Talent Question...

[TMcGee86]

There has been a lot of talk on here about our lack of talent and that being the reason for the two losses this year.

I'm not saying I agree with that notion or not.

It just got me thinking.

I believe Bob Stoops is a much better coach than Les Miles.

I believe the SEC is at least compareable in strength to the Big 12. Some would say it's much better, others would argue it's overrated. Either way, it's at least comparable to the Big 12, if not better.


With those two thoughts in mind, it would stand to reason that LSU is a more talented squad than OU this year.

Now I admit, I have not seen all the Tiger games this year. I have seen maybe two full games, and parts of about three others.

I know they have a good defense.


But position by position, what guys do LSU have that are obviously more talented than those we have at the same position?


QB? Sure he's a senior, but is he that much more talented than Sam?

RB? I wouldn't trade our three deep for theirs, am I missing something?

O-line? I have no idea about the quality of their o-line.

WRs? They have talent there, but more than OU?

TE? I would be surprised.


D-Line I would obviously give to them.

LB? Not real sure.

DBs? I think they are probably better at safety, but CB I'm not sure.



So where is it? Wheres the big difference that makes them a better team? How have they avoided upsets thus far? How do we have a supposed lack of talent but they dont?


Some of you LSU guys feel free to enlighten me.

[OU_Sooners75]

Top to bottom, LSU is probably the most talented team in the country this season. They are also have 19 seniors on their roster. As of 11/12/07, LSU depth chart shows 14 of their senior listed as starters. Compared to OU's rosters, OU has 19 seniors as well, but only 7 of them are listed as starters, even though Zaslaw does not start the every game, though he does play in it.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I dont think its a matter of talent. ryan leaf had as much talent as anybody.

Its a matter of concentration and discipline in what your doing IMO that seems to hurt OU.

[hink4769]

Fumbles Lost:
LSU - 2 (leads the nation)
OU - 11 (tied for 81st)

Thats a big difference between LSU and OU. I don't think there's must talent differential between the two teams, but that stat says they hold onto the ball better which is more important than running a 4.3 40 or having Walter Payton juke moves.

[Curly Bill]

I really don't intend this to be a bag on Venables post...but I really truly feel that LSU uses the talent they have better on the "D" side of the ball.

We are one of the four or five most talented teams in the country: in no particular order: LSU, SUC, OU, Ohio St, Florida.

[douxpaysan]

It just got me thinking.

I believe Bob Stoops is a much better coach than Les Miles..
I think this isn't true. Les Miles is a good coach and at least comparable. We have some problems with injuries and depth on defense. The offensive line is making alot of mental errors and run blocking schemes aren't working consistently enough. More importantly the intangibles of team leadership need to be addressed. This is a good team with alot of potential but they need to turn all those corners to be a great team. I don't think LSU is a great team eiether...at least not yet.

[douxpaysan]

Fumbles Lost:
LSU - 2 (leads the nation)
OU - 11 (tied for 81st)

Thats a big difference between LSU and OU. I don't think there's must talent differential between the two teams, but that stat says they hold onto the ball better which is more important than running a 4.3 40 or having Walter Payton juke moves.
How did AP lose that fumble in the first series? I keep running that play over and over and I can't see the cause. I don't think it was contact. Was it a bad exchange with SB?:pop:

[Johnny Utah]

Good post! It appears that in the "tale of the tape" we match up well with LSU on the offensive side of the ball, but the ?s are on defense (and I don't really want to bag on Venables either). At this time of the day I'm too lazy to actually check this out, but I would also suspect that OU is more "mature" on the defensive side of the ball. After all, LSU got lit up for over 400 yards by Ole Miss last Saturday, but still found a way to win. So is it coaching, or bringing a "refuse to lose" attitude, or (dare I say) swagger?

[Leroy Lizard]

Is there really that much difference between the two teams? There is only one touchdown that separates their records over 11 weeks. I wouldn't go generalizing too much over such a small difference.

[LSUdeek]

Good post! It appears that in the "tale of the tape" we match up well with LSU on the offensive side of the ball, but the ?s are on defense (and I don't really want to bag on Venables either). At this time of the day I'm too lazy to actually check this out, but I would also suspect that OU is more "mature" on the defensive side of the ball. After all, LSU got lit up for over 400 yards by Ole Miss last Saturday, but still found a way to win. So is it coaching, or bringing a "refuse to lose" attitude, or (dare I say) swagger?
Brent Schaeffer brought a running attack that LSU had trouble with because half of our defensive line was injured and our middle linebacker was also out. We forced 2 turnovers in the red zone. If Beckwith doesn't return and Dorsey is allowed to play at 70%, I fear McFadden will run for many yards.

We aren't #2 in the country because we allowed that many yards each game.

[goingoneight]

Honestly, turnovers and injuries are what makes us less than LSU at this point. If you told me to pin LSU and OU up at the time of say, the Miami game... we'd be just experienced enough at QB to make for a monster game.

Coaching? I dislike Lester as much as the next guy, but he IS 2-2 versus Stoops. He also has one of Stoops's former assistants running a very good defense, something he never had at OSU... so I'd say coaching is probably a push. Neither are afraid to gamble for a big win as history shows.

[LSUdeek]

I believe Bob Stoops is a much better coach than Les Miles.

I'd say most on this forum do. I think Miles' strength so far at LSU has been his ability to manage the program by hiring the best coordinators in football. This year our offensive attack has been far more unpredictable than previous years under Jimbo, and we also have a tendency to exploit the weaknesses of opposing teams (We passed for over 300 yards against Auburn and Alabama, and then rushed for over 200 against Ole Miss while passing for only 168)



QB? Sure he's a senior, but is he that much more talented than Sam?

I don't know. I'd give him the edge for simply having 5 years of program experience. You guys have not been too impressed with him this season. Matt Mauck didn't play all that great in our big games in 2003, but we won a championship then.



RB? I wouldn't trade our three deep for theirs, am I missing something?

Most outside the conference aren't impressed with Jacob Hester, but I think his stats speak for themselves. In addition to Hester, we have a five star in Keiland Williams, and 2 4 stars in Scott and Murphy backing him up. Not to mention the fastest player in college football.




RUSHING GP Att Gain Loss Net Avg TD Long Avg/G
-----------------------------------------------------------Jacob Hester 11 153 785 14 771 5.0 9 87 70.1
K. Williams 11 53 390 13 377 7.1 6 67 34.3
Charles Scott 11 42 320 6 314 7.5 5 55 28.5
T. Holliday 11 44 310 17 293 6.7 2 33 26.6
Richard Murphy 11 32 207 10 197 6.2 2 53 17.9


OU:



RUSHING GP Att Gain Loss Net Avg TD Long Avg/G
-----------------------------------------------------------
Murray, DeMarco (http://www.fansonly.com/schools/okla/sports/m-footbl/mtt/murray_demarco00.html) 11 127 787 23 764 6.0 13 92 69.5
Patrick, Allen (http://www.fansonly.com/schools/okla/sports/m-footbl/mtt/patrick_allen00.html) 10 117 657 20 637 5.4 5 69 63.7
Brown, Chris (http://www.fansonly.com/schools/okla/sports/m-footbl/mtt/brown_chris00.html) 10 100 426 12 414 4.1 5 17 41.4
Madu, Mossis (http://www.fansonly.com/schools/okla/sports/m-footbl/mtt/madu_mossis00.html) 11 29 178 9 169 5.8 2 55 15.4



I think it's fairly clear who's got the edge.
Chris Brown would be at LSU if it weren't for our glut. :)


O-line? I have no idea about the quality of their o-line.



OU gets the edge here, because Saban left the cupboard more than bare in this department and we have a couple of converted D-linemen on the right side of the line. We are fine at run blocking, but have problems against the pass rush. I still say Loadholt should be at our school!


WRs? They have talent there, but more than OU?

I'd take Doucet, Byrd, Toliver, and Lafell over your group, but I don't know if it's a slam dunk.


TE? I would be surprised.

The edge goes to OU here with Gresham slightly edging Dickson and Joe John being miles ahead of our backups Zinger and Cole.


DBs? I think they are probably better at safety, but CB I'm not sure.

We each have a player on the Thorpe semifinalist list, and I'd take Chevis over most if not every corner in the country. Edge LSU.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Blah...Blah...

Sooners still Rule!

[CORNholio]

I'd say most on this forum do. I think Miles' strength so far at LSU has been his ability to manage the program by hiring the best coordinators in football. This year our offensive attack has been far more unpredictable than previous years under Jimbo, and we also have a tendency to exploit the weaknesses of opposing teams (We passed for over 300 yards against Auburn and Alabama, and then rushed for over 200 against Ole Miss while passing for only 168)



I don't know. I'd give him the edge for simply having 5 years of program experience. You guys have not been too impressed with him this season. Matt Mauck didn't play all that great in our big games in 2003, but we won a championship then.



Most outside the conference aren't impressed with Jacob Hester, but I think his stats speak for themselves. In addition to Hester, we have a five star in Keiland Williams, and 2 4 stars in Scott and Murphy backing him up. Not to mention the fastest player in college football.




RUSHING GP Att Gain Loss Net Avg TD Long Avg/G
-----------------------------------------------------------Jacob Hester 11 153 785 14 771 5.0 9 87 70.1
K. Williams 11 53 390 13 377 7.1 6 67 34.3
Charles Scott 11 42 320 6 314 7.5 5 55 28.5
T. Holliday 11 44 310 17 293 6.7 2 33 26.6
Richard Murphy 11 32 207 10 197 6.2 2 53 17.9


OU:



RUSHING GP Att Gain Loss Net Avg TD Long Avg/G
-----------------------------------------------------------
Murray, DeMarco (http://www.fansonly.com/schools/okla/sports/m-footbl/mtt/murray_demarco00.html) 11 127 787 23 764 6.0 13 92 69.5
Patrick, Allen (http://www.fansonly.com/schools/okla/sports/m-footbl/mtt/patrick_allen00.html) 10 117 657 20 637 5.4 5 69 63.7
Brown, Chris (http://www.fansonly.com/schools/okla/sports/m-footbl/mtt/brown_chris00.html) 10 100 426 12 414 4.1 5 17 41.4
Madu, Mossis (http://www.fansonly.com/schools/okla/sports/m-footbl/mtt/madu_mossis00.html) 11 29 178 9 169 5.8 2 55 15.4



I think it's fairly clear who's got the edge.
Chris Brown would be at LSU if it weren't for our glut. :)


OU gets the edge here, because Saban left the cupboard more than bare in this department and we have a couple of converted D-linemen on the right side of the line. We are fine at run blocking, but have problems against the pass rush. I still say Loadholt should be at our school!



I'd take Doucet, Byrd, Toliver, and Lafell over your group, but I don't know if it's a slam dunk.



The edge goes to OU here with Gresham slightly edging Dickson and Joe John being miles ahead of our backups Zinger and Cole.



We each have a player on the Thorpe semifinalist list, and I'd take Chevis over most if not every corner in the country. Edge LSU.

Homer much?

LSU is good but not great just like OU and about 7 other teams this year. They don't have some kind of mystical talent advantage. This whole argument is just splitting hairs.
Truth is they got the bounces this year. Good for them. Somebody gets the bounces every year that seperate them from the rest of the good teams.

[soonerboomer93]

considering he was responding to a homer post, then yeah, he can homer

[ruf/nekdad]

Pardon me for repeating myself from another thread but.....IMHO one could boil this entire football discussion down to this; directing 19-22 year old young males is like herding cats. Talent?, Logic and reasoning?, skills? ...pfft. The little head and the ego, they rule the thought process. Been there, got the T shirt.

[TMcGee86]

considering he was responding to a homer post, then yeah, he can homer

yeah, I was actually hoping to get a LSU homer response.


I think most of you are right, it really boils down to some breaks here and there and we are the same team.

I guess I just started this season off thinking LSU was a much more talented team than OU, and now that I look at it, I'm not so sure.

But I'm concerned that we dont seem to be getting as much out of our guys.

I guess this is pretty silly though, considering if Bradford doesnt go down, more than likely we are looking at the same record and our one loss coming in more of a fluke fashion.

I think it's a good point though that Lester surrounds himself with great coordinators. I am not bashing Venables, as I too didn't intend anything like that with this thread, but I dont really know that I would consider him "great".

Then again, our D wasn't that remarkable as I remember when we had Bo on our squad.

This season hurts my brain. :mad:

[Curly Bill]

The little head and the ego, they rule the thought process. Been there, got the T shirt.

There's a T-shirt? Why didn't I get a T-shirt? :mad:

[BIG_IKE]

I think LSU has more raw talent than we do. We compensate with our coaching. Hell, Texass probably has more talent than we do. But they also have a soft coach (although successful) and a dumb OC.

I know LSU did sign the Top QB in Texas and the 4 best receivers this past year.

Speaking of...

Why the HECK did we not go after Dez Bryant from Lufkin?!?!
The Pokes snatched him and he is a beast. I watched him his senior year. A Man playing among boys. He is gonna be a great receiver.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

We had a bunch of talent at a number of positions. Especially on offense. Maybe the team is a year away from really hitting on all cylinders.

Defensively we have a lot of individual talent. You can argue whether or not Venables gets the most of the talent but on the flip side it is pretty much unanimously agreed that BV is not only the best recruiter on the staff but also one of the best in the whole country. So he is largely responsible for getting a lot of the talent here.

I think the story is at DE. When English is in there and healthy we get a pretty good pass rush our defense is pretty good. We are real good at DT. Losing John Williams at the start of the season really hurt. An average secondary can look real good with a good pass rush. On the flip side even a good secondary can be exposed if you don't get a pass rush. See the TT game.

Just my opinion but if we can find one other DE opposite English next year the D could really take off.

[Johnny Utah]

Brent Schaeffer brought a running attack that LSU had trouble with because half of our defensive line was injured and our middle linebacker was also out. We forced 2 turnovers in the red zone. If Beckwith doesn't return and Dorsey is allowed to play at 70%, I fear McFadden will run for many yards.

We aren't #2 in the country because we allowed that many yards each game.

I was actually trying to pay LSU a (backhanded) compliment ... please don't be like all the overly defensive/sensitive SEC fans I'm surrounded by here in the ATL.

[PhiDeltBeers]

Good post! It appears that in the "tale of the tape" we match up well with LSU on the offensive side of the ball, but the ?s are on defense (and I don't really want to bag on Venables either). At this time of the day I'm too lazy to actually check this out, but I would also suspect that OU is more "mature" on the defensive side of the ball. After all, LSU got lit up for over 400 yards by Ole Miss last Saturday, but still found a way to win. So is it coaching, or bringing a "refuse to lose" attitude, or (dare I say) swagger?


We gave up over 450 yards to Baylor of all schools. Not real sure but that probably doubled their total yards for the season!

[Johnny Utah]

I have a question for LSUdeek or any other SEC fan surfing this forum. It's a little off topic, but it's a slow "news" day.

How come, when the players of teams such as OU or TOSU make a big play they act like it's business as usual, or "they've been there before". However, when the players of most of the SEC teams make a big play they act like they've just won their CCG or the MNC for their team?

I'll "hang up and listen" ... and have a Happy Thanksgiving!

[LSUdeek]

I have a question for LSUdeek or any other SEC fan surfing this forum. It's a little off topic, but it's a slow "news" day.

How come, when the players of teams such as OU or TOSU make a big play they act like it's business as usual, or "they've been there before". However, when the players of most of the SEC teams make a big play they act like they've just won their CCG or the MNC for their team?

I'll "hang up and listen" ... and have a Happy Thanksgiving!
I'd say it's most likely a reflection on our coaches. Our coaches are not known for being disciplinarians. Saban's players did not play that way while he was at LSU. However, there needs to be a balance. The kids have to have fun when they play the game, and I think maybe OU has lost that a little.

Miles, Meyer, Fulmer, Richt, Nutt, Spurrier... all players' coaches.

[starclassic tama]

LSU isn't very good on defense. they have talent, but they aren't playing very well right now. this OU team has as much talent as anyone else in the country, this is a stupid topic.

[Johnny Utah]

I'd say it's most likely a reflection on our coaches. Our coaches are not known for being disciplinarians. Saban's players did not play that way while he was at LSU. However, there needs to be a balance. The kids have to have fun when they play the game, and I think maybe OU has lost that a little.

Miles, Meyer, Fulmer, Richt, Nutt, Spurrier... all players' coaches.

Thanks. I'm not a big fan of that type of behavior, however, I agree that OU has lost that more than just a little. I also think that could be ONE of the reasons why TOSU got blownout so in the MNC. I'd really like to see the Sooners get some of their nasty good rep back.