$2.9M verdict against Phelps' dumb-a**

[OUDoc]

Jury Awards Grieving Father $2.9 Million in Verdict Against Military Funeral Protesters

BALTIMORE (Associated Press) -- A grieving father won a $2.9 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.

U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted the size of the award for compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court. The jury was to deliberate later on punitive damages.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

The church and three of its leaders _ the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 _ were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that the deaths of soldiers are due to the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

Their attorneys argued in closing statements Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

The judge said the church's financial statements, sealed earlier, could be released to the plaintiffs.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates fag enablers." Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.

http://oklahomacity.cox.net/cci/newsnational/national?_mode=view&_state=maximized&view=article&id=D8SKEQOG0&_action=validatearticle

[OCUDad]

There is no punishment on Earth too severe for these people.

[Viking Kitten]

I think these Westboro Baptist Church people are just about the lowest form of scum known to man. For better or worse though, I also think there are some First Amendment implications here. Doubt this will stand on appeal.

What I would like to do is figure out exactly when these people have their weekly service, then get a parade permit and stage the biggest, loudest, most fabulous gay pride parade ever right down their street. Complete with hot gays in Speedos, mobile disco balls, butches on Harleys, the works. That would be awesome.

[Widescreen]

When all is said and done, I hope this puts these people in complete destitution. Few things would make me happier.

[SoonerBBall]

I think these Westboro Baptist Church people are just about the lowest form of scum known to man. For better or worse though, I also think there are some First Amendment implications here. Doubt this will stand on appeal.

IANAL, but i'm fairly sure the First Amendment protects you from the government infringing on your speech. It doesn't protect you from being the target of a lawsuit from a private citizen claiming damages because you were being a *********.

[Widescreen]

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Bennett instructed jurors at the start of testimony Tuesday that the First Amendment protection of free speech has limits, including vulgar, offensive and shocking statements. Bennett said the jurors must decide "whether the defendant's actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, whether they were extreme and outrageous, and whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection."
This was critical to the outcome.

[Viking Kitten]

I am not pretending to be a First Amendment scholar, but I think if a state or federal court orders you to pay money to a private citizen because of something you said, then the government is infringing on your speech.

[Viking Kitten]

This was critical to the outcome.

Doesn't sound like he instructed the jury that Phelps could reasonably argue that his demonstrations cross over into the arena of political speech, which has more protection because of strict scrutiny. That's why I don't think it will stand on appeal.

[mdklatt]

I am not pretending to be a First Amendment scholar, but I think if a state or federal court orders you to pay money to a private citizen because of something you said, then the government is infringing on your speech.

What the government should do is not infringe upon anybody's right to express himself by beating the ever-lovin' crap out of these ****wits at their next "protest".

[Rhino]

Actually it's been upped to:


$10.9 million



The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned later in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/31/funeral.protests.ap/index.html)

[FirstandGoal]

Okay, first amendment arguments aside....

I am still trying to figure out how in the heck someone can actually be stupid enough to link soldiers dying in a foreign country in service to their country and homosexuals.

Logic much? :confused:

[jeremy885]

This was critical to the outcome.


Like I said in another thread, these instructions will get this case tossed on appeal. While I think these people should get *** raped by gays when they are burning in hell, I would still find them not guilty because of their right to protest under the first amendment.

This suit seems to open up any group that protests to lawsuits from people who disagree with their opinions.

[OklahomaTuba]

These people deserve much much worse.

[JohnnyMack]

What I would like to do is figure out exactly when these people have their weekly service, then get a parade permit and stage the biggest, loudest, most fabulous gay pride parade ever right down their street. Complete with hot gays in Speedos, mobile disco balls, butches on Harleys, the works. That would be awesome.

Peem SicEm, I'm sure he's available.

[StoopTroup]

Okay, first amendment arguments aside....

I am still trying to figure out how in the heck someone can actually be stupid enough to link soldiers dying in a foreign country in service to their country and homosexuals.

Logic much? :confused:
You need to read the pamphlets and brochures. ;)

If they get all that dough....

It's really gonna put a dent in the keg fund.

[Okla-homey]

On a somewhat related aside, I maintain Fred Phelps himself must be a closeted peter-puffer of the worst sort. I base this notion on my observation the most ardent and open homo-haters are usually just disgusted with the fact they themselves are queer and refuse to accept that aspect of who they are.

That personal frustration manifests itself in outward signs of self-righteousness and loudly expressed hatred for people who are openly homo.
There may be a bit of jealousy in the mix too. Put another way, "since I have to repress my faggery, I'm gonna make life hell for those who choose not to do so."

In short, in the words of the Bard of Avon, "methinks [Fred Phelps and his ilk] protests too much."

[VeeJay]

Complete with hot gays in Speedos, mobile disco balls, butches on Harleys, the works. That would be awesome.

Blast "YMCA" the whole time.

I think one of the most disturbing things I've seen was one of those cats dressed in biker gear, the handlebar moustache, that little leather motorcycle riding cap, and chaps with the arse cut out (obviously ready for some action). And bring along some Marilyn Monroe imposters.

[Viking Kitten]

On a somewhat related aside, I maintain Fred Phelps himself must be a closeted peter-puffer of the worst sort. I base this notion on my observation the most ardent and open homo-haters are usually just disgusted with the fact they themselves are queer and refuse to accept that aspect of who they are.

That personal frustration manifests itself in outward signs of self-righteousness and loudly expressed hatred for people who are openly homo.
There may be a bit of jealousy in the mix too. Put another way, "since I have to repress my faggery, I'm gonna make life hell for those who choose not to do so."

In short, in the words of the Bard of Avon, "methinks [Fred Phelps and his ilk] protests too much."

Heh. We discussed this at work yesterday, and I said the exact same thing, complete with Wild Bill's quote.

[usmc-sooner]

On a somewhat related aside, I maintain Fred Phelps himself must be a closeted peter-puffer of the worst sort. I base this notion on my observation the most ardent and open homo-haters are usually just disgusted with the fact they themselves are queer and refuse to accept that aspect of who they are.

That personal frustration manifests itself in outward signs of self-righteousness and loudly expressed hatred for people who are openly homo.
There may be a bit of jealousy in the mix too. Put another way, "since I have to repress my faggery, I'm gonna make life hell for those who choose not to do so."

In short, in the words of the Bard of Avon, "methinks [Fred Phelps and his ilk] protests too much."

I think so too.

[JohnnyMack]

I think I'm gay too.

Not a real shocker.

[usmc-sooner]

Not a real shocker.

do you mean the shocker:D

[JohnnyMack]

http://www.corruptfibers.com/images/products/shocker_tshirt.jpg

[handcrafted]

What's really sad is that because Westboro is an independent church, their not subject to any discipline because of their actions. If they were part of the SBC they'd get thrown out on their ear. If they were part of a denomination with church courts, the leaders would be excommunicated. But because they're independent (and under the law you can call yourself a church of whatever you want), there's no accountability.

As far as the first amendment goes, it doesn't protect "fighting words" or actions that are intended to cause severe emotional distress. That will be the determination that the appellate court has to make.