Why don't I understand this (USC/BUSH)

[Dan Thompson]

In the LA Times today is an article about Lake's interview with the NCAA. The article is talking about the possible connection to USC, if found USC might have to forfeit 2004 and/or 2005 victories.

Then they get to the BCS title.

"The NCAA has ho jurisdiction over the BCS, so rescinding the trophy would be left to the BCS conferences and Notre Dame."

Seems like to rules committee didn't think far enough through the "what if..." process.

Shouldn't the trophy be automatically forfeited to the other team that played in the BCS Championship game?

[sooner59]

No really. As much I as I would like to take their trophy and put it in the Switzer Center, it doesnt work like that. For example....if USC forfeited all of their games, the BCS champhionship game should have been OU vs. Auburn. And we know Auburn was undefeated in the SEC. Its like the Heisman, you dont give it to the next in line, you just dont give it at all. Its not what I want either, I would love to take their trophy, but they should at least have to forfeit the hardware.

[SoonerKnight]

No, but they would have heavy restrictions put on them. It could put the hurt on them.

[Chrisrokc]

I think they should have to give up the titles, the hardware, and the games. It is only fair. Now should we get the title and hardware...... ummmm, I don't think we should. It should go back to the BCS. Those two years just wouldn't have a winners. Now if it was to go to someone it really should go to the number 2 teams after the BCS Championship game. I don't like that idea but if it has to go somewhere it should be like that.

[jwlynn64]

I think they should have to give up the titles, the hardware, and the games. It is only fair. Now should we get the title and hardware...... ummmm, I don't think we should. It should go back to the BCS. Those two years just wouldn't have a winners. Now if it was to go to someone it really should go to the number 2 teams after the BCS Championship game. I don't like that idea but if it has to go somewhere it should be like that.

I would like to take it away from Texas too but I'm thinking that Bush didn't really help them win their title. ;)

[insuranceman_22]

If they get the hammer by the NCAA, they should have to forfeit the MNC. I'd like to have the trophy at the Switzer to, but I wouldn't take it, remember guys we played in that game (sort of) and got our asses handed to us, we don't deserve it. I just want to justice on this. OU and Stoops are class organizations, they do everything they can to follow the rules and when the rules are broken, Stoops and co. take direct and quick action. When suc breaks them they all take a vow of silence and won't cooperate. I hope they get crushed!

[Sooner02]

Would it not go to the final #2 in the nation after that game? I don't think it was us. However, there is no BCS poll after the game.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Has anyone heard whether Lake met with the NCAA today as scheduled or "came down with the flu"?

[Chrisrokc]

I would like to take it away from Texas too but I'm thinking that Bush didn't really help them win their title. ;)

Opps! Haha, I thought USC won the last 100 championships. All the brainwashing has got me thinking funny ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

Would it not go to the final #2 in the nation after that game?

That would make no sense. It would go to the loser of the national championship game, if anything. But most likely the title would simply be vacated, as it should be if the allegations are true.

[arcman46]

I for one,would not want it, because we didn't deserve it the way we played.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Good thing we're having this discussion. I don't think we've had a chance to talk about it yet.

[sooner518]

I think Notre Dame should get the trophy. duh

[soonerboomer93]

In the LA Times today is an article about Lake's interview with the NCAA. The article is talking about the possible connection to USC, if found USC might have to forfeit 2004 and/or 2005 victories.

Then they get to the BCS title.

"The NCAA has ho jurisdiction over the BCS, so rescinding the trophy would be left to the BCS conferences and Notre Dame."

Seems like to rules committee didn't think far enough through the "what if..." process.

Shouldn't the trophy be automatically forfeited to the other team that played in the BCS Championship game?

In the future, please either link, or quote the full article.


For those asking, Lake did meet with the NCAA on Tuesday

article from yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Aj1j63b6vOoLo_0BhB4yVA8cvrYF?slug=ys-bush110607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)



Source: Lake, NCAA meet

By Charles Robinson and Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports

November 6, 2007

The co-founder of a failed sports marketing agency met with NCAA investigators for nearly six hours Tuesday afternoon, apparently following through on last week's vow to turn over materials tying former USC running back Reggie Bush and his family to a string of improper benefits taken while Bush played for the Trojans.

A source confirmed to Yahoo! Sports that Lloyd Lake, one of the financiers of now defunct New Era Sports & Entertainment, spent much of Tuesday afternoon with NCAA investigators in the Pasadena, Calif., office of Lake's attorney, Paul Wong. When reached Tuesday night, Wong declined comment.

"I can neither confirm nor deny that a meeting took place," Wong said.

The meeting was expected to center on Lake's financial relationship with Bush and his parents.

Lake's attorneys said last week that they were preparing to meet with NCAA investigators, a summit that was expected to include Lake submitting to a wide range of questions, as well as agreeing to turn over documents and possibly even recorded conversations between himself, Bush and Bush's stepfather LaMar Griffin. Four sources have confirmed to Yahoo! Sports that such taped conversations implicate Bush and his stepfather in a financial relationship with Lake.

Tuesday's meeting came on the heels of a lawsuit filed by Lake's attorneys last week, which is seeking $291,600 for cash, rent and other services allegedly given to Bush and his family by Lake and Michael Michaels – co-founders of now defunct New Era Sports.

The meeting could push forward the NCAA's investigation into Bush's ties with New Era Sports. Investigators have been seeking interviews with Lake and others involved since Yahoo! Sports first revealed the relationship in April of 2006. But the investigation was stalled as both Bush, his family and New Era representatives refused to speak.

Lake's interview and potential submission of documents could help the NCAA determine what sanctions, if any, it can level against USC and Bush. USC's wins in 2004 and 2005 could be forfeited, which could call into question the BCS national championship captured by the Trojans after the 2004 season. The BCS committee would be left to determine whether to strip that championship should the NCAA negate USC wins.

Bush's Heisman Trophy also hangs in the balance, as the NCAA could choose to void his statistics for the 2004 and 2005 seasons, and retroactively declare him ineligible for those seasons. The Heisman Trust would have to determine whether Bush was eligible to receive the trophy after his 2005 season.

Jason Cole and Charles Robinson are national NFL writers for Yahoo! Sports.

[soonerboomer93]

Just an FYI for any other ****tard who suggests it, you will be negged if you suggest OU deserves the Crystal Football from 2004. You should be ashamed to have any desire to claim a championship retroactively, when we lost it on the field of play (whether or not our oppenent may was cheating). At OU we win them on the field.

Oh, and those that feel they should be vacated, we still have our 2005 Holiday Bowl trophy, and we also claim a NC from a year in which we were on probation. If you don't want our 2005 victories vacated, but think that USC should have victories vacated and lose their NC, then you're a *********.

[yermom]

our trophy from probation is an AP not Coaches trophy (USC won it that year)

the BCS basically replaced the Coaches trophy

[sooneron]

I still have no idea how they started up a sports marketing company called New Era without being issued the cease and desist from New era caps.

[StoopTroup]

If suc loses the BCS Trophy....will this still be valid?

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/19/196675.jpg

[fadada1]

first of all - that auburn trophy is the gayest thing in the history of mankind. my guess is if you ask an alabama grad/fan they would tell you something similar. maybe it should read, "Auburn University self-proclaimed National Champions".

second of all - what game are you all talking about????

third - i would be happy with usc getting clobbered by the ncaa and getting stripped of their title and wins. we shouldn't get the trophies, but they definitely should get to keep them.

[setem]

Oh, and those that feel they should be vacated, we still have our 2005 Holiday Bowl trophy, and we also claim a NC from a year in which we were on probation. If you don't want our 2005 victories vacated, but think that USC should have victories vacated and lose their NC, then you're a *********.

So you are saying that what Bush and USC is doing right now is on the same level as the action at OU?

Getting paid for a job I am not really doing....then self reporting and then taking all the right steps to get the punishment stage fixed.

Vs

Accepting improper benefits(loads of money and/or a house) from a Sports Agent and by even talking to one is an NCAA violation. Then locking down and not saying a word until said Agent get greedy and decides to take everyone down.

I am not saying that OU should not be punished. But they have done all the right things and USC is doing everything they can to no have to face the issues at hand. USC got to play with the the kid who broke the rules and they won got a championship out of it!

Correct me if I am wrong...but what was our rank before Bomar got kicked off the team? We did not get to play with the kids who broke the rules now did we?

I really could care less what happens to their football team. They could disband the whole lot of them and it wouldn't phase me at all. The fact is, that I am worried about what is going at OU not anywhere else!

[StoopTroup]

I really could care less what happens to their football team. They could disband the whole lot of them and it would phase me at all. The fact is I am worried about what is going at at OU not anywhere else!
Which is why many of us here at SF.com supported President Boren and his comments about the suc investigation.

[Blitzkrieg]

Great, now Bama will get to claim another title.

[fadada1]

Great, now Bama will get to claim another title.
they already did. this just makes it legit.

[texashater#1]

Just an FYI for any other ****tard who suggests it, you will be negged if you suggest OU deserves the Crystal Football from 2004. You should be ashamed to have any desire to claim a championship retroactively, when we lost it on the field of play (whether or not our oppenent may was cheating). At OU we win them on the field.

Oh, and those that feel they should be vacated, we still have our 2005 Holiday Bowl trophy, and we also claim a NC from a year in which we were on probation. If you don't want our 2005 victories vacated, but think that USC should have victories vacated and lose their NC, then you're a *********.

dude relax they are just jokin around, ou shouldnt get the title, it should be just taken away, o yeah ou still does have the holiday bowl trophy but they are not allowed to display it. and if you call me a nOOb then you are without a doubt a fag who needs to get a life

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Oh, and those that feel they should be vacated, we still have our 2005 Holiday Bowl trophy, and we also claim a NC from a year in which we were on probation. If you don't want our 2005 victories vacated, but think that USC should have victories vacated and lose their NC, then you're a *********.

I know some other folks already mentioned this, but I gotta say something.

This is weak. We took the high road, exorcised the cancer, self-reported and self-punished, and put all our cards on the table, both good and bad. There's even reasoning as per President Boren to make a connection from Kelvin's shenanigans to the level of punishment we received from the Bomar crapfest. All of which leads to, in my opinion, excessive penalties from the NCAA. Hence the petition. Hence the motion to give the other hardworkin' boys that earned that Holiday Bowl trophy the recognition they deserve.

How's that even REMOTELY like suc's predicament again? I must've missed that connection.

Because by your logic, the fact that I shot a squirrel as a kid should earn me 20 years in Big Mac next to the other murderers.

Weaksauce.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

dude relax they are just jokin around, ou shouldnt get the title, it should be just taken away, o yeah ou still does have the holiday bowl trophy but they are not allowed to display it. and if you call me a nOOb then you are without a doubt a fag who needs to get a life

dude no ur a fag omg lol0rz!11!1!!!

Fail. Have some red chicklets from sucking up my board with a lack of sentence structure.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot something.

stfu n00b omg haxlollloolllercoaster11122@!!!!147

[Lott's Bandana]

our trophy from probation is an AP not Coaches trophy (USC won it that year)

the BCS basically replaced the Coaches trophy

1974:

OU 11-0 (AP)
suc 10-1-1 (UPI)

As stated, the UPI poll was the Coach's Poll. The coaches created a rule to ignore any school in their voting that was currently on probation...they came up with this rule in, you guessed it.....1974.

Obvious to all who benefitted from this new rule and suc proudly proclaims this championship in all their propaganda, as they do the AP title from '03.


This MNC crap has been going on for soooooo long....

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

I'm quite certain the Crystal football would be vacated but I'm still down with getting some OU 2004 National Champs shirts printed. :D :D :D

[texashater#1]

dude no ur a fag omg lol0rz!11!1!!!

Fail. Have some red chicklets from sucking up my board with a lack of sentence structure.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot something.

stfu n00b omg haxlollloolllercoaster11122@!!!!147

Ok first of all, what? Second of all i didn't know this was english class so i will start using correct grammar. Just so you know you sound like a dumb aggie making fun of how i type on a message board. Also SUCK IT!!! Get a life you dork!!

[soonerboomer93]

dude relax they are just jokin around, ou shouldnt get the title, it should be just taken away, o yeah ou still does have the holiday bowl trophy but they are not allowed to display it. and if you call me a nOOb then you are without a doubt a fag who needs to get a life

not all of them are joking around

****tard

[soonerboomer93]

I know some other folks already mentioned this, but I gotta say something.

This is weak. We took the high road, exorcised the cancer, self-reported and self-punished, and put all our cards on the table, both good and bad. There's even reasoning as per President Boren to make a connection from Kelvin's shenanigans to the level of punishment we received from the Bomar crapfest. All of which leads to, in my opinion, excessive penalties from the NCAA. Hence the petition. Hence the motion to give the other hardworkin' boys that earned that Holiday Bowl trophy the recognition they deserve.

How's that even REMOTELY like suc's predicament again? I must've missed that connection.

Because by your logic, the fact that I shot a squirrel as a kid should earn me 20 years in Big Mac next to the other murderers.

Weaksauce.

actually, no, you have 2 scenarios going on (assuming that the current investigation is true)

first you have a player who was basically paid to play. was he paid by USC, no, he was paid by someone hoping to cash in on his athletic ability. That means he was inelligible, just like our players should have been considered inelligable for being paid. That is the reason for vacated victories in our case, as would be in theirs. It's also the reason for the loss of scholarships

The second is the lack of cooperation with the NCAA/failure to monitor, et all. These are a different violation in addition to the games which occured. These are the charges that if true, will cause the NCAA to drop the hammer.

[Scott D]

I know some other folks already mentioned this, but I gotta say something.

This is weak. We took the high road, exorcised the cancer, self-reported and self-punished, and put all our cards on the table, both good and bad. There's even reasoning as per President Boren to make a connection from Kelvin's shenanigans to the level of punishment we received from the Bomar crapfest. All of which leads to, in my opinion, excessive penalties from the NCAA. Hence the petition. Hence the motion to give the other hardworkin' boys that earned that Holiday Bowl trophy the recognition they deserve.

How's that even REMOTELY like suc's predicament again? I must've missed that connection.

Because by your logic, the fact that I shot a squirrel as a kid should earn me 20 years in Big Mac next to the other murderers.

Weaksauce.

Well the linchpin in the entire matter is whether or not Lake's documents or his testimony can prove that someone in the Athletic Dept. at USC knew about or was at least aware of the situation between Lake/Michaels and Bush. So far it's widely accepted that someone at USC had to know that this 'arrangement' was going on, and was doing a pretty good job at keeping it hush hush.

If he spent 6 hours talking to the NCAA like was alleged in the article, things could definitely get very very interesting.

How ironic that ESPN's stance has been slowly creeping toward being the kid pushing the old man with a walker (USC) in front of oncoming traffic.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

I swear I heard a flushing sound while reading that article.

Anyway, we wouldn't get a NC out of it. We didn't play for the championship that year. Not that I remember, anyway.

[mdklatt]

Second of all i didn't know this was english class so i will start using correct grammar.

It's not English class, but there is, you know, reading going on so it helps to be coherent.


Book learnin'...it's not just for school.

[Jdog]

our trophy from probation is an AP not Coaches trophy (USC won it that year)

the BCS basically replaced the Coaches trophy

Do we give back 1956? In 56 we were also put on probation and we won the coaches poll (UPI).

Originally the BCS didn't replaced the coaches poll, because remember it included the AP until a couple of years ago.

UPI (United Press International) ran the coaches poll until it (UPI) folded and USAToday took over the poll.

The BCS was made to create a consensus poll of all major (AP and Coaches) and minor (computer) polls.

The Harris poll took the place of AP.

[soonerhubs]

I think our team deserves the National Championship if USC is forced to forfeit their season, and Leinart, as well as Bush, should forfeit his trophy as well because his numbers were mostly padded by Bush's Y.A.C. :pop:















































































































































:D ;)

[Texas Golfer]

Would it not go to the final #2 in the nation after that game? I don't think it was us. However, there is no BCS poll after the game.

No, because we dropped due to the loss of that game. If they were forced to forfeit, we would not have that loss, it would be a 2-0 victory. Our record would reflect an undefeated season.

[Texas Golfer]

If they get the hammer by the NCAA, they should have to forfeit the MNC. I'd like to have the trophy at the Switzer to, but I wouldn't take it, remember guys we played in that game (sort of) and got our asses handed to us, we don't deserve it. I just want to justice on this. OU and Stoops are class organizations, they do everything they can to follow the rules and when the rules are broken, Stoops and co. take direct and quick action. When suc breaks them they all take a vow of silence and won't cooperate. I hope they get crushed!

If they offered the Crystal to us, we'd be foolish to stand on principle and reject it. OU lost wins on their record and Stoops on his due to no fault of Stoops or the university. You bet your life we'd take this.

[Texas Golfer]

Well the linchpin in the entire matter is whether or not Lake's documents or his testimony can prove that someone in the Athletic Dept. at USC knew about or was at least aware of the situation between Lake/Michaels and Bush. So far it's widely accepted that someone at USC had to know that this 'arrangement' was going on, and was doing a pretty good job at keeping it hush hush.

If the NCAA felt like Stoops and the Athletic Dept should have known about Bomar taking a couple of thousand dollars that he didn't earn, shouldn't Carroll and USC have known Bush was taking more than a quarter of a million dollars?

[NYC Poke]

In the future, please either link, or quote the full article.


For those asking, Lake did meet with the NCAA on Tuesday

article from yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Aj1j63b6vOoLo_0BhB4yVA8cvrYF?slug=ys-bush110607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)


What more does the NCAA need?

[Dan Thompson]

How could USC not know. Bush got $13,000 to buy a car and I don't think he left it at home when he went to practice.

The two OU players where paid what, $1,700? Bush and family got arount $300,000.

This case seem like black mail, by Lake, to me. Bush would not settle with Lake, so Lake says he is going to spill the beans and talk to the NCAA, which the paper said he did yesterday in Pasadena.

[birddog]

I really could care less what happens to their football team. They could disband the whole lot of them and it wouldn't phase me at all. The fact is, that I am worried about what is going at OU not anywhere else!

really? how much less could you care? because i really couldn't care less. i'm at the bottom.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Ok first of all, what?

You know, it's funny. That's EXACTLY what I said, psychic friend!


Second of all i didn't know this was english class so i will start using correct grammar.

okay thank u culd u uz sum capital leters and commaz too?


Just so you know you sound like a dumb aggie making fun of how i type on a message board. Also SUCK IT!!! Get a life you dork!!

That's even more awesomesauce on my pasta of Ted Nugent. I sound like a "dumb aggie" because I called you out on a horrible, keyboard-induced slaughter of the English language. "Dumb". "Aggie".

For that nugget of wonder, yes sir, I WILL suck it! Just as soon as this dork gets a life, sir! Just as soon as I finish this delicious plate of Spaghetti Nugent which YOU made for me, kind sir!

I will relish its flavor until the end of time and crave its saucy explosion of awesomeness on my face, tongue, and eyes.

[SoonerBOI]

They can give the crystal to ND or Alabama:D . Peace everyone!

[soonerhubs]

really? how much less could you care? because i really couldn't care less. i'm at the bottom.
You could not be more right. You could try, but you would fail. :)

[Scott D]

If the NCAA felt like Stoops and the Athletic Dept should have known about Bomar taking a couple of thousand dollars that he didn't earn, shouldn't Carroll and USC have known Bush was taking more than a quarter of a million dollars?

You've got no argument from me or anyone else around here about that. However, we'll have to sit back and see how damaging Lake's testimony was, and whether or not USC will continue to publically be Sgt. Schultz and Officer Barbrady combined into one individual (I know nussing! Move alone people, nothing to see here!), or if they'll become a bit more cooperative with the NCAA in an effort to try and avoid getting an Alabama treatment.

[Leroy Lizard]

Well the linchpin in the entire matter is whether or not Lake's documents or his testimony can prove that someone in the Athletic Dept. at USC knew about or was at least aware of the situation between Lake/Michaels and Bush.

I don't believe proof is required by the NCAA. All you have to do is provide testimony the NCAA finds compelling. And USC will get nailed for not providing the necessary protocols to ensure that this couldn't have happened without them eventually finding out. They don't have to know it was taking place, just that they SHOULD have known.

[Scott D]

I don't believe proof is required by the NCAA. All you have to do is provide testimony the NCAA finds compelling. And USC will get nailed for not providing the necessary protocols to ensure that this couldn't have happened without them eventually finding out. They don't have to know it was taking place, just that they SHOULD have known.

the punishment varies depending on should have known, to actively knew and covered up.

[SoonerBOI]

In accordance to NCAA bylaws, Bush's amateur status could be retroactively voided, prompting USC to forfeit games from the 2004 and 2005 seasons, including its latest national championship.
There is no NCAA "national championship", it's mythical. How can they forfeit something that is imaginary? USC is an imaginary champion, AWESOME!

[SoonerKnight]

They would probably forfeit the past games and if they tried to cover up what happen. They will lose T.V., Off Campus recruiting, Scholorships etc....
This would hurt their program as Carroll would probably leave after this season. I read a rumor ealier in the year that he was already looking to leave. He had mentioned it to his staff and one of the networks rumor boards ran it. I believe it was on ESPN's website not sure but that would hurt them the most because players there would bolt and recruits would bolt as well.

[NYC Poke]

From what I've read, USC maintained an environment where agents roamed freely at practices while promoting their athletes celebrity status. Real 1970s-80s-type stuff (yes, everybody was doing it back then, I'll be the first to admit). This is a situation ripe for abuse, and USC knew or should have known what was going on.

I have no particular ax to grind with USC, but the NCAA needs to come down hard on them. I think most programs work really hard to keep things like this under control, and yet the NCAA lowers the hammer when the responsible programs self-report relatively minor violations. USC tolerated an environment that is exactly of the sort that their rules are designed to prevent. They yank scholarships for things like a few extra phone calls to recruits or showing a player a jersey with his number on it, but they're rolling on this? It shocks the conscience.

And I guaranty that Reggie Bush wasn't the only one getting favors from agents. Not in that environment. He's just the only one we've heard about.

[Leroy Lizard]

the punishment varies depending on should have known, to actively knew and covered up.

Tell that to TCU. They found out about Kenneth Davis' illegal payments and turned themselves in. The NCAA rewarded them by raping them. They promptly went from an 8-4 team to a 3-8 team. If they had just kept quiet, the penalties could have hardly been more severe.

[Leroy Lizard]

As for whether or not OU should accept the trophy, I answer that by considering which decision ****es off the fans of other teams more, especially Texas' and USC's. I say we accept the trophy, hold parades complete with marching bands, bring back the players and shower them with confetti, and even turn over some cars and burn them a la the World Series. I would then suggest we start about 40 threads in this forum questioning whether the Sooners that year were the best team ever, and whether we could beat some pro teams. Then we should invade the USC fans and chide them for losing the Orange Bowl. We can even post YouTube videos showing all the good Sooner plays from the Orange Bowl (all six of them), complete with hip-hop music. Line up about 500 fans to post supportive comments to the video. Take some pictures with Stoops holding the crystal ball high over his head and getting the Gatorade shower. Call in to radio shows with the usual "Yaaaah Baby! National Champions, baby! Boomer! Sooner!" Then hang up.

The fans of our rivals wouldn't even know what to think or how to react. We should have all this planned and ready to roll.

[SoonerKnight]

As for whether or not OU should accept the trophy, I answer that by considering which decision ****es off the fans of other teams more, especially Texas' and USC's. I say we accept the trophy, hold parades complete with marching bands, bring back the players and shower them with confetti, and even turn over some cars and burn them a la the World Series. I would then suggest we start about 40 threads in this forum questioning whether the Sooners that year were the best team ever, and whether we could beat some pro teams. Then we should invade the USC fans and chide them for losing the Orange Bowl. We can even post YouTube videos showing all the good Sooner plays from the Orange Bowl (all six of them), complete with hip-hop music. Line up about 500 fans to post supportive comments to the video. Take some pictures with Stoops holding the crystal ball high over his head and getting the Gatorade shower. Call in to radio shows with the usual "Yaaaah Baby! National Champions, baby! Boomer! Sooner!" Then hang up.

The fans of our rivals wouldn't even know what to think or how to react. We should have all this planned and ready to roll.


Was there really 6 good plays in that game? I can not remember I was in shock and when I wasn't drinking trying to mask the pain :D I was cursing up a storm. Six plays huh?

[Leroy Lizard]

Well, if you consider the two plays where USC jumped off sides as good plays, then yeah, six plays.