play, I know you only have one white tank top and probably only one black bra but im gonna dump my entire bottle of water on you the next time i miss a touchdown run because you feel the need for nachos and a square.


that's all noone has told me to sit down this year so ive had no reason to tell them to come down and make me ill keep you informed.

[effay]

Venables has had his struggles (playing Nic sparingly against a zone-read team anyone?), but I'd like to see him stay.

On the other hand, I've been calling for years to sever the Northwestern tie. There's no firepower in Wilson's offense and Patton has 700+ pounds of man on the left side blocking like 600. I think we need to spread it out again and get closer to the offense that won us an NC.

[effay]

My knock on BV though:

He was obviously unprepared for the game...we went from zone to man to zone to man to zone, etc...he just didn't know what to do...the LBs who kept running in and out were clearly confused...for some insane reason he only played Nic sparingly against a running team...not pulling Dom for Jackson after he gave up on every running play to his side...he had a MONTH to prepare for this team and they beat us doing the same stuff they always do.

[MojoRisen]

Let's go Spread - we don't have AD anymore and all of our RB's can catch.

Defense - we ain't getting rid of BV so let's plan on strike first and ofton and out score folks.

I hope he makes the adjustments- clearly he is capable of that but I feel he is stuborn if anything.

[Theskipster]

There's no firepower in Wilson's offense

Oklahoma is the 5th highest scoring offense in the nation
Oklahoma is the 7th highest in total yards.

Are you really saying that Wilson's offense sucks?

[effay]

Are you really saying that Wilson's offense sucks?

Do you really think that's the best we can do?

Do you really think we used Kelly enough?
Do you really think we used Gresham enough?
Do you really think the largest line in the NCAA blocks like it?
Do you really think we used Murray to his full potential?
Do you really think Manuel Johnson deserves less than 40 catches per season?

We have so much unused talent it's sickening!

[JLEW1818]

How bout instead of getting to the BCS city a week early we treat it like a normal game and get there 1-2 days early. Yes the players need to have fun, but seriously the focus just does not seem there in the defense. Is this such a bad idea?

[hink4769]

Do you really think that's the best we can do?

Do you really think we used Kelly enough?
Do you really think we used Gresham enough?
Do you really think the largest line in the NCAA blocks like it?
Do you really think we used Murray to his full potential?
Do you really think Manuel Johnson deserves less than 40 catches per season?

We have so much unused talent it's sickening!
To answer your Kelly, Gresham and Johnson questions, there are only so many plays to go around. Gresham caught 11 TD's so I would hardly say he was underused. The upper limit to the number of catches Johnson can get is rather low since he is the third option and isn't on the field as much as Iggy and Kelly. When you have alot of playmakers, its inevidible to think that some aren't used to their full potential, but the truth is there are only so many plays to make.

[BoulderSooner79]

Do you really think that's the best we can do?

...
Do you really think the largest line in the NCAA blocks like it?
...


Actually, I do and I think that's a weakness. I think the line is not athletic enough to be a good run blockers because they are too slow. Shear size does help pass blocking as long as the player still has good feet. Sam generally had time to find a receiver, so the protection had to be good. But KW (or Bob) insisted on establishing the run early which does not play to our strengths and it didn't work very well. Once the D got lost a little steam from pass rushing, then the run started working, generally in the 2nd half. I'd like to the really big guys on the o-line lose 25lbs or so while keeping their strength. It should improve the run game w/o sacrificing much in the passing game.

[Theskipster]

Do you really think that's the best we can do?

Do you really think we used Kelly enough?
Do you really think we used Gresham enough?
Do you really think the largest line in the NCAA blocks like it?
Do you really think we used Murray to his full potential?
Do you really think Manuel Johnson deserves less than 40 catches per season?

We have so much unused talent it's sickening!

Barry Switzer:
By the time I became the coach in 1973, Oklahoma was football. I tell people, "I didn't create the monster. George Cross and Bud Wilkinson did." My job was to feed the monster.

One challenge in feeding a monster, of course, is keeping him satisfied. Sooners fans' expectations are amazingly high. In 1975, after we had a 37-game undefeated streak snapped by Kansas, I got a letter I'll never forget from a fan in Tulsa. "Coach, it's time to change the offense," he wrote. "You need to do something other than the wishbone, because people have caught up to what you're doing."

I wrote back, "Hey, did you happen to notice what offense the other team ran that day?" Kansas, with Nolan Cromwell, had beaten us by running the wishbone! The only difference was that we'd kept fumbling.

It's Bob Stoops's monster to feed now, and it's a whole lot of fun to watch.

[cvsooner]

How bout instead of getting to the BCS city a week early we treat it like a normal game and get there 1-2 days early. Yes the players need to have fun, but seriously the focus just does not seem there in the defense. Is this such a bad idea?

One of the problems, though, with this idea as I understand it, is you have to agree to commit to a certain amount of pre-bowl activities with the bowl hosts. That's part of the deal. It may or may not be a factor...didn't seem to bother us in Miami the first time or at the Rose Bowl. They even went to Disneyland.

I think this has more to do with the particular bunch of athletes.

Other posters have talked about the blue-collar good athletes, who aren't blue-chippers. Extrapolate that a little: our lack of success in the '90s meant we weren't getting (for the most part) the exceptional athletes. We were able to recruit good, not great athletes. The top guys were going elsewhere.

Once a national championship was reached, and we really started competing on a national level again, now you're in the running for the top guys, again. Some of them have been colossal busts, both on and off the field. I would also be quick to add there's a lack on the coaches' part of being able to impart to certain players the urgency of winning all the games, as well.

I'm sure, having been 20 years old a couple of decades ago, I might not have cared, myself, in their shoes. The players get the same goodie bags and the same trip to a nice destination, regardless of what happens in the bowl game.

The coach gets a bonus if he wins, on top of his already pretty hefty salary. The players don't get anything bigger or better if they win. It comes down to pride and knowing you've given it all even if you're not always the winner. Some players have it (AD and PT) and some don't. Some never will. It's just going to vary from year to year and team to team.

The remarkable thing is the consistency, in my eyes, of playing fairly well in the season and then not so well in four of the last five bowl games. Something's missing there. I'm guess Stoops probably figures, "C'mon, this is our 14th game. What is there to be different about?" And he's definitely competitive. It did bother me on this last game that he too seemed to be disheartened. Almost a "if you guys don't care to play your best, why should I coach?" attitude.

Maybe everybody just needs to back off and rethink this a little.

[effay]

To answer your Kelly, Gresham and Johnson questions, there are only so many plays to go around. Gresham caught 11 TD's so I would hardly say he was underused. The upper limit to the number of catches Johnson can get is rather low since he is the third option and isn't on the field as much as Iggy and Kelly. When you have alot of playmakers, its inevidible to think that some aren't used to their full potential, but the truth is there are only so many plays to make.

I agree that the coaches have done a great job with Gresham in the red zone. But, if he is so obviously good in the red zone, why can't he be that good anywhere else on the field. Forgive me, but I think 37 catches for a guy who is probably the most physically gifted TE in the country is pretty low.

Also, my main problem with how we utilize MJ is that after he proved to be our second deep threat mid-season with speedy 60+ yard catches two games in a row, he might as well have been benched. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the fastest guy on offense (although Murray sure looked fast running by Griffin), he has shown some pretty good ball skills this season and he doesn't drop and fumble like Iglesias. I just wish they would treat him like the deep threat he is at least more than twice a season.

[effay]

Actually, I do and I think that's a weakness. I think the line is not athletic enough to be a good run blockers because they are too slow. Shear size does help pass blocking as long as the player still has good feet. Sam generally had time to find a receiver, so the protection had to be good. But KW (or Bob) insisted on establishing the run early which does not play to our strengths and it didn't work very well. Once the D got lost a little steam from pass rushing, then the run started working, generally in the 2nd half. I'd like to the really big guys on the o-line lose 25lbs or so while keeping their strength. It should improve the run game w/o sacrificing much in the passing game.

Agreed. As a lover of zone blocking/athletic linemen, I wouldn't mind if we never recruited anyone ever again that was over 320. There is no doubt that Phil and Duke have big problems getting to the second level. They also suck at executing the endless pulls that Northwestern has them doing.

The problem I see though is that Phil and Duke don't really move the line nearly as much as they should even when the lock onto someone.

[effay]

Barry Switzer:
By the time I became the coach in 1973, Oklahoma was football. I tell people, "I didn't create the monster. George Cross and Bud Wilkinson did." My job was to feed the monster.

One challenge in feeding a monster, of course, is keeping him satisfied. Sooners fans' expectations are amazingly high. In 1975, after we had a 37-game undefeated streak snapped by Kansas, I got a letter I'll never forget from a fan in Tulsa. "Coach, it's time to change the offense," he wrote. "You need to do something other than the wishbone, because people have caught up to what you're doing."

I wrote back, "Hey, did you happen to notice what offense the other team ran that day?" Kansas, with Nolan Cromwell, had beaten us by running the wishbone! The only difference was that we'd kept fumbling.

It's Bob Stoops's monster to feed now, and it's a whole lot of fun to watch.

You won't see me complaining when we have a 37 game winning streak snapped.

[KantoSooner]

Let's start with a 14 game streak. Starting now.

[Theskipster]

You won't see me complaining when we have a 37 game winning streak snapped.

You complain that the 5th ranked scoring offense in the country is ****ty. Somehow I don't think that a 37 game streak will stop you from complaining about a lack of perfection.

[effay]

You complain that the 5th ranked scoring offense in the country is ****ty. Somehow I don't think that a 37 game streak will stop you from complaining about a lack of perfection.

Don't win NCs without being pretty close to perfection (unless you're Les Miles).

I'll admit it, I want to win NCs and when we don't, I'm disappointed (especially when we have the best players) and I look for ways to improve. Sorry.

[Eielson]

I think you might be getting a little ahead of yourself there bud. There are plenty of talented teams out there that are ruined by incompetent coaching. Look at the Ron Zook's Florida teams. Look at recent Florida St. teams. I know everybody here hates Miles, and he did get dealt a nice hand with Saban's players, but don't act like just anybody could have come in and won a NC with these guys. He deserves some credit.

Not necessarily trying to say that everybody could've won a National Title with that team, but it just looked like so many times his players were bailing him out. The only time I remember his players not bailing him out on a dumb play call was against Kentucky in OT. If a Division 1 Coaches couldn't win at least 8 or 9 games with that team, I'm not sure they deserved their job.

[Husker In Oklahoma]

How did Brent not watch tape showing how teams stopped WVU? How did Brent not know that Pat White can scramble, and just isn't that good throwing the ball?


I'm sure Venables had no idea that Pat White had completed 65% of his passes this season :rolleyes: . When you run like they run, the QB not throwing more TD passes is not unusual. Effeciency is more important and they had it this season, as evident on the long TD pass against OU. They were effecient throwing the pass and you had to respect it or be beaten by it.

[Blues1]

Pay me $600,000 a year I will coach all the 48 to 28 loss's you want...!!!!
Something needs to Change... once again - JMHO...!!!!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

yes, something needs to change. and the only people that can make that change are the coaches. what needs to change is the type of players they are recruiting.

we need to lower the quantity of prima donna blue chip athletes we are bringing in. the guys who as a junior in high school have already booked their hotels for the NFL combines their junior year. the guys who talk about leaving after their junior year to everyone who can hear. they talk about how much money they are going to make, how much bling they are going to wear, whatever. why you ask? think about busting your hump in practice to come home to your roommate who is already counting his dollar signs. to his endless talk about making the pros and bailing after his junior year. contrast that with the guy who comes home and who continues to fire you up and learn your assignments because by god, he is going to win a national championship and leave a legacy that is going to be remembered at the University of Oklahoma.

we need to stop recruiting bad football players because they have crazy athleticism. we need guys who understand their role on the team and are not going to let anything stop them from being in the right spot at the right time. there are superior football players with good athleticism to be had, but you have to stop being infatuated with the measureables and take them. its painful to watch out linebacker corps continually run into the wrong gap and leave our entire defense exposed to the big play. not every position on the field needs to be filled with an uber athlete. remember, we got laughed at for taking mark clayton. aj hawk was an afterthought compared with the #2 linebacker in the nation mike d'andrea.

we need to get motivated football players, not ones that take plays off. we have become texas and that just irritates me to no end. call it swagger, call it confidence, call it a sense of urgency, call it whatever you want, but our team goes out there and plays a friendly game of flag football. when you think about guys like rocky calmus and roy williams, they weren't top 100 national players, but they had a massive chip on their shoulder coming out of high school. and that's how they played the game, with a chip on their shoulder, trying to decapitate the ball carrier. guys like mark clayton used to run routes full speed because the defense never knew who to defend. our WRs this year have been like fingernails on a chalkboard to me with their taking plays off. kelly is leaving and, to tell you the truth, i wish iglesias was going with him. this thread is about venables, who i thought did a decent job considering his personnel, but the guy who was just flat out bad this year was sumlin. instead of sitting kelly and iglesias on the bench for their cockiness/laziness early in the season, he let it go. by the aTm game, he'd totally lost control of them and they were out there looking like early 90's miami.

[OU_Sooners75]

I agree that the coaches have done a great job with Gresham in the red zone. But, if he is so obviously good in the red zone, why can't he be that good anywhere else on the field. Forgive me, but I think 37 catches for a guy who is probably the most physically gifted TE in the country is pretty low.


Gresham had the third highest total in receptions and yards. He was first on the team with TD Receptions. For a TE, this ranks him Tied for first in TDs. 2nd in yards per reception. I am not sure about where he ranked for yards and receptions for TEs.

Could we have thrown to him more? Yeah, but don't forget that TE's (Finley, Gresham, and Eldridge) caught 64 passes for 854 yards and 15 TDs.

Please, do not forget that we had Finley and Gresham sharing the bulk of the playing time for the TEs.

[OU_Sooners75]

Also, my main problem with how we utilize MJ is that after he proved to be our second deep threat mid-season with speedy 60+ yard catches two games in a row, he might as well have been benched. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the fastest guy on offense (although Murray sure looked fast running by Griffin), he has shown some pretty good ball skills this season and he doesn't drop and fumble like Iglesias. I just wish they would treat him like the deep threat he is at least more than twice a season.

Johnson also sustained an injury in two of the games this year (Utah State and Oklahoma State).

When he did get his chance to shine, he did so very limitedly. In only 2 games did he have more than 60 yards receiving. Both those games is when he scored his 4 TDs.

This is not a knock on Johnson, but when you have perhaps the second best WR in the nation and another that will be drafted ahead you, and you are considered the 3rd choice in the throwing game, you will not get many touches.

[Desert Sapper]

...but the guy who was just flat out bad this year was sumlin. instead of sitting kelly and iglesias on the bench for their cockiness/laziness early in the season, he let it go. by the aTm game, he'd totally lost control of them and they were out there looking like early 90's miami.

I'm not gonna bad mouth any former players or assistants, because I don't think it helps us much, but I definitely cocked an eyebrow the first time I heard Kelly say why he wears #4. :eek:

[The Maestro]

Watched the Fiesta Bowl, televised version, for the first time today.

Venables should have told the school he would like to pay for his expenses on this trip and returned his January paycheck. Flag football has more defense than we showed during "the stretch".

It did blow my mind to realize WVU had 6 points at the 6:45 mark of the first half and then had 48 by 9 minutes to go in the game. That is 6 touchdowns in roughly 28 minutes. **** meet poor.

[Theskipster]

I'm sure Venables had no idea that Pat White had completed 65% of his passes this season :rolleyes: . When you run like they run, the QB not throwing more TD passes is not unusual. Effeciency is more important and they had it this season, as evident on the long TD pass against OU. They were effecient throwing the pass and you had to respect it or be beaten by it.

Most of White's throws were bubble screens. Pat White wasn't very efficient throwing downfield. The long TD pass against OU was the result of OU's players being undisciplined.

There is a reason why the only teams to shut down WVU did the opposite of what you suggest.

[FlatheadSooner]

I don't think it was just Venables. It was a series of checks-and-balances that broke down in OUr preparation. I get the feeling that there were some major ***-sumptions made from the top down that things were being taken care of but in reality.............. we now know the answer.

Do I think we'll rebound from this with some exclamation? Hell, yes.

I just wish the peaks and valleys weren't so steep!

[BoulderSooner79]

Most of White's throws were bubble screens. Pat White wasn't very efficient throwing downfield. The long TD pass against OU was the result of OU's players being undisciplined.

There is a reason why the only teams to shut down WVU did the opposite of what you suggest.

I saw several WVU games this year and they always burned their opponent down field at least once. That Reynaud guy had more TDs than MK. On the long pass, OU was in man coverage and White threw a perfect pass - just gotta tip you cap on that part. The problem was Walker gambled on deflecting the pass and wasn't even close. It should have been a 15-20 yd. play - not an 80 yd score. OU was in man due to the WVU running success, so they earned the situation. But Walker has to make the tackle knowing there is no safety help.

[cheezyq]

yes, something needs to change. and the only people that can make that change are the coaches. what needs to change is the type of players they are recruiting.

we need to lower the quantity of prima donna blue chip athletes we are bringing in. the guys who as a junior in high school have already booked their hotels for the NFL combines their junior year. the guys who talk about leaving after their junior year to everyone who can hear. they talk about how much money they are going to make, how much bling they are going to wear, whatever. why you ask? think about busting your hump in practice to come home to your roommate who is already counting his dollar signs. to his endless talk about making the pros and bailing after his junior year. contrast that with the guy who comes home and who continues to fire you up and learn your assignments because by god, he is going to win a national championship and leave a legacy that is going to be remembered at the University of Oklahoma.

we need to stop recruiting bad football players because they have crazy athleticism. we need guys who understand their role on the team and are not going to let anything stop them from being in the right spot at the right time. there are superior football players with good athleticism to be had, but you have to stop being infatuated with the measureables and take them. its painful to watch out linebacker corps continually run into the wrong gap and leave our entire defense exposed to the big play. not every position on the field needs to be filled with an uber athlete. remember, we got laughed at for taking mark clayton. aj hawk was an afterthought compared with the #2 linebacker in the nation mike d'andrea.

we need to get motivated football players, not ones that take plays off. we have become texas and that just irritates me to no end. call it swagger, call it confidence, call it a sense of urgency, call it whatever you want, but our team goes out there and plays a friendly game of flag football. when you think about guys like rocky calmus and roy williams, they weren't top 100 national players, but they had a massive chip on their shoulder coming out of high school. and that's how they played the game, with a chip on their shoulder, trying to decapitate the ball carrier. guys like mark clayton used to run routes full speed because the defense never knew who to defend. our WRs this year have been like fingernails on a chalkboard to me with their taking plays off. kelly is leaving and, to tell you the truth, i wish iglesias was going with him. this thread is about venables, who i thought did a decent job considering his personnel, but the guy who was just flat out bad this year was sumlin. instead of sitting kelly and iglesias on the bench for their cockiness/laziness early in the season, he let it go. by the aTm game, he'd totally lost control of them and they were out there looking like early 90's miami.

While I don't disagree with what you've said here, I do wonder how teams like OSU, LSU, Florida, and USC do so well with these same kinds of players, and we don't. These players will eventually have to become men when they enter the NFL, and so I think it's partially the responsibility of our staff to identify that prima donna attitude in players and either not recruit them, or shake it out of them.

I think a possible difference between Stoops and the coaches of the other teams mentioned above is that they encourage their players to show up the other team on every play. And it works, too. They get on all the highlight reels on ESPN, which pumps up their status in the polls, and then I think there is also a measure of intimidation that the opponent feels when that happens.

Stoops, however, seems to stress extreme professionalism, and perhaps these prima donnas that we keep recruiting aren't mature enough at this stage in their careers to know how to handle that while also giving their best effort? There is a huge contrast in overall attitude between Switzer's teams and Stoops teams. Perhaps Stoops should ease up on the hammer a bit and allow a little showboating? I don't know.

But what I do know is that all the effort in the world won't help if you're out of position every play, and that falls on the coaches. Venables defenses are inconsistent, and most good offensive coordinators can scheme around our defense with simple misdirection. Our offense could use some improvement, too, but at least Wilson and co. make reasonable adjustments throughout the game that put us in position to score. Once our defense gets in a bad rhythm, the game is pretty much over for us.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I think JKM has hit it right on the head, as usual; our linebacking corps outside of Lofton was way below our usual standards, and it says something about the defensive backs that a converted RB and WR are 2 of the best 3 options we have; our defensive recruiting needs to step it up about 3 notches before we can compete for another NC

[Crucifax Autumn]

This is true, but we have to remember that college coaches are a step above the high school coaches and maybe they see potential the high school boys overlooked.

[DangTire]

yes, something needs to change. and the only people that can make that change are the coaches. what needs to change is the type of players they are recruiting.

we need to lower the quantity of prima donna blue chip athletes we are bringing in. the guys who as a junior in high school have already booked their hotels for the NFL combines their junior year. the guys who talk about leaving after their junior year to everyone who can hear. they talk about how much money they are going to make, how much bling they are going to wear, whatever. why you ask? think about busting your hump in practice to come home to your roommate who is already counting his dollar signs. to his endless talk about making the pros and bailing after his junior year. contrast that with the guy who comes home and who continues to fire you up and learn your assignments because by god, he is going to win a national championship and leave a legacy that is going to be remembered at the University of Oklahoma.

we need to stop recruiting bad football players because they have crazy athleticism. we need guys who understand their role on the team and are not going to let anything stop them from being in the right spot at the right time. there are superior football players with good athleticism to be had, but you have to stop being infatuated with the measureables and take them. its painful to watch out linebacker corps continually run into the wrong gap and leave our entire defense exposed to the big play. not every position on the field needs to be filled with an uber athlete. remember, we got laughed at for taking mark clayton. aj hawk was an afterthought compared with the #2 linebacker in the nation mike d'andrea.

we need to get motivated football players, not ones that take plays off. we have become texas and that just irritates me to no end. call it swagger, call it confidence, call it a sense of urgency, call it whatever you want, but our team goes out there and plays a friendly game of flag football. when you think about guys like rocky calmus and roy williams, they weren't top 100 national players, but they had a massive chip on their shoulder coming out of high school. and that's how they played the game, with a chip on their shoulder, trying to decapitate the ball carrier. guys like mark clayton used to run routes full speed because the defense never knew who to defend. our WRs this year have been like fingernails on a chalkboard to me with their taking plays off. kelly is leaving and, to tell you the truth, i wish iglesias was going with him. this thread is about venables, who i thought did a decent job considering his personnel, but the guy who was just flat out bad this year was sumlin. instead of sitting kelly and iglesias on the bench for their cockiness/laziness early in the season, he let it go. by the aTm game, he'd totally lost control of them and they were out there looking like early 90's miami.

Has this become a staff wide infatuation with the 40 yard dash and the bench press or is it being pushed on them from the top? I don't doubt they're doing this but how did they arrive at this conclusion and how can the players go uncorrected? Or are they just dense when it comes to getting fundamentals and understanding the constructs of the D?

I couldn't agree with you more on the receivers. Watching them half-*** their way through the CU game was awful. Good luck to Sumlin, but if he does the kind of job at Houston he did at OU this year he will not be long for that school.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

While I don't disagree with what you've said here, I do wonder how teams like OSU, LSU, Florida, and USC do so well with these same kinds of players, and we don't.

the same way we did well from 2000-2004 with guys who were no names out of high school. where we have seen our problems come in is the recruiting classes after we hit the top of the mountain. i think you will see a similar degredation of play with these teams over time. USC is probably the exception with how inconsistent the pac 10 is year in year out. however, they still lost 2 games this year to teams they should have beaten by 2 tds.

[St. Louis Sooner]

We can get angry at Vulnerable all we want, but I saw OU get burned plenty when Mike Stoops was our secondary coach. Anyone remember the thrashing we got in Stoolwater one year? OSU tee'd off on our secondary all day in that one.

IMHO, ... I believe Bob's defensive philosophy has a fault to it. I don't know what it is, but we keep getting a game here or a game there where the other team exploits our secondary's weakness (whatever it is) to our demise. I don't think it's just Vulnerable's fault. Bob and Brent need to sit down and work this out together, and figure out why it keeps happening and stop it.

[effay]

do we really have to go over this again? there isn't enough practice time in college football to put in more than one scheme. lsu play man because a) they have the athletes year in and year out and b) that's what the SEC does. its called the man press and guess who came up with it? that's right bob stoops. it works great in the SEC because everyone runs traditional offenses outside of spurrier. oh wait, OU and ohio state do too. wow, talk about a buzzsaw. however, you can't run the man press in the big 12 because every team we face is a spread team. you try running man against tech and you end up with those 60 something shellackings nebraska got...

I find it hard to believe that Stoops invented the man press, but I like the assessment of why we can't run man in the Big XII. Also, it's going to be interesting to see what Big 10 teams do over the next decade or so when they are faced with Rod's O.

[goingoneight]

I think defensively we just need to have OUr guys up and ready for the challenge, which is damned difficult no matter who you are or how much money you make for 14 games a year. There are some really good offensive teams we face year in and year out who get absolutely blasted by Brent Venables' defenses. Breakdowns, bad calls, missed tackles, you can demand perfection, but let's be honest, you can't expect it.

Offensively, we're doing just fine, we just need to limit penalties and we need to speed up the execution when the game rests on offensive performance. As embarassing as it sounds, Colt McCoy or Zac Robinson's offenses may not be as talented as OU, but they know how to run a 2-minute drill successfully and get off more than three plays. We're damned slow in an offense we used to be the best in the nation at with heupel, Hybl and White. maybe that will come with time, but if you look back to how OUr hurry-up scheme worked against Utah State, a time when we needed to practice that, you would know that we were going to be in trouble should the day come we had to rely on it. When at all did we see a great misdirection, counter or QB draw this year? When did we see OUr guys rush up to the LOS and Bradford control the play by hiking his leg? Not once. He would call a play in a huddle (which burns precious seconds), we'd eassssssse up to the line, and he locked his legs and waited for the play clock to get uinder five seconds.

"WTF?" you ask... Heupel, Hybl and White recognized the signals, called the plays and went to work ASAP. If we utilized the no-huddle correctly, we might have been able to draw a few teams off-sides and eliminated a lot of false starts as well. Guys jump when they are sitting in a noisy stadium in a three-point stance waiting 9-15 seconds for the ball to get snapped. OUr holding calls in the Fiesta Bowl were a result of slow-developing plays. The longer a line has to hold off pressure, the more likely a beaten player is top grab a hold of the defender. Get the plays off quickly and smoothly, and count how many penalties you have. See Mike Leach's team. It has nothing to do with talent, it's discipline and quickness. No way were Heupel's, Hybl's and White's O-lines as big, strong, deep or talented as Sam's was this year.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Well put!

[effay]

We're damned slow in an offense we used to be the best in the nation at with heupel, Hybl and White.

The offense we run now is very different from what Hybl and White ran and fundamentally different from what Heupel did.

[Crucifax Autumn]

And is this fundamental difference a good thing?

[Curly Bill]

And is this fundamental difference a good thing?

Prolly not.

[MiccoMacey]

Heupel, Hybl and White recognized the signals, called the plays and went to work ASAP. If we utilized the no-huddle correctly...

So your main beef with our offense is that a redshirt freshman, whom absolutely nobody thought would be a great QB, can't do the things a Heisman trophy winner and runner-up, who were both juniors and seniors with multiple years behind them, could do.

Gotcha.

A bit unrealistic, I think. He led the nation in pass efficiency. He did more than an admirable job for us. To blame Sam Bradford for anything is kind of unfair, to me. Does he have things he can work on? Sure. Senior QBs who have done far worse than he need to work on their skills.

Plus, I don't remember the no-huddle ever being used by any of the other QBs you mentioned. At least not on a consistent basis.

[Desert Sapper]

So your main beef with our offense is that a redshirt freshman, whom absolutely nobody thought would be a great QB, can't do the things a Heisman trophy winner and runner-up, who were both juniors and seniors with multiple years behind them, could do.


Actually, none of the three mentioned were even Juniors when they ran the offense at peak efficiency. Heupel was a Senior when he won the MNC. Hybl was a Senior when he won the Rose. White was a Senior when he won the Heisman. And a Senior again when we lost the GOWWDNS. Sam is a Freshman. If Heupel sticks around long enough, and Sam stays healthy enough to run the offense as a Senior, we are golden. But I'd venture the experience from this year will grow Sam in instinct and maturity over the Spring and Summer, and we will see that awe inspiring Frosh to Soph development everybody is always talking about. Heck, Sam's going to be a RS Soph, which is sort of like a Junior in years at the program (and toward graduation), anyway. I think big things are coming in 2008.

[sooneron]

Stoops, however, seems to stress extreme professionalism, and perhaps these prima donnas that we keep recruiting aren't mature enough at this stage in their careers to know how to handle that while also giving their best effort? There is a huge contrast in overall attitude between Switzer's teams and Stoops teams. Perhaps Stoops should ease up on the hammer a bit and allow a little showboating? I don't know.


Yeah, some showboating, that's what we need. :rolleyes: I understand what you're saying, but showboating is not the answer. This team celebrates enough and tries hard enough to break the big play. How many times did Reggie (on punt ret) try to make a bigger play than what was there or Demarco do the same in the backfield?

Switzers' teams (with the exception of a high step here or there) rarely showboated. It was something that was pretty much indicative of the times- you didn't do it so much back then, unless you attended Coral Gables.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I d like to know who bob should hire if he replaced brent?

[goingoneight]

So your main beef with our offense is that a redshirt freshman, whom absolutely nobody thought would be a great QB, can't do the things a Heisman trophy winner and runner-up, who were both juniors and seniors with multiple years behind them, could do.

Gotcha.

A bit unrealistic, I think. He led the nation in pass efficiency. He did more than an admirable job for us. To blame Sam Bradford for anything is kind of unfair, to me. Does he have things he can work on? Sure. Senior QBs who have done far worse than he need to work on their skills.

Plus, I don't remember the no-huddle ever being used by any of the other QBs you mentioned. At least not on a consistent basis.

Re-read my post... I said that's what we "need" for 2008. There's always room to expand and improve your game, no matter how good it already is. What Sam did was remarkable, and in many ways he looked like a Jason White or Josh Heupel out there this year. If you told me back in August he'd beat Colt McCoy's TD record, win a CCG and finish leading the nation in passing efficiency, I wouldn't say you were crazy, but I'd take it.

I'm not being demanding nor am I not impressed with what we accomplished, just pointing out things that I know the coaches will point out in practice as well. If you're not running a wishbone or option, and you're running a pass-oriented offense like we do, eventually you're going to rely on how good you can be in a 2-minute drill. If there's anything we need to do next season, it's speed things up. OUr own offensive coordinators said exactly the same thing after the Colorado and Texas Tech losses. Typically, the longer it takes to snap a ball, the more likely you are to have line penalties. We have the speed and know-how, and that will probably be Sam's focal point for 2008. Another added bonus to quicker execution is more yards gained.

I see a lot of potential to be better with Gresham in where Finley used up a lot of snaps as a full-time TE, Murray (if healthy and back at 100%) starting at RB is a thrill-ride waiting to happen. With the loss of Kelly, as usual people will say we're going to suck, but look at what they said about us without AD and a n00b QB going into 2007. Better in just about every offensive category if I recall.

We're never going to be a Mickey Mouse tricky offense under Wilson, and I am thankful for that. There's only so long or so many times where gambling pays off.

[Curly Bill]

I d like to know who bob should hire if he replaced brent?

Lets fire Brent first, then worry about that. :D

[cheezyq]

Yeah, some showboating, that's what we need. :rolleyes: I understand what you're saying, but showboating is not the answer. This team celebrates enough and tries hard enough to break the big play. How many times did Reggie (on punt ret) try to make a bigger play than what was there or Demarco do the same in the backfield?

Switzers' teams (with the exception of a high step here or there) rarely showboated. It was something that was pretty much indicative of the times- you didn't do it so much back then, unless you attended Coral Gables.

That showboating part of my post was semi-tongue-in-cheek. Apparently my hidden sarcasm was a bit too clever. I can't stand teams like LSU/USC/<insert SEC team here> for that very reason. But, in all reality, I would like to see the team show some outward intensity. Like Lofton getting up in the booger eater's face. It would be nice to see more of that confidence and intensity in all our players.

[Soonerus]

BV is fine...

[Crucifax Autumn]

I agree...Seems to me that the players are having mental lapses in some of these big games. There's occasionally a dumb call on both sides of the ball, but the real problem is execution. I'd blame that on the coaches, but most of the time our guys play near perfect games so it seems to be that they are misreading plays and getting themselves out of position.

[Curly Bill]

BV is fired!...

FIXED

[PalmBeachSooner1]

Especially when it occurs multiple times under the same d-coordinator's watch.


Exactly. Look how many points we have given up this losing bowl stretch. How can Bob excuse him?

It's quite simple. If Brent was so talented, with our record the past 9 years wouldn't another school give him a head job? Of course! But they haven't. But Bob won't get rid of him because of loyalty. Sounds a lot like this guy.

[MamaMia]

i hate to bring facts into this discussion, but pelini was the man behind us moving from a 4-2-5 to the 4-3 after mike left. he ran it at nebraska and suggested to a linebacker coach who went whole hog after it. at the time it made sense with the personnel we had on campus - dan cody, rufus alexander, clint ingram - because all of our talent was in our linebacker corps and we were paper thin at safety (thank you brodney pool). one other interesting item of note, pelini has never coached a player he recruited to his defense. he's like the terry bowden of DCs...

personally, i think our problem lies more in the alignees than in the alignment. over the last several years we have demonstrated an absolute inability to find good defensive college football players. oh, we can find the NFL ready ones, and we can find the average ones, but we can't find the guys who are just old fashioned not going to make it to the NFL, blue collar, glue the team together players.
our team is kind of like the fab 5 was way back when. they have the talent to beat anyone but they also have the mental makeup to lose to anyone. when cornered, they can go on a run, but the moment they think their clear, they let up and drop one they shouldn't. or bomar the ball against oregon.Okay, then who, besides Stoops, is in charge of finding the type of players we need?

[JLEW1818]

IT'S BACK!!!

[misplaced_sooner]

Dare i say, BV=Matt Millen? Maybe he has something on ole Bobby Stoops???:rolleyes: :confused: :( J/K

The defense is what it is... At least we know what to expect...

[boomermagic]

Look, I know it sucks that we lost, but thats life. I remember the early 90's, and it was not alot of fun. I will take somewhere in the top ten each year over not even .500. Yes we have a higher expectation, but guess what we can't always win. Plus, think about the last few years, almost all BCS games. Not too bad, yes we have struggled in the past few, but parity is in college football too. If all a team hears for a month strait is how they can't win and have no chance, they play with lots of emotion. That can be hard to beat. Yea the schemes may not have been the best, but guess what IT WASN'T FOR THE NATIONAL TITLE, it was for a ranking. Who in ten years is going to remember the ranking? We will be back, and better. We have a great looking future, our egos are bruised a bit, but next year always comes, and the chance for a National Title is def there. So lets look to the future and back our team, when they need it most. BOOMER SOONER!


I doubt there is a fan on here that won't be backing the Sooners come kickoff time saturday.. I know I will be.. We can still complain and should sometimes...

[MALE918]

do we really have to go over this again? there isn't enough practice time in college football to put in more than one scheme. lsu play man because a) they have the athletes year in and year out and b) that's what the SEC does. its called the man press and guess who came up with it? that's right bob stoops. it works great in the SEC because everyone runs traditional offenses outside of spurrier. oh wait, OU and ohio state do too. wow, talk about a buzzsaw. however, you can't run the man press in the big 12 because every team we face is a spread team. you try running man against tech and you end up with those 60 something shellackings nebraska got...

The sec has a history of the spread as well. Mike Leach was the oc at kentucky in 97 and 98

Aug. 30 - Defeated Louisville, 38-24
Sept. 6 - Lost at Mississippi State, 35-27
Sept. 20 - Won at Indiana, 49-7
Sept. 27 - Lost to No. 6 Florida, 55-28
Oct. 4 - Defeated Alabama, 40-34, OT
Oct. 11 - Lost at South Carolina, 38-24
Oct. 18 - Defeated Northeast Louisiana, 49-14
Oct. 25 - Lost at No. 10 Georgia, 23-13
Nov. 1 - Lost to No. 13 Louisiana State, 63-28
Nov. 15 - Won at Vanderbilt, 21-10
Nov. 22 - Lost to No. 8 Tennessee, 59-31

Kentucky (7-5, 4-4 SEC)

Sept. 5 Kentucky 68, Louisville 34
Sept. 12 Kentucky 52, Eastern Kentucky 7
Sept. 19 Kentucky 31, Indiana 27
Sept. 26 Florida 51, Kentucky 35
Oct. 3 Arkansas 27, Kentucky 20
Oct. 10 Kentucky 33, South Carolina 28
Oct. 17 Kentucky 39, Louisiana State 36
Oct. 24 Georgia 28, Kentucky 26
Nov. 7 Kentucky 37, Mississippi State 35
Nov. 14 Kentucky 55, Vanderbilt 17
Nov. 21 Tennessee 59, Kentucky 21
Jan. 1 Penn State 26, Kentucky 14

notice they lit alot of teams up; however, the sec teams held them in check pretty well

also florida is a spread offense. although these two teams do put up points they don't go ape s**t for 45 very often. especially not against the league defensive leaders of that time.

Date Opponent Score Record Record Time Attend
---- -------- ----- -------- -------- ---- ------
Sept. 2 SOUTHERN MISS W 34-7
Sept. 9 UCF W 42-0
* Sept. 16 at #13 Tennessee W 21-20
* Sept. 23 KENTUCKY W 26-7
* Sept. 30 ALABAMA W 28-13
* Oct. 7 #9 LSU W 23-10
* Oct. 14 at Auburn 17-27 L
* Oct. 28 vs Georgia W 21-14
* Nov. 4 at Vanderbilt W 25-19
* Nov. 11 SOUTH CAROLINA W 17-16
Nov. 18 WESTERN CAROLINA W 62-0
Nov. 25 at Fresno State W 21-14
Dec. 2 vs Arkansas W 38-28
Jan. 8 vs Ohio State W 41-14

Sept. 2 [--/8] SOUTHERN MISS (SUN-PPV) W 34-7
Sept. 9 [--/7] CENTRAL FLORIDA (SUN-PPV) W 42-0
Sept. 16 [--/6] at Tennessee (CBS) [--/17] W 21-20
Sept. 23 [--/5] KENTUCKY (ESPN) W 26-7
Sept. 30 [6/5] ALABAMA (CBS) [rv/rv] W 28-13
Oct. 7 [5/5] LSU (CBS) [9/10] W 23-10
Oct. 14 [3/3] at Auburn (ESPN) [10/10] L 17-27
Oct. 28 [9/8] *vs. Georgia (CBS) [rv/25] W 21-14
Nov. 4 [7/7] at Vanderbilt (LFS) W 25-19
Nov. 11 [6/6] SOUTH CAROLINA (CBS) W 17-16
Nov. 18 [4/3] WESTERN CAROLINA W 62-0
Nov. 25 [4/4] at Florida State (ABC) W 21-14
Dec. 2 [4/4] vs. Arkansas (CBS) [8/8] W 38-28
(SEC Champ. Game • Atlanta, Ga.)
Jan. 8 [2/2] vs. Ohio State (FOX) [1/1] W 41-14

not the difference between in conf and out of conf scoring on these two spread offense teams (especially the upper echelon defensive teams of the conf)

[En_Fuego]

:pop:

[rdusooner]

lol, well played sir

[StoopTroup]

After 4 pages...I would have thought Auto would have gotten his explanation.

Huh....who knew it would take this long.

[En_Fuego]

After 4 pages...I would have thought Auto would have gotten his explanation.

Huh....who knew it would take this long.

;)