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Jerk
11/23/2007, 10:39 AM
Ike - someone - 'splain this to me? This is batsh*t crazy!

Mankind 'shortening the universe's life'
By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 21/11/2007


Forget about the threat that mankind poses to the Earth: our activities may be shortening the life of the universe too.

The startling claim is made by a pair of American cosmologists investigating the consequences for the cosmos of quantum theory, the most successful theory we have. Over the past few years, cosmologists have taken this powerful theory of what happens at the level of subatomic particles and tried to extend it to understand the universe, since it began in the subatomic realm during the Big Bang.


Cosmologists claim by observing dark energy the universe has been nudged closer to its death


But there is an odd feature of the theory that philosophers and scientists still argue about. In a nutshell, the theory suggests that we change things simply by looking at them and theorists have puzzled over the implications for years.

They often illustrate their concerns about what the theory means with boggling mind experiments, notably Schrodinger's cat in which, thanks to a fancy experimental set up, the moggy is both alive and dead until someone decides to look, when it either carries on living, or dies. That is, by one interpetation (by another, the universe splits into two, one with a live cat and one with a dead one.)

New Scientist reports a worrying new variant as the cosmologists claim that astronomers may have accidentally nudged the universe closer to its death by observing dark energy, a mysterious anti gravity force which is thought to be speeding up the expansion of the cosmos.

The damaging allegations are made by Profs Lawrence Krauss of Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and James Dent of Vanderbilt University, Nashville, who suggest that by making this observation in 1998 we may have caused the cosmos to revert to an earlier state when it was more likely to end. "Incredible as it seems, our detection of the dark energy may have reduced the life-expectancy of the universe," Prof Krauss tells New Scientist.

The team came to this depressing conclusion by calculating how the energy state of our universe - a kind of summation of all its particles and all their energies - has evolved since the big bang of creation 13.7 billion years ago.

Some mathematical theories suggest that, in the very beginning, there was a void that possessed energy but was devoid of substance. Then the void changed, converting energy into the hot matter of the big bang. But the team suggests that the void did not convert as much energy to matter as it could, retaining some, in the form of what we now call dark energy, which now accelerates the expansion of the cosmos.

Like the decay of a radioactive atom, such shifts in energy state happen at random and it is possible that this could trigger a new big bang. The good news is that theory suggests that the universe should remain in its current state. But the bad is that quantum theory says that whenever we observe or measure something, we could stop it decaying due what is what is called the "quantum Zeno effect," which suggests that if an "observer" makes repeated, quick observations of a microscopic object undergoing change, the object can stop changing - just as a watched kettle never boils.

In this case however, it turns out that quantum mechanics implies that if an unstable system has survived for far longer than the average such system should, then the probability that it will continue to survive decreases more slowly than it otherwise would. By resetting the clock, the survival probability would now once again fall exponentially.

"The intriguing question is this," Prof Krauss told the Telegraph. "If we attempt to apply quantum mechanics to the universe as a whole, and if our present state is unstable, then what sets the clock that governs decay? Once we determine our current state by observations, have we reset the clock? If so, as incredible as it may seem, our detection of dark energy may have reduced the life expectancy of our universe."

Prof Krauss says that the measurement of the light from supernovae in 1998, which provided evidence of dark energy, may have reset the decay of the void to zero - back to a point when the likelihood of its surviving was falling rapidly. "In short, we may have snatched away the possibility of long-term survival for our universe and made it more likely it will decay," says Prof Krauss. Not all agree, since his interpretation hinges on one of the issues at the heart of quantum theory - do you need people to do the observing?

This is not the only damage to the heavens that astronomers may have caused. Our cosmos is now significantly lighter than scientists had thought after an analysis of the amount of light given out by galaxies concluded that some shone from lightweight electrons, not heavyweight atoms. In all, the new analysis suggests that the universe has lost about one fifth of its overall mass.

The discovery was made while trying to analyze clusters of galaxies - the largest cosmological structures in the universe - and is not the result of a cosmological diet but a major rethink of how to interpret x-rays produced by the clusters.

Five years ago, a team at the University of Alabama in Huntsville lead by Prof Richard Lieu reported finding large amounts of extra "soft" (relatively low-energy) x-rays coming from the vast space in the middle of galaxy clusters. Although the atoms that emitted them were thought to be spread thinly through space (less than one atom per cubit metre), they would have filled billions of billions of cubic light years.

Their cumulative mass was thought to account for as much as ten percent of the mass and gravity needed to hold together galaxies, galaxy clusters and perhaps the universe itself. But now the team has taken a closer look at data gathered by several satellite instruments, including the Chandra X-ray Observatory and have had a major rethink about these soft X-rays, the bottom line being that this chunk of the universe should now be discounted.

The reason is that the soft x-rays thought to come from intergalactic clouds of atomic gas probably emanated from lightweight electrons instead.

If the source of so much x-ray energy is tiny electrons instead of hefty atoms, it is says the team as if billions of lights thought to come from billions of aircraft carriers were found instead to come from billions of extremely bright fireflies.

"This means the mass of these x-ray emitting clouds is much less than we initially thought it was," said Dr. Max Bonamente. Instead, they are produced by electrons travelling almost the speed of light (and therefore "relativistic").

The discovery may also change what we think is the mix of elements in the universe because these soft x rays mask the tell tale x ray emissions of iron and other metals. "This is also telling us there is fractionally more iron and other metals than we previously thought," said Bonamente. "Less mass but more metals."

Results of this research by Bonamente, Jukka Nevalainen of Finland's Helsinki Observatory and Prof Lieu have been published in the Astrophysical Journal.

The calculated mass of the universe ranges anywhere from 10 to the power of 53 kg to 10 to the power of 60 kg and is complicated by the fact that there is invisible matter we cannot see, called dark matter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/11/21/scicosmos121.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox

OKLA21FAN
11/23/2007, 10:41 AM
Cosmologists claim by observing dark energy the universe has been nudged closer to its death

Since when does people selling Mary Kay know anything about science? :pop:

soonerbrat
11/23/2007, 10:57 AM
they're almost as kooky as these people

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Jerk
11/23/2007, 11:08 AM
they're almost as kooky as these people

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm (http://www.alaska.net/%7Eclund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm)

:eek:

badger
11/23/2007, 11:16 AM
Dear Celebrities,

(like Al Gore)

If you're going to preach to us about global warming, at least do it after taking a commercial flight and arriving in a hybrid car... you kind of spread your message on deaf ears when you fly the world in a private jet and drive the streets in a stretch Hummer limo.

rufnek05
11/23/2007, 11:38 AM
just watch "The arraival" with charlie sheen. It's all about global warming....and aliens.

Ike
11/23/2007, 01:52 PM
God I hate it when reporters talk to crackpots.


It's like reading Gregg Easterbrook on science all over again. Please, make it stop.

OUinFLA
11/23/2007, 03:46 PM
Ike - someone - 'splain this to me? This is batsh*t crazy!

Mankind 'shortening the universe's life'
By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 21/11/2007

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.............................
blah, blah, blah, blah............We are doomed.


So?

GottaHavePride
11/23/2007, 11:31 PM
they're almost as kooky as these people

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm (http://www.alaska.net/%7Eclund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm)

What, you mean some people don't believe in the Great A'Tuin? ;)

Ash
11/24/2007, 12:19 AM
My experience with "theories" like this are that they arise from quasi-metaphysical academic arguments among philosphers of science. And like most useless philosphical crap, are best left to be argued by philosphers and ignored by the rest of us.

Or they're crackpots like Ike said.

StoopTroup
11/24/2007, 12:37 AM
Does a Bear S**t in the woods?

Only if your watching.

They like an audience.

Ike
11/24/2007, 12:55 AM
My experience with "theories" like this are that they arise from quasi-metaphysical academic arguments among philosphers of science. And like most useless philosphical crap, are best left to be argued by philosphers and ignored by the rest of us.

Or they're crackpots like Ike said.

Well, with quantum mechanics, there's a lot of philosophy to go around...primarily because nobody really understands it. It is an environment ripe for crackpots.

Frozen Sooner
11/24/2007, 01:00 AM
Dark matter is anti-gravitic?

WTF? Do these people have any idea what they're talking about? The existence of dark matter was posited because of it's gravitic effects.

Vaevictis
11/24/2007, 01:15 AM
New Scientist reports a worrying new variant as the cosmologists claim that astronomers may have accidentally nudged the universe closer to its death by observing dark energy, a mysterious anti gravity force which is thought to be speeding up the expansion of the cosmos.

Just FWIW, dark matter != dark energy.

Jello Biafra
11/24/2007, 01:16 AM
so.....

the universe only has maybe 10 billion years left compared to the "estimated" 12.7 billion before mankind was around?!?!?

wow

Ike
11/24/2007, 01:16 AM
Dark matter is anti-gravitic?

WTF? Do these people have any idea what they're talking about? The existence of dark matter was posited because of it's gravitic effects.

No. Dark Energy is.

They are two separate phenomena.

Harry Beanbag
11/24/2007, 01:48 AM
That's almost the dumbest thing I've ever read.

crawfish
11/24/2007, 10:25 AM
Just to be safe, I'm not lookin'.

Frozen Sooner
11/24/2007, 12:42 PM
No. Dark Energy is.

They are two separate phenomena.

Ah. Obviously, I have no idea WTF I'm talking about. Carry on.

SoonerGirl06
11/24/2007, 01:40 PM
OMG! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Jerk
11/24/2007, 02:00 PM
OMG! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Only if somebody observes it!

SoonerGirl06
11/24/2007, 02:27 PM
With their rose colored glasses of course.

bluedogok
11/24/2007, 02:40 PM
LUKE....come to the dark side......

olevetonahill
11/24/2007, 03:09 PM
Ok heres My .02 worth Yall ready ?
Iffen them dayum Dianasors didnt want this world warming up , Why in hell they Die all at oncet and turn to OIL ? Answer me that one smart dudes !

StormySooner-IN
11/24/2007, 03:21 PM
Ok heres My .02 worth Yall ready ?
Iffen them dayum Dianasors didnt want this world warming up , Why in hell they Die all at oncet and turn to OIL ? Answer me that one smart dudes !:D

olevetonahill
11/24/2007, 03:28 PM
:D
they cant do it can they ? :D

SCOUT
11/24/2007, 04:43 PM
Does this have anything to do with daylight savings time?

SoonerGirl06
11/24/2007, 05:11 PM
Or PMS?

Jerk
11/24/2007, 06:59 PM
I just saw that we kicked OSUck's a.ss

It has been observed, thus it is official.

When we got the big lead, I kept gazing at dark matter, and sped time up.

BudSooner
11/24/2007, 08:18 PM
I have no opinion, carry on.

olevetonahill
11/24/2007, 08:31 PM
I aint sure

Mixer!
11/25/2007, 02:12 AM
Heisenberg must be rolling over in his grave.

Ike
11/26/2007, 02:22 AM
Just so you know, if you want to understand more about this and why it's bunk, Chad Orzel, of Uncertain Principles at ScienceBlogs has hinted that he might touch on this in his upcomming book. If you don't remember some of my mentions of Chad, thats OK. He was the originator of the (IMHO hilarious) "bunnies made of cheese" post that I replicated here at some point, and his book deal is for more explanations of physics in the context of conversations with his bat**** crazy dog.

I honestly can't wait to read this book, and it's likely that everyone (and their dog!) will be able to gain an understanding of some of the complex phenomena of modern physics through it.

crawfish
11/26/2007, 08:42 AM
I peeked. Accidentally. I'm sorry. :O

Chuck Bao
11/26/2007, 09:22 AM
Ike, please post when this book is available on Amazon.

This may be crackpot stuff, but I think observing the cosmos is bringing reality into being.

Mankind has been observing the stars for thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of years. It is just I think that the more we observe, the more reality we create. And, that reality is more open to chance. That is the crackpot's point, isn't it?

So, I still have a chance of dating Scarlett Johansson. That's all I need to know.

Ike
11/26/2007, 01:21 PM
Ike, please post when this book is available on Amazon.

This may be crackpot stuff, but I think observing the cosmos is bringing reality into being.

Mankind has been observing the stars for thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of years. It is just I think that the more we observe, the more reality we create. And, that reality is more open to chance. That is the crackpot's point, isn't it?

So, I still have a chance of dating Scarlett Johansson. That's all I need to know.

It'll probably be a while. He announced his book deal on his blog just a couple of months ago, and while he indicates that he is approximately halfway to his goal for the book, I'm sure that the editing and publishing phase will take some time....

But when I hear about it I'll post about it.

BTW, his book is more of a quantum mechanics book....thats where the real crazy stuff happens.

OklahomaTuba
11/26/2007, 01:37 PM
I figured Chuck Norris had something to do with it.

IB4OU2
11/26/2007, 01:58 PM
I just saw that we kicked OSUck's a.ss

It has been observed, thus it is official.

When we got the big lead, I kept gazing at dark matter, and sped time up.

Never look before you flush.