Turkey Recalls Ambassador

[Howzit]

I don't get it. As much as we rely on Turkey for mid-east logistics, why in the world would this be a desirable resolution?

Can someone 'splain por favor?





http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/11/us.turkey.armenians/index.html



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Turkey has recalled its ambassador to the United States in response to a House resolution that would call the World War I massacre of Armenians by Turkish forces genocide, the Turkish Foreign Ministry said Thursday.
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/POLITICS/10/11/us.turkey.armenians/art.incirlik.file.afp.gi.jpg U.S. Air Force planes prepare to take off from Incirlik Airbase in Turkey in this file photo.


http://www.cnn.com/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif


The House Committee on Foreign Affairs passed the measure 27-21 Wednesday, even though President Bush and key administration figures lobbied hard against it. The full House is expected to vote on it, possibly Friday.
A top Turkish official warned Thursday that consequences "won't be pleasant" if the full House approves the resolution.
"Yesterday some in Congress wanted to play hardball," said Egemen Bagis, foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. "I can assure you Turkey knows how to play hardball."
Asked about Ambassador Nabi Sensoy's recall after the news broke, a State Department spokesman said he could not confirm it. "People are sometimes called back for consultation; sometimes they're called back for other reasons," said spokesman Tom Casey.
"If they wanted to bring their ambassador back for consultations or do something else, that is their decision. I certainly think that it will not do anything to limit our efforts to continue to reach out to Turkish officials, to explain our views, to engage them on this issue and again to make clear that we intend to work on this with Congress."
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Casey and White House spokeswoman Dana Perinosaid they both would like to see the resolution withdrawn without a vote by the full House. However, Casey said, "I don't think anyone is expecting that to happen at this point."
Democratic leaders said earlier if the Foreign Affairs Committee passed the resolution, they intended to bring it to the House floor. http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch why the resolution stirs strong emotions » (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/11/us.turkey.armenians/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)
The House was not in session Thursday because of the funeral of Rep. Jo Ann Davis of Virginia, who died Saturday. Members may vote on the resolution Friday.
Turkey, a NATO member, has been a key U.S. ally in the Middle East and a conduit for sending supplies into Iraq.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Wednesday that good relations with Turkey are vital because 70 percent of the air cargo intended for U.S. forces in Iraq and 30 percent of the fuel consumed by those forces fly through Turkey.
U.S. commanders "believe clearly that access to airfields and roads and so on in Turkey would very much be put at risk if this resolution passes and the Turks react as strongly as we believe they will," Gates said.
Bagis said no French planes have flown through Turkish airspace since a French Parliament committee passed a similar resolution last year.
He said the response to the U.S. might not be the same, but warned if the full House passes it that "we will do something, and I can promise you it won't be pleasant."
Bagis spoke to reporters while in Washington to attend a meeting of the Carnegie Endowment.
In a statement on his Web site, Turkish President Abdullah Gul said the resolution was "unacceptable" and "doesn't fit a major power like the United States."
In a letter to Bush, Gul warned that "in the case that Armenian allegations are accepted, there will be serious problems in the relations between the two countries."
"We still hope that common sense will prevail and that the House of Representatives will not move this resolution any further," the Turkish Foreign Ministry Web site said.
The vote was also strongly criticized by Turkish newspapers, The Associated Press reported. "Bill of Hatred," said Hurriyet's front page, while Vatan's headline read "27 Foolish Americans."
Casey said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice planned to speak with the Turkish foreign minister about the issue later Thursday and had requested calls with Erdogan and Gul.
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack issued a statement expressing "regret" for the committee's action, warning the resolution "may do grave harm to U.S.-Turkish relations and to U.S. interests in Europe and the Middle East."
The nonbinding House resolution said the deportation of nearly 2 million Armenians from the Ottoman Empire between 1915 and 1923, resulting in the deaths of 1.5 million of them, amounted to "genocide."
Turks strongly reject the genocide label, insisting there was no organized campaign against the Armenians and that many Turks also died in the chaos and violence of the period.
Sensoy said the resolution's passage would be a "very injurious move to the psyche of the Turkish people."
He predicted a backlash in the country, saying there would be setbacks on several fronts: Turkish-American relations, Turkish-Armenian relations and the normalization of relations between the nations of Turkey (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/turkey) and Armenia (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/armenia).
The resolution's sponsor, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-California, said the measure already had 226 co-sponsors, more than enough votes to pass "and the most support an Armenian genocide resolution has ever received."
A similar resolution passed the committee by a 40-7 vote two years ago, but it never reached the full House floor.
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The resolution arrives at a particularly sensitive point in U.S.-Turkish relations. The United States has urged Turkey not to send its troops over the border into northern Iraq to fight Kurdish separatist rebels, who have launched some cross-border attacks against Turkish targets.
Observers of U.S.-Turkish relations have argued the House resolution could make Turkey less inclined to use restraint in dealing with its longstanding problems with the Kurdistan (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/kurdistan) Workers

[royalfan5]

I have never understood why congress spends so much time dicking around with non-binding resolutions on completely meaningless issues such as this one.

[yermom]

maybe it's because they want to **** off the Turks to make the war harder to fight??

did the Armenians come out and say something and ask the US and France's opinion or something?

there isn't a lot about this that makes sense to me.

[SteelClip49]

I just didn't think Mr. Butterball was cutting it.

[jeremy885]

While I believe there was an Armenian Genocide, why do this when the only thing it can do is hurt American national security. The Turks are about a heart beat away from invading Northern Iraq to get at the PKK fighters.

I'm surprised that the Turks haven't introduced a non binding resolution condemning the genocide of the Indians by the US government in the 1800's. How is the Armenian Genocide any different then the Trail of Tears other than they were 100 years a part?

[TUSooner]

Congress am idiots

[royalfan5]

On a side note, there really isn't a more unfortunately located group of people than the Armenians, except for maybe the Poles. But the Armenians generally got a worse deal than the Poles did.

[SoonerProphet]

Big lobby. Not the first time a politician has cast a vote to get more than cast a vote to protect national interests.

[jeremy885]

On a side note, there really isn't a more unfortunately located group of people than the Armenians, except for maybe the Poles. But the Armenians generally got a worse deal than the Poles did.

I think the Indians would disagree with you.

[royalfan5]

I think the Indians would disagree with you.
The Indians weren't trapped between too much bigger country's that hated them either. The Armenians got genocided from both directions.

[jeremy885]

US, Spain, England, to name a few. They lost control of two continents and had their culture almost completely destroyed by people who thought they were subhuman.

[royalfan5]

US, Spain, England, to name a few. They lost control of two continents and had their culture almost completely destroyed by people who thought they were subhuman.
That really has nothing to do with their location though. They were much more favorable located than the Armenians were.

[jeremy885]

The Armenians at least still have a country. What Indian tribe still is an independent nation?

[Widescreen]

Turkeys have that stuff in them what makes you wanna sleep. Acetominophen or sumpin.

[Howzit]

Turkeys have that stuff in them what makes you wanna sleep. Acetominophen or sumpin.

Dumas. It's triglycerin.

[yermom]

That really has nothing to do with their location though. They were much more favorable located than the Armenians were.

yeah, at least the Spaniards, et, al... needed boats to get to them

[royalfan5]

The Armenians at least still have a country. What Indian tribe still is an independent nation?
Again, the fact that no tribe exists as an independent nation has no real bearing on locational factors. Plus you could make the argument that some other South American nations are essential dominated by indigenous people now.

[47straight]

The key difference for modern times, my friends, between the Armenian situation and the Indian situation, is that the American treatment of the Indians is taught in schools, widely acknowledged and despised, and in active discourse to continue to repair the damage done.

The Turks deny a genocide happened, and further restrict the rights of those who say it did happen. When the Microsoft Encarta encyclopedia was being produced, it was to include a section on the Armenian genocide. The government of Turkey threatened to arrest all Microsoft employees in Turkey if it was published. (And this is the sort of stuff the EU wants in???)

Now, that's not to say that the US House's move was a smart one, or to what degree we should remain pragmatic. But the fact is that Turkey continues to be a bunch of bastards on this issue.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I have Turkish friends and am a big believer of keeping good relations with that region's only stable democracy, but it's long past time that the Turks came to grips with this issue. An honest dialogue about what happened in that period would do much more for their world standing than trying to quelch any mention of it.

This should not be construed as an endorsement of the House's action. Once again Congress is meddling where it doesn't belong.

[SteelClip49]

tryptophan makes me sleepy

[Harry Beanbag]

The Legislative Branch should be disbanded so we can start over.

[Mjcpr]

The Armenians at least still have a country. What Indian tribe still is an independent nation?

RiverWindiztan.

[Melo]

There are a LOT of people fighting for US recognition of the Armo genocide.

I believe that the Turks today do not want to recognize the genocide, because they do not want to believe themselves that their ancestors could commit such crimes.

I have quite a few Armo friends, even speak a little bit of the language. The deep feelings these people have towards Turkey are amazing. I have one friend who doesnt like talking about it much, but he can only trace his family tree back 3-4 generations. It stops. Because his grandparents fled Armenia when the genocide occurred. They were kids, and did not have the knowledge on who their family was. Do a image search, and find the pictures of the walls that the Turks lined with the skulls of Armenia's scholars, musicians and artists. Find the pictures of the dead children and parents piled high.

And yes, Armos still have their country, but it is diminished from what it once was. Ask an Armo about Mt. Ararat, and how it is a national symbol of their country, and how they can look out from anywhere in Yerevan and see the mountain still, and how it is not 'their's' but it belongs to Turkey.

Now dont take what I say wrong, I dont prefer Armenia over my own country. I just find it disappointing that the massacre of 1.5 million people is not taught in schools. I find it disappointing that not many people know about this, and even fewer seem to care about what happened. I find it disturbing that it happened, and no one did a single thing about it. While trying to persuade his assistants, advisors, etc, Hitler was quoted to have said, "Our strength lies in our intensive attacks and our barbarity...After all, who today remembers the genocide of the Armenians?”

[OUDoc]

Thank God congress isn't wasting all that money I send them.

[jeremy885]

I hear what you are saying and I agree that it should be talked about more. I worked an Armenian family, who has just immigrated from Armenia, for a couple of years. I learned a lot about their culture and history. However, this resolution does nothing but hurt the United States. If the genocide was happening now or if we weren't in Iraq, I would probably support what Congress is doing, but now is not the time to bring this up. We are at war and ****ing off one of our few allies in the region is not be a good thing.

[OCUDad]

It disturbs me that some of the younger generation refer to Armenians as "Armos." I think it's rude and disrespectful, even if the youngsters who use the abbreviation are themselves of Armenian descent. I won't bother listing the pejorative equivalents for other ethnicities.

[Howzit]

Yes, and when they call people from the United Arab Emirates 'emo' that fits into the same categoricalness.

I hear Jr say "Go cry Emo kid." I corrected her and said, "No sweetie, its 'Go cry Emo A-rab'."

[soonerloyal]

Well, that lets out any references to raghe*ds that I was gonna make in the future...

But say, why don't we start refocusing on the myriad of messes we have here, before we screw anything else up somewhere else? All three branches of gubmint are FUBAR and in need of dire remodeling/replacement. The beautiful model our Founding Fathers created for us is gonna be on life support if we don't start TCOOB.

[Chuck Bao]

Okay, we are only one-two generations from mass genocide atrocities. That's not a bad thing to keep in mind.

The fact that it is "we" as in all of us, not just the Germans, Japanese, Turks, etc., sort of drives home the point.

[Melo]

It disturbs me that some of the younger generation refer to Armenians as "Armos." I think it's rude and disrespectful, even if the youngsters who use the abbreviation are themselves of Armenian descent. I won't bother listing the pejorative equivalents for other ethnicities.

I never even thought of it as being disrespectful. I picked it up from my buddies.

[TUSooner]

Yes, and when they call people from the United Arab Emirates 'emo' that fits into the same categoricalness.

I hear Jr say "Go cry Emo kid." I corrected her and said, "No sweetie, its 'Go cry Emo A-rab'."

But then, you're just a really sensitive kind of guy.

:P

[OCUDad]

Not singling you out, Melo. When I was your age, I picked up a bunch of words from my buddies that were, shall we say, uncomplimentary. As a person of Armenian descent, I find "Armo" about as pleasant as a Japanese person might find the term "Jap" (a word I picked up from my buddies when I was younger).

Just food for thought.

[BU BEAR]

Would Turkey cut off its nose to spite its face?

There is a threat gathering in Iran which is a big concern to the Turks. Will Turkey not allow us to use Turkish airspace to deal with the Iranian threat? Maybe. Will Congress's short sighted act indirectly lead to Iran going nuclear? Possibly.

[KaiserSooner]

I'm surprised that the Turks haven't introduced a non binding resolution condemning the genocide of the Indians by the US government in the 1800's. How is the Armenian Genocide any different then the Trail of Tears other than they were 100 years a part?

I would have no problem with the Turkish parliament doing this.

[KaiserSooner]

On a side note, there really isn't a more unfortunately located group of people than the Armenians, except for maybe the Poles. But the Armenians generally got a worse deal than the Poles did.

The Armenians are unfortunately located, to put it bureaucratically. But I'd say the Kurds are in much more of a bind, being spread across four or so countries, and not having a sovereign nation-state of their own.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Dumas. It's triglycerin.Har! Public spec!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I have Turkish friends and am a big believer of keeping good relations with that region's only stable democracy, but it's long past time that the Turks came to grips with this issue. An honest dialogue about what happened in that period would do much more for their world standing than trying to quelch any mention of it.

This should not be construed as an endorsement of the House's action. Once again Congress is meddling where it doesn't belong.It is nothing more than a back-door effort to ef-up one POTUS, "W". Among other things, we are using Turkish airspace in the War in Iraq. The timing of the condemnation of Turkey for what they did 100 years ago is intentional, IMO. It's another effort to bring about defeat of American forces, and, of course, "W".

[KaiserSooner]

Would Turkey cut off its nose to spite its face?

There is a threat gathering in Iran which is a big concern to the Turks. Will Turkey not allow us to use Turkish airspace to deal with the Iranian threat? Maybe. Will Congress's short sighted act indirectly lead to Iran going nuclear? Possibly.

That's pretty ridiculous.

It makes just about as much sense as blaming WW1 on Japan because they strongly objected to Russian territorial ambitions in Manchuria and Korea, thus leading the Tsar to refocus his paternalistic foreign policy on Serbia and the Balkan states, emboldening a provoked Serbian nationalist to assassinate Franz Ferdinand.

The real concern from Turkey is whether or not they'll leave Iraqi Kurdistan alone (and vice versa really). Methinks the stable society that currently exists there won't be allowed to stick around by Turkey, regardless of what Congress or the US says or does.

[BU BEAR]

That's pretty ridiculous.

It makes just about as much sense as blaming WW1 on Japan because they strongly objected to Russian territorial ambitions in Manchuria and Korea, thus leading the Tsar to refocus his paternalistic foreign policy on Serbia and the Balkan states, emboldening a provoked Serbian nationalist to assassinate Franz Ferdinand.

The real concern from Turkey is whether or not they'll leave Iraqi Kurdistan alone (and vice versa really). Methinks the stable society that currently exists there won't be allowed to stick around by Turkey, regardless of what Congress or the US says or does.

I think you did not understand my post.

Will Turkey, because of this silly non-binding resoultion about something a century old, shut down airspace or not cooperate with us on Iran?

If Turkey does react by not cooperating with us in Iran, that (1) hurts Turkey because a nuclear Iran is not in its interests (2) hurts our ability to set back or destroy Iran's nuclear program.

Thus, if we are limited in our options and cannot deal effectively with Iran because of lack of Turkish cooperation, it is perfectly reasonable to hold that a substantial cause of our ineffectiveness is this silly, ill timed resolution from Congress.

Of course, we dont need Turkish airspace or cooperation to do serious damage to or nuke Iran. But I do not think either of those are the more desirable options from a political perspective.

[KaiserSooner]

No, I completely understood the absurdity of your post, and responded accordingly.

BTW, the Iran Nuke problem is yet another issue totally overblown by right-wingers. It's one of those non-crisis crises.

[limey_sooner]

It is nothing more than a back-door effort to ef-up one POTUS, "W". Among other things, we are using Turkish airspace in the War in Iraq. The timing of the condemnation of Turkey for what they did 100 years ago is intentional, IMO. It's another effort to bring about defeat of American forces, and, of course, "W".

Oh please, such an attempted resolution has popped up intermitently for the past 20 years.

And of course there is always this.

http://www.anca.org/press_releases/press_releases.php?prid=60

"If elected President, I would ensure that our nation properly recognizes the tragic suffering of the Armenian people." George Bush 2001

[Howzit]

BTW, the Iran Nuke problem is yet another issue totally overblown by right-wingers. It's one of those non-crisis crises.

Seriously? I'm hardly a right-winger but the idea of Iran with nukes scares the bejeebers out of me. Why do you think it is not an issue?