Secession is Our Watchword

[SicEmBaylor]

The secessionist movement is gaining some steam!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_re_us/secessionist_movement_1

This pleases me a great deal. The League of the South (of which I'm a member) is meeting in Tennessee with some liberal New England organizations to discuss the issue of secession. I think this is a fantastic step that indicates that secession is a viable option across the political spectrum. It shows that centralization and the tyranny of a national government affects every freedom loving American from every state regardless of political orientation.

I'm not advocating the secession of any particular state, but I would love to see it become a viable and accepted option for any state that believes its current association no longer best serves the interests of the citizens of its state.

[sooneron]

tyranny?

[Flagstaffsooner]

We try to jump ship all the time around here.
http://www.rense.com/general47/ariz.htm

[OUDoc]

:rolleyes:

Quitters.

[royalfan5]

As long as we move quickly to build a wall on the Mason-Dixon line. I don't want those types up here.

[frankensooner]

When you drive to the conference in your new wheels, you should have someone take a pic of you standing thoughtfully in front of it, with a lit stogie of course.

[SicEmBaylor]

As long as we move quickly to build a wall on the Mason-Dixon line. I don't want those types up here.

Those are my thoughts exactly -- only, the opposite.

[JohnnyMack]

Don't let the door hit you in the *** on your way out.

[SicEmBaylor]

Don't let the door hit you in the *** on your way out.
Except presumably you'd be going with me since this would only apply to me if OK ever decided to secede for whatever reason.

I'm not saying I want that to happen -- I just want it to be an accepted option in the absolute worst case scenario.

[sooneron]

Except presumably you'd be going with me since this would only apply to me if OK ever decided to secede for whatever reason.

I'm not saying I want that to happen -- I just want it to be an accepted option in the absolute worst case scenario.
Ok, I'll bite, what is the worst case scenario?

[IB4OU2]

The secessionist movement is gaining some steam!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_re_us/secessionist_movement_1

This pleases me a great deal. The League of the South (of which I'm a member) is meeting in Tennessee with some liberal New England organizations to discuss the issue of secession. I think this is a fantastic step that indicates that secession is a viable option across the political spectrum. It shows that centralization and the tyranny of a national government affects every freedom loving American from every state regardless of political orientation.

I'm not advocating the secession of any particular state, but I would love to see it become a viable and accepted option for any state that believes its current association no longer best serves the interests of the citizens of its state.

So do you have a tinfoil crown instead of a hat?

[OUDoc]

Get texas (or whatever state Sic 'Em wants) out of the Union. Declare war on that state. Crush their pathetically small army with our US forces. Take over ex-state as a US territory. Eventually make them a state.
I think I'm missing something.

[jeremy885]

Can we just put them all on trial now, execute them, and put their heads on White House fence?

These people are seriously a waste of space.

[Jerk]

In theory, it would work great. Liberals could be liberals and conservatives could be conservatives. You wouldn't have Oklahoma abortion laws in New York, and you wouldn't have California gun control laws in Oklahoma. This way, at least people aren't voting their will against other populations.

Practically, though, the Fed.Gov is the most powerful man-made entity that has ever existed on the face of the earth, and they will not let this happen. We tried this abou 150 years ago and it didn't work then, and it won't work now. They called it a 'Civil War.' This term applies to an internal struggle to control a government. What the south did was a war for independence, and they got beat down by the much greater populated and industrialized norte, but not before many a yankee boy was sent to Hades. Now the libs are stuck with all of those red states who vote Repub in every national election.

Brothers, if it ever does happen again, we need to discuss a little problem we face: All of the great gun makers are in Illinois, Connecticut, and Massachusetts. But at least we have Sabre Defense (TN), Knight's Armament (FL), and Barrett (TN).

[OklahomaTuba]

People's Republik of Vermont does have a nice ring to it.

[Okla-homey]

The secessionist movement is gaining some steam!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_re_us/secessionist_movement_1

This pleases me a great deal. The League of the South (of which I'm a member) is meeting in Tennessee with some liberal New England organizations to discuss the issue of secession. I think this is a fantastic step that indicates that secession is a viable option across the political spectrum. It shows that centralization and the tyranny of a national government affects every freedom loving American from every state regardless of political orientation.

I'm not advocating the secession of any particular state, but I would love to see it become a viable and accepted option for any state that believes its current association no longer best serves the interests of the citizens of its state.

You might wanna reconsider that LOSer membership. They have been officially designated a hate group by The Southern Poverty Law Center. Before you dismiss that as being no big deal, know that the Justice Department pays attention when SPLC puts a group on its list.

Frankly, I should think any politician would think twice about employing anyone with membership in that organization. My assessment on the ground when I've been exposed to them and their vitriole is LOS are just Klansmen in neckties and blazers vice the sheets and pointy hoods. Seriously.

Also know, your affiliation probably won't be viewed as youthful indiscretion when it becomes a liability someday. That sort of thing leaves a mark.

[SicEmBaylor]

Can we just put them all on trial now, execute them, and put their heads on White House fence?

These people are seriously a waste of space.

On trial for what? I thought THE founding principle of this nation was the belief that individuals have the right to govern themselves and to that end establish a government of their choosing that secures their needs. If a government no longer does that and the great proportion of individuals in a state wish to establish a new government for themselves then coercing them into remaining in a political compact that is no longer of their choosing is the essence of tyranny.

Anyway, that is the "worst case scenerio" to me.

[85Sooner]

God, state succession would actually allow the states to be allowed to follow the bill of rights. What a novel idea. I am sure someone thought of it until the big bad feds decided they wanted the power. Seems like we already had a little skirmish about that. anyone for a redo on that?


Lock and load folks. My weapons aren't for hunting they are for when that happens

[frankensooner]

Hey Homey, do you think sicem's membership in the John Birch Society will hurt him someday too? How about the Logcabin Republicans? ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

You might wanna reconsider that LOSer membership. They have been officially designated a hate group by The Southern Poverty Law Center. Before you dismiss that as being no big deal, know that the Justice Department pays attention when SPLC puts a group on its list.

Frankly, I should think any politician would think twice about employing anyone with membership in that organization. My assessment on the ground when I've been exposed to them and their vitriole is LOS are just Klansmen in neckties and blazers vice the sheets and pointy hoods. Seriously.

Also know, your affiliation probably won't be viewed as youthful indiscretion when it becomes a liability someday. That sort of thing leaves a mark.

Homey, I don't want to disappoint but I don't wake up in the morning and wonder what the Southern Poverty Law Center thinks about my associations.

[jeremy885]

On trial for what? I thought THE founding principle of this nation was the belief that individuals have the right to govern themselves and to that end establish a government of their choosing that secures their needs. If a government no longer does that and the great proportion of individuals in a state wish to establish a new government for themselves then coercing them into remaining in a political compact that is no longer of their choosing is the essence of tyranny.

Anyway, that is the "worst case scenerio" to me.


Being traitors. if you don't like how the country is governed, get some like minded people together and vote someone in who supports your views. If you can't get enough votes to do that, well maybe it's a bad idea and everyone thinks your nuts. You can't just go and say "I'm going to form my own country because I disagree with x, y, z". Democracy is about compromise and not getting what you want is part of the game in a free country of 300 million people.

[SicEmBaylor]

Being traitors. if you don't like how the country is governed, get some like minded people together and vote someone in who supports your views. If you can't get enough votes to do that, well maybe it's a bad idea and everyone thinks your nuts. You can't just go and say "I'm going to form my own country because I disagree with x, y, z". Democracy is about compromise and not getting what you want is part of the game in a free country of 300 million people.

You're absolutely right. Anyone is an idiot who would advocate secession based on a single issue or even a handful of issues that are political disputes in and of themselves and not indicative of a wider political problem. In order to justify such an act in my eyes you would need a serious fundamental shift in the nation's political system stacks the deck against a particular state (or even region) to the point that on EVERY individual issue the needs of state are repressed. I believe this is what happened originally, and I totally believe it could happen again (since I believe the nation is slowly moving in that direction).

[Jerk]

They have been officially designated a hate group by The Southern Poverty Law Center.

They probably list the Boy Scouts as a militia group and the NRA as a bunch of insurgents. Yeah, I'm sure they did good work back in the days of the Civil Rights movement when it needed to be done. But now? They're another crackpot leftist org.

[SicEmBaylor]

They probably list the Boy Scouts as a militia group and the NRA as a bunch of insurgents. Yeah, I'm sure they did good work back in the days of the Civil Rights movement when it needed to be done. But now? They're another crackpot leftist org.

That's exactly and precisely what they are.

They consider any organization somewhat right of center to be questionably racist to a point. To be fair, they certainly target plenty of legitimate racist/white-supremacist organizations but they also lob plenty of others in with that lot as well.

There are several alternative organizations to the SPLC which, surprise surprise, they've labeled as racist. :rolleyes:

[OUDoc]

tyranny?
I think he meant "tranny".

[TUSooner]

Let's see, which states would fight the "GWOT" or send its young men and women to war in Iraq, and which ones would join OPEC, and ...get the picture? There is a union for a reason.
Tinfoil crowns indeed!

[Stoop Dawg]

Which states could even survive on their own? Maybe Texas, California, Alaska? Certainly not Oklahoma.

If the population of any state in this country is collectively dumb enough to want to leave, then our education system is even worse than I thought.

[SicEmBaylor]

Let's see, which states would fight the "GWOT" or send its young men and women to war in Iraq, and which ones would join OPEC, and ...get the picture? There is a union for a reason.
Tinfoil crowns indeed!

The Union is a great thing. A great great thing, and I totally and absolutely believe in the Union. I believe in a Union of equal states though not a Union of coercion or a Union "in name only" that is a totally centralized national government.

I believe in the Union as it was suppose to be.

[TUSooner]

Which states could even survive on their own? Maybe Texas, California, Alaska? Certainly not Oklahoma.

If the population of any state in this country is collectively dumb enough to want to leave, then our education system is even worse than I thought.
EgggggZACKTallly.
:D

[JohnnyMack]

You're absolutely right. Anyone is an idiot who would advocate secession based on a single issue or even a handful of issues that are political disputes in and of themselves and not indicative of a wider political problem. In order to justify such an act in my eyes you would need a serious fundamental shift in the nation's political system stacks the deck against a particular state (or even region) to the point that on EVERY individual issue the needs of state are repressed. I believe this is what happened originally, and I totally believe it could happen again (since I believe the nation is slowly moving in that direction).

And I think you're overreacting.

But if you feel SO strongly about this, why not provide us a list of all the needs of states that you consider so repressed that secession is the only answer.

Now, I'm all for a less obstrusive, less cumbersome, less Hillary-infested Gubmint, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think secession is the answer.

Enlighten us, please.

[silverwheels]

If the population of any state in this country is collectively dumb enough to want to leave, then our education system is even worse than I thought.

It is worse than you think, anyway. ;)

[Stoop Dawg]

Well, free trade is kind of a bitch. Wouldn't it be nice if each state could set its own import/export tariffs?

And federal currency sucks too. You should have to exchange your money every time you go to a different state.

Also, funding and training your own state militia would be awesome.

I don't know why every state isn't on board with this. It's really a no-brainer.

[SicEmBaylor]

And I think you're overreacting.

But if you feel SO strongly about this, why not provide us a list of all the needs of states that you consider so repressed that secession is the only answer.

Now, I'm all for a less obstrusive, less cumbersome, less Hillary-infested Gubmint, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think secession is the answer.

Enlighten us, please.

As I've been stating, I don't think there is any reason for any state to secede (at the moment). I can't provide you with an example, because I don't believe any state could possibly make the case at present.

What I do believe is that the states have the reserved right to secede and people should recognize that right. Just reserving the option also has a profound philosophical effect on how you view the states.

[Mongo]

There needs to be a way for the states to not be strong armed into what the Feds want. And using secession as the weapon of choice is not the way to go.

The states should be telling the feds what to do. The states should make the funded and unfunded mandates to make the feds do what the states want. Not the other way around.


If the house and senate are going to play with our dollars that go to the fed., turn off the spicket. That will get the attention of the almighty government when they realize they cant go willy nilly with our $$ more than an attempt to divide the union

[SicEmBaylor]

There needs to be a way for the states to not be strong armed into what the Feds want. And using secession as the weapon of choice is not the way to go.

The states should be telling the feds what to do. The states should make the funded and unfunded mandates to make the feds do what the states want. Not the other way around.


If the house and senate are going to play with our dollars that go to the fed., turn off the spicket. That will get the attention of the almighty government when they realize they cant go willy nilly with our $$ more than an attempt to divide the union

EXACTLY! It's not just money although that's certainly most of the problem.
My only disagreement here is that in order for the states to do those things then people have to believe, once again, that this is a nation built on a system of dual sovereignty between two distinct political entities. Whether secession is used or not, the recognition of the right means that a person must view the state as a sovereign unit.

[Stoop Dawg]

Who are these "Feds" that we are talking about? Where do they live? How many senators and reps do they have? Who elects them?

[Mongo]

Who are these "Feds" that we are talking about? Where do they live? How many senators and reps do they have? Who elects them?

If you are trying to make the point of "we elect the fed. government officials, therefore it is our fault", I understand that. It is our fault for for putting a doosh in there.

But lets be honest, event the best rep or senator spends more time worrying about what the fed gov is doing rather than representing their own state and carrying the will of his people to that level. They dont listen.

Voters need to be more invovled at the state level.

[JohnnyMack]

If you are trying to make the point of "we elect the fed. government officials, therefore it is our fault", I understand that. It is our fault for for putting a doosh in there.

But lets be honest, event the best rep or senator spends more time worrying about what the fed gov is doing rather than representing their own state and carrying the will of his people to that level. They dont listen.

Voters need to be more invovled at the state level.

Fine. Eliminate lobbying all together. That would rule.

[TUSooner]

***But lets be honest, event the best rep or senator spends more time worrying about what the fed gov is doing rather than representing their own state and carrying the will of his people to that level. They dont listen.....
I'm not sure that is correct. My daughter took some honors course (at PC North, I think, woo-hoo) and studied reasearch showing that federal legislators spend a great deal of their time dealing with their constutents and local issues with an eye toward re-election. I can't state numbers, but the point -- based on interviews with real congressmen and senators -- was that they don't usually devote THAT much time or energy to truly national issues because they are schmoozing and legitimately serving the home folks.
If this post has nothing to do with what you were actually getting at, please ignore it. :rolleyes:

[Frozen Sooner]

Alaska probably couldn't survive on our own. We get a LOT of federal dollars.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm not sure that is correct. My daughter took some honors course (at PC North, I think, woo-hoo) and studied reasearch showing that federal legislators spend a great deal of their time dealing with their constutents and local issues with an eye toward re-election. I can't state numbers, but the point -- based on interviews with real congressmen and senators -- was that they don't usually devote THAT much time or energy to truly national issues because they are schmoozing and legitimately serving the home folks.
If this post has nothing to do with what you were actually getting at, please ignore it. :rolleyes:

You're both right, TU. Here is the problem, most people believe that their Federal representatives/Senators are responsible for every daily concern and/or issue they have with government. The Federal level is where most people look to solve a great deal of issues that are best handled on the state and local level. People no longer look to their local representatives to solve these problems -- they look to D.C.

The result is that you do have Senators/Reps spending a lot of time with constituents on "local issues" -- the problem is that they shouldn't be. A tremendous amount of time is spent working on issues that the people should look to their local officials for help with instead.

[Mongo]

I'm not sure that is correct. My daughter took some honors course (at PC North, I think, woo-hoo) and studied reasearch showing that federal legislators spend a great deal of their time dealing with their constutents and local issues with an eye toward re-election. I can't state numbers, but the point -- based on interviews with real congressmen and senators -- was that they don't usually devote THAT much time or energy to truly national issues because they are schmoozing and legitimately serving the home folks.
If this post has nothing to do with what you were actually getting at, please ignore it. :rolleyes:

So, i am supposed to beleive a "study" done that your high school honor student daughter read then told to you?

It maybe correct. Lets say it is. Then it gets into the fact that when a bill comes across, a lot of senators and reps dont even read them. And there is always added clauses in there, like "I'll vote to pass this bill if we add in this so my state can benefit from this in another way." That is blackmail at its finest.

[IB4OU2]

I'm not sure that is correct. My daughter took some honors course (at PC North, I think, woo-hoo) and studied reasearch showing that federal legislators spend a great deal of their time dealing with their constutents and local issues with an eye toward re-election. I can't state numbers, but the point -- based on interviews with real congressmen and senators -- was that they don't usually devote THAT much time or energy to truly national issues because they are schmoozing and legitimately serving the home folks.
If this post has nothing to do with what you were actually getting at, please ignore it. :rolleyes:

Yea, Mary Fallon loves schmooching and serving the OHP.

[Stoop Dawg]

"I'll vote to pass this bill if we add in this so my state can benefit from this in another way."

So they are looking out for their state's interest after all?

I don't think that the problem is with some over-powered federal government. Rather, the individual states are sucking so hard off the federal teat that they are now actually enslaved by it. The answer isn't secession. It's taking responsibility for yourself.

Prime example: Why exactly is the city of Dallas trying to get Federal dollars to build some parks along the Trinity? Why do the people of Florida and California need to pay for parks in Dallas?

[Frozen Sooner]

Better question: Why are the people of Oklahoma paying for a highway in Florida that had funding inserted into a bill for it by a Senator from Alaska?

[Stoop Dawg]

Better question: Why are the people of Oklahoma paying for a highway in Florida that had funding inserted into a bill for it by a Senator from Alaska?

IT'S THE FEDS!!!

Try to keep up.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

At the right time, the seceding states could prolly hook up with Quebec, for some political clout, and military inspiration for the national guard,...eh?

[sooneron]

Threads like this make me scamper back to the FB noobs.

[TUSooner]

So, i am supposed to beleive a "study" done that your high school honor student daughter read then told to you?

It maybe correct. Lets say it is. Then it gets into the fact that when a bill comes across, a lot of senators and reps dont even read them. And there is always added clauses in there, like "I'll vote to pass this bill if we add in this so my state can benefit from this in another way." That is blackmail at its finest.
You should believe it simply because I SAID IT! :rolleyes:

:D
I actually read the study; I didn't get it 2nd hand. I can't say it had no flaws, but it was based on information gathered directly from Congressmen and Senators about what they actually do. I think part of it said that the longer they are in office, the more they are able focus on federal policy, which is what most of them want to do anyway.
But there is certainly wheeling and dealing and pork barrelling etc, as we know. I don't see how secession is the answer to that - except that there would be no reason or way for any former state to get diddly from a union state any more.

____________________
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[jeremy885]

So, i am supposed to beleive a "study" done that your high school honor student daughter read then told to you?

It maybe correct. Lets say it is. Then it gets into the fact that when a bill comes across, a lot of senators and reps dont even read them. And there is always added clauses in there, like "I'll vote to pass this bill if we add in this so my state can benefit from this in another way." That is blackmail at its finest.

Or compromise? You've never agreed to do something for someone else without having them promise to something for you?

[Mongo]

Or compromise? You've never agreed to do something for someone else without having them promise to something for you?

I agree with compromising, it is something we have to do in order to function as a whole.

But there have been cases of reps and sens. adding in specific points in a bill that also earmarks money for them to do what they want. Why not draft your own bill and see if it will fly? Maybe casue it wont, and this is the only way to get the $$$

anyway, I am not a tinfoil hat wearer when it comes to the federal gov. It is needed for several reasons, and I want it to be powerful so no other country will f with us, but that is it.

All's I am trying to say is that it is much easier to micromanage than it is to manage the entire populous.

[Mongo]

I can't say it had no flaws, but it was based on information gathered directly from Congressmen and Senators about what they actually do.

There is your problem, you think they answered it truthfully:D

[Scott D]

The secessionist movement is gaining some steam!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_re_us/secessionist_movement_1

This pleases me a great deal. The League of the South (of which I'm a member) is meeting in Tennessee with some liberal New England organizations to discuss the issue of secession. I think this is a fantastic step that indicates that secession is a viable option across the political spectrum. It shows that centralization and the tyranny of a national government affects every freedom loving American from every state regardless of political orientation.

I'm not advocating the secession of any particular state, but I would love to see it become a viable and accepted option for any state that believes its current association no longer best serves the interests of the citizens of its state.

That's why the only state that has been anywhere near actually voting on secession in the last century is Hawaii.

Enjoy your little pipe dream group. You can all sit in your stolen barcaloungers, with pretentious talk smoking your bubble pipes with your top hats and monocles.

[SicEmBaylor]

That's why the only state that has been anywhere near actually voting on secession in the last century is Hawaii.

Enjoy your little pipe dream group. You can all sit in your stolen barcaloungers, with pretentious talk smoking your bubble pipes with your top hats and monocles.

I saw that you were the last person who replied to this thread and even before I opened it up I sighed and thought to myself, "My God he is going to berate me."

[Scott D]

I let you off easy, I think you probably got berated enough in this thread.

[Harry Beanbag]

Threads like this make me scamper back to the FB noobs.


The word scamper reminds me of John Brooks.

[PhilTLL]

"Let us never deny, for the sake of pleasing the implacable Cultural Marxists, that we--the descendants of white, European Christians--are central to a movement to preserve and advance a particular civilization, cultural inheritance, and physical place." - J. Michael Hill, founder/president, League of the South, March 2005

He also opposes the horrid blasphemies called intermarriage and miscegenation, wants only land-owning white males to vote, thinks antebellum slavery was "sanctioned and regulated according to God's word," and believes the South is essentially different because it was "settled Anglo-Celtic."

Another gem: "Let us not flinch when our enemies call us 'racists;' rather just reply with, 'So what's your point?' "

We had this war already; the CSA ****ing lost. But please, by all means, try again; I don't think it would take nearly as long to fail this time. The US probably wouldn't get around to scrambling airstrikes before the New Confederacy imploded.

[JohnnyMack]

The word scamper reminds me of John Brooks.


Trip threes on the board. Timeout, Oklahoma.

God I miss him.

[Harry Beanbag]

God I miss him.


Me too, and I don't even have to listen to Bob Barry.

[Jerk]

We had this war already; the CSA ****ing lost. But please, by all means, try again; I don't think it would take nearly as long to fail this time. The US probably wouldn't get around to scrambling airstrikes before the New Confederacy imploded.
Impossible! The New England Yankees are pacifists and would rather hold hands and sing kumbaya rather than drop cluster bombs on babies. Cluster bombs!!!! Some of them don't explode on impact and will only detonate 10 years later when played with by a child. At least, this is what I hear from these people when it comes to bombing Muslim terrorists who want to destroy us. However, when it comes to rednecks and hillbillies who vote for the kk..er...republicans, all bets are off, right?

These blue state guys (http://sfphototour.tripod.com/gay_parade.html) are too busy conquering each others arseholes for me to worry about them taking over the South.

[Frozen Sooner]

"Let us never deny, for the sake of pleasing the implacable Cultural Marxists, that we--the descendants of white, European Christians--are central to a movement to preserve and advance a particular civilization, cultural inheritance, and physical place." - J. Michael Hill, founder/president, League of the South, March 2005

He also opposes the horrid blasphemies called intermarriage and miscegenation, wants only land-owning white males to vote, thinks antebellum slavery was "sanctioned and regulated according to God's word," and believes the South is essentially different because it was "settled Anglo-Celtic."

Another gem: "Let us not flinch when our enemies call us 'racists;' rather just reply with, 'So what's your point?' "

We had this war already; the CSA ****ing lost. But please, by all means, try again; I don't think it would take nearly as long to fail this time. The US probably wouldn't get around to scrambling airstrikes before the New Confederacy imploded.

Dude, there you go, believing the lies of those Jews and blacks at the Souther Poverty Law Center.

[Jerk]

Dude, there you go, believing the lies of those Jews and blacks at the Souther Poverty Law Center.

Yep, when they label groups opposed to ILLEGAL immigration as HATE groups, they're sure hard to believe:rolleyes:

[SicEmBaylor]

Yep, when they label groups opposed to ILLEGAL immigration as HATE groups, they're sure hard to believe:rolleyes:
I wonder if they also condemn the founder of Planned Parenthood as a racist organization for the things she said.

I wonder if they condemn the Democratic Party for once supporting Slavery...

[Frozen Sooner]

Yep, when they label groups opposed to ILLEGAL immigration as HATE groups, they're sure hard to believe:rolleyes:

You don't think anything that Phil quoted sounds racist at all?

Really?

[Jerk]

You don't think anything that Phil quoted sounds racist at all?

Really?

I wasn't addressing that. What the SPLC does is take a bunch of obviously racist groups like the KKK, Aryan Nation, etc, and condemn them as a "hate group." Fine. Nothing wrong with that. But then what they do is find main- stream conservative groups, like those opposed to illegal immigration, and lump them into the same category as the Klan. Therefore, the "ohhh...they're on SPLC's watch list" doesn't mean sh*t to me. They're a left-wing front group. Nothing more.

[Frozen Sooner]

Can you give me an example of a main-stream conservative group that they've listed as a hate group?

I notice that they list the Nation of Islam as a hate group.

[Jerk]

http://www.statenews.com/index.php/article/2007/03/law_center_lists_yaf

[Frozen Sooner]

Beirich said three of the main reasons MSU's YAF was placed on the list were its constant use of slur words the proposal that the governance for MSU to be white supremacist and its "constant immigrant bashing."

Poorly written, but yeah, if a group says that the student government should be white supremacist and uses racial slurs all the time, I'd say they're probably a hate group.

[OUinFLA]

Get texas (or whatever state Sic 'Em wants) out of the Union. Declare war on that state. Crush their pathetically small army with our US forces. Take over ex-state as a US territory. Eventually make them a state.
I think I'm missing something.


yes......... then we would have to support them.

[SicEmBaylor]

Poorly written, but yeah, if a group says that the student government should be white supremacist and uses racial slurs all the time, I'd say they're probably a hate group.

lol, YAF is decidedly not a hate group. I know a lot of YAFers and they're like Alex P. Keaton clones down to the person.

[Frozen Sooner]

Here's some more on your so-called mainstream conservative group:

-This semester, they left flyers all over campus stating "Fags spread AIDS"
-They posted on their website that Michigan State was offering a "Doctorate in Savagery" in response to MSU's new Latino/Chicano degree program.

[Frozen Sooner]

lol, YAF is decidedly not a hate group. I know a lot of YAFers and they're like Alex P. Keaton clones down to the person.

The SPLC explicitly states that they are differentiating between the Michigan State chapter and the national organization.

[Jerk]

Poorly written, but yeah, if a group says that the student government should be white supremacist and uses racial slurs all the time, I'd say they're probably a hate group.
And who says that they do? Sounds more like an accusation to me.

edit- okay, this is confusing. We have two YAF groups here.

[Jerk]

Damn, what's up with Tulsa?

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?S=OK&m=5

[SicEmBaylor]

Damn, what's up with Tulsa?

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?S=OK&m=5

Muskogee has one as well. Some Christian book publishing company. :confused:

[SicEmBaylor]

Waco has a militant jewish organization apparently. I don't know how many Jews there could possibly be in Waco.

[Jerk]

Waco has a militant jewish organization apparently. I don't know how many Jews there could possibly be in Waco.

JDL? I didn't know they were a hate group.

[SicEmBaylor]

JDL? I didn't know they were a hate group.
According to the SPLC they are.

[47straight]

Man, that would be awesome if Vermont tried to secede. Lucky soldiers in the first wave. Not that New Hampshire couldn't roll over those bitches in 2 hours anyways. Reconstruction would include making all dirty hippies take a bath and stripping the territory of all their maple syrup and ice cream profits. Martial law and curfew, with no Phish being played after 10 pm.

[Okla-homey]

They probably list the Boy Scouts as a militia group and the NRA as a bunch of insurgents. Yeah, I'm sure they did good work back in the days of the Civil Rights movement when it needed to be done. But now? They're another crackpot leftist org.

No, actually, its pretty much just the Klan, Nation of Islam, the League of the South, and some Aryan NeoNazi types. In fact, I once had a conversation with one of the folks who compiles the list and tracks their activities, incidental to a security clearance issue for one of my people. As it turns out, they are often called as witnesses in hearings involving such matters.

Here's their map of whack-jobs operating in Oklahoma.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?S=OK&m=5

[TUSooner]

No, actually, its pretty much just the Klan, Nation of Islam, the League of the South, and some Aryan NeoNazi types. In fact, I once had a conversation with one of the folks who compiles the list and tracks their activities, incidental to a security clearance issue for one of my people. As it turns out, they are often called as witnesses in hearings involving such matters.

Here's their map of whack-jobs operating in Oklahoma.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?S=OK&m=5
Heh. They list "general hate" as a group. Some days I think I'm a member.