1812 Overture

[oklaclarinet]

I am sick and tired of people calling the "1812 Overture" a piece of Americana! Guess what. It was written by a Russian (Tchaikovsky) using Russian melodies (including "God Save the Tsar") to celebrate the Russians' victory over France in 1812 (hence the use of the French national anthem in there as well). It has nothing to do with the US-British War of 1812. Orchestras only started using it for Fourth of July celebrations because it is loud, has cannons, and goes nicely with fireworks. But it is not American. It is a celebration of everything Russia.

This is not to say that it isn't a great piece of music, because it is. Tchaikovsky really new how to engage an audience with exciting music. The piece is one of my favorites.

And of course I know that over time music gets co-opted for meanings other than the composer's original intention. I'm fine with that. If people want to celebrate our country using loud Russian music, that is fine by me. I guess my peeve is more with the people who go around saying that the piece was originally written as a celebration of the US War of 1812 and are completely ignorant of the true meaning of the title.

[GottaHavePride]

Heh.

I loved its use in "V for Vendetta".

[Frozen Sooner]

I am sick and tired of people calling the "1812 Overture" a piece of Americana! Guess what. It was written by a Russian (Tchaikovsky) using Russian melodies (including "God Save the Tsar") to celebrate the Russians' victory over France in 1812 (hence the use of the French national anthem in there as well). It has nothing to do with the US-British War of 1812. Orchestras only started using it for Fourth of July celebrations because it is loud, has cannons, and goes nicely with fireworks. But it is not American. It is a celebration of everything Russia.

This is not to say that it isn't a great piece of music, because it is. Tchaikovsky really new how to engage an audience with exciting music. The piece is one of my favorites.

And of course I know that over time music gets co-opted for meanings other than the composer's original intention. I'm fine with that. If people want to celebrate our country using loud Russian music, that is fine by me. I guess my peeve is more with the people who go around saying that the piece was originally written as a celebration of the US War of 1812 and are completely ignorant of the true meaning of the title.

Wow. People actually think it's a celebration of the War of 1812?

Idjits.

[StuIsTheMan]

My favorite song to play in my HS W.E. We won State playing that song...the only time I ever saw the Nazi Director we had smile...we went on to win state 2 more times...still the jerk never smiled...we won best drum line 4 years in a row...never smiled...WHERE IS THAT DICKHOLE...I got some satisfaction comming to me...

[SicEmBaylor]

Heh.

I loved its use in "V for Vendetta".
:rolleyes:

I really tried to give that movie a chance, but it was very very hard to do when they said the "Conservative Party" had installed a tyrannical fascist dictatorship.

I really found it amusing when people told me not to look at it from a politcal point of view when the movie was inherently political. :rolleyes:

God, I wish I could get paid the big bucks to write that crap.

Edit: I also don't understand the whole connection between Guy Fawkes and the fight for liberty. Fawkes was a Catholic who hated English protestantism. Her wasn't fighting for liberty he was fighting for a return to Papal supremacy.

I just don't get the appeal of that ****. I simply do not get it.

[proud gonzo]

:rolleyes:

I really tried to give that movie a chance, but it was very very hard to do when they said the "Conservative Party" had installed a tyrannical fascist dictatorship.

I really found it amusing when people told me not to look at it from a politcal point of view when the movie was inherently political. :rolleyes:

God, I wish I could get paid the big bucks to write that crap.you seriously make my head hurt.

[SicEmBaylor]

you seriously make my head hurt.
Uh, sorry?

[silverwheels]

Wow. People actually think it's a celebration of the War of 1812?

Idjits.

Yeah, I don't know anyone that associates it with America. You'd have to be pretty dumb to do that.

[StuIsTheMan]

Yeah, I don't know anyone that associates it with America. You'd have to be pretty dumb to do that.

Yeah it would be really dumb if they played it at some event like...oh...the 4th of July grand finale at the nations capitol every year...now that would be dumb:rolleyes:

[bluedogok]

Digital Cannons.....THE way to blow up Norman Labs speakers :eek:

The Telarc recording (http://www.telarc.com/gscripts/title.asp?gsku=0041&mscssid=E38VFFJ2T91F9NDWDFWMPUF3Q5S1DQJF) is a good one. They also have versions in SACD and DVD-Audio formats.

[silverwheels]

Yeah it would be really dumb if they played it at some event like...oh...the 4th of July grand finale at the nations capitol every year...now that would be dumb:rolleyes:

You know what I meant. It was a reference to the original post. Jesus Christ I wish you had stayed banned.

[critical_phil]

you cannot ban Jesus Christ.


i'm just sayin'.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yeah it would be really dumb if they played it at some event like...oh...the 4th of July grand finale at the nations capitol every year...now that would be dumb:rolleyes:

I have no problem with playing it. If we only played American music at the expense of European then many an orchestra would be out of work. I love hearing Ode to Joy from Beethoven's 9th on the 4th of July. I'm not sure if that makes me German or not. I also love Wagner on such occasions. I bet Robert Duvall doesn't have a problem with Lord of the Valkyries. I really see nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

[SicEmBaylor]

you cannot ban Jesus Christ.


i'm just sayin'.

I bet he could around here....

[Sooner_Havok]

:rolleyes:

I really tried to give that movie a chance, but it was very very hard to do when they said the "Conservative Party" had installed a tyrannical fascist dictatorship.

I really found it amusing when people told me not to look at it from a politcal point of view when the movie was inherently political. :rolleyes:

God, I wish I could get paid the big bucks to write that crap.

Edit: I also don't understand the whole connection between Guy Fawkes and the fight for liberty. Fawkes was a Catholic who hated English protestantism. Her wasn't fighting for liberty he was fighting for a return to Papal supremacy.

I just don't get the appeal of that ****. I simply do not get it.


Oh yeah?! Well, umm, Baylor is pathetic, so yeah, take that! :P

Nah, I liked the movie. You just have to look at it as an adaption of a comic book into a movie. Is 300 really how Thermopylae went down? Nah, but it made for a hell of a movie. Was Guy Fawkes' first goal to bring back Catholicism back into England, yeah, but saying he really wanted to bring down a corrupt government sounds cooler, and makes for more entertaining explosions! :D

[SicEmBaylor]

Oh yeah?! Well, umm, Baylor is pathetic, so yeah, take that! :P

Nah, I liked the movie. You just have to look at it as an adaption of a comic book into a movie. Is 300 really how Thermopylae went down? Nah, but it made for a hell of a movie. Was Guy Fawkes' first goal to bring back Catholicism back into England, yeah, but saying he really wanted to bring down a corrupt government sounds cooler, and makes for more entertaining explosions! :D

Well, the artistic license with history doesn't bother me so much. It's the portrayal of the Tory Party as a bunch of jack booted Nazis that kind of got my goat.

[Sooner_Havok]

I can get behind that :)

[Jimminy Crimson]

...that kind of got my goat.

Did the goat come with the Miata? ;)

[william_brasky]

If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone refer to the 1812 Overture as a piece of Americana, I'd have five cents.

[oklaclarinet]

If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone refer to the 1812 Overture as a piece of Americana, I'd have five cents.

Maybe I'm just around a lot more uneducated people. Then again, I have also heard people who should know better make the same claims as well.

[achiro]

You guys do realize how "geeky" this conversation really is don't you? mmK, just checking.

[StuIsTheMan]

You know what I meant. It was a reference to the original post. Jesus Christ I wish you had stayed banned.

Well wish in one hand... A$$Clown:pop:



Yeah, I don't know anyone that associates it with America. You'd have to be pretty dumb to do that.

Funny I see no reference here...please enlighten me...if not...

****OFF DIP****

[IB4OU2]

I have no problem with playing it. If we only played American music at the expense of European then many an orchestra would be out of work. I love hearing Ode to Joy from Beethoven's 9th on the 4th of July. I'm not sure if that makes me German or not. I also love Wagner on such occasions. I bet Robert Duvall doesn't have a problem with Lord of the Valkyries. I really see nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

Lord of the Valkyries? :confused:

is that like Lord of the Flies?

I think you meant "Ride of the Valkyries".....

[StuIsTheMan]

http://www.branche-rouge.org/Members/Jani/articles/scandinavie/contes-et-legendes/les-valkyries/valkyries-l.jpg

[silverwheels]

Well wish in one hand... A$$Clown:pop:




Funny I see no reference here...please enlighten me...if not...

****OFF DIP****

You are not the brightest poster on the board.

[silverwheels]

You are not the brightest poster on the board.

Yeah, I know, I'm stating the obvious...

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

It's a perfect piece of music. Technically, emotionally...it's perfect.

[SicEmBaylor]

Lord of the Valkyries? :confused:

is that like Lord of the Flies?

I think you meant "Ride of the Valkyries".....

Hah, yes.
One of these days I'm going to start proofreading and editing my posts.

[StuIsTheMan]

Yeah, I know, I'm stating the obvious...


Funny...you must be one of...them...

An idiot, but has (site) powerful friends...I'll let you be for now...:pop:

[silverwheels]

Funny...you must be one of...them...

An idiot, but has (site) powerful friends...I'll let you be for now...:pop:

Does that mean you're going to start a neg war? OH NOES!!!!


You are so lame.

[KABOOKIE]

What I do remember from Music Appreciation, one of those "liberal arts" elective classes was mistaking Tchaikovsky for Copeland will get you an F on your exam.

[OUDoc]

And 2112 Overture was written by Canadians. DAMN!

:D

[StuIsTheMan]

Does that mean you're going to start a neg war? OH NOES!!!!


You are so lame.


No I don't neg the retarded...just seems, mean

[silverwheels]

No I don't neg the retarded...just seems, mean

So, you threaten to gather up your message board buddies and give me negative reputation (as if that even means anything), then say that?


Like I said, lame.

[GottaHavePride]

:rolleyes:

I really tried to give that movie a chance, but it was very very hard to do when they said the "Conservative Party" had installed a tyrannical fascist dictatorship.

I really found it amusing when people told me not to look at it from a politcal point of view when the movie was inherently political. :rolleyes:

God, I wish I could get paid the big bucks to write that crap.

Edit: I also don't understand the whole connection between Guy Fawkes and the fight for liberty. Fawkes was a Catholic who hated English protestantism. Her wasn't fighting for liberty he was fighting for a return to Papal supremacy.

I just don't get the appeal of that ****. I simply do not get it.

I see you have missed the "suspension of disbelief" concept.

Just because a story is set in actual, existing locations does not mean that the events taking place necessarily have to reflect actual, existing events, people, places, etc.

Which means that when watching that movie, I don't care what name they used for their fictitious political party set in the future.

Alan Moore disassociated himself with the movie for how the Wachowski's treated it, which means at that point I think to myself "hmmm, any political message hidden in this movie is unconnected to the original story and therefore is a load of crap. In such a case I will watch the movie because the photography, acting, and dialog are superb, and a lot of **** gets blown up and stabbed."

[SicEmBaylor]

I see you have missed the "suspension of disbelief" concept.

Just because a story is set in actual, existing locations does not mean that the events taking place necessarily have to reflect actual, existing events, people, places, etc.

Which means that when watching that movie, I don't care what name they used for their fictitious political party set in the future.

Alan Moore disassociated himself with the movie for how the Wachowski's treated it, which means at that point I think to myself "hmmm, any political message hidden in this movie is unconnected to the original story and therefore is a load of crap. In such a case I will watch the movie because the photography, acting, and dialog are superb, and a lot of **** gets blown up and stabbed."

They didn't use a fictitious party name. They used the official party name and even used the word "Tories."

I don't care that you enjoyed the movie. Aside from the message, I can see how one might be entertained by it. But you can't honestly tell me the movie didn't have a blatant political message and that I shouldn't care what that message is.

It's like telling me you enjoy Mein Kampf becasue it's a good read but that I shouldn't worry about the political message behind it.

The movie is inherently political.

[StuIsTheMan]

So, you threaten to gather up your message board buddies and give me negative reputation (as if that even means anything), then say that?


Like I said, lame.


Dude...
1. What person on here thinks of me as their..."Buddie"
2. No one has given you neg about this right? And if so I have absolutly NO PULL HERE so it was because of your highly intlectual post's they are disagreeing with...
3. I never threatend you with this...


again man if the shoe fits...(The Retarted shoe that is):pop:

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

Stop it.

Now.

[GottaHavePride]

They didn't use a fictitious party name. They used the official party name and even used the word "Tories."

I don't care that you enjoyed the movie. Aside from the message, I can see how one might be entertained by it. But you can't honestly tell me the movie didn't have a blatant political message and that I shouldn't care what that message is.

It's like telling me you enjoy Mein Kampf becasue it's a good read but that I shouldn't worry about the political message behind it.

The movie is inherently political.

My only further thought on the subject is this: the movie is inherently political to you because you see everything as inherently political. Me? I basically don't give a crap about anything to do with politics, because I don't think there are any differences between any major parties - it's all just a way of keeping score for the people playing the game to me - they have to have an opponent so they can "win".

[SicEmBaylor]

Stop it.

Now.
Who and which part? ;)

[Mongo]

1. What person on here thinks of me as their..."Buddie"

c_p said you and him were butt buddies. does that count?:D

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

Who and which part? ;)

Not the intelligent debate.

The dumb ****.

[silverwheels]

My only further thought on the subject is this: the movie is inherently political to you because you see everything as inherently political. Me? I basically don't give a crap about anything to do with politics, because I don't think there are any differences between any major parties - it's all just a way of keeping score for the people playing the game to me - they have to have an opponent so they can "win".

I agree. I love V for Vendetta and the way the Ouverture was used. I'm not about to get riled up over political overtones in a piece of fiction.

[OCUDad]

Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
--Proverbs 17:28

Better to remain silent and appear a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
--Abraham Lincoln (or Mark Twain – nobody knows for sure) :D

[StuIsTheMan]

I agree. I love V for Vendetta and the way the Ouverture was used. I'm not about to get riled up over political overtones in a piece of fiction. But dissagree with me and I get my panties in wad, and make false accusations


Fixed...YWIA:pop:

[Frozen Sooner]

They didn't use a fictitious party name. They used the official party name and even used the word "Tories."

I don't care that you enjoyed the movie. Aside from the message, I can see how one might be entertained by it. But you can't honestly tell me the movie didn't have a blatant political message and that I shouldn't care what that message is.

It's like telling me you enjoy Mein Kampf becasue it's a good read but that I shouldn't worry about the political message behind it.

The movie is inherently political.

Actually, the name of the political party that took over the British government was Norsefire, not the Tories.

[SicEmBaylor]

Actually, the name of the political party that took over the British government was Norsefire, not the Tories.

They mentioned it briefly in the movie. When explaining how things got into their current state they mentioned the Tories flocking to this guy who promised law and order.

I don't know if the comic book mentioned the Tories or not (I'm guessing not) since I've never read a comic book.

[StuIsTheMan]

I've never read a comic book.

:eek:
you led a sad childhood didn't ya SicEm;)

[silverwheels]

Fixed...YWIA:pop:

That post was a joke. Glad to see you got it, though.


Also glad to see one of your hilarious "fixed" posts show up with the popcorn and soda guy, too. Man, those are awesome.

[SicEmBaylor]

:eek:
you led a sad childhood didn't ya SicEm;)

You'd never know it now, but I was a pretty rough and tumble kid.
I spent a lot of time outside riding my dirt bike through the woods and that kind of thing. I made up this game that my friends and I would play whereby we try to get both feet planted on my porch while one person "defends" with a large bamboo like stick that grew in the back of my house. If you could get both feet planted on the porch before you had been beaten half to death with this stick then you "win."

I played GI Joe a lot and would put large maps on my wall and plot my future invasion and conquest of Poland and the rest of Europe. I picked landing beaches, staging areas, invasion routes, etc.

That's the bulk of my childhood.

[Frozen Sooner]

They mentioned it briefly in the movie. When explaining how things got into their current state they mentioned the Tories flocking to this guy who promised law and order.

I don't know if the comic book mentioned the Tories or not (I'm guessing not) since I've never read a comic book.

I don't recall that at all. I DO recall that the name of the political party was explicitly stated as Norsefire.

[StuIsTheMan]

QUIT DELETING MY POSTS! DAMN There is nothing wrong with them! WTF!

[StuIsTheMan]

did this ever get resolved?

[C&CDean]

Yeah, you got banned again.

[StoopTroup]

lol

V for Vendetta?

[King Barry's Back]

My only further thought on the subject is this: the movie is inherently political to you because you see everything as inherently political. Me? I basically don't give a crap about anything to do with politics, because I don't think there are any differences between any major parties - it's all just a way of keeping score for the people playing the game to me - they have to have an opponent so they can "win".

Wow. Just wow.

[King Barry's Back]

I made up this game that my friends and I would play whereby we try to get both feet planted on my porch while one person "defends" with a large bamboo like stick that grew in the back of my house. If you could get both feet planted on the porch before you had been beaten half to death with this stick then you "win."

I played GI Joe a lot and would put large maps on my wall and plot my future invasion and conquest of Poland and the rest of Europe. I picked landing beaches, staging areas, invasion routes, etc.

That's the bulk of my childhood.

Good Lord, Nazi-much? :) (If you call someone a Nazi without a smiley, you'd better mean it, and I don't. But, Dude, you planned to invade Poland?)

[SicEmBaylor]

Good Lord, Nazi-much? :) (If you call someone a Nazi without a smiley, you'd better mean it, and I don't. But, Dude, you planned to invade Poland?)

Yeah, I remember one time when I was like 8 my dad got really pissed at me because he had these large beautiful world maps framed in our library. I took them down and used crayons to map out "invasion routes" of western Europe.

The older I got the more technical the plans became. I tried to properly plan out lines of communication and work out the logistics of moving an American army across Europe, etc. Of course, I was way the hell off (I'm sure) what would be needed but you can see where I was going in my thought process.

Don't worry, my imperialist days are over. I went from there to isolationist, but it was a very long journey.

I've always been fascinated with WWII. I read Churchill's entire wartime autobiography by 8th grade. I'd sit in my room listening to Wagner and close my eyes trying to imagine the thrill of sitting on top of a tank and being given the orders to "jump off" and cross the border in the early morning hours and the thrill of riding atop my tank and cutting through the open plains of Poland. It's not that I was pro-Germany -- I was just pro-invading ****.

[C&CDean]

A lot of **** is becoming a lot more clear now...

[sooner_born_1960]

What a beautiful piece of Americana.

[TopDawg]

What a beautiful piece of Americana.

You mean this thread? I agree.

[StuIsTheMan]

Yeah, you got banned again.


that wasn't very nice dean...and I believe you still owe me a tailgate...

[GKeeper316]

I have no problem with playing it. If we only played American music at the expense of European then many an orchestra would be out of work. I love hearing Ode to Joy from Beethoven's 9th on the 4th of July. I'm not sure if that makes me German or not. I also love Wagner on such occasions. I bet Robert Duvall doesn't have a problem with Lord of the Valkyries. I really see nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

Ride of the Valkyries