How Many Coaches Keep Convicted Felons on Team?

[stoopified]

that you can recall?Personally I can't think of ANY?Barry booted them when charged,Dr,Tom kept it tied up in court until after the season,McCartney(at CU) booted them.Miami booted them if they were in jail or prison and unable to practice but Gundy? WTF?

[StoopTroup]

As long as Stillwater is the testing ground for rehabilation....what does it really matter?

[MojoRisen]

I don't know much about this case - at all so don't beat me up. If I were 17 at an after hours party and a hot chick full bodied said she was 16 and wanted to hook up with a football player - I think that I would likely get it on with her.

Sorry but the parents of this girl and the girl herself have to be somewhat responsible in this matter- and the fact that Chris was 17 when this happend he should not have been charged as an adult in this case -

This case would not have seen the light of day with the right lawyers.

He pleads guilty to a Felony and gets probation but the Prosecution did not cut a deal- I call Bull shaite on this entire case.

and I am a MAN -

[Civicus_Sooner]

I don't know much about this case - at all so don't beat me up. If I were 17 at an after hours party and a hot chick full bodied said she was 16 and wanted to hook up with a football player - I think that I would likely get it on with her.

Sorry but the parents of this girl and the girl herself have to be somewhat responsible in this matter- and the fact that Chris was 17 when this happend he should not have been charged as an adult in this case -

This case would not have seen the light of day with the right lawyers.

He pleads guilty to a Felony and gets probation by the Prosecution did not cut a deal- I call Bull shaite on this entire case.

and I am a MAN -I disagree on many levels. She snuck out of her house and she's 12 man. TWELVE

[MojoRisen]

What does she look like dude- I hear you on many levels but what the hell the kid was 17 and she said she was 16 - give me a break.

This isn't a murder trial - that is normal behavior for a 17 year year old and based on what I did read today - I wouldve defended him....

If anything - this should have stayed in Juvie courts - this kid doesn't deserve this wrap - and if he was facing 3-10 years in prison - he took a deal for probation to save from a trail that could really end his life as he knows it.

Just my opinion and I would assume some of the Juriors if they were to actually go to trial- and the other guys charged in this - went to trial with a hung jury- what evidence am I missing that that jury did not??

[yukonsooner]

You've got to be kidding? It's the 12 year-olds fault? Agreed, the parents should have had better control of her and she wouldn't have been there, but to blame a 12 year-old child. He was 17 a year later he is considered an adult. If he didn't know right from wrong at 17 do you think being a year older would have made a difference. Also if you are going to blame her parents, you have to put blame on his also. If she were your 12 year old daughter, would you be feeling the same way?

[auto]

Day Glo Orange uni's, both work for Aggy Lite and Payne County.

[Curly Bill]

You've got to be kidding? It's the 12 year-olds fault?

Did I miss the part where someone said in this thread it was the 12 year olds fault...because I don't remember seing it? Someone said she should bare some responsibility, but I don't remember the: it's her fault part.

[sooneron]

I'm pretty sure McCartney was lenient towards players with transgressions. I seem to remember their team having a nice rap sheet back around 89-91. Maybe they weren't felons, but he kept some pretty bad eggs around those teams.

[MojoRisen]

You've got to be kidding? It's the 12 year-olds fault? Agreed, the parents should have had better control of her and she wouldn't have been there, but to blame a 12 year-old child. He was 17 a year later he is considered an adult. If he didn't know right from wrong at 17 do you think being a year older would have made a difference. Also if you are going to blame her parents, you have to put blame on his also. If she were your 12 year old daughter, would you be feeling the same way?


Dude- I don't want a wrap on this by defending Mr. Collins- but keep things in perspective. There are 12 year olds that look 12 and then there are 12 year olds that look 18... if I were 17 - and not a legal adult... I would have made out with the girl and probably took it as far as she wanted to go.

No bull- keep it in perspective - I don't know much about this case but the fact that it seems consential - and she lied about her age most likely - makes me want to puke that he was tried as an adult in this...

Did she claim rape????? I guess if she had regrets she might...

[stoopified]

I'm pretty sure McCartney was lenient towards players with transgressions. I seem to remember their team having a nice rap sheet back around 89-91. Maybe they weren't felons, but he kept some pretty bad eggs around those teams.
Trnsgressions?What part of felony conviction for AGGRAVATED Sexdual Assault falls under transgressions?Especially when that involves gangrape of a 12 yearold girl?IYeah some coaches are lenient with players accused of felonies(Dr.Tom comes to mind) but CONVICTED FELONS?

[sooneron]

Trnsgressions?What part of felony conviction for AGGRAVATED Sexdual Assault falls under transgressions?Especially when that involves gangrape of a 12 yearold girl?IYeah some coaches are lenient with players accused of felonies(Dr.Tom comes to mind) but CONVICTED FELONS?
At what point did I equate what Collins did to being just a transgression> Dude, you need to lighten the **** up.
All I was saying is that St. Bill kept some pretty shady dudes on his squad.

And you may want to look up transgression as the definition is "a violation of the law".

[sooneron]

One more example for those who aren't catching on. Under Bill McCartney's guidance, the Colorado Buffaloes won a share of the 1990 national title. Between 1986-89, more than two dozen Buffalo players were arrested on charges ranging from trespassing to sexual assault. McCartney's daughter gave birth to a child fathered by Colorado's quarterback, Sal Aunese, who died of cancer that year. That same daughter is now planning to marry another Buffalo player. Just a nice big family.

http://kendrick.colgate.edu/maroon/archivesf95/sept1595/mikus.html

[MojoRisen]

it's Too bad - once it got to a gang situation is where that stuff needed to stop.

however - kissing on her neck in her testimony doesn't sound like a gang rape too me...

I still don't think Collins was an adult when it happend and shouldnt have been facing all that time- in fact if he was so guilty of gang rape as people would put it- why on earth is he not serving serious time for this.

PROBATION????? I smell some trumped up charges and story adjustments to save face and reputation.

I wonder if that 12 year old has some physc problems of her own for getting into that situation wantfully and willingly...

[adoniijahsooner]

I coached my daughters coach pitch team a couple of years ago, and there was a girl on there who was 9 at the time, I see her three years later when I am at the movies with my wife and the girl looks like a grown *** women at the age of 12; which is weird because my daughter still looks like a little girl, so for a 17 year to get confused and think this girl was older is not out of the question. At 17 I doubt he felt the need to check ids and verify her age since he was underage as well. Ive gotten to the point where I dont put myself into postions to be accused of anything; seems to to be the safest way to operate since whether something is true or not your going to get convicted for it.I dont blame the girl nor do I blame the collins, but the system needs to allw gray areas especially if there is lying involved.

[usmc-sooner]

the girl was 12 and looked 12. Everyone who has seen her picture has said so. He got a 12 year old drunk, had sex with after she passed out, then he let his friends have sex with her.
I don't see how doesn't get some sort of jail time.

[usmc-sooner]

it's Too bad - once it got to a gang situation is where that stuff needed to stop.

however - kissing on her neck in her testimony doesn't sound like a gang rape too me...

I still don't think Collins was an adult when it happend and shouldnt have been facing all that time- in fact if he was so guilty of gang rape as people would put it- why on earth is he not serving serious time for this.

PROBATION????? I smell some trumped up charges and story adjustments to save face and reputation.

I wonder if that 12 year old has some physc problems of her own for getting into that situation wantfully and willingly...

3 or 4 guys some over 18 had sex with her while she was passed out. Her rape kit showed bruising, she asked them to stop they didn't, they dumped her over a block from her house.
what they did would have been wrong if she was 21.

[budbarrybob]

First off he should be let go from the TEAM!!! Gundy looks like an A$$hat for not doing this immediately...
Second, he was 17 not 14. Dunno was he 17 and 11 months? sex with ANY underage person (18) is unlawful.
Third, if he only gets probation it is probably fitting unless the rape was NOT consentual.
Fourth, this boy had friends/older persons in his life that would have pointed out the fact that it is UNLAWFUL to have sex with a minor - period. All of us men-dudes at that age were well aware of the consequences of our actions and probably woulda done them anyway. The climate today dictates that individuals (boys) in this case be even more vigilant for the possiblity that they might be prosecuted for what comes naturally.

[NYC Poke]

There was a quote in the print edition of yesterday's NYT (I looked for the quote in the archives, but couldn't find it) that was something to the effect of "This sends a strong message that if you're a sleazebag who won't be accepted to play anywhere else, Oklahoma State is the place for you." I cringed.

I wish the university were going to address this situation, but it doesn't look like they're going to. They're announced that he won't play the rest of the season and they're going to meet with Collins and determine his fate at some unspecified time in the future. That is Institionspeak for: "We're going to keep him in the background and hope that everyone forgets about it by next season."

Message to the university: People won't forget about this.

[85sooners]

:(

[Desert Sapper]

Any form of public opinion crucifixion is wrong, in my opinion. It may have been that he got confused and thought she looked 16 (as some have said). It may have been that he wanted to let his friends gang bang a little girl (as others have said). There's a huge variation between those two versions. We can't know unless we were there, and I sure as hell wasn't. I sure hope, for Collins' sake, that it is the former and not the latter. Sin may be sin, but if it's the latter, there will be hell to pay. Literally.

The fact that Collins was being prosecuted for this crime should have been enough to kick him off the team. It would have been for just about any other coach. Not sure I am confident in Gumby's control of his program. It sounded like he didn't even know Collins was gone. Gee.

[Jeopardude]

the girl was 12 and looked 12. Everyone who has seen her picture has said so. He got a 12 year old drunk, had sex with after she passed out, then he let his friends have sex with her.
I don't see how doesn't get some sort of jail time.

This is worth repeating.

[Scott D]

Any form of public opinion crucifixion is wrong, in my opinion. It may have been that he got confused and thought she looked 16 (as some have said). It may have been that he wanted to let his friends gang bang a little girl (as others have said). There's a huge variation between those two versions. We can't know unless we were there, and I sure as hell wasn't. I sure hope, for Collins' sake, that it is the former and not the latter. Sin may be sin, but if it's the latter, there will be hell to pay. Literally.

The fact that Collins was being prosecuted for this crime should have been enough to kick him off the team. It would have been for just about any other coach. Not sure I am confident in Gumby's control of his program. It sounded like he didn't even know Collins was gone. Gee.

Gundy learned he was gone from a mother, a mother of children, who happens to feed her quarterback son chicken by the bus after the game. ;)

[MojoRisen]

This is worth repeating.


If this is true why would the prosecution give him probation. He should have got 5 years -

[usmc-sooner]

If this is true why would the prosecution give him probation. He should have got 5 years -

the judge does not have to accept the recommendation of probation as I understand it.

[TexasLidig8r]

If this is true why would the prosecution give him probation. He should have got 5 years -

The prosecution did NOT give him probation.

The jury, after hearing evidence that none of us have heard, recommended a 5 year jail term probated for 5 years.

On December 10, the judge sentences him. The judge does not have to accept the jury's recommendation.

Since next year is an election year.. if this judge is up for re-election, this case will be one his opponent uses to bludgeon him if he accepts the jury's recommendation... the old.. "this judge is soft on sex crimes" mantra.

[sooneron]

Any form of public opinion crucifixion is wrong, in my opinion. It may have been that he got confused and thought she looked 16 (as some have said). It may have been that he wanted to let his friends gang bang a little girl (as others have said). There's a huge variation between those two versions.
Being a father of a little girl, I disagree. Doing the deed is doing the deed. If I find a bag of money on the street and there is a bank's name on the bottom where I can't see it, my taking that money is wrong. Even if I claim that I never saw the bank's name on the other side.

Of course, if it were my daughter, that dood would be walking around sackless.

[MojoRisen]

I keep thinking of that Charles Bronson flick- not sure if you guys remember.

Something still tells me there is something more too this story- one hung jury and another that recommends probation.

[Desert Sapper]

Being a father of a little girl, I disagree. Doing the deed is doing the deed. If I find a bag of money on the street and there is a bank's name on the bottom where I can't see it, my taking that money is wrong. Even if I claim that I never saw the bank's name on the other side.

Of course, if it were my daughter, that dood would be walking around sackless.

Being a father of three little girls, I fully concur. I've got a big *** jagged knife and I know how to use it.

Part of being a parent is teaching your children discretion. They may not be old enough to have all the concepts down, but they're learning. The biggest piece is this: don't ever put yourself into a situation you can't escape. Too many girls learn this the hard way. Most males, from about the age of 10 in my estimate (maybe sooner), have one thing constantly on their mind. If you can train your daughter to always stay cognizant of that, she'll be better for it.

My point was that there is a huge difference (in terms of motive and intent) between the two versions posted in this thread. That tells me that nobody really knows what happened except for those involved, and even that seems questionable. He'll answer for what he did, in this life or the next.

[MojoRisen]

I would like to make one more point, he pleaded guilty to this - but if a Jury was already sat - and did not go too trail - the prosecution struck a deal with the defense team on this - you better believe he got probation as the deal or he will go to trial on this.

Anytime you are facing serious time like that and are offered probation any lawyer in America with a conscious would recommend to that kid to take the probation and not risk even 1% of going to jail for 10 years. Innocence or not trails also cost a boat load of money and who knows maybe they figured not spend 40K on this and risk the 1% chance to loose a trial based on the simple fact that this girl was so young and how people would precieve it.

They did not strike a deal with the Jury- if anybody is po'ed about the probation they should ask the Prosecution why they were willing to take a plead bargin.

[Sevaer]

There is nothing fishy about this case. Collins plead guilty to sexual assualt.

If anyone is defending this athlete, because the girl might look older, then I don't want my kids being around you. We have a sick world that is becoming more accepting of some very evil things.

The bottom line is that Collins should pay for his crime when taking advantage of a twelve year old girl. Whether the judge gives him probation or not, he should lose his scholarship to play football at a major university.

[NYC Poke]

The prosecution did NOT give him probation.

The jury, after hearing evidence that none of us have heard, recommended a 5 year jail term probated for 5 years.

On December 10, the judge sentences him. The judge does not have to accept the jury's recommendation.

Since next year is an election year.. if this judge is up for re-election, this case will be one his opponent uses to bludgeon him if he accepts the jury's recommendation... the old.. "this judge is soft on sex crimes" mantra.

I don't see that as an implausible scenario. But the prosecution and the girl's family say they're satisfied with the jury recommendation. I suspect he just wants to wash his hands of the matter and move on.

[MojoRisen]

I agree - but think about it. How many people have 40-50K to defend themselves when people acuse you of crimes you may be innocent of-

That is a lot of Jail time and $$$$$ they may not have had - to go to trial...

To me if he was really guilty of the acused - he would not have been able to get a deal on this from the Prosecution.

They must have felt he was not guilty of Felony to give him probation but clearly would take the conviction as a % of their win record.... Sorry but that is how the system works.

[ultimatesooner1]

collins knew this girl for at least a month before the incident occured, he is the one who went and picked her up & took her to the hotel and gave her the alcohol

[Civicus_Sooner]

Any form of public opinion crucifixion is wrong, in my opinion. It may have been that he got confused and thought she looked 16 (as some have said). It may have been that he wanted to let his friends gang bang a little girl (as others have said). There's a huge variation between those two versions. We can't know unless we were there, and I sure as hell wasn't. I sure hope, for Collins' sake, that it is the former and not the latter. Sin may be sin, but if it's the latter, there will be hell to pay. Literally.

The fact that Collins was being prosecuted for this crime should have been enough to kick him off the team. It would have been for just about any other coach. Not sure I am confident in Gumby's control of his program. It sounded like he didn't even know Collins was gone. Gee.

You can't have sex with an unconscious ADULT, much less a 12 year old.

The only reason he seems to be getting such a light sentence is because he was a minor.

[MojoRisen]

BS - if he can be tried as an adult and what you guys say is true - as Sapper said we clearly do not know the facts.

No way do they give him probation- plead bargin - no way first offense or not.

Did her parents let them date???

[usmc-sooner]

BS - if he can be tried as an adult and what you guys say is true - as Sapper said we clearly do not know the facts.

No way do they give him probation- plead bargin - no way first offense or not.

Did her parents let them date???

facts I know,

1)he was 17 year HS football star and he slept with a 12 year old.

2)he gave her alcohol, he had sex with her, his friends had sex with her. Total scum.

3) He pled guilty to that

I was 17 years old at one time I never tried having sex with a 12 year old.

That's a Jr hooking up with 6th grader. You know a Texas HS football star it wasn't like he needed to be doing this sort of thing to get some. He's got bad wiring.

[stoopified]

facts I know,

1)he was 17 year HS football star and he slept with a 12 year old.

2)he gave her alcohol, he had sex with her, his friends had sex with her. Total scum.

3) He pled guilty to that

I was 17 years old at one time I never tried having sex with a 12 year old.

That's a Jr hooking up with 6th grader. You know a Texas HS football star it wasn't like he needed to be doing this sort of thing to get some. He's got bad wiring.
Exactly.This stuff makes me a lttle to angry to be rational.A 17 yearold and three friends take a 12 yr old to a motel and get her drunk and and have sex with her?Let them(including Collins) go to big boy prison and get treated like a 12yr old girl.The only difference is their new boyfriends won't get them drunk ,they'll just punk them.

[yukonsooner]

To me if he was really guilty of the acused - he would not have been able to get a deal on this from the Prosecution.

They must have felt he was not guilty of Felony to give him probation but clearly would take the conviction as a % of their win record.... Sorry but that is how the system works.



Right, I'm not guilty of sexually assaulting a 12-year old, but hey, I'll go ahead and plead guilty. If I plead guilty the worst thing that they'll do is give me probation and I'll have to register as a sex offender. Do you really believe that? He knew what he did, his attornys knew what he did and he threw himself on the mercy of the court. He waited till the last minute hoping he could get out of it, when reality set in he was facing jail time he plead. I'm sure he'll be like Vick real soon and find God.

[MojoRisen]

No deals are struck W/O prosecution- The jury does not deal with the defendants.

They did not go to Trial- the only other trial was HUNG

Sorry holmes

[yukonsooner]

Sorry holms - I have 25+ years in law enforcement. It isn't unusual for the defendant to plead guilty at the last minute after the jury is set. The defense team may have felt they had a good chance with the jury if Collins were to plead in getting a reduced sentence. We can debate this forever and not agree, however we can agree we are glad Collins didnt play for OU, and gundy is an idiot.

[Leroy Lizard]

Sorry but the parents of this girl and the girl herself have to be somewhat responsible in this matter-

The parents were quoted as saying they were satisfied with Collins' confession. My response would have been slightly different. I would told Collins to stay in prison, for that would be the only safe place for him to live.

[MojoRisen]

25 years in law enforcement :) - then you know they trump charges....

Don't be an *** hat - glad we didn't sign him -

MD

[Big Red Ron]

No deals are struck W/O prosecution- The jury does not deal with the defendants.

They did not go to Trial- the only other trial was HUNG

Sorry holmesBlind Plea, Jury recomends (wierd texas) and now the judge has to accept or change the recomended sentence.

[MojoRisen]

No chance- that deal is struck with the Prosecution - i promise you guys

any change of sentence at the last minute will result in trial.

[Big Red Ron]

No chance- that deal is struck with the Prosecution - i promise you guys

any change of sentence at the last minute will result in trial.Dude, THAT is exactly how it happened and exactly how shyt happens in texass.

You're supposed to get lenience for entering a blind plead (not garunteed by the prosecutors) then the judge decides whether or not to accept the suggested sentencing (BY THE JURY).

[okiewaker]

I must have missed something. He plead guilty recently yet the incident happened 3 years ago? I don't get. Like I said, I must have missed something. Oh well.

[usmc-sooner]

No chance- that deal is struck with the Prosecution - i promise you guys

any change of sentence at the last minute will result in trial.

prosecution and defense have both said no deal was struck. No trumped charges he pled guilty after 3 years of denying it. Remember he originally said it was consensual and his defense told him a 12 year old could not legally consent. He then denied but the prosecution turned the guys who were with him. He does not want this to go to trial.

[MojoRisen]

Is he going to turn states evidence? If Texas gives you a break on pleading guilty - I have to ask questions.

[usmc-sooner]

Is he going to turn states evidence? If Texas gives you a break on pleading guilty - I have to ask questions.

he's already plead guilty, why would he turn states evidence? and on what? Maybe he could turn in that crook Pickens or his cronie Mike (I'm a man I'm 40 unless you're a 12 year old girl) Gundy.

[MojoRisen]

I am thinking a deal was indeed struck- either lack of evidence or maybe when they retrial the other dude- he will be a key witness.

That is all I am saying-

[usmc-sooner]

I am thinking a deal was indeed struck- either lack of evidence or maybe when they retrial the other dude- he will be a key witness.

That is all I am saying-

I see, didn't think about that. Maybe, some of the guys with him were older than him, I believe.

[Crimsontothecore]

I get tired of people trying to blame a 12 year old by saying she lied about her age and snuck out of the house.
Here are some facts as reported by the Texarkana Gazette:
Collins and three other men called the girls at their home and offered to pick them up. They got the 12 year old drunk and took turns at her. They left her in the back yard of a home a block away from her house. The nurse who examined her after the incident testified that her injuries were consistant with sexual assult.

These facts came out during the first defendants trial that took place before Collins.
Fact is, even if she were 16, or 18, or 25 it doesn't matter! If you get a girl drunk and you and three of your friends take turns having sex with her...YOU ARE GUILTY OF RAPE!

[Big Red Ron]

I am thinking a deal was indeed struck- either lack of evidence or maybe when they retrial the other dude- he will be a key witness.

That is all I am saying-He too was a minor at the time. Two of the other defendants were over 18 but no deal is expressed in a "Blind plea" situation.

[MojoRisen]

Yeah- now we no better - those guys should go to Jail - 17 year old on a prom night - mabe not so much -

[NYC Poke]

The "bargain" he got was that by pleading out, he likely was able to keep the most damning evidence away from the jury.

[OSUAggie]

Back to the original topic, wasn't Willie Williams a felon before Miami even signed him?

I'm sure there have been many others at lower profile schools.

OSU will get roasted in the media for this. I'm glad they didn't make a knee-jerk reaction and that the acting president is handling it rather than Mike. Mike's been acting like a moron the past few weeks, and I haven't quite figured out why.

There's a lot more to the Collins case than the black and white (no pun intended), and I'm glad Mojo was actually reading into it a bit. Hopefully more facts will come to light as time passes.

[usmc-sooner]

Back to the original topic, wasn't Willie Williams a felon before Miami even signed him?

I'm sure there have been many others at lower profile schools.

OSU will get roasted in the media for this. I'm glad they didn't make a knee-jerk reaction and that the acting president is handling it rather than Mike. Mike's been acting like a moron the past few weeks, and I haven't quite figured out why.

There's a lot more to the Collins case than the black and white (no pun intended), and I'm glad Mojo was actually reading into it a bit. Hopefully more facts will come to light as time passes.

yeah there are other felons in other schools, Allen Iverson at Georgetown for one but I can't think of any other sex offenders, it's just not good for the University.

I liken it to getting to the World Series then you gang rape a 12 year old and you get swept, your dissapointed but at least you got to the World Series. Hey T. Boone I think I need some more qualudes.

[Desert Sapper]

I get tired of people trying to blame a 12 year old by saying she lied about her age and snuck out of the house.
Here are some facts as reported by the Texarkana Gazette:
Collins and three other men called the girls at their home and offered to pick them up. They got the 12 year old drunk and took turns at her. They left her in the back yard of a home a block away from her house. The nurse who examined her after the incident testified that her injuries were consistant with sexual assult.

These facts came out during the first defendants trial that took place before Collins.
Fact is, even if she were 16, or 18, or 25 it doesn't matter! If you get a girl drunk and you and three of your friends take turns having sex with her...YOU ARE GUILTY OF RAPE!

All of this is pretty disgusting. Football stars are treated like demigods in some places. He and his friends must have bought into the hype their community was throwing at them. This poor girl was nothing but another object to be used and abused by Collins and his buddies. Much as I would like to think that my children would make the right decision when it comes to that, celebrity can be a very powerful motivator. I can only hope they don't ever end up associated with a sick bastard like this.

[MojoRisen]

I get tired of people trying to blame a 12 year old by saying she lied about her age and snuck out of the house.
Here are some facts as reported by the Texarkana Gazette:
Collins and three other men called the girls at their home and offered to pick them up. They got the 12 year old drunk and took turns at her. They left her in the back yard of a home a block away from her house. The nurse who examined her after the incident testified that her injuries were consistant with sexual assult.

These facts came out during the first defendants trial that took place before Collins.
Fact is, even if she were 16, or 18, or 25 it doesn't matter! If you get a girl drunk and you and three of your friends take turns having sex with her...YOU ARE GUILTY OF RAPE!


Are you a Juriour??????? Shiate- I guess we aren't at war either -

What I will say is clearly you are not- and the fact that you would paste falze info on the web makes me want to puke-

[NYC Poke]

He's off the team.

Collins off OSU team for good
From staff reports

STILLWATER -- Chris Collins is off the Oklahoma State football team for good, the school announced Monday, but he will remain on scholarship.
Last Tuesday, Collins plead guilty to sexual assault in a case relating to an incident with a 12-year-old girl when Collins was a high school junior. The jury in Collins' hometown of Texarkana, Texas has recommended Collins serve a five-year term through probation. A judge will decide the final sentence on Dec. 10.


"Oklahoma State University's head football coach, Mike Gundy met today with Chris Collins to discuss his situation." said Marlene Strathe, interim OSU System CEO and President, in a statement. "Chris has been a model student-athlete since he arrive at OSU last year and coach Gundy felt that he had earned the privilege of hearing the decision face-to-face from his head coach.

"During the meeting Coach Gundy informed Chris that he would no longer be a member of the football team and the University supports Coach Gundy's decision."

Last week, two days following Collins' guilty plea, OSU announced that Collins was suspended from the team through the end of the season.

"Because of the way Chris has conducted himself since coming to OSU, we will honor his athletic scholarship so that he can continue his education at OSU," Strathe's statement said. "If he is so inclined. If he decides to transfer to another school, we will assist him in doing so. We feel deeply sad for everyone involved."

Collins, a linebacker, played in four games this season and had 31 total tackles.

http://newsok.com/article/3168337/1194907797

[BHud]

Hate to jump in during your pedophile defense but uhm.......she's 12. She can't give consent. It's all rape, regardless of her saying yes.


Dude- I don't want a wrap on this by defending Mr. Collins- but keep things in perspective. There are 12 year olds that look 12 and then there are 12 year olds that look 18... if I were 17 - and not a legal adult... I would have made out with the girl and probably took it as far as she wanted to go.

No bull- keep it in perspective - I don't know much about this case but the fact that it seems consential - and she lied about her age most likely - makes me want to puke that he was tried as an adult in this...

Did she claim rape????? I guess if she had regrets she might...

[Stitch Face]

and then there are 12 year olds that look 18...

There are if you're drunk. And stupid. And a pedophile.

[usmc-sooner]

He's off the team.

Collins off OSU team for good
From staff reports

STILLWATER -- Chris Collins is off the Oklahoma State football team for good, the school announced Monday, but he will remain on scholarship.
Last Tuesday, Collins plead guilty to sexual assault in a case relating to an incident with a 12-year-old girl when Collins was a high school junior. The jury in Collins' hometown of Texarkana, Texas has recommended Collins serve a five-year term through probation. A judge will decide the final sentence on Dec. 10.


"Oklahoma State University's head football coach, Mike Gundy is an idiot and and not a very good coach." said Marlene Strathe, interim OSU System CEO and President, in a statement. "Chris has been a model student-athlete since he arrive at OSU last year and coach Gundy felt that he had earned the privilege of hearing the decision face-to-face from his head coach.

"During the meeting Coach Gundy informed Chris that he would no longer be a member of the football team and the University supports Coach Gundy's decision."

Last week, two days following Collins' guilty plea, OSU announced that Collins was suspended from the team through the end of the season.

"Because of the way Chris has conducted himself since coming to OSU, we will honor his athletic scholarship so that he can continue his education at OSU," Strathe's statement said. "If he is so inclined. If he decides to transfer to another school, we will assist him in doing so. We feel deeply sad for everyone involved."

Collins, a linebacker, played in four games this season and had 31 total tackles, and raped a 12 year old

http://newsok.com/article/3168337/1194907797

sounds about right

[Sooner_Havok]

Sounds like Holder and Gumby decided they didn't want any more of the bad PR they were getting

[Civicus_Sooner]

Keeping the dude on scholorship ****es me off as a tax payer.

[MojoRisen]

There are if you're drunk. And stupid. And a pedophile.


You guys seem to forget that he was 17 and she said she was 16 -

No brainer get laid - especially at a Prom party- what 12 year olds go to a prom party- that is easy to assume she is at least 16 -

Other than that - I have no other defense for the collins kid after I found out they tag teamed it.

One thing I will say is that- another Jury was hung in the trial with the other guy involved- I guarantee you we do not have all the facts in this case and it is said for all involved for sure.

Chris should not have been tried as an adult in my opinion as he was not an adult when this happened.

[KingBarry]

What are the facts? I have just read this whole thread and it still seems unclear whether or not a "deal was struck" on Collins's confession. All the press says "no deal," but some on here seem to have or claim inside knowledge?

Does anyone actually know this?

Still and all, the guy is a convicted child rapist. Even if the conviction is wrong and he was railroaded or whatever, HE IS A CONVICTED CHILD RAPIST.

Given that fact, he shouldn't be on any college football teams, because he makes the schools look bad. And frankly the guy's probably got some other business he should be investing his time in.

[MojoRisen]

As a tax payer I am ****ed he is not locked up- no way a judge sentences him if the Jury already recommended probation.

There was no trial he plead bargained clearly - the other trial was hung and is being retried- keep in mind Jury's are selected from law abiding citizens and if they were hung- don't call me an asshat because I defend a person until he is proven guilty....

for those who just throw stones at people who are charged with these crimes need to remember how many innocent people have gone to prison based on false accusations -

DUKE ring a bell for anyone here? A lot of the time it is BS - Frankly if he himself was not an adult at the time - can you really call him a child rapist -

Not like they forced her- it is just an ridiculous situation- and the girl had no business pretending to be 16 at a Prom Party - everyone here knows Prom is where many girls plan on loosing the dress - etc.

[Desert Sapper]

The moral of the story you should all pass on to your male children is to keep it in your pants if you haven't known a girl for longer than the 10 minutes it took you to get your drunken pants off. It prevents STD, it prevents complications, and it keeps you from facing serious jail time. And no amount of football stardom can protect you any better.

The morals you should all pass on to your female children is to always stay in a situation you can control (if possible), always know that a man has that one thing on his mind 100% of the time, and lying about your age is nothing but trouble. 9 times out of 10, these rules will keep you out of trouble. The 10th time just requires that you have daddy on speed dial so you can let him know where you are. He'll take care of the rest.

This message was made possible by your tax dollars, as I am writing it from a government computer.

[Civicus_Sooner]

Even if she was 18, she was was unconcious and made to have relations with multiple people. Rape is rape, that dude is lucky to still be walking or living. I guess we handle things differently in our family.

[MojoRisen]

Civicus - I agree with your statement - I disagree that we have the facts in that matter.

If that is the case- what Jury in the world with exception of China would not throw away the key and lock these guys up for what they did.

I am done with this thread anyway- but to just say she was uconcious is a lie - that is my opinion.

Opinion as we do not know the facts- all I know is a jury was hung in the other trial and they would not be hung if it was as simple as her being unconcious.

[stoopified]

While Collins was booted off the team,he is allowed to keep his schooly and that is a CRIME against morality.I don't know if the girl was unconcious or not bot I know 2 things 1)she was 12,22) she was intoxicated which in Oklahoma (at least back 22 years ago when I was a police officer) means a woman no matter what age is incapable of consent,therefore any sex is nonconsential and therefore rape.All that is a moot point however AS COLLINS HASW BEEN CONVICTED OF FELONY AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT.I just hope the judge grows a set of cojones on 12/10.

For all you Collins defenders,how many of you want Collins and booze and your 12 yr old niece/daughter/sister/grandaughter in a motel room alone?

[DrRedDirt]

This crime has split the local town down the middle. It has been very harmful to race relations, and in East Texas some blacks and whites do not get along very well anyhow. The fact that the girl was 12 years old and white and the 4 young men involved were old enough to know better and black has been very hard for some to accept. The blacks say that the young men are getting railroaded and the whites say the black athletes are getting off light.I don't know if that is the reason for the hung jury or not, but it could not have helped matters.

[MojoRisen]

While Collins was booted off the team,he is allowed to keep his schooly and that is a CRIME against morality.I don't know if the girl was unconcious or not bot I know 2 things 1)she was 12,22) she was intoxicated which in Oklahoma (at least back 22 years ago when I was a police officer) means a woman no matter what age is incapable of consent,therefore any sex is nonconsential and therefore rape.All that is a moot point however AS COLLINS HASW BEEN CONVICTED OF FELONY AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT.I just hope the judge grows a set of cojones on 12/10.

For all you Collins defenders,how many of you want Collins and booze and your 12 yr old niece/daughter/sister/grandaughter in a motel room alone?

I have had sex with several of drunk females- doesn't mean they did not want too- what the hell...

ALso hell no I would not want my 12 year old out at a Prom party with alcohol and high school kids looking to get laid on Prom night.

She should not have been there and lying about her age- that is what is up with this case- rape is the question...

The adults involved in this- how are they walking ----- what the hell.

[yukonsooner]

[QUOTE=MojoRisen]I have had sex with several of drunk females- doesn't mean they did not want too- what the hell...

QUOTE]


This statement explains alot of your comments.

[MojoRisen]

YUKon- woman drink and ussually get hot -

ever had a lady friend over drink a couple of bottles of wine and get after it.

Don't take me wrong but if someone says that a woman who is drunk and has sex is being raped- means the entire country and bar scene needs to go to Prison- and is absolutely idiotic- rediculous

Hope you get it big guy- the rest of the country is not on Prohabition.

Mojo

[usmc-sooner]

first she was not at a prom party he asked her to sneak out and he picked her up at her house. Second he not been falsely accused he had a lawyer and after denying for a couple of years, he pled guilty. Everyone who has seen her picture says she looks 12, and he admitted he knew her for a month.
Don't see where this racially divides people. Do blacks and whites both not agree with a Jr in HS who could probably get laid by half the kids his age, went out and purposely picks up a 12 year old 6th grader gets her drunk and then pulls a gang bang.
Finally if you know a girl for a month, you know she's not a year behind you in school, don't try to say she lied about her age. If you screw a 12 year old it's a crime whether she says she's 40. If a 12 year old tells you it's ok to murder her that doesn't make it ok, if she tells you to go rob a store it doesn't make it ok. If a 12 year old tells you she would like some crack does it make it OK for you to give her crack? No.

[MojoRisen]

Everything I have read says it is an after Prom Party - if he knew her and clearly knew she was 12 - he will rott in hell-

I thought people would find this article interesting- just google it.

In the British study, bartenders were shown pictures of people aged 13 through 22 and asked to guess their ages. They judged about one of every five 13-year-old girls to be over 18, while they correctly identified the 13-year-old boys 97 percent of the time.

[usmc-sooner]

he picked her up at her house, and took her to a hotel room. I believe some are saying it was in his best interest to plead guilty before a jury saw the case the prosecution had, which included her rape kit and picture.

[DrRedDirt]

This link will make your Mojo rise

http://www.orangepower.com/showthread.php?t=44196&page=4

If the OSU fans are stating the truth from a Texas DA. I don't see how anyone can support Mr Collins for anything but a cell.

[NYC Poke]

This link will make your Mojo rise

http://www.orangepower.com/showthread.php?t=44196&page=4

If the OSU fans are stating the truth from a Texas DA. I don't see how anyone can support Mr Collins for anything but a cell.


I'm long past defended Collins for what he did or Gundy for signing him. But I don't think Donnyboy has the facts right on that.

While I practiced law for 7 years in Texas, I was in-house for a corporation and our criminal matters were decidedly different from the Collins case. My knowledge of TX criminal law and procedure comes mostly from studying for the bar exam and talking with friends who practice criminal law.

But grand jury testimony is secret. Records involving rape cases are usually sealed, as are most court documents involving minors. Someone with Westlaw or LEXIS, feel free to prove me wrong about this.

I agree with the overarching sentiment that Gundy should have a better job looking into this. The case was a loser. I hope this incident promotes change at our school and others where the athletic department consults with counsel before taking on any kids with legal issues. I don't want to be embarrassed like this again.

[MojoRisen]

I read the testimony from the Jackson trial- after I caught some grief on this thread- I figured I better research some more- it took a while to dig this up but here it is-

It seems the prosecutions key witness changed her story on the stand and that is the main reason why the jury was hung- there was also another woman witness involved who only heard moaning from the hotel bedroom.

I think the evidence in this case is pretty sick regardless of the outcome - but clearly it is a problem when the prosecution’s key witness change stories in trial after giving signed statements to get it too trial -

I think that Chris Collins will indeed be a witness in the other trials - they all have different defense teams based on the fact that the prosecution needs more witnesses of the actual event after this debacle - and the lessor of two evils is to get the older kids involved in this alledged crime-



Jackson is the first of the accused to have his day in court.

To illustrate his theory of police misconduct, Lee called several people to testify whose statements had been taken by police in the days following the alleged crime. Among them was the then-15-year-old friend of the alleged victim whose memory of events now differs substantially from two statements she gave on May 23 and May 24, 2004.

“I don’t remember him having sex with her,” said the friend, testifying under the pseudonym Lea Turner. “I don’t remember seeing him with her.”

But Turner’s statements, one taken by an Arkansas-side police officer the day the girls were dropped off a block from the victim’s home at 6:30 a.m., and one taken the following day by Detective Chris Lee of the Texas-side Police Department, tell a different story. In them, she describes seeing Jackson engaged in various sex acts with the alleged victim, whose level of intoxication, the victim said Wednesday, was such that she remembered little. Turner’s statements to police identify Jackson as the one who mixed the girls cocktails of vodka and Sunny Delight orange drink before serving them plastic cups filled with straight vodka.

Clyde Lee also called Anna Williams as a defense witness. Williams was present in the hotel room and consumed no alcohol. Williams denied seeing anyone engage in sexual activity though she did say the victim spent time in the bedroom of the suite.

“All I heard was moans,” Williams testified of the sounds she heard coming from the bedroom.

Williams also denied having helped Aaron Johnson destroy videotape referred to in Jackson’s statements. Williams’ statement and testimony make no mention of a video camera. Jackson’s statements, however, describe Aaron Johnson and Williams acting to make the tape unplayable. No evidence of a camera or videotape, other than references in Jackson’s statements, was introduced during the trial.

Clyde Lee also cited the lack of DNA evidence presented by the state as proof of a weak case against Jackson. Lockhart responded by handling three small paper sacks that crime scene investigator Steven Womack had testified Wednesday contained empty condom wrappers.

But most distressing to members of Jackson’s family and a large group of supporters who sat through the trial was their belief that Jackson had been duped by the girl about her age.

Out of the jury’s presence, Clyde Lee questioned Turner, Williams and Jackson about their perceptions of the alleged victim’s maturity. Such testimony was not allowed by Bowie County District Judge Leon Pesek during the trial because of Texas law, which says no person younger than 14 can consent to sex regardless of the circumstances. Pesek ruled the testimony was not only irrelevant to jurors making a decision regarding Jackson’s guilt but that it carried the potential to mislead them into thinking a mistaken belief about the girl’s age was a plausible defense for Jackson’s behavior.

Pesek told the lawyers he would decide later whether to allow the jury to hear the testimony during the punishment phase if they returned a guilty verdict.

Williams testified she thought the victim appeared younger than the average high school student and had voiced her opinion to Charles Johnson at the party. Charles Johnson, Williams said, asked the girl in front of her how old she was. Williams, Turner and Jackson all testified the girl professed her age to be 16.

Assistant District Attorney Kristian Young asked Jackson why he had not mentioned the girl’s alleged characterization of her age as 16 in his signed statement. Young presented Jackson with a photo of the girl taken the day after the alleged assault. Jackson admitted she appeared young in the photo but added she had worn makeup the night of the party.

In their closing arguments, both Clyde Lee and Lockhart argued their positions with passion.

“I think one of the things prosecutors have to do is say what we’re scared of, what bothers me about this case,” Lockhart said about what might make a juror have sympathy for Jackson. “Maybe she got what she deserved.”

But Lockhart told the jury that choosing the wrong person for a friend and making other poor decisions didn’t invalidate the protection the law gives.

“I can’t make people tell the truth on that witness stand,” Lockhart said to the jury regarding Turner’s testimony. “It’s human nature to tell yourself after three years you don’t know. They don’t want to remember.”

Lockhart also dismissed Clyde Lee’s premise that the jury should ignore Jackson’s confession because of any doubt Chris Lee may have failed to warn him of his rights as mandated by the Constitution.

“Mr. Jackson’s Miranda rights are at the top of his signed statement,” Lockhart said. “If you think Chris Lee tried to railroad Mr. Jackson, find him not guilty on all three counts.”

As they filled the hallway outside Pesek’s courtroom, Jackson and his supporters locked hands and bowed their heads in prayer. Jackson lost his composure and embraced his mother.

If the jury returns a guilty verdict on any one of the three counts Jackson faces, a punishment phase will begin. Character witnesses and any testimony Pesek permits regarding factors, such as Jackson’s testimony about the age he believed the girl to be, may be heard by the jury to help them determine Jackson’s sentence. Lockhart and Young will have the option of cross-examining any person who sits in the witness box. The punishment range available to the jury spans from probation to a sentence of life in a Texas prison.