John Bible needs to be "retired"...

[SoonerStormchaser]

I waited to re-watch the game tape from last night so I wouldn't shoot from the hip (*du-dum crash*). Say what you will about that touchdown call, but I can't, for the life of me, come up with any excuse as to why John Bible is blind enough that he can't see all the holding penalties that Texas Tech committed last night, especially in the first half. On their first three touchdown drives alone, I counted ten holds by their o-line, half of which were against whoever was blocking Granger. And the majority of them were on third and long situations where Harrel got off the pass just in time. But watch out if there is even a shadow of a doubt that OU was guilty of holding...*whistle* "Holding against OU!" This is the second game this year that Bible's calls and "non-calls" have been especially detrimental to OU (the other being that call about grabbing that CU players hair...there's no such rule against it)...and I, for one, can't help but wonder just why he is allowed to continuously ref OU games. It's pretty clear that, if it's OU's opponent, he doesn't know holding if it jumped up and kicked him in the balls.

Ok, rant over. I still feel like total **** for the way the guys played last night...but it's only a game. Get well Sam, Demarco and Adron.

[sooner59]

....and Alan Davis. We had a bunch of people hurt.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

the other being that call about grabbing that CU players hair...there's no such rule against it

Yes and no...

There is specifically a rule concerning hair... I'm too lazy to look it up now, but it basically reads that anything protruding from underneath the uniform such as underclothing or a towel (and including hair) shall be considered a part of the uniform and therefore allowable for a defender to use to stop the progress of a ball carrier.

However, look at it this way... if a player, away from the actual play itself, grabbed another player by the arm and violently swung him around into the benches, that most certainly would be the same call: personal foul-unnecessary roughness.

Anyway, overall I agree with you. Bible does seem to be biased against OU... always calls OU very tight and lets the other team play it very loose.

[85sooners]

pull the hair!!!!!!!

[aurorasooner]

Anyway, overall I agree with you. Bible does seem to be biased against OU... always calls OU very tight and lets the other team play it very loose. Pretty good assessment of Bible's officiating, I'd say.

[oudivesherpa]

The Big XII seems to be trying to save expense money, by having local refs call games. You should not be allowed to ref a game within 100 miles of your home town and you should no be allowed to ref a game within your home state. Ceasar's wife syndrom.

[Sooner Eclipse]

He needs to be retired like my grandpa use to "retire" lame horses.

[Sco]

always calls OU very tight and lets the other team play it very loose.

That's what she said? :pop:

[bluedogok]

Pulling the hair is a penalty in college, it is not in the NFL.

If you watch any game, there has been very little holding called in any game all year. It seems officials at all levels have made a very concerted effort not to call it unless if is absolutely flagrant and out in the open.....and sometimes they don't call it. I don't care as long as they call (or don't call) it evenly. I don't have too many gripes about the officiating last night, I just expect all officiating to be consistently poor anymore. It is the main reason why I don't watch basketball anymore, the officiating just drives me nuts.

Here is an article by Kirk Bohls in today's Austin American Statesman addressing officiating.

Statesman.com - COMMENTARY: KIRK BOHLS - Officiating a problem or problematic? (http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/11/18/1118bohls.html)
Zebras need to improve.
Sunday, November 18, 2007

More than any other things, people gripe about the weather and college football officiating. Generally speaking, they see little hope for improvement in the latter.

That includes coaches.

When one Big 12 head coach, who will remain nameless and therefore fineless, was asked if the league's officiating has improved since last season, he said, "I think it's worse."

Another head coach said, "I'd agree with my colleague."

Sadly, I'd agree as well, even though this space has been very supportive of zebras and thinks officials have the most thankless jobs in sports outside of Barry Bonds' publicist.

The outcry over perceived poor officiating has gotten loud enough that the conferences should agree to adopt a national pool of officials to avoid some — but never all — accusations of bias.

Dan Beebe isn't sure about a national pool, but the new Big 12 commissioner is pushing more conversations about regionalized officiating crews. College football also will formally adopt a much-needed national coordinator of officials along the lines of basketball's Hank Nichols. It needs the perception that someone, anyone, is in charge.

Among the obstacles to a national pool would be the greater cost of flying officials all over the nation as well as individual conferences' desires for autonomy in hiring their own officials and regions' different philosophies of officiating.

"But I'm not sure those are things that can't be overcome," Beebe said.

When a BCS berth guarantees a conference $17 million with a second BCS appearance bringing in another $4.5 million, cries of too much expense fall flat.

The Big 12 has taken a lead role in this area.

It conducted a weekend clinic for more than 200 officials in Dallas last July. It was the first to contract the services of Las Vegas Sports Consultants as part of its $60,000 gambling prevention and detection program to study the movements of betting lines and any suspicious play.

It hired Walt Anderson of the NFL as the league's new supervisor, and he assigns officials their schedules only through the first eight weeks so as to correctly reward the higher-rated crews the more important games in November.

Why is there a perceived decline in officiating quality? Take your pick of reasons.

Refs are more hesitant to make as many calls because of the eye-in-the-sky that is instant-replay review.

Instant-replay monitors dislike overruling their peers on the field.

Holding is called less because of liberalized rules.

A flawed replay system doesn't fix enough mistakes, only the most obvious ones, but not always then. As much goes uncalled as is corrected. Ask Mike Leach.

A pecking order of officials exists, with the best refs reserved for the highest-profile games all year and the worst-rated refs relegated to games involving the also-ran teams, creating unrest. As Beebe said, "One person's good crew is another person's bad crew."

You get what you pay for, and college referees make only about $1,000 a game, excluding per-diem and travel allowances, with the rest of the seven-man crew making less.

The best refs quickly graduate to the NFL, where the pay is based on seniority and a first-year official can command $2,300 per game and a 20-year ref up to $8,200 per game.

There's not sufficient training for the less accomplished officials.

Some officials subconsciously favor the marquee schools because they want job security and fear a negative backlash from the top programs could jeopardize their careers.

Asked how he'd upgrade officiating, Beebe said, "I'd like to develop robots that never make a mistake."

But wouldn't they be biased in favor of the Tech-nological schools?

All should worry about the harsh criticism and undue scrutiny on a select group who leave their families on weekends, spend hours in reviews and homework during the week and perform their jobs without glory because of their love of the game.

To avoid the kind of bias that Leach complained about to the tune of a Big 12-record $10,000 fine, the league already has in place a philosophy guarding against conflicts of interests. Leach charged Austin-based but nationally respected referee Randy Christal and his crew with being "a complete travesty" after Tech's loss to Texas last weekend.

It'd be difficult to keep officials from working games in the Big 12 cities in which they live because at least 90 percent of the conference's 67 officials live "within the geographic footprint of the Big 12," league spokesman Bob Burda said.

Referee Clete Blakeman, whose crew disallowed two potential game-tying Colorado field goals in the final seconds against Iowa State for delay of game and then for an expired clock, is barred from working any Nebraska games because he lettered as a Cornhuskers quarterback for three seasons.

Another ref is forbidden to work any Missouri games because he works as a Coca-Cola distributor and has a business relationship with that school.

It'd be very hard to speak for the integrity of all officials, but we've yet to discover a Tim Donaghy at the college level.

"I'm not going to be blindly defensive of the officials," Beebe said, "but I worry about the pounding these officials take. The majority of the officials are good people who are absolutely crushed when it's revealed they make a mistake. We're getting to a place where fewer and fewer are going to want to do this."

Another suggestion out of left field: Let head coaches referee games on their off weeks. That'd provide some empathy. But something needs to be done.

Mostly, I prefer the human element over replay cameras. I just want the best humans possible making those calls.


The Big XII seems to be trying to save expense money, by having local refs call games. You should not be allowed to ref a game within 100 miles of your home town and you should no be allowed to ref a game within your home state. Ceasar's wife syndrom.
WRONG....John Bible and Randy Christal live in Austin, that is WAY further from Lubbock than 100 miles. I have seem them do Iowa State and Kansas games. In fact, it is probably more expensive to fly guys into Lubbock from Austin than it is to OKC, Kansas City or St. Louis for a North game. There just aren't as many airlines flying into Lubbock as there is the larger cities.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Only 1000 per game for a referee? That sounds like pretty good money for a weekend gig to me

[bluedogok]

Only 1000 per game for a referee? That sounds like pretty good money for a weekend gig to me
It takes a long time to get to that level of pay, you work a bunch of $60 dollar youth games to get to that level. It takes years of working up the ladder both in game experience and politics. It is also on a contract basis so you pay all of your own taxes out of that. Bible used to be in the NFL and was not retained after a couple of seasons.

My wife was a football official here in the Austin district with Bible and Christal, she worked a bunch of youth, Jr. High and smaller High School games and even a Cowboys scrimmage when their training camp was here in Austin. Her opinion of them are not very high, mainly due to the fact that they "didn't want a woman on THEIR field" so she was relegated to working the chains with them.

[TWChad]

He needs to be retired like my grandpa use to "retire" lame horses.

spek.. Thank you so much for a well needed laugh. :D

[Hot Rod]

My 7 year old saw the holding penalites and then I DVR-rewinded the play and saw it. Good call son.

Plus, he pointed out that Joey Haizle was in at QB before I noticed it. He's becoming a remarkable football fan.

[cs6000]

was "retired" some lingo from The Sopranos?

[bluedogok]

My 7 year old saw the holding penalites and then I DVR-rewinded the play and saw it. Good call son.

Plus, he pointed out that Joey Halzle was in at QB before I noticed it. He's becoming a remarkable football fan.
We heard from Trent on the sidelines on the radio broadcast that they were doing baseline concussion tests on Bradford and Halzle was warming up while the defense was on the field, so we were not surprised when Bradford wasn't in on the next offensive series.

Why anyone listens to the TV broadcast is beyond me, I know that BBs isn't the best but he is a whole lot better than listening to the TV talking heads. I listen to the OU broadcast on Sirius and sync the DVR to the broadcast. We do that for pretty much every game of teams we like because the TV people are just ignorant and brutal to listen to.

[guzziguy]

It takes a long time to get to that level of pay, you work a bunch of $60 dollar youth games to get to that level. It takes years of working up the ladder both in game experience and politics. It is also on a contract basis so you pay all of your own taxes out of that. Bible used to be in the NFL and was not retained after a couple of seasons.

My wife was a football official here in the Austin district with Bible and Christal, she worked a bunch of youth, Jr. High and smaller High School games and even a Cowboys scrimmage when their training camp was here in Austin. Her opinion of them are not very high, mainly due to the fact that they "didn't want a woman on THEIR field" so she was relegated to working the chains with them.

Highlighted part says a lot doesn't it?

[Sooner02]

I tried it and can never get the radio and tv broadcast to be in synch. I know what's going to happen long before I see it.

[bluedogok]

Listening to the game on Sirius, it is always behind the DirecTV feed, so it is easier to sync since that is the case and I have a DVR.

Syncing requires some practice, the best way is to pause the DVR right at the end of a play and then un-pause the DVR as soon as the play is at the same spot on the radio. I do have to do some pauses/FF to finely adjust it. Once I get it close it is great.

The issue on Sunday Ticket is the Game Mix channel is ahead of the synced game on the big screen, I learn to skip that box on the second TV with Game Mix going.

[47straight]

Bluedog, that's way cool your wife is into the sport enough to be an official.

[bluedogok]

That was before I came along, she just really likes football. It was her idea to go ahead and get NFL Sunday Ticket and she has no problems with the two TV's setup in the living room. I have MLB Extra Innings and NHL Center Ice as well, most nights I have the Red Sox games on with the Rangers or Rockies games after the Boston game.

Most of our vacations have involved sports in some way, we went to three baseball games on our honeymoon (Indians-Royals in KC, Giants-Cards in StL and Cards-Cubs in Chicago). We went to the OU-KU game at Arrowhead and the Chiefs-Skins game the next day, if the Broncos had been playing in Denver the Sunday after the CU game we probably would have gone up there. Last year were baseball games at Boston and Denver, we also went to the Cowboys Thanksgiving game. This year was the Formula 1 race at Indy, next April we are going to do a Red Sox-Yankees pair, one in Boston and a couple of days later at Yankee Stadium.

I can't complain too much, even though she is a Tech alum :D

[ted_dawson]

I waited to re-watch the game tape from last night so I wouldn't shoot from the hip (*du-dum crash*). Say what you will about that touchdown call, but I can't, for the life of me, come up with any excuse as to why John Bible is blind enough that he can't see all the holding penalties that Texas Tech committed last night, especially in the first half. On their first three touchdown drives alone, I counted ten holds by their o-line, half of which were against whoever was blocking Granger. And the majority of them were on third and long situations where Harrel got off the pass just in time. But watch out if there is even a shadow of a doubt that OU was guilty of holding...*whistle* "Holding against OU!" This is the second game this year that Bible's calls and "non-calls" have been especially detrimental to OU (the other being that call about grabbing that CU players hair...there's no such rule against it)...and I, for one, can't help but wonder just why he is allowed to continuously ref OU games. It's pretty clear that, if it's OU's opponent, he doesn't know holding if it jumped up and kicked him in the balls.

Ok, rant over. I still feel like total **** for the way the guys played last night...but it's only a game. Get well Sam, Demarco and Adron.


After watching the replays tonight to confirm what I saw in the game, I gotta say that you are absolutly correct in your assessment. I was stunned at the level of the holds... heck, those were outright tackles.

[SoonerStormchaser]

And for the record, I am in no way advocating what this guy is:
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103793

[SoonerGM]

After watching the replays tonight to confirm what I saw in the game, I gotta say that you are absolutly correct in your assessment. I was stunned at the level of the holds... heck, those were outright tackles.

yes, that is absolutely the problem. it was not just the standard holding that happens on every play. and that is why i dont find explanations of "holding happens all the time", or "refs in general have not been calling holding this year", sufficient enough to explain what happend. i mean does anyone honestly feel that anyone wearing black and white in that game truly earned thier $1000?

and for the tech players, thats disgraceful cheating. the rule is no holding. if you break a rule, that = cheating. when you know what you are doing but keep doing it anyway, that = disgraceful.

[SoonerMom2]

yes, that is absolutely the problem. it was not just the standard holding that happens on every play. and that is why i dont find explanations of "holding happens all the time", or "refs in general have not been calling holding this year", sufficient enough to explain what happend. i mean does anyone honestly feel that anyone wearing black and white in that game truly earned thier $1000?

and for the tech players, thats disgraceful cheating. the rule is no holding. if you break a rule, that = cheating. when you know what you are doing but keep doing it anyway, that = disgraceful.

Thank you for those comments! I cannot believe some of what I have read on here against the defense. You cannot put pressure on the quarterback when you are essentially being tackled and someone is grabbing your shirt to keep you from going anywhere. It is cheating.

But then I think Leach pulled his stunt on the officials last week on purpose and the idiots in the Big 12 sent an Austin crew to show him they are not biased against Tech. He spent $10,000 to get what he wanted -- Bible knowing that Bible always looks the other way on any team playing OU.

Baylor game had the same thing happen with our D-line being held all so they couldn't get to the quarterback. When Bible officiates, the other team knows they can hold at will. Anyone watching the Baylor game could tell that so what does Tech do, they take holding to a whole new level.

Big 12 officiating is disgraceful when they purposely make the wrong call or no calls. No one will ever convince me that Bible and his crew didn't do it on purpose. Believe the replay on the touchdown of less than 30 seconds proves it along with the network saying they only looked at one angle.

[cvsooner]

Thank you for those comments! I cannot believe some of what I have read on here against the defense. You cannot put pressure on the quarterback when you are essentially being tackled and someone is grabbing your shirt to keep you from going anywhere. It is cheating.

But then I think Leach pulled his stunt on the officials last week on purpose and the idiots in the Big 12 sent an Austin crew to show him they are not biased against Tech. He spent $10,000 to get what he wanted -- Bible knowing that Bible always looks the other way on any team playing OU.

Baylor game had the same thing happen with our D-line being held all so they couldn't get to the quarterback. When Bible officiates, the other team knows they can hold at will. Anyone watching the Baylor game could tell that so what does Tech do, they take holding to a whole new level.

Big 12 officiating is disgraceful when they purposely make the wrong call or no calls. No one will ever convince me that Bible and his crew didn't do it on purpose. Believe the replay on the touchdown of less than 30 seconds proves it along with the network saying they only looked at one angle.

I had the feeling on the first three Tech possessions when we were getting excellent pressure on Harrell that somebody on the Tech sideline--to prevent what happened to Harrell last year--you may recall he became a non-factor after he got blindsided--somebody told their linemen to just start holding, and keep holding until they call a penalty. Since it only got called once...and this is strictly my opinion, watching the game...it worked pretty well.

Lots of blame to go around on this one. Probably some decisions Stoops would like to make differently. Anybody else notice him stuttering to the sideline reporter on his way to the locker room at halftime? He seemed genuinely rattled. Very uncharacteristic.

Tough game, one I hated to see us lose...but not all that surprised, unfortunately. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop and it happened here. I will say, if English and Bradford could have played, totally different ballgame. It was nearly a different game as it was. I will go to my grave knowing Manuel Johnson scored a touchdown. Except, of course, that's not a touchdown in Lubbock, Texas, not in a crimson and cream uniform, or if your name isn't Michael Crabtree.

[SoonerKnight]

The officials played a small part in yesterdays game. The team lost confidence when Sam went down. The defense was tired and the offense well they got better in the second half but it was a back up playing after all.

[Curly Bill]

It trips me out that some on here think offensive linemen holding was some odd phenomena that just reared it's ugly head in OUr TT game. If you have watched college football at all this year you would realize that it goes largely uncalled in every game played. We can debate the lunacy of allowing that to happen when there are rules on the books against it, but trust me the fact that it wasn't called in OUr game was not a conspiracy, incompetence perhaps?

I didn't go back and read the entire thread again so if you have already pointed out any part of what I just said, I didn't mean to steal your thunder.

[47straight]

News flash (news to me):

It's JON Bible.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Was Bible part of the non-end zone INT years ago in the UT endzone on the tied game?

Oh and Mr. Man-Tan needs to go. His tan goggle line is hilarious.

[fadada1]

i think the question to ask is, "did BBS see the holding calls from his seat?"

if so, the big12 is in need of some SERIOUS overhauling of its officiating.

[SoonerStormchaser]

^^^Now that's a good litmus test!^^^ Cause if he saw the 4th down and "touchdown" fiasco's in Lubbock two years ago, then the refs really got it wrong!

[aurorasooner]

if so, the big12 is in need of some SERIOUS overhauling of its officiating. It doesn't matter if BBsr can see them or not. The Big 12 needs to break up the Texas ""good ol' boy official's groups and get some young professional guys out there who are more interested in protecting the integrity of the game without any preconceived biased opinions on what's best for the conference if team A or B wins. JMHO, but, as a start I think the NCAA should take replay official's assignments away from the individual conference offices and assign replay officials who have absolutely no ties or associations with the 7 officials on the field. Then pay the replay officials well and make them accountable to the press to confirm their calls if they are questioned. The only ways I can see to make this fiasco better is to pay the officials better, make them accountable to the press and the fans, and imo the most important is to disband these crews that have been together forever.

[SoonerGM]

It trips me out that some on here think offensive linemen holding was some odd phenomena that just reared it's ugly head in OUr TT game. If you have watched college football at all this year you would realize that it goes largely uncalled in every game played. We can debate the lunacy of allowing that to happen when there are rules on the books against it, but trust me the fact that it wasn't called in OUr game was not a conspiracy, incompetence perhaps?

I didn't go back and read the entire thread again so if you have already pointed out any part of what I just said, I didn't mean to steal your thunder.

im going to take a minute to disect your post because i think it is funny. firstly, there is nothing factual about it. you are only using a lame generalization that is based off of your personal opinion to establish that the trend this season is to not call holding as much in "every" game as in previous seasons. well for one thing, to my knowledge there has not been any studies performed to show this to be true or false, and you have not produced one for us to view, so that idea goes right out the window. additionally, i am highly doubtful that you have watched every ncaa football game this season. thirdly, the statement can be debated easily by anyone else, myself in this instance, by saying that i have seen several games where the holding was called fairly. now we are debating with opinions, and opinions prove nothing.

now, on to actual facts:

from the 2007 NCAA rule book:

Holding
Illegal use of the hand or arm is unfair play, eliminates skill and does
not belong in the game. The object of the game is to advance the ball
by strategy, skill and speed without illegally holding your opponent. All
coaches and players should thoroughly understand the rules for proper
offensive and defensive use of the hands. Holding is a frequently called
penalty; it is important to emphasize the severity of the penalty.

wow. this statement suggests that it is not the objective for officials to call holding less this year than in the past. in fact, it stresses the importance of calling the penalty.

also there is plenty of video evidence that holding by TT was prevelant during the game, often times with an official looking directly at the violation.

now, I am not going to say that it was a conspiracy(although there is enough there to at least be curious about it. and that is fair.) or incompetence. i really dont care. what i care about is the fact that the job was not even close to being done properly. and we, the fans, calling for a change in the way things are done with officiating is totally valid.

[FaninAma]

Curly Bill, do you write for the Daily Oklahoman? There was an article that, essentially, restated your apologist drivel regarding the referees line for line.

You're not (straw)Berry Tramel, are you?

Most holding by the OL is subtle and subjective. Reaching out and grabbing the jersey or shoulder pads of the DL and pulling them down is not subjective. And there was a sh*t load of the later going on in the TT game that wasn't called.

Is there anything that OU can do to keep these Austin @$$holes from reffing their games?

BTW, who are the officials for the OU-osu game? If it's Bible and Christal it might be prudent to lay a wad of cash on the aggies in that game.

There's a reason that Bible was fired from the NFL and it's not because he was a good referee like the Big 12 seems to think he is.

[OUGuf]

Is this the same Jon Bible? looks like him but i'm not sure.
http://www.business.txstate.edu/users/jb18/

If so Im thinking they shouldnt have a ref for a texas teams game, that is a professor at a texas university.
Makes absolutely no sense.

[Curly Bill]

Curly Bill, do you write for the Daily Oklahoman? There was an article that, essentially, restated your apologist drivel regarding the referees line for line.


Apologist drivel? Because I pointed out that in the games I've watched this year that holding has gone largely uncalled? OK, if you say so. :rolleyes:

edit...I know that TT was holding and I know that Bible is not a good official. I'm just not going to buy into any of the conspiracy theories being floated on this board...but if it makes others feel better then they can concoct whatever they want to.

[Curly Bill]

BTW...part of the reason I won't be buying into the cospiracy theories is I think all officials at the college level by and large stink, so to think they are competent unless they are actually crooked is giving them too much credit. :D

[Curly Bill]

im going to take a minute to disect your post



Disect what? I just said that in the games that I've watched holding has gone largely uncalled. You want to disect the games I've watched, you know....not knowing which ones that was and all?

...but if you want to start out your post all big and high-fallutin like you're going to put someone in their place well go ahead I guess. :rolleyes:

[texas bandman]

I just think we need to get some evangelicals and give him a good thumpin'. :P

[Curly Bill]

I'm all for letting Bob worry about the officials. If he thinks they stink and says so, then I'll go along with that. If he thinks they cost OU the game and he says so, then I'll go along with that too. I already think they stink, I just think they stink regardless of who's playing and not just when we are.

[Johnny Utah]

TTU (like probably a lot of other teams) gambled 1st, that they wouldn't get called for the holds (which they by and large didn't), and 2nd, that if they did get called they could make up the 10 yards on one of their next plays. The gamble paid off.

[TexasLidig8r]

http://www.gearthblog.com/images/black_helicopter_shirt.jpg

If this thread was over on hornfans.. the public wailing and gnashing of teeth over here would be biblical in proportion!

[OklahomaRed]

I don't know about costing us the game, but there were a couple of times when our deffensive ends were coming around their fat arse tackles clean and you could clearly see them reach out and drag them to the ground. I'm not talking about keeping your hands in tight and getting them up under the shoulder pads type holding. I'm talking about reaching out and grabbing the deffensive lineman and dragging them to the ground type holding. If I can see that on the TV, why the heck can't Mr. Bible see it right in front of him? :confused: I am perfectly fine with him being on OU's do not call list. :D

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm all for letting Bob worry about the officials. If he thinks they stink and says so, then I'll go along with that. If he thinks they cost OU the game and he says so, then I'll go along with that too. I already think they stink, I just think they stink regardless of who's playing and not just when we are.


As a diehard Sooner fan having watched my team have two wins outright stolen from them over the last 3 seasons, forgive me, or anyone else around here for that matter, if our criminally inept officiating fuse burns a little shorter at yet another instance of a game being unfairly called/non called that resulted in another Sooner loss.

The season is too short and the stakes are too high to have this happen every ****ing year now days. My enjoyment of the college football experience is taking a severe beating due to these Pop Warner/crooked officials with no accountability rewriting the record books.

[Curly Bill]

As a diehard Sooner fan having watched my team have two wins outright stolen from them over the last 3 seasons, forgive me, or anyone else around here for that matter, if our criminally inept officiating fuse burns a little shorter at yet another instance of a game being unfairly called/non called that resulted in another Sooner loss.

The season is too short and the stakes are too high to have this happen every ****ing year now days. My enjoyment of the college football experience is taking a severe beating due to these Pop Warner/crooked officials with no accountability rewriting the record books.

On this we can largely agree. I know we have had games taken from us that should not have been, and I too am frustrated at inept officiating, not to mention the conferences not doing anything about it (or not much) when these knuckleheads screw up. I don't like that they don't call holding when it appears to be quite obvious...and like I said: I know we've been screwed out of a couple of wins the past few years, but we aren't the only ones that have suffered from inept officiating, and I don't see the big anti-OU conspiracy in the officiating ranks that some see. I just think they all by-and-large stink!

[Curly Bill]

TTU (like probably a lot of other teams) gambled 1st, that they wouldn't get called for the holds (which they by and large didn't), and 2nd, that if they did get called they could make up the 10 yards on one of their next plays. The gamble paid off.

Exactly, offensive lineman are coached to hold and get away with it. When it goes uncalled, which is all to often these days, they are encouraged to hold more and more blatantly. Then we end up seeing what some of you have talked about, defensive players being more or less tackled when they rush. It hacks me off to see it, but what some of us don't realize is that it isn't just the Sooners defenders that are seeing this, it is pretty much throughout college football, and to some extent the NFL as well.

[SoonerStormchaser]

BTW, just for the thread record: I didn't start this thread to blame the refs for the loss. We did (and didn't do) plenty to lose it ourselves. But for me to sit back and say nothing when someone is incompetently not doing his job, well I just can't do that.

[SoonerMom2]

BTW, just for the thread record: I didn't start this thread to blame the refs for the loss. We did (and didn't do) plenty to lose it ourselves. But for me to sit back and say nothing when someone is incompetently not doing his job, well I just can't do that.

Exactly! Some people cannot get it through their heads that what the Bible crew did was beyond missing a call here and there. As far as I am concerned they cheated to help Tech. I don't know what else to call it.

Not saying we would have won if it has been officiated fairly but I would feel a lot better about the loss knowing that calls were fair. The touchdown was a touchdown, our lineman were taken to the ground, jerseys held, etc. On a level playing field who knows if we might have pulled it out but when the officiating is stacked against you, you have a harder mountain to climb.

I am one of those that thinks that Bible is biased against OU and A&M. It is blantantly obvious at the way he calls both of our games when opposing other schools.

Could you hear Texas or Tech if a Norman crew was out there to officiate their games?

[cvsooner]

Yeah, the officiating was lousy. All the more reason to play better. You just cannot make critical mistakes. Some of the calls were right: Duke did clobber that guy out of bounds, Baker did grab that guy by the face mask, and so on. There were a lot of calls they missed too...like an (ahem) block in the back on the interception return for a touchdown.

The part we can't seem to get across to the league...or college football, in general...is that the officiating is mostly terrible and we want and deserve better. Such lousy officiating mars what's left of the sport.

Unfortunately, apparently there just aren't better officials, or God forbid, this is as good as it's going to get.

For the life of me, though, I still can't believe Colorado beat these guys in Lubbock and they lost by 30 points in Columbia. We just could not seem to match the intensity level they had, for much of the game. The holding still bothers me...a lot. Seemed to me a fair number of times receivers were covered and the rush couldn't get to him...and then receivers would get open. Just time how long he gets to sit in the pocket or start to scramble. Probably should have clobbered him after he threw the ball once or twice. We were gonna get a penalty anyway.

[bluedogok]

im going to take a minute to disect your post because i think it is funny. firstly, there is nothing factual about it. you are only using a lame generalization that is based off of your personal opinion to establish that the trend this season is to not call holding as much in "every" game as in previous seasons. well for one thing, to my knowledge there has not been any studies performed to show this to be true or false, and you have not produced one for us to view, so that idea goes right out the window. additionally, i am highly doubtful that you have watched every ncaa football game this season. thirdly, the statement can be debated easily by anyone else, myself in this instance, by saying that i have seen several games where the holding was called fairly. now we are debating with opinions, and opinions prove nothing.

now, on to actual facts:

from the 2007 NCAA rule book:


wow. this statement suggests that it is not the objective for officials to call holding less this year than in the past. in fact, it stresses the importance of calling the penalty.

also there is plenty of video evidence that holding by TT was prevelant during the game, often times with an official looking directly at the violation.

now, I am not going to say that it was a conspiracy(although there is enough there to at least be curious about it. and that is fair.) or incompetence. i really dont care. what i care about is the fact that the job was not even close to being done properly. and we, the fans, calling for a change in the way things are done with officiating is totally valid.
I watch a bunch of games every weekend, both NCAA and NFL and there seems to be a considerable effort in all games to not call holding unless it directly impacts the play and is out in the pen, which is just up to an officials judgment like the majority of calls. I remember watching games a few years ago which became as brutal as watching basketball officials control a game because it seemed like there was a holding call every other play. I don't care if the do or don't call it, as long as it is called somewhat evenly which in most games it seems to be. They just don't call it much anymore.

There are many rules which are not called, 90% of the dribbling in basketball now is what would have been called "palming the ball" 20-30 years ago. The interpretation of holding rules have been liberalized over the years to create more offense.

[47straight]

http://www.gearthblog.com/images/black_helicopter_shirt.jpg

If this thread was over on hornfans.. the public wailing and gnashing of teeth over here would be biblical in proportion!



Everyone calling the objections to Jon Dana Bible "conspiracy theories" is wrong.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's not some complicated thing. It's the grandson of a legendary Texas coach living in suburban Austin screwing over OU for 23+ years.

It's just a biased son-of-a-bitch who doesn't need to coach in the league anymore. It's pretty simple.

[OKC Sooner]

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice entirely, because sometimes that IS the explanation.

[SoonerMom2]

Everyone calling the objections to Jon Dana Bible "conspiracy theories" is wrong.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's not some complicated thing. It's the grandson of a legendary Texas coach living in suburban Austin screwing over OU for 23+ years.

It's just a biased son-of-a-bitch who doesn't need to coach in the league anymore. It's pretty simple.

Thank you! We lived in TX and know about this jerk. He did the same thing to A&M when we were there. I said all along it was not incompetence but intentional. Incompetence calls dumb calls both ways.

[TexasLidig8r]

I am one of those that thinks that Bible is biased against OU and A&M. It is blantantly obvious at the way he calls both of our games when opposing other schools.



DX Bible also coached at aggy. If the theory is that the current edition of Bible is biased against aggy and OU because his grandfather was the coach of Texas and aggy, the theory simply does not hold water since, shouldn't he not be biased against aggy?

There are missed calls on both teams.. it is the nature of the game unfortunately.

OU lost the game because (1). your quarterback got hurt and the second team QB did not have significant playing time in your other games, and (2). the offensive play calling was felony horrible.

Tech's run defense is wretched. Why OU didn't use its stable of very good running backs and quality offensive line to just pound Tech is beyond me. Attack them on the ground, bash them... keep pushing them back, control the clock, keep the Tech air show on the bench.

[badger]

http://www.gearthblog.com/images/black_helicopter_shirt.jpg

If this thread was over on hornfans.. the public wailing and gnashing of teeth over here would be biblical in proportion!
zzzz... you up for another bet, whorn lid?

since we both have our awesome avatars from the october game, it just occured to me that either of us will be big 12 south champs and go to the big 12 champeeeenship game.

as such, I can easily change the LOST: GOLD HAT avatar to LOST: GLASS BOWL avatar (tee hee). and... you could probably embarrass my poor badger icon, too.

So, how bout it? Wanna avatar bet for who goes to the championship game? All you have to do is beat your aggie and hope we lose to our aggie. All we have to do is beat our aggie and laugh as you once again lose to your aggie (whooooop!).

I made a similar bet with Hskrgrl and Herr last year before your Lone Star Showdown thingy for who would be Big 12 champions. But as there are no resident KU or Mizz fans yet and we can rightfully assume that the Big 12 North champion will need to get beyond lucky to beat either of us, whaddaya say?

[soonerboy_odanorth]

OU lost the game because (1). your quarterback got hurt and the second team QB did not have significant playing time in your other games, and (2). the offensive play calling was felony horrible.

Tech's run defense is wretched. Why OU didn't use its stable of very good running backs and quality offensive line to just pound Tech is beyond me. Attack them on the ground, bash them... keep pushing them back, control the clock, keep the Tech air show on the bench.

Dangit.

When you're right, you're right.

No **** off, dip-****! ;)

[FaninAma]

DX Bible also coached at aggy. If the theory is that the current edition of Bible is biased against aggy and OU because his grandfather was the coach of Texas and aggy, the theory simply does not hold water since, shouldn't he not be biased against aggy?

There are missed calls on both teams.. it is the nature of the game unfortunately.

OU lost the game because (1). your quarterback got hurt and the second team QB did not have significant playing time in your other games, and (2). the offensive play calling was felony horrible.

Tech's run defense is wretched. Why OU didn't use its stable of very good running backs and quality offensive line to just pound Tech is beyond me. Attack them on the ground, bash them... keep pushing them back, control the clock, keep the Tech air show on the bench.

You're reaching Lid. 1st of all, if there were an official that was related to Bud Wilikinson, lived in Norman and happened to be a referee in a lot of the games Texas lost I guarantee you that not ony would the whorn faithful be going beserk but there would be a ton of pressure on the Big 12 office from the UT administration to get this situation changed.

You know damn well that UT would never, ever tolerate the above situation. So once again you are displaying the hypocritical behavior that typlifies most horn fans.

I am also suprised that you, as an a attorney and purveyor of truth and justice , will not admit how stupid it is for the league to allow the appearance of bias to continue.:rolleyes:

Add all of that to the fact that the guy is just a horrible official(fired from the NFL) and it's easy to see why he still has a jopb in the Big 12......he has a lot of support from down in Austin.

[TexasLidig8r]

You're reaching Lid. 1st of all, if there were an official that was related to Bud Wilikinson, lived in Norman and happened to be a referee in a lot of the games Texas lost I guarantee you that not ony would the whorn faithful be going beserk but there would be a ton of pressure on the Big 12 office from the UT administration to get this situation changed.

You know damn well that UT would never, ever tolerate the above situation. So once again you are displaying the hypocritical behavior that typlifies most horn fans.

I am also suprised that you, as an a attorney and purveyor of truth and justice , will not admit how stupid it is for the league to allow the appearance of bias to continue.:rolleyes:

Add all of that to the fact that the guy is just a horrible official(fired from the NFL) and it's easy to see why he still has a jopb in the Big 12......he has a lot of support from down in Austin.

First, the heat would not come from the UT administration. For the most part, they don't get involved in the manner in which Boren does. That is what athletic directors are for.

Second, I agree that there should never be any appearance of impropriety with any official and any possible conflict of interest should be avoided at all costs.

Having said all that, questions to consider.... Is Bible a UT alum.. or did he merely have a grandparent (or is it, grand uncle), who coached at both UT and aggy? Does he have any ties, financial or otherwise with UT?

If, the bellyaching is based upon the fact that Bible lives in or near Austin and has a relative in the past who coached at UT, you have a tough argument proving bias.

The only surprising thing about all this is that Boren hasn't come out whining about the officials or writing another letter to the Big XII or NCAA.

[OklahomaRed]

I would assume "Athletic Director" would fall under UT administration?

Second, the point by FaninAma was not that the theoritical official was a OU alum, but simply that he was the grandson of an ex-OU coach, and that he lived in, or around Norman, that he officiated a lot of UT games, and that he had made some calls in said games that did not go UT's direction.

Again the question, "Would UT fans and school administration be up in arms or not?"

Bible should not be allowed to ref OU games. Plain and simple. You said it. Every effort should be made to prevent implications of any possible conflict. How hard would it be for the Big 12 to make that decision?

[aurorasooner]

Bible should not be allowed to ref OU games. Plain and simple. You said it. Every effort should be made to prevent implications of any possible conflict. How hard would it be for the Big 12 to make that decision? Neither Bible nor Christal should be anywhere near Owen Field come Saturday Afternoon if Texas beats aTm on Friday. There's no need for the Big 12 office to even give the hint of any Texas impropriety in the this game. If anything officials from the north division should be assigned the OU/OSU game and officials from the south division should be assigned the KU/MU game.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

He lists himself as Dr. Bible. I wouldn't call him Dr. unless he has a Ph.D., but are JD's considered Dr.s?

[SoonerMom2]

Neither Bible nor Christal should be anywhere near Owen Field come Saturday Afternoon if Texas beats aTm on Friday. There's no need for the Big 12 office to even give the hint of any Texas impropriety in the this game. If anything officials from the north division should be assigned the OU/OSU game and officials from the south division should be assigned the KU/MU game.

Exactly! I would actually prefer officiating from another conference. Are the Stillwater bozos that called the National Champsionship game Ohio State won still around? I can see the Big 12 sending us them or one of the two Austin crews. They could add injury to insult and send us the insurance agent of Dykes from Lubbock.

Bible is a UT homer and has been for years. He doesn't like A&M and I don't know why but I lived around A&M people that complained about having Bible's crew was like a 12th man for Texas when we lived in Texas so my fill of Bible came before we even moved to Norman. Wouldn't expect a Texas homor to see the facts before his eyes.

[soonerhubs]

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,1514,00.html

I found this read interesting, but I'm still struggling to empathize with these people we see wearing stripes.
Thoughts? :pop:

[aurorasooner]

While I empathize with Bible and Chrystal (sp-?) and I guess in everyday life they're probably good people, there's no way that either should be involved in calling an OU/Texas game or any OU game where a Sooner loss would would be directly beneficial to Texas (such as the OU/osu game this weekend. There's enough officials in the Big 12 conference (at minimum 42 --6 games x 7 refs/game), that neither one should have to be put in a position to even call a game directly involving Texas ( if I was a Big 12 official I would insist that I wasn't asked to call an OU game unless it was an emergency, or for that matter a Texas game. I wouldn't have a problem with any other teams in the Big 12). I also believe there's really no need to have all 7 officials from 1 crew doing every game together. Supposedly these guys are professionals and should be able to dot the i's and cross the t's of officiating with a Friday night and Saturday morning meeting before the games. In any event, even if there's not any officiating impropriety, there shouldn't even be the appearance of officiating impropriety, and with the these 2 guys documented Texas history, there appears to be, even if there isn't.

[Salt City Sooner]

Exactly! I would actually prefer officiating from another conference. Are the Stillwater bozos that called the National Champsionship game Ohio State won still around? I can see the Big 12 sending us them or one of the two Austin crews. They could add injury to insult and send us the insurance agent of Dykes from Lubbock.

Bible is a UT homer and has been for years. He doesn't like A&M and I don't know why but I lived around A&M people that complained about having Bible's crew was like a 12th man for Texas when we lived in Texas so my fill of Bible came before we even moved to Norman. Wouldn't expect a Texas homor to see the facts before his eyes.
That was Christal & co.

[badger]

Lid, you never responded to my bet offer... or is your non-response your response :D

[FaninAma]

Jon Bible is an alum of UT.

[FaninAma]

http://www.business.txstate.edu/users/jb18/

[Frozen Sooner]

He lists himself as Dr. Bible. I wouldn't call him Dr. unless he has a Ph.D., but are JD's considered Dr.s?

Yes. It stands for Juris Doctor. However, you'd have to be an *** to insist on the Dr. prefix. A more equivalent degree to a PhD would be a JSD.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yes. It stands for Juris Doctor. However, you'd have to be an *** to insist on the Dr. prefix. A more equivalent degree to a PhD would be a JSD.

Thanks, While I knew JD stood for Juris Doctor, I alwAys considered that more of a Master's type of degree. I wasn't sure if the Honorific used was "Dr." rather than "Esquire" or something else.