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View Full Version : Good Morning: Man's Inhumanity to Man Knows No Bounds



Okla-homey
10/10/2007, 06:52 AM
October 10, 1944: Eight hundred children are gassed to death at Auschwitz

63 years ago, on this day in 1944, 800 "Gypsy" children, including more than a hundred boys between 9 and 14 years old, were systematically murdered by the Nazi's at Auschwitz in occupied Poland.

http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/29899/2004500674292507659_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004500674292507659)
Rail entrance to the Auschwitz administrative center. After processing, people were either sent to Birkenau to die, or Monowitz to work.

The complex consisted of three main camps: Auschwitz I, the administrative center; Auschwitz II (Birkenau), an extermination camp or Vernichtungslager; and Auschwitz III (Monowitz), a work camp, or Arbeitslager.

http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/28807/2004519284427057439_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004519284427057439)
"A group of Gypsy prisoners, awaiting instructions from their German captors, sit in an open area near the fence in the Belzec concentration camp." Belzec, 1940

Called "gypsies" in English, because of a mistaken belief they descended from Egyptians, they are more appropriately (and less pejoratively) called "Romani" people.

http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/28433/2000609707406833864_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000609707406833864)
Popular romantic image of the Romani and their itinerant lifestyle. There was an ugly side to it because whenever anything turned up missing, these folks were often blamed, whether there was any evidence to support the allegation or not. Frankly, it was probably more convenient to blame a rootless person than the guy next door.

In 1935, the Nuremberg laws stripped the Romani people living in Nazi Germany of their citizenship, after which they were subjected to violence and imprisonment in extermination camps. The policy was extended in areas occupied by the Nazis during the war, and it was also applied by their allies, notably the Independent State of Croatia, Romania and Hungary.

Because no accurate pre-war census figures exist for the Roma, it is impossible to accurately assess the actual number of victims. Ian Hancock, director of the Program of Romani Studies at The University of Texas at Austin, proposes a figure of up to a million and a half, while an estimate of between 220,000 and 500,000 was made by the late Sybil Milton, formerly senior historian of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.. In Central Europe, the extermination in the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia was so thorough that the Bohemian Romani language became totally extinct.

http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/28693/2004576931981895817_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004576931981895817)

The Romani were singled out for brutal treatment by Hitler's regime early on ostensibly because they were deemed "carriers of disease" and "unreliable elements who cannot be put to useful work." They were marked for extermination along with the Jews of Europe from the earliest years of the war.

http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/28595/2004597492332694006_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004597492332694006)
Romani people of Bulgaria

In 1950, as European Romani attempted to gain compensation for their suffering, as were other victims of the Holocaust, the German government denied them anything, saying, "Gypsies have been persecuted under the Nazis not for any racial reason but because of an asocial and criminal record." They were stigmatized even in light of the atrocities committed against them.

What, or more precisely, who are Gypsies/Romani?

Well, according to Wikipedia:


Worldwide there is an estimated population of at least 15 million Romani. The official number of Romani people is disputed in many countries. Because many Roma often refuse to register their ethnic identity in official censuses for fear of discrimination[5], unofficial estimates are undertaken in efforts to reveal their true numbers.

The largest population of Roma is found on the Balkan peninsula; significant numbers also live in the Americas, the former Soviet Union, Western Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa.

http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/30622/2003443636306478327_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003443636306478327)

The Roma recognize divisions among themselves based in part on territorial, cultural and dialectal differences. Some authorities recognize five main groups:

Kalderash are the most numerous, traditionally coppersmiths, from the Balkans, many of whom migrated to central Europe and North America;
Gitanos (also called Calé) mostly in the Iberian Peninsula, North Africa, and southern France; associated with entertainment;

http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/31325/2004538245943958586_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004538245943958586)
A young Romani woman from the Czech Republic (2005)

Sinti mostly in Alsace and other regions of France and Germany (Other experts, and Sinti themselves, insist that Sinti are not a subgroup of Roma but rather a separate ethnic group which also had Indian origins and a history of nomadism);

Romnichal (Rom'nies) mainly in Britain and North America; and

Erlides (also known as Yerlii or Arli) settled in southeastern Europe and Turkey.

Some groups, like the Finnish Roma population (Kaalee) and the Norwegian and Swedish Travellers, are hard to categorize. Each of these main divisions may be further divided into two or more subgroups distinguished by occupational specialization or territorial origin, or both.

Note: The Irish Travelers, are a community of alleged sophisticated and secretive con and scam artists. You may have seen them exposed on any number of telecasts and are not ethnically related to the Romani people. They appear to be garden variety crooks centered in the piedmont of the Carolinas and they probably sprang from common Irish ancestors.

Sometimes known as "Tinkers" and derogatively "Knackers" (Ireland) or "Pikeys" (Britain) they now live Ireland, Great Britain and the United States. It is estimated 25,000 Travellers live in Ireland, 15,000 in Great Britain and 7,000 in the United States.

They refer to themselves as "The Pavees."

If you've ever heard the phrase, "I don't give a Tinkers damn" or hear a dishonest person called a "Piker," know that these things spring from derision for Irish Travelers.

TUSooner
10/10/2007, 09:07 AM
That last bit was very interesting.

Xstnlsooner
10/10/2007, 09:10 AM
Just shows to go ya that people are basically "good," right!

heh

yermom
10/10/2007, 09:42 AM
Snatch makes a lot more sense now

also, Gypsy tears protect you from the AIDS

http://www.bloglifetime.com/images/blogs/5-2007/purchase-the-borat-book.jpg

mikeelikee
10/10/2007, 09:42 AM
But according to Ahmadinejad, this didn't really happen. This nut-job is the modern-day Hitler. Prepare to act accordingly toward him and his minions.

soonerscuba
10/10/2007, 12:06 PM
This nut-job is the modern-day Hitler.

No he's not, and it's dangerous to pretend so. Sorry, but we cry wolf and compare a man who has not invaded a another country or killed millions of people to one who has, and we do ourselves no favors when we need help with the next actual Hitler.

Also, I can hit a gypsy with a rock from 3 meters, 5 if he is chained.

Fugue
10/10/2007, 12:45 PM
No he's not, and it's dangerous to pretend so. Sorry, but we cry wolf and compare a man who has not invaded a another country or killed millions of people to one who has, and we do ourselves no favors when we need help with the next actual Hitler.

Also, I can hit a gypsy with a rock from 3 meters, 5 if he is chained.

What's dangerous is not treating him like a psychotic terrorist.
You probably think we should negotiate with him don't you?

soonerscuba
10/10/2007, 02:07 PM
What's dangerous is not treating him like a psychotic terrorist.
You probably think we should negotiate with him don't you?

No, we should keep an eye on him, sanction him and use force if necessary.

I'm not saying that he's a good guy, I'm just saying it's beyond disingenuous to compare him to a man that conquered a continent, killed 8 million people, and tried to breed a master race.

Okla-homey
10/10/2007, 02:41 PM
No, we should keep an eye on him, sanction him and use force if necessary.

I'm not saying that he's a good guy, I'm just saying it's beyond disingenuous to compare him to a man that conquered a continent, killed 8 million people, and tried to breed a master race.

Here's the problem with that reasoning. Hitler needed a dozen years, billions of marks and a willing populace to build the Wehrmacht he hurled against the world killing millions.

Now, this guy doesn't have the d00ds, the money or the time to do that.

What he does have is the money, the will and time to to acquire a nuke. Add to that his demonstrated hatred for the West and recent examples of what militant fundamentalist Islamists have the will to do, and you have a recipe for a disaster of unprecedented magnitude.

If he gets a nuke, then hurls it against a target, he achieves the same end as Hitler did, albiet much more economically. Either way, smoking holes and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dead.

See, the world changed forever in 1945. IMHO, it's not very wise to think in pre-1945 terms about contemporary threats.

soonerscuba
10/10/2007, 03:47 PM
Here's the problem with that reasoning. Hitler needed a dozen years, billions of marks and a willing populace to build the Wehrmacht he hurled against the world killing millions.

Now, this guy doesn't have the d00ds, the money or the time to do that.

What he does have is the money, the will and time to to acquire a nuke. Add to that his demonstrated hatred for the West and recent examples of what militant fundamentalist Islamists have the will to do, and you have a recipe for a disaster of unprecedented magnitude.

If he gets a nuke, then hurls it against a target, he achieves the same end as Hitler did, albiet much more economically. Either way, smoking holes and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dead.

See, the world changed forever in 1945. IMHO, it's not very wise to think in pre-1945 terms about contemporary threats.

Name one way in which he is like Hitler by action. I can talk about having a go at Angelina Jolie until I am blue in the face but that doesn't make me like Brad Pitt.

I don't think that I am in a pre-1945 phase of mind at all, I think that he eventually gets bombed, the problem is nipped in the bud and everybody goes on their merry way. I think that some are in a pre-2003 frame of mine for getting caught with your pants down on accusing people in the region of having piles upon piles of WMDs. I think that he can be watched and if action needs to be taken, it will be. I just think that comparing an elected nutjob of a weak nation in a region of the world that is poor at best to a ruthless leader of a massive military machine is faulty.