Without Emergeny Fed Intervention the DOW Will End Down Over 500 Today....

[FaninAma]

Technical indicators look ugly....as a ugly as an aggy's date on prom night.

GM's announcement was a very bad suprise for the analysts. The sub-prime messs is just starting to unwind. Things look a little scary right now. Actually, they look a lot scary right now.

If the FED stands by it's pledge to not lower the key lending rate for the rest of the year the markets could sell off in excess of 20%

Just my guess.

Oh, and have a nice day.

[Lott's Bandana]

Didn't this stuff used to happen in October?


.

[OklahomaTuba]

Fed will give in to political pressure at some point.

[Mjcpr]

I would hate to be one of your patients.

I'm afraid it doesn't look good. Sure it looks like a common cold but you could be dying from pneumonia in a matter of years.

:D

[OklahomaTuba]

Of course, there is always SOME good news...(very actually)


The company (GM) reported record third-quarter automotive revenue of $43.1 billion and record global sales for the quarter of 2.39 million cars and trucks.

[1stTimeCaller]

unless you are cashing in today or tomorrow, why does it matter?

[mdklatt]

unless you are cashing in today or tomorrow, why does it matter?

Why do you hate day traders?

[1stTimeCaller]

I thought they gave all of their money to the smart market people 8 years ago.

[OklahomaTuba]

http://www.redstate.com/files/cheneylol7bzre6.jpg

ARRGGGGHHHHH...

[mdklatt]

I thought they gave all of their money to the smart market people 8 years ago.

:D

[Curly Bill]

Hope it falls through the floor. I'll buy up me some stock and wait for it to go back up. Actually, would put more into mutuals and just let it ride...you know, not being near retirement and all that.

[royalfan5]

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/currencies/fxc.html

Here is an ugly looking chart.

[frankensooner]

http://www.dowjonesindexes.com/

pretty bad so far

[Veritas]

Yeah, the (utterly predictable) sub-prime meltdown is going to continue. I still can't believe Greenspan claims he didn't see the danger in allowing the ridiculous paper to be written. Talk about irrational exuberance.

[FaninAma]

I would hate to be one of your patients.

I'm afraid it doesn't look good. Sure it looks like a common cold but you could be dying from pneumonia in a matter of years.

:D

Well, you prepare them for the worst and when they get better and don't die they are very grateful and think you're a genius. :)

[FaninAma]

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/currencies/fxc.html

Here is an ugly looking chart.

And it will get worse.

The S&P broke below 1490. If it doesn't get back above that point before the close there will be a big sell-off in the am.

I really think than Benanke(sp?) is clueless. I really don't think he has a grasp of how serious the situation is.

One thing is for sure....either the stock market tanks or the dollar tanks a lot more. The FED can't save both of them.

The only option the FED has is to try and reinflate the real estate market and the rest of the economy which means the USD index will eventually fall to 50.

And I agree that Grrenspan knew he was creating the mother of all economic bubbles when the FED lowered the prime to 1%(or was it 1/2 %?)

Every time the FED intervenes against natural market forces it only makes the correction that much worse further down the road.

We need to elect leaders who understand the system is rigged for the benefit of big bankers and speculators.

This message brought to you by the RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT COMMITTEE.

[mdklatt]

One thing is for sure....either the stock market tanks or the dollar tanks a lot more. The FED can't save both of them.



Aren't we better off with a strong dollar?

[FaninAma]

BTW, any bear rally in the USD is due to investors frantically searching for a temporary safe heaven as they yank their capital out of the equity market. In the past the bond market has been that safe heaven but this time it won't be.

Commodities will get quickly sucked down from the market downdraft.

In essence, if the FED doesn't react quickly the best investment option won't be which investment makes you the most but which investment option loses you the least.

[FaninAma]

Aren't we better off with a strong dollar?

If you're a consumer, yes. If you're a businessman trying to sell a product against foreign competitors, no.

The problem is that the FED has, imo, lost all control over the dollar value. No longer can they manipulate it's value like Paul Rubin did in the 90's as the Treasury Secretary for Clinton.

The emergence of the Chinese, Indian and other asian economies has significantlly weakened the ability of the US and Europeans to manipulate currencies and the world economy.

You can also throw the South American economies in there. And I am sure there are several governments who are not sympathetic to the plight of the USD because of the way they were hammered and forced into unfavorable economic agreements by the World Monetary Fund....a wholly owned subsidiary of the multinational bankers and investment firms(Goldman Sachs, et al.)

[Veritas]

Bring back teh gold stannard!!!!1111

(kidding)

[mdklatt]

Why should we even be worried so much about day-to-day fluctuations of the market?

[Veritas]

Why should we even be worried so much about day-to-day fluctuations of the market?
Because MSNBC et al need you to watch their channel and visit their site so that they can claim more ad impressions. :texan:

[royalfan5]

Why should we even be worried so much about day-to-day fluctuations of the market?
Maybe not the day to day fluctuations, but the trends. And the trends aren't particularly good. The dollar has been on a steady slide for awhile, and it's starting to come home to roost.

[Hamhock]

Maybe not the day to day fluctuations, but the trends. And the trends aren't particularly good. The dollar has been on a steady slide for awhile, and it's starting to come home to roost.


aren't there some people we can bomb to fix this?

[FaninAma]

Bring back teh gold stannard!!!!1111

(kidding)

Not a bad idea. I actually think a modified gold standard would force some discipline on the markets...unlike the totally contrived policy of the FED and other central bankers. Under the current system, we are insured of sufferring through inflated bubble after inflated bubble as the continual infationary policies of the Central banks and central government caters to different segnments of economy.

First there was the equity market, then the real estate market, now the energy/commodity market.

And the one constant through time since the FED has set monetary policy is inflation. The reason that some investments appear to have "appreciated" over time is, at closer glance, just a normal inflationary increase to the falling value of the USD.

[royalfan5]

aren't there some people we can bomb to fix this?
Washington D.C would be a start.

[mdklatt]

Maybe not the day to day fluctuations, but the trends. And the trends aren't particularly good.

When Faninama was talking about "saving" the market, I assumed he meant the Fed could do some stop-gap interest rate thingamajig to stop the slide. If that's the case, shouldn't we just worry about fixing the economy in the long term and not the market in the short term? It seems like any short term fix the Fed does to artificially prop up the market is eventually going to have long term consequences that we don't want. Or maybe I just have no idea what I'm talking about.

[royalfan5]

When Faninama was talking about "saving" the market, I assumed he meant the Fed could do some stop-gap interest rate thingamajig to stop the slide. If that's the case, shouldn't we just worry about fixing the economy in the long term and not the market in the short term? It seems like any short term fix the Fed does to artificially prop up the market is eventually going to have long term consequences that we don't want. Or maybe I just have no idea what I'm talking about.
It would be to buy more time to attempt to fix things long term. Which they would probably would screw up, but I digress. The market is a herd animal, and some times you have to contain the herd a bit.

[mdklatt]

aren't there some people we can bomb to fix this?

Finland's been getting kind of uppity lately. Oooh look at us. We have a high-tech economy and high standard of living. Bastards.

IT'S NOT THE NOKIA SUGAR BOWL, IT'S THE FREEDOM SUGAR BOWL!

[FaninAma]

When Faninama was talking about "saving" the market, I assumed he meant the Fed could do some stop-gap interest rate thingamajig to stop the slide. If that's the case, shouldn't we just worry about fixing the economy in the long term and not the market in the short term? It seems like any short term fix the Fed does to artificially prop up the market is eventually going to have long term consequences that we don't want. Or maybe I just have no idea what I'm talking about.

The FED can meet emergently and cut the prime interst rate like they did in 1987. I think they've done it a couple of more times since then.

They can also emergently cut the discount rate which is different than the prime. They last did this in September after publically telling the markets "Tough Nuggie!" at their August meeting.

I wonder if Kramer will go off on the Fed like he did in August?

[FaninAma]

Of course, there is always SOME good news...(very actually)

But their good news was more than offset by the bad news from their financial division. It appears that ol' General Bull Moose has been dabling in the risky mortgage/loan industry and has taken a very big hicky in the subprime mess.

The above scenario really begs the question of how far the tentacles of the toxic SIVs,or Special Investment Vehicles(what the industry has termed the repackaging of the high risk loans.) reaches in the financial segment of the US economy.

I wonder how much exposure local small banks have to this stuff.

I think we'll see Countrywide go belly up as well as a few other big mortgage companies. I fully expect Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to be bailed out by US taxpayers all of which will add to the relentless decline of the USD.

I also think Greenspan will be remembered by history in the same vein as Hubert Hoover. Actually Hoover got a bad rap. The most guilty culprit in the Great Depression was, you guessed it, the FED who actually tightened fiscal policy in the face of enormous evidence that the economy was having a liquidity crsis. The scenario sonds a little bit familiar. :D

[Hamhock]

Finland's been getting kind of uppity lately. Oooh look at us. We have a high-tech economy and high standard of living. Bastards.

IT'S NOT THE NOKIA SUGAR BOWL, IT'S THE FREEDOM SUGAR BOWL!


damn asians.

[handcrafted]

In other news, a small chicken has filed a $1 million lawsuit against the sky, claiming that part of it fell on his house. More on this breaking story as it develops.

[tommieharris91]

FaninAma and RF5 are speaking truth here. More and more, I think, when I graduate, I will invest in Euro and wait until the first sign of devaluation of Euro, which would likely come with an appreciation of the US$. The dollar hasn't bottomed out yet. As countries sell of US currency and other US holdings, the collapse will continue.

[olevetonahill]

So did the Feds Interveine ? or did everyone lose thier asses ?

[tommieharris91]

So did the Feds Interveine ? or did everyone lose thier asses ?

If you haven't lost your *** yet, you will. But don't worry, you'll get it back in a few years.:(

[olevetonahill]

If you haven't lost your *** yet, you will. But don't worry, you'll get it back in a few years.:(
I dont have much of anass but I gots A Big belly does that count ?:D

[tommieharris91]

Just keep drinkin the Natty olevet. Everyone just might join you when the price of like, everything gets so high.

[SoonerKnight]

Washington D.C would be a start.

F.B.I. could be watching! Careful!

[SoonerKnight]

The decline of the dollar is tied to the Chinese and their Wan or am I wrong? Our trade defecit with China is also linked to the decline of the dollar. So how do we fix the decline of the dollar? Perhaps not carry such a big defecit with the Chinese. Their economy is booming because we are buying their crap. They also are part of the problem as they have started to sell off their reserves of dollars and are buying Euro's! I think we use the contaminated products they are selling us as reason to throw their economy in the tank thus bringing them down a peg or two. It is getting really dangerous for us to owe so much to the Chinese!

[FaninAma]

In other news, a small chicken has filed a $1 million lawsuit against the sky, claiming that part of it fell on his house. More on this breaking story as it develops.

I take it you don't invest in the stock market, or buy food, or buy gas, or will ever need credit to purchase anything.

You may not like what some on this board are saying but it doesn't change the fact that you will be affected significantly by the economic mess working it's way through the fiancial sector.

[FaninAma]

The decline of the dollar is tied to the Chinese and their Wan or am I wrong? Our trade defecit with China is also linked to the decline of the dollar. So how do we fix the decline of the dollar? Perhaps not carry such a big defecit with the Chinese. Their economy is booming because we are buying their crap. They also are part of the problem as they have started to sell off their reserves of dollars and are buying Euro's! I think we use the contaminated products they are selling us as reason to throw their economy in the tank thus bringing them down a peg or two. It is getting really dangerous for us to owe so much to the Chinese!

The problem is that the Chinese don't have to sell any of their estimated 1.2 trillion in USD denominated assets to cause problems. All they have to do to roil the US bond market and sink the dollar further is to reduce the amount of USD instruments of debt(treasury bonds) they are currently purchasing.

This US markets have been manipulated for years by the big banks and speculators and now the bill is coming due.

[1stTimeCaller]

I guess I don't understand what it is that I can do about this problem?

I have some money in the market, buy food, buy diesel and may use credit in the future to buy something.

I don't see why getting worked up over something I cannot control is going to change anything.

[FaninAma]

I guess I don't understand what it is that I can do about this problem?

I have some money in the market, buy food, buy diesel and may use credit in the future to buy something.

I don't see why getting worked up over something I cannot control is going to change anything.

There are 2 reasons to stay plugged in:

If your investments are in sectors that are at risk during high inflation periods(financials, REITS, industries that are dependedent on importing) you should consider rotating to a sector that holds up better under inflation.

The other reason is so you can elect leaders who don't allow the market manipulators to continue creating the financial bubbles that usually end up biting the little guy in the ***.

One good place to start is listening seriously to any candidate who wants to get rid of the Federal Reserve and who will try to impose some spending limits that can be enforced on the US Government.

[Veritas]

REITS make me super uncomfortable, always have.

[FaninAma]

Here are the problems faced by our economy and the FED summarized in a more succinct way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAwvlDJgJbM