NCAA honing in on BUSH!

[MojoRisen]

Dark Days ahead for the evil empire! This will not go away now!

Yahoo! Sports is reporting NCAA investigators listened to recordings that allegedly establish an improper financial relationship between former USC running back Reggie Bush and a would-be sports marketing agent. The NCAA is investigating claims that Bush and his family received cash and benefits while at USC. [details]

[soonersn2007]

I am hoping that the lack of honesty and forthcomingness of uSUC increases the amount of penalties that will be eventually levied against this sorry-a$$ university.

[MojoRisen]

NCAA Investigators: "We've got Bush" taped conversations implicating he took money for improper favors.

Seriously though - that is like letting fly's into a room full of shiate- SUC is done - I can't see them getting out of a mess with audio tapes involved.

[Civicus_Sooner]

A looong time coming.

[MamaMia]

If the NCAA doesn't nail USC to the wall, others schools who have been sanctioned for less, would have legitimate reasons to make formal complaints.

The whole link...
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AkR7iY1RZuZ3ZsbkB1ERlTA5nYcB?slug=ys-bush110807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[85sooners]

:eek: :pop:

[EnidHighSooner]

I would like to see scholarships taken away just like they did to us, and there games from last season and the National Championship. I'm not saying OU should get the NC, because I don't want it.

[TexasLidig8r]

Tap the brakes and put away the pitchforks for just a moment.

In order to assess severe sanctions, the NCAA has to first find that the school, knew, or in the exercise of reasonable diligence, should have known of the infractions.

Absent this evidence, the NCAA must find that the school, in the exercise of reasonable monitoring systems, would have detected the violations. This is where the lack of institutional controls comes into play.

The article does not set forth any evidence of either of these situations, other than saying, the NCAA has obtained records of telephone calls made from the coaching staff. The article does NOT set forth to whom the calls were made or the general substance of the calls.

In all reasonable probability, there is sufficient evidence to require USC to forfeit games in late 2004 and 2005 based on the fact alone that USC apparently used an ineligible player.

However, in order to reduce scholarships or take away bowl games, they must find evidence that the school was complicit, or had knowledge, or that their compliance department was lacking or negligent. IF this information comes to light, the NCAA will undoubtedly impose severe sanctions because of USC's failure to cooperate.

Once again.. be patient.

[stoopified]

I heard they also caught a bigt-time Irish booster on tape offering Bush money to transfer to ND.Can't say for certain but the voice sounded like Regis.At least I thought so when he was taped saying :Reggie,who wants to be a millionaire?

[stoopified]

Did I forget to mention that they also have a tape of Mack?On it he says: Reggie we got a bag full of money with your name on it if Y'all transfer to UT.You would fit in fine here with all my dopeheads and jailbirds. :D

[Texas Golfer]

I would like to see scholarships taken away just like they did to us, and there games from last season and the National Championship. I'm not saying OU should get the NC, because I don't want it.

I do. If I get a hole-in-one that bounces off of a tree, it's still a "1" on the scorecard and I'll mount that ball on the wall like I did the others. Eight national championships sounds better than seven. In the years to come, it won't matter.

Remember when we went undefeated but couldn't get the trophy because we were on probation? USC had no problem accepting the trophy even though they were #2 in the polls. And nobody today talks about how they didn't earn it. Nobody will talk tomorrow either.

[r5TPsooner]

I say SMU them.

[fadada1]

in this f-ed up world we live in (especially in LA), i wouldn't be suprised if 1- usc did EVERYTHING in their power to put a stop to this. by that i mean bribery, extortion, laundering, etc... i don't see any usc officials trying this, but there are some big money boosters that might. 2- i wouldn't be suprised, again given that it's LA, that some whacko put a "hit" out on this guy.

maybe i watch too much TV, but things like this happen when a lot of money is involved. i'm also a moron, but that's irrelevent (and inakurit).

[Texas Golfer]

Tap the brakes and put away the pitchforks for just a moment.

In order to assess severe sanctions, the NCAA has to first find that the school, knew, or in the exercise of reasonable diligence, should have known of the infractions.

Absent this evidence, the NCAA must find that the school, in the exercise of reasonable monitoring systems, would have detected the violations. This is where the lack of institutional controls comes into play.

The article does not set forth any evidence of either of these situations, other than saying, the NCAA has obtained records of telephone calls made from the coaching staff. The article does NOT set forth to whom the calls were made or the general substance of the calls.

In all reasonable probability, there is sufficient evidence to require USC to forfeit games in late 2004 and 2005 based on the fact alone that USC apparently used an ineligible player.

However, in order to reduce scholarships or take away bowl games, they must find evidence that the school was complicit, or had knowledge, or that their compliance department was lacking or negligent. IF this information comes to light, the NCAA will undoubtedly impose severe sanctions because of USC's failure to cooperate.

Once again.. be patient.

Two things:

First, if the NCAA expected Stoops to know that Bomar and Quinn were receiving pay without doing the work, it is more reasonable that Carroll knew that Bush's family was receiving more than a quarter of a million dollars and living in a mansion.

Secondly, Stoops and OU got hammered anyway after self-punishing the school. Carroll, at a minimum, should have imposed self-sanctions after this came to light instead of sticking his head in the sand.

[fwsooner22]

Tap the brakes and put away the pitchforks for just a moment.

In order to assess severe sanctions, the NCAA has to first find that the school, knew, or in the exercise of reasonable diligence, should have known of the infractions.

Absent this evidence, the NCAA must find that the school, in the exercise of reasonable monitoring systems, would have detected the violations. This is where the lack of institutional controls comes into play.

The article does not set forth any evidence of either of these situations, other than saying, the NCAA has obtained records of telephone calls made from the coaching staff. The article does NOT set forth to whom the calls were made or the general substance of the calls.


In all reasonable probability, there is sufficient evidence to require USC to forfeit games in late 2004 and 2005 based on the fact alone that USC apparently used an ineligible player.

However, in order to reduce scholarships or take away bowl games, they must find evidence that the school was complicit, or had knowledge, or that their compliance department was lacking or negligent. IF this information comes to light, the NCAA will undoubtedly impose severe sanctions because of USC's failure to cooperate.

Once again.. be patient.


I have no idea why people think that UT grads are pompous, arrogant and all-knowing...............;) ;) ;)

[MojoRisen]

Institutional control should come to light as to why Carrol is letting Professional Football Agents into the locker room at and after games.

That is like kids in a candy shop with out supervision if you ask me - in itself shows lack of institutional control and most coaches would agree with that.

[stoopified]

I have no idea why people think that UT grads are pompous, arrogant and all-knowing...............;) ;) ;)
Well they do have that tier 1 education thingy going for them. :D:D:D

[TexasLidig8r]

Two things:

First, if the NCAA expected Stoops to know that Bomar and Quinn were receiving pay without doing the work, it is more reasonable that Carroll knew that Bush's family was receiving more than a quarter of a million dollars and living in a mansion.

Secondly, Stoops and OU got hammered anyway after self-punishing the school. Carroll, at a minimum, should have imposed self-sanctions after this came to light instead of sticking his head in the sand.

The NCAA did not implicit Stoops in any way nor did it mention, nor imply that he knew or should have known. The NCAA did implicate the Compliance Department at OU for lack of proper oversight regarding student athlete's employment.

You're trying to compare apples and turnips.

[Texas Golfer]

The NCAA did not implicit Stoops in any way nor did it mention, nor imply that he knew or should have known. The NCAA did implicate the Compliance Department at OU for lack of proper oversight regarding student athlete's employment.

You're trying to compare apples and turnips.

I guess that's why they ordered Stoops' personal record be adjusted to reflect the vacated losses. It was because they didn't hold him accountable.

[Funky G]

28 -21

[SteelClip49]

USC will get out of this somehow; Steven Spielberg will probably bail USC out or something.

[sooneron]

I wonder which nfl job Pete will bolt for before the shiat hits the fan.

[TexasLidig8r]

I guess that's why they ordered Stoops' personal record be adjusted to reflect the vacated losses. It was because they didn't hold him accountable.

So, what you are saying is that even though the school does not have to reflect those games as losses, Stoops does? Can you point out in the NCAA sanctions where it says that?

Or is it merely... since the wins are no longer included in the school's (and as a result, Stoops) record, his winning percentage is decreased because of fewer victories reflected?

[Dan Thompson]

I can just hear some USC types - hey Reggie where did you get that Chevy Impala? Oh some friends just gave me $13,000 so I could buy it.

[Scott D]

Tap the brakes and put away the pitchforks for just a moment.

In order to assess severe sanctions, the NCAA has to first find that the school, knew, or in the exercise of reasonable diligence, should have known of the infractions.

The precedent has been set that the school's compliance department should have known of said payments. The Jarrett incident has already been a singular mark against the USC Compliance Dept.


Absent this evidence, the NCAA must find that the school, in the exercise of reasonable monitoring systems, would have detected the violations. This is where the lack of institutional controls comes into play.

Lack of Institutional Control comes into the picture in two different ways. First, if the NCAA decides that USC's lack of willingness to be forthcoming about the matter is a cover up of any sort, they're looking at a Texas A&M treatment at minimum. Secondly, it's also in the same two year span as "Apartment-Gate" which would make it the second failure to comply in a short period of time.


The article does not set forth any evidence of either of these situations, other than saying, the NCAA has obtained records of telephone calls made from the coaching staff. The article does NOT set forth to whom the calls were made or the general substance of the calls.

In all reasonable probability, there is sufficient evidence to require USC to forfeit games in late 2004 and 2005 based on the fact alone that USC apparently used an ineligible player.

I'm in agreement with you here...however, two incidents involving the football program in the span of a year+ will likely increase the severity of penalty by the NCAA.


However, in order to reduce scholarships or take away bowl games, they must find evidence that the school was complicit, or had knowledge, or that their compliance department was lacking or negligent. IF this information comes to light, the NCAA will undoubtedly impose severe sanctions because of USC's failure to cooperate.

Once again we go back to the payments whether or not the USC staff was aware of them, should have been caught at some point by the Compliance Department. The stonewalling efforts are probably bigger in my eyes than whether or not there was actual knowledge, because the actions speak of their being knowledge and an attempt to impede the investigation.


Once again.. be patient.

You realize you're talking to people who think that the NCAA decided in 5 minutes what kind of penalty to impose on OU instead of it taking over 6 months after the investigation was completed.

[Desert Sapper]

I'll gloat if and when the NCAA imposes something. Until then, I'm going to assume that they'll let the golden children off with nothing more than a warning. Should they get more? Yes. Should we have received less? Yes. Is the world fair? No. Let's get over it.

[SoonerMom2]

I can just hear some USC types - hey Reggie where did you get that Chevy Impala? Oh some friends just gave me $13,000 so I could buy it.

That is what is going to get USC -- Bush's lifestyle changed right under their nose and they didn't check? Excuse me but we are talking much bigger bucks then Bomar and we immediately cooperated.

If they don't pull games, then it gives schools that have had games pulled for less and have cooperated the incentive to sue the NCAA for lack of fairness. No matter what people say about getting over it, you cannot allow something to stand as a precedent because it will only get worse.

Somehow having someone from Miami U in FL as the head of infractions doesn't sit well with me since that program has been full of trouble for years. A lot of the time Miami skated including when I was in FL last year when they had the famous fight and little happened to either school. Most of FL couldn't believe there were no real sanctions against both schools. The Daytona Beach paper had an article about how it was actually rival gang members that started the fight.

[Spartan(Sooner at Heart)]

Don't hold your breath for any aggressive action by the NCAA. This case is very similar to the Fab Five investigation at Michigan. U-M refused to cooperate for damn near a decade. Eventually the details came out only because the booster in question was investigated by the FBI (not the NCAA). For Trojan haters, it seems that the best case scenario here is that a cloud hangs over the program and hinders recruiting for years to come. I assume that coach Stoops could swoop in and pick up a few potential USC studs if they feared probation/sanctions. Other Pac-10 programs would likely benefit handsomely. That scenario played out up here for Izzo and he hasn't looked back.

[MojoRisen]

negative recruiting! Pay back!

[SoonerRecon]

I have no idea why people think that UT grads are pompous, arrogant and all-knowing...............;) ;) ;)

go chase an ambulance law boy. everyone knows that the ncaa makes their own rules up as they go along, and answer to no one.

[Scott D]

Don't hold your breath for any aggressive action by the NCAA. This case is very similar to the Fab Five investigation at Michigan. U-M refused to cooperate for damn near a decade. Eventually the details came out only because the booster in question was investigated by the FBI (not the NCAA). For Trojan haters, it seems that the best case scenario here is that a cloud hangs over the program and hinders recruiting for years to come. I assume that coach Stoops could swoop in and pick up a few potential USC studs if they feared probation/sanctions. Other Pac-10 programs would likely benefit handsomely. That scenario played out up here for Izzo and he hasn't looked back.

Pretty sure Michigan basketball did feel the heat and got some penalties for it.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Two things:

Bush's family was ...living in a mansion.



This is inakrit.

[SOONER STEAKER]

Wham bam thank you mam. Can you say BUSTED!! USC is no longer, send that trophy to Norman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BOOMER

[CORNholio]

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5045/uscnopeteeo6.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uscnopeteeo6.jpg)

[jrsooner]

The NCAA did not implicit Stoops in any way nor did it mention, nor imply that he knew or should have known. The NCAA did implicate the Compliance Department at OU for lack of proper oversight regarding student athlete's employment.

You're trying to compare apples and turnips.Technically, the home should have been declared to the compliance department at suc, just like the work should have been declared to OU's compliance department by the players. Same thing.

The things these guys have to declare each year is far reaching. This is something that the suc department should have been on top of. It comes underneath benefits given to players.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Bush fires marketing agent Ornstein

Interesting timing. Coinkydink??? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/08/bush.ornstein.ap/)

[Crucifax Autumn]

This is getting a bit tired...They need to take whatever action they plan to take and give us something REAL to discuss about this subject.

[Ground_Attack]

does it matter if the University knew? after dealing with an agent, wouldn't Bush be an ineligible player, thus making SUC forfeit those games in which he played?

[fadada1]

negative recruiting is much like yanking the silica packets from clothing - eventually it will ruin you. i have a feeling this whole mess will get them.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

negative recruiting is much like yanking the silica packets from clothing - eventually it will ruin you.

Exactly!

Wait. What?

[MojoRisen]

Wham bam thank you mam. Can you say BUSTED!! USC is no longer, send that trophy to Norman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BOOMER


With all that red- if I were Darryl Dawkins I would have to atlest try and give you spek - USC is in trouble

[CatfishSooner]

F usc!

[lexsooner]

Irrespective of what other sanctions the NCAA gives to USC, if they vacate or order the forfeit of their Orange Bowl win in the 2004 season, I think the BCS has to act and do something to take the BCS national title from USC. I just can't see the BCS letting USC continue to have their BCS title even though official NCAA records either show USC vacated the win, or they lost it and OU won based on a forfeit.

It seems to me if the Orange Bowl win is vacated (win wiped off the books), then the BSC should change their rules to retroactively vacate the Trojans' BSC title. If the NCAA orders a forfeit of this win (USC credited with a loss and OU with the win), the BSC should award the BSC title to OU because that is what the NCAA record books state. Mind you, if the latter happens, it is no cause for any celebration on our part, nor would we even want it, but I'm just saying that would be the most equitable solution if USC forfeits their win over us.

[josh09]

Dark Days ahead for the evil empire! This will not go away now!

Yahoo! Sports is reporting NCAA investigators listened to recordings that allegedly establish an improper financial relationship between former USC running back Reggie Bush and a would-be sports marketing agent. The NCAA is investigating claims that Bush and his family received cash and benefits while at USC. [details]

FINALLY, its about time!

[Jacie]

As a fan of the game of football I would as soon see the records (of all schools guilty of infractions) left alone and limit the scholarships of the offending schools.

[Veritas]

So their one-peat might become a no-peat. Sweet.

[insuranceman_22]

While my dislike for suc is almost boundless and my heart says they deserve the death penalty, that's just my personal opinion. Lid makes good points, however:

"However, in order to reduce scholarships or take away bowl games, they must find evidence that the school was complicit, or had knowledge, or that their compliance department was lacking or negligent. IF this information comes to light, the NCAA will undoubtedly impose severe sanctions because of USC's failure to cooperate.

Once again.. be patient."

A lot of this is subject to someones intrep. When the ncaa checks deeply into it, like they did with us, they believed we (the University of OK) should have know about the car lot deal. We strongly disagree with that. Suc will be in the same position and what happens will largely come down to opinions from someone in the ncaa. Bush is guilty, so was Bomar, that's not a question, but with all the attempt to cover it or at least silence it I have to think suc is going to get the hammer much harder than OU did. Stoops and co. were up front and addressed the issue immediately. Suc has clamed up and and tried to wait for it to pass by non-cooperation and stalling.

Going to be interesting......I guess they could always bring an old alum. back to help with legal issues, I see that OJ has plenty of experience getting out of trouble.....

[chad]

on the note about USC vacating their wins should the NCAA go that route.

The BCS committee would be forced to make a ruling on the championship. They can go three routes.
Allow USC to keep the championship and put an * next to it explaining what happened with Bush.
Or
They could remove the championship and award no champion that year.
or
remove the championship and then give it to the #2 ranked team, which is Auburn (I'm sure they'd take it happily since they should have been given the AP championship based on precedence)