What Is OU's Defensive Identity?

[FaninAma]

After watching the last 2 games I have no inkling what the Sooners' are trying to establish on the defensive side of the ball.

Against CU OU played a soft zone with our all-conference corners backed off the line of scrimmage. Then against UT the corners are up on the line ofscrimmage playing a lot of man. Lendy holmes was often 20 - 25 yards playing centerfield and often couldn't react fast enough to impact the plays that were ran underneath him.

In neither game was much pressure put on the opposing QB and most of the turnovers were from tipped passes by wide open receivers.

I think the key is getting more pressure on the opposing QB and if the pressure is not being generated by the DL then venables needs to come up with some better schemes.

I will say that the defense seems to be better tackling this year and the front 4 is getting more pressure on the QB although, IMO, not enough to take some of the heat off of the secondary. And it was impressive the way OU's corners shut down UT's Wr's.

Any thoughts on areas of improvement for the defense? I think the cornerback play from Saturday is very encouraging and could give Brent more options with attacking the opposing offense.

[Widescreen]

It is weird. I think we're #5 or #6 in the nation in sacks this year yet QB's frequently have a ton of time to throw. We seem to be very hot and cold. :confused:

[Crucifax Autumn]

Well, if I was a KSU fan I'd say the way to fix it is more late hits on the QB!

[GottaHavePride]

I think we should blitz 11 guys every down.

[tommieharris91]

Our linebackers can tackle, but can't cover. How can you allow a TE to have 149 yards in a single half, on 4 catches no less? Our adjustments must have been good. They never threy to Finley in the 2nd half.

[FaninAma]

Well, if I was a KSU fan I'd say the way to fix it is more late hits on the QB!

Why the league has allowed KSU to get away with that is beyond me.

I do think other teams are saavy to our blitzes off the outside of the DE's.

And I don't know if our LB's aren't getting deep enough drops or if the safeties are slow in reacting to the intermediate crossing and curl patterns but now that the corners seem to have tightened up their coverage the middle of the field seems to have a lot of soft areas.

[Crucifax Autumn]

My opinion is that if the backers aren't gonna cover they oughtta be blitzing on every passing down.

[FaninAma]

I think we should blitz 11 guys every down.

I think we should rush 2 and drop 9 in coverage. As long as we don't get beat deep we'll be fine.

[cheezyq]

I'm not sure we have an identity. I think Venables wants to be aggressive and he'll toss a few DB blitzes in to turn up the heat. The problem is that we really shouldn't NEED too many blitzes, especially not from the defensive backfield. I think a mixture of twists and stunts would do the trick with an occasional LB overload on either side, but that's just my humble opinion without seeing any tape. I think we SHOULD be getting pressure with Granger and English, but I guess that's not happening.

I was impressed that Venables finally adjusted in the 2nd half and dropped our LBs a little deeper into coverage. It was nice to see the LBs commit to a potential receiver and cover him, rather than attack the LoS for the run and scramble back after a receiver blows by wide open.

[Frozen Sooner]

Our linebackers can tackle, but can't cover. How can you allow a TE to have 149 yards in a single half, on 4 catches no less? Our adjustments must have been good. They never threy to Finley in the 2nd half.

Finley caught a pass on the first play of the third quarter, then never caught another.

They had the LBs drop off the line a bit and looked like they had Lendy shorten his zone up a bit.

[Frozen Sooner]

Our linebackers can tackle, but can't cover. How can you allow a TE to have 149 yards in a single half, on 4 catches no less? Our adjustments must have been good. They never threy to Finley in the 2nd half.

Finley caught a pass on the first play of the third quarter, then never caught another.

They had the LBs drop off the line a bit and looked like they had Lendy shorten his zone up a bit.

[colleyvillesooner]

I saw an article in the Dallas Morning news saying Greg Davis plan was to get Jermichael Finley in 1 on 1 coverage against Reynolds. That seemed to work well for the 1st half.

Heard someone saying on the post game show, that in the second half, the just put a linebacker over him at the line and nailed him as soon as the ball was snapped, throwing the timing off.

I thought our second half adjustments on D worked pretty well.

[StoopTroup]

The linebackers seem to be getting lots of help from Wolfe and Harris IMO.

They got burned on coverage badly.

Rufus was the last of our knock the teeth out of ya kind of guy.

Lofton has been stellar at times but Reynolds seems to struggle with coverage. I think we'll get better though.

[goingoneight]

I think for once, Brent Venables has a very solid tackling defense. However, we're getting exposed down the middle. I don't know necessarily why yet, but I'm banking on Ryan Reynolds' knees being a big factor in keeping up with fast tight ends. Dude is a monstrous tackler, but anyone who's ever had reconstructive surgery knows it's tough to get back to "normal." Let alone two reconstructive surgeries. Remember how slow Jason White was after his surgeries? Remember how C.J. Ay You got stood up by OL of lesser size and talent?

Hopefully he continues to heal and picks up a little more speed. Also keep in mind that everyone who has hit those middle shots have pretty good quarterbacks or run a pass-first offense. Colt McCoy, despite being a Hook 'em, is pretty damn good when you don't get seriously in his face every down. Cody Hawkins has a nice touch on the ball just like Sam does, too.

[Crucifax Autumn]

No big football lingo here, but I think we oughtta slam anyone coming across the line of scrimmage the second their foot crosses. If they don't end up on their *** they'll have their timing way off.

[Sooner_Havok]

Cover 2 zone....That is OUr problem. We need some more press, and man coverage in the first half. They pretty much stop that cover 2 crap i the second half because they see the offenses reading our zone, and picking it apart. But, I guess with our backers playing such weak coverage, we need to run that cover 2 just to have a protection plan...

[Jewstin]

I think the problem really lies with Reynolds. He has been consistently out of position since the Tulsa game. I love the guy, great heart recovering from two knee injuries, and he's definitely a veteran leader ...

But, man, he gets beat all the time. Some of those tosses to Finley would've been picks if he was in position (or not thrown at all, obviously).

[adoniijahsooner]

I think the identity of the defense is to stop the run. We can give up passing yards and still win the game, but when a team is balanced like Colorado then it is difficult to win. Although against Mizzou, i am betting that BV plays 2 linebackers and takes Reynolds out and replace him with a DB.

[IronSooner]

Yeah I think we're generally a no-run kinda D. You won't run on us unless you pull out some misdirection, and we can usually adjust to that too.

I still think our pass defense is horrible. It seems to me like our philosophy there is to let the guy catch it, try to tackle him immediately, and prevent YAC. That works great on third and super long, but not so great otherwise. At the game it seemed like Colt was throwing around 85%. I'd love to see us actually prevent catches more often, rather than just hoping for an errant pass or a drop. That's what I have a major beef with.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I think our philosophy is to win the damned game.

[FaninAma]

It doesn't seem like OU has done a good job of disguising coverages over the last 2 or 3 seasons. I do agree Stoops has always had the priority of stopping the run first.

It does seem that OU has decided not giving up the big pass play is more important than forcing turnovers and that only a highly disciplined team is going to be able to sustain enough long drives via the passing game to move the ball consistently enough to outscore the Sooners.

That does place a little more pressure on the offense and when the offense gets shut down, like they did at Colorado, our defense can't make up the difference by producing turnovers like it used to before Venables took over as defensive coordinator:
+45 in turnover margin in 2000, 2001, 2003.
Only +2 in turnover margin for 2004,2005 and 2006.

What happened between 2003 and 2004? Mike Stoops left for Arizona and BV was promoted to DC.

I'm not saying OU can't win a national title with BV as defensive coordinator it's just going to take a good, balanced ball control offense to complement his defensive schemes. Meaning, don't expect to win too many big games 13-2 or 7-3 or 14-3 like we did under Mike Stoops. Under Venables if the Sooner offense has a bad day, more than likely OU loses.

[illinisooner]

We are a very aggressive team geared to stop the run and not give up big pass plays. Our aggressiveness leads to lots of TFL or short gains, but it also leads to nice gains if there's ever any misdirection by the offense. The pass defense will continue to bother me, because we play alot of zone even though we have players good enough to play man/press coverage. Like someone else said, our philosophy seems to be prevent YAC...bend but don't break. Our linebackers are average at best on pass coverage, with Reynolds being the worst of the bunch. I have great respect for him, coming back from knee injuries, but his pass coverage is not good at all.

As with any defense, the line has to get pressure on the QB and get penetration on running plays to be successful. For some reason, we get a good # of sacks, but consistent pressure is something that we haven't been able to do as much as we should. As for the playcalling...we seem to give the 7 yard cushion on 3rd and 4 way too much, I do not know why. BV should trust these guys to play man and press, even if occasionally they might give up a big play. I'd like to see the safeties play a little closer to the line to help out the LB's too. Oh well, just my thoughts.

[IronSooner]

I'm surprised we don't play man...much at all. I always figured zone was fine if you didn't have the athletes to run with people, but by this point we should be plenty athletic at corner to keep up with anybody 1-on-1. I don't mean to throw out Cover 2 entirely, but it'd be nice to see a little more variety, maybe play Cover 3 or sprinkle some man in there. Seems like if you're an OC going in to play us, you can count on C2 and plan against it with a fair amount of success.

[SoonerKnight]

Our defense came up with some big plays yesterday. As for the Colorado game they stopped Colorado they were on the field to long. That is the fault of the offense not catching the balls that were thrown to them. We would have won the colorado game easily had the offense played better. As for the rest of the games our defense has played well. It seems that we become conservitive when we are in the lead and believe we can pound them with the running game. If we had not decided to throw that long ball in the fourth we would have all had a heart attack going into OT or been really unhappy with the loss to a Saxet team. I think our main flaw is throwing to the middle if you remember that TD drive in the Miami game that is what they did. Missouri will do the same against us. They will try to dink the short balls. The difference that they will be playing at home and we know how well our team has played at home. I think that OU wins this game 55-24. Defense comes up big!

[SoonerBOI]

It is weird. I think we're #5 or #6 in the nation in sacks this year yet QB's frequently have a ton of time to throw. We seem to be very hot and cold. :confused:

I agree...

[wishbonesooner]

There was a time not too many years ago that I was always confident that our D could stop any team late in a ballgame when we needed it. It seems as tho we seem to give up a late drive more often than we stop somebody the last 2 or 3 years. I'm not a coach, I don't have the answers to why this seems to be, but I rarely feel confident unless we have about a 40 point lead. Something is different about our defense from what we had 5 or 6 years ago, and I can't put my finger on what that is. Could it be that a Derrick Strait or a Rocky Calmus or a Ted Lehman or Roy Williams don't come along that often?

[MikeInNorman]

Coaches tend to coach what they know best. This is not always the case, but it is especially true of Venables. Thus, to answer the question, OU's defensive identity is extremely linebacker-centric.

This is one reason why, as some have stated above, our pressure seems to be uneven. In a linebacker oriented defense, the first duty of the defensive tackles is to funnel plays to the LBs. Thus, the tackles spend a lot of time occupying blockers rather than pressing the QB. Focus on the LBs is also one reason we play so much zone. This particular group of LBs has quite conclusively shown that man coverage is perhaps not their strength. Or zone, for that matter, but better that than man. Don't look for the 8 yard "cushion" our corners have given this year to change a lot either, as the more help the safeties have to give the LBs, the less man press you will see on the edges.

[r5TPsooner]

The coverage seems to be decent, but the tackling after the catch is rather pathetic at times. Reynolds looked very banged up to me during the game.

[KRYPTON]

I think our defensive identity is "Mike Gundy's Wife."

Soft and vulnerable to deep thrusts up the middle.

[OU4LIFE]

I tell ya, I LOVE Ryan Reynolds heart, but the kid has definitely lost a step...or two. I realize he's the best option we have right now, but I feel for the kid every time I see a RB make a cut on him and he loses ground. I really wish he'd not had those knee injuries.

Lofton is the man. Period.

Lendy Holmes has a tough time tackling seems to me. We sure seems to miss more than usual, or maybe it just seems that way because they make one of us miss and it's off to the races.

Mizzou will be very good, and very hard to beat this weekend. We will have to play pretty much error free. I think they are better then people give them credit for.

[JohnnyMack]

I still say that our coaching staff doesn't trust our secondary enough to turn them loose. Mix in that you have one LB who's a bit on the slow side and one who can get a little amped up and over-pursue and you got a situation where the coaches can't really implement all the blitz packages and coverage schemes they have in their bag of tricks because the players just aren't good enough to pull it off.

[Curly Bill]

The zone coverage we play so much of in the secondary is more befitting a team with less athletic talent then we have, so for the life of me I can't understand why we do it. With our talent we should be playing more press/man coverage, so as it is we are not getting the most out of our talent. Our blitz packages are also woefully lacking in creativity.

[FaninAma]

On the last long completion to Jermichael Finley, Holmes was 25 yeards or more of the LOS at the snap. You could see the play unfolding and Holmes hesitation. The ball was lofted into the air by McCoy to take advantage of Finley's height. Holmes could have timed his hit and I doubt Finley would have been able to get up but insead he reacted slowly, tried to break up the pass and missed everything allowing Finley to go for another huge gain.

It's obvious Holmes isn't the answer at safety. On most plays it appeared he was just another spectator of what was going on on the field.

As far as linebacker coverage, I think Austin Box may be in for some significant playing time next year if he steps up his run stopping skills.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The zone coverage we play so much of in the secondary is more befitting a team with less athletic talent then we have, so for the life of me I can't understand why we do it. With our talent we should be playing more press/man coverage, so as it is we are not getting the most out of our talent. Our blitz packages are also woefully lacking in creativity.

uh, usc uses the same scheme

[KRYPTON]

uh, usc uses the same scheme

Is this an indictment or endorsement of the scheme, given last weekend? :D

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I still say that our coaching staff doesn't trust our secondary enough to turn them loose. Mix in that you have one LB who's a bit on the slow side and one who can get a little amped up and over-pursue and you got a situation where the coaches can't really implement all the blitz packages and coverage schemes they have in their bag of tricks because the players just aren't good enough to pull it off.

i've wanted to post something like this since game 1. overall, this defense has a lot more talent than the 2001 defense, but this defense doesn't need talent at every position, it needs great players at a few positions. unfortunately those positions are where we field our weakest players.

the WLB is the lynchpin of this defense, and thus far in venables tenure, we've enjoyed at least all big 12 level play at that position. this year, our linebacker play is as bad as i can remember (prolly going back to the shipp days). it isn't any mark on the individual players as i think they are immensely talented, but they just aren't making plays and more importantly aren't feeding off of each other. to me, reynolds is faster than rufus was, but he is killing whatever speed advantage he has by guessing. when he guesses right, he blows up the play, when he guesses wrong, he might as well not be on the field. at this point, he's at upwards of 80% wrong. tulsa, colorado, and even texas have been preying on him. heck, colorado ran the script to a T -> misdirection runs to isolate reynolds and allow him to get lost in the wash, fake one way and set up a throw to the receiver between the 2 worst positional cover guys on the field (smith and reynolds), and then when that is working go over the top on the backside when walker/holmes either falls asleep or gets caught cheating to help. luckily for us, greg davis is a moron. yeah, he got the TE isolation for some big plays, but that isn't what is going to beat us when our offense is clicking. the key is to run the ball by mixing up the formations and blocking schemes to isolate on reynolds. you can do that because you can always pick up the 1st on 3rd down by sticking a WR/TE between reynolds and smith. wait, that is what jason white did to texas, or more specifically dj, in 2001.

anyway, reynolds might be pretty good by the end of the year or sometime in the future, but right now he is having the same impact this year that having bassey at SS had in 2002 - making an otherwise very talented defense ineffective because of lack of plays.

which brings me to the real problem i'm having watching these guys - they are a pale immitation of a stoops team. reggie smith as a punt returner continues to cost us field position and points. the WRs loaf on their routes when they aren't getting the ball (everyone on this board lauds iglesias but go back and watch that crucial 3rd down drop by finley against colorado and watch iglesias, then tell me who's fault that was).

anyway, enough ranting.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Is this an indictment or endorsement of the scheme, given last weekend? :D

TOs are always the biggest stat in an upset.

the scheme we, usc, and other top teams use is the easiest to adapt to a myriad of college offenses. it is consistently year in, year out in the top of all total defenses.

[Scott D]

I think our defensive identity is "Mike Gundy's Wife."

Soft and apt to ask "Is it in yet?" or "Are you done yet?".

fixed.

[Scott D]

Is this an indictment or endorsement of the scheme, given last weekend? :D

you give anyone 5 turnovers and you're playing with fire, whether you are North Texas or the New England Patriots.

[OklahomaRed]

Soft cover deffense giving teams the short pass. We need to get that fixed before we play Tech. That's all they do. Rushing 4 with an occassional blitz is not getting enough pressure on the QB. The last two games we have given far too much time to the QB to find the open man. Need some type of pressure from the outside.

[MikeInNorman]

the WLB is the lynchpin of this defense, and thus far in venables tenure, we've enjoyed at least all big 12 level play at that position. this year, our linebacker play is as bad as i can remember (prolly going back to the shipp days).

True dat. However, although Rufus was BIg 12 defensive POY last year, nobody on the staff thought he had a particularly good year last year, even close to 2005.

to me, reynolds is faster than rufus was, but he is killing whatever speed advantage he has by guessing. when he guesses right, he blows up the play, when he guesses wrong, he might as well not be on the field. at this point, he's at upwards of 80% wrong.

This is what people are missing due to the focus on the obvious coverage struggles. RR gets to the hole late a lot, and gets blocked as a result. And lots of bad angles.


which brings me to the real problem i'm having watching these guys - they are a pale immitation of a stoops team.

Agreed, but is it all on them? We have had an awful lot of inexplicable mistakes in game and clock management, which the players have nothing to do with. It's puzzling.


the WRs loaf on their routes when they aren't getting the ball (everyone on this board lauds iglesias but go back and watch that crucial 3rd down drop by finley against colorado and watch iglesias, then tell me who's fault that was).

I'm glad somebody else noticed this. Malcolm Kelly half-a$$ed his route more than once against Texas when the ball wasn't coming to him, disturbingly similar to TFRW. I will choose to believe that it was because of his hamstring cramp, since I love MK. But still.

[Curly Bill]

uh, usc uses the same scheme

I am aware that a number of teams use the same type scheme that we do in the secondary. In fact most teams are at least able to use it some of the time. Most HS teams in fact are able to emloy a two-deep zone when they feel the need. My problem is our seeming overdependence on this scheme and apparent unwillingness to mix it up with other "looks" thereby not allowing the opposing offense to become comfortable in attacking us, ie...Colorado.

Also, what about what I consider our lack of aggressiveness in the secondary? I'm not saying it's about the scheme neccessarily, so...is it the coaching, or is it the players?

[jduggle]

I think the secondary is plenty aggressive..but at this point they are so worried about giving up the big play (with good reason) that they are trying very hard not to over-pursue.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I am aware that a number of teams use the same type scheme that we do in the secondary. In fact most teams are at least able to use it some of the time. Most HS teams in fact are able to emloy a two-deep zone when they feel the need. My problem is our seeming overdependence on this scheme and apparent unwillingness to mix it up with other "looks" thereby not allowing the opposing offense to become comfortable in attacking us, ie...Colorado.

Also, what about what I consider our lack of aggressiveness in the secondary? I'm not saying it's about the scheme neccessarily, so...is it the coaching, or is it the players?

20 hours a week max. that is all the kids are allowed to spend on football. compare that with 60+ for most pro teams. the result is you can only do so many looks - so do you have a ton of looks where you have average results or a limited amount that you know like the back of your hand?

our problems are personnel issues on defense along with really poorly coached special teams. the ST problem cascades because you have to spend so many extra hours on it to get it right, which in turn affects the rest of your game because of the practice limits.

[Curly Bill]

I think the secondary is plenty aggressive..but at this point they are so worried about giving up the big play (with good reason) that they are trying very hard not to over-pursue.

Huh? So...are they aggressive or not?

[Curly Bill]

20 hours a week max. that is all the kids are allowed to spend on football. compare that with 60+ for most pro teams. the result is you can only do so many looks - so do you have a ton of looks where you have average results or a limited amount that you know like the back of your hand?

our problems are personnel issues on defense along with really poorly coached special teams. the ST problem cascades because you have to spend so many extra hours on it to get it right, which in turn affects the rest of your game because of the practice limits.

You make some very good points. I still wouldn't mind a bit more variety in OUr secondary scheme. Now your point about our special teams is right on.

[jduggle]

Huh? So...are they aggressive or not?

I realize this is an oxymoron...but they play an aggressive zone. Zone coverage by definition isn't an aggressive defense.

But hey... I also agree with you that we don't play near enough man coverage.

[adoniijahsooner]

20 hours a week max. that is all the kids are allowed to spend on football. compare that with 60+ for most pro teams. the result is you can only do so many looks - so do you have a ton of looks where you have average results or a limited amount that you know like the back of your hand?

our problems are personnel issues on defense along with really poorly coached special teams. the ST problem cascades because you have to spend so many extra hours on it to get it right, which in turn affects the rest of your game because of the practice limits.


True, I watching LSU and their defensive personel looks far more superior than ours. especially in the defensive secondary. All those guys look very rangy, whereas Wolfe, Walker, and Holmes appear to be short and stubby on the field.

[Redgiant2]

i've wanted to post something like this since game 1. overall, this defense has a lot more talent than the 2001 defense, but this defense doesn't need talent at every position, it needs great players at a few positions. unfortunately those positions are where we field our weakest players.

the WLB is the lynchpin of this defense, and thus far in venables tenure, we've enjoyed at least all big 12 level play at that position. this year, our linebacker play is as bad as i can remember (prolly going back to the shipp days). it isn't any mark on the individual players as i think they are immensely talented, but they just aren't making plays and more importantly aren't feeding off of each other. to me, reynolds is faster than rufus was, but he is killing whatever speed advantage he has by guessing. when he guesses right, he blows up the play, when he guesses wrong, he might as well not be on the field. at this point, he's at upwards of 80% wrong. tulsa, colorado, and even texas have been preying on him. heck, colorado ran the script to a T -> misdirection runs to isolate reynolds and allow him to get lost in the wash, fake one way and set up a throw to the receiver between the 2 worst positional cover guys on the field (smith and reynolds), and then when that is working go over the top on the backside when walker/holmes either falls asleep or gets caught cheating to help. luckily for us, greg davis is a moron. yeah, he got the TE isolation for some big plays, but that isn't what is going to beat us when our offense is clicking. the key is to run the ball by mixing up the formations and blocking schemes to isolate on reynolds. you can do that because you can always pick up the 1st on 3rd down by sticking a WR/TE between reynolds and smith. wait, that is what jason white did to texas, or more specifically dj, in 2001.

anyway, reynolds might be pretty good by the end of the year or sometime in the future, but right now he is having the same impact this year that having bassey at SS had in 2002 - making an otherwise very talented defense ineffective because of lack of plays.

which brings me to the real problem i'm having watching these guys - they are a pale immitation of a stoops team. reggie smith as a punt returner continues to cost us field position and points. the WRs loaf on their routes when they aren't getting the ball (everyone on this board lauds iglesias but go back and watch that crucial 3rd down drop by finley against colorado and watch iglesias, then tell me who's fault that was).

anyway, enough ranting.

I couldn't agree more. Especially the Greg Davis part. Loafing is becoming one of those awful habits with these guys. The receivers seem disinterested sometimes. Iglesias loafing his routes and sub-par hustle against CU was an embarrassment. The LB play cost OU at Colorado. It was costly playing Texas but not fatal. Will Missouri or better yet can Missouri go to that particular attack and succeed? With a mobile QB and an aggressive offense will Missouri remember who they are long enough to go into a shell and lose in Norman? Will Venables press their receivers? Can the D-line get off the Mizzou O-line as well as it did playing Texas? This Saturday should be telling. There are still lots of questions. I know one thing, if Missouri can run the ball somewhat effectively this weekend OU will not be #5 come Monday.

[Curly Bill]

uh, usc uses the same scheme


Having given it more thought let me further clarify my thoughts: It's not so much that I have a problem with a 2-deep zone, because probably a majority of teams do play some type of cover 2, and as you mention USC being one of them, it's the lack of aggressiveness we show in ours. For example can we not still play cover 2, but with man principles on the corners. Take away the opponents receivers ability to just run free back there, and still have safety help over the top?

Having said that maybe we did do more of that against Saxet because Sweed certainly didn't hurt us, and though I haven't looked at the film as we coaches like to say, I think I did see OU's corners playing up a little tighter this weekend. If so I applaud our staff for making that change.

And can we please come up with some more creative blitz packages?

[TripleOption14]

I agree that it seems like we have played more cover 2 than I can EVER remember!! The thing is..... I don't necessarily think the OU D understands the purpose of the cover 2. In theory it should work because the cover 2 works from the D-line - back. Meaning that in order for it to work right the d-lineman MUST get pressure on the QB which forces the opposing QB to get rid of the ball quick. He shouldn't have time to throw deep however the underneath stuff is typically wide open. The D is basically saying we will give you the underneath stuff with the idea that everyone on the D will run to the ball and tackle and not let YAC yds. occur. Thats not happening. The underneath stuff is open and then no one can get the bastards down. The deep ball for the most part has gone away if you have been paying attention but the 7 yds routes and then the 30+ yds catch and runs are killing us. If your gonna run a Cover 2 you better damn well tackle when you need to otherwise you will get nickel and dimed TO DEATH!!!

[wishbonesooner]

We used to be known for being a very fundamentally strong team, sure tacklers, bodies flying to the ball on every play. Be honest, when we missed that field goal right near the end Saturday, didn't you get a very uneasy feeling that Texas might just bust one and tie it up? I hate to admit it, but I sure did.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

We used to be known for being a very fundamentally strong team, sure tacklers, bodies flying to the ball on every play. Be honest, when we missed that field goal right near the end Saturday, didn't you get a very uneasy feeling that Texas might just bust one and tie it up? I hate to admit it, but I sure did.

let's be honest, when they handed off to a freshman running back on 3rd down and he got strung out when the play was stuffed - how many people were yelling :les: CENTER THE BALL!!!

[cvsooner]

JKM, we have really missed your insightful posts this season. We're halfway through the year and I've been wondering what you thought of this team.

Thanks for the postings. Good to have you back. Can we hire you out as a consultant to Bob and Brent? :)

[MiccoMacey]

Just curious...If our WRs are loafing, how is Sam putting up such good numbers? Are you saying our WRs are so good they can get by with loafing and produce like they are?

[Curly Bill]

I think the impression that our WR's are loafing is a mistaken one. I saw the play where MK appeared to loaf -- however the play was away from him and it was obvious that he was not a part of it. What's he supposed to do: sprint 30 yards downfield just for giggles? I'm fine with him resting on that play, remember he wasn't part of it anyway, for the performance we got from him.

[Redgiant2]

I think the impression that our WR's are loafing is a mistaken one. I saw the play where MK appeared to loaf -- however the play was away from him and it was obvious that he was not a part of it. What's he supposed to do: sprint 30 yards downfield just for giggles? I'm fine with him resting on that play, remember he wasn't part of it anyway, for the performance we got from him.

Good Lord, if you can watch the Colorado game and not come away thinking Iglesias half-assed his way through the entire affair I don't really know what to say. As far as the numbers are concerned, don't let sub-par teams with ****ty defense fool you into thinking someone is hustling when clearly they are not. And yes, if you don't bust your *** on routes because you "think" the ball isn't coming to you that my friends is ****ing lazy. And it deserves to be called out. What if Bradford had checked down to him and he's busy taking a break? Yeah resting during a football game is wise. If you need rest then do more sprints at practice or take a job sitting on your ***. Don't play football.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Just curious...If our WRs are loafing, how is Sam putting up such good numbers? Are you saying our WRs are so good they can get by with loafing and produce like they are?

they are loafing when they aren't the primary or secondary receiver (because that is all the reads that sam has right now).

i challenge you to go back and look at that pass play on 3rd down to finley against colorado. watch iglesias off the line. everyone on this board was railing on finley cause he can't make the tough catch. had iglesias even made a half effort to run a route, the CB could never have cheated that badly to break up the pass play. mind you, iglesias was 10 yards away from finley, on the same side of the ball, late in the 4th quarter, in a tie game, on the road, with a national title on the line. that kind of behavior is why i say this is a pale imitation of a stoops team.

subterfuge is a huge part of football. a QB would great play action fakes has better options than a QB who telegraphs it. as a WR, looking like you are going to get the ball on every play is a huge asset. you have to carry out your fakes to keep the defense from cheating.

the one play that the talking heads pointed out kelly for jogging is an excellent example. bradford was in trouble and no one was covering kelly (they just let him go). had he ran his route hard there was a chance bradford could have gotten him the ball with tons of green. by jogging into his route he didn't get to the open spot quick enough and sam got flushed.

[Curly Bill]

Good Lord, if you can watch the Colorado game and not come away thinking Iglesias half-assed his way through the entire affair I don't really know what to say. As far as the numbers are concerned, don't let sub-par teams with ****ty defense fool you into thinking someone is hustling when clearly they are not. And yes, if you don't bust your *** on routes because you "think" the ball isn't coming to you that my friends is ****ing lazy. And it deserves to be called out. What if Bradford had checked down to him and he's busy taking a break? Yeah resting during a football game is wise. If you need rest then do more sprints at practice or take a job sitting on your ***. Don't play football.

Well, I'm not sure they didn't all half-*** it through the Colorado affair, but that being said there are times when a receiver is just not intended to be a part of the route, and I don't care how open he is or anything else, the QB is not going to look his way. Other times all receivers are intended to be in the route and yeah then they better be busting it.

[Curly Bill]

By the way: Kelly did run a route on the play in question where he was jogging. It is commonly called a FAB route. I'll let you guess what the F stands for but the A & B stand for_____________Around Backside...so just fill in the blank. Like I said there are just times when certain receivers are not intended to be in the route and basically you just tell them to twirl their thumbs or whatever. So, on some plays they just "don't think" the ball isn't coming to them, they KNOW the ball isn't coming to them.

[MikeInNorman]

So, on some plays they just "don't think" the ball isn't coming to them, they KNOW the ball isn't coming to them.

OK, I get it. Good thing the players who know they aren't getting the ball don't need to execute the play. It would be terrible if one of the defensive players thought that receiver might get the ball instead of being able to help cover somebody else.

I guarantee you that the receivers didn't take plays off when Jason White was QB. Well, the ones that played didn't anyway. Heck, we used to make fun of TFRW because it was obvious when he wasn't in the play. TFRW elevated half-a$$ing a route into an art form.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Heck, we used to make fun of TFRW because it was obvious when he wasn't in the play. TFRW elevated half-a$$ing a route into an art form.

this is exactly what i mean when i say we are a pale immitation of a stoops team.

[Curly Bill]

OK, I get it. Good thing the players who know they aren't getting the ball don't need to execute the play. It would be terrible if one of the defensive players thought that receiver might get the ball instead of being able to help cover somebody else.

I guarantee you that the receivers didn't take plays off when Jason White was QB. Well, the ones that played didn't anyway. Heck, we used to make fun of TFRW because it was obvious when he wasn't in the play. TFRW elevated half-a$$ing a route into an art form.


I'm just telling you that the way some plays are designed guys know they aren't a part of it. A WR on the side away from a sprint out pass for example is often not part of the route, you can like that or be greatly opposed to it, but that's the way it is. Now if you want that guy sprinting 30 yards downfield so you can think he's hustling then OK, but it does nobody any good.

If those defensive players are able to tell before the play starts who might or might not get the ball so they can go guard somebody else then I'd submit that with their psychic powers we won't be able to beat them anyway. And if they're able to recognize split second that their receiver isn't part of the play and then be able to go get in on the coverage of someone else then they're too quick for us as well.

Also, if you think that receivers don't take plays off, Jason White at QB or not, then you aren't getting the whole picture. I've watched and coached the game enough to know what really happens, and not what we would want to happen in a perfect world. You know: lets go guys, gotta give 110% on every play! Great if that would happen but it doesn't.

[MikeInNorman]

So, only a couple of players have specific assignments on a play? And the other ones are ordered to sprint 30 yards downfield to make me feel better? Or they don't have anything to do at all?

Dang. I would like to have seen some of the teams you coached. There's obviously a lot I don't know about football. All this time, I thought each player had a job to do on each play which may or may not involve sprinting 30 yards to make me feel better. Even worse, I thought coaches generally expected players to carry out their assigned tasks! Doh! Do I feel stupid!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

well if we run the ball to the right, the left tackle should obviously take that play off because its going away from him.