the Mayor to ask for a MAPS-esque sales tax

[Partial Qualifier]

this afternoon, intended to fund Ford Center upgrades & a Team Practice Facility, presumably for the Sonics.

IMO It's something we'd have to do, or subsidize to some degree, no matter what team wished to move here.

Thoughts?

[frankensooner]

I am not an NBA fan, but what the heck, if it is what it takes, lets do it.

[BigRedJed]

News release:


City announces plans to call for NBA election

Initiative will improve Ford Center and construct
NBA training facility; timing dictated by scheduled NBA consideration of relocation application to Oklahoma City

Mayor Mick Cornett today announced plans by the City to call for a citywide election to provide funding for capital improvements to the Ford Center and for construction of an NBA training facility. The City will call for the election January 2, 2008, for the election to be held March 4, 2008.

Passage will demonstrate Oklahoma City’s long-term commitment to the NBA, and will occur prior to the NBA’s vote on a relocation application to Oklahoma City in April, 2008. Additionally, the Ford Center improvements are intended to increase the enjoyment of the facility for all users at all events.

“I think we as a community have reached a consensus that our experience with the NBA was a success and we’d like to pursue it further,” said Mayor Cornett. “This commitment to making a capital investment in our own facilities is a necessary ingredient to receiving the best possible consideration by the NBA.”

The March 4th vote will be to approve a temporary one-penny sales tax to commence the day after the temporary MAPS for Kids sales tax elapses. Details concerning the exact length of the tax are still evolving, but will be resolved by the time of the January 2, 2008 Council meeting. Preliminarily, the tax is expected to last between 12 and 15 months.

All enhancements will be owned by the City. The improvements would help attract any NBA team and are not specific to a particular franchise. The timing of the election is driven by the scheduled consideration of the SuperSonics application to the NBA for relocation to Oklahoma City.

###

NBA Vote Fact Sheet


● On December 11, 2007, the City Council approved a consulting contract with the Benham Companies to evaluate what necessary improvements must be made to the Ford Center to accommodate a permanent NBA franchise, and what those improvements and construction of a training facility would cost. Initial findings of that study regarding cost and a basic outline of the improvements are expected to be complete before the January 2, 2008 City Council meeting.

● One year of a one-penny sales tax in Oklahoma City currently raises approximately $97 million.

● The temporary citywide sales tax would be collected starting January 1, 2009, the day after the elapse of the temporary MAP for Kids one-penny sales tax.

● The City expects to call for an election at their regularly-scheduled January 2, 2008 meeting. January 3, 2008 is the final day the election could be called, in order to be held on March 4, 2008, in time for the NBA’s consideration in April of the relocation application.



Oklahoma City and Major League Sports Timeline

1993 – The citizens of Oklahoma City approve the Metropolitan Area
Projects (MAPS) initiative, which includes a sports arena intended to lure a major league sports team to Oklahoma City.

1997 – After serious community efforts, Oklahoma City is not awarded a National Hockey League (NHL) expansion franchise.

1998 – The citizens of Oklahoma City approve an extension of the MAPS sales tax, thus ensuring that the sports arena would be built.

2002 – The Ford Center opens.

2004 – Mick Cornett is elected Mayor, and begins meeting on a regular basis with National Basketball Association (NBA) Commissioner David Stern to pitch Oklahoma City as a major league market.

2005 - 2007 – The New Orleans Hornets of the NBA become the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets for two years, following the devastation by Hurricane Katrina. The relocation results in an estimated $66 million in economic impact the first season. In that first season, the games in Oklahoma City average 18,737 fans, good for 9th in the NBA. Just over one month into the first season, Commissioner David Stern says that Oklahoma City is now at the top of the list for any future expansions or relocations.

November 2, 2007 – The SuperSonics franchise announces its intention to file for relocation to Oklahoma City.

January 2, 2008 – The City is expected to call for a March 4, 2008 election to commit funding for capital improvements necessary to help secure NBA approval of any relocation request.

March 4, 2008 – The election is expected to be held.

April, 2008 – The NBA Board of Governors is expected to consider the SuperSonics relocation request.

[r5TPsooner]

I'll be voting "Hell No" on that one.

[frankensooner]

I'll be voting "Hell No" on that one.
Hater

actually, I think it will pay for itself in the long run, just in benefits to the city.

[Mjcpr]

I'll be voting "Hell No" on that one.

Do you live in Tulsa?

[r5TPsooner]

Hater

actually, I think it will pay for itself in the long run, just in benefits to the city.

Hate the NBA and its band of thugs? YES! Hate the City? Nah. But since I rarely do anything in Bricktown or downtown OKC, I'd have to pass. Now, If they brought an NHL team to OKC, then I probably would vote yes.

[frankensooner]

Don't get me wrong, but I absolutely freaking hate the NBA. I think it will be good for local business and help give OKC a leg up in image, as far a being a major league city.

[Mjcpr]

Don't get me wrong, but I absolutely freaking hate the NBA. I think it will be good for local business and help give OKC a leg up in image, as far a being a major league city.

Word. How much is the MAPS for Kids sales tax?

[r5TPsooner]

Don't get me wrong, but I absolutely freaking hate the NBA. I think it will be good for local business and help give OKC a leg up in image, as far a being a major league city.


I suppose if I were a business owner in Bricktown or a fan of the NBA, I'd feel differently. I pay enough in property taxes living in the Deer Creek school district plus the sales tax in OKC is pretty damned high for a state of our size. I'd prefer to spend our money on education and taking better care of the roads before I vote Yes on bringing an NBA team here.

[Mjcpr]

That sounds familiar.

[IB4OU2]

With or without the NBA, OKC doesn't have the tree lined streets like we have currently.

[SicEmBaylor]

I have a policy of never voting for a tax increase -- ever. Not in any form, shape, and/or fashion.

[OklahomaTuba]

Oh come on OKC, its Christmas time.

For once, quit thinking about your own selfish basic necessities of smooth roads, low crime, low taxes and decent schools for your kids.

Everyone should sacrifice a little of their hard earned money for such a worthy cause.

Those poor underpaid starving kids who work so hard everyday putting round balls into metal hoops deserve to have a decent, safe, dry place to practice.

There is no way at all a little organization like the NBA could afford such things.

Work Harder and pay your Taxes folks, the NBA needs your help!

[Partial Qualifier]

I suppose if I were a business owner in Bricktown or a fan of the NBA, I'd feel differently. I pay enough in property taxes living in the Deer Creek school district plus the sales tax in OKC is pretty damned high for a state of our size. I'd prefer to spend our money on education and taking better care of the roads before I vote Yes on bringing an NBA team here.

I agree on those issues, but I would agree to an annual KidsMAPS and a Streets&BridgesMAPS every 4 or 5 years, if they were proposed.

I'm continued to be amazed at the effectiveness of Norick's original MAPS, granted I was younger (and poorer) then, wasn't dropping big money on sales purchases, but the sales tax didn't seem like a a huge burden to me. In fact I really didn't notice it. 97 Million Dollars from 1-cent-on-the-dollar over the course of one year seems reasonably painless for such a large chunk of change, no matter how it's put to use.

[Lott's Bandana]

I left OK for the military in 1980. OKC was a truck-stop and Tulsa pwned them...

I return in 2005 and find OKC to be a revitalized place with great attempts at character, personality and identity, many of them succeeding. BTW, Tulsa still is a great place.

Many municipalities send their gov reps to OKC to learn how to do it. I give them credit and believe the addition of a professional sports team will only add to the above.

So similar to Sacramento, yet they blew it with Arco Arena out in the middle of nowhere...

[BigRedJed]

Well, at first my reply was going to be pretty similar to what Lott's Bandana just posted, so I'll save you that. But I will add this: we ALSO fund education in OKC (the better part of a billion dollars with MAPS for Kids), PLUS fund roads, parks, cops... (the bond issue (http://www.okc.gov/bonds2007) that passed a week and a half ago -- by an average 80% majority, BTW -- funds all of those things).

MAPS for Kids and bond issues like the ones in that link would NEVER have happened before the original MAPS, which has now unleashed a tidal wave of new economic activity in our city, which in turn creates a stronger tax base...

The citizens of our fair city have seen the previous stagnation come to an end, and correctly connect the dots to MAPS and its successor programs. Whether or not that will translate to a yes vote in this instance remains to be seen.

And basing your vote on something like this on your personal sports preferences, etc., is not a correct approach. Something is either good for the city, or it is not. If, in your view, it would be bad for the city to do this, vote no. If, in your view, it would help Oklahoma City to do this, vote yes. It's pretty simple, really.

[OklahomaTuba]

I think someone voting on this should also ask why a potential professional sports franchise that is worth millions and pays their players millions deserves my money that could be used for me & my family, or for improving more basic of my basic needs like infastructure, business development, education, etc.

[Jerk]

I think someone voting on this should also ask why a potential professional sports franchise that is worth millions and pays their players millions deserves my money that could be used for me & my family, or for improving more basic of my basic needs like infastructure, business development, education, etc.
We don't need to pay for the roads. We let the State do that. I hear they get a sh*t ton their tax money from Green Country. Hell, them Tulsy people up thar is rich, so they can afford to build are roads.

[GottaHavePride]

I think someone voting on this should also ask why a potential professional sports franchise that is worth millions and pays their players millions deserves my money that could be used for me & my family, or for improving more basic of my basic needs like infastructure, business development, education, etc.

Um, because a professional sports franchise is an economy-booster, and an the long run a stronger economy will probably improve all those things faster than trying to pass tax increases to pay for all that stuff without any factors that might actually increase how much money people earn...

[ultimatesooner1]

Only way I would vote yes is if they agree to never host the all star game

[GottaHavePride]

Heh.

[r5TPsooner]

Um, because a professional sports franchise is an economy-booster, and an the long run a stronger economy will probably improve all those things faster than trying to pass tax increases to pay for all that stuff without any factors that might actually increase how much money people earn...


Having moved from a "major" city with all of the professional sports plus NHL hockey... I can honestly say that this is not always the case. In many instances the owners of the team, make demands on the the city and (sometimes) state that neither can/want to economically or financially support. I also seriously doubt that the hot dog guy is going to see a serious raise or larger portion of the revenue that the gate generates. Now, the businesses especially bars and restaurants will probably see an increase on game days.

Like I said before, if you like the NBA or own/support a buisness in Bricktown, then by all means support the sales tax. If you're like me and dislike the NBA and what it stands for and would like to see sales tax money go elsewhere, then vote no.

Should be interesting regardless.

[Cam]

I don't like the NBA, and don't own a business in Bricktown, but I'll vote for it. At the end of the day, it'll do more good for the city than bad IMO.

[BigRedJed]

For the most part, the businesses in Bricktown didn't see huge gains related to the Hornets being in town, believe it or not. In fact during the first season their expectations were so out of whack that I would characterize the business that they did see as a huge disappointment. Eventually they learned that they would have to settle for very modest increases on game nights vs. non-game nights.

You might be surprised to hear that, and might not even believe me, but it's true.

The reasons you should support the tax, if you choose to, should have nothing to do with bringing (bar and restaurant) business to Bricktown, and everything to do with bringing (big) business to Oklahoma and specifically Oklahoma City.

Changing the national perception of Oklahoma City from a minor league backwater that competes with Amarillo, Fort Smith, Shreveport, Wichita, etc., to a major league city capable of competing with New York, L.A., Miami, Denver, et al., could prove to be a watershed moment from an economic development standpoint.

Oklahoma City got more positive, non-disaster-related national publicity during the Hornets' stay than perhaps any time in its history. Granted, that same type of pub will be harder to come by the second time around, but it will come.

Being a on the cusp of being considered a "big city" on a national stage has already required much taxpayer investment, and it will require more in the future. That's the nature of being a part of that club.

[Soonerus]

Vote Yes !!! don't turn into a frustrated Tulsa-like person...

[bluedogok]

.....but, but some people want to keep Oklahoma a minor league backwater state.

Overall tax burden in Oklahoma is less than it is down here, my sisters property taxes (OKC/PC) are about 1/4 of what ours are down here for about the same appraised valuation. We have about the same sales tax to go along with the 4x higher property taxes. No income tax, big deal, all it comes down to is one less form to fill out. They all find ways to skin the cat, they just use different means and methods.

That being said, a one (0.01) cent sales tax is nothing, even struggling I never really noticed it much. You are talking about ONE WHOLE DOLLAR extra for EVERY $100.00. If that "keeps" you from buying something then you probably shouldn't be buying it. Face it, a penny is nothing.

[r5TPsooner]

For the most part, the businesses in Bricktown didn't see huge gains related to the Hornets being in town, believe it or not. In fact during the first season their expectations were so out of whack that I would characterize the business that they did see as a huge disappointment. Eventually they learned that they would have to settle for very modest increases on game nights vs. non-game nights.

You might be surprised to hear that, and might not even believe me, but it's true.

The reasons you should support the tax, if you choose to, should have nothing to do with bringing (bar and restaurant) business to Bricktown, and everything to do with bringing (big) business to Oklahoma and specifically Oklahoma City.

Changing the national perception of Oklahoma City from a minor league backwater that competes with Amarillo, Fort Smith, Shreveport, Wichita, etc., to a major league city capable of competing with New York, L.A., Miami, Denver, et al., could prove to be a watershed moment from an economic development standpoint.

Oklahoma City got more positive, non-disaster-related national publicity during the Hornets' stay than perhaps any time in its history. Granted, that same type of pub will be harder to come by the second time around, but it will come.

Being a on the cusp of being considered a "big city" on a national stage has already required much taxpayer investment, and it will require more in the future. That's the nature of being a part of that club.


Jed, I hear (read) and respect what you're saying but politely disagree. I just feel that people who feel that by bringing the NBA to town makes folks think that we're a major city is kinda silly. I seriously doubt that a CEO of a major company makes a decision on whether to bring his company to OKC based on if the NBA is here or not is just out of whack. That probably has more to do with property taxes, cost to do business, and ease of operation more than it does anything else.

Quite frankly, living in a "big city" sucked from my perspective. One of the things I like most about OKC is the ease to get from one place to another, the lack of traffic, and the feeling of wide open spaces. Personally, I'd like them to put the NBA on hold until OKC completely finishes rejuvenating and rebuilding downtown OKC and not just the Bricktown area.

I don't know... maybe my feelings on the subject are a bit conservative but I'd just like to see the money go elsewhere downtown.

[Condescending Sooner]

I will vote no mainly because "temporary" tax increases never end. The original MAPS was supposed to be temporary over 10 years ago, and it is still going.

[Lott's Bandana]

I will vote no mainly because "temporary" tax increases never end. The original MAPS was supposed to be temporary over 10 years ago, and it is still going.


But, isn't that because teh OKC peeps continue it by ballot initiative?

[frankensooner]

Yeah, it is now maps for kids, we voted for it and it really improved the okc schools which were the suck, now they are asking to extend it again to pay for the upgrades. We vote to keep the tax, it just isn't there because the mayor ordered it there! :rolleyes:

[SicEmBaylor]

If schools need more money for truly necessary improvements then let them trim the fat and get rid of some staff/administrators. I will not vote for a tax increase.

[frankensooner]

Yeah, Mr. Ft. Gibson with the power plant money. Too bad you didn't have to sit in an okc classroom with the ceiling tiles falling on your head! ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

Yeah, Mr. Ft. Gibson with the power plant money. Too bad you didn't have to sit in an okc classroom with the ceiling tiles falling on your head! ;)
Let them eat cake!

[r5TPsooner]

If the city would just fix/repair the street that runs in front of the Deer Creek Elementary School, I'd be a happy camper. However, if may be part of Edmond for all I know? All I know is that it is horrible from a safety standpoint.

[BigRedJed]

I will vote no mainly because "temporary" tax increases never end. The original MAPS was supposed to be temporary over 10 years ago, and it is still going.
You are wrong to the point of this statement being slanderous. The original MAPS tax, passed in 1993, made effective in 1994 and projected to last for five years, was extended six months, BY A POPULAR VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, as a part of THE "Finish MAPS Right" campaign. It expired in July of 1999, AND THE GODDAMN PENNY SALES TAX WAS REMOVED, AS PROMISED.

Every MAPS project was 100% paid for at the time of its completion, leaving Oklahoma City residents, their children and their grandchildren with no debt whatsoever on the largest group of public works projects of their kind ever attempted anywhere in the United States.

In 2001, AFTER TWO YEARS OF PAYING A PENNY LESS IN SALES TAX, Oklahoma City voters again went to the polls and voted to approve a new penny sales tax, part of MAPS for Kids, which will expire in January 2009, as promised. If a new tax takes its place, it will be only after a majority of Oklahoma City voters decide that it should be that way.

If you want to make a case against a tax for, let's see, any number of very defensible reasons -- lower taxes, not believing in public subsidy for professional sports, you don't want to live in a big city with big city traffic, whatever -- knock yourself out.

But calling into question the integrity of the people who assembled the original MAPS plan, who promised that it would go away, and who ultimately succeeded in their mission, is NOT an acceptable argument. In fact, it is a libelous lie. You need to get your facts straight next time to avoid posting out of your ***. Just a suggestion.

[Mixer!]

Changing the national perception of Oklahoma City from a minor league backwater that competes with Amarillo, Fort Worth, Shreveport, Wichita, etc., to a major league city capable of competing with New York, L.A., Miami, Denver, et al., could prove to be a watershed moment from an economic development standpoint.

http://www.theperformancemagazine.com/images/writers/BOB-FUNK.jpg

"Now why do you have to go and be-downgrade my team like that?"