Credit Card Query

[mdklatt]

I got a letter saying that they're going to raise the APR on cash advances on my credit card, but that I can reject the change if I send them a letter. I never use a credit card for cash advances, but is there any reason not to reject this change? Why do they even give you the choice to reject it--who is going to accept a higher APR? Will they cancel my card if I reject the change? The letter doesn't specify any consequences. What's their angle?

:confused:

[Widescreen]

Usually rejecting a change means closing the account (but still having to pay what you owe). Basically, you have to accept it or lose your card privilemages.

[frankensooner]

I think they can cancel your account if you reject the change. I am no expert in this area though.

[Widescreen]

You know who would be perfect for this? Froze. I hear tell he knows stuff about banks and such.

[mdklatt]

You know who would be perfect for this? Froze. I hear tell he knows stuff about banks and such.

I was waiting for him to answer until you two know-nothings got in the way.

;)

[Tear Down This Wall]

Credit card companies suck it. I'm forever getting we're changing this and that letters from them. I hardly even use the ones I have.

Too much small print. There should be a law against small print.

DECLARATION: I will vote for the first candidate - Republican, Democrat, Green Party, Suckfart Party (Libertarian/Ron Paul), etc. - who promises to outlaw small/fine print in agreements and advertising.

Yes.

[OUDoc]

Credit card companies suck it. I'm forever getting we're changing this and that letters from them. I hardly even use the ones I have.

Too much small print. There should be a law against small print.

DECLARATION: I will vote for the first candidate - Republican, Democrat, Green Party, Suckfart Party (Libertarian/Ron Paul), etc. - who promises to outlaw small/fine print in agreements and advertising.

Yes.
Hell, I'd vote for RuPaul if he'd/she'd stand up to the credit card companies BS practices.

[frankensooner]

Everyone's favorite political satirist, Al Franken, ( ;) )wrote a book where he ran for president on the single issue of ATM fees and won. ;)

[StoopTroup]

Ronald Reagan > Al Franken though....:D

[Frozen Sooner]

Usually rejecting a change means closing the account (but still having to pay what you owe). Basically, you have to accept it or lose your card privilemages.

Yep.

(And there are laws mandating how small disclosures can be printed.)

[mdklatt]

Yep.

(And there are laws mandating how small disclosures can be printed.)

I suppose I need to read my credit card agreement to get the full picture, huh? I seem to remember something in there about being able to reject changes in writing...which then gives them the right to close my account. Why even bother with all that? Why not just say, "We're changing your account. Suck it up or cancel." It's like being given the "option" to reject the terms of a EULA when you install software. If you reject, you can't install the software, so it's not really an option. F'in lawyers.

[handcrafted]

credit cards suck. credit card companies suck.

use a debit card or pay cash. You spend less and you can save, too.

[mdklatt]

use a debit card or pay cash. You spend less and you can save, too.

Paying cash is for suckers.

I pay off my balance every month and I get 1% cash back on my purchases, so I actually make a profit from my credit card. I get to keep money in my account as long as possible. I get to build my credit score. I don't have money taken out of my checking account when I make a hotel reservation. I don't have to worry about my checking account getting cleared if my debit card number is stolen.

[handcrafted]

Paying cash is for suckers.

I pay off my balance every month and I get 1% cash back on my purchases, so I actually make a profit from my credit card. I get to keep money in my account as long as possible. I get to build my credit score. I don't have money taken out of my checking account when I make a hotel reservation. I don't have to worry about my checking account getting cleared if my debit card number is stolen.

1. Oh, Discover. Yes, wonderful company. Make no mistake, if you pay off your balance, they hate you. No finance charge at all, huh? Nothing hidden?

2. How's that 1% workin' out for ya? How much more do you spend every month on your card trying to build up that 1%? Would you buy that stuff if you didn't have the card?

3. You don't need a credit score if you don't use credit.

4. Debit cards have all the safeguards of a credit card. I know plenty of people who've had issues with that and as soon as the bank knows you've been victimized, they re-credit your balance.

What flavor is the kool-aid, anyway?

[frankensooner]

Here is our dealio...Target had the red card. We use it everytime we shop there. After checking out we head over the the service desk and pay it off. For every 1000 bucks you spend, they give you a 10% off coupon good on everything. Every other month we save about 50-60 bucks! And they will give 1% of your purchases to the school of your choosing.

[handcrafted]

Here is our dealio...Target had the red card. We use it everytime we shop there. After checking out we head over the the service desk and pay it off. For every 1000 bucks you spend, they give you a 10% off coupon good on everything. Every other month we save about 50-60 bucks! And they will give 1% of your purchases to the school of your choosing.

What happens if you want to shop at Wal-Mart instead?

[mdklatt]

1. Oh, Discover. Yes, wonderful company. Make no mistake, if you pay off your balance, they hate you. No finance charge at all, huh? Nothing hidden?

Visa, actually. No annual fees, no hidden charges. Do they hate me? Don't know, don't care.



Would you buy that stuff if you didn't have the card?


Food, gasoline, and haircuts? Yes.





3. You don't need a credit score if you don't use credit.


I'll keep that in mind when I want to buy a car or a house. :rolleyes:




4. Debit cards have all the safeguards of a credit card. I know plenty of people who've had issues with that and as soon as the bank knows you've been victimized, they re-credit your balance.


That's up to the issuer. I don't think debit cards have the same protections under the law as a credit card. At one time, my BoA debit card agreement stated that they would only cover the first $100 or so.

The last time I used my debit card for anything but an ATM was to make a hotel reservation (about three months in the future), and they immediately took money out of my account to cover the first night. Screw that. A hold on your credit card merely merely counts against your limit, but a hold on your debit card comes out of your account.

[frankensooner]

What happens if you want to shop at Wal-Mart instead?
EWWWWW!!!!! Why would I want to do that? ;) Target gives me 10% off!

If you shop at wallyworld, just use your debit card.

[handcrafted]

I'll keep that in mind when I want to buy a car or a house. :rolleyes:



Best thing you can have when buying a house is no credit history whatsoever. Lenders will bend over backwards for a first-time homebuyer with a clean sheet. You do not need a credit history to get a mortgage. And yes, mortgages are an exception from the no credit rule.

As far as cars go, buy used. Pay cash. A new car on credit is the worst investment you can make. It loses 50% of it's value the minute you drive off the lot, and you are upside-down on the loan most of the way until it's paid off. And you can't deduct the interest. You want to pay $30,000 for a $20,000 car, and sell it for $2000 when it wears out, be my guest.

[mdklatt]

Best thing you can have when buying a house is no credit history whatsoever. Lenders will bend over backwards for a first-time homebuyer with a clean sheet. You do not need a credit history to get a mortgage. And yes, mortgages are an exception from the no credit rule.


Is no credit history preferable to a good credit history? Having no major credit history was not a good thing when I bought my car.

[Widescreen]

What happens if you want to shop at Wal-Mart instead?
He'd probably shop at walmart. I'm guessing there wasn't a clause in his target card mandating that he could only shop at target.

[Hamhock]

you spend 30% more, on average, if you're using plastic vs. prying the bills from your wallet.

credit cards suck. i used to do the same thing, i'd payoff my balance every month. i noticed that i needed this month's paycheck to pay off last month's credit card bills. i didn't like that.

cash is king.

[mdklatt]

you spend 30% more, on average, if you're using plastic vs. prying the bills from your wallet.



I suppose I could put 30% less gas in my car when I go the gas station, but I don't think that saves you any money in the long run.

[Hamhock]

I suppose I could put 30% less gas in my car when I go the gas station, but I don't think that saves you any money in the long run.


guess i missed the post that said you only put gas on the card. coulda swore I read something about food and hotels.

[handcrafted]

Is no credit history preferable to a good credit history? Having no major credit history was not a good thing when I bought my car.

Mortgages are completely and utterly different than consumer purchase loans. Lemme 'splain...no, is too much. Lemme sum up: if you have credit cards, even if they are zero balanced, the mortgage company will count them as potential monthly debt and gig you on your score, especially if you are buying too much house as most people do.

OTOH, if you have no cards at all, and your monthly income is decent and you have some downpayment (like 20%), you can qualify for a good sized mortgage and the best interest rate available. And lenders spooge on first time homebuyers with that situation, because they represent the lowest risk possible and the greatest return. They'll practically wine and dine you.

When my wife and I bought our house we were limited in our choices because of what we would qualify for. We both had about a dozen credit cards between us, most of which were empty and the few that had a balance had been paid off the previous month. We had to wait until 2 years ago to build equity and re-finance to get it the way we wanted it originally.

[handcrafted]

He'd probably shop at walmart. I'm guessing there wasn't a clause in his target card mandating that he could only shop at target.

No, he'd keep shopping at Target to work toward that 10%...of stuff at Target. So even if the same item is on sale at Walmart, he'll buy it...at Target. For full price.

Basically he's now a slave to Target. Good marketing, no?

[mdklatt]

guess i missed the post that said you only put gas on the card. coulda swore I read something about food and hotels.

Yeah, groceries. I'm gonna have to buy cereal and toilet paper whether or not I use cash. I'm not sure how I'd save any money by paying cash for a hotel room, either. There was that one time a couple of years ago I splurged and bought a CD for myself. I guess that purchase wouldn't have happened if I only paid for things with cash because I bought it online.

Making blanket assertions like "never use a credit card" is silly. It all depends on the person using the card. If you have no self control over your spending or the discipline to pay off the balance each month, then no you probably shouldn't use it unless you have to. If you're paying 0% APR because you never carry a balance, and taking advantage of the rewards program, it's silly not to use it.

If you pay for everything in cash, how often do you have to go to an ATM? How much cash are you carrying around at once, begging to get lost or stolen? How fastidious are you about avoiding ATM fees?

[TopDaugIn2000]

What happens if you want to shop at Wal-Mart instead?

use my Oklahoma Access card like all the other shoppers there.

I'd rather drive upholstery tacks into my gums than shop at the walmartS

[Widescreen]

No, he'd keep shopping at Target to work toward that 10%...of stuff at Target. So even if the same item is on sale at Walmart, he'll buy it...at Target. For full price.

Basically he's now a slave to Target. Good marketing, no?
Well, I can't speak for mdk but that's not how I operate. I have a Best Buy rewards card that gives me gift certificates for certain $ amounts of purchases. So everything being equal, I'll shop at Best Buy. But if something's on sale elsewhere, I'll buy it for the cheaper price.

[mdklatt]

n/m

[mdklatt]

No, he'd keep shopping at Target to work toward that 10%...of stuff at Target. So even if the same item is on sale at Walmart, he'll buy it...at Target. For full price.


Why do you think everyone is financially incompetent and incapable of determining what the best deal is? If the sale price somewhere else is less than 10% lower than the Target price, you're better off getting it at Target...assuming you'll be spending that credit at Target sooner or later, which is a pretty good assumption for a store like Target.

[TopDaugIn2000]

I did the rewards thing when I bought my TV, I was spending over 5K so I figured "why the hell not?"

put the rewards certificates and a couple of gifts cards I got for Christmas in on some Bose speakers for the TV.

[Frozen Sooner]

Mortgages are completely and utterly different than consumer purchase loans. Lemme 'splain...no, is too much. Lemme sum up: if you have credit cards, even if they are zero balanced, the mortgage company will count them as potential monthly debt and gig you on your score, especially if you are buying too much house as most people do.

OTOH, if you have no cards at all, and your monthly income is decent and you have some downpayment (like 20%), you can qualify for a good sized mortgage and the best interest rate available. And lenders spooge on first time homebuyers with that situation, because they represent the lowest risk possible and the greatest return. They'll practically wine and dine you.

When my wife and I bought our house we were limited in our choices because of what we would qualify for. We both had about a dozen credit cards between us, most of which were empty and the few that had a balance had been paid off the previous month. We had to wait until 2 years ago to build equity and re-finance to get it the way we wanted it originally.

I can tell you unequivocally that what you are saying with regards to lenders preferring people with no credit history is 100% false.

[handcrafted]

I can tell you unequivocally that what you are saying with regards to lenders preferring people with no credit history is 100% false.

Tell that to my lender.

[handcrafted]

You people really need a big heaping dose of Dave Ramsey.

[Frozen Sooner]

OK.

Can I also explain it to my regulators, who also disagree with your lender?

[handcrafted]

OK.

Can I also explain it to my regulators, who also disagree with your lender?

Churchill Mortgage, go right ahead.

[handcrafted]

Let Dave 'splain:


I’m 30-years old, single and I want to know how I can build a credit history in order to get a home loan. I’ve never had loans or car payments or anything like that. When I talked to a mortgage broker he said in order to get a loan or be pre-qualified I’d have to pay extra because they’d have to do my credit report manually.

Nancy in Michigan



Dear Nancy –



You need to get a new mortgage broker, because this guy’s lazy. Most underwriters just pull it off a FICO score, and that’s based on whether or not you have debt and a long credit history. If you don’t have a big, long credit history they actually have to look at the paper with their eyes and examine it for a few minutes. That’s what “manually” means. It’s not like they have to dig a ditch or something.

Here’s the deal. Even if all you’ve ever done is pay your rent on time or early, you have a credit history - and in that case, a good one. You don’t have to run up a bunch of debt to have a credit history! I’ve even heard these people say that you need to have a car payment and several credit cards just to have a credit history and have a shot at a home loan.

The fact is, if you have several credit cards – even if you have zero balances and you’ve paid everything on time – it counts against you when you try to get a mortgage. Any decent underwriter would realize a person in that situation was an accident looking for a place to happen.

- Dave

[Widescreen]

I don't think people would argue that paying cash is the best way to do almost everything. I'm trying to dig my family out of deep debt right now. However, IMO it's important to still have a credit card for a variety of things. Previously we were undisciplined with it. Now we are extremely disciplined. It's all about what you use it for.

[handcrafted]

I don't think people would argue that paying cash is the best way to do almost everything. I'm trying to dig my family out of deep debt right now. However, IMO it's important to still have a credit card for a variety of things. Previously we were undisciplined with it. Now we are extremely disciplined. It's all about what you use it for.

I admire you for trying to get out from under, Wide. I and my family did it 2 years ago.

Trust me, you can use a debit card for anything you can use a credit card for, and it's just as safe. Remove the temptation. Build up an emergency savings so if something bad happens you don't have to use a credit card.

www.daveramsey.com

Financial Peace, bro. Live it, it works.

[Frozen Sooner]

Churchill Mortgage, go right ahead.

Cool. I'll have them chat with NCUA. They seem pretty jazzed about not making large loans with preferential interest rates to people without credit history.

And a decent underwriter who looks at a credit report with 20 years of no-balance credit cards would think "Hey, look, someone who's responsible with credit and isn't likely to go crazy with it."

Conversely, looking at a credit report with no credit history is a red flag for "Hey, as soon as these guys get a house they're going to get inundated with credit card offers and not know how to handle it."

But, you know, my decade of lending experience means that I don't know what I'm talking about here.

[handcrafted]

Cool. I'll have them chat with NCUA. They seem pretty jazzed about not making large loans with preferential interest rates to people without credit history.

And a decent underwriter who looks at a credit report with 20 years of no-balance credit cards would think "Hey, look, someone who's responsible with credit and isn't likely to go crazy with it."

Conversely, looking at a credit report with no credit history is a red flag for "Hey, as soon as these guys get a house they're going to get inundated with credit card offers and not know how to handle it."

But, you know, my decade of lending experience means that I don't know what I'm talking about here.

And the fact that I'm a consumer who has both bought and re-financed a house and done a lot of research means that I'm clueless. :rolleyes:

[Frozen Sooner]

Not clueless. Just wrong.

[handcrafted]

Not clueless. Just wrong.

So, my underwriters have all been indecent?

[Frozen Sooner]

Were they wearing low-cut tops? 'Cause I find that sort of indecent. But mainly cool.

[handcrafted]

No offense, Froz, but I take self proclaimed "financial experts" with a grain of salt these days. I've been led down the primrose path enough times that I've developed a healthy cynicism. I'm especially ****ed at the guy who told me to sell my Apple stock when it hit $30 a share because it wasn't going any higher. I bought at $15 a share in 2002. Since I sold it, it split and is now trading at $186 a share.

[Frozen Sooner]

No offense taken. I don't claim to be a financial expert at all-simply someone who's worked in the credit and lending industry for over a decade now. I would never presume to give you any kind of specific securities advice at all-particularly I would never guarantee that a stock would never go higher unless I had some inside information about a pending bankruptcy or something.

I tend to take self-proclaimed financial experts who dish out blanket advice-such as Dave Ramsey or Suze Orman-with a whole salt lick as well. A lot of what they say is really good, but a lot of it is WAY too one-size-fits-all.

I will say that for the vast majority of borrowers, having an established credit history with minimal credit card debt makes buying a home much easier than if they have no established credit history at all. In fact, I can't think of a single circumstance where I'd rather lend to someone with no credit history than someone with a good credit history if all else is equal.

[Mixer!]

So what's this scam all about, Mike? (http://www.findoutmorenow.com/)

[Frozen Sooner]

I'll refer you to the esteemed Mr. Barnum on that.

[Mixer!]

Another Q: Since so many folks filed bankruptcy before the laws changed in 2005, what kind of approval/rejection level can they expect when trying to secure a mortgage after the seven years are up?

[mdklatt]

Mortgages are completely and utterly different than consumer purchase loans. Lemme 'splain...no, is too much. Lemme sum up: if you have credit cards, even if they are zero balanced, the mortgage company will count them as potential monthly debt and gig you on your score, especially if you are buying too much house as most people do.

I just got a credit evaluation for agreeing to try one of those privacy protection services. It's got my credit reports and scores from the three reporting agencies, along with an explanation of what effects your scores:

Having accounts with a high credit limit or loan amount is a positive factor, because it indicates that other lenders have trusted you with a lot of credit in the past. On the other hand, having accounts with low credit limits or loan amounts is a negative factor. It may suggest that your credit reports contained information that was of concern to lenders at the time they determined your credit limits. Finally, having no accounts with a reported credit limit or loan amount is a negative factor because lenders cannot determine how much other lenders have trusted you so far.

I know that you can have too much credit, but your ratio of credit to debt is a what lenders pay attention to. If you pay off your card every month, this ratio is going to be good. It also helps to have a clean payment history (no defaults or delinquent payments).

Having credit accounts for a long time is a positive factor because your credit history allows lenders to evaluate how you typically use and repay your debts.



OTOH, if you have no cards at all, and your monthly income is decent and you have some downpayment (like 20%), you can qualify for a good sized mortgage and the best interest rate available. And lenders spooge on first time homebuyers with that situation, because they represent the lowest risk possible and the greatest return. They'll practically wine and dine you.


Having no credit history and no open credit cards is not the same thing.

[Frozen Sooner]

Another Q: Since so many folks filed bankruptcy before the laws changed in 2005, what kind of approval/rejection level can they expect when trying to secure a mortgage after the seven years are up?

Depends on what they've been doing over those last seven years. If they took the opportunity to start over again and rebuilt their credit history the right way, they won't have that big a problem even three to four years later. If they went back out and racked up big bills, they're going to have some problems.

[mdklatt]

You people really need a big heaping dose of Dave Ramsey.


Dear Dave Ramsey,

If I want to pay for everything with my credit card and earn 1% cash back instead of carrying around a wad of cash like some Guido I'm damn well gonna do it. So suck it.

[mdklatt]

The identity protection thingy I'm trying out has an online feature that lets you play "what if" with your credit scores. My credit scores wouldn't change at all if I close the credit card account that I rarely use, and they would decrease by an average of 25 points if I closed both credit cards. Dave Ramsey can kiss my debt-free ***.

[Hamhock]

In general, getting the 1% back is less (I think) than the 30% more people typically spend when using credit cards instead of paying cash.

[mdklatt]

In general, getting the 1% back is less (I think) than the 30% more people typically spend when using credit cards instead of paying cash.

Once again, what makes you think I spend more with a credit card than I would with cash? Oh look, I've gotta a credit card. I'm gonna buy a new LCD TV while I'm here at Wal-Mart buying groceries. You know nothing about me, but I can tell that I am pathologically tight with money--plastic or otherwise. Not everybody lacks self control. Some of us are perfectly capable of keeping our **** together without Dave Ramsey.

[Okla-homey]

I got a letter saying that they're going to raise the APR on cash advances on my credit card, but that I can reject the change if I send them a letter. I never use a credit card for cash advances, but is there any reason not to reject this change? Why do they even give you the choice to reject it--who is going to accept a higher APR? Will they cancel my card if I reject the change? The letter doesn't specify any consequences. What's their angle?

:confused:

Bottomline: RYFK

(that's legalese for "read your flippin' contract.");)

[mdklatt]

Bottomline: RYFK

(that's legalese for "read your flippin' contract.");)

Here's the deal about the letter. It only tells me that I can reject some of the policy changes. It doesn't say I can't reject any of the other changes, but it only specifically gives instructions for how to reject some of the changes. If by rejecting any of the changes I'm basically canceling my account, why specifically mention which changes I can reject? I've gotten plenty of policy change notices before, but not one like this. It's just weird.

[Hamhock]

Once again, what makes you think I spend more with a credit card than I would with cash? Oh look, I've gotta a credit card. I'm gonna buy a new LCD TV while I'm here at Wal-Mart buying groceries. You know nothing about me, but I can tell that I am pathologically tight with money--plastic or otherwise. Not everybody lacks self control..

Please refer to the first two words of my post. IN GENERAL, it has been PROVEN that Americans spend more when using plastic.

I can also tell you that, from my experience, it wasn't the LCD TV that made up the 30%, it was a lot of the small extrey stuff. Appetizer/dessert at dinner, fancy cheese at the grocery store, double lap dances instead of single, etc.



Some of us are perfectly capable of keeping our **** together without Dave Ramsey.


Not saying you're incapable. Many, if not most, Americans are not. See the current US savings rate, home foreclosures, credit card debt levels etc.

[OUinFLA]

Ive had a GM card for about 15 years.
I get 5% back on a GM car purchase up to $500 per year for up to 7 years accumulation. When it was first issued to me I got 10%. They changed that.
I have bought a new truck at least every 4 years, and taken about 2 grand off the bottom line of the deal.

I have a Citi Drivers Edge card that gives me 3% back on any vehicle I purchase I've used that every time I have purchased a car for my wife.

Ive considered them both excellent deals and financially to my advantage.
Those are the only cards I use.

[Hamhock]

Ive had a GM card for about 15 years.
I get 5% back on a GM car purchase up to $500 per year for up to 7 years accumulation. When it was first issued to me I got 10%. They changed that.
I have bought a new truck at least every 4 years, and taken about 2 grand off the bottom line of the deal.

I have a Citi Drivers Edge card that gives me 3% back on any vehicle I purchase I've used that every time I have purchased a car for my wife.

Ive considered them both excellent deals and financially to my advantage.
Those are the only cards I use.


most people who don't want to use credit cards also don't want to finance/buy new cars.

[Okla-homey]

Here's the deal about the letter. It only tells me that I can reject some of the policy changes. It doesn't say I can't reject any of the other changes, but it only specifically gives instructions for how to reject some of the changes. If by rejecting any of the changes I'm basically canceling my account, why specifically mention which changes I can reject? I've gotten plenty of policy change notices before, but not one like this. It's just weird.

Even so, your contract should state which terms (if any) are subject to change by agreement of both parties, or unilaterally on the part of either party.

[Widescreen]

most people who don't want to use credit cards also don't want to finance/buy new cars.
Where are the stats that show this? I like Dave Ramsey but you have to understand that not everyone that chooses not to use credit cards hates any kind of debt with the white hot passion of 1000 suns. Debt is not inherently evil. Many types of debt are. A lot of it depends on the consumer. One of these days, I expect I'll be able to scream "I'M DEBT FREE (except for my house)" and I'll be perfectly fine with that.

[Hamhock]

Where are the stats that show this? I like Dave Ramsey but you have to understand that not everyone that chooses not to use credit cards hates any kind of debt with the white hot passion of 1000 suns. Debt is not inherently evil. Many types of debt are. A lot of it depends on the consumer. One of these days, I expect I'll be able to scream "I'M DEBT FREE (except for my house)" and I'll be perfectly fine with that.


no stats. just my opinion/experience that most people who don't use credit cards do so because they don't want debt. i could be wrong.

what is the reason for not using a credit card if not for an aversion to debt.

in my mind, debt is debt. interest is the price you pay for instant gratification whether for a big screen, new car, or house.

p.s. I understand that in commercial situations, it may be necessary to borrow money when said borrowed money is likely to enable you to earn more than the interest.

[Widescreen]

no stats. just my opinion/experience that most people who don't use credit cards do so because they don't want debt. i could be wrong.
Got it. If you read your initial statement, it doesn't sound like an opinion, it looks like a statement of fact.


what is the reason for not using a credit card if not for an aversion to debt.
Banks are greedy and suck at the highest magnitude. If it was like it was back in the day where the terms of the card were essentially unchanging, fewer people would be averse to using them (IMO). Now, the consumer has no recourse when the plans change and the banks basically say "we can change the terms at any time for any reason" so it's best to just avoid the credit cards altogether. I anticipate I'll always have a credit card. However, when I get all of mine paid off, I will continue to do what I'm doing now - if I use it, I pay it in full right away. That way they can pretty much use whatever terms they want and it won't affect me at all.

I've transferred a lot of my debt to low/no interest credit cards with Capital One and on the agreement it explicitly states that the rate and terms on the transferred balances will not change for any reason. They're the only ones I've seen that do this. Pretty reassuring. Of course, they can still charge exorbitant late fees if I'm late on a payment.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Paying cash is for suckers.

I pay off my balance every month and I get 1% cash back on my purchases, so I actually make a profit from my credit card. I get to keep money in my account as long as possible. I get to build my credit score. I don't have money taken out of my checking account when I make a hotel reservation. I don't have to worry about my checking account getting cleared if my debit card number is stolen.

I do the same thing with a Citicard Platinum Rewards Card. It's actually got some good stuff, cash or "points." The deal is, if you use it to pay utility bills, they double your points.

Still, I hate small print...and I've got a law degree! :eek:

[OUinFLA]

most people who don't want to use credit cards also don't want to finance/buy new cars.

my situation had nothing to do with financing a new car. You get the accumulated rebate discount even if you pay cash for the vehicle. Plus, it can be applied to a used vehicle as well.

the only new car financing I have participated in over the past 6 years has been taking advantage of zero % offers, and then only if the cash rebate didn't offset the expected earnings of going the zero percent route.

but, I thought this thread was a question from someone who did use credit cards.

If you pay them off each month, credit cards are not the debil.

[Hamhock]

Got it. If you read your initial statement, it doesn't sound like an opinion, it looks like a statement of fact.

shame on you for thinking the two are different :texan:


i give up.

credit cards and other debt are the best. everyone should get a lot.

[r5TPsooner]

Interesting subject. I'm one of those people that pay off there balance every month whether it's $1 or $1000. However, the misses and I were on our way to Norman for the OU-MU game and needed to stop at the ATM for cash. For some reason our IBC (The Bank sucks BTW) debit card wasn't being read by the ATM so we used our credit card for cash. I just received the statement and they charged me $10 for any type of cash advance!

I was ****ed off but I should have read the fine print. The card has a nice APR 8.9%, but they screw you everywhere else.

I really can't blame them but I should have read the fine print better as being charged $10 a transaction for my own money is nonsense... especially when I've never carried a balance in the two years that I've had the card.

I want to call them and bitch but I doubt that it would do any good.

IMHO credit cards are great for making reservations and purchasing fuel for transportation. Other than that, they are destroying the financial infrastructure of America because most people don't have the will power not to use them when they can't afford to pay them of every month.

[Widescreen]

At least you had the ability to get the cash. In an emergency, the $10 would seem pretty fair. Technically, you weren't withdrawing your money, you were taking out a cash loan.

Note that I hate bank fees as much as anybody, but cash advances should definitely be a last resort.

Side story...
I used to work with a guy that had gotten in a bunch of credit card debt and he decided he'd go to Vegas and try to win enough to pay off his credit cards. How did he finance this trip - including gambling money? Yep, cash advance. He lost it all. He was by far the biggest dumas I've ever known. This is a guy who tried to pass his dog's vet bills through our company's medical reimbursement plan after accidentally shooting the dog. Unbelievable. His wife (who is a dumas of equal accomplishment) went jetskiing with their 1 week old baby strapped in a sling on her back.