We are a passing team that tries to be balanced

[Blitzkrieg]

At some point, we need to embrace the fact we have a prolific QB and 4 or 5 really good receiving options, and throw the ball all over the field, 5 or 6 passes in a row then pop the run. We have shown no ability to consistently run the ball, and it reaches the point of putting us behind on the road because we try to hard to get it established. Had Colorado not turned the ball over, they'd have beat us by 10 to 14 points, and Texas would have won without the turnovers by Jamaal Charles.

WE don't have drive blockers, but we do have excellent pass blockers, Sam rarely gets sacked. This O-line has to be considered a major disappointment given the unwarranted accolades it was given to start the season. Their stregth is pass blocking, so let's embrace the passing offense and use the pass to set up the run.

[yermom]

that idea about lost us the ISU game

our passing game wasn't exactly lighting it up in Boulder either

we are a passing team that needs to be balanced

[NormanPride]

If we're such an amazing passing team, why are teams still loading 8-9 in the box to stop our anemic run game? ;)

[Blitzkrieg]

Because we pass on 3rd on 7. Let's throw on first down more.

[yermom]

you guys must forget about all the 2nd and 10's we have to deal with after the incompletion on 1st down

[colleyvillesooner]

Quit using facts, yermom...

[aero]

I would agree the O line is better at pass defense than run blocking but we have a decent run game base primarily on good runners. Other than the 2nd half of the ISU game, the O line doesn't seemed to be asked to blow open gaping holes for the backs, rather timing blocks to create short lived holes that the backs either get through before they close or they don't. The line did a good job of pushing the D in the second half of the ISU game when we imposed our running game but we would need to see that against another team before we could say we in fact have a good run game. Our O line had ISU's D way overmatched as far as size and it still wasn't that easy. I agree our strength seems to be in the passing game. I think the coaching staff thinks that, too, but when the passes aren't connecting or the D is playing pass you don't have much choice but to run. And if you want the pass to open up no better way than to get the run going, and vice versa.

[Theskipster]

If we're such an amazing passing team, why are teams still loading 8-9 in the box to stop our anemic run game? ;)

You may have noticed that ISU stopped doing that and keying on the run after we took all those shots down field. Those safeties were playing way farther back in the second half and our run game opened up a lot. The linebackers also quit making their first move towards the line and started respecting the pass too.

Even Alan Patrick had time to find holes after running into his blocker when the opposing teams aren't keying on the run and short pass.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

Blitzkrieg = On the $$$

[soonerhubs]

Blitzkrieg = Not quite on the $$$
Fixed it. ;)

[Blitzkrieg]

All I know is our efforts against CU, UT,MU and ISU, none of which has a very good defense was weak at best. Take away Demarcos big run against UT, and opponents turnovers, and we are lucky to get 2 wins out of that stretch.

We need to play to our strengths, not a preseason goal of being balanced. Gresham could line up line Trent Smith used to, and our WRs are proptypical spread WRs, other than kelly. Use the RBs out of the backfield, Brown and Murray are good receivers, and both run well on the draw.

In case you haven't noticed, this is the style of play in college that is effective, mainly because the rules favor the passing game. A defender can't touch a WR past 5 yards, and if they get close, the flag is coming out. Almost no one uses a bump and run anymore, they all fall back into soft zones and cover 2s, us included. MU had 7.4 yards a pass play average and over 400 yards against us at our house. Want to face them in San Antonio with the same game plan as last time?

An average team like ISU or Okie Lite can laod the box and bring our running game to a halt. We then take a shot on a low probability pass play to Kelly 25 yards downfield.

133 yards and 2.9 yards a carry against a 1 win ISU team doesn't instill confidence that we could match up with someone in a BCS bowl and win. I love to run the ball and own the oppoenent, but this O-line can't do it. LSU or any legit top 10 team will shut our run game down. The answer is in Sams arm, so let's saddle him up and ride him to #8.

[JohnnyMack]

I hate to point fingers, but I didn't think Bradford was particularly sharp on Saturday. I have to imagine that if he's on his game and doesn't miss Kelly and Iglesias when they had nice separation in the first half then we're not talking about this. If Sam makes those throws it stretches the defense, forcing them to think twice before they load up the box and take away the run.

I do agree that our O-Line hasn't progressed as well as we had hoped in terms of run blocking and that we are in fact a pass 1st, run 2nd offense, but when we're not hitting open receivers it makes us almost less than one dimensional.

[Bruiser53]

All those passing teams look real good throwing the ball 50 times and putting all kinds of points up...playing in the insight bowl. When was the last time a team like played in or won a national championship. Balance is still the key for success. We have three great backs, and over the course of the game, the running game gets better becasue we wear down the defense. A good chunk of our deep balls are set up by play action. In my opinion we should be running the ball more.

[Widescreen]

133 yards and 2.9 yards a carry against a 1 win ISU team doesn't instill confidence that we could match up with someone in a BCS bowl and win.
You're right about our OL and not living up to the pre-season hype in terms of run blocking. However, if you take out Bradford's sack yardage/attempts, it was 3.9 YPC and 155 yards. Not great but serviceable.

[OklahomaTuba]

There is really no reason for us to not be a balanced offense. We have some amazing skill players.

As is usually the case, the line is the key. They are soft & don't play very physical.

[VMG]

We were three overthrown deep balls from a 38-7 'W' instead of a 17-7 'W'. However, our offensive philosophy is not lost on our opponents...

"Iowa State's strong defensive showing against Oklahoma came as a surprise to everyone who saw opponents score 133 points in the Cyclones' first three Big 12 games.

But Chizik said that the Sooners' straight-ahead offensive style played more into Iowa State's hands than the attack used by Texas Tech and Texas, both of which scored at will by spreading the field and forcing the Cyclones to chase down their skill players in space."

http://www.thonline.com/article.cfm?id=177682

[Theskipster]

MU had 7.4 yards a pass play average and over 400 yards against us at our house. Want to face them in San Antonio with the same game plan as last time?


Yes I do want to face them with the same game plan. We played MU hard and made them earn every single yard unlike ISU and CU. Then we stuffed MU when they got in the red zone.

[aero]

We were trying to throw. 16 for 28 passing and would have been more but thank goodness we went to the run or maybe that was a loss instead of a win. We had 45 rushing attempts and I would be surprised if the majority of those weren't in the 2nd half. The fact is, we just weren't connecting on the passes or that game is not close. I think teams will continue to try to stop the run and make Sam beat them and I think that will serve us fine. I think he had a bad day in the wind but I wouldn't count on that to happen too often.

[OklahomaTuba]

But Chizik said that the Sooners' straight-ahead offensive style played more into Iowa State's hands than the attack used by Texas Tech and Texas, both of which scored at will by spreading the field and forcing the Cyclones to chase down their skill players in space."

With all the speed we have, I never understood why we don't spread it out more and do that. I guess its the big-10 influence kicking in for Bob and KW.

Murry in space is just lethal.

[SoonerGM]

JohnnyMack = On the $$$

[Blitzkrieg]

. When was the last time a team like played in or won a national championship.

Florida, last year.

[Widescreen]

JohnnyMack = On the $$$
There's a statement I never thought I'd see.

;)

[VMG]

With all the speed we have, I never understood why we don't spread it out more and do that. I guess its the big-10 influence kicking in for Bob and KW.

Murry in space is just lethal.

I agree that we would likely benefit from being more creative about getting the ball to our playmakers in "space" -- DM being the most obvious.

Our predictablity on offense seems to be one of our few liabilities, but that is not unique to this year's approach. USC players commented on it after the Orange Bowl spanking...

[JohnnyMack]

There's a statement I never thought I'd see.

;)

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif

[OU Adonis]

Florida, last year.

Umm, Florida ranked 28th in passing and 38th in rushing last year.

Thats not a team thats lighting people up with the pass.

[cjames317]

I hate to point fingers, but I didn't think Bradford was particularly sharp on Saturday. I have to imagine that if he's on his game and doesn't miss Kelly and Iglesias when they had nice separation in the first half then we're not talking about this. If Sam makes those throws it stretches the defense, forcing them to think twice before they load up the box and take away the run.

I do agree that our O-Line hasn't progressed as well as we had hoped in terms of run blocking and that we are in fact a pass 1st, run 2nd offense, but when we're not hitting open receivers it makes us almost less than one dimensional.

I agree that Sam played like a freshman Saturday. He'll learn to throw it away instead of taking those sacks. He'll learn to put better "touch" on the long balls. And what about that fourth down play where Sam scrambled and ran instead of pulling up at the line of scrimmage and flicking the ball over the LB's head to a wide wide open Kelly? I'm sure Josh pointed that out on the film and Sam will learn to continue to keep his eyes downfield. These were all mistakes that can and will be corrected.

Then [in NEO voice], "Whoa."

[OU Adonis]

The top 10 BCS teams of last year (2006)

If you average their total run offense they came to an average of 30.
If you average their total pass offense they came to an average of 44.

4 out of 10 BCS teams were in the top 25 in rushing
3 out of 10 BCS teams were in the top 25 in passing.

So saying you have to throw it around the yard to win championships is flat out wrong.

[tommieharris91]

I agree with everyone that says teams that throw it around all the times never win nuthin.

[Blitzkrieg]

Adonis, I'd love to line up and drive block the D-line 5 yards back a snap, but this group ain't able to do it. I say let's throw more shorter passes early, and watch Gresham, Murray and Brown do their thing. Those 3 are insanely talented, but we run AP into the line for no gain the whole first quarter. Then we press to convert 3rd down. By the 3rd quarter, be have figured out that Brown needs to be running the ball more and he is gashing the defense and cutting back for yards. AP is on the bench and our run game takes off.

The goal is to be in 3rd and managable. Then we have options. I don't want to abondandon the run, but I think we are trying too hard to be a power running team, and that's something we are clearly not. I guess my real point is quit starting Allen Patrick and start and use Brown and Murray more.

[Soonermagik]

Throwing the ball is more important than running. I thought I would never say that, but it seems to be true. Look how the Patriots only rushed for like 57 yards on Dallas, but threw the ball all over them.

Florida in last years title game only ran tebow. Their run game consisted of throwing quick slants and screens to eat up the clock and move the ball. I think it is important to reamain balanced, but throwing the ball is #1 in my book.

[Scott D]

Adonis, I'd love to line up and drive block the D-line 5 yards back a snap, but this group ain't able to do it. I say let's throw more shorter passes early, and watch Gresham, Murray and Brown do their thing. Those 3 are insanely talented, but we run AP into the line for no gain the whole first quarter. Then we press to convert 3rd down. By the 3rd quarter, be have figured out that Brown needs to be running the ball more and he is gashing the defense and cutting back for yards. AP is on the bench and our run game takes off.

The goal is to be in 3rd and managable. Then we have options. I don't want to abondandon the run, but I think we are trying too hard to be a power running team, and that's something we are clearly not. I guess my real point is quit starting Allen Patrick and start and use Brown and Murray more.

Have you considered perhaps it's the blocking scheme, and not the players?

[aero]

The top 10 BCS teams of last year (2006)

If you average their total run offense they came to an average of 30.
If you average their total pass offense they came to an average of 44.

4 out of 10 BCS teams were in the top 25 in rushing
3 out of 10 BCS teams were in the top 25 in passing.

So saying you have to throw it around the yard to win championships is flat out wrong.
Agree. The run and pass both are more effective when the other is working. I can't think of a championship team that didn't have some type of running game but I can think of a few that had very limited passing games. I really like where we are right now. I think we have a capable run game and a potentially explosive passing game, both of which I expect will only get better. Anybody remember the 90's? Appreciate what we have. Perfection is only your children in your eyes and even then sometimes you've got to squint a little. This team is fine. Let's see how we finish and how the season shakes out. I have a feeling we are going to be sitting in pretty good shape in the end.

[OU Adonis]

The goal is to be in 3rd and managable. Then we have options. I don't want to abondandon the run, but I think we are trying too hard to be a power running team, and that's something we are clearly not. I guess my real point is quit starting Allen Patrick and start and use Brown and Murray more.

We both agree with that first line

I think the offense is soft right now. Throwing the ball more won't make your team more physical, it will make it more finesse. You have to be angry and mean to run block. Pass blocking is passive.

Its not that our guys don't have the physical tools to be a good run blocking line. The physical tools are being big and strong. The mental aspect they don't have(right now).

[stoopified]

you guys must forget about all the 2nd and 10's we have to deal with after the incompletion on 1st down
It is hard to have a lot of incompletions on any down when the QB is completing 69% of his passes.Our offense has misfired in two games only this year.AT CU there would have been more chances to run and pass IF we don't turn the ball OVER 4 TIMES.It did not help that 6 of OUr 11 incomplete passes were UNFORCED drops by OUr recievers.Oddly enough we have had unforced drops at the rate of 2-3 per game even we win.In the ISU game THE ANSWER was off target for the first time this year(still at 16-28 for 183,thats 57-1%)and we again had turnovers.

With OUr RBs and O-line,Bob is insistent that we CAN and WILL run the ball.In his playback show and coach's show both,he continues to say OUr run blocking and run game needs to improve.My deduction is he doesn't want to put the bulk of the O on Sam and his arm,in much the same way OUr 2003 O rode on JW's arm.As pointed out earlier in this tread,being passhappy cost us against LSU.

According to the stats we are averaging 202.5 yds a game rushing(5.2 yd/c),and 256 yds a game passing.I'm thinking Bob will stick wth the balanced offense approach and stress execution and ball security.

[cvsooner]

I have to agree with that last post. The way some people are whining here, you'd think we were 1-7 instead of 7-1.

Somewhat different note...does anybody else get wishful thoughts from time to time what this team would be with AD still here? Man, could we use a little of that leadership now.

[Desert Sapper]

Have you considered perhaps it's the blocking scheme, and not the players?

Fire James Patton!

:rolleyes:

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Have you considered perhaps it's the blocking scheme, and not the players?

THANK YOU.

Saves me the trouble of saying it.

The thing is, with line size comes somewhat of a loss in mobility. Run blocking is all about mobility. Hence why good running teams will often have smaller offensive fronts that can pull, trap, log, and reach block a team to shreds. We don't have a smaller offensive front. We have beasts that eat small children and drink gasoline. They're beautiful pass blockers. And they're finally getting some help in run blocking scheme as was evident in the 2nd half of the ISU game.

Remember how Watson Brown's Blazers and Washington gutshot us for a billion last season?

Same thing applies. Take advantage of size by giving your offensive front a leg up. Let them downblock for the zone read. Use the trap. Put blockers in a position so that they're not reaching for blocks, they're by scheme already in position which puts those 300 plus pound freight trains between the ball and the tackler. Let the playside clear to the downblock and use the pull for the kickout, the fullback for the lead. If in one back, let the tight end make the reach blocks to drop contain and put that 300 plus pound freight train on a straight line to the block with body advantage given by the scheme itself instead of hoping to the baby Jesus that the massive side of beef you have trying to beat the linebacker to the lane can not only get there in time to get face on the defender, but get him turned without getting handsy. Be quick out of the backfield and stay inside the tackles. Don't screw around with long developing plays that allow time for smaller, faster defenses to clear the blocks of your meat gang.

Again, I saw that in the 2nd half this past weekend. To my recollection, I saw it for the first time where instead of using the pull to try and reach contain for the seal or to effect as lead from the one back, scheme finally gave our meat an advantage before the ball was even snapped. Gave our boys position to guarantee blocks instead of incentive to try and set one like a straight man or base zone scheme would do.

But that's just what I saw. Surprised me to see it, too. Where some folks write it off to an offensive front just wearing a team out, others see the adjustments. And that was a fine set of adjustments in the running game.

[Widescreen]

But that's just what I saw. Surprised me to see it, too. Where some folks write it off to an offensive front just wearing a team out, others see the adjustments. And that was a fine set of adjustments in the running game.
So if you can see all that, why can't the coaches? They chose the scheme for a reason.

[yermom]

It is hard to have a lot of incompletions on any down when the QB is completing 69% of his passes.Our offense has misfired in two games only this year.AT CU there would have been more chances to run and pass IF we don't turn the ball OVER 4 TIMES.It did not help that 6 of OUr 11 incomplete passes were UNFORCED drops by OUr recievers.Oddly enough we have had unforced drops at the rate of 2-3 per game even we win.In the ISU game THE ANSWER was off target for the first time this year(still at 16-28 for 183,thats 57-1%)and we again had turnovers.

With OUr RBs and O-line,Bob is insistent that we CAN and WILL run the ball.In his playback show and coach's show both,he continues to say OUr run blocking and run game needs to improve.My deduction is he doesn't want to put the bulk of the O on Sam and his arm,in much the same way OUr 2003 O rode on JW's arm.As pointed out earlier in this tread,being passhappy cost us against LSU.

According to the stats we are averaging 202.5 yds a game rushing(5.2 yd/c),and 256 yds a game passing.I'm thinking Bob will stick wth the balanced offense approach and stress execution and ball security.

the stats don't show that a lot of those rushing yards are in the second half after not being about to push people around early, or once we start shutting down in a a blowout

at ISU in the first half we were throwing 5/11 times on 1st down, in the second half it was 4/16 once we wised up a bit ;)

but still that's 9/27 or 1/3 for the whole game, that doesn't sound too far off, but i thought we were a little pass happy in the first half

[tommieharris91]

There is way too much logic in this thread. The board must be breaking down again.

[CitySooner]

OU needs to play to their strengths. Running up the gut is not it, unless we only use Chris Brown. Demarco and Allen need to be given the ball on the deep pitch to the left or right, or quick passes just right off the line of scrimmage. We have the best wide-out in the country with hands of glue (Malcolm), and in my opinion the most dangerous tight end in college football (Jermaine). WE DO NOT GET THESE TWO STUDS THE BALL ENOUGH!!!!!!! Perhaps it is because Sammy has not learned to check off and read, or it is the play calling. I do not know. What I do know is every game I am yelling at the TV or in the stands screaming, " Get the damn ball to Kelly and Gresham! My God, you don't have to be a frickin' Einstein to figure that out!" That's all I have to say :O .

[aero]

Pass blocking and run blocking are two different animals. Both take good footwork. Our guys, whether they've been coached/not coached, are not as good at run blocking. The only time I've seen them drive blocking was in the 2nd half at ISU. ISU seemed to be slanting alot and wasn't getting much penetration but were clogging the line up fairly good. It seems most teams can either pass block or run block but seldom do both well. Sam has enjoyed some very good protection but the run game has not overwhelmed, although I think it has been decent. Dallas' early 90's O line was, IMO, the best line ever. They could pass AND run block pretty good.

[Widescreen]

Our 2004 OL was hailed as one of the best and yet they really weren't that great at run blocking. That was a perfect example of wearing a defense down such that the same plays that weren't working in the 1st half are now busting big gainers. And it didn't hurt to have AD back there toting it in the 4th.

[C&CDean]

All you geniuses are wrong.

If OU cut their fumbles and dropped passes by 1/4 we'd be undefeated and #1 in every poll.

Play calling, run/pass ratios, etc. isn't hurting us. Players not executing is.

If we play a game without a fumble, dropped pass, or interception we win by 20. I don't care who we're playing. And I won't even get into some shoddy special teams play that has happened every game. Correct that too, and we win by 30. EVERY TIME.

[stoopified]

the stats don't show that a lot of those rushing yards are in the second half after not being about to push people around early, or once we start shutting down in a a blowout

at ISU in the first half we were throwing 5/11 times on 1st down, in the second half it was 4/16 once we wised up a bit ;)

but still that's 9/27 or 1/3 for the whole game, that doesn't sound too far off, but i thought we were a little pass happy in the first halfThe first half air assault was triggered by what UT did passing against ISU.If THE ANSWER had been his usual LASER-GUIDED self this would have ripped the game open early as we had recievers running wide-open.We made the adjustment at half and assaulted ISU on the ground and Sam hit 6-7 passes.Our own miscues (turnovers,penalties and dropped passes)have more to do with stopping OUr O then any opponent thus far.Make no mistake,Bob has been VERY clear he wants to run and pass in a balanced offense.

[aero]

The first half air assault was triggered by what UT did passing against ISU.If THE ANSWER had been his usual LASER-GUIDED self this would have ripped the game open early as we had recievers running wide-open.We made the adjustment at half and assaulted ISU on the ground and Sam hit 6-7 passes.Our own miscues (turnovers,penalties and dropped passes)have more to do with stopping OUr O then any opponent thus far.Make no mistake,Bob has been VERY clear he wants to run and pass in a balanced offense.
true

[Tulsa_Fireman]

So if you can see all that, why can't the coaches?

They did. I saw the adjustments Kevin Wilson made in the 2nd half which is what I'm speaking of.

I'm not professing some grand football wisdom that makes me better than guys that do it for a living. C'mon, man.

[Redgiant2]

THAT'S Big Ten Football!!!!! Wilson knows how to use two parts of the field. A small patch between the tackles and a 50 yard long stretch about 5 yards wide down the sideline for a Hail Mary or a broken tackle on the WR screen. Everything else is considered trickeration and nonsense.

[Widescreen]

They did. I saw the adjustments Kevin Wilson made in the 2nd half which is what I'm speaking of.

I'm not professing some grand football wisdom that makes me better than guys that do it for a living. C'mon, man.
That's not what I mean. I'm saying that they apparently have chosen their scheme for a reason. Do you think they're going to keep doing what we've been doing all season or shift to what we did in the 2nd half at ISU? Was that half an aberration and we'll get back to what we were doing before but hopefully do it better? Unfortunately, I don't know enough to see a change other than "Wow! Our running game has really improved."

[rhombic21]

When was the last time a team like played in or won a national championship.
We did it in 2000. This team arguably has more talent at WR than that one did.

I don't know that we need to revert back to a Mike Leach offense, but we definitely need to do a better job of getting our playmakers the ball, whether that be in the running game or the passing game. Seems like we have a bunch of good WRs, two pretty good pass catching TEs, and a HB in Murray that is a great player in space. Plus we have a pretty accurate QB, and a massive OL that should be able to pass block effectively.

I think we do spread the field a good amount, but the problem is that we're too predictable, IMO. Virtually everytime we have a twins set, we're throwing a bubble screen to the slot WR. Virtually everytime that we're in shotgun we're throwing a dropback pass. Virtually every time we go jumbo, we run off the strongside. We try to play action when we haven't established the run nearly enough. Sam missed a couple open guys, but there were also a ton of times that we went PA and nobody on ISU bit. How many times on Saturday did ISU jump the bubble screen, or bat it down at the LOS? We need to do a better job of self-scouting, and recognizing what our tendencies are, and then going against that. Line up in that under-center 3 WR set and run a quick hitting draw play. Go shotgun and run the ball up the middle. Put all our WRs to one side and isolate Gresham on a Safety or LB. Line up in I formation and then motion Murray out of the backfield like USC used to do with Bush. Get 2 tailbacks on the field at the same time in a couple formations. Maybe run a delayed draw play out of I formation every once in awhile if those safeties are bailing out to try and get over the top of Kelly and Iggy when they read pass. How about a couple misdirection counter plays, or quick tosses to get the tailback on the edge (such as that counter-toss play that we used against Texas in '04 with AD).

But the other aspect is that we need to block a lot better (and IMO, we need to play Murray and Brown more, since they seem to be better at hitting the cutback lanes and running in traffic), and we need to eliminate the turnovers. And it goes without saying that we need to capitilize downfield when we have chances to do so -- which Sam has been very good at until last week.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

That's not what I mean. I'm saying that they apparently have chosen their scheme for a reason. Do you think they're going to keep doing what we've been doing all season or shift to what we did in the 2nd half at ISU? Was that half an aberration and we'll get back to what we were doing before but hopefully do it better? Unfortunately, I don't know enough to see a change other than "Wow! Our running game has really improved."

In my opinion, you can't just say "this is what we're going to do, end of story." We DO know Wilson likes a heads up, smashmouth style when we run the football and he likes to try and gin up mismatches with motion and overload sets like that triple tight we run so much. That works beautifully for a guy like AP. Works beautifully for a guy like AD. But with cats like Chris Brown and Demarco Murray, oftentimes a downhill, punch you in the face and make you my bitch style just don't work. They don't have the horsepower of an Allen Patrick in traffic. Simply because they're not that type of back.

Personally, I think we'll see more of that 2nd half given the personnel. Not necessarily through changes in the set, but through what's actually ran from the set. You can't tip your hand and get deadlocked into Patrick = lead/iso, Murray = zone read, but expect more hat on hat facepunching with Patrick in the game and more read looks with Murray and Brown. Both of which you can do out of whichever set you'd like to throw at 'em. It's just a matter of taking advantage of the tools you have, and in my honest opinion, they've done a good job. Blocking schemes can be amazingly complicated and its easy to rely on power, man up, and punch folks in the mouth. It's a lot harder to hit 'em in the mouth and come a minute left in the 4th, the defense STILL doesn't know exactly how you're gonna do the punching.

We're getting there.

The adjustments are being made upstairs, so it's obvious they're on top of things. We just don't know how much of the package is left to be used or if they're even implementing these changes in prep.

[the_edge]

All you geniuses are wrong.

If OU cut their fumbles and dropped passes by 1/4 we'd be undefeated and #1 in every poll.

Play calling, run/pass ratios, etc. isn't hurting us. Players not executing is.

If we play a game without a fumble, dropped pass, or interception we win by 20. I don't care who we're playing. And I won't even get into some shoddy special teams play that has happened every game. Correct that too, and we win by 30. EVERY TIME.

I agree completely, but what disturbs me is that the boneheaded mistakes are being made by the juniors and a senior or two, rather than the freshmen and sophomores you'd expect them from.

They are making underclassmen mistakes that they most certainly should have gotten out of their system already. We need some Derrick Strait or Mark Clayton type players that not only make the big play occasionally, but also NEVER make a silly mistake.

[Widescreen]

And it would be great if MK would work hard in blocking. The 1st play against ISU was the most pitiful display of effort I've ever seen.

[douxpaysan]

We are a balanced team that tries to take whatever is given us. First half ISU was comitted to stopping the run. A number of things twarted our passing game, turnovers caused by tipped balls, mental mistakes, a pesky swirling breeze and give Chizak/ISU credit, a well excuted game plan. Get used to it...every DC from now on will use this as a blueprint for stopping our offense.

[East Coast Bias]

Bob definetely wants to exert power running somewhere in most games, has often said its important to run the ball when we want to. I think Blitz is on target, we don't have that capacity. We are not a power team, we should be more of finesse team.Think about it, we all know what play comes next, our opponents know this as well. If Bob wants to power run when everyone knows its coming, we should try Loadholtz at tailback....

[sitzpinkler]

All you geniuses are wrong.

If OU cut their fumbles and dropped passes by 1/4 we'd be undefeated and #1 in every poll.

Play calling, run/pass ratios, etc. isn't hurting us. Players not executing is.

If we play a game without a fumble, dropped pass, or interception we win by 20. I don't care who we're playing. And I won't even get into some shoddy special teams play that has happened every game. Correct that too, and we win by 30. EVERY TIME.

That about sums it up right there. I've bitched and moaned about various aspects of the offense or defense the past few weeks, but I was wrong. We're turning the ball over way too much this season and making dumb mistakes on special teams. If we can correct those two things and play smart, disciplined football the rest of the way, we'll come out okay. Hopefully, this week off will give the coaches some time to correct those issues.

[douxpaysan]

If Bob wants to power run when everyone knows its coming, we should try Loadholtz at tailback....
That's not the refigerator...that's the whole dang kitchen.

[cvsooner]

This might be instructive. I don't see that we don't have a nice mix of running and passing. Murray had several nice runs, as did Patrick, and of course, Brown. We went for it and made a critical 4th down.

Our biggest opponent on that day was ourselves. Note the circumstances: invariably we're driving the ball and then turn it over or have a penalty or a poor punt. (I'm cutting Cohen some slack because really he's punted well all season, until that one punt.)

FIRST DRIVE
1-10 Iglesias rush for loss of 3 yards (one of those reverses people keep wanting us to do)
2-13 Bradford pass complete to Kelly for 10 yards
3-3 Bradford pass incomplete to Murray (dropped)
4-3 Punt

SECOND DRIVE
1-10 Patrick rush for 11 yards
1-10 Patrick rush for 3 yards
2-7 Patrick rush for 3, fumble

THIRD DRIVE
1-10 Bradford pass complete to Kelly for 7 yards
2-3 Bradford pass complete to Johnson for 10 yards
1-10 Bradford pass incomplete to Kelly
2-10 Bradford pass complete to Johnson for 7 yards
3-3 Bradford pass incomplete to Iglesias
4-3 punt

FOURTH DRIVE
1-10 Murray rush for 1 yard
2-9 Bradford rush for 3 yards
3-6 Bradford pass complete to Brown for 9 yards
1-10 Iglesias rush for no gain
2-10 Bradford pass incomplete to Iglesias
3-10 Bradford pass complete to Gresham for 18 yards
1-10 Bradford pass incomplete to Gresham
2-10 Brown rush for 6 yards
3-4 Brown rush for 5 yards
1-10 Brown rush for 5 yards
2-5 Bradford pass incomplete to Kelly
3-5 Bradford pass incomplete to Tennell
4-5 Bradford rush for 2 yards (where he had Kelly open in the endzone and Murray in the flat; Sam acknowledges now it was a mistake to run)
Turn over on downs

FIFTH DRIVE
1-10 Patrick rush for 10 yards PENALTY OU holding—negates play (on the upside...not a single false start penalty this game, which I think was a first)
1-10 Patrick rush for 8 yards
2-2 Bradford pass complete to Johnson for 7 yards
1-10 Bradford pass intercepted (after bounces off Gresham)

SIXTH DRIVE
1-10 Bradford pass complete to Patrick for 4 yards
2-6 Bradford sacked for loss of 7 yards
3-13 Take a knee because....it's

END OF FIRST HALF

SECOND HALF

SEVENTH DRIVE
1-10 Patrick rush for no gain
2-10 Bradford pass incomplete to Brown
3-10 Bradford pass complete to Kelly for 10 yards
1-10 Bradford pass complete to Johnson for 13 yards
1-10 Murray rush for 6 yards
2-4 Murray rush for 10 yards
1-10 Murray rush for 10 yards
1-10 Murray rush for 11 yards
1-10 Brown rush for 6 yards
2-4 Brown rush for 3 yards
3-1 Brown rush for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN (only the second sustained drive of the game)

EIGHTH DRIVE
1-10 Murray, rush for 7 yards, fumble (on the ISU 43, no less...we have a short field and give it right back)

NINTH DRIVE
1-10 Patrick rush for 4 yards
2-6 Patrick rush for 4 yards
3-2 Brown rush for 5 yards
1-10 Bradford pass incomplete to Gresham
2-10 Murray rush for 9 yards
3-1 Brown rush for 3 yards
1-10 Bradford pass incomplete to Iglesias
2-10 Bradford pass complete to Johnson for 9 yards
3-1 Brown rush for 1 yard to the ISU45
1-10 Bradford sacked for loss of 10 yards
2-20 Bradford pass complete to Gresham for 30 yards (huge play)
1-10 Patrick rush for 5 yards
2-5 Bradford pass complete to Iglesias for 16 yards
1-Goal-4 Brown rush for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN

TENTH DRIVE
1-10 Patrick rush for 5 yards
2-5 Patrick rush for 3 yards
3-2 Bradford pass incomplete
4-2 Cohen punt (14 yard shanked punt)

OU INTERCEPTS IN END ZONE

ELEVENTH DRIVE
1-10 Bradford pass complete to Kelly for 14 yards
1-10 Patrick rush for 6 yards
2-4 Patrick rush for 1 yard
3-3 Bradford pass complete to Eldridge for 5 yards, PENALTY ISU roughing passer adds 15 yards (crummy call in my view, but hey, we'll take it)
1-10 Brown rush for 1 yard
2-9 Murray rush for 5 yards
3-4 Murray rush for no gain
4-4 Bradford pass complete to Gresham for 14 yards
1-10 Brown rush for 2 yards
2-8 Brown rush for 1 yard
3-7 Bradford sacked for loss of 10 yards
4-17 Hartley field goal GOOD

Just a difficult day, all in all. Hard to get any momentum going when you keep making mistakes. Eleven drives: scored on three. Turned the ball over on three. One was the end of the half. Turned the ball over on downs once. Three punts. If you don't turn the ball over, figure another...17 points? So, now it's 34-7. In fact, maybe they don't get the seven, since that came on a short field after Patrick's fumble. ISU had only two sustained drives: scored on one and threw the pick on the other one.

Sometimes you just win ugly.

I also find it interesting we threw the ball nine times on first down out of 31 first down plays. With the problems we were having passing, that makes sense. Though it's a problem if you're fumbling it, as well.

Thirty pass plays. Thirty-eight run plays. Looks pretty balanced to me.

It comes down to executing the play, making the blocks, holding onto the ball, catching the pass. If you're not doing those things, you will get beat.

[utex74]

At some point, we need to embrace the fact we have a prolific QB and 4 or 5 really good receiving options, and throw the ball all over the field, 5 or 6 passes in a row then pop the run. We have shown no ability to consistently run the ball, and it reaches the point of putting us behind on the road because we try to hard to get it established. Had Colorado not turned the ball over, they'd have beat us by 10 to 14 points, and Texas would have won without the turnovers by Jamaal Charles.

WE don't have drive blockers, but we do have excellent pass blockers, Sam rarely gets sacked. This O-line has to be considered a major disappointment given the unwarranted accolades it was given to start the season. Their stregth is pass blocking, so let's embrace the passing offense and use the pass to set up the run.

I had to check. I thought I was on the other board for a second. Sounds just like comments on our offense.

[yermom]

That about sums it up right there. I've bitched and moaned about various aspects of the offense or defense the past few weeks, but I was wrong. We're turning the ball over way too much this season and making dumb mistakes on special teams. If we can correct those two things and play smart, disciplined football the rest of the way, we'll come out okay. Hopefully, this week off will give the coaches some time to correct those issues.

i completely agree.

my only complaint is when we run into the pile too much

Stoops mentioned using this to set up other plays but it seems like we do it way more than we need to if all we are doing is trying to sell play action or a run to the outside

[tommieharris91]

Dean should have locked the thread with his post.

[rhombic21]

Yeah, I guess you guys may be right. I do feel that we mix things up a fair bit, in terms of using different formations and varying between run and pass. It just seems to me like we don't do a whole lot of things to try and create mismatches or catch the defense off guard. I'm also really perplexed why Murray doesn't get more carries. Patrick just hasn't been that effective this year. I'm not so sure that he's even 100%, since he had the ankle problem to start the year, and then got hurt again against Texas, and seemed to be limping against Missouri.

But the point about the turnovers and the self-inflicted mistakes is definitely a good one. Looking back on it, fumbles and tipped interceptions have been rampant problems all year.

We probably should be giving MORE credit to Wilson than we are. He has done a pretty good job of adjusting mid-game in every game so far this season, and when the players execute his playcalls correctly, we look unstoppable. The only game where we struggled a whole lot in the second half, offensively, was the Colorado game, and that had more to do with flukish tipped INTs, and guys dropping the ball. We blew Miami out in the second half. We put together several good drives against Texas in the second half, including the clutch drive in the fourth that put us ahead. Outside of Iggy's fumble against Missouri, it seemed like we scored on almost every possession of the second half against Missouri. And even against ISU, we came out in the second half and put up 17 points, and probably get more than that if not for Murray's fumble.

There have been more wide open receivers this year than I can ever remember under Long, which says a lot about KW's ability to keep the defense off-balance.

But I do agree that we need to improve in the running game, in terms of consistency. We're getting some big runs that distort some of the totals, IMO. I'd like to see us be more consistent at being able to pick up 6+ on the ground and wear teams down with sustained drives, like we did against ISU on our two TD drives.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I personally think we are a balanced team that tries to be a running team.

[Blitzkrieg]

All you geniuses are wrong.

If OU cut their fumbles and dropped passes by 1/4 we'd be undefeated and #1 in every poll.

Play calling, run/pass ratios, etc. isn't hurting us. Players not executing is.

So we get to not count our fumbles but still get to keep the opponents fumbles as proof of something? I'm confused?

Everyone knows player execution is more important than play calling, that's why I never got wound up with all the Chuck Long talk on this board. These guys know what they are doing, but they also try to impose their will sometimes at the expense of winning. Running Allen Patrick at the OT on first down has not been a good play, because we can't open up a hole. We know he hits a hole hard and will be gone with just a little crease, but that has happened twice all year. I simply want the play calling to be unpredicatble, at least early on so we can utitlze the fact we have more talent with Gresham, Murray, Brown, Patrick, Kelly, and Iglasias than 99% of the teams inthe country

[cvsooner]

Yeah, I guess you guys may be right. I do feel that we mix things up a fair bit, in terms of using different formations and varying between run and pass. It just seems to me like we don't do a whole lot of things to try and create mismatches or catch the defense off guard.

With the talent we have, you really shouldn't have to play that way. I think what Stoops and Wilson are attempting to do is to get players to be fundamentally sound. This is Green Bay Packers-Lombardi era football: line up, mow 'em down and pass when you can.


I'm also really perplexed why Murray doesn't get more carries. Patrick just hasn't been that effective this year. I'm not so sure that he's even 100%, since he had the ankle problem to start the year, and then got hurt again against Texas, and seemed to be limping against Missouri.

Patrick has been streaky, I'll grant you. But both he and Murray have fumbled WAY too much for running backs. I think they're holding Murray back, some, because of his age. Have you really watched him run with the ball? Specifically, how he doesn't protect the ball? I thought AP's fumble against ISU was fairly understandable--a helmet goes right into the ball and that one can go either way. But Murray's--man, he was just holding the ball way out there. He's easier to make fumble. Murray has a lot of talent and potential but he's got a huge amount to learn, too. His pass blocking is not good, yet. Chris Brown has been the most secure in terms of securing the ball this season. And don't even get me started on Iglesias.


But the point about the turnovers and the self-inflicted mistakes is definitely a good one. Looking back on it, fumbles and tipped interceptions have been rampant problems all year.

Exactly, and the timing is awful, too. It's one thing to fumble when you're way ahead. It's another to fumble when you're behind, especially deep in your own territory. Dropped passes this season have been a serious problem as well. Bradford made some throws Saturday that were off, but several of them were just dropped. And by the usual suspects, as well.


We probably should be giving MORE credit to Wilson than we are. He has done a pretty good job of adjusting mid-game in every game so far this season, and when the players execute his playcalls correctly, we look unstoppable. The only game where we struggled a whole lot in the second half, offensively, was the Colorado game, and that had more to do with flukish tipped INTs, and guys dropping the ball. We blew Miami out in the second half. We put together several good drives against Texas in the second half, including the clutch drive in the fourth that put us ahead. Outside of Iggy's fumble against Missouri, it seemed like we scored on almost every possession of the second half against Missouri. And even against ISU, we came out in the second half and put up 17 points, and probably get more than that if not for Murray's fumble.

Exactly. Wilson has done a great job. I think we forget a couple of factors, as well...Bradford is playing well but they're just parceling out the playbook as the team can handle it. We can't seem to consistently execute the plays we've got to make. Until we can do that, there's no great need to expand the play selection, which is more diverse than we think. And let's not discount the fact that a couple of defenses have played pretty well against us, too. Y'know, it's not like there's not another team on the field, and no matter who you are, you will not win on every play. The goal is to win a lot more of them than not.


There have been more wide open receivers this year than I can ever remember under Long, which says a lot about KW's ability to keep the defense off-balance.

I agree completely. Long was/is a good coach but not exceptionally imaginative. That's not a knock against him, but he's a little easier to defense than some others. Our offense this year has more talent than last season, but in terms of execution isn't much farther along than 2006, if you really look at the play history. Wide open receivers aren't much good if you don't make the good throw and/or they don't catch it. And our wide receiver corps are TERRIBLE run blockers. Seems like the only time they make a good block they get flagged for holding or a crackback. And that leads us to...


But I do agree that we need to improve in the running game, in terms of consistency. We're getting some big runs that distort some of the totals, IMO. I'd like to see us be more consistent at being able to pick up 6+ on the ground and wear teams down with sustained drives, like we did against ISU on our two TD drives.

I think nothing would make Stoops and Wilson happier, and us fans too. Remember, the goal is to gain 3.4 yards per play, and if you do that, SECURE THE BALL, you will move the ball, you will score, you will control the clock and you will win the game, assuming your defense is sound and your kicking game doesn't do a lousy job. Our struggles in the air did not help our running game, either. If you can at least pull off a defensive player in the secondary to keep covering a guy, he doesn't have to block, but the receiver's got to run the route like he KNOWS the ball is coming to him.

Our kickoff coverage was much better this past week, though in fairness we only had four kickoffs and ...two? or was it three?...were touchbacks. Punting was mostly okay, though Cohen had his first really bad day. I think Stoops was right about the wind...it affected the passing game and it had some effect on punting, too. Regardless, the game conditions are what they are and you have to play accordingly.

The 2007 Sooners will be fine, but frankly I don't see some of the mistakes getting fixed in the next two weeks. We'll continue to struggle some, though I think our schedule favors us. Mistakes are easier to overcome at home, usually. Tech would concern me more if they had really played anybody and if they knew how to mount a decent defense. A & M will be trouble for a half, but if we contain McGee they won't be a problem. Baylor...eh.

OSEwe could be trouble, too. We joke about them, but they've got a pretty good offense when it's working and their defense always seems to play like their lives on on the line when they're playing against the Sooners.

Key for success from here out will be approaching it one game at a time and eliminating the mistakes that are keeping us from being great.

[rhombic21]

With the talent we have, you really shouldn't have to play that way. I think what Stoops and Wilson are attempting to do is to get players to be fundamentally sound. This is Green Bay Packers-Lombardi era football: line up, mow 'em down and pass when you can.
I don't know that I agree with this. Based on your own assessment of Murray and Patrick, we lack a feature tailback. And we have all kinds of talent on the outside (especially when you consider Murray as a potential receiver out of the backfield). Do we really have the kind of team that is best suited to line up and play Vince Lombardi football? To be honest though, I'm not sure that anybody in college football is that much more talented than their opposition to just line up and run that style of offense.

I don't think we do, and I don't think that Kevin Wilson thinks that we do either. Part of my point in that last post is that we do actually try and mix things up a fair amount. We use tons of different formations, personnel groupings, and on the same drive we can go from an empty backfield look to a jumbo 3 TE look. I think Wilson does try and do things to create mismatches and catch people offguard, much moreso than Long ever did. And for the most part, I think he does a fairly good job. The only way that I question what we're doing is that it seems that we have a tendency to become somewhat predictable in certain situations. Not all game, not every situation, but there are certain formations or down-distance scenarios where I think we could mix things up better. I'm not necessarily calling for us to run a bunch of trick plays, or anything of that nature. I'm not even necessarily calling for us to add in more plays or formations, since we've already used a lot of this stuff this year (splitting Gresham or Murray out as a WR, using 2 HBs, faking the bubble screen and going up top, running the ball out of shotgun, etc...). I also think that we could do a better job of getting Murray the ball, whether it be on running plays, or on non-conventional plays. We did a fair amount of this early in the year via reverses and even splitting him out as a WR, but I think it needs to be a bigger part of the offense. He is way too talented to only touch the ball 10 or 12 times a game in plays from scrimmage.

[cvsooner]

Well, when you figure you're only going to get 80 snaps or so in a game, getting him an eighth of them seems reasonable at this stage in his career. If he'd hang on to the dang ball (i.e., not fumble) or catch the passes thrown his way, consistently, he'd get more touches. He will, eventually.

And let's not forget, Lombardi had pretty good luck with a great tailback (Paul Hornung) and the not-so-great (Elijah Pitts...who?).

It still boils down to EXECUTION.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Execution truly is key. Doesn't matter if we're passing or running, we have to be fundamentally sound. With the talent we have on the team we can do anything we want on the field as long as the players execute to their full ability.