Writer's Strike

[Veritas]

So what's up with this. Is it just another case of a unions striking when they're already grossly overcompensated?

My knee-jerk reaction to strike is usually Reaganistic, i.e, "**** 'em, fire them all."

Anybody got any industry knowledge here? LAS?

[proud gonzo]

you think writers are already grossly overcompensated? yeah right.

[Scott D]

heh, writers get paid for ****..which is why most of them are working on multiple projects.

[Veritas]

you think writers are already grossly overcompensated? yeah right.
I don't know...haven't the slightest idea...that's why I'm asking. :)

[Scott D]

It's the Writers Guild, not the Screen Actors Guild :)

The sticking point is that writers want some form of compensation for their work from resales of it, the producers/studios right now get every share of it that doesn't go to the actors. It's more an argument of intellectual property I guess.

[mdklatt]

heh, writers get paid for ****

Most of the stuff they turn out is worth every penny. :D

[Veritas]

It's the Writers Guild, not the Screen Actors Guild :)

The sticking point is that writers want some form of compensation for their work from resales of it, the producers/studios right now get every share of it that doesn't go to the actors. It's more an argument of intellectual property I guess.
So are they going to also absorb financial losses when a show tanks?

I used to write code that went into software upon which lots of money was made. I didn't get a revenue cut. Well, I do now, because I'm an owner, but that's a whole other deal.

Construction workers build stadiums and don't get a cut of ticket sales.

Ahmmm...graphic artist build catalogs upon which lots of sales are predicated. They don't see a cut.

[soonerbrat]

I think the biggest thing they want is a piece of the profit from sales of DVD's...it's my understanding they dont' get any part of that

[Scott D]

Well I don't know the particulars but it seems to me that their requests..or demands to the anti-union crowd don't seem to be all that much. I really don't see how a percentage from dvd sales really hurts anyone.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Well, considering I was on the picket line yesterday and will be on it again today...

Here's the deal (and it's a very complex one, so I'll sum up):

Current contracts cover writing for television and writing for movies, but there is a thing called "New Media" which includes DVD's, Internet Programming, Cell Phone Media, etc. Now to US (normal people) none of this is really "new", but to the "Industry", from a business standpoint, it's all new.

So there isn't any coverage or protection for the unions when a WGA member gets hired to work on something for the Internet or for DVD's (special features, etc)

Also you've got people like SONY Studios who came out and claimed RECORD profits on old TV shows being aired, with commercials and with commercial ads, on their Internet sites. NONE of that money was going back to the writers who created the media. So when the writer's said, "Hey, where's our cut?" SONY tried to spin around and say, "UH...what cut?! What money?! We're broke! We're not making ANYTHING! :D:D:D:D"

So there's a lot of money that the huge mega corporations are making off of our work that should be going to us that isn't.

That's a WAAAYYY oversimplification of the problem.

Oh...and "go Reagan and say Fire 'em?" Heh...if you think the stuff on TV is crap right now...wait until the NON-WGA members start writing episodes! The writers out here control all the content being made. They are essential to the whole creative process. Everything starts and ends with them, from the genesis of an idea for something to the final re-write on set during shooting.

That's why you're not seeing any Jon Stewart, Jay Leno, etc...and soon you won't be seeing any of the scripted tv shows either.

This strike is going to cost the city of LA AT LEAST a billion dollars. We're all pulling our trousers up for the long haul.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Oh...and we're probably pulling DVDs off the table and not fighting for those anymore since they'll be gone in 5 years anyway.

Everything is about to go digital, ala the music industry.

We're fighting for our cut of THAT.

[Mjcpr]

How much do those guys that wrote Cavemen get?

[Veritas]

Thanks LAS. Makes perfect sense.

So to continue to oversimplify, the cut that gets paid on media type A isn't being paid on media type B, even though the content is the same. They're (you're) striking to be compensated regardless of media type.

Is that sorta kinda right?

[JohnnyMack]

Since I watch sports, news, the History Channel & Discovery I don't really care what happens in this.

But I guess it does sound like the man is trying to keep his foot on the throat of the downtrodden in this one.

[Sooner_Havok]

I can get behind them on this one. Last time they reworked their contracts, they got x amount of video sales, which was good back in 1988. Well, now the mode of distribution has changed, and the writers are kind of getting screwed. Shows and movies sold by online download sites, where not included back in 88' so the studios get to pocket the money they make from places like iTunes and other online distribution without giving the writers a cut.

They are just trying to nip this thing out before it gets to bad. As online distribution increases, one would imagine video sales would drop, thus meaning the studios get more of the cut and the writers get less.

[Frozen Sooner]

Here's a good explanation from Brian K. Vaughn, who writes for Lost. He's also the writer behind comics Y: The Last Man and Ex Machina.

***Why is the WGA striking?

Because writers believe we deserve a fair share of the revenue generated by the stuff we helped to create, crazy as that sounds.

There’s an excellent summary of what I consider to be our very reasonable demands at this blog, which has been a consistently dependable source of good information about the strike: http://www.unitedhollywood.com/

But basically, writers are looking to negotiate modest residuals and protections for use of our TV shows and movies on the internet, where most of us will likely be getting the majority of our entertainment from in the not-too-distant future.

We’re are also asking for a share of about 8 cents--that’s eight stinkin’ pennies--for every DVD of our work sold, as opposed to the criminally insane 4 cents we receive today.

I read that Warren Ellis was concerned about possibly being barred from writing for animation (which is largely outside the jurisdiction of the WGA) during the strike, and while I think his concerns were absolutely valid (the strike rules have since been amended), I believe those initial guidelines were born out of the fact that this negotiation is also about fighting to extend the same health benefits, pension, and other protections that writers like I enjoy to our equally important colleagues in animation (as well as those in “reality” television, which employs more writers than you can imagine).

I got to hear firsthand how hard the Writers Guild worked to negotiate a fair deal with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers, but after more than three months of talks, the AMPTP still hasn’t come close to even meeting the WGA halfway on its most important proposals.

It sucks.

***Do you support the strike?

Yeah, a hundred percent.

A few months ago, I was thrilled to start my second season as a writer and now a co-producer over at LOST, and have been unbelievably fortunate enough to help write a few scripts for what I think could end up being the show’s best season.

And much as it breaks my heart for my colleagues and I to have to walk away from a job we love, we all think it’s vitally important to the future of our industry.

At least in the short term, my friends and I stand to lose a great deal both creatively and financially in this strike, but every working writer I’ve ever met feels a responsibility to help protect those writers less fortunate than us, as well as the next generation of creators to follow in our footsteps.

These last few weeks have been a real crash-course in unionization for me, and I’ve come away a bigger supporter than ever.

When we first started talking about a strike, I figured the Teamsters (our faithful truck drivers, location managers, etc.) would hate us “spoiled, overpaid typists” if we threatened their livelihoods with a work stoppage. But instead, they’ve been incredibly supportive of us at every turn, with many vowing not to cross our picket lines.

I know I sound like a second-rate Norma Rae (or Chief Tyrol from Battlestar for you young hipsters out there), but seeing all kinds of laborers, regardless of our different crafts, treat each other like brothers and sisters during the negotiations with the powerful corporations that employ so many of us has been one of the best experiences of my selling-out time here in Los Angeles.

***What does this mean for your comics work?

Comics are not covered by the WGA.

I’m lucky that my phone started ringing from editors at Marvel and DC as soon as the threat of the strike materialized, and while I’ve gotten some cool offers to work on existing books, I think I’m going to take however long the strike lasts (which could be anywhere between a day and forever) to concentrate on making Ex Machina kick as much *** as possible as we start to head into that series’ final year, and to continue to develop my next big creator-owned projects now that I’ve finished all my scripts for Y: The Last Man, Runaways, Buffy, The Escapists, Doctor Strange, and the upcoming Logan mini with Eduardo Risso. (Sorry, gratuitous plugging isn’t prohibited by the WGA during the strike.)

But this isn’t a vacation. I’ll be walking the picket line every single day, so if you’re visiting sunny Burbank, drive past and honk your support for the pasty bald kid, won’t you?

***Does this mean there’s going to be a flood of Hollywood writers coming into comics?

Maybe? I know a few creators--and a lot of readers--are sometimes annoyed by carpet-bagging movie/television writers swooping into comics to steal “their” jobs, but film/TV writers have been enormously generous about letting me into their world, and I think we should return the favor. Art is not a competition, and there’s always room for talented creators.

That said, no one wants these screenwriters to just try to shoehorn their unsold pitches and scripts into comic form. But trust me, the many writers out here who truly love comics already know that it’s a totally unique medium, one that deserves unique stories.

I guess I’d be a hypocrite to completely frown on translating existing movies/shows into comics (I had an awesome time doing that with Buffy) or translating existing comics into movies/shows (happily done it with Y and Ex Machina), but I think what each medium really needs is NEW ideas specifically created to play to the strengths of that particular artform.

***What does this mean for your comic-book movies?

Like I said, I’ve written adaptations of both Y: The Last Man and Ex Machina for New Line, and while they could conceivably move either or both of those drafts of mine into production during the strike (without any rewrites or other contributions from me), that seems pretty unlikely for lots of different reasons. As with most comic-to-screen adaptations currently “in development,” I imagine they’ll stay in limbo as long as the strike lasts.

I was also about to begin work on a particularly exciting new comic-to-screen adaptation that I can’t really talk about, and while I’m hopeful the gig will still be waiting for me if/when the strike ends, who knows? That’s one of the many risks that comes with this very necessary strike.

***Will comic writers ever unionize?

I certainly hope so, though I’m sure that makes many of my beloved employers cringe.

I talked about this when Whedon interviewed me over at CBR a few months back, but I think it’s worth repeating here…

When I used the great Cloak and Dagger in Runaways, Bill Mantlo, the man who helped create them, didn’t get anything, to the best of my knowledge. Not even a credit. And I’m not blaming my friends at Marvel (or DC, for that matter), all of whom are good people who’ve always been beyond fair with me. It’s just indicative of the broken system, one that I’m very much a part of.

For the record, Bill Mantlo was struck by a hit-and-run driver a few years ago, and now requires expensive daily care that’s way beyond what modest means he was left with after dedicating much of his life to our industry. And while things like The Hero Initiative, an absolutely worthwhile cause that I totally support, exist to help comic creators in financial need, THOSE CREATORS SHOULD NOT BE IN FINANCIAL NEED.

I know the Writers Guild of America isn’t a perfect union, but I was afforded more benefits and protections in my first few months with the WGA as a work-for-hire screenwriter than I was ever given in a decade of working in comics. And again, I’ve been treated pretty honorably throughout my career, and have made more money than I ever deserved doing this “job,” but that doesn’t mean that I can’t still be concerned about the generations of writers and artists before and after me.

Anyway, I know that smarter people than I have tried and failed to unionize in the past, so for now, we’ll have to help creators like Bill Mantlo by donating directly to organizations like The Mantlo Project, or to the aforementioned Hero Initiative. But it would be nice to see the day when they weren’t necessary:

http://www.sleepinggiantcreations.co...ntlo-main.html

http://www.heroinitiative.org/

***I’m not in the WGA, but I support the cause. What can I do to help?

Thanks for asking! At this stage, I suppose the best thing you can do is to think critically about everything you’re going to hear regarding the strike, especially because so many of the news outlets we all rely on are owned and controlled by the very people against whom we writers are striking.

None of us wanted this strike, and we all hope it’ll be over before any of you loyal viewers even notice we were gone… but in the very likely scenario that this is going to be a long, tough slog, I’ll try to check back in with more thoughts.

For now, wish us luck!

[OUDoc]

I still buy CD's.

[Frozen Sooner]

I still buy CD's.

The abandonment of physical media has been grossly overexaggerated. Sure, it's something that may happen in the future, but there's nowhere near the bandwidth out there needed to deliver the same quality you can get from physical media, and there likely won't be for another decade.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Does we has ta quit postin' in support of our comrades?

Wouldn' wanna be 'cused a bein' a scab er nuthin'....

[1stTimeCaller]

If $.04 per DVD sold is criminally insane, why was that the number they agreed to when they wrote their contracts?

Was it criminally insane then? Why is it now?

[mdklatt]

Since I watch sports, news, the History Channel & Discovery I don't really care what happens in this.


Uh, shows on Discovery and the History Channel have writers, too.

[JohnnyMack]

Pfftt....like I couldn't tell what was going on without them.

You think I need someone to tell me that it's cold on the deck of that crab boat?

And a lot of it is narration, that's not teh same thing.

[mdklatt]

And a lot of it is narration, that's not teh same thing.


Do you think Mike Rowe is sitting there in the studio watching the edited footage and making stuff up as he goes along? Probably not. Those channels are pretty heavy with reruns already so you won't notice the strike as much, but it will effect their new programming.

[1stTimeCaller]

who is Mike Rowe? Is he the dirty jobs guy?

[Mjcpr]

Isn't he one of our mods?

[StoopTroup]

I think he does commercials.

[mdklatt]

who is Mike Rowe? Is he the dirty jobs guy?

Yes, and I think he's also the narrator for Deadliest Catch.

[JohnnyMack]

Yeah, what I'm sayin' (rather poorly) is that I don't watch one single series on TV. I watch sports, news and the stuff on THC & TDC. As seldom as I watch those channels, there's a good chance the writers will be back at work long before I ever notice they were missing.

[Scott D]

If $.04 per DVD sold is criminally insane, why was that the number they agreed to when they wrote their contracts?

Was it criminally insane then? Why is it now?

probably more the fact that when they made the previous agreement in 1988 the market for dvd's is more akin to the market for online media is now. The big market was vhs, so the $.04 per dvd was based upon it being a fledgling market. In the intervening 19 years it's safe to say that the increase in dvd sales far outweighs a doubling of the coin per sale that writers get now. Especially since the VHS market has basically bottomed out.

[1stTimeCaller]

OK, so the four cents is a fair price but now that there are a lot of DVDs sold they want more?

[Scott D]

OK, so the four cents is a fair price but now that there are a lot of DVDs sold they want more?

Well I think it's twofold, but a writer would answer it better. I think it's mostly the dvd market taking over what the vhs market was, the change in how much per dvd reflects that. In honesty, that situation is probably a push at best...it's the online market that seems to be the major sticking point to the entire matter.

[1stTimeCaller]

I don't think any of you know what you're talking about.

[Veritas]

Well I think it's twofold, but a writer would answer it better. I think it's mostly the dvd market taking over what the vhs market was, the change in how much per dvd reflects that. In honesty, that situation is probably a push at best...it's the online market that seems to be the major sticking point to the entire matter.
The online market is sorta a sicking point for the whole industry, though, isn't it? Have they figured out how to monetize online distribution? Obviously they have advertisements and such on programs that are available online but the ad revenue that, say, Nissan pays for six thirty second spots can't be nearly as profitable as several companies paying for six thirty second spots at six different points of a broadcast.

What I don't know about TV/movies, etc would fill a fricken warehouse (obviously).

[Ike]

The abandonment of physical media has been grossly overexaggerated. Sure, it's something that may happen in the future, but there's nowhere near the bandwidth out there needed to deliver the same quality you can get from physical media, and there likely won't be for another decade.
Its a lot closer if you live in Japan or South Korea. They have bandwidth out the wazoo compared to what we have here.

[JohnnyMack]

I don't think any of you know what you're talking about.

In.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Thanks LAS. Makes perfect sense.

So to continue to oversimplify, the cut that gets paid on media type A isn't being paid on media type B, even though the content is the same. They're (you're) striking to be compensated regardless of media type.

Is that sorta kinda right?

Yeah, kinda sorta. Mike Rich's post, while long and throrough, really explains everything fully.


Since I watch sports, news, the History Channel & Discovery I don't really care what happens in this.

But I guess it does sound like the man is trying to keep his foot on the throat of the downtrodden in this one.
Do you actually think that the History Channel and Discovery don't have writers? Or even SportsCenter, etc?

[Ike]

Yeah, kinda sorta. Mike Rich's post, while long and throrough, really explains everything fully.


Do you actually think that the History Channel and Discovery don't have writers? Or even SportsCenter, etc?
Sportscenter can afford to go into reruns for everything but the weekends right now. Nobody will notice.

[JohnnyMack]

Do you actually think that the History Channel and Discovery don't have writers? Or even SportsCenter, etc?

Yeah I added an amendment to my post. I'm not so tied in TV that I really give a ****.

SportsCenter sucks. I don't watch it. But do you think they'll just turn the lights off in Bristol and not cover sports? :rolleyes:

[CatHunter]

Well, considering I was on the picket line yesterday and will be on it again today...



I just made one of those Pfft sounds that made a little boogie fly out of my nose.:rolleyes:

[mdklatt]

SportsCenter sucks. I don't watch it. But do you think they'll just turn the lights off in Bristol and not cover sports? :rolleyes:

IF the "talent" writes their own copy, I don't think the strike would effect them.

[MamaMia]

I'll bet the signs they're holding up outside the studio are really cool. :D

[JohnnyMack]

IF the "talent" writes their own copy, I don't think the strike would effect them.

You're stretching by calling anything they have left talent. You done good by using the quotaton marks. :D

[Veritas]

Do writers get paid a salary or is all of their compensation based on these percentages?

[Frozen Sooner]

The writers dropped the DVD sales percentages in a last-ditch attempt to avoid a strike, by the way. The DVD sales just aren't that huge of a deal (though I'm sure they'd like them.) The big issue, as LAS stated, is future media.

Veritas, I'm not sure what the actual compensation structure is for writers and I'm sure it varies from person to person and studio to studio. I believe that freelance writers get paid a set fee plus residuals while staff writers get a salary plus residuals.

[LosAngelesSooner]

The abandonment of physical media has been grossly overexaggerated. Sure, it's something that may happen in the future, but there's nowhere near the bandwidth out there needed to deliver the same quality you can get from physical media, and there likely won't be for another decade.

I hate to disagree with you there, but you're wrong, and the numbers support me. Every time I check the sales figures on digital media vs. physical media I see the shift occuring and so does everyone in the industry. The music industry has accepted this as a simple truth which is unavoidable and, honestly, their present reality.

The movie industry is now seeing that it is also their future, but they have just a little time before it's a reality as well.

We're looking at a 5 year window before you've got a 10 terabyte hd in your entertainment center holding all of your DVDs and the equivilent of ITunes for movies hooked straight up to your TV.

[LosAngelesSooner]

If $.04 per DVD sold is criminally insane, why was that the number they agreed to when they wrote their contracts?

Was it criminally insane then? Why is it now?
That was a concession made during the 2001 threat of a writer's strike when we were negotiating for benefits and health care, etc., etc.....

[1stTimeCaller]

will the restaurants shut down or can the writers still wait tables during the strike?

[Mjcpr]

will the restaurants shut down or can the writers still wait tables during the strike?

They can still do it but you'll have to write your own orders down as I understand it.

You're on the hook for writing your own name with a crayon at those places with the butcher paper tablecloths as well.

[Frozen Sooner]

I hate to disagree with you there, but you're wrong, and the numbers support me. Every time I check the sales figures on digital media vs. physical media I see the shift occuring and so does everyone in the industry. The music industry has accepted this as a simple truth which is unavoidable and, honestly, their present reality.

The movie industry is now seeing that it is also their future, but they have just a little time before it's a reality as well.

We're looking at a 5 year window before you've got a 10 terabyte hd in your entertainment center holding all of your DVDs and the equivilent of ITunes for movies hooked straight up to your TV.

And I hate to disagree with you, but you're flat-out overestimating the ability of the internet as currently configured in the US to deliver media content on demand at 1080p with 5.1 lossless audio at a bitrate high enough to look and sound anywhere near as good as it would on BD or HD DVD. You're also overestimating the studio's willingness to go to a non-physical media based paradigm where they'll allow you to store the content on a hard drive. With AACS and BD+ as well as HDCP, the stuidos have already said that there's no way in hell they're going to let people rip high-def content to a hard drive without a fight.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I don't think any of you know what you're talking about.
Here:


Contract 2007 Negotiations Statement

LOS ANGELES -- The WGA Negotiating Committee, on behalf of the Writers of Guild of America, West (WGAW) and the Writers Guild of America, East (WGAE), has issued the following statement regarding Contract 2007 negotiations: Early today, the WGA completely withdrew its DVD proposal, which the Companies said was a stumbling block. Yet, the Companies still insisted on the following:

• No jurisdiction for most of new media writing.
• No economic proposal for the part of new media writing where they do propose to give coverage.
• Internet downloads at the DVD rate.
• No residual for streaming video of theatrical product.
• A "promotional" proposal that allows them to reuse even complete movies or TV shows on any platform with no residual. This proposal alone destroys residuals.
• A "window” of free reuse on the Internet that makes a mockery of any residual. The AMPTP made no response to any of the other proposals that the WGA has made since July. The AMPTP proposed that today's meeting be "off the record,” meaning no press statements, but they have reneged on that.
For more information about the Writers Guild of America, West, please visit www.wga.org. For more information about the Writers Guild of America, East, please visit: www.wgaeast.org.
The Writers Guild of America, West (WGAW) and the Writers Guild of America, East (WGAE) represent writers in the motion picture, broadcast, cable, and new media industries in both entertainment and news. The unions conduct numerous programs, seminars, and events throughout the world on issues of interest to, and on behalf of, writers.




Like I said, DVDs are off the table.

[LosAngelesSooner]

IF the "talent" writes their own copy, I don't think the strike would effect them.
It does when the "talent" is also in the guild.

There are plenty of writer/actors in shows. Tina Fay, anyone?

[Frozen Sooner]

To clarify, LAS:

I think that media streaming is coming, and will probably have wide adoption in the next 5 years or so. However, I don't think that physical media will go away for over a decade due to the current (and probably near-future) limitation of downloadable media.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'll bet the signs they're holding up outside the studio are really cool. :D Some are kinda wordy.

;)

[1stTimeCaller]

pure silliness

[mdklatt]

It does when the "talent" is also in the guild.

There are plenty of writer/actors in shows. Tina Fay, anyone?

I was talking about Sports Center-type shows.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Do writers get paid a salary or is all of their compensation based on these percentages?
Depends.

Man, it's REALLY complex and there are a lot of variables.

Okay, one show I worked on gave me a salary (WGA negotiated) and then bought my royalties out when it went into syndication.

Another show paid me by the episode.

Screenplays are different. You get paid for a treatment. Then for a first draft. Then for all revisions. Then for a final polish. Then, if you're on set, you get paid for rewrites. All of these are negotiated and all are through the WGA. Many times you don't get to do all of that stuff, as they bring in different writers for different stages in the process (punch ups, dialogue polishing, action tweakers, etc.) But all of this can take from three months to five/ten years (depending on the project), so writers are constantly working on MANY different projects and, since they aren't usually on salary, these contracts are vital to their security and income.

Copy Writing (commercials, ads, promos, etc) are usually negotiated on a job by job basis and have little to no residuals.

Residuals are the lifeblood of a TV writer.

There is so much more...but I hope this helps.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I was talking about Sports Center-type shows.
So was I. I was just using a more recognisable name.

Stuart Scott and those guys write most of their own copy (along with a group of writers). That's how MOST news groups work. Whether they are WGA or not is a different issue, but I'd guess that they are.

[Frozen Sooner]

Heh. LAS, have you heard Patton Oswalt's rant about doing punch-up work on animation?

"Whackity-schmackity-doooooo"

[LosAngelesSooner]

will the restaurants shut down or can the writers still wait tables during the strike?
Those are actors. Or writers who AREN'T in the guild.

And you may joke, but the restaurants here WILL be affected heavily as the strike goes on. This city is poised to lose a billion plus. It'll affect all types of industry.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yeah, I was watching a dude who owns a craft services business saying that he's probably going to end up closing down.

[LosAngelesSooner]

And I hate to disagree with you, but you're flat-out overestimating the ability of the internet as currently configured in the US to deliver media content on demand at 1080p with 5.1 lossless audio at a bitrate high enough to look and sound anywhere near as good as it would on BD or HD DVD. You're also overestimating the studio's willingness to go to a non-physical media based paradigm where they'll allow you to store the content on a hard drive. With AACS and BD+ as well as HDCP, the stuidos have already said that there's no way in hell they're going to let people rip high-def content to a hard drive without a fight.
And yet it's already happening despite their threats.

And downloading the media in that quality is not only possible, it's being done all over the internet as we speak.

I'm not overestimating, I'm reporting what is actually going on right now. It'll just be a lot more widespread and commonplace in the near future.

[LosAngelesSooner]

To clarify, LAS:

I think that media streaming is coming, and will probably have wide adoption in the next 5 years or so. However, I don't think that physical media will go away for over a decade due to the current (and probably near-future) limitation of downloadable media.
Sorry, didn't see this before I replied with my last post.

You and I are actually in agreement, then. We're saying the same thing.

[1stTimeCaller]

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[LosAngelesSooner]

This might give you an idea of what we're up against in this strike.



Some of us have been screwed for a while now, and not in the pleasant sense. Below is an email post from Micah Wright, posted on the WriterAction (WGA-only board). I requested and have his written permission to spread it like the plague. ~ Tina

(FYI, to set the scene, the tone of Micah’s intro is in response to another WA poster unhappy with our leadership).

Well this is ONE angry Horad that’s confused about your stance. The AMPTP clearly never intends to pay us one single cent for internet delivery. The music business model clearly indicates that internet delivery for most, if not all content is the future. What then were we supposed to do when faced with rollbacks and refusals to bargain in good faith? Pray? Or just swallow the bull**** they were trying to shove down our throats, and forget about not only what we’re making, but also what every person who ever follows us into this union will ever make?

People like you keep bitching about the DVD negotiating point, and yeah, you’re right: DVD was lost 20 years ago, but there’s no magic rule which says we can’t reopen that topic. More importantly, though, DVD didn’t take off for almost a decade after the ‘88 strike… the Internet is here NOW, and it’s here FOREVER, and if we give in and allow them to pay us ZERO on Internet delivery, we can just kiss the idea of ever getting paid residuals goodbye forever.
It’s not self-righteousness which is driving this negotiation… it’s quite simply the greed of the AMPTP, which clearly sees this as the year in which they intend to break the WGA on the rack once and for all. But you don’t see that… you seem unable to get it through your head that the AMPTP doesn’t want to ever pay us anything. If you think these people are so reasonable and that they deal in good faith, then try talking to writers who work in Animation and Reality… THAT is the future that the AMPTP has in store for EVERY WRITER IN THE WGA. Because if they don’t have to pay residuals to the woman who wrote The Lion King, then why should they ever have to pay one to YOU? Or anyone else?

Oh, and before you give me some ****ing sob story about the disastrous strike of 1988, let me bring you up to date with a more RECENT story: mine.
I came to this guild having had a “successful” career writing Animation for $1400/week for five years. During that time, I wrote on several of Nickelodeon’s highest-rated shows. My writing partner wrote and directed 1/4 of the episodes of “SpongeBob SquarePants” and I was responsible for 1/5 of the episodes of “The Angry Beavers.” The current value that those shows have generated for Viacom? $12 Billion dollars. My writing partner topped out at $2100/week. In the year 2001, tired of not receiving residuals for my endlessly- repeating work (even though the actors and composers for my episodes do), I joined with 28 other writers and we signed our WGA cards.

So, Nickelodeon quickly filed suit against our petition for an election, and set about trying to ferret out who the “ringleaders” were. In the meantime, they canceled the show that I had created 4 episodes into an order of 26. Then they fired the 3 writers who’d been working on my show. Then they fired 20 more of my fellow writers and shut down three more shows, kicking almost their entire primetime lineup for 2002 to the curb, and laying off 250 artists.
Then, once the WGA’s petition for election was tied up in court over our illegal firings, Nickelodeon called in the IATSE Local 839 “Cartoonists Guild” — a racket union which exists only the screw the WGA and its own members — and they signed a deal which forever locks the WGA out of Nickelodeon, even though we were there first. Neato!

Then Nickelodeon’s brass decided —out of thin ****ing air— that myself and two other writers had been “the ringleaders” of this organizing effort, so they called around to Warner Bros. Animation, the Cartoon Network, Disney Animation, and Fox Kids, effectively blacklisting the three of us out of animation permanently.

And why did Nickelodeon do this? Why were they so eager to decimate their own 2002 schedule, fire 24 writers, break multiple federal labor laws, sign a union deal, and to even bring back the ****ing blacklist? They did all of that to prevent us from getting the same whopping $5 residual that the actors & composers of our shows get.

For five lousy ****ing bucks, they destroyed three people’s careers and put 250 artists out of work and ****ed up their own channel for a year.
Ahh, but my episodes run about 400 times a year worldwide, though, so obviously Sumner Redstone (Salary in 2001: $65 million dollars) and Tom Freston (2001 salary: $55 million) were right to do what they did… myself and those other 23 writers might have broken the bank, what with each of us going to cost them another TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS each! OH NO! That… that’s… FORTY EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS!
A YEAR!

So don’t come crying to those of us who have EXPERIENCED what the AMPTP plans for all of the rest of you, that people who are deciding to stand up to bully-boy tactics like that are the crazy bunch of “horads” lustily marching “throught” the streets searching for blood. The AMPTP are the barbarians sacking Rome in this scenario.

The AMPTP and their glittering-eyed weasel lawyers are a bunch of lying, blacklisting, law-breaking scumbags, and the fact that they haven’t budged off of ANY of their proposals in the last three months proves that what they have in store for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU is exactly what they did to us at Nickelodeon, and what they can do any day of the week in daytime animation. Or reality.

Strike or no strike. That’s their plan: to winnow down your membership, to snip away at your MBA, to chew away at your health & pension plans until there’s just nothing left of the WGA. Why? Because they’ve had a good strong drink of how much money they make off of animation when they don’t have to cut the creators in for any of the cash, and now they want to extend that free ride to all of live action as well. THAT is why they have pushed for this strike at every step, with their insulting press releases, with their refusals to negotiate, etc. — because they’re HOPING we go on strike, and that enough cowards and Quislings come crawling out of the woodwork after six weeks that they can force us to accept the same deal that Reality TV show writers have.
If you doubt me, go read their contract proposals again… there’s not ONE of them which isn’t an insult and a deal-breaking non-starter.

So can we PLEASE stop hearing about how it’s the current WGA management which is the ****ing problem here? Because, frankly, that canard is getting a little stale.

Or perhaps you prefer presidents like the President of the Guild back in 2001 who just threw up her hands when we were fired and blacklisted out of our careers and said, and I quote, “oh well, it was a good try”?

[Frozen Sooner]

Real-time on-demand downloading of 1080p video with lossless 5.1 audio is happening right now? At bandwidth comparable to the 45mbps that BD uses?

Or are you saying that people are right now illegally downloading HD DVD and BD rips of content for future watching? THAT is happening, but the studios are violently opposed to it. Their business model may change in the future, but as for now the studios seem pretty committed to data encryption.

Edit: OK, never mind, we're in agreement.

Yeah, DVD-quality video is a fight that the studios know they've already lost and they're pretty much OK with it being downloaded for pay. HD content is another issue and they're trying to build more robust encryption into the standards so they don't lose that one as well.

[Blue]

Those are actors. Or writers who AREN'T in the guild.

And you may joke, but the restaurants here WILL be affected heavily as the strike goes on. This city is poised to lose a billion plus. It'll affect all types of industry.

A very sucky situation for you LAS, but YOU DO realize that us idgets in the Red states aren't going to have much compassion, right? ;)

I gots one question though. WHAT ABOUT LOST?!:eek:

[Mongo]

This isnt gonna affect the writing of pron is it? That would suck watching pron with a horrible plot line

[Frozen Sooner]

A very sucky situation for you LAS, but YOU DO realize that us idgets in the Red states aren't going to have much compassion, right? ;)

I gots one question though. WHAT ABOUT LOST?!:eek:

Lost is doomed. DOOMED!

Oh, yeah. I'm uber-****ed that it looks like the Scubs series finale is kaput and will never be written.

[handcrafted]

At this point, it must be understood that there are two sides to every story.

For every instance of employer violation of labor laws, there is an instance of union knee-breaking/mistreatment of their own members, illegal organizational efforts and "salting", and other such stuff.

Not excusing the studio's behavior in this case if the foregoing is accurate, but there are two sides. Trust me.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Real-time on-demand downloading of 1080p video with lossless 5.1 audio is happening right now? At bandwidth comparable to the 45mbps that BD uses?

Or are you saying that people are right now illegally downloading HD DVD and BD rips of content for future watching? THAT is happening, but the studios are violently opposed to it. Their business model may change in the future, but as for now the studios seem pretty committed to data encryption.

Edit: OK, never mind, we're in agreement.

Yeah, DVD-quality video is a fight that the studios know they've already lost and they're pretty much OK with it being downloaded for pay. HD content is another issue and they're trying to build more robust encryption into the standards so they don't lose that one as well.
Exactly.


A very sucky situation for you LAS, but YOU DO realize that us idgets in the Red states aren't going to have much compassion, right? ;)

I gots one question though. WHAT ABOUT LOST?!:eek:
Well, you should have compassion. Us Hollywood Elite Liberals (or in my case, blue collar, hard working Hollywood middle class Republican ;) ) always come out and help the peeps in the "red states" when tornados hit or rivers flood. :)

As for Lost, I was hanging out with three of the cast members and one of the writers last night having a drink...and they are MEGA bummed. It's gonna affect this season fo sho.

[mdklatt]

Lost is doomed. DOOMED!

Oh, yeah. I'm uber-****ed that it looks like the Scubs series finale is kaput and will never be written.

I bet they'll continue the season where they left off once the strike is over.

[handcrafted]

This isnt gonna affect the writing of pron is it? That would suck watching pron with a horrible plot line

You're probably kidding, but it's worth noting that the pr0n industry doesn't need to be unionized, seeing as how they're already run by the Cosa Nostra and other such "families", so the said pr0n studio would just be negotiating with itself.

[Frozen Sooner]

I bet they'll continue the season where they left off once the strike is over.

David Lawrence released a statement saying that he doesn't think it'll happen.

I think it has something to do with Scrubs being a Buena Vista property and NBC being owned by Universal or something. Or that the actor's contracts don't last long enough. Hell, I don't know. All I know is that the producer of the show is saying that it's probably not going to happen now.

Maybe he's just trying to get us riled up at the writers.

[LosAngelesSooner]

At this point, it must be understood that there are two sides to every story.

For every instance of employer violation of labor laws, there is an instance of union knee-breaking/mistreatment of their own members, illegal organizational efforts and "salting", and other such stuff.

Not excusing the studio's behavior in this case if the foregoing is accurate, but there are two sides. Trust me.
You're right. Those execs at AOL Time Warner, Sony Viacom, Fox, GE / Paramount....they're starving. And they'd NEVER take advantage of people in an effort to make money.

Also the WGA, DGA and SAG are nowhere NEAR as organized or powerful as the teamsters and the other "great lakes area" unions.

Truth be told, they'll probably break us once we all start defaulting on our mortgages and car payments in 6-12 months.

They, on the other hand, won't miss a beat in their personal lives.

Don't kid yourselves...they've been ripping us off for a long time and will continue doing it if they possibly can.

[Blue]

Exactly.




As for Lost, I was hanging out with three of the cast members and one of the writers last night having a drink...and they are MEGA bummed. It's gonna affect this season fo sho.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!:(



was it Evangeline? cause that'd be super-cool.

[Ike]

Yeah, DVD-quality video is a fight that the studios know they've already lost and they're pretty much OK with it being downloaded for pay. HD content is another issue and they're trying to build more robust encryption into the standards so they don't lose that one as well.


That too is a losing battle. They can keep building more and more robust encryption until the cows come home, and it still wont keep a DVD-Jon from reverse engineering a software HD player to get the keys. They know this, which is why they love the DMCA so much.

[LosAngelesSooner]

...so the said pr0n studio would just be negotiating with itself.
I was negotiating with myself in the shower about an hour ago!!! HEY-OOO!!!! :D

[Frozen Sooner]

That too is a losing battle. They can keep building more and more robust encryption until the cows come home, and it still wont keep a DVD-Jon from reverse engineering a software HD player to get the keys. They know this, which is why they love the DMCA so much.

Yes/No.

AACS is built around an evolving keyset. Once a keyset is compromised, it will no longer by used for new movies.

The cracking of AACS through the buffer was a programming error by PowerDVD and is no longer a viable hack.

I'm not encryption expert, but that's what the AACS doods are saying.

[LosAngelesSooner]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!:(



was it Evangeline? cause that'd be super-cool.
Heh...naw. I wish.

Nope I was with Jeff Fahey (who is going to be in the new season and is a good friend of mine), Terry O'Quinn, Elizabeth Mitchell and Damon Lindelhoff.

Most of them just got in from Oahu yesterday.

[Scott D]

Yes/No.

AACS is built around an evolving keyset. Once a keyset is compromised, it will no longer by used for new movies.

The cracking of AACS through the buffer was a programming error by PowerDVD and is no longer a viable hack.

I'm not encryption expert, but that's what the AACS doods are saying.

you realize that Ike's telling you he has a new encryption breaker right?

[handcrafted]

You're right. Those execs at AOL Time Warner, Sony Viacom, Fox, GE / Paramount....they're starving. And they'd NEVER take advantage of people in an effort to make money.

Also the WGA, DGA and SAG are nowhere NEAR as organized or powerful as the teamsters and the other "great lakes area" unions.

Truth be told, they'll probably break us once we all start defaulting on our mortgages and car payments in 6-12 months.

They, on the other hand, won't miss a beat in their personal lives.

Don't kid yourselves...they've been ripping us off for a long time and will continue doing it if they possibly can.

Are you telling me you guys don't have a strike fund?

And BTW, none of what you said answered or contradicted anything in my post.

[Ike]

Yes/No.

AACS is built around an evolving keyset. Once a keyset is compromised, it will no longer by used for new movies.

The cracking of AACS through the buffer was a programming error by PowerDVD and is no longer a viable hack.

I'm not encryption expert, but that's what the AACS doods are saying.


a) programming errors will continue to happen. There is no shortage of bad programmers working for major (and minor) companies.

b) computer cycles are getting cheaper by the minute. I would not be terribly surprised if there were some brute force hacks that could crack not just one key, but many keys in a keyset in a relatively small amount of time....especially if someone decided to do such a thing through distributed computing.

In fact, more on the distributed computing line of thought, It wouldn't surprise me at all if someone tried the brute force approach through spreading some kind of malware to unsuspecting people that crunches through bits and pieces of the code during times when their computer is not in heavy use...

<edit> and in the case that the keys prove too difficult to be had through relatively simple hacks, I wouldn't be at all surprised to one day learn that the entire database of keys had been stolen through by way of a phishing scam that filched a password from a receptionist

[Veritas]

That too is a losing battle. They can keep building more and more robust encryption until the cows come home, and it still wont keep a DVD-Jon from reverse engineering a software HD player to get the keys. They know this, which is why they love the DMCA so much.
Yeah, I laugh my *** off whenever they talk about some new encryption that is so robust that it won't be broken. I can't think of anything they've put out that hasn't been cracked inside of 10 days or so.

There are just too many smart people out there and too few of them are employed by RIAA/MPAA goons.

LAS, got a question for you. What is the motivation for the studios or AMPTP to concede? What is they did go Reagan on you guys and said "**** you, we'll get other people to write the shows and they'll take what we give them." I guess where I'm going is that it's not like people are going to stop watching TV, even if it sucks. Where is the pain caused for the entities that you're up against?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Are you telling me you guys don't have a strike fund?

And BTW, none of what you said answered or contradicted anything in my post.
That's because what you said was nonsense.

[Frozen Sooner]

a) programming errors will continue to happen. There is no shortage of bad programmers working for major (and minor) companies.

b) computer cycles are getting cheaper by the minute. I would not be terribly surprised if there were some brute force hacks that could crack not just one key, but many keys in a keyset in a relatively small amount of time....especially if someone decided to do such a thing through distributed computing.

In fact, more on the distributed computing line of thought, It wouldn't surprise me at all if someone tried the brute force approach through spreading some kind of malware to unsuspecting people that crunches through bits and pieces of the code during times when their computer is not in heavy use...

Again, I'm no encryption expert, but AACS and BD+ both claim that this is not an issue. While individual discs have been cracked under both, there has not yet proven to be a reliable method of cracking any disc for either, so far as I know. And I do know that a lot of pretty darn good crackers have been trying.

[Veritas]

Yo just to clarify, the question I asked above is not intended to be antagonistic or anything like that. Genuine curiosity from someone who has little understanding of the industry.

[Frozen Sooner]

There are just too many smart people out there and too few of them are employed by RIAA/MPAA goons.


They're "goons" for trying to keep people from illegally copying their intellectual property?

[Ike]

Again, I'm no encryption expert, but AACS and BD+ both claim that this is not an issue. While individual discs have been cracked under both, there has not yet proven to be a reliable method of cracking any disc for either, so far as I know. And I do know that a lot of pretty darn good crackers have been trying.

(and see my edit to my last post)

[LosAngelesSooner]

Yeah, I laugh my *** off whenever they talk about some new encryption that is so robust that it won't be broken. I can't think of anything they've put out that hasn't been cracked inside of 10 days or so.

There are just too many smart people out there and too few of them are employed by RIAA/MPAA goons.

LAS, got a question for you. What is the motivation for the studios or AMPTP to concede? What is they did go Reagan on you guys and said "**** you, we'll get other people to write the shows and they'll take what we give them." I guess where I'm going is that it's not like people are going to stop watching TV, even if it sucks. Where is the pain caused for the entities that you're up against?
Well...they won't "go Reagan and fire us." If anything they'll just wait us out until we run through our strike fund and savings, etc, and HAVE to cross picket lines to work again so our families aren't homeless and our medical bills get paid.

The pain will be seeing their personal bonuses disappear, their promotions dry up, their stock prices drop, their 401ks suffer, their profits diminish, etc. We've gotta hope that we hit them in their pocket book hard enough that it makes them say, "Hey, they're being totally reasonable here and I'm tired of losing money. Let's just give them what they want."

It's not like we're all out here trying to get rich off this strike. We're not professional baseball players. ;)

[Frozen Sooner]

(and see my edit to my last post)

Heh, yeah, that could do it.

[Veritas]

They're "goons" for trying to keep people from illegally copying their intellectual property?
EDIT: I don't want to derail this thread (which I'm finding edumacational) so let's just say I have a very negative perception of the MPAA/RIAA and leave it at that.

[Mjcpr]

Didn't they just have a strike some years ago and all of the TV shows ended up delaying episodes until the strike was over and nobody really cared? Surely this nonsense won't carry on for more than a few weeks.

[handcrafted]

That's because what you said was nonsense.

Uh-huh. Typically, you don't have the slightest idea who you're talking to when you spout off. I've been involved in labor relations and human resources for the vast majority of my rather long professional career. And I know whereof I speak. I've experienced it.

So go have your strike, but don't claim that your union is lily white and pure in all this. Sometime when you decide to buck the union establishment, you're liable to find out what pain really is.

[KABOOKIE]

Uh-huh. Typically, you don't have the slightest idea who you're talking to when you spout off. I've been involved in labor relations and human resources for the vast majority of my rather long professional career. And I know whereof I speak. I've experienced it.

So go have your strike, but don't claim that your union is lily white and pure in all this. Sometime when you decide to buck the union establishment, you're liable to find out what pain really is.


I'll second this. We've had to delay negotiations because the union rep goons were upset there wasn't coffee provided (per contract of course). so, people aren't getting paid and work ain't getting done because butthole in a suit doesn't have his starbucks. :rolleyes:

[handcrafted]

I'll second this. We've had to delay negotiations because the union rep goons were upset there wasn't coffee provided (per contract of course). so, people aren't getting paid and work ain't getting done because butthole in a suit doesn't have his starbucks. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the buttholes in suits that show up at arbitration hearings to try to intimidate witnesses. Vandalism of employee property. Illegal interference with political campaigns. List, endless, etc. The union reps I have dealt with (and my father, he's in the same line of work as me, more or less) are some of the most unpleasant men you will ever run across.

[1stTimeCaller]

I've never been a fan of letting someone else negotiate for me. Especially when the person negotiating on my behalf doesn't have my best interests at heart.

[KABOOKIE]

You don't know what you're talking about.

[1stTimeCaller]

You're talking to the other people, right?

[handcrafted]

You're talking to the other people, right?

I think kabookie missed a quote somewhere, unless he's talking to all of us, in which case he can **** off dip ****. :D

[SCOUT]

I will preface this by saying that I am not very familiar with the specifics of this strike. I learned most of what I know from the evening news and this thread so that should make my depth of knowledge clear :)

I thought Veritas had an interesting take on this and nobody addressed it. Can someone more in the know than me help reinforce or debunk this analogy?


So are they going to also absorb financial losses when a show tanks?

I used to write code that went into software upon which lots of money was made. I didn't get a revenue cut. Well, I do now, because I'm an owner, but that's a whole other deal.

Construction workers build stadiums and don't get a cut of ticket sales.

Ahmmm...graphic artist build catalogs upon which lots of sales are predicated. They don't see a cut.

[KABOOKIE]

You're talking to me now?

[1stTimeCaller]

your mouf needs to close.

kplzthnx

[KABOOKIE]

Mmmmrr aaahkin mm meee oooow?

[1stTimeCaller]

speaking of strikes, I gotta go to work tomorrow.

[JohnnyMack]

I just turned my TV on and ESPN, Discovery and THC still have programming.

Once they don't I might possibly feign interest in this strike. Until then I'm going to spend my time negging 1tc & Kabookie into bolivian.

[Frozen Sooner]

I will preface this by saying that I am not very familiar with the specifics of this strike. I learned most of what I know from the evening news and this thread so that should make my depth of knowledge clear :)

I thought Veritas had an interesting take on this and nobody addressed it. Can someone more in the know than me help reinforce or debunk this analogy?

They do take a hit when the show tanks. They don't get any residuals off of it.

What they are paid for a treatment or a finished script or whatever takes into account that they will get residuals.

[KABOOKIE]

Until then I'm going to spend my time ****ing 1tc & Kabookie into bolivian.


:eek:

[usmc-sooner]

I just turned my TV on and ESPN, Discovery and THC still have programming.

Once they don't I might possibly feign interest in this strike. Until then I'm going to spend my time negging 1tc & Kabookie into bolivian.

why?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Uh-huh. Typically, you don't have the slightest idea who you're talking to when you spout off. I've been involved in labor relations and human resources for the vast majority of my rather long professional career. And I know whereof I speak. I've experienced it.

So go have your strike, but don't claim that your union is lily white and pure in all this. Sometime when you decide to buck the union establishment, you're liable to find out what pain really is. A. You don't have the slightest idea what you're spouting off about regarding this strike.

B. We're PLANNING ON finding out what pain really is during this strike. And it's not gonna be fun. Thanks.

C. Our union IS lily white and pure in this strike. And we've been being taken advantage of for a while now. Thanks.

D. Our union isn't like most labor unions you've dealt with (any, I'd guess)

E. Thanks. K. Bye.

Oh...and if I seem a little touchy on this subject it may be because I'm standing a good chance of losing my home, my other businesses and my livelyhood. I think you guys would feel the same way if you were in the same situation.

[Veritas]

Couple questions/statements, and seriously, LAS, these aren't remotely intended to be antagonistic.

1) Perhaps the refusal of the AMPTP to concede is a signal from a free market economy that the services of writers are not as valuable as they consider them to be.

2) The interests and motivations of the constituents of the WGA may be lily white and pure. But are the interests of the WGA union leaders also this altruistic? Having been involved with a few union interactions in my career, I can say that without exception there was a large delta between the motives of union leadership and the motives of union constituents.

[Mjcpr]

I would sell off my least profitable business first and use that to keep my home and continue my livelihood until such time as I need more money. Then I would sell off the second business. And so on...

[OUDoc]

Thanks, Bruce. But you'd keep the Van Gogh's?

[sooneron]

A big part of this is that the technology is changing so fast that it is difficult to gauge how much will be earned from particular outlets. I believe that this is why the AMPTP has been dragging it's feet. As far as itunes downloads and phone or vcast downloads are concerned, you can gauge them, so they may as well pay up.
As far as the streaming stuff, I would venture to guess that the powers that be are still trying to figure out what they are making off of advertising that is on web content. I doubt that it is much.

[sooneron]

As for the post about the craft services guy, there are far more people that are affected by this. For every shoot tv or film, you have about 10 Grips and electrics on every shoot day. That is a bigger hit to the economy. You also have camera and production personnel, which can be a LOT of people.

[handcrafted]

Oh...and if I seem a little touchy on this subject it may be because I'm standing a good chance of losing my home, my other businesses and my livelyhood. I think you guys would feel the same way if you were in the same situation.

I get it, really. You're not objective, I understand that. It's all about you.

Sooneron had some good points. How much do you and your union care about all the other people who are not members of your union, who are also out of work because of your actions and have no strike fund or anything else to fall back on? Ever think of them? Or is it all about your extra 4 cents or whatever?

A few other points:

1. If, as you say, the WGA has no leverage because the studios can withstand the economic loss, then the strike is pointless and your union leaders just screwed you by calling it.

2. Why not be happy that you have a job doing something you love? A lot of people don't, ya know. I have a couple of friends who dream of writing for TV/movies, but they can't break into the biz. If you don't want your job I'm sure they'd take it.

3. It occurs to me (as it did to Veritas) that the market is setting the value of your services. Why, pray tell, is that wrong? If the studios don't yet know the value of online or dowloaded media, then why is it that they should come up with a model for residuals when they have no data on which to base contractual terms? Are you suggesting that they should craft a CBA that screws them, just because you want them to redistribute their wealth instead of paying for the actual value of your work?

The problem with so many union leaders is that they are socialists at heart, and they do not operate from a) a sound economic model, or b) your best interests.

[Scott D]

As for the post about the craft services guy, there are far more people that are affected by this. For every shoot tv or film, you have about 10 Grips and electrics on every shoot day. That is a bigger hit to the economy. You also have camera and production personnel, which can be a LOT of people.

why no love for the caterers? ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't understand why employers tolerate strikes. Aren't there plenty of screen writers out there trying to get their break who would be more than happy to write during the strike?

I say fire their damned *** and hire someone who wants the job.

[usmc-sooner]

I think tv right now is at an all time low as far as being good or creative.

We need Seinfeld. Save us Jerry

[StoopTroup]

The problem with so many union leaders is that they are socialists at heart, and they do not operate from a) a sound economic model, or b) your best interests.

As Unionism continues to be a plague that many folks think is bad for America, I think many folks have lost faith in Corporate America and the Leadership in Washington.

The funny thing about history is this...it repeats itself.

If Corporations want to avoid their employees turning to Unions for representation...maybe they should treat them better instead of milking them for every penny.

Middleclass America isn't what it once was and many folks aren't as positive about their future. Give folks a career where they can afford to live and things like Unions sometimes die off.

It seems they are making a comeback in America to me and as you say...many of them don't have the best intentions, however, when backed against a wall sometimes a dawg will bite.

I'm not exactly thrilled about the folks that negotiate Union contracts in order to just keep the dues train rolling, but if you were to try to find a different Union to negoiate for you...the Corporation would prey on the workers as they fight for someone that will negoiate fairly and correct.

To think there is such an Organization anymore that would treat their Employees fairly, whether Union or mangement, is naive IMO.

[StoopTroup]

I don't understand why employers tolerate strikes. Aren't there plenty of screen writers out there trying to get their break who would be more than happy to write during the strike?

I say fire their damned *** and hire someone who wants the job.
Ever crossed a WGA picket line?

[handcrafted]

I don't understand why employers tolerate strikes. Aren't there plenty of screen writers out there trying to get their break who would be more than happy to write during the strike?

I say fire their damned *** and hire someone who wants the job.

Well, ya see, they can't edzachary fire them. There's this little law Congress passed about 80-odd years ago called the National Labor Relations Act. As long as it's a "legal" strike, when it's over the workers get their jobs back.

However, the studios could, theoretically, hire replacement writers. For some reason that must not be practical, either because of the timeframe involved, or the fact that they'd rather not risk money on untried writers who don't know the business and are more likely to screw things up. If the strike drags on for a year, tho, they might think about it.

[handcrafted]

Ever crossed a WGA picket line?

That's also a good point. Said replacement writers would have to be willing to run the gauntlet of eggs and baseball bats to get to the studio office.

[Mongo]

As Unionism continues to be a plague that many folks think is bad for America, I think many folks have lost faith in Corporate America and the Leadership in Washington.

The funny thing about history is this...it repeats itself.

If Corporations want to avoid their employees turning to Unions for representation...maybe they should treat them better instead of milking them for every penny.

Middleclass America isn't what it once was and many folks aren't as positive about their future. Give folks a career where they can afford to live and things like Unions sometimes die off.

It seems they are making a comeback in America to me and as you say...many of them don't have the best intentions, however, when backed against a wall sometimes a dawg will bite.

I'm not exactly thrilled about the folks that negotiate Union contracts in order to just keep the dues train rolling, but if you were to try to find a different Union to negoiate for you...the Corporation would prey on the workers as they fight for someone that will negoiate fairly and correct.

To think there is such an Organization anymore that would treat their Employees fairly, whether Union or mangement, is naive IMO.

I understand what you are saying. But what makes this country so great is that if you are getting screwed by your employer, steal as many office supplies as you can, and go find another job.

When the company sees its employees leaving for competing companies, that will have a major affect.

[StoopTroup]

I understand what you are saying. But what makes this country so great is that if you are getting screwed by your employer, steal as many office supplies as you can, and go find another job.

When the company sees its employees leaving for competing companies, that will have a major affect.
I couldn't agree more but undoing what has been going on for years would only be taken advantage of IMO.

Stealing is a sin.

Let em choke on their rubberbands and toner. :D

[sooner_born_1960]

That's also a good point. Said replacement writers would have to be willing to run the gauntlet of eggs and baseball bats to get to the studio office.
I think the technology exists where a writer wouldn't have to leave the comfort of his home, let alone cross a picket line.

[SicEmBaylor]

Ever crossed a WGA picket line?
No, but how scary could a bunch of Hollywood writers be?

Now, you bet your *** I'd think twice about crossing a United Auto Workers picket line, but the writer's guild??

[StoopTroup]

I think the technology exists where a writer wouldn't have to leave the comfort of his home, let alone cross a picket line.
True that.

I wouldn't be surprised if lots of folks are taking the work right now just as you say.

[handcrafted]

I understand what you are saying. But what makes this country so great is that if you are getting screwed by your employer, steal as many office supplies as you can, and go find another job.

When the company sees its employees leaving for competing companies, that will have a major affect.

Overall, a good assessment. In the case of the WGA, tho, there really aren't that many players in the movie/TV industry, and if they are all "closed shops" (as I suspect they are), then an individual writer would not be able to negotiate a different deal even if they changed studios or whatever.

[StoopTroup]

No, but how scary could a bunch of Hollywood writers be?

Now, you bet your *** I'd think twice about crossing a United Auto Workers picket line, but the writer's guild??
You should head up to NYC and give it a try...

You know...just as a joke....

:D

Picket Line Story (http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/entertainment/television/20071105_ap_strikingwriterspicketonbothcoasts.html )

[handcrafted]

I think the technology exists where a writer wouldn't have to leave the comfort of his home, let alone cross a picket line.

Maybe so, but as I understand the biz (from a friend of mine), most times the director likes to have the writer(s) on set to do scene changes if something isn't working.

[SicEmBaylor]

You should head up to NYC and give it a try...

You know...just as a joke....

:D

http://media.philly.com/images/300*200/89a0b5ac-1a22-4fdd-aff8-7280e7c21b0d.jpg

I bet they'd bitch slap me to death or throw their ink pens at me and such. Very dangerous. ;)

[handcrafted]

LAS is probably out picketing. He'll really drop a log when he gets back to this thread. :D

OTOH, I read in a wire story this morning that Eva Longoria is hanging out at the Desperate Housewives location house handing out free pizza to the picketers. :D

[SicEmBaylor]

LAS is probably out picketing. He'll really drop a log when he gets back to this thread. :D

OTOH, I read in a wire story this morning that Eva Longoria is hanging out at the Desperate Housewives location house handing out free pizza to the picketers. :D
Well, God knows she won't be eating it.

[Mixer!]

I think tv right now is at an all time low as far as being good or creative.

We need Seinfeld. Save us Jerry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZfUgVSfKdQ

[sooner_born_1960]

Maybe so, but as I understand the biz (from a friend of mine), most times the director likes to have the writer(s) on set to do scene changes if something isn't working.
You mean like could be done on a teleconference?

[Ike]

I think the technology exists where a writer wouldn't have to leave the comfort of his home, let alone cross a picket line.

sorta...however, for screen writing, I would think that a whole lot of the process would involve knowing the actors you are writing for...and the best way to gain that knowledge is to be around them on the set and so forth...


this is just what I imagine though.

[StoopTroup]

You all are right...they should fire them all.

[sooner_born_1960]

sorta...however, for screen writing, I would think that a whole lot of the process would involve knowing the actors you are writing for...and the best way to gain that knowledge is to be around them on the set and so forth...


this is just what I imagine though.

That very well may be, but if any job is a candidate for working anywhere you can plug in your laptop, writing seems like it would be at the top of the list.
In my job, the bosses would prefer I was here to meet with people and whatnot, but we all know it's really not that critical to the outcome.

[sooner_born_1960]

LAS, I'm not taking sides with the studios. I was simply suggesting a way that scab writers might not have to cross a picket line.

[mdklatt]

But what makes this country so great is that if you are getting screwed by your employer, steal as many office supplies as you can, and go find another job.

When the company sees its employees leaving for competing companies, that will have a major affect.

Ah, the myth of the free market. Unless you are something generic like an accountant or a teacher it's not so easy to change jobs. Most unions represent people with specialized skills in specialized industries. Lost or quit your job at GM? Just go ahead and get a job at the auto manufacturing plant across the street. What? There isn't one? Well, I hear the Dell call center is hiring.

Plus, changing jobs in this country also means changing health insurance. Good luck with that if you have a pre-existing condition.

[handcrafted]

Ah, the myth of the free market. Unless you are something generic like an accountant or a teacher it's not so easy to change jobs. Most unions represent people with specialized skills in specialized industries. Lost or quit your job at GM? Just go ahead and get a job at the auto manufacturing plant across the street. What? There isn't one? Well, I hear the Dell call center is hiring.

Plus, changing jobs in this country also means changing health insurance. Good luck with that if you have a pre-existing condition.

HIPAA has reduced that issue to a mere annoyance.

[Mongo]

Ah, the myth of the free market. Unless you are something generic like an accountant or a teacher it's not so easy to change jobs. Most unions represent people with specialized skills in specialized industries. Lost or quit your job at GM? Just go ahead and get a job at the auto manufacturing plant across the street. What? There isn't one? Well, I hear the Dell call center is hiring.

Plus, changing jobs in this country also means changing health insurance. Good luck with that if you have a pre-existing condition.


Look at our very own 1TC and his job change, he did it fairly easy, as I did also. And the only pre-existing conditions we have are being morons

[LosAngelesSooner]

Couple questions/statements, and seriously, LAS, these aren't remotely intended to be antagonistic.

1) Perhaps the refusal of the AMPTP to concede is a signal from a free market economy that the services of writers are not as valuable as they consider them to be. They are just as valuable. Free market has nothing to do with it. What's changed is the advent of the Mega Studio Corporation. It gives them almost insurmountable leverege when they have the power of GE or Sony behind them. They can survive enormous downturns and bring too much weight to bear on their employees because of this. It makes it almost impossible to unionize effectively against them. They can just wait it out until your hospital bills pile up and your mortgage defaults. Unless you see REAL writers going back out and working at McDonald's in order to survive while the strike continues (which you probably won't) then the chances of them surviving the strike without giving in is quite good.


2) The interests and motivations of the constituents of the WGA may be lily white and pure. But are the interests of the WGA union leaders also this altruistic? Having been involved with a few union interactions in my career, I can say that without exception there was a large delta between the motives of union leadership and the motives of union constituents.The leadership of the WGA consists of WGA members, most of whom still make a living as writers. It's not like they had to come off the assembly line to become guild leaders and had to make a choice, or like they're a large third party group who run the union. They are working members of the WGA. Being a writer gives them the ability to do these two things at once effectively.

As I said, this union isn't like any union in Detroit, etc.


I would sell off my least profitable business first and use that to keep my home and continue my livelihood until such time as I need more money. Then I would sell off the second business. And so on... Which is what I will probably be doing. I already sold the bar I had in the Beverly Hills area, but I still have my bar in Hollywood and I still have my part in my security company. Those will stay. For now.


As for the post about the craft services guy, there are far more people that are affected by this. For every shoot tv or film, you have about 10 Grips and electrics on every shoot day. That is a bigger hit to the economy. You also have camera and production personnel, which can be a LOT of people. True. Now factor in the post production people. The advertising people. The merchandising people. The companies who pay for the merchandising (toy companies, fast food, clothing, sporting goods). Think about the local restaurants and service industry people who don't have 50% of their customers coming in because they can't afford it.

The list goes on. It affects everyone.


I get it, really. You're not objective, I understand that. It's all about you. What a condescending and arrogant thing to say. I have a very good perspective on this thing and can look at it quite clearly, thank you.

You, on the other hand, have no clue what you're talking about.


Sooneron had some good points. How much do you and your union care about all the other people who are not members of your union, who are also out of work because of your actions and have no strike fund or anything else to fall back on? Ever think of them? Or is it all about your extra 4 cents or whatever? We do care. And obviously they care as well since they are all coming out in support of us and not crossing the picket lines. And those .04 you so arrogantly scoff at add up to a LOT of money.

Maybe you should direct your scorn at the big businesses who are so greedy that they can't SPARE the .04 per DVD?


A few other points:

1. If, as you say, the WGA has no leverage because the studios can withstand the economic loss, then the strike is pointless and your union leaders just screwed you by calling it.
Riiiight. We should just give up and bend over so they can keep shafting us. Lovely.

I never said it WAS pointless...I said it probably WOULD BE pointless and I am preparing myself for the worst.


2. Why not be happy that you have a job doing something you love? A lot of people don't, ya know. I have a couple of friends who dream of writing for TV/movies, but they can't break into the biz. If you don't want your job I'm sure they'd take it. Sure, they'd take it, but they couldn't DO it.

And just because you have a job thats your DREAM job doesn't mean it ISN'T a job and doesn't mean you should be taken advantage of.


3. It occurs to me (as it did to Veritas) that the market is setting the value of your services. Why, pray tell, is that wrong? If the studios don't yet know the value of online or dowloaded media, then why is it that they should come up with a model for residuals when they have no data on which to base contractual terms? Are you suggesting that they should craft a CBA that screws them, just because you want them to redistribute their wealth instead of paying for the actual value of your work? That's not what I'm suggesting at all. Maybe you should go reread your posts.

And the market KNOWS the value of the media...that's why they CHARGE advertisers for it and then REPORT RECORD EARNINGS. Oh...and then lie about those earnings when they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar.


The problem with so many union leaders is that they are socialists at heart, and they do not operate from a) a sound economic model, or b) your best interests.
a)wrong b)wrong.

Which big business do you work for and which small people do you work hard to keep down?

Its a shame you know so little of which you speak.


I don't understand why employers tolerate strikes. Aren't there plenty of screen writers out there trying to get their break who would be more than happy to write during the strike?

I say fire their damned *** and hire someone who wants the job.Yes, but they aren't as good and have no idea what the process is on different shows.

Oh...and if they cross the picket line and scab then they are blacklisted from joining the union in the future and working on union shows once the strike is over. Ask the SAG scabs how that worked out for them back in 2001.

They're still waiting tables.


...I think many folks have lost faith in Corporate America and the Leadership in Washington.... If Corporations want to avoid their employees turning to Unions for representation...maybe they should treat them better instead of milking them for every penny. That is the point, exactly.


Ever crossed a WGA picket line? The paper cuts STING!!! ;)


Well, ya see, they can't edzachary fire them. There's this little law Congress passed about 80-odd years ago called the National Labor Relations Act. As long as it's a "legal" strike, when it's over the workers get their jobs back. Yep. And when we do, the scabs (if there are any) will never work in this town again.


However, the studios could, theoretically, hire replacement writers. For some reason that must not be practical, either because of the timeframe involved, or the fact that they'd rather not risk money on untried writers who don't know the business and are more likely to screw things up. If the strike drags on for a year, tho, they might think about it.
Imagine a stranger walking into the office at Lost and being told to finish the season...having no CLUE where the writers were going with this since they took all their writings and notes with them. Same goes for Damages, 24, Desperate Housewives, Pushing Daisies, CSI, Grey's Anatomy, etc...



That's also a good point. Said replacement writers would have to be willing to run the gauntlet of eggs and baseball bats to get to the studio office.
More like shouted words and people who would write their names down and then make sure the scabs were blackballed.

These are WRITERS you're talking about. Sheesh...the above statement just reinforces the fact that you don't know what you're talking about regarding this strike.


True that.

I wouldn't be surprised if lots of folks are taking the work right now just as you say. We'd know. Remember the Teamsters and SAG (among others) are supporting us. They'd let us know.


Maybe so, but as I understand the biz (from a friend of mine), most times the director likes to have the writer(s) on set to do scene changes if something isn't working. It goes even more in depth than that. Writers are vital to this industry.


LAS is probably out picketing. He'll really drop a log when he gets back to this thread. :D Log dropped.


OTOH, I read in a wire story this morning that Eva Longoria is hanging out at the Desperate Housewives location house handing out free pizza to the picketers. :D Heh...that's not PIZZA she's giving out.


sorta...however, for screen writing, I would think that a whole lot of the process would involve knowing the actors you are writing for...and the best way to gain that knowledge is to be around them on the set and so forth...


this is just what I imagine though. That's not really the case in screenwriting. It IS, however, in scripted television.


That very well may be, but if any job is a candidate for working anywhere you can plug in your laptop, writing seems like it would be at the top of the list.
In my job, the bosses would prefer I was here to meet with people and whatnot, but we all know it's really not that critical to the outcome. Screenwriting, yes. But in scripted television, no. In that case the writer's room is VITAL.


LAS, I'm not taking sides with the studios. I was simply suggesting a way that scab writers might not have to cross a picket line. Cool.


Plus, changing jobs in this country also means changing health insurance. Good luck with that if you have a pre-existing condition. This is a VERY good point that many are missing.

[Veritas]

Ah, the myth of the free market. Unless you are something generic like an accountant or a teacher it's not so easy to change jobs. Most unions represent people with specialized skills in specialized industries. Lost or quit your job at GM? Just go ahead and get a job at the auto manufacturing plant across the street. What? There isn't one? Well, I hear the Dell call center is hiring.

Plus, changing jobs in this country also means changing health insurance. Good luck with that if you have a pre-existing condition.
The example you just gave contradicts your opening sentence.

Lost or quit your job at GM and can't find another one, or at least one you're willing to take? Maybe that's an indicator that your skillset isn't very marketable and that your pay rate was artificially inflated. You can write and talk? Grab that Dell call center app, because you're worth what someone is willing to pay you, not what you think you're worth.

The pre-existing condition bit...that sucks, but that has nothing to do with the establishment of pay rates.

[handcrafted]

All I gotta say is...HEH.

:D

[1stTimeCaller]

I've never had a problem finding a new place to work nor have I had any issues with health insurance.

I didn't like how I was being treated, where I was what I was doing so I packed up and found a new place to try out. It took me a few moves and a few companies to find something that I like doing and I get paid a decent wage to do it.

Why can't other people do that?

[handcrafted]

I've never had a problem finding a new place to work nor have I had any issues with health insurance.

I didn't like how I was being treated, where I was what I was doing so I packed up and found a new place to try out. It took me a few moves and a few companies to find something that I like doing and I get paid a decent wage to do it.

Why can't other people do that?

Because the man's keepin' them down, dude. Like, don't you get it? Them big meany corporations got the nerve to sell a product, make money, and then try to keep it!!! Who invented this thing anyway???? Powah to the people, man!

[frankensooner]

I've never had a problem finding a new place to work nor have I had any issues with health insurance.

I didn't like how I was being treated, where I was what I was doing so I packed up and found a new place to try out. It took me a few moves and a few companies to find something that I like doing and I get paid a decent wage to do it.

Why can't other people do that?

Cause they have kids and mortgages and bills to pay! ;)

[StoopTroup]

LAS...let's go get pizza when OU goes to the next Rose Bowl.

I think you folks will all be back to work soon.

[1stTimeCaller]

Look boss, I think you should arrange your company around my wants and needs. If you as an employer don't act right you will have to move, not me.

[Veritas]

Cause they have kids and mortgages and bills to pay! ;)
I see the winky, but I'm going to springboard off of this:

Most people mismanage the hell out of their money. They buy cars that obligate them to payments that are far higher than their income can reasonably sustain. They buy homes without researching to see whether or not they're making a sound investment. What most people don't do is save money. Yeah, they might shoot some funds into their 401(k), although many don't, but people don't have liquid funds. The money that could be saved and provide that liquidity goes for cable (with HBO), meals eaten out, etc. It's ****ed away.

Many families, if one or both spouses lost their jobs, they're screwed because they've not planned for that contingency. After all, who's ever heard of someone losing their source of income unexpectedly? Gosh, that almost never happens, why plan for it?

My point is that the situations where people find themselves between a rock and a hard place in most* cases could have been avoided had they been responsible enough to use their money wisely. A lack of options is a result of poor decision making.

And FWIW, I've been both on both sides.

*Sometimes horrible crazy **** does happen but the probabilities are low.

[mdklatt]

Lost or quit your job at GM and can't find another one, or at least one you're willing to take? Maybe that's an indicator that your skillset isn't very marketable and that your pay rate was artificially inflated.


In free market, how is one's pay rate artificially inflated? If a company doesn't want to give in to the demands of a union, why doesn't it just fire all the striking employees and hire replacements? Free market forces will soon result in a stream of well-qualified replacements, right?

[sooner_born_1960]

Both what? On both sides of What? I'm not being a smart*ss. I really don't understand that.

[Veritas]

In free market, how is one's pay rate artificially inflated? If a company doesn't want to give in to the demands of a union, why doesn't it just fire all the striking employees and hire replacements? Free market forces will soon result in a stream of well-qualified replacements, right?
Hmmm...I think I may have misinterpreted what you meant by "myth of the free market." Wouldn't be the first time (today) I tarded something up.

Free market gets tampered with when, for example, the UAW forces GM to pay wages and benefits that far exceed what wages and benefits would be if those factors were set via the market effects of supply/demand. That's what I meant by artificially inflated pay rates.

[handcrafted]

In free market, how is one's pay rate artificially inflated? If a company doesn't want to give in to the demands of a union, why doesn't it just fire all the striking employees and hire replacements? Free market forces will soon result in a stream of well-qualified replacements, right?

See the aforementioned National Labor Relations Act, which compels companies to bargain with legit unions and to not fire legally striking workers.

[Veritas]

Both what? On both sides of What? I'm not being a smart*ss. I really don't understand that.
Assuming you were talking to me...I meant to edit out that part and forgot.

I meant that I've been in the situation where I have no options because I wasted money that I should have saved and I've been in the situation where I have enough saved that I've been able to tell my employers to make some changes or I'd walk.

[mdklatt]

I've never had a problem finding a new place to work nor have I had any issues with health insurance.

...

Why can't other people do that?

They have houses and families and can't relocate at the drop of a hat. They have retirement benefits they don't want to lose. They're undergoing chemotherapy and can't afford change or possibly lose their insurance. In short: Lots of reasons.

"If I can do it so can anybody else" sounds good in theory, but not in practice.

[sooner_born_1960]

Assuming you were talking to me...I meant to edit out that part and forgot.

I meant that I've been in the situation where I have no options because I wasted money that I should have saved and I've been in the situation where I have enough saved that I've been able to tell my employers to make some changes or I'd walk.
Yes, that was to you. It sounds like you matured. If those events were are in chronological order.

[Veritas]

Yes, that was to you. It sounds like you matured. If those events were are in chronological order.
They were. And I should point out that I never said to anybody "give me this or I'm outta here." What I said was "this is my market value, this is what you're paying me, there is a substantial delta, let's fix that." But I was able to be completely confident in my position because I really wasn't afraid of them reacting by saying, "Screw you, we're not ceding anything" or saying, "You're fired for even asking such a thing."

[mdklatt]

See the aforementioned National Labor Relations Act, which compels companies to bargain with legit unions and to not fire legally striking workers.

To stick with the UAW example, there are auto manufacturers in the US who are not unionized, correct? So why doesn't GM do what they do?

[handcrafted]

To stick with the UAW example, there are auto manufacturers in the US who are not unionized, correct? So why doesn't GM do what they do?

Because once you are unionized, the NLRA's rules take hold and limit your options. Non-unionized employers don't have to play by those rules (except in the context of how to handle organizing efforts).

[mdklatt]

Because once you are unionized, the NLRA's rules take hold and limit your options. Non-unionized employers don't have to play by those rules (except in the context of how to handle organizing efforts).

If GM can't make money with union employees they should just switch industries. It's a free country. :D

[KABOOKIE]

If GM can't make money with union employees they should just switch industries. It's a free country. :D


Take a look a Boeing Aircraft and their sale of Wichita area Boeing to Spirit Industries.

[handcrafted]

If GM can't make money with union employees they should just switch industries. It's a free country. :D

And their inability to just up and retool is causing the current crash in the stock market...

...well maybe that's a stretch. But look how much the profits (or lack thereof) of one large company can affect the entire world economy.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I've never had a problem finding a new place to work nor have I had any issues with health insurance.

I didn't like how I was being treated, where I was what I was doing so I packed up and found a new place to try out. It took me a few moves and a few companies to find something that I like doing and I get paid a decent wage to do it.

Why can't other people do that? Because it's the industry standard. You'd just be jumping from one situation into a completely identical one. There isn't a way around it since it's standardised.

It's not like NBC does it differently than ABC when it comes to WGA contracts, or even simple non-union writer's contracts.


Look boss, I think you should arrange your company around my wants and needs. If you as an employer don't act right you will have to move, not me. Yeah...'cause THAT'S what's happening. :rolleyes:


LAS...let's go get pizza when OU goes to the next Rose Bowl.

I think you folks will all be back to work soon. Definitely. And I hope they get into the Rose Bowl again SOON. Maybe against Oregon??? :D (sweet revenge)

[mdklatt]

Because it's the industry standard. You'd just be jumping from one situation into a completely identical one. There isn't a way around it since it's standardised.


Exactly. Industries practice collusion...er, collective bargaining all the time, so why shouldn't employees have that same right?

[JohnnyMack]

Writer's Strike Update:

11/07/07

JohnnyMack's Couch - All TV channels that I care about still showing programming.

More updates tomorrow.

[KABOOKIE]

Writer's Strike Update:

11/07/07

JohnnyMack's Couch - All TV channels that I care about still showing programming.

More updates tomorrow.


So how much does that pr0n channel cost?

[usmc-sooner]

maybe he can apply for the writing job at fox news

[JohnnyMack]

So how much does that pr0n channel cost?

Who cares? It's worth every blister it ever caused.

[Blue]

I'm sorry about your loss and your fellow writers loss LAS, but...Cry me a river Hollywood. The country won't care about this. It hasn't come up much in conversation and when it does people say,"so." The apathy for actors and directors will stream write on down to some decent people.

If anything it is a blessing. If it forces the stay at home mom in Omaha, Ne to get her fat-a-ss off the couch and and quit watching soaps and eating bon-bons...hallelujah.

Basically to be self-righteous(but most of us feel this way), if the TV was turned off, we'd all be better off. Except it'd be hard to find an OU ticket.

[StoopTroup]

I hope Jerry Springer is able to keep his show fresh.

[handcrafted]

that is why he gets banned over and over

Point well taken.

:pop:

[handcrafted]

Who cares? It's worth every blister it ever caused.

:mad: Now THERE'S a mental image I did NOT need. Thanks a LOT. :mad:










:D

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm glad I didn't read this thread after the first page.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'm sorry about your loss and your fellow writers loss LAS, but...Cry me a river Hollywood. The country won't care about this. It hasn't come up much in conversation and when it does people say,"so." The apathy for actors and directors will stream write on down to some decent people.

If anything it is a blessing. If it forces the stay at home mom in Omaha, Ne to get her fat-a-ss off the couch and and quit watching soaps and eating bon-bons...hallelujah.

Basically to be self-righteous(but most of us feel this way), if the TV was turned off, we'd all be better off. Except it'd be hard to find an OU ticket.
But it's all perspective, isn't it? Do farmers care if dockworkers strike? Or fashion designers if automotive workers strike?

The only reason you guys don't care is because you're there and we're here. Simple.

And as for all of us being better off without TV, I guess you don't see any artistic or informative/educational value in TV or films?

[1stTimeCaller]

Because it's the industry standard. You'd just be jumping from one situation into a completely identical one. There isn't a way around it since it's standardised.


Exactly. Industries practice collusion...er, collective bargaining all the time, so why shouldn't employees have that same right?


nope. The writers union are the folks that did the collective barganing. They are the folks that have created the industry standard.

If all of the studios were open shops there would be a difference to some degree when you went to work across the street.

The writer's union made this bed, let them sleep in it.

[Veritas]

Next person that whines about spek, mentions spek or makes another post about someone elses posting style gets two weeks off.

If you want to discuss the various issues of the writer's strike, please do so.

If you can't make posts logically refuting someone else's perspective without becoming a five year old, then don't post.

The primary participants in this thread are intelligent adults. Start behaving as such.

[StoopTroup]

I know this guy who used to drive scabs into the West Virginia Coal Mines...

He was one crazy SOB.

After a few years now...I think about what he did for a living....

I'm pretty sure I don't like him...

Wow...Veritas...

You've been busy.

I figured it was coming soon....

[1stTimeCaller]

If you can't make posts logically refuting someone else's perspective without becoming a five year old, then don't post.

are you new here? ;)

[sooneron]

why no love for the caterers? ;)
The craft service table STRONGLY interferes with my fat jihadi.:texan:

[usmc-sooner]

can you write under an assumed name. You know be a union writer but write under an assumed name that is not registered with the union, like Sam Spade or something. :D

[sooneron]

can you write under an assumed name. You know be a union writer but write under an assumed name that is not registered with the union, like Sam Spade or something. :D
Yes you can, I spose. Or you could just get hired on as an associate producer or consultant. Not script, obviously.

It's how I get around working on non-DGA jobs. [shhhhh] Of course, pretty much everyone does it in the DGA.

[JohnnyMack]

If this writer's strike prevents me from watching teh college foosball this weekend, Imma have to cut a bitch.

[Veritas]

If this writer's strike prevents me from watching teh college foosball this weekend, Imma have to cut a bitch.
You know, if this strike means that we won't have to watch any heart-warming personality pieces on some player and his mommas hardship, that will be teh win.

[usmc-sooner]

I wrote the Mike Gundy rant.

[handcrafted]

Next person that whines about spek, mentions spek or makes another post about someone elses posting style gets two weeks off.

If you want to discuss the various issues of the writer's strike, please do so.

If you can't make posts logically refuting someone else's perspective without becoming a five year old, then don't post.

The primary participants in this thread are intelligent adults. Start behaving as such.

I was wondering why you hadn't locked up the thread.:O

[StoopTroup]

are you new here? ;)
I would like to nominate this for post of the year.

:pop:

[Ike]

I wonder if the WWE script writers are in the WGA....

[JohnnyMack]

I wonder if the WWE script writers are in the WGA....

God let's hope so.

[KABOOKIE]

can you write under an assumed name. You know be a union writer but write under an assumed name that is not registered with the union, like Sam Spade or something. :D


Sam Spade is on the picket line too. He works in the same building as LAS. Duh!

[LosAngelesSooner]

Yes you can, I spose. Or you could just get hired on as an associate producer or consultant. Not script, obviously.

It's how I get around working on non-DGA jobs. [shhhhh] Of course, pretty much everyone does it in the DGA.
You can write under a pseudonym, but if the WGA catches you, you're out. It's a risk.

[sooneron]

The only issue, is that you'd get no credit for the work. Unless it was some crappy show or movie you didn't want following you around.

[SCOUT]

I always find it interesting when there is a strike and what those involved are saying. If I understand it, the writers are mad because the evil multinational media companies (no doubt related to the Pentavirate) are greedy and are imposing their will on the downtrodden writers.

The writers, in turn, will impose their will on those lowly independent writers if their dare cross the wishes of the writers union. Their careers will be destroyed, their crops burned and their sunglasses scratched if they do not succumb to the union desires.

[JohnnyMack]

You can write under a pseudonym, but if the WGA catches you, you're out. It's a risk.

What would you know about posting under pseudodnyms?

[LosAngelesSooner]

What would you know about posting under pseudodnyms? :rolleyes:
*Sigh*

Not much.

For the last freakin' time...a mod looked at the IPs and backed me up on this AGES AGO. I wasn't the Sam Spade dude, although I do know who he is.

Let it go, people. It's childish, at this point.

Meanwhile...back on topic...

For those of you who are sympathetic to our plight...please go here and sign this online petition to show your support for the WGA and its members.

http://www.petitiononline.com/WGA/petition.html

Thanks so much for all of you who have shown your support. I really appreciate it.

[usmc-sooner]

:rolleyes:
*Sigh*

Not much.

For the last freakin' time...a mod looked at the IPs and backed me up on this AGES AGO. I wasn't the Sam Spade dude, although I do know who he is.

Let it go, people. It's childish, at this point.

Meanwhile...back on topic...

For those of you who are sympathetic to our plight...please go here and sign this online petition to show your support for the WGA and its members.

http://www.petitiononline.com/WGA/petition.html

Thanks so much for all of you who have shown your support. I really appreciate it.

oh hell you used 2 different emails or 2 different computers.

but seriously I never wish bad things on anybody so hopefully you pull thru

[KABOOKIE]

:rolleyes:
*Sigh*

Not much.

For the last freakin' time...a mod looked at the IPs and backed me up on this AGES AGO. I wasn't the Sam Spade dude, although I do know who he is.

Let it go, people. It's childish, at this point.


Heh.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92497&highlight=maltese

[badger]

The writers really needed to get back to work last time and DVD's weren't the popular media when they signed the old contract.

Right now, you can look forward to a brand new American Gladiators and other new "gameshow" like shows, as well as Big Brother during the spring instead of the summer... and other "reality television" like shows.

Personally, I think the big difference this time around is that the producers and actors are supporting the writers (read: actors want a good union deal when their contract comes due soon). The networks are screwed... not. They are going to have more newsy shows, create new shows like they did last time around (like COPS for example) and people will still watch television (like American Idol, the highest rated show on television now - entirely unscripted!)

[JohnnyMack]

WVU and Louisville still comin' in loud and clear in all its HD glory.

Still not carin' too much about this strike.

[usmc-sooner]

can we fine the writers for the crappiest tv shows in history.

[sooneron]

The writers really needed to get back to work last time and DVD's weren't the popular media when they signed the old contract.

Right now, you can look forward to a brand new American Gladiators and other new "gameshow" like shows, as well as Big Brother during the spring instead of the summer... and other "reality television" like shows.

Personally, I think the big difference this time around is that the producers and actors are supporting the writers (read: actors want a good union deal when their contract comes due soon). The networks are screwed... not. They are going to have more newsy shows, create new shows like they did last time around (like COPS for example) and people will still watch television (like American Idol, the highest rated show on television now - entirely unscripted!)
What she said and what's scary is that 'Merica will tune into the next great train wreck reality show.

[Blue]

Big Brother 9 ahead of time!!! WoooHooo!

[soonerboomer93]

Heh.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92497&highlight=maltese

necro coming up

[batonrougesooner]

Just don't **** with Jack Baurer and my 24!

[Blue]

Just don't **** with Jack Baurer and my 24!

24 is done! for now...

[Harry Beanbag]

Meanwhile...back on topic...

For those of you who are sympathetic to our plight...please go here and sign this online petition to show your support for the WGA and its members.

http://www.petitiononline.com/WGA/petition.html

Thanks so much for all of you who have shown your support. I really appreciate it.



I think I'll pass on supporting your "plight". :rolleyes:

[LosAngelesSooner]

and people will still watch television (like American Idol, the highest rated show on television now - entirely unscripted!)
You actually believe that American Idol is entirely unscripted?

[usmc-sooner]

does someone write down,

go out there sing, sing real crappy, when your done take your insults, cry. exit stage left. Next

[Scott D]

What she said and what's scary is that 'Merica will tune into the next great train wreck reality show.

tis why I wish that show "There's Something About Miriam" was going to be on ABC or CBS rather than Fox Reality. I don't know which would amuse me more. Showing contestants for the absolute ******s they are, or mocking all of the viewing audience for their stupid "reality tv" addictions.

[StoopTroup]

I bet Dr. Phil writes all of his own stuff.

[Scott D]

I bet Dr. Phil writes all of his own stuff.

Stuart Smalley is his ghost-writer.

[sooneron]

Stuart Smalley is his ghost-writer.
heh

[sooneron]

I find it amusing when people that are refusing to go to work ask people to be sympathetic with their "plight".

What kind of car do you drive LAS?

I'm not being smug, just curious.

[Mjcpr]

You smug bastard.

[crawfish]

You actually believe that American Idol is entirely unscripted?

I'm gonna say yes until some writer comes forward and admits he writes that crap. :D

[KABOOKIE]

We build crappy cars! Pay us more!

We write crappy shows. Pay us more!

Hello. I come to America and work for 2 dolla.

[JohnnyMack]

Hello. I come to America and work for 2 dolla.

You're a stripper?

[KABOOKIE]

You're a stripper?

Yeah, I'm in one of those Full Monty routines. It doesn't pay much but the ****'s and Cougars are hot for that kind of stuff!!!

[GrapevineSooner]

I'm gonna say yes until some writer comes forward and admits he writes that crap. :D

Or admit he/she is the brainchild behind VoteForTheWorst.com ;)

[Scott D]

I'm gonna say yes until some writer comes forward and admits he writes that crap. :D

if you saw that Paula Abdul reality show when it was on, you'd know that she has to have scripted responses to the performances ;)

[StoopTroup]

Is the strike over yet?

Are the two sides talking?

[bluedogok]

That too is a losing battle. They can keep building more and more robust encryption until the cows come home, and it still wont keep a DVD-Jon from reverse engineering a software HD player to get the keys. They know this, which is why they love the DMCA so much.
That is why the entertainment industry wrote the legislation.....


In free market, how is one's pay rate artificially inflated? If a company doesn't want to give in to the demands of a union, why doesn't it just fire all the striking employees and hire replacements? Free market forces will soon result in a stream of well-qualified replacements, right?
Since when is the US a "Free Market Economy"? It has been a managed market economy since at least 1890.

[usmc-sooner]

Is the strike over yet?

Are the two sides talking?

As of this moment I have not talked to LAS

[Shamrock]

From page 4 .....


This might give you an idea of what we're up against in this strike.


My writing partner wrote and directed 1/4 of the episodes of “SpongeBob SquarePants” and I was responsible for 1/5 of the episodes of “The Angry Beavers.”

That dude was hostile. His beaver must have been real angry.

[85Sooner]

Seems to me letterman, leno et al used to write their own material. Have they lost that talent since they are being paid millions a year? WHile I think the writers have a case I still think the actors are way way way overcompensated- especially to appeal to the masses via PSA's discouraging bootlegging because it is hurting the income of the production staffs. I don't have much sympathy for someone getting paid 30 million for 6 months of work.Sorry.

[sanantoniosooner]

Seems to me letterman, leno et al used to write their own material. Have they lost that talent since they are being paid millions a year? WHile I think the writers have a case I still think the actors are way way way overcompensated- especially to appeal to the masses via PSA's discouraging bootlegging because it is hurting the income of the production staffs. I don't have much sympathy for someone getting paid 30 million for 6 months of work.Sorry.
That was a lot of words to contribute nothing to the conversation;)

Leno and Letterman didn't forget how to be funny. They are supporting the writers by not doing the shows without them.

How much actors make isn't the debate.

Much like squabbles between Team Owners and Players, it's hard to relate in a fight between Billionaires and Millionaires.

[sooneron]

http://www.wga.org/agency/MemAgencyDetail.asp?ID=35537&Name=Jay+Leno&Area=W

WGA East is down right now, I am sure that Letterman is a member too.


Oh, and when the **** was Leno EVER funny?

[sanantoniosooner]

http://www.wga.org/agency/MemAgencyDetail.asp?ID=35537&Name=Jay+Leno&Area=W

WGA East is down right now, I am sure that Letterman is a member too.


Oh, and when the **** was Leno EVER funny?
Letterman owns Leno.

That said, Leno was funnier when he wrote his own stuff. His show is very predicatable. Funny+unpredictable>>>>funny+predicatable

[LosAngelesSooner]

Seems to me letterman, leno et al used to write their own material. Have they lost that talent since they are being paid millions a year? WHile I think the writers have a case I still think the actors are way way way overcompensated- especially to appeal to the masses via PSA's discouraging bootlegging because it is hurting the income of the production staffs. I don't have much sympathy for someone getting paid 30 million for 6 months of work.Sorry.

That was a lot of words to contribute nothing to the conversation;)

Leno and Letterman didn't forget how to be funny. They are supporting the writers by not doing the shows without them.

How much actors make isn't the debate.

Much like squabbles between Team Owners and Players, it's hard to relate in a fight between Billionaires and Millionaires.
Well, it's not so much that they aren't working out of solidarity (though that may be in their hearts). It's more that there is too much for one person to write by themselves every night, so they have a staff of writers. Also, both Letterman AND Leno are members of the WGA, so they are on strike as well, they just don't publicize that since they are the face of the operation.

And "how much actors make" will be part of the debate when they go on strike next year.

As for how much the writers make, sure there are some of us who do well and a few of us who do QUITE will, but the vast majority eek by on middle to lower middle class earnings.

[Veritas]

As for how much the writers make, sure there are some of us who do well and a few of us who do QUITE will, but the vast majority eek by on middle to lower middle class earnings.
It would be really interesting to see a frequency distribution on what writers make.

[usmc-sooner]

It would be really interesting to see a frequency distribution on what writers make.

you seriously don't think LAS would just make something up do you? :D

[Veritas]

you seriously don't think LAS would just make something up do you? :D
I don't think he'd make anything up, no. I'd expect someone to cite their source.

[usmc-sooner]

I don't think he'd make anything up, no. I'd expect someone to cite their source.

oh I know I'm just joking around.

[StoopTroup]

How much does being a Corporate suck-up / errand boy pay?

I'm thinking it would be a good time to snag one of those jobs right now.

Surely many of the old suck-ups are on the chopping block.

;)

[bluedogok]

And "how much actors make" will be part of the debate when they go on strike next year.
It is just like the NFL, you only hear about the few that make stupid amounts of money and not the ones who make the league minimum, this skews the perception that everyone is making millions.

[1stTimeCaller]

yeah, those poor bastards making only a few hundred thousand dollars per year, not counting the annuity the NFL gives you each year and other retirement goodies.

[JohnnyMack]

Well this big, bad strike didn't affect my watching of the foosball, so I still don't care.

I wonder if these poor strikers have had to revert to drinking Folger's and given up teh Starbuck's yet?

[Rhino]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7227/strike018dr9.jpg

[Blue]

Letterman owns Leno.




Whaaaatttt? Letterman is an old bitter bastard. Leno isn't much better, but Letterman has looked uninterested since 97.

I'm surprised at you sas. :confused:

[Blue]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7227/strike018dr9.jpg


Is that LAS in the tiny shorts???:eek:

[KABOOKIE]

Is that LAS in the tiny shorts???:eek:

Oh he's in them.

[LosAngelesSooner]

It would be really interesting to see a frequency distribution on what writers make.If you're REALLY interested (meaning that it would be kinda a pain in my arse to get it done, but I would do it if you really wanted me to) I could contact the guild and request the info. I'm sure they'd have it on file somewhere.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Is that LAS in the tiny shorts???:eek:Are you kidding me?! I'd NEVER be caught in a TAN hat!

;)

[KABOOKIE]

Well, I think the effects of the writer’s strike is starting to actually rear its ugly head. Last night those scab writers forgot to write that the Colts actually converted on 4th and inches and eventually won the game. Instead those moran replacements wrote some silly crapola about a false start penalty and how the San Diego Chickens won the game. GET THIS STRIKE OVER!!!!!

[badger]

I think that the funniest outcome of this writers strike is proving that all these smart, clever personalities on late night television and other shows really are not as smart and clever as they appear... SERIOUSLY! Writer your own sheyot, get your behind on stage and save 100+ people's jobs that are about to be laid off!

So selfish, all around. They are all shooting themselves in the leg.

[sooneron]

I think that the funniest outcome of this writers strike is proving that all these smart, clever personalities on late night television and other shows really are not as smart and clever as they appear... SERIOUSLY! Writer your own sheyot, get your behind on stage and save 100+ people's jobs that are about to be laid off!

So selfish, all around. They are all shooting themselves in the leg.
Uh, I believe that I pointed out that most of the late night peeps are WGA members as they prolly must be due to the contract with the union so that they can write on their own show. It's a cyclical that the companies/networks set up with the unions. The edit button must be nearby...

[badger]

Uh, I believe that I pointed out that most of the late night peeps are WGA members as they prolly must be due to the contract with the union so that they can write on their own show. It's a cyclical that the companies/networks set up with the unions. The edit button must be nearby...
Nah, Dave Letterman and Johnny Carson tried to continue through the strike in the 80s. They're sitting it out now because they relied on writing too much and not their own wit that they supposedly had.

[sooneron]

I think Letterman is pretty much on the side of the strikers. If he was just sitting out cuz he had nothing, he wouldn't have called the powers that be "cowards, cutthroats, and weasels".

Plus, I'd like to see ANYONE come up with about 40 minutes of material everyday that would be broadcast worthy.

[Mixer!]

AAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!! (http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-fox200708scheduleoverhaul,0,5434043.story?coll=zap-news-headlines)