For those of you defending Bob Stoops [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

Socrefbek

1/3/2008, 10:18 PM

and bashing Wilson ...

Quote from another board. (BTW. Miami won MNC with multiple coaches and it looks like LSU is getting ready to do the same. We should not let John Blake cripple us with fear. He was an abberation)

Bro,

I hear what you're saying, but if that really is the case, it is tragic. KN's knees have nothing to do with J Dub's knees. We now have the depth at QB to run these kids out there and if they get hurt, plug the next one in.

Bob is simply too conservative in this day and age. One more thing... those of you calling for KW's head are TOTALLY off base. Please make NO mistake about it. Bob defines the scope of KW's offense. If KW were left to his druthers, KN would be the starting QB and we'd be running a variant of WVU offense we saw last night. In fact, after talking with someone close to the program this morning, I can tell you that KW had to lobby Bob HARD to get DM in the "WildHog" formation this year and after seeing it, Bob told KW to put it away (despite some initial success).

Sorry to break the news, but Bob is the issue, not KW.

I have not talked to KW personally, so I don't know 'bout his career plans.

However, as someone noted in another post, our offense has progressively gotten more conservative since Leach left. I mean heck, look at the offense Mangino runs at KU. It is even more open, aggressive, and risk laden than our offense was when he was the OC at OU. Look at the offensive philosophy of KW at NW and where he learned offense... the spread option is in his DNA. He knows how to run it just as well as Rich Rod, Belotti, and the young Paterno (Jay I think). In fact, KW knows the spread offense better than the one we currently have in place... yet we don't run it. Hummmmmm. Do you see the trend here? I wonder why these events have unfolded as they have (rhetorical question)? Come on.

I'm not going to name my source, but have I EVER come on here (or the old Tulsaworld board) at anytime over the past 12 years and written something that turned out not to be true? And Oh BTW, Bob and Mark Mangino also had many disagreements on offensive philosophies, which was a contributing factor to Mark leaving. Something happened to Bob after Mike Leach left. Don't know if he figured out how to defend Leach's spread and then figured it wasn't worthy or what... but the change is noticable and documented.

:pop:

rubyspirit

1/3/2008, 10:27 PM

Aha. More are seeing the light. It's good to find people who think for themselves, and see clearly what is happening.

Curly Bill

1/3/2008, 10:29 PM

Interesting read. Thanks for posting.

Octavian

1/3/2008, 10:29 PM

Well given this shocking new insight...although its from an anonymous poster from another board with no link and with no documentation....

Obviously the answer is to fire Stoops immediately and usher in the new Kevin Wilson era in Norman. The Spread is the answer to all things football related (just ask Missouri) and Stoops hasn't really done anything in his first 9 years anyway.

I predict 5 straight National Championships with our offensive mastermind, Kevin Wilson, at the helm. It's just too bad we ran off our previous tactical genius, Chuck Long....he could've won 6 or 7 straight.

bobnurse

1/3/2008, 10:56 PM

i could see some validity to it

rhombic21

1/3/2008, 11:02 PM

I can see the validity to Bob not wanting to run a spread offense at OU anymore. Doesn't mean Bob is wrong. We have the athletes that we should be able to line up and dominate in a pro-style offense -- if our offensive line can learn how to move around a little bit and actually block some people in space. Look at what USC and Georgia did in their bowl games. Ohio State used that approach to get to the NC game (their second in a row and third in the past 6 years).

MI Sooner

1/3/2008, 11:07 PM

I've often thought that the primary weakness of the spread option was the risk of injury to the QB (ask Pat White). Having multiple capable QBs definitely makes the offense a more attractive option. I have no idea if Nichol is capable, though. Frankly, I think Bradford is only an above-average QB at this point. Very similar to Colt McCoy, in that he came into about as easy a situation (not that it's ever really easy) as you could ask for.

I have always wondered why OU's offense doesn't more closely resemble Northwestern's offense, just because I figure Wilson was hired to install it. It sure makes the shotgun running game more effective if the QB is at least a threat to run.

KC//CRIMSON

1/3/2008, 11:10 PM

Got this in an email. I'm sure it came from one of the OU boards...

Bob Stoops and the BIG 10 Offensive mind set.

In 2000, we lined up in the Shotgun and threw the ball on first down more
often then not. When we ran the ball, we would hand the ball off to the slot man in motion. Our WRs regularly carried the ball 3-5 times each game. The FB, Seth Littrell, got carries. Against KSU in KC that year, we ran the option on 4th and 1 with an injured passing QB with a Big 12 title and national title on the line. We ran the hook and ladder play against Nebraska in Norman. We had a sophisticated pass-first based spread offense, and our running game, although not dominant (Quentin had maybe one 100 yard rushing performance that year, against Rice), was varied and made the opposing defense think and gameplan for multiple threats and multiple types of plays.

The 2000 team did not have a single offensive player that lasted more than 4 years in the NFL.

Now, seven years later, our offense makes Jon Cooper's Ohio State's offenses look like the 49ers from the 1980s. We've gotten way too simplistic in our scheme on offense.

With a spread offense, we went 2-1 in BCS bowls. A spread passing attack in 2000, a spread rushing attack in 2002, and a 7 point loss on the road to LSU with a coaching disruption and a QB with a sprained foot and a broken hand. Since we've invested in this I formation smash mouth run the ball to set up the playaction pass offense, we've lost three straight BCS bowls in horrendous fashion, whether by blowout (USC) or inferior program (Boise) or both (WVU). Our first half offenses have been abysmal in those games. AD gets 50 yards in regulation against USC and Boise. We have 10 yards rushing at halftime against WVU--and our best running play in 1st half last night was a shotgun running play for 11 yards. (And btw, what the heck are we doing running a play action pass on 3rd and 16? A play action pass is time consuming. The QB goes through his reads two seconds after the snap, after reorienting himself after the play fake. Why can't we have a normal 3 step drop passing attack, if we insist on an I formation offense?)

Our offensive scheme is too easy to defend with a month of preparation. Its too easy to predict. Whether its USC shouting out our plays at the line of scrimmage, or WVU defenders saying "They ran pretty much what we expected", its the offense. The "I-back" mentality has hurt, not helped our chances in BCS games. 3 straight losses, 3 straight bad BCS offensive performances, prove that.

You can have the best O-line and the best RB in the country, but in this era of parity and run blitzes, the smash mouth mentality is dead. The great BCS bowl winning running teams of the modern era either A) run from a spread attack (UT in 05, UF in 06, WVU in 07), or B) throw the ball to set up the run (USC).

I'm a believer that iron sharpens iron, but our offense feeds our defense playdoh in practice. In 2000, we could defend the pass because our defense saw one of the most sophisticated passing attacks in practice each day. It was prepared for shotgun running plays, because it saw Q take shotgun handoffs in practice each day. Now, our defense is well prepared to defend I formation running plays on first and second down, but is flummoxed when the opposing FB gets a carry or the QB rolls left and throws to the middle of the field--because such deviations from the 1980s Big 10 mentality are, well, deviations from what the defense sees each week in practice.

When was the last time an OU FB got a carry? 2001? 2000?!? Would it hurt to shake things up and have someone other that the deep back take a handoff, whether its the FB or the Slot WR in motion? Give the opposing defense something else to prepare for (and think about during the game) other than "Blitz the tailback, blitz the tailback"? And, in the process, challenge our defense in practice to be aware of different options of attack that the opposing offense might take. It's not like Iglesias needs 10 carries a game. But maybe 2, just to punish the opposing defense for teeing off on the I-back, and thus help open things up for our feature back.

Despite the (dramatic) improvement of talent since 2002, our scheming has regressed to mediocrity. We used to be on the cutting edge of coaching--throwing anything against the wall to see if it stuck, and in the process, giving opposing teams a lot to digest when preparing to face OU. Now, its an easy month of preparation for what we try to do, because we try to do so little. In the spring, Stoops needs to go back to what worked for him--a spread attack. We have the coaching staff in place--Wilson and Patton were spread goes at NW, Heupel's a spread QB, Gundy's formative years as a coach were as much under Mangino and Leach as they were under Watson Brown's multiple attack. Our O-line is a spread oriented offensive line--the fatter the o-line, the more shotgun you need to run. Fatties are towers that slow down a pass rush, but in the run game are about as effective as a battering ram going up against a chariot.

Thanks to Rhett Bomar, we are not credited with a bowl win since January 1st, 2003. The War in Iraq has lasted longer than our last BCS bowl win, our last official bowl win. That day, we threw the ball for 300 yards and our RB had over a 100 yards--in the shotgun, spread offense. We need to get back to that. 4-5 or 3-5, however you rank the Holiday Bowl...not good. Not nationally competitive. 4 out of 5 bowl losses.

Oh, and as a side note, and its not like we were the only team facing adversity last night--WVU lacked a HC, a playcaller, and a star running back last night. If we play the "We didn't have ____ " card, WVU could do the same. And Washington State, with Price going to Alabama and Gesser 65%. And FSU, sans Snoop Minis and Mark Richt thinking about his new Georgia gig.

soonerboy_odanorth

1/3/2008, 11:29 PM

I don't know about all that. I don't care.

I do know it took Barry Switzer 9 very frustrating years between his '75 National Championship and his '85 National Championship... where we lost to USC, where we lost to Ohio State, where we lost to Stanford, where we lost to Arizona State, where we lost to Washington, where we lost to WEST VIRGINIA, and where we lost to Texas (multiple times), and even where we lost to those loveable LoSuRs. And that many people wanted his head, and were asking why they hell we weren't recruiting and installing a whiz-bang passing offense like BYWho was running, and Stanford, and West Virginia with this lanky funky mullet-wearing QB named Jeff Hostetler.

Well... he almost went there. Troy Aikman. He was going to take a shot at it. Don't forget that when Troy went down against Miami, he was out-passing that hack, Vinnie, that Miami had under center. (That's sarcasm, in case your filters aren't set properly.) Then when by fortune it came to nut-cuttin' time he went back to what he knew best, and with the right combination of athletes won the whole damn thing without argument when it was all said and done.

And a mere two years after that he may have had his very best, most athletically talented, superstar team. Yes, I mean better than lil' Joe, the Selmons, Cumby, and Shoate. You look at both sides of the ball, top to bottom, and it was a fierce football team. One for the ages. Until they got their asses handed to them in the Orange Bowl by Miami. Who by the way were probably a better running team with Highsmith than they were a passing team with Walsh.

I'll use one other comparison that I'm not happy about using, because the similarities, minus one early and possibly very lucky national championship, make me worried that I am going to have to wait a very long time for what I long to see. And that is a 3-4-5 year domination of all of college football that if we could replicate it would put us (once again mind you, you lurking Nebbish fans, you) in the record books:

We like to make fun of Dr. Tom and his record against Switzer. Dr. Tom fielded perhaps 2 or 3 of the top 10 teams ever. And possibly two of those ocurred in his 22nd, 23rd, 24th, and 25th years at Nebraska. Well, I guess that behind-the-times-with-his-Neanderthal-running-attack-with-a-nasty-defense fossil somehow accomplished all of that in spite of himself. And look, look, his record is worthless because of all those high profile bowl games he lost in between to those fancified passing attacks of the Florida State's and Miami's of the world. Right? Right!?!?

I'm not happy with the outcome last night in the Fiesta Bowl. None of us are. I guaran-freaking-tee you Bob isn't. But Bob is an ultra-competitive uber-professional who will come to a point where he has seen it and done it all and comes up with the right mix and everything will fall in place for him and his teams. (In case some of you n00bs are wondering, this year was very reminiscent of '84. Look it up and get yourselves educated.)

You better check yourselves and cosider if you want OU to be on the receiving end of one of his teams that does that rather than being with the team that does that.

National Championships are special. We have seven. We are beyond spoiled. There is only one team since the AP est. '36 and UPI/Coaches est. '50 polls started that has won more "legitimate" National Championships: Notre Dame. There are only two others that have won as many: Alabama and USC. Even if Ohio State, those mighty mighty Bucks, win this year... they'll still trail us by one. LSU, by FOUR.

You folks, and everyone else need to take a freakin' chill pill. Times they have a-changed, are a-changin', and will continue to change... but not that much. Often quipped by the King, and backed by just about all of his mentors, contemporaries, and emulators: It ain't the alignment, it's the alignees.

Lest you think I'm stuck in the past, ask yourselves: Are we competing, year-in and year-out for conference and NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS?

Yes, yes we are...

with BOB STOOPS!

Some of you Chinamen are unbelievable. You can eat an obscene amount of rice.*

*Look it up before you bash, PC police.

KC//CRIMSON

1/3/2008, 11:32 PM

I don't know about all that. I don't care. Keep on drinking the kool aid.

Post like this pop up every time we get drilled in a bowl game. Enough is enough.

Time to deal with reality.

Curly Bill

1/3/2008, 11:36 PM

Thanks for that fantabulous post KC. I think it hit the proverbial nail right on the head.

Octavian

1/3/2008, 11:39 PM

soonerboy_odanorth just made the correct reference

AzianSooner

1/3/2008, 11:47 PM

With Bob Stoops, We will continue to dominant the Big 12 and losing BSC bowl game.

soonerinabilene

1/3/2008, 11:54 PM

You are so correct. That post totally makes me change my mind. How could I not have seen the light before.:rolleyes:

meoveryouxinfinity

1/4/2008, 12:03 AM

Would someone compile a list of D1 teams running the spread with a better record than us this year?

soonerboy_odanorth

1/4/2008, 12:04 AM

I don't know about all that. I don't care. Keep on drinking the kool aid.

Post like this pop up every time we get drilled in a bowl game. Enough is enough.

Time to deal with reality.

B*llsh*t. Posts like yours pop up with equal and sometimes moreso knee-jerk, gutless, crybaby frequency. And again, I don't blame anyone for being p*ss*d. I am too. There are things I would like to see improved that should help secure a big-time bowl win.

But to review:

We got drilled by Arkansas.

We got drilled by Arizona State.

We got drilled by Washington.

Not to mention the Osborne comparison. Completely valid. And I'll emphasize I don't like that option, but none of us gets that choice.

That's a lot of historical reality there. I'm sorry you're having trouble dealing with translating it into current perspective.

But thankfully, enough people over time have been willing to continue to drink the Kool Aid.

You think Stoops is not going to try and improve? You think he and staff won't dissect it top to bottom. You think you know better? You think you know of the correct coaching hire that does?

Then throw whatever weight you have around and try and get the change made. Break out the money, honey, raise your voice to the heavens. That's your right.

But what if you don't quite know it all?

Not sayin' I do, but I can't think of another team or coach that has won 5 Big XII Championships in addition to a National Championship in the past 12 years.

r5TPsooner

1/4/2008, 12:15 AM

I know that OU got drilled last night but didn't Stoops & Co. just win a 2nd straight Big XII Championship and become the first Big XII school to do that?

Some of you act like we didn't do a damned thing this year.

soonerboy_odanorth

1/4/2008, 12:17 AM

One more thing...

Back to the original spirit of the post... I wouldn't bash either Stoops or KW.

The premise of the quote is 100% wrong!

Can anyone tell me this offense in the last two years with KW is MORE conservative than what Long was trotting out?

That is a statement made by someone who hasn't been paying very close attention to either play-calling, personnel, or schemes.

rhombic21

1/4/2008, 12:20 AM

What seems to be getting lost in all this is the fact that the offense did score 28 points, which includes 2 missed extra points. We also kicked 3 FGs from deep inside their territory.

I would venture to say that the problem last night was only partially on the offensive side of the ball. The offense played well enough in the second half that we could have very easily come back and won the game handily if the defense would have made some stops.

I'm a lot more concerned about our recent lack of discipline/playmaking on defense than I am about our offensive scheme. I agree that our scheme has at times lacked some imagination (not necessarily needing to completely revamp, but maybe open things up a little more, like we did early in the season when we were putting up 50+ on everybody), but the fact is that our offense has not been the problem in the last two bowl games. We gave up 43 points last year to Boise and 48 points this year to WVU. And 55 in '04 in our last title appearance.

BTW, how many points did our offense put up on FSU and Arkansas back in '00 and '01 when we ran the spread?

Defensively, we need to be a lot more consistent. Not just in the bowl games, overall. We looked downright dominant at times this year (Big 12 Title game), but we also looked pretty bad at other times (last night, various parts of other games). Way too many busted assignments, broken tackles, and overall undisciplined play. Guys completely out of position.

sozo

1/4/2008, 12:28 AM

Very good post soonerboy_odanorth !

KC//CRIMSON

1/4/2008, 12:36 AM

B*llsh*t. Posts like yours pop up with equal and sometimes moreso knee-jerk, gutless, crybaby frequency. And again, I don't blame anyone for being p*ss*d. I am too. There are things I would like to see improved that should help secure a big-time bowl win.

But to review:

We got drilled by Arkansas.

We got drilled by Arizona State.

We got drilled by Washington.

Not to mention the Osborne comparison. Completely valid. And I'll emphasize I don't like that option, but none of us gets that choice.

That's a lot of historical reality there. I'm sorry you're having trouble dealing with translating it into current perspective.

But thankfully, enough people over time have been willing to continue to drink the Kool Aid.

You think Stoops is not going to try and improve? You think he and staff won't dissect it top to bottom. You think you know better? You think you know of the correct coaching hire that does?

Then throw whatever weight you have around and try and get the change made. Break out the money, honey, raise your voice to the heavens. That's your right.

But what if you don't quite know it all?

Not sayin' I do, but I can't think of another team or coach that has won 5 Big XII Championships in addition to a National Championship in the past 12 years.

So how many more bowl losses can you stomach before you stop posting responses like this? Four? Five? Etc....

It's the same old crap over and over (not from you) just in general after a loss. And it's not like OU is losing these bowl games by small margins, they are getting flat out destroyed.

KC//CRIMSON

1/4/2008, 12:59 AM

Would someone compile a list of D1 teams running the spread with a better record than us this year?

You're kidding right?

Missouri
Kansas
West Virginia

for starters.

Redgiant2

1/4/2008, 01:25 AM

The kool-aid is flowing freely with some of you. The depth of confusion and incompetence on the defensive side of the ball is reprehensible. OU is the swiss cheese of D1 and with each passing year we look more and more like Lloyd Carr is being channeled. If that is fine with you feel free to root for OSU. I'm sure they'd welcome you with open arms. For whatever reason this is happening it needs to change because the current staff will never win a NC.

RedstickSooner

1/4/2008, 01:31 AM

I'm pretty sure when Bob was a kid, a turnover beat him up and took his lunch money.

When Wilson was hired, I was licking my chops to see what he'd do as our OC -- his rep, his background, is as a hell-bent, aggressive coach with a wide-open attack.

So, like most of you, I've been a bit puzzled by his style as an OC. I always thought maybe he just mellowed -- or perhaps his rep for aggression was bunk. However, the notion that Bob is reining him in... I certainly don't see this as being such a stretch to believe.

Octavian

1/4/2008, 01:41 AM

The depth of confusion and incompetence on the defensive side of the ball is reprehensible. OU is the swiss cheese of D1....

Check the stats. OU was very solid defensively this year with the exception of a couple quarters and the bowl game. I realize that's not good enough but its not "swiss cheese."

Having 3 starters out in the Fiesta doesn't help matters much. And we're talking about Reggie, Holmes, and Granger. That's a missing DTAK and 2 in the secondary....which is HUGE against a spread option running attack.

The sentiment that bowl prep needs to change....the notion that we have been undisciplined....the accusation that we need to match our road emotional level with the one we display in Norman....that's all valid.

Saying a staff with 90 wins in 8 years (STILL the most this decade), 5 Big XII titles in 8 years, 6 BCS appearances in 8 years, 3 NCG appearances in 8 years, and a National Title.....will NEVER win another championship....thats asinine.

Check the roster. Look who we have coming back. Look who we've brought in during the meantime. We're still loaded and we're not going anywhere. Sam won't be a freshman next year and we return a whole lot of the talent thats won back-to-back Big XII titles.

We'll be fine if we don't slit our own wrists.

KC//CRIMSON

1/4/2008, 01:46 AM

Check the stats. OU was very solid defensively this year with the exception of a couple quarters and the bowl game. I realize that's not good enough but its not "swiss cheese."

Having 3 starters out in the Fiesta doesn't help matters much. And we're talking about Reggie, Holmes, and Granger. That's a missing DTAK and 2 in the secondary....which is HUGE against a spread option running attack.

While this is true, OU has given up an average of 48.7 points in the last three BCS bowls. And there is only one constant.

OU Adonis

1/4/2008, 01:47 AM

And a mere two years after that he may have had his very best, most athletically talented, superstar team. Yes, I mean better than lil' Joe, the Selmons, Cumby, and Shoate. You look at both sides of the ball, top to bottom, and it was a fierce football team. One for the ages. Until they got their asses handed to them in the Orange Bowl by Miami. Who by the way were probably a better running team with Highsmith than they were a passing team with Walsh.

So losing by 6 points and being outgained by mighty miami by 30 yards is getting your *** handed to you?

My god what was last night?

76soonergrad

1/4/2008, 01:49 AM

So how many more bowl losses can you stomach before you stop posting responses like this? Four? Five? Etc....

It's the same old crap over and over (not from you) just in general after a loss. And it's not like OU is losing these bowl games by small margins, they are getting flat out destroyed.

So do we expect to be in the hunt for NC most years? An unfortunate pattern has emerged, getting blown out in BCS games in multiple years.

Is Stoops accountable? I expected more than this.

Looking at winners WV And KU, they don't seem to have a lot of 5-star players. Their common denominator is heart and desire.

OU had it in 2000. Where'd it go?

Our offensive line could not move their feet last night. A banner game for penalties. Holding. Looking at the talent on paper, we should have done better. Undisciplined play=lack of coaching.

Then there's the play calling. We brought it up to 15-20 & then the onside kick. and, go for 2, go for 2. Even early on, it was obvious that WV came to play.

Okay, enough rant. Where does the staff go from here? Is there anyone who can discuss this with Bob? Like an authority type? Don't need to let him go, just wondering what adjustments he's willing to make.

Where was the identity? The schematic?

Our players are better than they looked. As another poster put it, maybe we need to get 1 & 2 star players and mold them into greatness. There are good coaches on our staff. Get hungry again.

________________________

Redgiant2

1/4/2008, 01:52 AM

Check the stats. OU is ranked 67th in pass defense and didn't exactly play a ferocious schedule. And even in those wins they still made the same damn mistakes they made last night. They made them all year long and they've been making them for a few years now. You quote bull**** stats because you can't see the forest for the trees and the same players you seem to think are going to make a difference next year won't because they'll have the same problems they've always had because nobody is teaching them a ****ing thing. And you coming on here yammering on about missing players and we didn't have this or that ain't exactly the epitome of clear thinking pal. If I remember right WV was missing a thing or two themselves and seemed quite happy handing your boys their collective asses for all 4 ****ing quarters. Now it seems to me one of us might be asinine but it sure as **** isn't me.

Octavian

1/4/2008, 02:01 AM

While this is true, OU has given up an average of 48.7 points in the last three BCS bowls. And there is only one constant.

No argument there.

The bowl prep needs a radical change. Plain and simple. I'm not sure if there are any satisfactory answers right now. The loss last night was, IMO, the worst of the 4 BCS losses when put in its context.

But the fact remains: the Stoops regime give us a better chance of accomplishing our goals than anyone else could at the moment.

We'll be a much more experienced team next year. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if we came back in '08 and played for all the marbles again. What else can we do except come back next year and try to make another run?

CORNholio

1/4/2008, 02:04 AM

CORNholio

1/4/2008, 02:07 AM

OU is becoming Texas 2000-2003. A bunch of 5 star recruits with no heart.

Octavian

1/4/2008, 02:12 AM

OU...didn't exactly play a ferocious schedule.

wrong, Opey. Our defense played more highly ranked offenses than any team in the country.

You quote bull**** stats because you can't see the forest for the trees and the same players you seem to think are going to make a difference next year won't because they'll have the same problems they've always had because nobody is teaching them a ****ing thing.

yeah...those stat things are always so meaningless. If you're that upset, man...just don't go to the games. That shouldn't be a problem since you probably couldn't find Norman with a map on a sober day.

insuranceman_22

1/4/2008, 02:12 AM

One thing to think about for a second. In Stoops' earlier days, yes with Leach and Mangino...we were more of an "air" team. When the running really got going was when a fella dubbed AD made it on the scene. Q had his moments, but nobody new if we were going to bomb away or hand it to him.

As for soonerboy, dammit I would love to have J. Holieway run the spread like White does......that would've been exciting. 85 was an odd year with Aikmen going out and JH leading to the promised land.....hope your right on that comparison (not wanting Bradford to get hurt, but going to the promised land!)

Leroy Lizard

1/4/2008, 02:21 AM

Bob should hire a speach-writer.

Oh yeah, that's what we need. Better speeches. :rolleyes:

Crucifax Autumn

1/4/2008, 04:00 AM

I'm all about better speeches...It always works in the sports movies! lmao

Sooner_Bob

1/4/2008, 09:26 AM

Win one for the children!

wishbonesooner

1/4/2008, 09:30 AM

"You think Stoops is not going to try and improve? You think he and staff won't dissect it top to bottom. You think you know better? You think you know of the correct coaching hire that does?"

OK, but I'd have expected Bob to dissect what went wrong after the first flat, uninspired bowl loss, not wait until it happened FOUR times to decide something ain't right. Is our staff a bunch of great coaches, or just great recruiters? I think there's a definite difference.

sooneron

1/4/2008, 10:04 AM

OU comes out flat unmotivated uninspired 2-3 times a year and every freaking bowl game since Mike Stoops left the staff. I don't question the schemes so much. It is the attitude of the players. The total lack of desire that creeps up at the most inoppurtune times, every year. OU is a classic Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde type team. When they have thier heart in it then they can beat anybody; when they go through the motions and drag *** then they almost lose to Iowa State. It is a coaches job #1 to motivate his players. Bob should hire a speach-writer.
Yeah we were never playing uninspired in 02. :rolleyes:
Face it, EVERY team comes out a couple of times a year uninspired. USC did it and it bit them in the ***. LSU did it and they lost. These are flippin teenagers and 20 year olds. They are going to come out flat from time to time. It's the staff's job to smack them into focus. These issues usually come up with young teams, which we are.

Someone please stop the M Stoops madness. He's not the answer to everything.

OUmillenium

1/4/2008, 10:10 AM

and bashing Wilson ...

Quote from another board. (BTW. Miami won MNC with multiple coaches and it looks like LSU is getting ready to do the same. We should not let John Blake cripple us with fear. He was an abberation)

:pop:

I totally agree with this post and have been thinking this for some time. I have no sources, just my thoughts. Glad someone else has seen the same thing. Even my wife thinks OU plays way to vanilla game in and game out.

Rock Hard Corn Frog

1/4/2008, 10:44 AM

I totally agree with this post and have been thinking this for some time. I have no sources, just my thoughts. Glad someone else has seen the same thing. Even my wife thinks OU plays way to vanilla game in and game out.

I tend to agree with the original post as well, at least in as much that I've always thought that people that have been critical of some of KW's play calling probably forget that he is answerable to Stoops and is certainly reigned in some. It has at least been my perception that KW is not as conservative based on his previous track record as he has seemed at OU.

I guess it was nice when we pulled out all the stops, lined up in the Ninja, ran a lot of WR reverses etc. It would be nice if we could do that without entirely losing our identity. Funny that with Leach we brought the spread to the Big 12 and we are about the only team that doesn't run it anymore.

On the other hand we have to admit that generally speaking that a solid conservative gameplan usually works.

In the end it isn't like Stoops or KW have to go. In fact I'm sure most of us really don't want that to happen. Ideally maybe while the coaches and players do some soul searching that maybe Stoops allows KW a little more flexibility in the future.

cheezyq

1/4/2008, 11:00 AM

I don't think Kevin Wilson is a problem, either. The one thing that I like about him is that he does seem to make some good halftime adjustments. Against Iowa State this year, we came out and ruled the 2nd half with brute physicality. KW made some adjustments to get Sam outside the tackle box against WV, and things started to open up from there. At TT, we were abysmal in the first half, but once Halzle calmed down, we were making a nice comeback.

The problem with this team all year (and every year, lately) is that it is inconsistent on defense. We'll dominate and disrupt the offense in some games, and whiff on tackles and blow coverages in others. We've certainly got the athletes on defense to dominate, but we're out of position a lot. The speed of our D makes up for that sometimes, but in other games (WV, CU, TT) it doesn't.

But back to the offense. I don't blame Bob if he doesn't want to run a full-on spread offense. The reality is that it would be hard to compete with Ohio State, USC, and LSU for recruits when you're running a gimmick offense that doesn't have any traction in the NFL. The highest-tier athletes only go to college for the chance at the NFL, and if an Adrian Peterson-type player sees that we're running a spread, it's less likely we win that recruiting battle.

But to blame the offense for our Bowl woes in the first place is a big mistake. It's been our defensive breakdowns that have led to our poor performance in the bowls. Here's my point:

2000/2001 Orange Bowl:
Beat FSU 13-2. The ONLY points scored against us were off a punting error.

2001/2002 Cotton Bowl:
Beat Arkansas 10-3.

2002/2003 Rose Bowl:
Beat Washington State 34-14. Wow, we allowed 14 points, that's not that great, right? Wrong. Both of WSU's TDs were scored in garbage time in the 4th quarter.

2003/2004 Sugar Bowl:
Lost to LSU 21-14. Part of the blame goes on the offense in this one for turning over the ball in our own territory.

2004/2005 Rose Bowl:
TGOWWDNS. Can't blame the offense for this one.

2005/2006 Holiday Bowl:
Won 17-14 against an Oregon offense that was playing with a backup QB. Offense struggled with Bomar at the helm, but was just good enough.

2006/2007 Fiesta Bowl:
Lost 43-42. Our defense gave up numerous huge plays and couldn't stop anything that included misdirection.

2007/2008 Fiesta Bowl:
Lost 48-28. The defense is out of position all night long, can't stop any misdirection or play action plays, and gives up over 300 yards rushing.

Spread or no spread, I don't care what we run on offense. I just want to get back to the days when NO ONE could score on us.

MextheBulldog

1/4/2008, 11:00 AM

What did Switzer say: "You're never as good as they say you are when you win, and you're never as bad as they say you are when you lose."

TripleOption14

1/4/2008, 11:05 AM

First off who cares if he's a conservative guy!! Jim Tressel is the MOST conservative play caller i have EVER seen!!!! The difference is EXECUTION!!!!!
All Tressel does is punt and play D and win the field position battle. That is the recipe for EVERY Ohio St. win since he's arrived. That is as conservative as it gets my friends. And you know what it WORKS so i have no problem w/ the conservative approach.

My problem w/ the staff is I think they've gotten too "Hollywood." Everyone says we fans are spoiled well I think the staff has gotten just as spoiled. They ALL need to get that hunger and fire back. In order to do this one needs to get grounded again. They need to forget about all the money they have, forget about the big house, forget about the nice cars, forget about the ego, forget about your name. Go back to your roots and start working again like when you were a GA coach and an Asst. coach. Go back to when you had to spend countless upon countless hours in the film room breaking down tendencies for someone else and were getting paid chicken feed for it. Go back to when you used to tell yourself "this is what it takes to get a top job so i'm gonna put in the hours." Do all the spreadsheet and tendencies stuff that YOU used to do and have now handed off to some other GA or asst. who is HUNGERY like you used to be. Go back to a cramped office that you to have to work out of but got the BEST work done.

This is what the staff has lost if you ask me.

The_Red_Patriot

1/4/2008, 11:21 AM

We just need to change our bowl preperations.

In every bowl game under Stoops including FSU we come out very vanillia.

How bout we try and do something big and go for a big strike to open up the game?

We are Oklahoma which puts a huge target on our backs. If a team can get a glimpse of momentum, they will just feed and feed and feed.

That and our coaches really need to remember what kind of offense we ran that got us to the game and stop getting in desperation mode.

Running the Spread inside the 5? what? What? This is what kept us out of the Tech game. We can run pretty well, especially for 5 yards and we also run a very effective PA pass in those situations and find a TE wide open in the endzone. I can't remember the last time we tried that reverse play where we fake it to the HB and a WR or RB lined up in the slot gets it.

Remember what we do....

soonerhubs

1/4/2008, 11:39 AM

I understand the coaches are partially to blame, but I think more blame should be placed on the run stuffing defensive line man that decided to become a petty thief and the bad luck with injuries and sickness leading up to the bowl game.

West Virginia lost to Pitt because their QB was injured in the game.

Our QB is a Freshman who will improve, and I feel our O-line will get that much better next season.

If MK was healthy in this game, the run game would have been more established as the secondary would've been kept more honest.

If DeMarco Murray was healthy, who knows how many of those returns would've been TDs.

Bad luck happens, but it doesn't mean there is a need for a change of the guard.

You put Snoop Minnis in the 01 Orange Bowl and the results may have been very different, and I think the same can be said with Lendy Holmes, Reggie Smith, and Granger. This wasn't the same team that destroyed Missouri because many key players were either injured, ineligible, or klepto.

Enough rumination, the season's over and how about we praise the accomplishments of this team.

starrca23

1/4/2008, 11:59 AM

Okay, everyone else has had their little rant in the aftermath of the game, so I guess I will take time to have mine.

1. The slightest hint that we should get rid of Bob Stoops is crazy. 5 Big XII titles and a MNC. I dare someone to give me a list of coaches we could actually get our hands on that could do better. You can't!

2. Think clearly...West Virgina and Boise State will never again in the history of their programs play to the level of perfection they did in their respective bowl games. Ex. Pat White's last td throw or the statue of liberty. Give them credit for playing well. It seemed in both games that the cat and mouse games between Offensive and defensive coordinators that they always guessed right and we always guessed wrong.

3.Darned if you do...darned if you don't: We rolled Missouri...the offense was on point. Why would you change a game plan that beat the no. 1 team in the nation? If you do people call you stupid...if you don't the other team knows exactly what to prepare for.

4. Lastly, everyone understands (except Alabama fans) that there is only one national champ every year right? Do you seriously think Bob should win it for us every year?

I know we are all upset at loosing, but look at the facts.

Pigface1

1/4/2008, 12:01 PM

The difference is EXECUTION!!!!!

I agree 100%. Execution and a lack of motivation. You could see Lofton trying to get people fired up on the field. I don't get it, they just don't play like they're motivated in bowl games, and a couple others here and there.

They weren't last year vs Boise St until the second half. Caught back up, but by then, it was too late.

Stoops has always said he's not much for "ra ra," but hell, just fake it. . it's not like it'd hurt. Someone needs to light a fire under the team's azz.

sooneron

1/4/2008, 12:39 PM

Bob looked like his mind was elsewhere during the game two nights ago. Check the tape. If he wasn't arguing a call, he was standing there with his arms folded and staring. Not glaring, but just staring. He wasn't even talking very much. Communication is key. Watch him in earlier games, there was fight and intensity in his eyes. People usually soften as they age and get more comfortable, maybe Bob should have to go live in the Motel 6 on I35 for a while.

1890MilesToNorman

1/4/2008, 01:18 PM

Is Bob's record good enough for you?

--------------------
Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl Coaches# AP°
Oklahoma Sooners (Big 12 Conference) (1999 — present)
1999 Oklahoma 7–5 5–3 T–2nd (South) L 25–27 Independence
2000 Oklahoma 13–0 8–0 1st (South) W 13–2 Orange † 1 1
2001 Oklahoma 11–2 6–2 2nd (South) W 10–3 Cotton 6 6
2002 Oklahoma 12–2 6–2 T–1st (South) W 34–14 Rose † 5 5
2003 Oklahoma 12–2 8–0 1st (South) L 14–21 Sugar † 3 3
2004 Oklahoma 12–1 8–0 1st (South) L 19–55 Orange † 3 3
2005 Oklahoma 8–4 6–2 2nd (South) W 17–14 Holiday 22 22
2006 Oklahoma 11–3 7–1 1st (South) L 43–42OT Fiesta † 11 11
2007 Oklahoma 11–3 6–2 1st (South) L 48-28 Fiesta † TBA TBA
Oklahoma: 96–21 59–12
Total: 96–21
--------------------

It's good enough for me. He needs to figure out how to approach the bowl games, I don't know how he prepares the team for bowl games but whatever he is doing just ain't working. Bob Stoops record is very good, I don't expect perfection in a game where perfection is not attainable.

Doged

1/4/2008, 01:19 PM

Rock Hard Corn Frog

1/4/2008, 01:50 PM

This is a fairly confusing thread.

We have one of the highest scoring offenses in the nation, but some fans want to complain about it.

We have one of the nation's best defenses in points allowed, but some fans want to complain about it.

We lose more bowl games than we win and in most of them look completly unready to play, but only a couple of fans want to complain about the lack of team preparation prior to bowl games.

Yup... makes perfect sense! :D

Think of it like your favorite Movie/TV series ever but you don't like the ending.

Whatever we do in the regualr season seems to work real well. Whatever we do prior to the bowls doesn't. Are we doing the same thing? I don't know. I'm guessing no.

TUSooner

1/4/2008, 01:57 PM

I'm surposed and the venom on ths thread and the absolute certainty of some posters that they have THE answer, and it's either this one goes or that or whatever. But mostly I've seen some interesting stuff.
The dump Bob crowd need a helluva lot more bad stuff to happen before any sensible person would propose replacing the guy.
However, the idea that Bob is reining in the offense, if true, is a bit concerning. An offense should present as many credible threats to a defense as possible. Having said that, our track record isn't all that bad - esxcept for bowl games. Would a more varied attack help in these one-shot games where there's lots of time to prepare? I think so. But those who talk about fire and motivation and execution also have a point. You don't need a PhD in football to see when a team is undiscipilned, unmotivated, or confused.
I only hope that Bob is not too proud to consider anything that might make the team more successful. If that means giving KW a longer leash, let's do it.

The Maestro

1/4/2008, 01:57 PM

Think of it like your favorite Movie/TV series ever but you don't like the ending.

So does that mean the Fiesta Bowl highlight video will be to Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"?

http://blogs.indiewire.com/twhalliii/11tv-600.jpg

Leroy Lizard

1/4/2008, 01:59 PM

This is getting as nearly as irritating as some of my playoff threads.

First of all, how can we say that Bob has become too comfortable in his job? How do we even know that? Does anyone in here really know that his staff and he are not putting in the hours that they used to?

People are saying that the team was uninspired. Is there some sort of Inspir-o-meter that you can use to measure that? What did you see on the field that indicated the team didn't care who won? (And don't use the circular argument that our defensive ineptitude proves it -- defenses can suck for many reasons.)

Then people complain about the offensive scheme. Well, it was good enough to get us ranked #4 in the country and to the Fiesta Bowl.

Now we're talking about bowl preparation. Somehow, Bob isn't preparing his team correctly for bowl games. But why would you prepare for a bowl game any differently than any other game? What would YOU change?

1890MilesToNorman

1/4/2008, 02:07 PM

Bowl preparation. Like I stated above I do not know how the team is prepared before bowl games. I do know we are not having success in the bowl games. If you are not having success in one aspect of the season, it is time to evaluate how you approach it and maybe change a few things. What I don't know??

tbl

1/4/2008, 02:08 PM

I'm so confused....

sanantoniosooner

1/4/2008, 02:08 PM

This is getting as nearly as irritating as some of my playoff threads.
I wonder what the playoff lovers would say when we got eliminated in the first round?;)

All I know is the game sucked to watch, and it was our defense that made me want to puke. The Big12 Championship game against MU was the first game in forever that I felt like we wanted to hurt somebody rather than just ask them to cooperate with our desire to tackle them. I thought the things were back and then we got that crappy effort.

When they showed those stats of the last several scoring drives it was horrible to look at. 1,2, and 3 play scoring drives of 70 yards or more. Disgusting. Especially when you have guys in position that just don't make a play. Our guys weren't focussed. Blame it on who you want, but it was a team effort at sucking.

Leroy Lizard

1/4/2008, 02:11 PM

There are a lot of accusations being thrown around by angry fans with no real evidence to support them. And these same accusations are thrown out all over the country by the fans of any team that loses. It's always the same cliches:

Rule 1 -- Blame the playcalling.

"Our OC didn't call the right plays! I could predict every play before the ball was snapped! If only he had called the plays I wanted, we would have won! Waaah!"

Rule 2 -- Instead of crediting the other team, complain that your players didn't even try.

"Sniff. Someone needs to light a fire under our players' asses. They don't care anymore. Boo hoo hoo!"

Rule 3 -- While you're at it, blame the coaching staff for not working hard.

"Our coaches want to do nothing all day but count their money. They don't care about winning or losing anymore. Where's the fire?!?!? Where's the intensity?!?!"

Rule 4 -- It never hurts to accuse the head coach of keeping friends on the staff at the expense of the team.

"We wouldn't have this problem if the coach would only get rid of his assistant. But they are probably old buddies, and our coach cares more about his friends than us!!!"

Here are my reasons why we lost.

1. Too many players out. Injuries are sometimes tough to overcome. When you have five players out on defense, the defense is bound to play a little more poorly than usual. How much more poorly? That is very hard to predict. Sometimes it has no effect at all. And on a rare occasion, the defense even plays better. But often the results are disastrous. And we were also missing DeMarco Murray and Malcolm Kelly, two of our best players.

2. The offensive line had a little trouble with WVU's quickness. I think WVU took a different approach to their pass rush and the OL had a hard time adjusting. Maybe they are too big? I have no idea.

3. The two-point conversion and onside kick gave WVU a lot of momentum. We gambled, and we lost.

4. Bradford's passes were off just a touch in the first half, which led to field goals instead of touchdowns. (Overall, he played pretty well however.)

5. Some things are just inexplicable. You have 11 human beings on the field, and there is often no explanation as to why they play poorly. When I play golf, why do I sometimes do very well, and sometimes play like crap? I can't explain it. The same applies to football. How did Michigan lose to Appy State? How did USC lose to Stanford? Sometimes the explanations are just not there because there are none.

sanantoniosooner

1/4/2008, 02:15 PM

There is no doubt there hasn't been any fire, except for the MU game. I don't pretend to give an explanation for this, but anyone who doesn't see it isn't watching the games.

TUSooner

1/4/2008, 02:16 PM

Since I'm as qualified as the rest of y'all to coach OU from my desk chair(which is to say "not")... I think there has to be some change in bowl preparation. Maybe there's too much down time, or maybe not enough (my guess). Maybe there's not enough thought given to outsmarting the opposition by adding a few wrinkles or disrupting a few of our predicatble tendecies. That's where I would start.

I suspect that we would do better in a playoff, where our opponent would not have extra time to prepare, and we would not have time to do whatever it is we do that makes us suck in bowls. :)

Leroy Lizard

1/4/2008, 02:18 PM

There is no doubt there hasn't been any fire, except for the MU game.

Based on what? The number of gyrations performed by the players after big plays? The number of "Hey Mama"s spoken into the camera? What do you look for when you want to gauge their fire?

sanantoniosooner

1/4/2008, 02:24 PM

Based on what? The number of gyrations performed by the players after big plays? The number of "Hey Mama"s spoken into the camera? What do you look for when you want to gauge their fire?
How hard do they hit. Do they go for the arm tackle, or do they put a helmet on somebody? Do they whiff on tackles or are they dialed in?

It has nothing to do with celebration. If that's what you think, it explains why you don't get it.

MextheBulldog

1/4/2008, 02:29 PM

Great read from cfn.com - these guys are top notch in their analysis (usually).

Plays right into the current discussion...Just sayin - even outsiders notice something is off in the team's sideline demeanor.

"It would not be fair or accurate to say that Oklahoma is an underachieving program, because any school that regularly wins a power conference is putting together generally successful seasons and doing something right. (If you want an underachieving program in the Big 12, look to OU’s former rival, the Nebraska Cornhuskers. That’s underachieving.) However, when the discussion shifts and then surrounds the subject of national title worthiness, Oklahoma—once a regular player in the final game of the season (win or lose)—does deserve to be shouted off the stage. The Sooners are now immersed in a weird situation: the more they excel in the regular season, the more these bowl bombs boomerang back to embarrass them in the eyes of a nation fixated on national titles and nothing else.

When the regular season ended, Oklahoma—along with Georgia—was playing the best football of any team in the country, leading a lot of observers to think that the Sooners deserved to play for the national title. Had a plus-one system existed, Stoops and his players likely would have been in the mix. But after this humiliating loss, caused not just by West Virginia’s speed but also by a boatload of penalties and a shocking lack of emotion for 45 of this game’s 60 minutes (the third quarter being the exception, as was the case with Illinois against USC in the Rose Bowl), the Sooners just took themselves out of the great college football debate. What’s worse is that this talented team couldn’t even lose competitively and keep the proceedings close to the final gun.

It bears mentioning, in the wake of this loss, that OU flatly quit in the 2005 Orange Bowl against USC. After negative momentum began rolling downhill on that night in Miami, the Sooners allowed their shoulders to slump and sag against the Trojans. Wednesday, the scene looked stunningly similar in suburban Phoenix. Even when the Sooners scored to make this a 41-28 game with over 10 minutes remaining in the fourth quarter, one could see no life on the Oklahoma sideline. The body language of every OU athlete was dead and dormant, bereft of any spark or swagger. Sure enough, West Virginia would need only two snaps to immediately score a touchdown (on a 65-yard run by Devine, who weaved his way through a number of Sooners who just didn’t seem to be trying all that hard). Oklahoma might not have been able to win this game, but the Sooners didn’t even fight for 60 full minutes, and that’s the real shame of this Fiesta fiasco for the boys from Norman.

Bob Stoops has been nothing less than a magician throughout this decade when it comes to coaxing maximum effort out of his teams during the regular season. In bowls, however, Stoops just can’t seem to find a way to prevent his ballclubs from playing listless, body-snatched football after long layoffs. Not since the 2003 Rose Bowl (a win over Washington State) has an OU team acted like it really wanted to compete in a BCS bowl game. That’s a shocking yet undeniable reality for a still-successful program whose one big task is to defeat its postseason demons in future years. Oklahoma remains a great program, but tonight’s loss to West Virginia—while removing the Sooners from this year’s national title conversation—will also make it that much more difficult for this program to grab the brass ring in future seasons as well."

http://cfn.scout.com/2/716546.html

TUSooner

1/4/2008, 02:29 PM

How hard do they hit. Do they go for the arm tackle, or do they put a helmet on somebody? Do they whiff on tackles or are they dialed in?

It has nothing to do with celebration. If that's what you think, it explains why you don't get it.
Thank you. If Leroy Lizard can't figure that out, I'll take back the spek I gave him for another post! Whether a team is fired up or not is something even the least sophisticated fans can usually see. E.g. - My wife (God bless her): "That team looks like it's playing a lot harder than the other one."
:twinkies:

Leroy Lizard

1/4/2008, 02:30 PM

How hard do they hit. Do they go for the arm tackle, or do they put a helmet on somebody?

Did you ever stop to think that players like Pat White make it very difficult to put a helmet on him? Isn't that one of the reasons he is considered a great college football player?

sanantoniosooner

1/4/2008, 02:32 PM

Did you ever stop to think that players like Pat White make it very difficult to put a helmet on him? Isn't that one of the reasons he is considered a great college football player?
This is just about Pat White?

Newsflash. We play 12-13 games a season and only played Pat White once in the last 5 years.

TUSooner

1/4/2008, 02:32 PM

On the original subject, or close --

Does anyone think our offense was simplified or restricted in any way for OUr RS Freshman QB? I've never heard it suggested, but OUr coaches don't usually tell all that stuff anyway. Though Sam's smart, he is still lacking some experience. I think it's possible, but not likely. However, if we "open up the playbook" next year, it might indicate that we were holding something back this year.

KC//CRIMSON

1/4/2008, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by TripleOption14
The difference is EXECUTION!!!!!

It's hard to execute when opposing defenses know exactly what your running before the ball is even snapped.

Ask Kstate, USC, Norm Chow, Boise State, and WVU....

TUSooner

1/4/2008, 02:38 PM

Did you ever stop to think that players like Pat White make it very difficult to put a helmet on him? Isn't that one of the reasons he is considered a great college football player?

If you can NEVER tell when a team is motivated or not, you just aren't paying attention. If you are saying "sometimes it's hard to tell," or "sometimes it's other stuff" then fine. But your extremist "nobody can ever know" argument is getting embarrassing. Give it up! :rolleyes:

LittleWingSooner

1/4/2008, 02:45 PM

MextheBulldog

1/4/2008, 02:50 PM

Look WVU is a decent team. But if OU really scouted them they could do what some of the other teams did this year to contain Pat Smith and WVU's offense. It looked like the players didn't know what was coming with WVU. Our entire team looked like they didn't know what was coming. Some of it goes to lack of execution but coaching is the biggest mismatch on the field that night. Bill Stewart's team played great ball and executed well. OU looked like they didn't know what a football was.

I think "decent" is not enough. That was an Elite level college football team, and was in the Top 10 the entire year.

You really think OU did not scout 'em? Every single game WVu played this year was thoroughly reviewed, guaranteed.

Much like with VY, until you're actually on the field to see the speed first hand, there is only so much prep you can do.

Sooner_Bob

1/4/2008, 02:50 PM

But why would you prepare for a bowl game any differently than any other game? What would YOU change?

The four week layoff for one . . . :D

Leroy Lizard

1/4/2008, 04:13 PM

If you can NEVER tell when a team is motivated or not, you just aren't paying attention. If you are saying "sometimes it's hard to tell," or "sometimes it's other stuff" then fine. But your extremist "nobody can ever know" argument is getting embarrassing.

I think this "they're not really trying" is nothing more than a weak excuse from mad sports fans who simply cannot admit that the other team simply beat them. "Oh yeah, well... well... we weren't really trying... so DON'T THINK YOU'RE BETTER."

I do think the defense was confused at times. For example, the late substitution was probably caused by a late decision by the coaching staff, which could indicate that WVU caught them with their pants down. Also, the fullback run for a touchdown seemed to have caught OU in an unfortunate scheme. But I would have to ask the DC to know for sure.

But not trying? I fail to see how college football players would fail to try hard in a BCS bowl game. (If anything, they probably overpursued on some plays.)

TMcGee86

1/4/2008, 04:15 PM

Has anyone considered the fact that OU has not won the fiesta bowl since 1976, and that was against Wyoming?

Stoops has never won it.

It's obviously a jinxed bowl.

We should turn down the invite if we get it next year.

TMcGee86

1/4/2008, 04:26 PM

duplicate post. carry on. theres nothing to see here

sanantoniosooner

1/4/2008, 04:54 PM

there wasn't anything to see here prior to your arrival

just say'n

TripleOption14

1/4/2008, 05:00 PM

It's hard to execute when opposing defenses know exactly what your running before the ball is even snapped.

Ask Kstate, USC, Norm Chow, Boise State, and WVU....

Nope!!! Doesn't matter!! If you EXECUTE correctly you should be able to tell a team exactly what play is coming and STILL gain positive yards!!

And that saying my friend is from a HALL OF FAME NFL COACH! Chuck Knoll to be exact. EXECUTION and PREPARTION is everything in the game of football.

sanantoniosooner

1/4/2008, 05:01 PM

What would be the point of misdirection if it didn't matter if the other team knew the play?

Leroy Lizard

1/4/2008, 05:06 PM

Except for a few obvious situations, I doubt the defense really knows what play is going to take place. You react to what the offense does after the ball is snapped, or you gamble a little. If anything, WVU's offense was probably more "predictable" than OU's, but it didn't give us much of an edge.

TripleOption14

1/4/2008, 05:13 PM

What would be the point of misdirection if it didn't matter if the other team knew the play?

To take advantage of a team that is being over aggressive w/ pressure or blitzes.

Rock Hard Corn Frog

1/4/2008, 05:14 PM

I react to anything .

I thought I'd quote the 4 words from your post that make any coherent sense.

Animal Mother

1/4/2008, 05:15 PM

I don't know if this has been said but man the other boards have to be enjoying all the rodents in the water here at Sooner Fans. All are entitled to their opinions but use some review, distance and logic and try not slamming your patela into your chin at 100 mph. It's cool. I see it as thinning the herd just as that tiger did at the San Francisco zoo the other day.

TripleOption14

1/4/2008, 05:18 PM

I don't know if this has been said but man thje other boards have to be enjoying all the rodents in the water here at Sooner Fans. All are entitled to their opinions but use some review, distance and logic and try not slamming your patela into your chin at 100 mph. It's cool. I see it as thinning the herd just as that tiger did at the San Francisco zoo the other day.

No disrespect in any way Mother.... but who gives a good got d@mn what other boards are saying.

KC//CRIMSON

1/4/2008, 05:19 PM

Nope!!! Doesn't matter!! If you EXECUTE correctly you should be able to tell a team exactly what play is coming and STILL gain positive yards!!

And that saying my friend is from a HALL OF FAME NFL COACH! Chuck Knoll to be exact. EXECUTION and PREPARTION is everything in the game of football.

Really? I guess you missed the Orange Bowl beat down a few years ago.

Dude, this is OU's offense we're talking about. You know, that team that has the biggest O line in the school's history and couldn't gain half a yard on fourth down. Yep, it's all execution.:rolleyes:

TripleOption14

1/4/2008, 05:23 PM

Yep, it's all execution.:rolleyes:

You can roll your eyes all you want but its the truth when think about.

sanantoniosooner

1/4/2008, 05:37 PM

To take advantage of a team that is being over aggressive w/ pressure or blitzes.
If they already knew what the play was, wouldn't they know that you were trying to trick them and refuse to be tricked?

The point is that part of the 'execution' of a play relies on deception and if you don't deceive the other team it's harder to execute the play successfully.

Animal Mother

1/4/2008, 06:40 PM

No disrespect in any way Mother.... but who gives a good got d@mn what other boards are saying.

Just an observation. A lead into my rats leaving sinking ships summation. No disrespect taken.

Leroy Lizard

1/4/2008, 08:14 PM

I thought I'd quote the 4 words from your post that make any coherent sense.

Well then, it sounds like you need a little help.

http://www.emints.org/ethemes/resources/S00000737.shtml

goingoneight

1/4/2008, 09:16 PM

Bro,

I hear what you're saying, but if that really is the case, it is tragic. KN's knees have nothing to do with J Dub's knees. We now have the depth at QB to run these kids out there and if they get hurt, plug the next one in.

Because Keith Nichol looked SO FANTASTIC against Utah State we had to put someone else in to move the chains against the mighty aggies.

Bob is simply too conservative in this day and age.[?QUOTE]

Uh, I'm pretty sure I saw him suspend his starting DT and safety, something other coaches like Pete Carroll and Mack Brown don't have the cojones to do. Is the onside kick conservative? Great point there, buddy.

[QUOTE=]One more thing... those of you calling for KW's head are TOTALLY off base. Please make NO mistake about it. Bob defines the scope of KW's offense. If KW were left to his druthers, KN would be the starting QB and we'd be running a variant of WVU offense we saw last night.

He's right, who likes developing NFL talent anyway? Let's go all high school on their asses!!! Must be something wrong with being one of the nation's most prolific offenses in 2007, huh? I can't tell you how many times I've seen a freshman out-perform the previous year's HEISMAN TROPHY WINNER in every category. Love the backup quarterback reference. I'm pretty sure Kevin Wilson was one of three offensive coaches who said numerous times that Keith Nichol wasn't ready yet. But don't let facts get in your way.

In fact, after talking with someone close to the program this morning, I can tell you that KW had to lobby Bob HARD to get DM in the "WildHog" formation this year and after seeing it, Bob told KW to put it away (despite some initial success).

Because that high school crap worked WONDERS in Florida and Arkansas' bowl games.

Sorry to break the news, but Bob is the issue, not KW.

Let me answer this one for Chris... neither are a problem.

I have not talked to KW personally, so I don't know 'bout his career plans.

I don't talk to him, either... but he did say after the OSU game, after the BIG 12 championship and numerous times the last few weeks he wants to stay at OU a little longer. Let's put two and two together here... Bob Stoops ain't going anywhere, so that would make him... yup... offensive coordinator at best.

However, as someone noted in another post, our offense has progressively gotten more conservative since Leach left.

Because we can REALLY make a long-term guage on a guy who was here for one year, huh?

Mark Mangino just won a BCS bowl, how many of those has Leach been to again? Stoops and Leach gambled back then because we had to, or we'd have had a losing season again in 1999. OUr defense wasn't doing us any favors yet that year as Stoops' defensive scheme took some time to develop and catch on.

I mean heck, look at the offense Mangino runs at KU. It is even more open, aggressive, and risk laden than our offense was when he was the OC at OU.

Uh... no it isn't. It's a spread offense just like we ran here with different players. I don't wan't to even think about running a spread offense right now as bad as OUr defense tends to get torched. I'd rather control the game, thank you. Mangino stunts around a little because he doesn't have a Q or a future Heisman winner under center.

Look at the offensive philosophy of KW at NW and where he learned offense... the spread option is in his DNA. He knows how to run it just as well as Rich Rod, Belotti, and the young Paterno (Jay I think). In fact, KW knows the spread offense better than the one we currently have in place... yet we don't run it. Hummmmmm. Do you see the trend here? I wonder why these events have unfolded as they have (rhetorical question)? Come on.

Because Adrian Peterson and Allen Patrick aren't exactly North-South runners. Who likes developing NFL talent anyways? Answer me this... how many NFL teams waste their time dicking around with high school "trickeration?" While you're at it, answer me this, too... How much film did you watch on NW when KW was there? Perhaps you don't remember the reason he ran what he did? No Adrian Petersons, Jermaine Greshams, no DeMarco Murrays or Malcom Kellys. There's a reason these kids come to play for OU.

I'm not going to name my source, but have I EVER come on here (or the old Tulsa world board) at anytime over the past 12 years and written something that turned out not to be true? And Oh BTW, Bob and Mark Mangino also had many disagreements on offensive philosophies, which was a contributing factor to Mark leaving.

THAT'S NOT TRUE!!!1111!!!1[hairGel]
Mangino and Stoops have both said that's a bold-faced "LIE." L-I-E, lie. Mangino had no problem running the power-I at K-State. You use what suits your talent and helps you win.

Something happened to Bob after Mike Leach left. Don't know if he figured out how to defend Leach's spread and then figured it wasn't worthy or what... but the change is noticable and documented.

He's won a National Title since Leach left, and made it to BCS bowls just fine without the super-secret spread offense. His problem is teams coming out flat or letting teams beat on them without responding. It happens. It happened to Switer and Osbourne, too. Unless you can dig up how many MNCs Barry won in 17 years at OU, which was three FWIW. 17-3 = 14 seasons when for one reason or another they didn't cap it all. The spread and the option is easily defendable with elite-level talent, just ask Jimmy Johnson. Both offenses work, but we go with what OUr talent spells.