Championship Games and Other Conferences

[IronHorseSooner]

This year, once again, The Big 10/11 and The Big East will benefit from not having a championship game. It will further remove them from the idea that they will ever have a championship game and level the playing field across the sport. BTW, if it is WVU and tOSU, WVU will ROLL them. If the Bucks had problems with Juice Williams, they will faint when they see Slaton, White, Reynaud, and Devine....

On the original note, does anyone ever think that the PAC-10, Big 10/11, and the Big East will ever go to a CCG format? If the PAC-10 does, and goes to 12 teams, the most logical situation would be to add Hawaii and Boise St.

[royalfan5]

Adding BYU would be far more logical for the Pac-10 than Hawaii.

[OKLA21FAN]

with the addition of the 12th game, at least the PAC 10 plays everyone else in the conference.

[royalfan5]

For the Pac-10 and the Big East playing a complete round robin schedule is just as definitive as having a Championship game.

[Honor&Glory]

Why should the Big 10, Pac 10 or Big East hurt themselves by playing a championship game? Just because the SEC, ACC and Big 12 want a little extra TV money to spread around doesn't mean that the Big 10 is blinded by the greed of others. Every single team in the SEC has two loses and if OU beats Mizzou (which, as a Buckeye fan, I hope they do) that means every team in the Big 12 has 2 loses and if you weren't playing that game, Mizzou would be headed to the National Championship.. Don't hate the B10, BE or Pac 10 for not being greedy and seeing the easiest route to getting your conference to the NC game.

[cheezyq]

Why should the Big 10, Pac 10 or Big East hurt themselves by playing a championship game? Just because the SEC, ACC and Big 12 want a little extra TV money to spread around doesn't mean that the Big 10 is blinded by the greed of others.

While you choose to focus on the money/greed factor, I think the SEC/BXII/ACC conferences actually do it because then you have a true conference champ at the end of the season...not a pretend one. If Wisconsin can win a Big 10/11 championship without playing OSU or UM, then it's not a real championship. And you also run into co-championships, which doesn't happen when you have a CCG.


Every single team in the SEC has two loses and if OU beats Mizzou (which, as a Buckeye fan, I hope they do) that means every team in the Big 12 has 2 loses and if you weren't playing that game, Mizzou would be headed to the National Championship.

Wrong, KU only has 1 loss, and so does Mizzou. And KU can't lose anymore until the bowls. As I pointed above, the CCG gives MU a chance to prove it deserves a Big XII championship.


Don't hate the B10, BE or Pac 10 for not being greedy and seeing the easiest route to getting your conference to the NC game.

Given your chosen name - Honor&Glory - I would think that you would be WANTING for OSU to prove they belong in the championship, and have a ring from winning a true conference championship. Although, I can't say I'd complain either, if the same scenario happened to OU. But the reality is that not having a CCG hurts your perception across the country. Don't hate on us just because your conference chooses to wuss out and slip in the back door of the MNC game.

[Honor&Glory]

While you choose to focus on the money/greed factor, I think the SEC/BXII/ACC conferences actually do it because then you have a true conference champ at the end of the season...not a pretend one. If Wisconsin can win a Big 10/11 championship without playing OSU or UM, then it's not a real championship. And you also run into co-championships, which doesn't happen when you have a CCG.



Wrong, KU only has 1 loss and can't lose anymore until the bowls. As I pointed above, the CCG gives MU a chance to prove it deserves a Big XII championship.



Given your chosen name - Honor&Glory - I would think that you would be WANTING for OSU to prove they belong in the championship, and have a ring from winning a true conference championship. Although, I can't say I'd complain either, if the same scenario happened to OU. But the reality is that not having a CCG hurts your perception across the country. Don't hate on us just because your conference chooses to wuss out and slip in the back door of the MNC game.

I'm not hating on anybody...but the idea of the conference championship game was born out of television dollars and not the desire pick a true champion. The Big10 has it right, in my opinion. Nobody in the Big 10 wants to lose their year end rivalry to a cross section schedule and make that game meaningless compared to a championship game. I'll admit that Whisky winning a Big 10 title without having to play OSU or scUM bites...but a shared Big 10 title in 2002 with Iowa is not even remembered anymore...Just the National title.

by the way...my screen name is from my high school's fight song and it is the same screen name I use on buckeyeplanet.com and yappi.com (a message board devoted to Ohio high school sports/football)...Again, I am not trying to start any trouble or hate on anybody...Bob Stoops is an Ohio boy! :)

[Flagstaffsooner]

doesn't mean that the Big 10 is blinded by the greed of others.Big 10 Network, no greed there. azhole;)

[kevpks]

For the Pac-10 and the Big East playing a complete round robin schedule is just as definitive as having a Championship game.

I completely disagree with this. In the Big XII you often have to beat an elite team from the other division twice with the second game being played on a neutral field.

[royalfan5]

I completely disagree with this. In the Big XII you often have to beat an elite team from the other division twice with the second game being played on a neutral field.
Why should you have to beat someone twice, when you likely beat everyone once already? If they season is a playoff as some many like to argue, there shouldn't be second chances in a CCG.

[SoonerMom2]

Kansas will not be in the National Championship game with their schedule of not playing OU or TX plus four crappy games to start the season. They will fall below WVU IMHO.

Big 10/11 won't go to a championship game because OSU/Michiagan run the league and they like the OSU/Michigan game being the game for the Rose Bowl.

Big 10/11 was a very weak conference this year. Big East is a joke since a lot of schools bolted to the ACC and mid majors replaced them for the most part. UCF -- overhyped and it showed as the season went on. How about Syracuse? Take a look at the teams left in the Big East.

BTW, Hawaii and Boise State played the 118 and 119 worst schedules. When the BCS took out quality wins and strength of schedule, the BCS became a joke. tOSU played Youngstown State (1-AA), Akron and Kent State -- give me a break. tOSU in the Cooper era would never have scheduled such patsy's but with the lack of strength of schedule look for more teams to adopt the weak sisters to play at least 3 out of 4 games.

A school can end up playing bad schools because you schedule that far out but at least OU's weak sisters had been to bowl games. The teams I just mentioned for tOSU never will be will be playing in Bowl Games. I grew up in Ohio and they never would have done that under past coaches but Tressel doesn't fit the mold of tOSU coaches. In fact, he cheats and turns a blind eye as long as they can win. I know a lot of people that are Buckeye fans but cannot stand Tressel and some of the thugs he recruits. But having Herbie as their homer on ABC/ESPN covers up a lot of what goes on at tOSU as he not only hypes them but calls their games.

[Honor&Glory]

A school can end up playing bad schools because you schedule that far out but at least OU's weak sisters had been to bowl games. The teams I just mentioned for tOSU never will be will be playing in Bowl Games. I grew up in Ohio and they never would have done that under past coaches but Tressel doesn't fit the mold of tOSU coaches. In fact, he cheats and turns a blind eye as long as they can win. I know a lot of people that are Buckeye fans but cannot stand Tressel and some of the thugs he recruits. But having Herbie as their homer on ABC/ESPN covers up a lot of what goes on at tOSU as he not only hypes them but calls their games.


OSU also played no-conference home and home games with Texas, Washington and have the same set up in the future with USC, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech and a hopefully resurgent Miami, Fl squad...You may be from Ohio but you are just flat out wrong about what people think about Tressel in this state. The Sweater Vest is practically worshiped...and I could fill a Volkswagon Beatle with the number of OSU fans/grads who are anti-Tressel. (6-1 against scUM will do that for a coach around here)...and who are these thugs that you speak of? you mean the kids who have posted back to back #1 SAT scores for ANY incoming D1 football recruiting classes or the returning players who have posted more academic all big 10 peformers than any of the other 10 schools? :rolleyes:

please...keep your Earl Bruce and John Cooper...the rest of Buckeye Nation will keep Tressel.
I am not sure how a discussion about the merits of conference championship games turned into character asassination on OSU and Jim Tressel...I thought this board was better than that. I guess not.

[Honor&Glory]

Big 10 Network, no greed there. azhole;)

touche.

[WyoBuckeye]

1. The NCAA does not allow conferences with less than 12 members to have a conference championship game.

2. The Big 10 has opened its arms to potential 12th teams in the past (Notre Dame) but were turned down. If in the future an appropriate 12th member is found, then the Big 10 will move in that direction. But the Big 10 is not going to add just any old program, just to be able to play a conference championship game.

3. Conclusion from #1 and #2, the Big 10 cannot add a championship game.

4. There are a good number of people in the Big 10 who support adding a 12th member and going to a divisonal format (ala the Big 12), but until an acceptable member is found, that just isn't going to happen. On the other hand there are a good number of people who don't want to see expansion and don't want a divisional format. Whether it is because it helps Big 10 teams get more favorable bowl bids or simply because it is tradition, I don't know. Probably a little of both for most.

[WyoBuckeye]

OSU also played no-conference home and home games with Texas, Washington and have the same set up in the future with USC, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech and a hopefully resurgent Miami, Fl squad...You may be from Ohio but you are just flat out wrong about what people think about Tressel in this state. The Sweater Vest is practically worshiped...and I could fill a Volkswagon Beatle with the number of OSU fans/grads who are anti-Tressel. (6-1 against scUM will do that for a coach around here)...and who are these thugs that you speak of? you mean the kids who have posted back to back #1 SAT scores for ANY incoming D1 football recruiting classes or the returning players who have posted more academic all big 10 peformers than any of the other 10 schools? :rolleyes:

please...keep your Earl Bruce and John Cooper...the rest of Buckeye Nation will keep Tressel.
I am not sure how a discussion about the merits of conference championship games turned into character asassination on OSU and Jim Tressel...I thought this board was better than that. I guess not.


You nailed it.

[cheezyq]

I'm not hating on anybody...but the idea of the conference championship game was born out of television dollars and not the desire pick a true champion. The Big10 has it right, in my opinion. Nobody in the Big 10 wants to lose their year end rivalry to a cross section schedule and make that game meaningless compared to a championship game. I'll admit that Whisky winning a Big 10 title without having to play OSU or scUM bites...but a shared Big 10 title in 2002 with Iowa is not even remembered anymore...Just the National title.

by the way...my screen name is from my high school's fight song and it is the same screen name I use on buckeyeplanet.com and yappi.com (a message board devoted to Ohio high school sports/football)...Again, I am not trying to start any trouble or hate on anybody...Bob Stoops is an Ohio boy! :)

I don't have anything against OhioSU, or even the Big 10/11. But I disagree that it's better not to play a CCG. You MIGHT be able to argue that if you played every team at least once, and had a decent system of tie-breakers in place. But you're wrong on the CCG being born out of money/greed. The formation of larger conferences was born out of money/greed, but the championship is just a necessity.

[cheezyq]

I am not sure how a discussion about the merits of conference championship games turned into character asassination on OSU and Jim Tressel...I thought this board was better than that. I guess not.

I think most of us respect Tressel and OhioSU. There is some holdover on the Maurice Clarett fiasco and how light OhioSU got off on that, though. Especially considering how we had to vacate our wins after self-reporting violations that occurred as a result of boosters.

Haven't you heard? The NCAA hates us around here.

[Curly Bill]

While you choose to focus on the money/greed factor, I think the SEC/BXII/ACC conferences actually do it because then you have a true conference champ at the end of the season...not a pretend one.

Don't kid yourself, the conferences that play a conference championship game absolutely do not do it so they have a true champion, they do it for the money! If they tell you differently, and I'm sure they would, they are lying out their teeth.

[yoseph]

with all this said i think the best way to make it fair is to have a playoff...i always thought it was a badd idea but if they had a final four ...they could still have the traditional bowl games with one extra game for the top 4 teams....this will show who the best 4 teams are and who deserves to play for the nc...and i can guarantee that OU and LSU would beat Georgia and WV if thats how it played out....

[Curly Bill]

i can guarantee that OU and LSU would beat Georgia and WV if thats how it played out....

If you can guarantee OU and LSU would win then why would we need a playoff? Go ahead and pick the winner between OU and LSU and lets call it good. ;)

I thought the supposed purpose of a playoff is so we could actually prove on the field who's better? ;)

[yoseph]

^^^ very true but the reason i say this is becasue of the position that OU is in right now....there is ALMOST no way they can make it to the nc...if they were in a playoff it would b totally different

[Curly Bill]

We had a chance to be in the NC game. I'm not gonna cry about it now (I did right after the TT game) because we blew OUr chance.

[yoseph]

^^^ this is very true...but i bring this up because of the position that OU is in...we have ALMOST no chance of playing for the nc and if there was a playoff that inclulded us ...we would have a great shot

[Curly Bill]

We had it handed to us on a silver platter and we messed that up!!! Why should there be a playoff to fix what we should have taken care of OUrselves????

[soonersn2007]

I think rankings and claims of being the best just don't apply this year, no team has stood head and shoulders above anyone else.

The media is already framing the game in which OU beat Mizzou as a game that they gave away b/c of those 4th qtr turnovers, funny how our 2 turnovers earlier in the game led to points for them are not given any credence, yet theirs are.

As far as I'm concerned, winning it on the field is the only way to legitimize claims as to being the champion. Until then, it's all about biases and football politics which diminishes the game to a point of almost not wanting to watch it.

[wbg]

Don't you think the round-robin schedule of the Pac-10 is like a prolonged championship game anyway?

Look at the SEC CCG - the current best team, Georgia, won't even play in it.

I will say this - you guys never seem to have an "easy" selection of Big XII North conference games. Texass always seems to luck out, getting everyone in the Big XII North in their down years.

[yoseph]

u guys r all right...we had our chance and blew it....and everything is screwed up this year.....which is y i reccomend a playoff

[Curly Bill]

I will say this - you guys never seem to have an "easy" selection of Big XII North conference games. Texass always seems to luck out, getting everyone in the Big XII North in their down years.

That's part of the anti-OU conspiracy we have to deal with. ;) ;)

[yoseph]

^^^ well said...we have to admit we r all stubborn when we feel like we r getting screwed ...but all we can do do is b the great fans that we r and keep supporting our team!

[ruf/nekdad]

Maybe you should lay off the text messaging for a while.

[Honor&Glory]

I think most of us respect Tressel and OhioSU. There is some holdover on the Maurice Clarett fiasco and how light OhioSU got off on that, though. Especially considering how we had to vacate our wins after self-reporting violations that occurred as a result of boosters.

Haven't you heard? The NCAA hates us around here.

I'll say this (and thank you for the objective post)...the NCAA found no truth in MoC's claims and the Evil Empire that is ESPN had to eat a lot of crow for running with a story based on the word of a liar and a criminal. If you were from around these parts you'd know how bad of a guy MoC was coming out of Warren Harding H.S...I know a lot of Buckeye fans, myself included, who would have rather had DeShawyn Wynn (Cin, OH) than MoC in that recruiting class.

to your post about the championship game:

I would like to see the Big 10 play a round robin every season and I'll conceede that point. The Big East does do that and there shouldn't be a problem with WVU heading to N.O. because of it.


Not trying to win any brownie points around here (yes, I am) but I sincerly like OU football. I was a fan of the triple option and I was an even bigger fan of Brian Bozworth. Jamell (sp?) Holloway was one of my favorite option QB's to watch, etc...plus I really hated Osborne and Nebraska.

[Leroy Lizard]

If the Big-10 wants to designate the team with the shiniest helmets as conference championships, it is none of our concern. Each conference decides in its own way.

As for the conference championship game, we did that to ourselves. We were under no compulsion to create a conference championship game, so the Big-10 and Pac-10 can hardly be blamed for not having one.

[silverwheels]

I think the Pac-10 has the best system, anyway. Ten teams, 9 conference games. No CCG.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'll say this (and thank you for the objective post)...the NCAA found no truth in MoC's claims and the Evil Empire that is ESPN had to eat a lot of crow for running with a story based on the word of a liar and a criminal. If you were from around these parts you'd know how bad of a guy MoC was coming out of Warren Harding H.S...I know a lot of Buckeye fans, myself included, who would have rather had DeShawyn Wynn (Cin, OH) than MoC in that recruiting class.

You got off easy. There was once another bad apple in the 80's named Hart Lee Dykes who made similar claims about our program. Of course, the NCAA bought into everything he said.

By the way, Dykes played for a team that considers us their most hated rival. How would you like to have been penalized for the claims of Clarrett if he had played for Michigan? That is essentially what happened to us.

Just because the claims are unsupported doesn't mean the NCAA has to look the other way. If a player makes an allegation against OU (or any SEC team) you can bet the NCAA will consider their words as good as gold. And if OU (or any SEC team) self-reports the transgression, they will not treated lightly. If Maurice Clarrett had been a Sooner, we would have landed on probation.

Is there any Sooner fan in here that thinks otherwise?

Now watch what happens to USC over the Reggie Bush fiasco. NOTHING. Nothing at all.

[76soonergrad]

Amen.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Double Amen to that! OU NEVER gets breaks from the NCAA.

And to really see what was going on in the 80s with us and the NCAA you don't need to go any further than Bootlegger's Boy. Switzer goes through the charges count by count and it's obvious to anyone with a brain that while some of it was legit, most of the "infractions" that actually happened would be overlooked at almost any other major program and the others were just plain BS.

And look at what happened to Bosworth...

If he was playing for USC or Notre Dame this year and there was even the SLIGHTEST possibility that the only steroids he'd used were doctor prescribed for an injury, he'd not be wearing National Communists Against Athletes shoes while watching from the sideline! He'd be knocking people's heads off!

[CORNholio]

Big 10 Network, no greed there. azhole;)

Total waist of my dish network dollars.

[CORNholio]

u guys r all right...we had our chance and blew it....and everything is screwed up this year.....which is y i reccomend a playoff


That's exactly why i don't support a playoff. We don't deserve it. We'll get there in due time. The world is full of crybabies. Anymore and I think I will implode.

[CORNholio]

The playoff theorists are as shortsided as the "New Deal" socialists of yesteryear.

[cheezyq]

Don't kid yourself, the conferences that play a conference championship game absolutely do not do it so they have a true champion, they do it for the money! If they tell you differently, and I'm sure they would, they are lying out their teeth.

Here's where I'll disagree with you. I think the Big XII conference itself was created for $$$ (or even just for survival, considering the situations/circumstances at the time). The same goes for the SEC, Conference USA, and the Big East, and other conferences that have grown fairly recently.

But when you get into a conference of this size, a CCG becomes a necessity. Otherwise, with only 8-9 playable in-conference games possible, there are 3-4 teams that don't match up every year, and then determining a conference champ (and, most importantly, a BCS representative) is very problematic.

A good example is KU. Suppose OU and KU finish with 1 conference loss. OU (assuming they beat TT) had the tougher road, but KU would get in based on common opponents, or some other tie-breaker. With a CCG, you get an undisputed conference champ.

Regarding the argument for a CCG:

The Big 10 gets by without a CCG most years on luck, because their rivalries and best teams are usually one in the same every year. OSU and UM and Penn State are the top teams nearly every year, and because of their rivalry status they play each other every year. But in an off-year where Iowa or Wisconsin (or, in the future, Illinois) competes for the conference championship, they end up having co-champs. Who goes to the Rose Bowl then? Do you really want a tie-breaker determining that when the teams have never played each other?

It also sets up a scenario where the only two undefeated teams in the country COULD be Big 10/11 teams, placing them both at 1-2 in the BCS. In that case, should they really be allowed to place both in the MNC game just because they chose not to participate in a CCG? Or, even if there is a provision stating that can't happen in the BCS, who gets the MNC invite? Again, do you really want a tie-breaker or the BCS formula deciding that when the teams have never played each other?

Sure, there's money and greed involved. It's college football; it's always going to involve those things. But the CCG itself wasn't put in place for $$$ purposes. And, yes, it sucks to those conferences that have to play it when others don't.

[cvsooner]

As somebody noted on another thread, this year , the conf. championship game actually helps us. Mizzou would already have the title this year without it.

[Desert Sapper]

Can't we all agree that OU rawks, the Big XII is the best conference in the country, and everybody else can just suck it? :D


I like all you bucknut trolls that are crashing Soonerfans and all, but seriously...do you really think your league has it right?

What would your thoughts be if Iowa went undefeated in conference play this year? Would you feel the same way if you only had your 1 loss, Iowa didn't have to play you or Meatchicken, and they were still the sole Big 11 Champs?

Give it a rest about the money, especially with the BIG TEN NETWORK glaring back at everybody this year. When the NBC deal finally collapses on Jesus' Mama U, maybe you midwest-in-common folks can invite them into your exclusive country club and have a champeenship game. :rolleyes:

[Stoop Dawg]

That's exactly why i don't support a playoff. We don't deserve it. We'll get there in due time.

So when you consider the merits of a playoff system, you consider only how it will affect OU?


The playoff theorists are as shortsided as the "New Deal" socialists of yesteryear.

And *I* am the short-sighted one?