Playoffs versus Bowls

[Suerreal]

I've given some thought to resolving the morass of figuring out which big college football team is the best.

To restate the obvious:
Playoffs are the only fair way to ensure best team week-to-week with no letdowns or errors winds up as the national champions.

Bowls, OTOH, have a whole lot of tradition, money, and fun in them. Go to a major bowl, and there's a week worth of entertainment for fans, players, and big donors. Most are over the holidays, when people are able to travel, and let the student-athletes (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) return to campus for the spring semester with the season behind them.

Here's my suggestion to keep most of the bowl system in place, and yet allow a playoff system to crown the champion:
Lower tier bowl games involving teams not selected for the playoffs would be played before Christmas (most already are).
16 teams would be selected for the playoffs. At least 8 teams would be from current BCS conferences, at least 4 from other conferences, and 4 at-large slots would be voted on.
The weekend of or just after Christmas would feature 8 bowl games, complete with their parades, rodeos, balls, and other entertainment in which the 16 teams would square off for round 1.
The weekend of, or just after New Year's would feature 4 premiere major bowl games, (probably Rose, Orange, Sugar, and Fiesta) complete with their parades, rodeos, balls, and other entertainment for the 8 winners. This would conclude the bowl season.
The following weekend would see two games (without all the pageantry of a bowl game) in warm-weather or domed stadiums, and the following weekend the championship game, also by itself in a warm-weather or domed stadium.

Advantages:
- only 4 teams have the playoffs potentially extending into the winter/spring term.
- bowls and all their traditions continue.
- other teams not involved in the playoffs still get an end-of-season reward. There may not be as many teams represented in bowl games, but do 6-6 teams really belong in a bowl game? I mean Nebraska could still wind up 6-6 this year...
- fans get the whole package deal for the bowl weeks, and most will do it during the holidays, same as now.

Thoughts?

[Mac94]

I think both bowls and playoffs are viable ... here is something I typed up years ago (hence the teams used) but the format would work within the current BCS system.

The BCS needs to become a playoff, and it is already set up to evolve into a playoff system.
IMHO, the ideal would be a tournament of conference champions. College football has so many
teams across the land, that it is really hard to determine which is actually better than another.
Is a teams lofty win loss record and ranking the product of true dominance or a weak conference
and schedule? Which conference is really better in any given year? We really can't even begin
to make that kind of comparision until after the bowl season. Right now, we have a system of
regional conferences across this country and each one has it's own system for determining which
of it's teams is the best of it's conference. Right now, the current BCS takes six of those
teams and places them into its system? What if the BCS continued to do this, and maybe open
it up a bit to take all of the conference champs and actually seeded these champs and played a
real "Bowl Championship Series?" If we included almost all the conferences we would have a
seeding that looked someting like this:

USC (11-1)
LSU (12-1)
Michigan (10-2)
Florida St. (10-2)
Miami (11-3)
Kansas St. (11-3)
Miami (OH) (12-1)
Boise St. (12-1)
Utah (9-2)
Southern Miss. (9-3)

Ten teams (and the conferences that are invited could be negotiated) would be the teams in
this proposed system. A week by week would go something like this:

Week 1

game 1: Southern Miss @ Miami (OH)
game 2: Utah @ Boise St.

Everyone else would have a bye. This would be kind of a "play in" into an 8 team tournament.
The higher seeded team would play at home as a reward for the higher ranking (better record?).

week 2

game 3: Utah/Boise St. @ USC
game 4: USM/Miami (OH) @ LSU
game 5: Kansas St. @ Michigan
game 6: Miami @ Florida St.

Again, the higher seeded team gets to play on their own turf. This rewards these teams with
an extra home game (AD's would love the extra $$$ from another home game) which would be good
for the teams and their fans.

week 3

Rose Bowl: game 3 winner vs. game 6 winner
Orange Bowl: game 4 winner vs game 5 winner

Now we can incorporate the BCS bowls into the final four situation. The 4 bowls would operate
under a 2-1-1 type system in which they would get a final four game two years in a row, then
get the N.C. game one year, then get a "best of the rest game" one year, say OU vs Ohio St.
under this years situation.

week 4

Sugar Bowl

This type of system would operate under the premise that if you are not the best in your own
league, then you can't be considered the best in the land. Of course, some will ask about a
situation like OU this year or an unbeaten Iowa like last year. My answer is simple, if you're
not the best in your own conference then you're out, and each conference will make its own rules
for determining its champion. If that means a championship game, fine, if that means the highest
ranked team, fine, if a conference wants to have an arm wrestling match between the two teams
strength and conditioning coaches or mud wrestling matchs between the cheerleadering squads, I
don't care. If you don't like the way your league determines its champion, take it up with your
league office. My only rule is one team per conference.

This would also allow the other bowl games to continue on as they always have. Under the current
system, bowls like the Cotton or Alamo have zero, zip, nada meaning to determining a national
champion so in reality, their status would remain unchanged. THey can take teams and play their
games just like they always have.

[Ash]

IBTM

[yermom]

how do you sell tickets for these games?

[Mac94]

I would assume a school would see how basketball, the NFL, and lower division college football schools do it and come upo with a system.

[usmc-sooner]

Thoughts?

there's already a 20 page thread on it here

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102403

[yermom]

I would assume a school would see how basketball, the NFL, and lower division college football schools do it and come upo with a system.

the NFL does this with some teams getting home-field the whole time, that's a lot different than having to travel to a bowl with a week's notice

basketball is done kinda regionally, but it's also multiple games and multiple teams over a few days, not one team playing with a week between games. these are also much smaller venues

i have no idea how lower division football works, but i'm pretty sure it's on home fields and i'm thinking they aren't trying to fill 80-90k stadiums either

i don't know about you guys, but it's hard enough to plan for 1-2 post season games as a fan that goes to games

those of you that watch from the couch probably don't care too much about that though

[humblesooner]

In a playoff system, if there are more than 4 teams involved, the first round (8 teams) or first and second round (16 teams) would have to be home games for the favorites. Asking fans to travel to the Gator Bowl for a Christmas game, then travel to San Diego for a New Year's game, then travel to Tiempe a week later for the semi-finals, then to New Orleans a week later for the championship game would be a little much.
I know there are some people that would pull the train, but I would bet the number who made all 4 games would be single digits in percentages of fans.
My guess is most would wait until the semis, leaving the locals to try and fill the first and/or second round games. Thereby creating a revenue loss for the NCAA. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the current Bowl System is all about revenue for the NCAA.

[Mac94]

yermom -

First, that's why I incorporate home games in the first two rounds and bowls only in the last two ... involving four teams.

So, out of 119 schools, this would effect 4. And only 2 of those would be invovled in two "neitral sites."

As for those, first, as nig as these things would be ... alot of the tickets, sadly, would go corporate in the host cites, sponsors, etc. There would be alotments for each school ... and some fans would go. Maybe not to each .... but enough to sell 20,000 each week for each school. Again, the rest would go corporate. Plus, there would be those with no ties to either school want to go just for the love of college football. The one thing I wouldn't expect would be much of an issue in selling tickets. Enough fans from schools that sell tens of thousands of season tickets each year could sell their allotment. They wouldn't need to move 80,000 fans to two different venues for two straight weeks. There would be in no way that many tickets available to a school.

[SoonerMachine]

I know it's beaten to death but here's how I'd do it:


2006 BCS 8-team Playoff Formula:

1. After the regular season ends, rank the eleven D–1A conference champions by the BCS:

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#1 – Ohio State – Big 10
#2 – Florida – SEC
#5 – USC – Pacific 10
#6 – Louisville – Big East
#8 – Boise State – WAC
#10 – OU – Big 12
#14 – Wake Forest – ACC
#20 – BYU – Mountain West
(NR) – Houston – Conference USA
(NR) – Central Michigan – MAC
(NR) – Troy – Sun Belt

2. Select the six highest ranked conference champions:

#1 – Ohio State – Big 10
#2 – Florida – SEC
#5 – USC – Pacific 10
#6 – Louisville – Big East
#8 – Boise State – WAC
#10 – OU – Big 12

3. Select the two highest ranked at-large teams (conference or independent):

#3 – Michigan – Big 10
#4 – LSU – SEC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1st Round:

#1 Ohio State hosts #10 OU

#2 Florida hosts #8 Boise State

#5 USC hosts #6 Louisville

#3 Michigan hosts #4 LSU (at-large elimination game)*

2nd Round:

Highest rank hosts lowest rank

Second highest hosts third lowest

3rd Round:

Winners play in the national championship game.

*In the event an at-large team is an independent, then the 1st round will proceed as follows:

1st Round:

Highest rank hosts lowest rank
Second highest hosts seventh lowest
Third highest hosts sixth lowest
Forth highest hosts fifth lowest


Note: All bowl games remain, including invitations to the six teams eliminated prior to the championship.


Historical Examples:

1998

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#1 – Tennessee – SEC
#2 – Florida State – ACC
#5 – UCLA – Pacific 10
#6 – Texas A&M – Big 12
#9 – Wisconsin – Big 10
#10 – Tulane – Conference USA

At-Large Teams

#3 – Kansas State – Big 12
#4 – Ohio State – Big 10

1st Round:

#1 Tennessee hosts #10 Tulane

#2 Florida State hosts #9 Wisconsin

#5 UCLA hosts #6 Texas A&M

#3 Kansas State hosts #4 Ohio State (at-large elimination game)


1999

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#1 – Florida State – ACC
#2 – Virginia Tech – Big East
#3 – Nebraska – Big 12
#4 – Alabama – SEC
#7 – Wisconsin – Big 10
#12 – Marshall – MAC

At-Large Teams

#5 – Tennessee – SEC
#6 – Kansas State – Big 12

1st Round:

#1 Florida State hosts #12 Marshall

#2 Virginia Tech hosts #7 Wisconsin

#3 Nebraska hosts #4 Alabama

#5 Tennessee hosts #6 Kansas State (at-large elimination game)


2000

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#1 – OU – Big 12
#2 – Florida State – ACC
#3 – Miami – Big East
#4 – Washington – Pacific 10
#7 – Florida – SEC
#14 – TCU – WAC

At-Large Teams

#5 – Virginia Tech – Big East
#6 – Oregon State – Pacific 10

1st Round:

#1 OU hosts #14 TCU

#2 Florida State hosts #7 Florida

#3 Miami hosts #4 Washington

#5 Virginia Tech hosts #6 Oregon State (at-large elimination game)


2001

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#1 – Miami – Big East
#3 – Colorado – Big 12
#4 – Oregon – Pacific 10
#8 – Illinois – Big 10
#10 – Maryland – ACC
#13 – LSU – SEC

At-Large Teams

#2 – Nebraska – Big 12
#5 – Florida – SEC

1st Round:

#1 Miami hosts #13 LSU

#3 Colorado hosts #10 Maryland

#4 Oregon hosts #8 Illinois

#2 Nebraska hosts #5 Florida (at-large elimination game)


2002

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#1 – Miami – Big East
#2 – Ohio State – Big 10
#3 – Georgia – SEC
#6 – Washington State – Pacific 10
#7 – Oklahoma – Big 12
#14 – Florida State - ACC

At-Large Teams

#4 – USC – Pacific 10
#5 – Iowa – Big 10

1st Round:

#1 Miami hosts #14 Florida State

#2 Ohio State hosts #7 Oklahoma

#3 Georgia hosts #6 Washington State

#4 USC hosts #5 Iowa (at-large elimination game)


2003

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#2 – LSU – SEC
#3 – USC – ACC
#4 – Michigan – Big 10
#7 – Florida State – ACC
#9 – Miami – Big East
#10 – Kansas State – Big 12

At-Large Teams

#1 – OU – Big 12
#5 – Ohio State – Big 10

1st Round:

#2 LSU hosts #10 Kansas State

#3 USC hosts #9 Miami

#4 Michigan hosts #7 Florida State

#1 OU hosts #5 Ohio State (at-large elimination game)


2004

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#1 – USC – Pacific 10
#2 – OU – Big 12
#3 – Auburn – SEC
#6 – Utah – Mountain West
#8 – Virginia Tech – ACC
#9 – Boise State – WAC

At-Large Teams

#4 – Texas – Big 12
#5 – California – Pacific 10

1st Round:

#1 USC hosts #9 Boise State

#2 OU hosts #8 Virginia Tech

#3 Auburn hosts #6 Utah

#4 Texas hosts #5 California (at-large elimination game)


2005

BCS Rank | Champion | Conference

#1 – USC – Pacific 10
#2 – Texas – Big 12
#3 – Penn State – Big 10
#7 – Georgia – SEC
#11 – West Virginia – Big East
#14 – TCU – Mountain West

At-Large Teams

#4 – Ohio State – Big 10
#5 – Oregon – Pacific 10

1st Round:

#1 USC hosts #14 TCU

#2 Texas hosts #11 West Virginia

#3 Penn State hosts #7 Georgia

#4 Ohio hosts #5 Oregon (at-large elimination game)

[yermom]

yermom -

First, that's why I incorporate home games in the first two rounds and bowls only in the last two ... involving four teams.

So, out of 119 schools, this would effect 4. And only 2 of those would be invovled in two "neitral sites."

As for those, first, as nig as these things would be ... alot of the tickets, sadly, would go corporate in the host cites, sponsors, etc. There would be alotments for each school ... and some fans would go. Maybe not to each .... but enough to sell 20,000 each week for each school. Again, the rest would go corporate. Plus, there would be those with no ties to either school want to go just for the love of college football. The one thing I wouldn't expect would be much of an issue in selling tickets. Enough fans from schools that sell tens of thousands of season tickets each year could sell their allotment. They wouldn't need to move 80,000 fans to two different venues for two straight weeks. There would be in no way that many tickets available to a school.

maybe only 4 teams, but if your team is close you need to start making plans. then you have to make travel plans in consecutive weeks, instead of a month apart

[reddfoxx]

Forget the playoffs- I can't wait to see Georgia Tech play Toledo in the Music City Bowl!

[soonermix]

forget the entire bowl system and start the entire season with a 5 game preseason where you play your most hated rivals or what not. then after that each team is seeded for a.... get this... a 128 team playoff. we would need to add a few teams to div 1-a. however once you lose you pick up games from other losers for possible seeding tourney's at years end so every team gets 12 games everybody gets happy. you are always playing for something like depending on when you lose that is automatic seeding for next year. that ought to make everybody happy. so nobody is left out.


or not

[Crucifax Autumn]

Not.

[Leroy Lizard]

i have no idea how lower division football works, but i'm pretty sure it's on home fields and i'm thinking they aren't trying to fill 80-90k stadiums either

Last years' title was played in front of 22,000 fans, the largest crowd in ten years. (Usually they get around 18,000 fans to bother showing up.) I doubt either team (Appy State or UMass) earned a single dime once expenses were paid. And keep in mind that this game happened to be played in Chattanooga, not too far from North Carolina.

By the way, if the national championship game had been one of Appy St.'s home games, it would have been the least attended game of the season. Amazing if you think about it: Every home game for Appy State outsold the national championship game.

[sooneron]

Why in the world do you think that texas, mich or hawaii deserve to play for the title. 16 teams is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but, no. This is not D2.

[yermom]

forget the entire bowl system and start the entire season with a 5 game preseason where you play your most hated rivals or what not. then after that each team is seeded for a.... get this... a 128 team playoff. we would need to add a few teams to div 1-a. however once you lose you pick up games from other losers for possible seeding tourney's at years end so every team gets 12 games everybody gets happy. you are always playing for something like depending on when you lose that is automatic seeding for next year. that ought to make everybody happy. so nobody is left out.


or not

if there weren't 80-100k season ticket holders involved in attending home games, swiss-style pairings through the season would be a cool idea

[Jdog]

yermom -

First, that's why I incorporate home games in the first two rounds and bowls only in the last two ... involving four teams.

So, out of 119 schools, this would effect 4. And only 2 of those would be invovled in two "neitral sites."

As for those, first, as nig as these things would be ... alot of the tickets, sadly, would go corporate in the host cites, sponsors, etc. There would be alotments for each school ... and some fans would go. Maybe not to each .... but enough to sell 20,000 each week for each school. Again, the rest would go corporate. Plus, there would be those with no ties to either school want to go just for the love of college football. The one thing I wouldn't expect would be much of an issue in selling tickets. Enough fans from schools that sell tens of thousands of season tickets each year could sell their allotment. They wouldn't need to move 80,000 fans to two different venues for two straight weeks. There would be in no way that many tickets available to a school.

Problems:
How many empty seats do we see at the Big12 championship games. Anyone remember the OU vs cu game in Houston - it was maybe half full.

How many fans can get the time off and afford to travel to Tempe and then to, say LA for the NC game -- I would suppose that maybe 10,000 to 15,000 OU fans at most might make the trip to Tempe - the rest would hope to get a seat for the NC game.

I've got 40 yard line seats in Norman - but I wind up with end zone seats from the University to the Bowl games - I'm not doing that again.

Solution:
Two weeks after conf championship games
(Including ones for both the PAC 10 (with BYU and Utah/or Boise Statein the conf) and Big 10 (w/ND in the conf)
you would have an 8 team playoff with 6 conf champs and 2 wild cards - top 4 seeds get home field advantage(use the BCS computer formulas) - this way they're all sell outs.
A week after that you play two games – at top 2 seeds Home field sites - again sell outs.
Then rotate the 4 major bowl “locations” for the NC game the first or second week in January.

The Bowls become what they were intended to be in the first place - a fun game to attend and a reward for a great season (for the rest of the 111 teams that aren't playing for a NC).