Talked to an OU player about the loss

[Soonermagik]

I won't say his name, but he is a starter. He told me he has never been this frustrated in his life. I asked him what Stoops said after the loss. Apparently Bob got on the players pretty hard and said they should have played with the same fire they had in the Missouri game.

Also, he told them they were more talented than the 2000 Championship team, but lacked the drive of that team. Personally, this player told me he was sick and tired of hearing Stoops live in the past and always praising the 2000 team.

I know Stoops takes responsibility for the losses, but I think the players were playing hard. IMHO, we had bad schemes on both sides of the ball all night. I guess the offensive line, was just that offensive with their penalties. However, I know we have had several games with lots of penalties and still won.

Just thought I would share the perspective of a player. So, if you think as a fan you have it bad, imagine hearing it from everyone you know. :(

[Ground_Attack]

at this point in the season, I blame the holds, false starts, face-masks and such on the players. There is no excuse for those mistakes. The schemes do fall on the coaches. My biggest beef was with the defense schemes as the offensive schemes were able to score 28 points despite consistently shooting themselves in the foot with untimely penalties and/or turnovers.

[Soonermagik]

Not to narrow him down, but he plays on defense. His frustration was with the coaching staff.

[Ground_Attack]

I didn't see Stoops out there making tackles against Mizzou. All I heard was how motivated the team was due to the Tigers' comments. The played flat against WV and I doubt that was the coaches. Some bad scheming? Sure, but I wouldn't put all of the blame on the coaches like it sounds your informant is doing.

[hink4769]

not to condone the defensive schemes, but the coaching staff weren't the ones missing tackles.

[Ground_Attack]

not to condone the defensive schemes, but the coaching staff weren't the ones missing tackles.

or holding

[sanantoniosooner]

I remember when I missed tackles because the scheme was bad.

[OU-HSV]

Not to narrow him down, but he plays on defense. His frustration was with the coaching staff.
Granger? ;)

[bluedogok]

I pretty much agree with Stoops, this team does have more talent but many seem like they have no burning desire to win. If you don't want to hear about the past, then do something about it and quit giving him a reason to bring it up, this team evidently didn't care enough to. I can guarantee you that every coach that has won has said the exact same thing, you don't think the Cowboys got tired of hearing about Parcell's Giants teams that won and what it took to win?

That was the most emotionless I have seen the team, they had more fire against Utah State. It's a DAMN BCS BOWL GAME, you should be on fire to play in the thing and not act like it is a Friday walk-thru.

[Vaevictis]

Hmm.

One way you could read that is that the coaches are blaming the players, and that the players are blaming the coaches.

If that's the case, there are some major problems.

[hink4769]

Hmm.

One way you could read that is that the coaches are blaming the players, and that the players are blaming the coaches.

If that's the case, there are some major problems.
At least the season's over and we have several months to sort things out!

[SouthFortySooner]

Is he coming back next year?

[jbstrick]

Personally, this player told me he was sick and tired of hearing Stoops live in the past and always praising the 2000 team.

He better get used to it. We all praise that team. Both the coaches and the players were on that field that evening. The blame lies somewhere with those two groups.

[TUSooner]

If a palyer is criticizing (or woprse, whining about) Stoops for getting on the team for a dim performance, the player needs to man up and do something about it on the practice field and at game time. That seems proof positive of Bob's point.

On one hand, we say the team lacks fire, and at the same time we binch when Bob calls them out. Go figure.

[TUSooner]

He better get used to it. We all praise that team. Both the coaches and the players were on that field that evening. The blame lies somewhere with those two groups.

I'm pretty sure Bud often challenged his players to live up to to past Sooner greatness.

[Whet]

I suggest have about 5-6 of the Soonerfans.com posters, from Norman, meet with the coaches and players to tell them what they need to do to get back to that championship form! The only question would be which 5-6?

[Soonermagik]

Is he coming back next year?

Yes, he is coming back next year.

[Soonermagik]

Hmm.

One way you could read that is that the coaches are blaming the players, and that the players are blaming the coaches.

If that's the case, there are some major problems.

You hit the nail on the head. We must admit though, the players aren't getting millions of dollars like Stoops.

[sanantoniosooner]

Yes, he is coming back next year.
Tell him you can get mojo at the mall during the "after Christmas" sales.

Buy extra for the rest of the team.

[Collier11]

Also, he told them they were more talented than the 2000 Championship team, but lacked the drive of that team. Personally, this player told me he was sick and tired of hearing Stoops live in the past and always praising the 2000 team.



sounds like the players need to take responsibility for themselves...if they are frustrated about the schemes then as a starter you probably need to step up and say something. If you dont, play some damn ball and shut up!!!

[Collier11]

I suggest have about 5-6 of the Soonerfans.com posters, from Norman, meet with the coaches and players to tell them what they need to do to get back to that championship form! The only question would be which 5-6?


Smart azz much??? Is that not what message boards are for cus if not, then why do we have them?

I personally have spent well over $4000 following this team to Ucla, New Orleans, Eugene, and Glendale only to watch us get beat do to bad play/coaching/reffing/etc...so I am pretty sure I can say or gripe as I please as long as I am not going over board and being personal as some are :pop:

[sanantoniosooner]

Smart azz much??? Is that not what message boards are for cus if not, then why do we have them?
exactly what the message boards are for.;)

[sammmo]

For this to be true, I'd have a hard time believing there is any sense of mutual loyalty.

[FirstandGoal]

Yes, he is coming back next year.


Good

Tell him and everyone else coming back that they owe us a decent bowl game.

[olevetonahill]

Is he coming back next year?
Im pretty sure Bob will return next year .

[Collier11]

exactly what the message boards are for.;)


Damnit!!! :D

[olevetonahill]

I suggest have about 5-6 of the Soonerfans.com posters, from Norman, meet with the coaches and players to tell them what they need to do to get back to that championship form! The only question would be which 5-6?
I better be one of em .

[jkjsooner]

at this point in the season, I blame the holds, false starts, face-masks and such on the players. There is no excuse for those mistakes. The schemes do fall on the coaches. My biggest beef was with the defense schemes as the offensive schemes were able to score 28 points despite consistently shooting themselves in the foot with untimely penalties and/or turnovers.

I think the offensive scheme in the second half was good. I'm not sure why we had to wait until halftime to start making changes though.

We made the WVU defense look outstanding but when you look at their sacks, hurries, and tackles for losses in the first half they almost always had guys coming in unblocked. That has to been some problem with schemes. It doesn't take Selmon to make those plays.

A prime example was the play where Gresham (I believe) was lined up against the DE or LB. He immediately leaves on a pass route and the defender has a straight shot at the QB. I'm not sure what technique Gresham is supposed to play there but it just can't be that easy. We had plays like that all over the place.

[bstuff1979]

In defense of Stoops/Venables...they did have three KEY defensive starters sitting on the sideline, not playing on the field. When you lose both corners, you are more than a little concerned about pass protection. Given that, and the loss of Granger, the staff (at least it seems to me) was more or less forced into playing out of the Nickle. You go with a 4-3 and you're giving them free reign to throw over the middle (as OU goes cover 2 zone more often than not). Without the pressure that Granger provided (though English gets the stats, the opposing O-line has to take care of one or the other. You always block interior blitz/rush before an outside rush...hense the English #'s) you have to be very concerned about pass protection in that game. Dime is something that, under no situation, you do not run against an option team. So, you've got Nickle or 3-4. OU doesn't run the 3-4. So, you're left with a Nickle formation where the safeties (usually with one of them available to step up and help with the run) are having to help against the pass more often than they're used to. There isn't the usual pressure, and the loss of Granger leaves the guy that would usually be double-teaming him or English to double on English or Lofton. This isn't to slam the backups, but one team's starters are probably going to be a good deal better than another teams backups in a BCS game (with the possible exception of OU against WSU in the Rose a few years back). I can understand the players frustration, they don't question their own talent. That's why they've achieved such a high level of play as to start or receive significant time at a program of OU's stature. But, put yourself in the coaches shoes. On D, you really can't nail them too hard for playcalling when you take in to factor all that they had to deal with in the weeks prior to the game. With a fully healed OU team, I think this would have been a much more evenly matched game. Probably still an OU loss (too many people remember wvu w/out White. Wvu w/out White is to OU vs. ttech w/out Bradford and probably even more so), but that's what speculation's for.

[Eielson]

Our players may have problems with the coaching staff, but you have to remember that a lot of these players aren't too smart.

[Vaevictis]

You hit the nail on the head. We must admit though, the players aren't getting millions of dollars like Stoops.

Heh, in that case, if you get a chance, tell him that he's right... and so is Stoops. The coaches are responsible for the team's performance and the gameplan, but by the same token, it ain't the coaches on the field.

Best you can do is to take your lumps and respectfully give back your own honest and correctly motivated criticism.

(Yeah, I know maybe it doesn't work that way on a high powered sports team, but what else can you do? Sitting there and seething about it is just going to make it worse.)

[Pigface1]

Bad schemes or not, HIT somebody. I don't give a chit if it's the waterboy, just play w/ some aggression.

[MamaMia]

Is it not the coaches responsibility to motivate the team to a certain extent?

[sanantoniosooner]

Is it not the coaches responsibility to motivate the team to a certain extent?
no doubt about it, but great players don't need "help" with it.

[olevetonahill]

Is it not the coaches responsibility to motivate the team to a certain extent?
No ;)

[bstuff1979]

Is it not the coaches responsibility to motivate the team to a certain extent?

To paraphrase Stoops
'I shouldn't have to motivate anyone for a BCS game'.

Not a direct quote, but I'm almost certain he said something of this nature either in the days before or just after 2008's "that game" (joining other infamous "that game"'s from 1984; 2005; 2007; and something about some game in the Pacific northwest, hippies, and debochary).

[Vaevictis]

no doubt about it, but great players don't need "help" with it.

Eh, if you hear some of the stories about the old halftime speeches Wilkinson used to give... I think sometimes they do.

[sanantoniosooner]

Motivation probably isn't as big of a problem as focus.

[bluedogok]

Is it not the coaches responsibility to motivate the team to a certain extent?
If you have to have someone motivate you to play in ANY football game, then maybe you need to go find the chess team. Why is it they could get up for UT, OSU or Missouri but not for a bowl game? Coaches "motivating" is much overrated, players motivate players, right now I think there is a shortage of "players" on the team and many more individuals who are more interested in looking for for the scouts than they are winning as a team. I don't think Trent Smith, Josh Heupel, AD, etc. ever needed a coach to get them motivated.

And as others have said, there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle.

[birddog]

i tend to think motivating players is a bit overrated. why should the coaches have to convince the players that football is important?

what are the coaches supposed to say?..."Now let's go kick some butt!"

[sooneron]

Eh, if you hear some of the stories about the old halftime speeches Wilkinson used to give... I think sometimes they do.
Yeah, I've heard some pretty motivational clips of Switzer too.

[birddog]

looks like a couple of people beat me to it.

[OKC-SLC]

If your friend on the team doesn't want to embrace OU's past glory, tell him to quit the team. And tell him to take his girlfriends with him.

False starts, personal fouls, and missed tackles have nothing to do with scheme.

[MissouriSooner]

It's pretty ironic that a defensive player is griping about Bob telling the defense that it displays a lack of fire and/or desire, when a big slow white guy - who couldn't outrun my Mom - ran for the longest TD of his career against a bunch of guys who were on the other side of the field playing grab-*** or whatever. When one of the most talented defenses plays like it in a bowl game, then maybe we will listen to how they get tired of hearing about previous OU teams that played their butts off. I think this whine explains a large part of the defense's problem.

[MissouriSooner]

It's pretty ironic that a defensive player is griping about Bob telling the defense that it displays a lack of fire and/or desire, when a big slow white guy - who couldn't outrun my Mom - ran for the longest TD of his career against a bunch of guys who were on the other side of the field playing grab-*** or whatever. When one of the most talented defenses plays like it in a bowl game, then maybe we will listen to how they get tired of hearing about previous OU teams that played their butts off. I think this whine explains a large part of the defense's problem.

[OK2LA]

I better be one of em .

I'm sorry to say that you missed the cut.

[Redgiant2]

The players are tired of being blamed and compared to a team that had far better coaching going on. I don't blame them. Neither Vulnerables or BJW are correcting problems that have been around for a while. Both are in over their head and Bob's covering their *** for them. I'd be a little tired of that myself. This is going to end badly if something isn't done.

[cvsooner]

It's almost as if everybody needs to go back to learning the fundamentals. "Gentlemen, this is a football."

[olevetonahill]

I'm sorry to say that you missed the cut.
well That just piszes me Off !

[Crucifax Autumn]

The players are tired of being blamed and compared to a team that had far better coaching going on. I don't blame them. Neither Vulnerables or BJW are correcting problems that have been around for a while. Both are in over their head and Bob's covering their *** for them. I'd be a little tired of that myself. This is going to end badly if something isn't done.

Well, maybe they are but they oughtta play better.

Besides...the greatest thing Bob did when he came to OU was embrace Sooner tradition and make the players aware of the grander thing they were now a part of. We ALL praised him for that and for inviting former players in for games and practices.

And besides, he publicly took the blame and saved the ripping of players for off-camera time so I think he handled it perfectly.

[MamaMia]

I don't care who's fault it is. I just want it fixed.

[Redgiant2]

Well, maybe they are but they oughtta play better.

Besides...the greatest thing Bob did when he came to OU was embrace Sooner tradition and make the players aware of the grander thing they were now a part of. We ALL praised him for that and for inviting former players in for games and practices.

And besides, he publicly took the blame and saved the ripping of players for off-camera time so I think he handled it perfectly.


Did that address anything in my post or did you just wanna add the adult equivalent of nanny nanny boo boo to the thread?

[Redgiant2]

It's almost as if everybody needs to go back to learning the fundamentals. "Gentlemen, this is a football."


Uhhhh, coach could you slow down? :D

[VMG]

It's pretty lame for a player to be telling stories outta school. I also think that the program's success over the last eight years has bred a sense of entitlement amongst some of the players.

There's plenty that a coaching staff takes heat for -- that's the nature of the business. However, if there's an ounce of leadership amongst the players, they will come to understand that it's not the coaches job to feed them motivation on a spoon. As someone has already said, if they wanna stop hearing about the 2000 team, them they oughtta do something about it -- collectively, as a team. 20 or 30 years from now, most folks won't remember or care if they were conference champions. They will remember the uninspired performance they mailed in against WVU.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Did that address anything in my post or did you just wanna add the adult equivalent of nanny nanny boo boo to the thread?

Actually, yeah...it did. You clearly expressed that being compared to other Sooner teams is "mean" of the coach, whereas I think a basic understanding of the tradition, the winning attitude, and the desire and hunger to be the best is something every Sooner coach should continually push on the players. And when they can't tackle, can't block, can't step it up when they get their chance to start, can't cover a retard with his helmet on backwards while wearing his shoes on the wrong feet they oughtta be REAMED HARD by the coaches.

And Nannoo-Nannoo to you too! :P

[dabien]

its both sides of the fault. we did have immense talent on the field. however the players make the plays
but we had schemes that were terrible and we can fix this problem.
by firing Brett Venables

[KingDavid]

Personally, this player told me he was sick and tired of hearing Stoops live in the past and always praising the 2000 team.

Remind your friend that the ENTIRE SOONER NATION thinks very frequently and with great fondness for the most recent national championship Sooner team. If he wants Stoops (and the rest of us) to stop living in the past, explain that we could use his help by WINNING #8 for us next year.

You might also pose him this hypothetical question: If you win a NC next year, will you mind it when 10 years later, Stoops and the entire Sooner Nation are still "living in the past" of his team's monumental achievement?

Such is the weight of glory. There are plenty of programs out there with no tradition or history to celebrate. I'm sure they're accepting transfers . . .

[Crucifax Autumn]

I think frequently and of fondness of all of them...particularly the ones I witnessed live under Stoops and the King. I also think fondly of all the really good teams that came "so close" to winning it all.

[MrJimBeam]

It's pretty lame for a player to be telling stories outta school. I also think that the program's success over the last eight years has bred a sense of entitlement amongst some of the players.

Recruit only Oklahoma kids, that will fix it. Oklahoma kids will always play hard for the school they love so dear. [hairGel]

[CU Sooner]

Uhhhh, coach could you slow down? :D

Is this Nick?:rolleyes:

[CU Sooner]

Coaches can provide motivation but it is ultimately up to the player to carry through. The coaches shouldn't of had to say anything the other night. There was talk of possible split MNC, what more do you need. This isn't the first time this has happened. In 84 with Washington in the OB the talk was the same. Arkie in 77, and after those games the same talk was going on. This isn't new only the board is new. So all you negs get over your selves and either stay on the wagon or jump!;)

[TUSooner]

...Personally, this player told me he was sick and tired of hearing Stoops live in the past and always praising the 2000 team....

The more I think about this statement, the more disgusted I get. Any p*ssy who does not want to measure up to OU's high expectations needs to pack his bags and GIT. Next time you see this poor little fella, slap him for me -- then run away for me, too. :O

But really... he's at the University of OKLAHOMA, fer cryin out loud. Greatness is expected every year. What did he think he was coming for? I'm starting to believe this business about the team being populated by 5-star prima donnas who aren't hungry to win.

[landrun]

Is he coming back next year?

.... Yes, he is coming back next year.

What position does he play? And what's his number? I'm not asking for a name or anything. Just a few clues. :D

[Sooner_Bob]

Is it not the coaches responsibility to motivate the team to a certain extent?


If you needed a coach to motivate you to play in one of the biggest games (the last game for some) of the year then there are other issues that need to be addressed.

A coach can challenge a player (which can probably serve as some form of motivation), but I'm not to sure there's actually much motivation that doesn't come from within the player themselves.

[sooneron]

Of course, regarding the whole motivation thing, maybe the coaches screamed their guts out and/or tried everything and it didn't work.

[sanantoniosooner]

Like I said earlier. I don't think it's a question of motivation as much as focus.

The coach has a great responsibility in directing the motivation the players have into a productive direction. There are around 60 guys that will see the field that all have a different make up and different tendencies. It's the coaches job to bring some sanity to the chaos and focus all of them on one goal and get them to function as a team instead of a bunch of individuals.

It's called synergy. We had it at one time. We've lost it.

[TMcGee86]

Like I said earlier. I don't think it's a question of motivation as much as focus.

The coach has a great responsibility in directing the motivation the players have into a productive direction. There are around 60 guys that will see the field that all have a different make up and different tendencies. It's the coaches job to bring some sanity to the chaos and focus all of them on one goal and get them to function as a team instead of a bunch of individuals.

It's called swagger. We had it at one time. We've lost it.


fixed. :P

[85Sooner]

Using pass blitzes against a running team? I believe the player.

[Lott's Bandana]

Tell him you can get coats and jackets at the mall during the "after Christmas" sales.

Buy(!) extra for the rest of the team.


Fixed.

:O

[1890MilesToNorman]

I'll bet this player never becomes a captain on the team. If he is one now, that speaks volumes about team attitude.

[sanantoniosooner]

fixed. :P
just because you don't know the definition of "synergy" is no reason to change my quote.;)

[OUmillenium]

In defense of Stoops/Venables...they did have three KEY defensive starters sitting on the sideline, not playing on the field. When you lose both corners, you are more than a little concerned about pass protection. Given that, and the loss of Granger, the staff (at least it seems to me) was more or less forced into playing out of the Nickle. You go with a 4-3 and you're giving them free reign to throw over the middle (as OU goes cover 2 zone more often than not). Without the pressure that Granger provided (though English gets the stats, the opposing O-line has to take care of one or the other. You always block interior blitz/rush before an outside rush...hense the English #'s) you have to be very concerned about pass protection in that game. Dime is something that, under no situation, you do not run against an option team. So, you've got Nickle or 3-4. OU doesn't run the 3-4. So, you're left with a Nickle formation where the safeties (usually with one of them available to step up and help with the run) are having to help against the pass more often than they're used to. There isn't the usual pressure, and the loss of Granger leaves the guy that would usually be double-teaming him or English to double on English or Lofton. This isn't to slam the backups, but one team's starters are probably going to be a good deal better than another teams backups in a BCS game (with the possible exception of OU against WSU in the Rose a few years back). I can understand the players frustration, they don't question their own talent. That's why they've achieved such a high level of play as to start or receive significant time at a program of OU's stature. But, put yourself in the coaches shoes. On D, you really can't nail them too hard for playcalling when you take in to factor all that they had to deal with in the weeks prior to the game. With a fully healed OU team, I think this would have been a much more evenly matched game. Probably still an OU loss (too many people remember wvu w/out White. Wvu w/out White is to OU vs. ttech w/out Bradford and probably even more so), but that's what speculation's for.

30 days to prepare? Surely a big time, multimillion dollar staff can come up with something better?

[OUmillenium]

Hopefully Stoops' post game went something like this...

"You know, when you were a baby in your crib, your father looked down at you, he had but one hope - some day my son will grow to be a man. Well look at you now. You just got your azzes whipped by a bunch of g@#$%^m nerds. Nerds! Well, if I was you, I'd do something about it. I would get up and redeem myself in the eyes of my father, my maker, and my coach!"

[Soonersince57]

Eh, if you hear some of the stories about the old halftime speeches Wilkinson used to give... I think sometimes they do.

Not sure if it's real or a tale, but supposedly during the 47-game winning streak, when OU was down at halftime at Colorado, Wilkinson told the team they weren't fit to wear those the school colors or something like that.

[OUmillenium]

It's pretty lame for a player to be telling stories outta school. I also think that the program's success over the last eight years has bred a sense of entitlement amongst some of the players.

There's plenty that a coaching staff takes heat for -- that's the nature of the business. However, if there's an ounce of leadership amongst the players, they will come to understand that it's not the coaches job to feed them motivation on a spoon. As someone has already said, if they wanna stop hearing about the 2000 team, them they oughtta do something about it -- collectively, as a team. 20 or 30 years from now, most folks won't remember or care if they were conference champions. They will remember the uninspired performance they mailed in against WVU.

Best post since the Fiesta Bowl, IMO.
:texan: sux

[C&CDean]

Maybe it's just me, but watching a 250 pound defensive end soundly and completely WHIP over 700 pounds of offensive linemen on the left side - ad ****ing nauseum - and a 3 man rush consistently racking Sam like a pinball - doesn't relate to poor coaching. It relates to ****-poor execution on the field. Against a 3 man front we should have been punching 8-10 yard holes between the tackles. And we might have, if those same overweight gentlemen could block without grabbing a handful of jersey, shoulder pad, leg, arm, and anything else they could HOLD.

We had 3 defensive starters out. So what are the coaches to do? Should Stoops and Venables don pads and go out and play?

It was a lifeless, gutless, pathetic group of athletes that took the field that night. My impression was that they were just thinking "**** it, we ain't playing for the NC, so let's just get this POS over with."

Coaches don't hold. Coaches don't miss tackles. Coaches don't short-kick an onsides call (which was a great call if it had worked). Coaches don't whiff on blocks. Coaches don't get themselves out of position by being suckered. Coaches don't drop passes or fumble.

It's time for the whole OU football team (sans coaches) to get together and decide if they want to be winners or not. What this team has been lacking is internal leadership. Somebody needs to step up and become the man and get these overhyped primma donnas to quit reading their own press, to quit dreaming about the NFL, and to start playing the ****ing game of football like Sooners.

TIA.

[OUmillenium]

Using pass blitzes against a running team? I believe the player.

No kidding?! What in the world was going on with some of the calls on D?

This is a fun and interesting thread, I just wish that it did not exist...meaning we would not have these issues and would be undefeated!

[Jello Biafra]

Using pass blitzes against a running team? I believe the player.


are there really any other type of blitzes? i mean, there are blitzes and then there are NOT blitzes. you either shoot gaps or you stand your man up and fight through the block. either way will get pressure on a QB.....the QB. there is no way to blitz a running back. you either defend the gaps and lanes or you don't. everyone has a responsibility on the team. i fail to believe that the coaches are putting in plays that are not taking care of every gap and every lane. lack of execution is what is getting us beat. if you are not executing because you are not properly motivated, that is the staff. if you are not executing because you don't know what the hell you are doing,........ staff. if you are not executing because you are over pursuing or biting on play action or getting flags or not playing the gap you are suppose to play or your linebacker is not telling you to get your azz (or tell you a shift) into position...... all players.......A L L P L A Y E R S............ that shows lack of leadership on the field. both offense and defense.

Loadholt (and everyone else) is jumping offsides because he is getting killed on the corner so he has to compensate by getting off the ball as quick as possible. he is holding (and everyone else for that matter) for the same reason. he is getting personal fouls because he's never been beaten so badly (probably in his career) as this year and he is getting frustrated.
bradford is not old enough and experienced enough to be able to audible out of the current play so he looks to the sidelines for help from heuple. by the time he gets his audible, we are running short on the play clock and they are rushing the play (in more cases than not)lack of leadership......

I don't know guys. these players can be as frustrated as they want about stoops always talking up the 2000 team but the fact that they have to face is that team had far less talent but seemed to be smarter as far as football goes. until they own up to their own personal shortcomings and accept their role on the team, we may struggle with this indefinately. it takes good coaches to put them in a position to win but it also takes smart, disciplined players to take the scheme and work it out.

[sanantoniosooner]

Loadholt would jump offsides if he was being rushed by Joe Paterno.

[Jello Biafra]

Loadholt would jump offsides if he was being rushed by Joe Paterno.

rofl.....THAT would be funny.....

[MojoRisen]

I think we need to recruit some good young coaches to help out - I don't think BV is getting it done on his own - he is a great recruiter but if he can not motivate his own recruits - something is up.

There could be that we can not be vanilla with our personel because we think we can man up with anyone. What works for Mizzou didn't work against tech and did not work agains't WVU.

We should be eating them up and not reacting the entire game.

I am very frusterated as this is the 4th BCS game I have been to in a row and went home embarrased with exception of LSU where I was just upset Jason missed the last past -

I don't think firing anyone is the answer but adjustments need to be made on both sides - and preparing for each team much needed.

[ashley]

Let me give you an example of missing an assignment that cost one TD. They run what amounts to the old veer pass to the slot. The safety has to trigger if the slot cracks on the backer. If the slot releases the safety has him in man. He triggered on a straight up release and left him wide open. Boys and girls, that is not a bad scheme, it's bad play.

[sanantoniosooner]

Another example of missed assignments were the several occasions that a WV player was running with the ball in their hands and the OU player failed to impede their progress in any way.

[ashley]

Bad tackling, not bad coaching.

[sanantoniosooner]

Isn't tackling an assignment?

I'm pretty sure each of the players on the defense is instructed to do so if the opportunity presents itself.

[MojoRisen]

Something to be said about that - recruiting speed doesn't always amount to football IQ and awareness.

[Jello Biafra]

annnnnnd i've never thought of this until just now (for some reason) as a peewee football coach, there are some risks that you are willing to take depending on the situation and team you are facing. think about it. as a coach of a bunch of 10 year olds.... if you are rock solid as a run stopping team and all of the sudden you have to play a team that is mainly a passing offense, would you send the house to stop that team? i would say yes because it is 10 year old football and the likelyhhod of a qb and a wr teaming up a majority of the time is not likely. now say that you DO send the house and they hook up a few times than nets them big yardage and possibly a few tds.......would you back off the blitz because you can't trust your team philosophy and current players would be able to defend it?

this may be a bad analogy but, maybe we aren't as aggressive in our play calling because we don't have the players that can make the plays consistantly enough to make the reward greater than the risk. think about it. a team is beating you down on the long ball, you send all three linebackers on a blitz along with the downlineman and you finally get to the qb but he manages to get a wounded duck to the TE over the middle and he gets big yardage because your dbacks are not good enough to spy the qb while covering a wr and they don't spot the catch until he has rumbled for about 15 yards. then, the dback gets so nervous, he closes on the TE and doesn't use a solid tackle on him and gets ran over. now the te has gone for over 20 with an opportunity to go more with a muffed tackle. so to compensate and to make sure that doesn't happen, you back off on the blitz and make sure the play never happens resulting in the pressure not being there and the qb picking the lane he thinks he make like to run down and your linebackers playing back to keep the middle covered. now, if you give a fast qb 5 yards and speed to burn over a linebacker, who wins?

now on offense.....the dbacks were playing so tight on the wr that it seemed the only that would beat them was QUICK slants but the dline proved it was more than agile enough to bat the balls. to stop the batted balls on a slant, you cut block. question....would we actually MAKE the cut block or would they miss giving the dlineman a straight line and possible knockout blow to our young qb? the next option would be play action passing which worked in the second half. why only the second half? i don't know....


anyway, i think the coaches are calling plays in a big bowl game that they know our players can execute flawlessly. they didn't but maybe the coaches had no reason to think the players could execute risky plays....dunno grasping at straws just like everyone else :)

[usmc-sooner]

Isn't tackling an assignment?

I'm pretty sure each of the players on the defense is instructed to do so if the opportunity presents itself.

if it isn't it should be. Because our defense played like crap. There's plenty of blame for those on the field as to those off the field.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

What this team has been lacking is internal leadership.
TIA.


This statement sums it up to me. Lack of on the field leadership. Their are plenty of guys who can make plays but nobody to bring everyone together when things aren't working. Malcolm Kelly is too hurt to play so what does he do? He's on the sidelines cutting up, having a great time. After bad plays, you see guys walking in different directions, heads down, by themselves. One thing this team has really suffered with is communication problems. When both sides of the ball play like a team instead of 11 individuals, you get the big 12 championship game..When everybody is out their on their own, you get Colorado-TT-Fiesta part deux.

[cvsooner]

Maybe it's just me, but watching a 250 pound defensive end soundly and completely WHIP over 700 pounds of offensive linemen on the left side - ad ****ing nauseum - and a 3 man rush consistently racking Sam like a pinball - doesn't relate to poor coaching. It relates to ****-poor execution on the field. Against a 3 man front we should have been punching 8-10 yard holes between the tackles. And we might have, if those same overweight gentlemen could block without grabbing a handful of jersey, shoulder pad, leg, arm, and anything else they could HOLD.

We had 3 defensive starters out. So what are the coaches to do? Should Stoops and Venables don pads and go out and play?

It was a lifeless, gutless, pathetic group of athletes that took the field that night. My impression was that they were just thinking "**** it, we ain't playing for the NC, so let's just get this POS over with."

Coaches don't hold. Coaches don't miss tackles. Coaches don't short-kick an onsides call (which was a great call if it had worked). Coaches don't whiff on blocks. Coaches don't get themselves out of position by being suckered. Coaches don't drop passes or fumble.

It's time for the whole OU football team (sans coaches) to get together and decide if they want to be winners or not. What this team has been lacking is internal leadership. Somebody needs to step up and become the man and get these overhyped primma donnas to quit reading their own press, to quit dreaming about the NFL, and to start playing the ****ing game of football like Sooners.

TIA.

Post of the year. 'Course it's only January 8, but still...

[OklahomaRed]

Something to be said about that - recruiting speed doesn't always amount to football IQ and awareness.


I think Dean's post ties directly into this post. Leadership is something that you can't grade out in a 40 time, or a bench press. :cool:

[usmc-sooner]

did they know they were supposed to tackle that fat hair lipped slow fullback with a bad Chuck Liddell hairdo.

[Soonermagik]

The more I think about this statement, the more disgusted I get. Any p*ssy who does not want to measure up to OU's high expectations needs to pack his bags and GIT. Next time you see this poor little fella, slap him for me -- then run away for me, too. :O

But really... he's at the University of OKLAHOMA, fer cryin out loud. Greatness is expected every year. What did he think he was coming for? I'm starting to believe this business about the team being populated by 5-star prima donnas who aren't hungry to win.


He is a good guy, but he is just really frustrated. I agree, if they are sick of hearing about the 2000 team then they need to win some big games. Maybe though, they aren't presented with the same leadership and direction as the 2000 team. Mike Stoops was a great motivator and never had a problem getting guys fired up. I'm not here to bash Venables, but a lot of players aren't too high on his ideas. USC, Boise State and now West Virginia all averaged around 45 points on our defense.

I agree this shouldn't be a finger pointing deal. We need to fix what is wrong, and both sides need to do some soul searching.

[jduggle]

I'm sorry.... poor tackling and plenty of penalties are indicitive of a poorly coached team. Either that, or Venables makes things so complex that it makes it very difficult for the players to just react and rely on their athleticism.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

I'm sorry.... poor tackling and plenty of penalties are indicitive of a poorly coached team. Either that, or Venables makes things so complex that it makes it very difficult for the players to just react and rely on their athleticism.


In fairness one of the best plays in OU history was a result of Roy Williams basically doing exactly what the coaches told him not to do (leave his feet) and I don't think anyone comments on the coaching on that play in one way or another.

It isn't like good coaching and good effort by the players are opposites but if you forced me to decide who deserved more blame in the game it is the players. There are some things that coaches are ultimately held accountable for but I don't blame a coach for a missed tackle when a player has shown in the past that he knows how to do it.

Anytime there is a loss like this there is plenty of blame to go around. Lets hope that everyone involved that is coming back takes it to heart that some things needs to be fixed and does it.

[perculator]

I'm sorry.... poor tackling and plenty of penalties are indicitive of a poorly coached team. Either that, or Venables makes things so complex that it makes it very difficult for the players to just react and rely on their athleticism.
this is true. coaching is much more than x's and o's. attitude and fundamentals are a reflection of coaching.

[texas bandman]

I won't say his name, but he is a starter. He told me he has never been this frustrated in his life. I asked him what Stoops said after the loss. Apparently Bob got on the players pretty hard and said they should have played with the same fire they had in the Missouri game.

Also, he told them they were more talented than the 2000 Championship team, but lacked the drive of that team. Personally, this player told me he was sick and tired of hearing Stoops live in the past and always praising the 2000 team.:(

What part of tradition does this young man not understand? Tradition means living up to the legacy that has preceded them. If he doesn't want to live up to the expectations then maybe he should transfer to a place where there is no tradition of excellence. Then maybe he can get a warm and fuzzy coach who tells him how good he is.

As a band director, this is one of the biggest problems I see today. Kids want you to be nice all the time and always tell them how wonderful they are. I get mad parents in every year telling me that I'm just not nice enough to their child. Well, you know, sometimes what the band/team does just sucks and you need to let the kids know. That's part of education. What I see in your story is Stoops telling them that their performance was not up to expectations and TRADITION.

Personally, I didn't see a team on the field that was playing up to the level that they had exhibited only one month earlier. This team had boatloads of talent, but I'd take the heart and determination of that WV running back that was in tears at the end of the game. The only real enthusiasm I saw displayed from the Sooners were the backups on the sideline trying to get the crowd into the game. That's sad. :(

[ouwapiti]

as they say......it aint the X's and the O's....its the jimmys and the joes......and our jimmy and joes arent that much better, if any, than everyone else's............just sayin'

[oudivesherpa]

Leadership starts at the top. The Sooners haven't been very well prepared the last 4 BCS games. I was impressed with LSU last night and the number of new offensive sets they ran. Leaders not only take responsiblity for losses, but they also take steps not to repeat them.

Is Stoops a very Good coach ? YES. Is Stoops rigid and inflexible? You be the judge, how much innovation have you seen in the last three years?

Stoops takes responsibilty, but does he take steps not to repeat the same mistakes?

[Collier11]

Stoops stubbornness often does not serve him well!

[MrJimBeam]

I'm sorry.... poor tackling and plenty of penalties are indicitive of a poorly coached team. Either that, or Venables makes things so complex that it makes it very difficult for the players to just react and rely on their athleticism.
So the team was well coached a month ago in the CCG and poorly coached last week in Pheonix?

[Collier11]

So the team was well coached a month ago in the CCG and poorly coached last week in Pheonix?


maybe it was just that the players new they had no shot at the Natl title as the #3 team in America so they really didnt care much? Not that it is right or justified, but that is one of the many problems of the BCS

[OklahomaRed]

maybe it was just that the players new they had no shot at the Natl title as the #3 team in America so they really didnt care much? Not that it is right or justified, but that is one of the many problems of the BCS


If that is true, then it's short sighted on the players part no being able to look one year ahead toward next year's hurdles that they will have to overcome in recruiting and winning the opinions of the AP voters toward the end of the year. Programs are built off success and knowing how to play in the big game.

[Collier11]

If that is true, then it's short sighted on the players part no being able to look one year ahead toward next year's hurdles that they will have to overcome in recruiting and winning the opinions of the AP voters toward the end of the year. Programs are built off success and knowing how to play in the big game.


Agreed! That was just an observation

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The thing that seems a bit strange about this conversation to me is that coaches that I have played for normally don't ream the players out after the last game.

[birddog]

maybe it was just that the players new they had no shot at the Natl title as the #3 team in America so they really didnt care much? Not that it is right or justified, but that is one of the many problems of the BCS
why did it look like wvu cared and we didn't? they had no shot at the title either.

[Collier11]

why did it look like wvu cared and we didn't? they had no shot at the title either.


Thats the question I am wondering? When we got the game to 20-15 I still dont recall any real emotion and i was at the game

[toast]

The thing that seems a bit strange about this conversation to me is that coaches that I have played for normally don't ream the players out after the last game.


yeah mine neither...they were too busy hitting the door to go get drunk.



In agreeing with Dean, this team needs to be held accountable to each other. A coach can jump up and down and use every emotional trick in the book, but a player must be able to push himself to prepare, focus and get the job done.

[texas bandman]

The thing that seems a bit strange about this conversation to me is that coaches that I have played for normally don't ream the players out after the last game.

Young team with many returning starters...do we want them to think that the bowl performance is acceptable? Stoops was probably thinking ahead to next year. He was also probably a little p*ssed at having such a talented team and losing so miserably. People in positions of authority are human, too. Hpefully he'll have a meeting with the team later letting them know that this year was successful, but that everyone expects more from the University of Oklahoma.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Young team with many returning starters...do we want them to think that the bowl performance is acceptable? Stoops was probably thinking ahead to next year. He was also probably a little p*ssed at having such a talented team and losing so miserably. People in positions of authority are human, too. Hpefully he'll have a meeting with the team later letting them know that this year was successful, but that everyone expects more from the University of Oklahoma.


Good points but I usually have a hard time with "so and so said" stories...Im naturally skeptical of everybody and everything

[Redgiant2]

So the team was well coached a month ago in the CCG and poorly coached last week in Pheonix?

One good game out of four years does not a good coach make. Is this what we've come to now?? We beat up on a Pinkel coached team and everyone holds that up like it means something grand??? That's grasping for straws buddy.

[Redgiant2]

yeah mine neither...they were too busy hitting the door to go get drunk.



In agreeing with Dean, this team needs to be held accountable to each other. A coach can jump up and down and use every emotional trick in the book, but a player must be able to push himself to prepare, focus and get the job done.

You guys can talk about team accountability and they should hold themselves responsible all you want. That doesn't change the fact that their is a respect problem going on here. There is a loss of faith. Perhaps the incredibly poor fundamentals and the busted coverages are stemming from that or maybe they are the reason for it. Either way it needs to be fixed.

[tigepilot]

I read the first page of this thread earlier today and moved on but it's been bothering me all day. Whoever it is complaining needs to man up and own his own performance. YES the 2000 team had more heart than you! YES you have more talent than the 2000 team! Is he complaining that Stoops is telling him the truth. If he doesn't like it, why doesn't he get mad enough to show it on the field?... prove him wrong! Everyone can complain about coaching all they want but the players have to care enough to put out an effort... that's what really bothered me... I saw NO effort out of ANYONE on that defense.

OH, I do hope whichever player was doing the complaining reads this. That performance was too pathetic to be complaining about getting reemed.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

You guys can talk about team accountability and they should hold themselves responsible all you want.


K thanks for the permission

[Collier11]

One good game out of four years does not a good coach make.

You lost all credibility with that statement!

[opksooner]

Maybe it's just me, but watching a 250 pound defensive end soundly and completely WHIP over 700 pounds of offensive linemen on the left side - ad ****ing nauseum - and a 3 man rush consistently racking Sam like a pinball - doesn't relate to poor coaching. It relates to ****-poor execution on the field. Against a 3 man front we should have been punching 8-10 yard holes between the tackles. And we might have, if those same overweight gentlemen could block without grabbing a handful of jersey, shoulder pad, leg, arm, and anything else they could HOLD.

We had 3 defensive starters out. So what are the coaches to do? Should Stoops and Venables don pads and go out and play?

It was a lifeless, gutless, pathetic group of athletes that took the field that night. My impression was that they were just thinking "**** it, we ain't playing for the NC, so let's just get this POS over with."

Coaches don't hold. Coaches don't miss tackles. Coaches don't short-kick an onsides call (which was a great call if it had worked). Coaches don't whiff on blocks. Coaches don't get themselves out of position by being suckered. Coaches don't drop passes or fumble.

It's time for the whole OU football team (sans coaches) to get together and decide if they want to be winners or not. What this team has been lacking is internal leadership. Somebody needs to step up and become the man and get these overhyped primma donnas to quit reading their own press, to quit dreaming about the NFL, and to start playing the ****ing game of football like Sooners.

TIA.

Have to agree, especially with this part.
My impression was that they were just thinking "**** it, we ain't playing for the NC, so let's just get this POS over with." Very problematic.

[C&CDean]

You lost all credibility with that statement!

He lost all credibility long before that statement.

[Redgiant2]

You lost all credibility with that statement!

Yes because the truth hurts and you've got your head buried in warm dark places.

[Redgiant2]

K thanks for the permission

You're more than welcome.

[Collier11]

He lost all credibility long before that statement.
:D

[Scott D]

He lost all credibility long before that statement.

right about the time he made his first or perhaps second post.

[Redgiant2]

He lost all credibility long before that statement.

The truth hurts, A LOT. So if it helps to malign someones credibility to save ones own inner child so be it.

[Jello Biafra]

You guys can talk about team accountability and they should hold themselves responsible all you want. That doesn't change the fact that their is a respect problem going on here. There is a loss of faith. Perhaps the incredibly poor fundamentals and the busted coverages are stemming from that or maybe they are the reason for it. Either way it needs to be fixed.

so, you tell us, redgiantpaininthazzz, how do you do that?

the loss of faith is more than likely due to ugly losses that they should have won. who knows.....one good read in last years fiesta bowl and we win that one. one catch out of four in the endzone at the end of the game against LSU in 2003. one less muffed punt by bradley vs USC..........(maybe....we get momentum and keep it. maybe we don't)a good solid onside kick vs WVU (we could have kept the momentum in this one)we're talking about us having another NC and two other possible bowl championships.....
maybe the respect issue is ACTUALLY coming from the incredibly poor fundamentals and busted coverages. it DOES need to be fixed. how would you fix it? take em all for Ice cream after a tough practice? these are 18-23 year old kids getting a free ticket through college to play the game they have grown up loving, at one of the most enshrined homes of college football. this is not north texas state university for the legally pussified. most of these kids have been playing since the were 6. they know you DON'T miss a tackle because you don't like your coach.....you don't bite HARD on a playaction pass because you think venables breath stinks.....you don't take a bad angle on a tackle because you think coach wilson has the worst porn stache in college football history. they know this is usually a free ticket to the bench..... never to be seen or heard from again. nope, i think the coaches call the plays to put them in good position to make a play and they either get nervous and pizz on themselves or just disregard their assignment, looking to make the ESPN sportscenter highlight trying to "up" their stock for the nfl causing his team mates to take up the slack as well as trying to cover what they got...........

take it for what its worth. just another opinion.

[Redgiant2]

right about the time he made his first or perhaps second post.

Anther inner child is lost!

[Redgiant2]

so, you tell us, redgiantpaininthazzz, how do you do that?

the loss of faith is more than likely due to ugly losses that they should have won. who knows.....one good read in last years fiesta bowl and we win that one. one catch out of four in the endzone at the end of the game against LSU in 2003. one less muffed punt by bradley vs USC..........(maybe....we get momentum and keep it. maybe we don't)a good solid onside kick vs WVU (we could have kept the momentum in this one)we're talking about us having another NC and two other possible bowl championships.....
maybe the respect issue is ACTUALLY coming from the incredibly poor fundamentals and busted coverages. it DOES need to be fixed. how would you fix it? take em all for Ice cream after a tough practice? these are 18-23 year old kids getting a free ticket through college to play the game they have grown up loving, at one of the most enshrined homes of college football. this is not north texas state university for the legally pussified. most of these kids have been playing since the were 6. they know you DON'T miss a tackle because you don't like your coach.....you don't bite HARD on a playaction pass because you think venables breath stinks.....you don't take a bad angle on a tackle because you think coach wilson has the worst porn stache in college football history. they know this is usually a free ticket to the bench..... never to be seen or heard from again. nope, i think the coaches call the plays to put them in good position to make a play and they either get nervous and pizz on themselves or just disregard their assignment, looking to make the ESPN sportscenter highlight trying to "up" their stock for the nfl causing his team mates to take up the slack as well as trying to cover what they got...........

take it for what its worth. just another opinion.

All these are correctable. They've been happening for the last 4 years regardless of player or position changes. The only consistent bit of incompetence has been Vulnerables. Keep living in 2000 just like the staff. It's doing a lot of good so far.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Its always good to have one poster not afraid to speak the truth!

[Jello Biafra]

All these are correctable. They've been happening for the last 4 years regardless of player or position changes. The only consistent bit of incompetence has been Vulnerables. Keep living in 2000 just like the staff. It's doing a lot of good so far.


still waiting for your solution for this problem. remember what your dad (at least should have) told you. if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. if you can nail down one specific moment in time, we could help possibly. the issue may be in the attitude of the coaching staff. i doubt seriously its knowledge. it's not like these fuggin guys are so stupid that they drown when they look up when it rains....

[Pigface1]

Thats the question I am wondering? When we got the game to 20-15 I still dont recall any real emotion and i was at the game

During the coin flip one of WVU's guys was talking all kinds of smack and our guys just stood there. I think Allen Patrick said, "Oh really?" or something kind of subdued like that.

It reminded my of Torrance Marshall talking to Weinke, only with OU on the receiving end this time.

[TXBOOMER]

Granger? ;)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!:)

[birddog]

During the coin flip one of WVU's guys was talking all kinds of smack and our guys just stood there. I think Allen Patrick said, "Oh really?" or something kind of subdued like that.

It reminded my of Torrance Marshall talking to Weinke, only with OU on the receiving end this time.

yeah, i saw that. our guys looked shocked. i was waiting for them to give it back to him but they never did.

that dude ended up killing us on punt returns.

you can't coach that.

[Monster Zero]

Hmm.

One way you could read that is that the coaches are blaming the players, and that the players are blaming the coaches.

If that's the case, there are some major problems.
Brings an old saying to mind.

"You don't change soldiers, you change generals."

Or something like that.

Not lookin to be negged, just sayin.

[recemp]

Nobody seems to mention "Sooner Magic" any more. We had that mojo in 2000.
The bounce at the Nebraska game that resulted in a completion and we go to the NC. In 2001 the bounce goes the other was and Nebraska goes.
Good teams make their own magic. Losers live the 'what ifs".
I suppose we have to live in the past until something better comes along.
Some of those games in 2003 and 2004 I left with a feeling that it was a privilege to have seen them.
I won't let go of that wow for a while.

[soonermix]

one thing that i thought of while reading this thread is the fact that it was easy for the 2000 team to find motivation they were almost always the underdog that year.

[cvsooner]

You know, there are 119 teams in NCAA football. Half of them will have losing records.

Ten teams will play in the BCS bowls, including the championship. Five of them will go home as losers.

No matter who you are, you can't win 'em all. Right now I'm just thankful for tOSU. Takes a little of the glare off of us for a little bit.

[C&CDean]

The truth hurts, A LOT. So if it helps to malign someones credibility to save ones own inner child so be it.

Two words.

Crack. Kills.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

You hit the nail on the head. We must admit though, the players aren't getting millions of dollars like Stoops.
No, but they are getting thousands.

[boomrsoonr]

How many of us, back in September, thought this team would go 11-3, win the Big 12 Championship again, and beat Texas, OSU, and Missouri? We didn't even know who the quarterback was going to be. This team went way beyond my expectations, but like some, my expectations grew as the season progressed. That's our fault.

That said, it is absolutely on the players to get out there and execute. If they don't know how, that's something that should have been taught in spring and fall practices by the coaches. There were some plays, on both sides of the ball, that looked like the players had no clue what was going on.

I'm actually surprised by the defense this year. They did better than most of us expected considering how weak our secondary usually is. I'm also surprised by the offense this year. Murray was awesome. Patrick was great when he was motivated. Kelly is all-world when healthy. And Bradford? I'm so happy for the guy! I just hope he doesn't have a Colt McCoy breakdown next year. But what really surprises me is an offensive line that, as big and bad as they were supposed to be, was mediocre at best. Loadholt alone should be able to just stand in peoples way. If the guy can't get off the ball fast enough to block, make him a full back. At least back there he could be mostly standing up and in position to block a rusher.

Venebles, IMO, is fine, but could probably use an assistant that had the fire that Mike had. Seems to me he's the only one running around yelling his head off. Whereas with Mike, they both did it.

And Wilson, argh. Even Coach Merv complained about running the same ol' play on 4th and 2. Wilson has moments of brilliance. But then there's the times that my 10 year old grandson can tell you what play they're running next. IMO, he's only slightly better at calling plays than Chuckie "Cheese" Long was. He's caused me more acid reflux this season than anything. If there was one coach that I wish Bob would replace, it would be Wilson.

So what's the purpose to this rant? Nothing really. Just showing that we all have our opinions, and frustrations.

But one thing is for sure. I do agree that the players are the ones that need to step up and do something about the status quo if they don't like hearing about the past. Either that, or admit they aren't that good and take a seat and let someone in there with a little more fire and ability have a shot at it.

[rubyspirit]

Stoops is wrong to blame the players. It is solely a coaching problem.

3 TDs behind and running the ball with 8 mins left. Totally stupid!

[bstuff1979]

Stoops is wrong to blame the players. It is solely a coaching problem.

3 TDs behind and running the ball with 8 mins left. Totally stupid!

With the rate that the blitz was getting to Bradford, it would have been beyond idiotic to exclusively pass the ball. You've got to have something to keep the D off balance (or try to keep the D off balance). The offense scored enough points to win. What they could have done a little better was ball control/time of possesion. It's all moot, as the OU D got lit-up like a Christmas tree. I was a littel dissapointed with some play-calling through the entire game, but when you can't controll the blitz there isn't much you can do. I would hope that this game encourages some two-back shotgun sets to work their way into the playbook next year. Even better, it would be good to see the tackles improve on holding a pocket long enough for pass plays to developee against a blitz heavy D like the 30 stack. You think texas, A&M, or Mizzou were paying attention to how well that worked?

[rubyspirit]

Sammy should roll out more ...

[aero]

nm

[goingoneight]

It was clear that no matter how many points we scored, WVU was going to answer and make us look bad. The defense was flat-out quitting on some of those long TD runs. The three possessions that ended in field goals, the interception and the utter lack of defense beat us. Honestly, I think the onside kick, if you were going to call it, that was the time to do it. Plenty of time to redeem yourself if it didn't work, full momentum if it did. It's not like if Garrett Hartley nailed the ball deep we'd have stopped them anyway. We didn't WANT or CARE to stop them.

[bluedogok]

One good game out of four years does not a good coach make. Is this what we've come to now?? We beat up on a Pinkel coached team and everyone holds that up like it means something grand??? That's grasping for straws buddy.
Wow, I thought the team went 42-11 the past four seasons, I didn't realize the team actually went 1-52. Thanks for straightening that out :rolleyes:

If they don't want to hear about past teams and their success maybe they should have gone somewhere without a tradition.

[goingoneight]

8 pages and no one has called the "I talked to an OU player, but I won't tell you who" bluff.

I once talked to a coach, I won't say who, and he said that a certain player, I won't say who got caught doing something, I won't say what, that he shouldn't have been doing, too. Maybe he was a coach, heck... he was wearing a whistle.

[hink4769]

If they don't want to hear about past teams and their success maybe they should have gone somewhere without a tradition.
Stillwater's only a little over an hour away.

[bluedogok]

8 pages and no one has called the "I talked to an OU player, but I won't tell you who" bluff.

I once talked to a coach, I won't say who, and he said that a certain player, I won't say who got caught doing something, I won't say what, that he shouldn't have been doing, too. Maybe he was a coach, heck... he was wearing a whistle.
Were they talking at 31 Flavors?


Stillwater's only a little over an hour away.
Nah, they still talk about Barry Sanders and the "magical" 1988 season.

[princetonsooner]

I hope the player wasn't a linebacker because outside of Loften we don't have any.I mean they don't even make an impact on special teams.

[goingoneight]

It was an endbacker. :D

[Redgiant2]

Wow, I thought the team went 42-11 the past four seasons, I didn't realize the team actually went 1-52. Thanks for straightening that out :rolleyes:

If they don't want to hear about past teams and their success maybe they should have gone somewhere without a tradition.

Yes and I know throwing up another team in their face is the perfect way to motivate a group of people to do better. Yeah that's what you call team building right there. If it's true perhaps a Dale Carnegie course is due our esteemed Mr. Stoops.

[Edmond Sooner]

8 pages and no one has called the "I talked to an OU player, but I won't tell you who" bluff.

I once talked to a coach, I won't say who, and he said that a certain player, I won't say who got caught doing something, I won't say what, that he shouldn't have been doing, too. Maybe he was a coach, heck... he was wearing a whistle.

I agree. I find it hard to believe that in this day of saturation internet awareness such a disgruntled player would be "spilling" such SERIOUS (as opposed to just "yeah, it sucked") dissatisfaction anywhere but to local sports writers and other such media savants.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I talked to an OU player too...he said, "who the F are you???? Don't you know we're a team and what happens in the lockerroom stays in the lockerroom!"

I bowed and praised his loyalty and told him we need the whole team to be like that and not talk to retards posting on messageboards. He replied that he once posted stupid crap on a board too, and from time to time posted smart things, but that at this point he was a Sooner, not a Sooner fan and that anyone chatting it up about team business outside of official press conferences was a problem.


Yep...I made it up, but so did the original poster.

[sanantoniosooner]

I talked to Manu Ginobili about the loss and he said people in Argentina were pretty broken up about it.

[C&CDean]

Yes and I know throwing up another team in their face is the perfect way to motivate a group of people to do better. Yeah that's what you call team building right there. If it's true perhaps a Dale Carnegie course is due our esteemed Mr. Stoops.

yeah? And a permaban is due our esteemed Mr. Red - Nickzeppelinwannabe - giant2.

Bye bye.

[Ash]

How did this thread make eight pages?

[C&CDean]

How did this thread make eight pages?

Because we're retards?

[sanantoniosooner]

I can't wait for the sequel.

We can only hope Redgiant3 will live up to the others.

[1stTimeCaller]

Wait for the announcement of one of our coaches 'leaving' for another job.

[INGRAM1]

I didn't see Stoops out there making tackles against Mizzou. All I heard was how motivated the team was due to the Tigers' comments. The played flat against WV and I doubt that was the coaches. Some bad scheming? Sure, but I wouldn't put all of the blame on the coaches like it sounds your informant is doing.

I agree. The players need to do what the coaches ask them to do and not get so many penalities.

[Jello Biafra]

Yes and I know throwing up another team in their face is the perfect way to motivate a group of people to do better. Yeah that's what you call team building right there. If it's true perhaps a Dale Carnegie course is due our esteemed Mr. Stoops.


quick. before this thread gets locked......this statement right here shows absolutely nothing but blind ambition to stir a pot. this tatic works on someone and some groups every single day. what is the best way to get some people or groups to do something you want? tell them they can't. it's a common practice among any group you might encounter. it's blatantly obvious to me, you've never spent time in the front leaning rest position.

[sanantoniosooner]

JB-

the dude has already been banned.

Thanks for pointing out he was a trouble maker though;)

[Jello Biafra]

JB-

the dude has already been banned.

Thanks for pointing out he was a trouble maker though;)

any thing i can do to help......

i simply don't have the patience or the stamina to read these types of threads so i typically pick at the scab(poster) until it bleeds. but thanks for pointing out my pointing out abilities...

*middle finger* suck it SAS ;)

[sanantoniosooner]

I hear this rumor that Mike Vick is being mean to dogs.

Just in case you want to break another story :D

[Jello Biafra]

I hear this rumor that Mike Vick is being mean to dogs.

Just in case you want to break another story :D


yeh someone else beat me to that one but speaking of dogs....i found out last evening that your mother dances at the red dog (i had a client there.....really i did)for food stamps, government cheese and alpo.....i had none of the above but i did invite her to the parking lot to check the tire pressure on my 4 door truck. :)

[sanantoniosooner]

momma jokes...........edgy :D

[1stTimeCaller]

look at SAS making friends!!

;)

[Jello Biafra]

momma jokes...........edgy :D


nope. not edgy.... simply modus operandi until i get angered :) the momma jokes typically bring out the worst or best in people.

[sanantoniosooner]

look at SAS making friends!!

;)
some react to teasing differently:)

I'll mark Jello off my list of sparring partners

[1stTimeCaller]

I was teasing. Man, this weather sure is wacky!

[BIG_IKE]

At the end of the day...Bob Stoops gets paid 3 million dollars to be a leader of the Oklahoma Sooners. He is compensated more than anyone in college football.
Leadership = The ability to affect human behavior so as to accomplish a mission designated by the leader.
The coaches were responsible for having them prepared for the game on every level. Thats what they are paid for. If it wasn't then we would not have coaches. Stoops worshipers stop defending him. And let's not call him Big Game Bob anymore either OK?

[Theskipster]

At the end of the day...Bob Stoops gets paid 3 million dollars to be a leader of the Oklahoma Sooners. He is compensated more than anyone in college football.



You know, if you want people to believe your moronic opinions, maybe you should get your facts right first. Or at least don't make it so obvious that you don't have a clue.

[Jello Biafra]

At the end of the day...Bob Stoops gets paid 3 million dollars to be a leader of the Oklahoma Sooners. He is compensated more than anyone in college football.
Leadership = The ability to affect human behavior so as to accomplish a mission designated by the leader.
The coaches were responsible for having them prepared for the game on every level. Thats what they are paid for. If it wasn't then we would not have coaches. Stoops worshipers stop defending him. And let's not call him Big Game Bob anymore either OK?


that stopped with MOST of us around the year we played the condoms.....

like i asked earlier.......give us a DEFINATE issue that needs to be fixed.
what should he do? boot every player he can from the team so they execute the plays like zombies? that will still get you beat, actually.
start recruiting players that can't ACTUALLY read so as to keep them from believing all they read on message boards and newspapers? then they also won't be able to read the play books.
start recruiting players that are known to be hitting the needles so we are bigger fast stronger than any opponent we face?
if you spend more time yelling at the players for things they are screwing up, it gives you less time actually moving forward with your coaching and teaching them the next step in their progression as a d1 football player.

bottom line. you recruit for what you need. 2003 recruiting class hurt us. bad. and we are still feeling the ripple effect from it. from starting players that have no business starting as early as they do to players that have not proven they know what they are doing in those positions yet to players leaving shortly after being named a starter to kids who simply don't want to lose weight to play a position that they flat out dominate to kids who simply are not smart enough to play but fill a hole.


so, bigsmartcoach.com guru, what is stoops suppose to do? we have made some recruiting blunders with character(to include recruiting those who have spent their entire football career listening to people tell them how good they are and thus becoming uncoachable. for the most part), discipline and academic issues but everyone has those. including miles and tressel.

[Indy Sooner]

Our players may have problems with the coaching staff, but you have to remember that a lot of these players aren't too smart.

Yeah, the smart ones choose the highly (academically) rated Texas U. I've heard alums refer to it as the "Harvard of the Big 12". :texan:

[bstuff1979]

Yeah, the smart ones choose the highly (academically) rated Texas U. I've heard alums refer to it as the "Harvard of the Big 12". :texan:


...and then, promptly, smoke themsevles stupid.

[BIG_IKE]

Hey I don't have the answers as to what needs to be done. I don't get paid to do that. All I am stating is that it's the coaches responsibility o have the players ready for the game physically and mentally.

If your argument is the players were FLAT...then it's the coaches job to motivate them.

If your argument is that we were missing players...and the coaches did everything right, then maybe WVU is just better than us.

And the guys that does not think Stoops is the most compensated guy in college football....get YOUR facts straight and read thishttp://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/big12/2006-11-16-stoops-compensation_x.htm

[MextheBulldog]

Article is from 2006. Saban and Weis now make more than Stoops.

[BoulderSooner79]

Article is from 2006. Saban and Weis now make more than Stoops.

And Saban won his bowl game and Weis didn't lose one - so you get what you pay for :D

[Theskipster]

I'm thinking we need to hire Mack Brown. We could trade coaches. Texas fans are sick of winning bowl games while losing the conference and Sooners are sick of winning the conference but losing bowl games. Seems like a no brainer to me.

And having getting Coach Clapper even solves this thread's original problem!

I'm a genius.

[TUSooner]

.... maybe WVU is just better than us.....

:eek: :eek: BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!!!! :eek: :eek:

[Collier11]

Yes because the truth hurts and you've got your head buried in warm dark places.

Lets see here, the last 4 seasons in "Big Games"...we are 17-8 which is certainly not 1 win as you suggest. While it isnt a sparkling record and not near what we expect from Coach Stoops, 5 of those 8 losses happened during or after the Bomar Fiasco when stoops had extremely young and inexperienced Qb's and O-lines. I included all games against ranked teams, conf title games, rivalry games, and games against good "name" teams.


2004
Oregon 31-7 1-0
#5 Texas 12-0 2-0
#20 osu 38-35 3-0
#22 A&M 42-35 4-0
Big 12 title game Colorado 42-3 5-0
Game that we do not speak of 5-1

2005
@ Ucla L 5-2
tex L 5-3
@ NEB 31-24 6-3
@ #21 Tech L(we all know what happened here 6-4
okie state 42-14 7-4
#6 Oregon 17-14 8-4

2006

@#18 ORegon (we all know what happened here) 8-5
tex L 8-6
@ #23 Mizzou 26-10 9-6
@ #21 A&M 17-16 10-6
@ Stillwater 27-21 11-6
#19 Neb Big 12 title 21-7 12-6
Fiesta Bowl L 12-7

2007

Miami 52-13 13-7
# 19 Texas 28-21 14-7
#11 Mizzou 41-31 15-7
osu 49-17 16-7
#1 Mizzou Big 12 title game 38-17 17-7
Fiesta Bowl L 17-8

[HopeSpringsEternal]

Lets see here, the last 4 seasons in "Big Games"...we are 17-8 which is certainly not 1 win as you suggest. While it isnt a sparkling record and not near what we expect from Coach Stoops, 5 of those 8 losses happened during or after the Bomar Fiasco when stoops had extremely young and inexperienced Qb's and O-lines. I included all games against ranked teams, conf title games, rivalry games, and games against good "name" teams.


2004
Oregon 31-7 1-0
#5 Texas 12-0 2-0
#20 osu 38-35 3-0
#22 A&M 42-35 4-0
Big 12 title game Colorado 42-3 5-0
Game that we do not speak of 5-1

2005
@ Ucla L 5-2
tex L 5-3
@ NEB 31-24 6-3
@ #21 Tech L(we all know what happened here 6-4
okie state 42-14 7-4
#6 Oregon 17-14 8-4

2006

@#18 ORegon (we all know what happened here) 8-5
tex L 8-6
@ #23 Mizzou 26-10 9-6
@ #21 A&M 17-16 10-6
@ Stillwater 27-21 11-6
#19 Neb Big 12 title 21-7 12-6
Fiesta Bowl L 12-7

2007

Miami 52-13 13-7
# 19 Texas 28-21 14-7
#11 Mizzou 41-31 15-7
osu 49-17 16-7
#1 Mizzou Big 12 title game 38-17 17-7
Fiesta Bowl L 17-8

Yes and I believe I said on more than one occasion that even in those spectacular, crushing, steam rolling wins, as you seem to think they are, the defense was making the same kinds of mistakes. Continue dreaming though champ. Good God you people seem to think this **** creeps up from nowhere. Are you that blind??? Do you actually think they magically start screwing up in bowl games just because they went to the ****ing icecapades one night too many??? This stuff was apparent all year long. I've been saying this was gonna happen all year long. So I tell you what pal, go **** in someone else's pocket for a while.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

8 pages and no one has called the "I talked to an OU player, but I won't tell you who" bluff.

I once talked to a coach, I won't say who, and he said that a certain player, I won't say who got caught doing something, I won't say what, that he shouldn't have been doing, too. Maybe he was a coach, heck... he was wearing a whistle.


You didnt read my a couple of my posts. Thats why I said I ve never had a coach lose it after the last game of the year like what he was saying.

[Texas Golfer]

We had three losses this year and all were to teams we should have beaten. The only one I put square on the coaches' shoulders is the Tech game.

Tech had the next to last rushing defense in the Big XII and, when Sam went down, the coaches had Joey coming out, totally cold, throwing early and throwing often. Tech had the 4th best passing defense.

It seems to me that we would have had our three world-class RBs running up and down the field. With fresh legs and a tired Tech defense, we should have rolled all over Tech and it also would have kept Harrell, Craptree, Amendola, and the rest of the Tech offense on the bench.

[Collier11]

Yes and I believe I said on more than one occasion that even in those spectacular, crushing, steam rolling wins, as you seem to think they are, the defense was making the same kinds of mistakes. Continue dreaming though champ. Good God you people seem to think this **** creeps up from nowhere. Are you that blind??? Do you actually think they magically start screwing up in bowl games just because they went to the ****ing icecapades one night too many??? This stuff was apparent all year long. I've been saying this was gonna happen all year long. So I tell you what pal, go **** in someone else's pocket for a while.

If you would pull your head out of my azz and read my post, I wasnt replying to you and second, the point of my post was that the guy whom I QUOTED(not you) said that Stoops had 1 big win in the last 4 years

[HopeSpringsEternal]

OK, you've proven you have the thinking capabilities of a retarded chimp. I'm done beating up on a special olympian.

[sanantoniosooner]

OK, you've proven you have the thinking capabilities of a retarded chimp. I'm done beating up on a special olympian.
You might as well up the ante.

You'll be banned anyway. Go out with flair.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I heart the offseason

[Collier11]

I heart the offseason


Second that!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Second that!

Only in the offseason can you have a 10 pager on an imaginary conversation.WOOT!

[Collier11]

Only in the offseason can you have a 10 pager on an imaginary conversation.WOOT!


this will only go on until after spring ball and then the bickering and arguing will commence over the numerous repeat "lists" that will surface...Most of them posted by me :D

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Then I ll start a "I had a talk with C11" thread that basically says you told me that you don't come up with your own lists

[sanantoniosooner]

*room*

[stoops the eternal pimp]

*room*


quiet monte

[Jason White's Third Knee]

I suggest have about 5-6 of the Soonerfans.com posters, from Norman, meet with the coaches and players to tell them what they need to do to get back to that championship form! The only question would be which 5-6?\


5-6... wasn't that during schnelly's tenure?


Hey, look. Our offensive line looked like they were in mud. West Virginia was whipping our all universe O-line. I know for a fact that they weren't near as jacked as they needed to be before that game. We needed someone to 'take our boy's trophy' or something.

[Collier11]

Then I ll start a "I had a talk with C11" thread that basically says you told me that you don't come up with your own lists


jerk! :O

[Collier11]

\


5-6... wasn't that during schnelly's tenure?


Hey, look. Our offensive line looked like they were in mud. West Virginia was whipping our all universe O-line. I know for a fact that they weren't near as jacked as they needed to be before that game. We needed someone to 'take our boy's trophy' or something.


That is where it comes down to coaching, if our guys only "play their best" when they are challenged, then Stoops needs to find a way to **** them off every single week until we get guys who will play hard every down of every game

[Jason White's Third Knee]

That is where it comes down to coaching, if our guys only "play their best" when they are challenged, then Stoops needs to find a way to **** them off every single week until we get guys who will play hard every down of every game


Stoops can talk all he wants, but they have to make up their own minds. They have been flat for the last 4 bowl games. It's tough to blame Stoops, but it's happened for several years now.

Cattle prod?

[josh09]

I blamed the penalties and 2 defensive starters for being stupid.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

4 different bowl games, 4 different teams, multiple position changes, 1 scheme change with the same damn result. The only constant is Venables. If you can manage to blame the players after that you're hopeless and/or clueless.

[Collier11]

6 left...

[hink4769]

We had three losses this year and all were to teams we should have beaten.
Was there a team on the schedule that we shouldn't have beaten? No. But should we expect the team to always go undefeated in that scenario. No. Yeah we shouldn't have lost too CU no argument. But Tech on the road is not an easy game especially with a backup QB that hasn't played at all. WVU IS A GOOD TEAM. They obviously didn't miss there coach, and played to their potential. I'm not saying we weren't better than them, but they were probably the best team on our schedule, so if there were any "acceptable losses" I think TT and WVU would have been them.

[Texas Golfer]

Was there a team on the schedule that we shouldn't have beaten? No. But should we expect the team to always go undefeated in that scenario. No. Yeah we shouldn't have lost too CU no argument. But Tech on the road is not an easy game especially with a backup QB that hasn't played at all. WVU IS A GOOD TEAM. They obviously didn't miss there coach, and played to their potential. I'm not saying we weren't better than them, but they were probably the best team on our schedule, so if there were any "acceptable losses" I think TT and WVU would have been them.

I don't consider Tech as an acceptable loss. We were #4 and they were unranked. They had the next to last rushing defense in the conference and we came out with an inexerienced QB passing early and often and still came close to pulling it out. We run the ball instead of pass and we score more often and their offense would have sat on pine keeping them from scoring as much.

[hink4769]

I'm just wondering what teams we could lose too and people could look back and say, you know what, I can live with that loss? Really, we should (and are) favored in every game we play, but to expect an undefeated season is a bit unrealistic.

[Collier11]

to expect to be undefeated is somewhat realistic IMHO, but to act like we have the worst coaches and players when we do happen to lose is kind of not realistic

[BigRedJed]

HopeSpringsEternal, enjoy a nice long vacation for namecalling. The rest of you, enjoy a different thread. I think most of us have grown tired of this one.

*click*