Russell Means is an idiot

[usmc-sooner]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html

I think these people do much more harm for their fellow Indians than good. They never try to convince people they have to go out and get it like I was taught, all they ever do is complain that the government isn't doing enough for them.

[OUDoc]

That should fix everything.

[King Crimson]

seems they want to do it on their own without govt assistance. i'm not sure i understand your point vis a vis this article: how a move to self-autonomy (however realistic or unrealistic, but apparently legal) can be read as complaining the govt isn't doing enough for them? and i don't see how one could say the "reason" they are doing it is the govt isn't doing enough for them....based on this article and the quotations included.

just a question.

seems to me they'll need to use federal money to be viable economic actors....so, that's gonna be tricky.

[Widescreen]

Oppression at the hands of the U.S. government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world.

Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the U.S.; infant mortality is five times higher than the U.S. average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.
This is the only part I don't understand at all. So the US government is responsible for the low life expectancy, teen suicides, infant mortality and unemployment of the Lakota? Uh, OK.

[OUDoc]

This is the only part I don't understand at all. So the US government is responsible for the low life expectancy, teen suicides, infant mortality and unemployment of the Lakota? Uh, OK.
The treaties are, apparently, so he got that fixed.

[IB4OU2]

They need to open some casinos.

[Sooner_Bob]

Good 'ol Russell . . .

[SoonerStormchaser]

No offense to my Native American brethren here, but all this crap going on up there is nothing more than what Al Sharpton continuously does...they're the ones keeping the racist, segregationist practices alive, not the people they blame for it!

[Sooner_Bob]

This is the only part I don't understand at all. So the US government is responsible for the low life expectancy, teen suicides, infant mortality and unemployment of the Lakota? Uh, OK.


That's kinda what I was wondering about too . . .

[Sooner_Bob]

No offense to my Native American brethren here, but all this crap going on up there is nothing more than what Al Sharpton continuously does...they're the ones keeping the racist, segregationist practices alive, not the people they blame for it!


That's American Indian to you bub . . .

































:D

[mdklatt]

So the US government is responsible for the low life expectancy, teen suicides, infant mortality and unemployment of the Lakota?

They didn't exactly put themselves on reservations.

[usmc-sooner]

seems they want to do it on their own without govt assistance. i'm not sure i understand your point vis a vis this article: how a move to self-autonomy (however realistic or unrealistic, but apparently legal) can be read as complaining the govt isn't doing enough for them? and i don't see how one could say the "reason" they are doing it is the govt isn't doing enough for them....based on this article and the quotations included.

just a question.

seems to me they'll need to use federal money to be viable economic actors....so, that's gonna be tricky.


Russell means has been preaching victimization since the 70's. I've met him, heard him speak and I don't like him. Those Lakota are not confined to that area, they are free to move around the country, they have numerous education options available to them. Yet people like Means and those groups like AIM all they ever do is play the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton card and act like the government should do more, or blame other people for their mistakes.

[usmc-sooner]

They didn't exactly put themselves on reservations.

and they aint required to stay on them. I'm part Indian and I don't live on a reservation. You know we gripe about that a lot but what other nations conquer other nations then turn around and alot them their homelands back. Not many.


There is no reason for anyone to not be successful in America, if you're not, you aren't trying very hard.

[Widescreen]

They didn't exactly put themselves on reservations.
So being on a reservation equals infant mortality, etc? Not really seeing the connection there. Plus, it's not like they have to live on reservations. There's a native american family down the street from me. We're in the hood, not the reservation.

[Okla-homey]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html

I think these people do much more harm for their fellow Indians than good. They never try to convince people they have to go out and get it like I was taught, all they ever do is complain that the government isn't doing enough for them.

Good luck with that. One of the most enduring and powerful canons of Indian law, (and there is a buttload of federal case law that stands for the proposition) states Congress has plenary* power over Indian affairs. Thus, it makes little difference what a treaty with a tribe says, or whether or not either party subsequently disavows the agreement.

In the end, Congress has the hammer.

Oh, and BTW, Indians were declared citizens of the US by Congress in 1924. Thus, the only way an Indian can cease being a citizen is if he or she pursues formal naturalization with a sovereign foreign nation -- not an Indian tribe. Tribes do enjoy a certain degree of sovereignty, in that states can't make them do stuff, but they are NOT completely sovereign in that they have no power to engage in foreign affairs, make war, or prosecute non-Indians who are accused of committing crimes on the rez.

*plenary (adj) full, complete, entire

[SoonerStormchaser]

^^^WINNAR^^^

[picasso]

where white men fear to tread?

[usmc-sooner]

for someone who wants to seperate from the U.S. Means has sure tried to run for several political offices in the US government. He can't even get him self elected President of his own tribe.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

They didn't exactly put themselves on reservations.Many Aboriginal Americans don't seem to want to leave those reservations, though, and participate in the American economy.

[jeremy885]

seems to me they'll need to use federal money to be viable economic actors....so, that's gonna be tricky.


If they got the Black Hills back, maybe not.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm pretty well split on the issue.

On the one hand, I believe in the right of any group of people to dissolve their political bindings and create a new government that is to their satisfaction. On the other hand, I care absolutely nothing for the indians, their so-called treaties, or the wrongs they think were done to them.

So, like I said, I'm conflicted. I do like the precedent it sets though.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

...I care absolutely nothing for the indians, their so-called treaties, or the wrongs they think were done to them.

Why, you racist maufau, insensitive, Custer-loving, nativephobic, Baptist Bear-promoting, revolutionary-friendly fungus, how dare you?!?!?!

[SicEmBaylor]

Why, you racist maufau, insensitive, Custer-loving, nativephobic, Baptist Bear-promoting, revolutionary-friendly fungus, how dare you?!?!?!

I resent the implication that I love Custer.

[Sooner_Bob]

They didn't exactly put themselves on reservations.


Very true, but some of the folks do manage to make a great life for themselves and not become a "statistic". Those that don't have nobody to blame but themselves. I've seen it first hand on about half a dozen reservations.

[Jerk]

I resent the implication that I love Custer.

What? You don't like the youngest General in the Yankee Army?

[Jerk]

The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mr Means said.
...which is a question on the Brady form, inspired by Oswald. Answer 'yes' and lose your 2nd amendment rights.

There goes the new nation's army.

Maybe they'll go back to bows and arrows?

[yermom]

this sounds interesting...

what are the boundaries to their "country"? can they be self-sufficient?

[usmc-sooner]

this sounds interesting...

what are the boundaries to their "country"? can they be self-sufficient?

if you've ever been to Pine Ridge you'd know how horrible some Indian Country can be run. Tribal government is very corrupt, to answer this question it's just simply no they can not. Means has always had his own agenda at heart, he's not helping his people by coming up with stuff like this.