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Widescreen
10/26/2007, 12:59 PM
SiT's thread about his anniversary got me thinking about this. I believe one of the main problems our society has now is the lack of a stable home. When I got married, I made a life commitment and I still feel that way nearly 17 years later. Why do you think divorce has become so commonplace?

OUDoc
10/26/2007, 01:01 PM
Most people are immature selfish a**holes?
That's my idea, anyway.

rufnek05
10/26/2007, 01:01 PM
because people don't want to work on their problems.

silverwheels
10/26/2007, 01:02 PM
People just get tired of each others' **** more easily these days and don't have the patience to work things out. Or they get married without thinking it through and surprise! Your spouse isn't someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, but you never thought of that in the first place.

King Crimson
10/26/2007, 01:02 PM
because wimmin's are uppity.

and the internet.

OUDoc
10/26/2007, 01:04 PM
Because people don't wear enough hats.

badger
10/26/2007, 01:04 PM
because people don't want to work on their problems.
Good point! People like more instant gratification now than ever. If people still had to churn their own butter instead of pay a few cents for a stick, perhaps people would be a little more patient.

But when it's so easy to :pop:, when you start getting :mad: it's so much easier to just sign the papers and try again a few dozen times.

crawfish
10/26/2007, 01:05 PM
I think it's competing values: most of us still believe in getting married, but popular culture (hollywood) pushes individuality and the idea that "you can have it all". It leaves many young couples with the impression that if things get tough the best thing to do is to get out.

I can guarantee, EVERY marriage has tough times. I've been married 18 years and more than a few times wondered if I'd be married the next morning...but we've stuck it out and have a better relationship now than ever.

Sooner in Tampa
10/26/2007, 01:08 PM
I honestly believe that it takes two people who WANT to be married and stay married.
My wife and I are with Widescreen, we made a committment to each other. There have been some down times...and I mean DOWN times...BUT both of decided that we still loved each other and that our problems could be worked out.
Compromise is the key...sometimes is it better to be wrong and quiet than to stand the high ground about rightousness.

royalfan5
10/26/2007, 01:11 PM
Because some people feel they should be married because it is expected of them.

IB4OU2
10/26/2007, 01:11 PM
Marriage is always a work in-progress, never take anything fore granted...after 30 years i'm still learning.

Sooner in Tampa
10/26/2007, 01:13 PM
Marriage is always a work in-progress, never take anything fore granted...after 30 years i'm still learning.Here here...that is another key.

"Marriage is peaks and Valleys"....Alan Alda in "Four Seasons"

proud gonzo
10/26/2007, 01:16 PM
SiT's thread about his anniversary got me thinking about this. I believe one of the main problems our society has now is the lack of a stable home. When I got married, I made a life commitment and I still feel that way nearly 17 years later. Why do you think divorce has become so commonplace?people are tards.

SoonerBOI
10/26/2007, 01:16 PM
They probabaly married the wrong person. For me marriage goes beyond love.

Ike
10/26/2007, 01:26 PM
I think it's competing values: most of us still believe in getting married, but popular culture (hollywood) pushes individuality and the idea that "you can have it all". It leaves many young couples with the impression that if things get tough the best thing to do is to get out.


I concur.

Lets face it, getting married immediately puts constraints on the direction your life will take. Some people have a very difficult time reconciling this with the notion that they can do whatever they want to with their life. Bringing another person into your life inherently means yielding some control of your life to that other person. Many times, that can be a good thing as 2 heads are often better than one. However, I think a lot of people take the "I can do whatever I want to whenever I want to do it" notion a little too far, and then are unable to think about the way that their choices impact their partners.

We've become a very selfish culture, which doesn't lend itself well to the idea of permanent partnerships...Media/pop culture is partly to blame, but lets face it, the underlying causes stretch much deeper than that. Capitalism inherently breeds some degree of selfishness through the "anything to get ahead" mentality that it takes to get ahead in this system. Kids nowadays believe that they too can become a fat cat, primarily because capitalism can only stay alive if each successive generation believes this at some point, but don't realize that a) it's not so easy, and b)its even harder to do so and keep your morality in tact. (n.b.: Don't think I hate capitalism because of that statement, I kind of like it...but as with anything, you have to take the good with the bad). We've become a society where often times, money is more important than relationships (friendships, marriages, etc). When that is the case, is it really surprising that divorce happens as often as it does here?

yermom
10/26/2007, 01:57 PM
well, if you can just leave your husband and get a fat check in the process, why not ;)

handcrafted
10/26/2007, 01:58 PM
No clue, really. It's hard for me to fathom because when I made the lifelong commitment to my wife, I meant it.

Know what I think it is? I think getting married is too easy.

Howzit
10/26/2007, 02:23 PM
There is a lot of truth to the selfishness factor being so prevalent in our society, and I think that's the easy answer for divorces that happen quickly, or within a few years.

But I'm not so sure I agree with relationships that span decades. People change. Relationships change. Sometimes two people that are married decades later aren't the same two people that got married. Sometimes it can be worked out, sometimes it can't. If a couple has grown and find their paths diverging, does it makes sense to try and hold things together, even if neither is happy, and spend more decades in a bad situation?

Sometimes **** happens.

TexasSooner01
10/26/2007, 02:37 PM
There is a lot of truth to the selfishness factor being so prevalent in our society, and I think that's the easy answer for divorces that happen quickly, or within a few years.

But I'm not so sure I agree with relationships that span decades. People change. Relationships change. Sometimes two people that are married decades later aren't the same two people that got married. Sometimes it can be worked out, sometimes it can't. If a couple has grown and find their paths diverging, does it makes sense to try and hold things together, even if neither is happy, and spend more decades in a bad situation?

Sometimes **** happens.


OMG!!! Howzit being serious!!! I nevar saw this comming!!! :texan:

;)

IronSooner
10/26/2007, 02:37 PM
My grandpa used to hack off my mom by saying it was women's fault. But I think in some ways that's right. Women aren't property anymore, they're generally equals. And they know this.

I seriously doubt there's a higher incidents of cheating, or unhappiness, in marriages now versus 100 years ago. But the decision making is altered since the consequences of divorce are different.

So two things at the heart of it all - more individualism now, and less stigma. Women don't have to put up with cheating husbands, and without fear of ostracism, can take off. Or vice versa. Like everyone's said, there's a growing sense of "I have to do what's best for me" out there, and people aren't as willing to let go of that, hence they more easily jettison marriages with which they aren't satisfied.

TexasSooner01
10/26/2007, 02:41 PM
Many times people get married too young, too. They dont understand that a marriage takes 2 people giving 100% all the time. Total complete honesty is one of the keys to keeping a marriage strong. Sometimes the truth hurts, but you work through it.

jeremy885
10/26/2007, 02:47 PM
My grandpa used to hack off my mom by saying it was women's fault. But I think in some ways that's right. Women aren't property anymore, they're generally equals. And they know this.

I seriously doubt there's a higher incidents of cheating, or unhappiness, in marriages now versus 100 years ago. But the decision making is altered since the consequences of divorce are different.

So two things at the heart of it all - more individualism now, and less stigma. Women don't have to put up with cheating husbands, and without fear of ostracism, can take off. Or vice versa. Like everyone's said, there's a growing sense of "I have to do what's best for me" out there, and people aren't as willing to let go of that, hence they more easily jettison marriages with which they aren't satisfied.

yep, that and Jaux's post sum it up.

crawfish
10/26/2007, 03:34 PM
There is a lot of truth to the selfishness factor being so prevalent in our society, and I think that's the easy answer for divorces that happen quickly, or within a few years.

But I'm not so sure I agree with relationships that span decades. People change. Relationships change. Sometimes two people that are married decades later aren't the same two people that got married. Sometimes it can be worked out, sometimes it can't. If a couple has grown and find their paths diverging, does it makes sense to try and hold things together, even if neither is happy, and spend more decades in a bad situation?

Sometimes **** happens.


You still haven't told her you're gay now, have you?

JohnnyMack
10/26/2007, 03:37 PM
You still haven't told her you're gay now, have you?

When are you two going fishing again?

soonervegas
10/26/2007, 03:39 PM
Which of these is worse:

(Brother)Divorcing someone you rushed into marriage with and remarrying later on down the road with someone your are happy with. (or)

(Grandparent)"Working on it" and being misreable your entire life, sleeping in seperate beds, etc.

I have seen both of these instances in my family and option A was by far the right move, but grandparent was convinced brother was going straight to hades.

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
10/26/2007, 03:40 PM
I think sometimes (not always) people see it as an easy out. I had a friend whose husband said he wanted a divorce. She begged him to try counseling, but nope he was done. She was willing to put whatever it took into saving the marriage but a-hole was done.

For marriage to work, you have to go with the good and the bad. Marriages fail when one or the other or both quit working at it.

But who am I to have a say in this. I'm not even a wife. . .a wife of a husband.

Widescreen
10/26/2007, 03:46 PM
But who am I to have a say in this. I'm not even a wife. . .a wife of a husband.
THAT'S GARBAGE! :D

My sister is one of those people who had a difficult time picking guys. She married her 1st husband because she got pregnant. He was an a$$ so they divorced (some of you long-time Tulsa-ites would know her 1st husband's name). Her 2nd husband physically (at least) abused the daughter from marriage #1 so my sister divorced him. Her 3rd husband is an alcoholic and they nearly divorced over it but he's been sober for a year now. He actually adopted the child (and husband #1 was so apathetic that he didn't even bother to contest the adoption). She's really a neat lady and I feel bad that her life has been more difficult than it needed to be - although much of what happened to her was a result of poor life choices on her part - she acknowledges this. I'm pretty sure her situation isn't unique.

soonerhubs
10/26/2007, 03:48 PM
There are studies that give a number of reasons to high rates of divorce. The ease of divorce, the ease of marriage, and the increased life expectancy is another (till death do us part was shorter commitment back in the day ;) ).

There are couples who figure if it doesn't come easy it wasn't meant to be, and they have these unrealistic Movie and Romantic perspectives on what marriage relationships should be.

Many times people marry out of convenience, and then they divorce when it's inconvenient. Most remarriages are based on better compatibility criteria, but the mixing of yours, mine, and ours makes divorce another list of high probabilities.

Divorce rates have actually stabilized as of late, but alot of that could be from fewer folks getting married.

Long short? There is no simple answer to why they are so prevalent. It's a list of contributing variables that correlate with high divorce rates.

My mentor says many divorces occur because of lack of relationship education before and during the first year of marriage.

soonerhubs
10/26/2007, 03:50 PM
If you want good reads on this, pick up anything by John Gottman. Hastings and Borders should have his work.

sanantoniosooner
10/26/2007, 04:00 PM
I'll repeat what's been stated more eloquently in the thread already.

Selfishness.

And to comment regarding Howzit's assertion of just growing apart...I would suggest that if you are growing apart, you have made choices that lead you in different directions. Maybe not even intentionally. But if you grow apart it didn't just happen. If you aren't growing together, then you are growing apart by default. And that still falls back to ego or selfishness one the part of one or both.

soonerhubs
10/26/2007, 04:10 PM
LINKY (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684802414/liverealcom/103-4682998-1255826?v=glance&s=books&st=*), and Yes selfishness is another reason.

Hmmm...
"* Wives who make sour facial expressions when their husbands talk are likely to be separated within four years"

Widescreen
10/26/2007, 04:13 PM
LINKY (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684802414/liverealcom/103-4682998-1255826?v=glance&s=books&st=*), and Yes selfishness is another reason.

Hmmm...
"* Wives who make sour facial expressions when their husbands talk are likely to be separated within four years"
What if their face is always sour?

soonerhubs
10/26/2007, 04:14 PM
What if their face is always sour?
4 days? ;)
or 4 decades?
Which ever is considered more painful. :D

KC//CRIMSON
10/26/2007, 04:36 PM
Because some people feel they should be married because it is expected of them.

Word. Society is overrated.

Howzit
10/26/2007, 04:38 PM
I'll repeat what's been stated more eloquently in the thread already.

Selfishness.

And to comment regarding Howzit's assertion of just growing apart...I would suggest that if you are growing apart, you have made choices that lead you in different directions. Maybe not even intentionally. But if you grow apart it didn't just happen. If you aren't growing together, then you are growing apart by default. And that still falls back to ego or selfishness one the part of one or both.
The only thing I "asserted" is that sometimes people change. If you're saying that this only happens because people make selfish choices, I couldn't disagree more. That's the only possibility? That's the only alternative to 2 people looking at each other years down the line and wondering where the person they married went? They're selfish?

If it's not intentional, is it still selfish?

sanantoniosooner
10/26/2007, 04:43 PM
It's a concious decision to walk a path together. If you find that one day you've grown apart it's most likely because you've been following different paths for quite some time now. I think it's all selfishness, but there is a passive selfishness that just lets things happen and an aggressive selfishness that instigates things. I don't mean this to sound cold to anyone who's been through this stuff.

I've got several relatives that didn't "tend" to their marriage and then were looking to blame all sorts of other things for it falling apart.

soonerhubs
10/26/2007, 04:48 PM
Blaming Divorce exclusively on Selfishness is like blaming the prevalence of my fat Gut only on McDonalds, when Burger King, Braums, and a multitude of other junk food sources (including my own lifestyle choices) contributed as well. It's a multivariate systemic model that research supports.

KC//CRIMSON
10/26/2007, 04:49 PM
I think it's all selfishness, but there is a passive selfishness that just lets things happen and an aggressive selfishness that instigates things.

that's just crazy. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/gen3sooner/smilies/banana.gif

Widescreen
10/26/2007, 04:50 PM
I'm going to choose to be passively selfish. I like flying under the radar.

Mongo
10/26/2007, 04:52 PM
hmmm...
"* Wives who make sour facial expressions when their husbands talk are likely to be separated within four years"

not if you smack that smug look off her face the first time she pulls that ****














:D

crawfish
10/26/2007, 04:53 PM
Blaming Divorce exclusively on Selfishness is like blaming the prevalence of my fat Gut only on McDonalds, when Burger King, Braums, and a multitude of other junk food sources (including my own lifestyle choices) contributed as well. It's a multivariate systemic model that research supports.

How about if I blamed it on your lack of self-control? ;)

The question isn't "why does divorce happen", it's "why does divorce happen so often".

soonerhubs
10/26/2007, 04:58 PM
How about if I blamed it on your lack of self-control? ;)

The question isn't "why does divorce happen", it's "why does divorce happen so often".
Take what I stated on the Microlevel, and apply it to the Macro level taking into consideration culture, norms, policy, and Socioeconomic Contexts, and you have the answer.


And yes, I blame myself exclusively for the Gut, but El Nino gets a close second. I'm a Family Scientist, not a Nutritionist. :D

Howzit
10/26/2007, 05:02 PM
How about if I blamed it on your lack of self-control? ;)

The question isn't "why does divorce happen", it's "why does divorce happen so often".

It's because everyone is selfish. Can't you read?

stoops the eternal pimp
10/26/2007, 05:03 PM
There is a lot of divorce because there are a lot of marriages

Widescreen
10/26/2007, 05:04 PM
You people stop fighting. I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE. I WANT OUT!@!!!!@@

sanantoniosooner
10/26/2007, 05:06 PM
selfishness is a pretty wide open term. A LOT of things can fall under that category depending on how you want to view those things.

I think a lot of people take the word selfishness to mean being an ***.

sanantoniosooner
10/26/2007, 05:07 PM
People get fat because of selfishness to.

Sometimes even shellfishness.

soonerhubs
10/26/2007, 05:09 PM
People get fat because of selfishness to.

Sometimes even shellfishness.
Mines because of Shells and Cheese. :)

KC//CRIMSON
10/26/2007, 05:10 PM
I WANT OUT!@!!!!@@

Quit being selfish!

sanantoniosooner
10/26/2007, 05:17 PM
for the record......

My parents divorced after 26 years of marriage.
My aunt and uncle divorced the following year after 21 years of marriage.
And another aunt and uncle divorced the year after that after 28 years of marriage.

This was a partial factor in me moving my family to San Antonio because the crap just kept compounding and everyone else's life revolved around this stuff. We needed some space. Each one got progressively nastier also.

ChickSoonerFan
10/26/2007, 09:06 PM
I doubt anyone who says or thinks divorce is the easy way out, has ever been through one.

After 9 years of marriage and two children, there was nothing easy about divorcing my husband. There was nothing easy about reaching the decision, nothing easy about telling the children, nothing easy about spending money on lawyers and to get out of debt to walk away free and clear, nothing easy about fighting for custody and child support, nothing easy about swearing in before the judge, and nothing easy about it since then.

Divorce sucks, even when it is the right decision, which I feel very very strongly in my case it was, or I would not have done it. Everything about it sucks, but sometimes, it IS the right decision. Sometimes EVERYONE involved, including the children, are better off. Sometimes, going through it is not a selfish decision at all, but the better decision. Not always, but sometimes.

Sometimes leaving a marriage that can not be repaired, or due to behavior on one of both parts that is inappropriate and does not appear to be headed for change, is the best thing for the children. There is no arguing that a long lasting marriage that is strong and loving is ideal, but I would argue that an unhappy marriage where people have grown apart and love no longer exists, that continues to exist due to obligation or fear, fear of what others think, fear of the trauma of it all, fear of the unknown, where there does not appear to be any desire or effort to improve the situation, is just as harmful and traumatic as a divorce, and just as much as an "easy way out" as anything.

I know what I was teaching my girls when I got a divorce, I was teaching them that there is certain behavior that you do not have to tolerate, that if they were in my situation, it is a STRONG thing to do to walk away, not a selfish thing.

I am sure some of you will disagree.

But I always tell friends who are considering divorce that divorce sucks, if there is ANY way to avoid it, do. Do everything you can first. And if you reach that decision and know it is the right thing to do, then know that there is happiness on the other side.

TUSooner
10/26/2007, 09:10 PM
Most people are immature selfish a**holes?
That's my idea, anyway.
That's it!
Lock the thread.

Mongo
10/26/2007, 09:16 PM
...there is certain behavior that you do not have to tolerate...

I am just using this statement in general, but I think most would agree that physical abuse or infidelity are unacceptable and are justifiable grounds for divorce. Especially if that abuse leaks over into the children.

phead903
10/26/2007, 09:19 PM
I have to agree with Chick - it is not something to be taken lightly, but in certain instances, it is the best eventuality for all concerned. I am now much better friends with my ex and more importantly, a much better father to my daughters than I was when we were married.

I realize that my divorce is an anomaly, in that my ex and I get along much better now than when we were married. We are both in agreement about what is best for the girls and it seems that they are both in better environments than when we were married.

We married late (I was almost 30 and she was 31), so we didn't marry young, but we did grow apart. She is now happy with her husband and my daughters are healthy and well adjusted.

It's never easy, but if the parties both work toward the best interests of the children, it can be a better eventuality.

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
10/27/2007, 08:49 AM
I'm going to add failure to communicate and letting things slide in a dating relationship as other reasons people get divorces. Some examples:

1) "I want kids, he doesn't but he didn't tell me that before we were married." Maybe not outright, but he called you "baby crazy" when your nephew was born. I could read between the lines.

2) "I thought she would change once we were married." You thought she was going to change her lifestyle entirely and not enjoy the same activities just because she got married?

Sometimes, it would seem, divorces happen because the parties involved had no business getting hitched in the beginning.

soonerhubs
10/27/2007, 10:31 AM
There are alot of insightful posts in this thread, and I agree with Chick as well as SBSB. I wish nothing but the best for all families.

StoopTroup
10/27/2007, 10:42 AM
If I ever go back to get my Masters in Sociology, I'm going to do a paper on a theory I have. It has to do with the relationship between how breast implants cause Women to lose their mind.

OUDoc
10/27/2007, 10:45 AM
2) "I thought she would change once we were married." You thought she was going to change her lifestyle entirely and not enjoy the same activities just because she got married?

This is among one of the dumbest excuses I frequently hear. WHY did you think they would change? WHY do you want them to change? Didn't you like who they are before marriage? I'd be more scared that my spouse might change, I married the version I liked. Implying you want them to change means you didn't like the one you married, doesn't it?

And the "immature selfish *******s" comment I made is a response to why they are so prevalent, some divorces are for the best.

usmc-sooner
10/27/2007, 10:53 AM
I think people get married on impulse a lot. I think a lot of people are in love with the idea of being married instead of finding the right partner.

sooneron
10/27/2007, 10:58 AM
I think it's competing values: most of us still believe in getting married, but popular culture (hollywood) pushes individuality and the idea that "you can have it all". It leaves many young couples with the impression that if things get tough the best thing to do is to get out.


:rolleyes: :confused:

Uh, yeah, blame hollywood. It must be hollywood's fault that my parents along with 40% of other couples were getting divorced back in the 70's.

A lot of people are lazy. A lot of people are selfish. A lot of people just realize that they can't get along and feel it's best for everyone.

On second thought, my Dad loves movies....




:rolleyes:

usmc-sooner
10/27/2007, 11:08 AM
:rolleyes: :confused:

Uh, yeah, blame hollywood. It must be hollywood's fault that my parents along with 40% of other couples were getting divorced back in the 70's.

A lot of people are lazy. A lot of people are selfish. A lot of people just realize that they can't get along and feel it's best for everyone.

On second thought, my Dad loves movies....




:rolleyes:

I do think Hollywood tends to project there low morals on to us, but it really speaks volumes of how we get caught up in star gazing, instead of making our own minds up.

Preservation Parcels
10/27/2007, 11:42 AM
There is one line of thought that our system of dating is practice for divorce. Children are teased from a young age about having a girlfriend/boyfriend and pressured by their friends and the media to pair up early. They stay together for as long as their egos are fed or their perceived needs are met. When they inevitably break up, usually in some dramatic fashion, their circles of friends rally around with support. The drama, antagonism, and polarization are part of the process. Then, it's off to find someone else more enticing, and the cycle continues.

Back in the days when a young man set his sights on a partner for life, he would ask her father for permission to court her. If all consented, they would prepare for a future together.

Joshua Harris wrote a book a few years ago titled, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He talked about a bride's dream on the morning of her wedding. In it, her groom was standing at the alter along with everyone with whom he'd had a relationship. Each held a different part of his affections that he had given them over the years, and the bride was rather upset to see all the parts of himself that he had not saved for her. Then, she realized that she was being trailed up the aisle by a cadre' of her former boyfriends, and she woke up sad.

Last year, we went to a wedding where the couple had waited for each other, and they had their first kiss at the conclusion of the ceremony. They just had their first child last month (10 months after the wedding.) They're building a great family, business, and life together with the support of a lot of family and friends. It will be interesting to see how things go over time.

All this is to say that I don't know why divorce is so prevalent in our society. It wasn't until my college roommate's parents divorced that I even met someone who was divorced. It just wasn't part of my sheltered, happy upbringing. I wish it wasn't so common today as I see how their parents' choices are affecting the 18-20 year olds I counsel. The stability that I enjoyed is becoming very rare, and it shows in the uncertainty of their generation.

I took a gentleman to his wife in the hospital for their 68th anniversary. When we walked into the room, he started flirting with her, and I left them alone. Later, as we were leaving, she looked up at him and said, "I still like you." It struck me how important it is to make the choice to like my husband, not just love him. Every day, I thank God for a husband who still takes my breath away after 26 years.

handcrafted
10/27/2007, 01:37 PM
Word. Society is overrated.

So's human nature.

Personally, I blame 1TC. It's the carpet urination differential that's gone up. :D

jk the sooner fan
10/27/2007, 01:49 PM
There is a lot of truth to the selfishness factor being so prevalent in our society, and I think that's the easy answer for divorces that happen quickly, or within a few years.

But I'm not so sure I agree with relationships that span decades. People change. Relationships change. Sometimes two people that are married decades later aren't the same two people that got married. Sometimes it can be worked out, sometimes it can't. If a couple has grown and find their paths diverging, does it makes sense to try and hold things together, even if neither is happy, and spend more decades in a bad situation?

Sometimes **** happens.

thanks for getting it

a few pie in the sky responses........predictable

jk the sooner fan
10/27/2007, 01:52 PM
I'll repeat what's been stated more eloquently in the thread already.

Selfishness.

And to comment regarding Howzit's assertion of just growing apart...I would suggest that if you are growing apart, you have made choices that lead you in different directions. Maybe not even intentionally. But if you grow apart it didn't just happen. If you aren't growing together, then you are growing apart by default. And that still falls back to ego or selfishness one the part of one or both.

i agree with you on alot of things

this wouldnt be one of them

jk the sooner fan
10/27/2007, 01:54 PM
I doubt anyone who says or thinks divorce is the easy way out, has ever been through one.

After 9 years of marriage and two children, there was nothing easy about divorcing my husband. There was nothing easy about reaching the decision, nothing easy about telling the children, nothing easy about spending money on lawyers and to get out of debt to walk away free and clear, nothing easy about fighting for custody and child support, nothing easy about swearing in before the judge, and nothing easy about it since then.

Divorce sucks, even when it is the right decision, which I feel very very strongly in my case it was, or I would not have done it. Everything about it sucks, but sometimes, it IS the right decision. Sometimes EVERYONE involved, including the children, are better off. Sometimes, going through it is not a selfish decision at all, but the better decision. Not always, but sometimes.

Sometimes leaving a marriage that can not be repaired, or due to behavior on one of both parts that is inappropriate and does not appear to be headed for change, is the best thing for the children. There is no arguing that a long lasting marriage that is strong and loving is ideal, but I would argue that an unhappy marriage where people have grown apart and love no longer exists, that continues to exist due to obligation or fear, fear of what others think, fear of the trauma of it all, fear of the unknown, where there does not appear to be any desire or effort to improve the situation, is just as harmful and traumatic as a divorce, and just as much as an "easy way out" as anything.

I know what I was teaching my girls when I got a divorce, I was teaching them that there is certain behavior that you do not have to tolerate, that if they were in my situation, it is a STRONG thing to do to walk away, not a selfish thing.

I am sure some of you will disagree.

But I always tell friends who are considering divorce that divorce sucks, if there is ANY way to avoid it, do. Do everything you can first. And if you reach that decision and know it is the right thing to do, then know that there is happiness on the other side.

exactly

my divorce was sheer hell - i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy

FirstandGoal
10/27/2007, 02:20 PM
I have read this thread twice now and had to think hard if I even wanted to respond. Being divorced not once but three times, reading this thread and seeing answers such as 'laziness' and 'selfishness' really cut deep to the bone.

I really do think that a big part of the problem was 'complete inability to judge character' on my part and I think that happens to a lot more of us than we are willing to admit. My first marriage ended when I found myself running out of our apartment in the middle of the night after I had just escaped husband #1 coming after me after he had just tried to strangle me because I had finally confronted him about his abusive behavior. I was lucky to get out of that one intact and don't regret for one moment leaving that relationship.

My second marriage ended whenever my husband and father of my children came home and told me that he was moving out into his own apartment and was not coming back. This was after I had begged him for over a year to go to marriage counseling with me and after I had already forgiven him one affair and was trying my best to hold the pieces together and do everything I could for my children and my marriage. Three weeks later he had already moved in the employee of his that he had been having an affair with and had married her almost 6 months to the day our divorce was final. He had made his decision and there was not one thing I could do about it.

My third marriage ended when I got the news that husband #3 had cleaned out every single joint account we had, ran up every credit card we had to the max and knocked up another mother on my son's soccer team who he had been having an affair with.

Each time the experience was something straight from hell that I would not wish on my worst enemy. In addition to dealing with the bull****, I also get to carry around the stigma of being a single divorced mom.

I have pretty much decided that the only way I am ever going to be married again is if God really really wants me to be married and throws somebody out in front of me and smacks me in the head with a few signs as well. I have not had [nor do I have any desire to have] a single date since my last divorce almost 3 years ago. I don't see that trend changing any time in the next few decades.


For everyone out there who has been blessed enough to have a spouse that they can share a wonderful marriage with, you have my congratulations, but I sincerely hope you realize how absolutely lucky you are to have found someone out there in the world who doesn't treat you like ****

Some of us didn't get that lucky.
And its not cause we are selfish, or lazy, or any other crap.


/rant

sitzpinkler
10/27/2007, 02:42 PM
I do think Hollywood tends to project there low morals on to us, but it really speaks volumes of how we get caught up in star gazing, instead of making our own minds up.

anybody who is small-minded enough to let movies or television shows affect their choices in life is more than deserving of the bad results those choices will bring

it's not Hollywood's fault that some people are too stupid to distinguish between fantasy and reality

sanantoniosooner
10/27/2007, 04:38 PM
Selfish people are touchy too. ;)

sanantoniosooner
10/27/2007, 04:43 PM
And its not cause we are selfish, or lazy, or any other crap.
/rant
From your description of your personal situations it sounds like your prior spouses were selfish to me.

Maybe people think I'm saying that both parties are selfish. It could be one or both. If you were asking to go to counseling and the spouse refused I think it's pretty clear cut who was being selfish.

Frozen Sooner
10/27/2007, 04:45 PM
One reason divorce is prevalent in our society because women are more financially independent than they used to be.

Before, a woman was financially dependent on a man and would be reduced to abject poverty if she left-along with being socially ostracized. Not so much the case anymore. Which is a good thing.

Given a choice between easy divorce and women staying in abusive or loveless relationships because they lack the financial means to leave, I'll take divorce with a double helping of annulment.

This is not meant to imply that this is the only cause of divorce or that all divorcees were victims of abuse.

FirstandGoal
10/27/2007, 05:43 PM
From your description of your personal situations it sounds like your prior spouses were selfish to me.

Maybe people think I'm saying that both parties are selfish. It could be one or both. If you were asking to go to counseling and the spouse refused I think it's pretty clear cut who was being selfish.

I agree

It only makes sense that one of the parties will be selfish but people have been the same for a long time and selfishness is not something new.

The original question is very interesting and has a sparked a great discussion with lots of merit.


One reason divorce is prevalent in our society because women are more financially independent than they used to be.

Before, a woman was financially dependent on a man and would be reduced to abject poverty if she left-along with being socially ostracized. Not so much the case anymore. Which is a good thing.

Win :D

jk the sooner fan
10/27/2007, 05:44 PM
some of the judgmental responses coming from those who've never been married amuse me

Widescreen
10/27/2007, 06:00 PM
One reason divorce is prevalent in our society because women are more financially independent than they used to be.

Before, a woman was financially dependent on a man and would be reduced to abject poverty if she left-along with being socially ostracized. Not so much the case anymore. Which is a good thing.
This is exactly why my wife isn't allowed to leave the house without permission. Or use the phone or Internet. Or get mail. I plan on being married forever.

Rogue
10/27/2007, 06:03 PM
some of the judgmental responses coming from those who've never been married amuse me

Judgment on the SO? :confused:

usmc-sooner
10/28/2007, 03:08 PM
anybody who is small-minded enough to let movies or television shows affect their choices in life is more than deserving of the bad results those choices will bring

it's not Hollywood's fault that some people are too stupid to distinguish between fantasy and reality

sounds like an echo of what I just said.

ultimatesooner1
10/28/2007, 03:22 PM
If I ever go back to get my Masters in Sociology, I'm going to do a paper on a theory I have. It has to do with the relationship between how breast implants cause Women to lose their mind.

I have known about 10 women who had the bewbs enlarged after they got married, all of them have since divorced within a few years after the bewbs

SleestakSooner
10/28/2007, 03:44 PM
My wife and I are with Widescreen, we made a committment to each other.

Is this some sort of Amazonian Mormon cult thing? Sounds kinky! ;)

SleestakSooner
10/28/2007, 03:54 PM
I have known about 10 women who had the bewbs enlarged after they got married, all of them have since divorced within a few years after the bewbs

What about those who had theirs reduced?

I have never been married but have witnessed a great many failed marraiges. One thing that seems sure, marrying is the easy part, staying together can be a lot harder and divorcing is the hardest thing of all to deal with... even when it seems that working things out is impossible.

Jimminy Crimson
10/28/2007, 06:12 PM
I blame Aaliyah!

If at first you don't succeed, then dust yourself off and try again...

SoonerBBall
10/28/2007, 07:36 PM
some of the judgmental responses coming from those who've never been married amuse me

Because you can't understand the workings of a relationship without being married first?

jk the sooner fan
10/28/2007, 07:48 PM
Because you can't understand the workings of a relationship without being married first?

ummm no

walk a mile in a man's shoes before you pass judgement

some of the responses make me wonder if some of you believe those of us who've been divorced got married with the wrong intentions..as if we were predisposed

every broken marriage is a different and unique story - its normally something that builds to a crescendo over time

howzit and chick stated it more eloquently than i

but spend some time being married before you call the divorced ones retards or whatever else has been posted

if you're lucky enough to be in a marriage thats solid, then count your blessings

soonerboomer93
10/28/2007, 07:57 PM
naw, divorced people are retards

they should have learned and just stayed single

;)

Frozen Sooner
10/28/2007, 08:59 PM
ummm no

walk a mile in a man's shoes before you pass judgement

some of the responses make me wonder if some of you believe those of us who've been divorced got married with the wrong intentions..as if we were predisposed

every broken marriage is a different and unique story - its normally something that builds to a crescendo over time

howzit and chick stated it more eloquently than i

but spend some time being married before you call the divorced ones retards or whatever else has been posted

if you're lucky enough to be in a marriage thats solid, then count your blessings

No no no, jk. All divorces stem from selfishness. You're SELFISH.

sanantoniosooner
10/28/2007, 09:00 PM
It's possible for the other person to be selfish.

And I'll add stupid to the list if some of you get married anytime soon ;)

Frozen Sooner
10/28/2007, 09:03 PM
Or lazy. You just don't work hard enough, jk.

Lazy and selfish. Wanna hang out? That sounds kinda familiar.

JohnnyMack
10/28/2007, 09:05 PM
I think people get married on impulse a lot. I think a lot of people are in love with the idea of being married instead of finding the right partner.

Had a highschool sweetheart. Turned into my college sweetheart. We moved back to Tulsa after school and moved in together. What's the next step? Marriage of course. I was an immature 25 and she was 22. We got married because we'd been together so long we both assumed it was the next logical step. Problem was, we did a terrible job of communicating with one another where we wanted our life together to go. Not long after we moved in together the fissures became apparent. The underlying cracks that had always been in the foundation of our relationship came to the surface rather quickly. Our young impetuous decision to get married without communicating what it was each of us wanted doomed us. If we had had that talk and really analyzed what we wanted BEFORE we got married it would have saved us both some wasted time and tears. I didn't get a divorce because I was lazy, I'm sure we could have "worked it out", which would have led to significant concessions from one or both of us in order to "make it work". Concessions that two young people honestly shouldn't have to make. We dipped our foot in the pool and it wasn't for us. Thank goodness we didn't have any kids, that would have been unbearable I'm certain. The further away I get from my first marriage the less angry I am about it and the more understanding I am. I'm glad for the good times we had, but we should have never been together in a relationship as serious as a marriage. Besides if it hadn't happened the way it did I wouldn't have my boy, another one on the way and a woman who's my equal, a true partner with whom I'm thrilled to have the opportunity to build a life with.

jk the sooner fan
10/28/2007, 09:41 PM
Or lazy. You just don't work hard enough, jk.

Lazy and selfish. Wanna hang out? That sounds kinda familiar.

i left my first wife, for reasons i wont get in to here

suffice it to say it was a decision i labored over for YEARS

it was the right decision, as tough as that is to say, and i'd be shocked if my two sons said anything different

was the decision selfish? yes, it was

JohnnyMack
10/28/2007, 09:45 PM
i left my first wife, for reasons i wont get in to here


She rooted for VY and Saxet in the Rose Bowl, didn't she?

jk the sooner fan
10/28/2007, 09:48 PM
She rooted for VY and Saxet in the Rose Bowl, didn't she?

since it was after the divorce, probably so

goingoneight
10/28/2007, 09:51 PM
Old School = love, marriage, secks, children

New age = likee, nail, "love," oops, Baby comin'... screwy relationship from the beginning... oh, well let's get hitched anyway to "make it right."

Stuff like that. And lack of respect.

Mongo
10/28/2007, 09:55 PM
since it was after the divorce, probably so


dont listen to JM, he's just angry cause he didnt notice her scrotum til after the vows

JohnnyMack
10/28/2007, 09:56 PM
dont listen to JM, he's just angry cause he didnt notice her scrotum til after the vows

Prison was a lonely place. Although I probably should have known better.

olevetonahill
10/28/2007, 10:33 PM
Ok Ive read the thread . time fer me to chime in :D
Ive been Devorced thrice now , the 1st and last time was cause the lady of my heart couldnt keep her panties on Outside of the house :O
the 2nd one was that Bitch was CRazy as a LOON .:pop:

Civicus_Sooner
10/29/2007, 09:04 AM
IMHO - Men should wait until about 30 before they marry and marry women around 24. That way they're maturity levels are more compatable than two 24 year olds geting married.

-2 cents worth

Howzit
10/29/2007, 09:08 AM
Ok Ive read the thread . time fer me to chime in :D
Ive been Devorced thrice now , the 1st and last time was cause the lady of my heart couldnt keep her panties on Outside of the house :O
the 2nd one was that Bitch was CRazy as a LOON .:pop:

Oh, you selfish bastard.

sooneron
10/29/2007, 09:13 AM
exactly

my divorce was sheer hell - i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy
Did hollywood's degraded image of society cause the break up?

TexasLidig8r
10/29/2007, 09:13 AM
I really do think that a big part of the problem was 'complete inability to judge character' on my part and I think that happens to a lot more of us than we are willing to admit.

In addition to dealing with the bull****, I also get to carry around the stigma of being a single divorced mom.

I have pretty much decided that the only way I am ever going to be married again is if God really really wants me to be married and throws somebody out in front of me and smacks me in the head with a few signs as well. I have not had [nor do I have any desire to have] a single date since my last divorce almost 3 years ago. I don't see that trend changing any time in the next few decades.


/rant

Inability to judge character is a huge issue for most. Many times, relationships are based on "emotional needs." Our thought processes are based on emotional issues, NOT factual or logical ones. We think with our hearts, and do not think things through in a logical manner. In fact, many times, relationships are based on emotional needs, wants, desires and decisions.

As for the "stigma" of divorce, being in Dallas, the "stigma" is far, far less than perhaps in small, rural communities. Every church in Dallas has
divorced and single Sunday school groups and clubs. Being divorced is only a stigma is you let it be a stigma... and quite frankly, it appears as if you let it be just that.

As for God putting someone in your life... well, personally, I believe God has more important things to do than micromanage all aspects of our lifes (but, I will not digress into a religious based discussion). Nonetheless, our children want us, as their parents to be happy. In many childrens' minds, that equates to being involved with someone. Go see a counselor.. heal yourself first... your bad experiences in marriage relationships have dictated your present and future conduct. That doesn't mean you have to get or should get married again.. but, to cut off a very important aspect of everyone's lifes because of prior poor choices does a disservive to you.

Find a way to enjoy yourself and life, again.

sooneron
10/29/2007, 09:22 AM
I forgot who said it earlier in the thread, but they nailed it. You have to really like the person you plan to marry. For there to be this sort of "like", you have to respect them and listen to them.

crawfish
10/29/2007, 09:23 AM
I am sure some of you will disagree.

But I always tell friends who are considering divorce that divorce sucks, if there is ANY way to avoid it, do. Do everything you can first. And if you reach that decision and know it is the right thing to do, then know that there is happiness on the other side.

I don't want anybody to think I'm not understanding of why people divorce. There are many times when it is the best option. I think that if my wife was not as dedicated to our marriage as I was, I probably would be divorced right now. Marriage is a tough thing that requires constant work.

That being said, I have firsthand experience with the effects that a bad divorce can have on the two people involved and their children. In this case, the woman decided that she'd missed out on her childhood by marrying early and launched into a series of affairs. The damage caused to her children (and her ex-husband) was tremendous - as was the damage to herself. She ended up "accepting" a marriage to a controlling man just a few years afterwards after her other badly-chosen relationships ended in abuse, and although her children have moved on and forgiven her the relationships are still quite strained. Ironically enough, her ex-husband found a wife that is an incredibly good fit for him and is happy.

For me, I'd ask why is one divorcing? If you have to sacrifice your ethics, morals and integrity to justify it, it isn't worth it. The rewards of persevering through the hard times are worth the pain.

For the record, I love my wife. She is a beautiful person and great mother. I am thankful that she has forgiven me for all the pain I've caused her (and even all the pain I will cause her). I can do nothing but reciprocate.

C&CDean
10/29/2007, 09:36 AM
I could go on and on about the responses in this thread. I'll spare you, but I will say a couple things:

Humans, by nature, are selfish. People that get divorced are no more selfish than people who stay married. I could argue that staying married is selfish. I know guys who have stayed married just so their spouse won't nail half their retirement. I know people that are too damned lazy to get divorced too.

I must comment on the whole "you have to work to stay married" thing. Work how? Not dip your wick in the first available bimbo? Not go spread your legs to the first guy at work who says "gee you're hott."?? That's not work, that's just being respectful to yourself. I've been married to my current wife for almost 12 years now. I haven't work one second at it either. Work sucks. Marriage shouldn't be work, it should be fun.

People who stay married after "affairs" are stupid in my mind. The one true thing that keeps a marriage thriving (not just surviving) is mutual trust. Once one or both of the parties go **** around, trust is gone. FOREVER. You will never be able to give/get it again. EVER. So don't go ****ing around if you plan on staying married.

I divorced my first wife after 10 years and 3 kids. It cost me years of sleepless nights, roughly $34K in attorney fees, and a whole lot of self-doubt. It was also the best decision I've ever made in my life. For me, the kids, and her.

Here's my advice to people considering marriage:

Are you pals? Do you just enjoy hanging out together? Do you have similar interests? Do you have a thorough and solid understanding of each other's likes and dislikes? Do you find each other physically attractive? Can you talk about anything? Can you fart and **** in each others' presence?

If you answer "no" to any of the above, or have to say "well she/he's working on it" it's never gonna work. And if you're one of those people who get married just because he/she is smokin', or you have great sex then you're a mega-moron. Why? Because on a good day, how much sex can you have? An hour? 30-minutes? 5-minutes? That leaves about 23+ hours a day you have to co-exist. That 10-minutes of pleasure is very important, but the other 23 hours and 50 minutes is what makes or breaks your marriage.

Oh well, so much for not going on...

IB4OU2
10/29/2007, 10:04 AM
I could go on and on about the responses in this thread. I'll spare you, but I will say a couple things:

Humans, by nature, are selfish. People that get divorced are no more selfish than people who stay married. I could argue that staying married is selfish. I know guys who have stayed married just so their spouse won't nail half their retirement. I know people that are too damned lazy to get divorced too.

I must comment on the whole "you have to work to stay married" thing. Work how? Not dip your wick in the first available bimbo? Not go spread your legs to the first guy at work who says "gee you're hott."?? That's not work, that's just being respectful to yourself. I've been married to my current wife for almost 12 years now. I haven't work one second at it either. Work sucks. Marriage shouldn't be work, it should be fun.

People who stay married after "affairs" are stupid in my mind. The one true thing that keeps a marriage thriving (not just surviving) is mutual trust. Once one or both of the parties go **** around, trust is gone. FOREVER. You will never be able to give/get it again. EVER. So don't go ****ing around if you plan on staying married.

I divorced my first wife after 10 years and 3 kids. It cost me years of sleepless nights, roughly $34K in attorney fees, and a whole lot of self-doubt. It was also the best decision I've ever made in my life. For me, the kids, and her.

Here's my advice to people considering marriage:

Are you pals? Do you just enjoy hanging out together? Do you have similar interests? Do you have a thorough and solid understanding of each other's likes and dislikes? Do you find each other physically attractive? Can you talk about anything? Can you fart and **** in each others' presence?

If you answer "no" to any of the above, or have to say "well she/he's working on it" it's never gonna work. And if you're one of those people who get married just because he/she is smokin', or you have great sex then you're a mega-moron. Why? Because on a good day, how much sex can you have? An hour? 30-minutes? 5-minutes? That leaves about 23+ hours a day you have to co-exist. That 10-minutes of pleasure is very important, but the other 23 hours and 50 minutes is what makes or breaks your marriage.

Oh well, so much for not going on...

Buddy, your post hits close to home...and I did dodge a bullet this last year and I thank God I did. Even though there were some posts by me to my friends here about others I met during my seperation it was nothing more than casual friendships and getting support from others during a highly stressful time. I do disagree about the "you should'nt have to work for your marriage to work", statement though. We change as individuals all the time whether emotionally, physically or environmentally.
Sometimes these changes affect the way we view our spouse and sometimes it's in a negative manner. It takes work, patience and understanding to maintain or re-ignite the spark that your loved one may have lost during these changes. Being aware that there always is a possibility that the one you love won't be the exact same person from year to year and caring enough to to be sensitive to those changes is someting I've learned in a very painful but benificial way and understanding that maturity is not how the actions of everyone else affect you but how your actions affect everyone else.

C&CDean
10/29/2007, 10:14 AM
Buddy, your post hits close to home...and I did dodge a bullet this last year and I thank God I did. Even though there were some posts by me to my friends here about others I met during my seperation it was nothing more than casual friendships and getting support from others during a highly stressful time. I do disagree about the "you should'nt have to work for your marriage to work", statement though. We change as individuals all the time whether emotionally, physically or environmentally.
Sometimes these changes affect the way we view our spouse and sometimes it's in a negative manner. It takes work, patience and understanding to maintain or re-ignite the spark that your loved one may have lost during these changes. Being aware that there always is a possibility that the one you love won't be the exact same person from year to year and caring enough to to be sensitive to those changes is someting I've learned in a very painful but benificial way and understanding that maturity is not how the actions of everyone else affect you but how your actions affect everyone else.

I'll agree that a marriage requires some work, but I'll use an analogy to explain how I feel about it.

Marriage is like your lawn. If you go out there and spend some time every day giving it the little things it needs you will have a healthy lawn. If you'll fertilize it a couple times a year, and mow it, trim it, etc. on a very regular basis it will thrive. If you come home and sit in your chair and neglect your lawn, it will become overgrown with weeds. If you don't mow it when it's raining a lot it will become damn near unmowable. If you don't fertilize it it will become dead looking. If you ignore it completely, it'll just become a jungle or die in a drought.

So, spend a little bit of time having fun together each day. Water her with praise. Fertilize her with attention. Mow her with kind words (STFU you pervs). Don't go mow the neighbor's lawn when yours is getting a little patchy. Do these things and you'll have a nice lawn.

Howzit
10/29/2007, 10:25 AM
What if you get gophers?

Or fungus. Sometimes lawns get fungusy.

Howzit
10/29/2007, 10:29 AM
Or armadillos. What about those?

Now THEY'RE some selfish little bastards.

JohnnyMack
10/29/2007, 10:30 AM
Armadillos don't live on grass. Moran.

Howzit
10/29/2007, 10:32 AM
Heck no, they dig up holes all over your grass getting at those grubs that are rooning your marriage.

soonerbrat
10/29/2007, 10:33 AM
Speaking of divorce...I got married 19 years ago today :eek:

OCUDad
10/29/2007, 10:35 AM
Congratulations
Speaking of divorce...I got married 19 years ago today :eek:Congratulations. And how is your lawn?

soonerbrat
10/29/2007, 10:37 AM
my lawn?
the condo people mow it.
i'm not still married. oh no.

usmc-sooner
10/29/2007, 10:50 AM
women seem to forget the obey part. Remember love honor and OBEY

:D

sooneron
10/29/2007, 11:06 AM
Sometimes, I don't feel so cherished.

soonerbrat
10/29/2007, 11:17 AM
women seem to forget the obey part. Remember love honor and OBEY

:D


you're right. I forgot to obey. i don't take orders very well, therefore I wasn't a good doctor's wife.

Howzit
10/29/2007, 11:18 AM
You should blame it on armadillos.

soonerbrat
10/29/2007, 11:21 AM
i blame nurses

Howzit
10/29/2007, 11:27 AM
c_p is such a homewrecker.

sanantoniosooner
10/29/2007, 11:31 AM
Humans, by nature, are selfish. People that get divorced are no more selfish than people who stay married. I could argue that staying married is selfish. I know guys who have stayed married just so their spouse won't nail half their retirement. I know people that are too damned lazy to get divorced too.
I need to do flow charts for people around here.

Rather than clarifying further what I've said up to this point and pointing out the problems in this paragraph I'll bow out of this.

soonerbrat
10/29/2007, 11:36 AM
damned hiney wipers

Civicus_Sooner
10/29/2007, 11:48 AM
Sometimes, I don't feel so cherished.:D

TexasLidig8r
10/29/2007, 11:52 AM
Marriage is like your lawn.

But (and why am I about to type this).... I have Luis the Messican Lawn Guy do my lawn once a week... Best lawn on the street!

crawfish
10/29/2007, 11:59 AM
But (and why am I about to type this).... I have Luis the Messican Lawn Guy do my lawn once a week... Best lawn on the street!

I didn't need to know that. :eek:

Civicus_Sooner
10/29/2007, 12:09 PM
But (and why am I about to type this).... I have Luis the Messican Lawn Guy do my lawn once a week... Best lawn on the street!
I'm sure your wife is happy with that too.

:O ;)

OUDoc
10/29/2007, 12:35 PM
you're right. I forgot to obey. i don't take orders very well, therefore I wasn't a good doctor's wife.
Crap. My wife's been posting here the whole time?

OCUDad
10/29/2007, 12:43 PM
Crap. My wife's been posting here the whole time?From what I've heard, that ain't all she's doing... :eek:

TexasLidig8r
10/29/2007, 12:49 PM
I'm sure your wife is happy with that too.

:O ;)


Luis the Messican Lawn Guy gets the ex-wife.. and I have the best looking yard on the street.

Most would consider that an "even trade."

:D

1stTimeCaller
10/29/2007, 12:51 PM
I think it's because GI Joe is no longer on TV in the mornings.

Or Armadillos. What do I know?

Civicus_Sooner
10/29/2007, 12:58 PM
I think this can all be traced back to the burning of bras in the late 60's.

;)

IB4OU2
10/29/2007, 02:58 PM
I think this can all be traced back to the burning of bras in the late 60's.

;)

Pat had terrible scarring from that.

crawfish
10/29/2007, 03:11 PM
I think it's because GI Joe is no longer on TV in the mornings.

Or Armadillos. What do I know?

Could be armadillos.

"We've got Armadillos in our trousers. It's really quite frightening."
http://hugereviews.com/images/Movies/spinal7.jpg

Widescreen
10/29/2007, 04:05 PM
Could be armadillos.

"We've got Armadillos in our trousers. It's really quite frightening."
http://hugereviews.com/images/Movies/spinal7.jpg
It's not your job to be as confused as Nigel!