Joel Osteen?

[Okla-homey]

I've become somewhat fascinated by the guy. It would appear he is the heir- apparent to the TV preacher title belt. I've watched a bit this morning. I have no idea why.

Here's what I gather:

1) His message seems to be focused on the "prosperity gospel." My understanding of that school is it translates roughly: "If you are faithful, you will receive worldly riches." I presume the converse also applies. IOW, if you're poor, sick or your life is jacked-up, it's because of your lack of faith or some other spiritual flaw. I really don't understand where adherents find this in scripture. Nevertheless, it appears like a ton of folks are buying it.

2) He has a ginormous church.

Thoughts?

[King Crimson]

the conflation of faith/spirituality and wealth is pretty lame hucksterism, IMO.

[royalfan5]

When I used to go to the Wal-Marts regularly they usually had an end piece dedicated to his books. I always tried to slip a copy in my atheist roommates shopping cart. Other than that all I know about him is that his church bought the Rocket's old Arena in Houston, and that it is the new agey services that I hate so much.

[boomersooner28]

Yeah, I watched a special on the guy a few weeks ago. His Church is GINORMOUS (Houston, TX). I do like his message, but there is just something about the way he talks that drives me up the damn wall! It's almost like he is trying to be TOO passionate when he talks..even regular, not when he's preaching. I saw him on Larry King Live and it drove me bonkers. I don't know, maybe I'm weird.

[Widescreen]

The reason his church is so big is because he doesn't really "preach". He just says stuff to make people feel good about themselves - which, by the way, is not actually preaching the gospel. His performance on Larry King was horrendous. He refused to say that believing in Christ was the only way to heaven. IOW, not making anyone mad at him is more important to him than telling what he supposedly believes. Another example of why his church is so large.

He's a motivational speaker - not an evangelist.

[Okla-homey]

The reason his church is so big is because he doesn't really "preach". He just says stuff to make people feel good about themselves - which, by the way, is not actually preaching the gospel. His performance on Larry King was horrendous. He refused to say that believing in Christ was the only way to heaven. IOW, not making anyone mad at him is more important to him than telling what he supposedly believes. Another example of why his church is so large.

He's a motivational speaker - not an evangelist.

I agree. He seems like more of a life coach than anything else. "Don't worry, be happy," etc.

[TUSooner]

I agree. He seems like more of a life coach than anything else. "Don't worry, be happy," etc.
That's certainly my impression.
Not that it's necessarily bad advice; some people need reminding in some way or another about "the lilies of the field" (which I think is part of the lectionary readings in many churches this Sunday).
The "faith makes you materially rich" thing is a bit dodgy, though.

[jk the sooner fan]

The reason his church is so big is because he doesn't really "preach". He just says stuff to make people feel good about themselves - which, by the way, is not actually preaching the gospel. His performance on Larry King was horrendous. He refused to say that believing in Christ was the only way to heaven. IOW, not making anyone mad at him is more important to him than telling what he supposedly believes. Another example of why his church is so large.

He's a motivational speaker - not an evangelist.

what he said

he has no educational training in theology - he's nothing more than a positive/motivational speaker

VERY little of his service is scripture based

god lite is what i call it - there is no cross anywhere on his pulpit

however, if you can get them in the church, thats half the battle

[Okla-homey]

what he said

he has no educational training in theology

Wikipedia says he went to ORU for a while, but he dropped out.

I would be interested in learning what he pays himself annually from ministry proceeds.

[Jerk]

I don't see how anyone can believe in the scriptual basis of the 'prosperity preachers' given that this was the same exact problem that Jesus saw with the pharisees.

Just read the parable of the rich man and Lazuras.

[jk the sooner fan]

ok, let me rephrase

he is not degreed in theology

[JohnnyMack]

Jeebus wants you to have an Escalade.

[Jerk]

Jeebus wants you to have an Escalade.

With spinner wheels, yo!

[jk the sooner fan]

his message certainly isnt bad.....far from it

its just not based on scripture

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

is he the young dude with the mullet?

[King Crimson]

I don't see how anyone can believe in the scriptual basis of the 'prosperity preachers' given that this was the same exact problem that Jesus saw with the pharisees.

Just read the parable of the rich man and Lazuras.

that would be my thought. it was Jesus who overturned the tables of the money-changers in the temple, right? Christ also being the one who advocated giving away worldly possessions as i recall.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I m not a fan really..Doesnt do anything for me. He closes his eyes when he talks.

Whats really odd is his name plastered all over his church walls. Its weird to me that a preacher would do that. Its one thing on a sign outside but to actually have it painted on the walls..weird

[Okla-homey]

ok, let me rephrase

he is not degreed in theology

I wasn't critiquing. I was verifying you were correct. He went to ORU for a while and apparently left to pursue his calling.

I'm not implying you need a degree to be a preacher. Far from it, but it does "fit" with Osteen's reluctance to cite scriptural authority for the stuff he advocates. I gatrher he justifies his message in the notion the whole Bible tells us God = Love. He then employs a bit of sketchy inductive reasoning to derive his thesis that just like Earthly parents who lose track of their adult children, He wants His children to have "abundance" and will bless us with success and material fruits if we claim our inheritance.

IMHO, there are lot of Godly folks who fervently try to do the right thing who are poor as churchmice or suffer from physical afflictions. I refuse to accept the belief their troubles are due to some failure to make a claim on their spiritual casualty insurance policy.

That said, there are people who suffer as a result of poor personal choices and/or misfortune. I'm not prepared to accept the notion folks who have it rough in life can fix it by claiming this questionable promise "all will be given to those who ask."

It seems bothersomely similar to that "unclaimed property" dealio the secretary of state runs in most states. IOW, we have some stuff with your name on it and you need to contact us to claim it. Or any number of innerweb scams informing "respectable and trustworthy" folk Nigerian riches await them if they'll just pony up a little personal identity info.;)

[Big Red Ron]

I like the guy. I also find it interesting that he doesn't show any crosses or saints or any religious symbols at his church.

It's "non denominational" to it's furthest extent.

[Ike]

he creeps me out.


so does his wife.

[StoopTroup]

Modern Day Phophets sure smell perty.

http://www.churchchannel.tv/watch/images/programs/joelandvic_osteen.jpg

[Big Red Ron]

Modern Day Phophets sure smell perty.

http://www.churchchannel.tv/watch/images/programs/joelandvic_osteen.jpg

I don't think anyone believes he a prophet. He certainly doesn't.

I think his appeal is that he harnesses all the good that could be derived from several different religions, sort of a "good Karma preacher."

He seems down right sane when compared to Jessie Jackson, Pat Robertson, Al Sharpton, and others in vogue these days.

This guy's harmless, IMHO. Religious popcorn, if you will.

[proud gonzo]

he creeps me out.


so does his wife.i was about to say the same thing.


http://www.baptiststandard.com/postnuke/pics/10_16_06/prosperity_osteen.jpg
creeps me the hell out...

[proud gonzo]

gah. does this disturb anyone else?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/22/28842113_bcc9ad8921_b.jpg

[proud gonzo]

bwahaha

http://theololgians.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/myblestlifenowremix.jpg

[jk the sooner fan]

i was under the general impression that anybody involved in religion disturbed you

[Veritas]

Give it a couple years. He'll get caught exercising his 'Mile High Club' membership with a female not his wife whilst aboard the ministry jet enroute to sell another book on how Jesus wants you to feel good and have money.

[SoonerStormchaser]

Back to Homey's original post...

You know, as ****ty as Star Trek V was, Shatner actually did make a point in it about these televangelists...and I think it applies to Osteen as well.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I don't have any problems with believing God wants me to have a nice life. Its just too out of proportion.

If God wanted you to have a million dollars what do you think He would want you to do with it? Osteen stops at the "God wants you to have" part instead of finishing off with "God wants you to give to the poor and the hurting".

Jesus while on this Earth was about helping people that nobody else cared for. This kind of preaching can turn the church inward, focusing on self instead of others like Jesus was.

I know there are some people convinced God wants them poor, sick, and miserable to be humble and thats ridiculous too. But I think this "slot machine gospel" is probably not something God is all too happy about

[Veritas]

I don't have any problems with believing God wants me to have a nice life. Its just too out of proportion.
The "Jesus wants you to prosper and have a good life" sales pitch works here in the States. I'd love to see Olsteen or any of his ilk try to sell that **** over in China, where professing Christianity can get you imprisoned, beaten or killed.

Does Jesus like Chinese Christians less than American Christians? Mmm...guess not. IIRC he said something about his being the same yesterday, today, forever, and he came to pay retribution for sin, which is theoretically the whole point of salvation.

But talking about retribution for sin doesn't quite bring in the donations and book sales.

[sanantoniosooner]

Being blessed is beyond finance.

[Veritas]

Being blessed is beyond finance.
Well, now you're just being silly, sweet cheeks.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The "Jesus wants you to prosper and have a good life" sales pitch works here in the States. I'd love to see Olsteen or any of his ilk try to sell that **** over in China, where professing Christianity can get you imprisoned, beaten or killed.

Does Jesus like Chinese Christians less than American Christians? Mmm...guess not. IIRC he said something about his being the same yesterday, today, forever, and he came to pay retribution for sin, which is theoretically the whole point of salvation.

But talking about retribution for sin doesn't quite bring in the donations and book sales.

It depends really on what your definition of good life is really.

Here, its a million dollar home with 5 cars for 3 people and everything laid at your feet.

In another part of the world, a good life may be living to the age of 20, or not getting aids..

Once again, I have no problem with God wanting us to have a good life. Its just what does God consider a good life?

[proud gonzo]

i was under the general impression that anybody involved in religion disturbed youwho are you talking to?

[jk the sooner fan]

you!

[KsSooner]

He pretty much inherited the huge church from his dad. I used to watch his dad occasionally a number of years ago on late night TV. Joel was being groomed to take over...

[proud gonzo]

you!then you must be bad at impressions.

[jk the sooner fan]

i do a great ross perot impression, you should see it

i could swear i read where you posted you didnt believe in god, which is fine

so you're saying that some preachers dont perturb you but others do?

[proud gonzo]

i do a great ross perot impression, you should see it

i could swear i read where you posted you didnt believe in god, which is fine

so you're saying that some preachers dont perturb you but others do?how would not believing in god equate to being perturbed by preachers or disturbed by anybody involved in religion?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

As a preacher, I am disturbed by religious people too

[Widescreen]

I missed the section of scripture where Jesus' disciples were all driving around in Escalades. I guess Jesus wants everyone except his disciples to be rich. :rolleyes: I have family members who believe in the prosperity gospel crap. I think some of them have learned some difficult lessons about it.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Its amazing the amounts of scripture taken out of context in this situation. The bible describes Jesus has having a nice robe and somehow they get he was wealthy out of that. I ve got a couple of nice suits but I m not rich.

[Widescreen]

I just watched a recent Osteen interview on Larry King on youtube and he pulled out the "God wants us all to be healthy" thing. This makes me very angry because I know people who would say that if you get sick and die, you just didn't have enough faith.

On a related note, if you haven't seen much of this guy, this performance could win Dancing with the Stars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfwYU2pmWYQ

[1stTimeCaller]

organized religon is a big business.

[sanantoniosooner]

That's why I attend a disorganized church.

[olevetonahill]

organized religon is a big business.
That seems to Be tellin the POOR , to send them your little bit of Monies you have and GOD will bless you with a New airplane .
Those *******s get rich off the folks that cant GO to church.
aw to hell with em all :mad:

[SoonerJack]

He is the reincarnation of Randolph Mantooth (any old school Emergency watchers out there?)

[Lott's Bandana]

bwahaha

http://theololgians.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/myblestlifenowremix.jpg



Ohhhh, come on.....that's the Tool Time guy.









.

[pb4ou]

Ohhhh, come on.....that's the Tool Time guy.

Very astute

:rolleyes:

[mdklatt]

I missed the section of scripture where Jesus' disciples were all driving around in Escalades. I guess Jesus wants everyone except his disciples to be rich. :rolleyes:

From a religious point of view, is there such a thing as "too rich"? If so, where is that line? Televangelists all have obscene amounts of money. Is that their just reward for doing "the Lord's work", or if they are true to their faith should the donate all of it charity?

[mdklatt]

Give it a couple years. He'll get caught exercising his 'Mile High Club' membership with a gay hooker whilst aboard the ministry jet enroute to sell another book on how Jesus wants you to feel good and have money.

That seem more likely given the recent news trends.

I guess if you're gonna sin, you might as well go all the way.

[proud gonzo]

they're like the same guy anyway :rolleyes:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1586216554.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpghttp://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5416/tn2timallen2so7.jpg

[stoops the eternal pimp]

From a religious point of view, is there such a thing as "too rich"? If so, where is that line? Televangelists all have obscene amounts of money. Is that their just reward for doing "the Lord's work", or if they are true to their faith should the donate all of it charity?


I dont know if its really about amounts of money as much as it is being full of greed. Not getting preachy but here is what Christian with money is supposed to be like
1 Timothy 6: 17-18
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

Verse 18. That they do good] That they relieve the wants of their fellow humans, according to the abundance which God has given them. The highest luxury a human being can enjoy on this side of the grave.

Rich in good works] That their good works may be as abundant as their riches.

Ready to distribute] That they give nothing through partiality or favour, but be guided in their distribution by the necessities of the objects presented to them; and that they confine not their charity at home, but scatter it abroad.

Willing to communicate] Bringing every poor person into a state of fellowship with themselves.

[Hamhock]

Ashamed of the Gospel by John Macarthur is a good read if you're interested in the Biblicalness of most modern day churches.

[Lott's Bandana]

He is the reincarnation of Randolph Mantooth (any old school Emergency watchers out there?)


http://www.quickpicturehost.com/images/qph-1194288825.jpg
http://www.quickpicturehost.com/images/qph-1194289270.jpg



"Squad 51...Rampart...etc, etc, ad infinitum..."








.

[Widescreen]

From a religious point of view, is there such a thing as "too rich"? If so, where is that line? Televangelists all have obscene amounts of money. Is that their just reward for doing "the Lord's work", or if they are true to their faith should the donate all of it charity?
Good question and I certainly can't be dogmatic about an answer. I don't have a problem with a minister having a certain amount of wealth although I can't really define "certain amount". If I feel like he's giving back a good percentage of what he's getting and he's not all about the money, I'm generally OK with it. You can usually identify pretty quickly when a minister is all about the money because they generally don't hide it. It's just a part of who they are.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Here is an example.

The pastor of the church I work in also is the CEO of a major corporation. The guy makes big bucks. He has a nice house in a nice neighborhood. He also drives a 9 year old Durango that has to go to the shop every other week and dresses like he just came off the farm when he s not working.

I cant tell you how many times I have witnessed him giving money to members or people in our neighborhood who are down on their luck. He purchased thousands of dollars worth of groceries a few weeks ago and went and parked in the worst neighborhood in McAlester to give the food away. One of the first things he told me was "I feel when money comes into my hand, God wants it to slide out of it into someone elses." When I got hurt in August and couldnt work, he showed up with a thousand dollar check right away without me asking or even acting like I needed help. I have no problem with the amount of money he makes even though there are people in the church who think he should have less than them, which is moronic.

On the other hand, there is another wealthy one here in town who is a bit different. He is a Joel Osteen disciple. Speaks like him, acts like him, even his wife looks like JOs wife. I have never heard a single person say anything he has ever done for someone on a personal level. There are people sitting on his church board that are known more making a dollar than being a Christian. Its such a status thing with them that I feel uncomfortable being around him. I feel like I am too poor to be in his presence. I have a friend who is a member of his church who lost his job and was having back surgery. He went to the pastor to see about getting help and he told them " Give more so you can get back more." In the meanwhile, he is driving a Hummer an his wife drives a Mercedes.

[mdklatt]

The pastor of the church I work in also is the CEO of a major corporation.

McAlester has a major corporation? Now I know you're lying. :D

[stoops the eternal pimp]

McAlester has a major corporation? Now I know you're lying. :D

I was waiting for that...

OK OK he s the warden at the prison..same thing:D

[The Maestro]

As far as what Osteen is paid...zero from his church. Lives off the public speaking and the book sales. I heard he got $15 million up front BEFORE he wrote his second book.

He tells easy stories for simpletons to understand. Nice guy. Doesn't seem to be corrupt. But if you grew up in church at all his message is on the scale of Barney or Teletubbies. I've stepped in puddles that were deeper.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

I know one thing...he has a big ol' church on the Southwest Freeway down here.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

He tells easy stories for simpletons to understand. Nice guy. Doesn't seem to be corrupt. But if you grew up in church at all his message is on the scale of Barney or Teletubbies. I've stepped in puddles that were deeper.

Exactly. And to each there own. I need to step back before I get judgemental here, because I know people that listen to him and really enjoy it. Its just not for me. I dont need a story teller

Seems like a nice guy. Corrupt..who knows.

[StoopTroup]

Maybe he'll buy up ORU.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

If you cant graduate from there, then buy it!

[Kels]

He is a 21st century version of Norman Vincent Peale. His gospel of optimisim makes you feel good. Not quite the perspective of believers in the New Testament however. Suffering, persecution, and trials were all major themes.

I have not yet heard Joel reconcile this historic reality of Christianity with his message. He is accountable for his ministry, not me. The only difficulty for me is that many will see Joel as the face of evangelicalism in the United States.

As an evangelical, he doesn't represent my beliefs.

[StoopTroup]

So is he considered Charismatic?

[Kels]

So is he considered Charismatic?

His dad left Southern Baptists in the 50s to join the Charismatic resurgence centered around Oral Roberts. Joel has distanced himself from that movement and would be much more comfortable with the likes of Robert Schuller than Ken Copeland.

[Big Red Ron]

Maybe he'll buy up ORU.That's brutal!

























































:D

[proud gonzo]

So is he considered Charismatic?yeah--must be his winning smile


bwahaha

[Blue]

yeah--must be his winning smile


bwahaha

[Ron Burgundy] Maybe you should sit the next few plays out[Ron Burgundy]

Your contempt is shining through...

Joel Osteen leaves out so much of the gospel it's pathetic. Great for those who need to be uplifted, but poisonous for those looking for truth.

He encourages reading the bible. If people do that, they'll discern a message that's right for them.

The avoidance on Larry King was Scary though, Widescreen. Reminds me of Bush recently saying, "We all worship the same God." (Christians, Muslims, and Jews)