OU CB's playing back as seen from my seat

[colleyvillesooner]

Many people mentioned this, so I figure I would post this. This was in the 3rd quarter, on the drive when CU kicked a FG. The ball is about 1 second from being snapped (See QB's leg), It's 2nd and 4, and Marcus Walker is 8 Yards off the line, 9 yards off his receiver. Reggie on the other side is a yard even farther back.

This was happening all game. Maybe that was the plan, keep everything in front of them, but it's not like through 2 1/2 quarters, they'd been killing us with the deep ball. I kinda got sick of seeing them pick up 3rd and shorts with little outs.

I do not know as much as the coaches, just something I and others saw, and I found this picture that illustrates it. That's it. Maybe it can be explained through some formation or alignment that's way over my head.

Beat Texas.

and play DB's a little closer ;)


http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4150/thdsc04944yc1.jpg

[arlington]

Great shot Colleyville. And any plan that includes playing soft zone coverage against a 5'11 Qb with an arm that is only capable of throwing short routes and a receiver group that is nondescript at best is a stupid, cowardly plan..These are the kinda teams you get aggressive against because they dont have the personnell to make you pay for it.

[birddog]

sucks you got stuck with such crappy seats.

[birddog]

Great shot Colleyville. And any plan that includes playing soft zone coverage against a 5'11 Qb with an arm that is only capable of throwing short routes and a receiver group that is nondescript at best is a stupid, cowardly plan..These are the kinda teams you get aggressive against because they dont have the personnell to make you pay for it.

that's what i believe too. they don't really have weapons to beat us deep. sure looks too soft to me. but perhaps someone can explain it in more detail.

[snp]

No it wasn't the plan. Reggie and Marcus played like sissies that game.

[Pigface1]

I thought the exact same thing. It's like they got burned on a couple of deep balls against Tulsa, so they just threw their hands in the air and made the CBs play deep. And by "they," I mean Vennables.

3rd and long, same deal. I'm not a coach at all, but it seems to me that 3rd and long = tee off on the QB. And third and short you sure as hell get up tight on the receivers. Instead, we fell back into some sort of prevent all day. Maybe once or twice we blitzed one LB, but that's it.

No bump and run on the WRs? Come on, put it on the players to make a play.

There were some nice defensive plays, but man, force the QB to make quick decisions.

[critical_phil]

it's just a joke, people.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/critical_phil/cugame.jpg

[snp]

3rd and long, same deal. I'm not a coach at all, but it seems to me that 3rd and long = tee off on the QB. And third and short you sure as hell get up tight on the receivers. Instead, we fell back into some sort of prevent all day. Maybe once or twice we blitzed one LB, but that's it.

Rewatch the game if you're a masochist like myself. They sent the backers in a lot more than that and Reggie came on a few CB blitzes.

[aurorasooner]

Game is on FCSC again right now and just as your pic shows we're way off the ball. btw, I think those umps tonight in the Rockies/Padres game are moonlighting from the Big12 conference and just drove in from Boulder. Although happy about it, I'm still scratching my head about that call at the plate for the W. It looked like Holiday never touched the plate, and then when the San Diego catcher picked up the ball to go back and tag him, the ump signaled a late safe call.

[85Sooner]

it's just a joke, people.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/critical_phil/cugame.jpg


rmaoflol

[fwsooner22]

Its OU-tx week boys!

[Pigface1]

Rewatch the game if you're a masochist like myself. They sent the backers in a lot more than that and Reggie came on a few CB blitzes.

I'm talking specifically on third and long when we can get them off the field. I saw a couple 5 man rushes, but that was it. ?

Reggie played real well defensively, IMO. It's amazing how much harder he's hitting this year.

[OUmillenium]

Right on Pigface. This stuff happens waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too often and not just vs. Colorado. Venables...ugh

[KRYPTON]

I thought the exact same thing. It's like they got burned on a couple of deep balls against Tulsa, so they just threw their hands in the air and made the CBs play deep. And by "they," I mean Vennables.

...

No bump and run on the WRs? Come on, put it on the players to make a play.

There were some nice defensive plays, but man, force the QB to make quick decisions.

Venables isn't coaching the defensive backs or calling their signals, though he is calling the overall defense. IMO this one falls on Bobby Jack Wright and Bob Stoops. I don't like to target particular coaches but watching the camp videos on soonersports.com in August... it was like Sesame Street, "one of these kids is doing his own thing." Patton is out there teaching, Venables is barking and hollering but teaching, Heupel's barely raising his voice to the QB's, meanwhile BJW is out there just cussing up a storm at the DB's and not really saying anything. I'm concerned that BJW is just there for his Texas high school connections in recruiting - but our secondary has not been an actual strength of the team since he started coaching it.

Your second points are absolutely right. People are getting to the soft parts of the zones too easily and quickly, timing patterns are working, we get pressure from the front four but then the QB can just hum it downfield and pray and it works. The WR's are not having trouble getting past our DB's, because the DB's are just attempting to follow them around like blind puppies. Venables preaches "violence" to his LB's, why can't the DB's be violent in the first five yards?

Punching a dude in the chest off the line of scrimmage is neither pass interference or defensive holding. Someone needs to get ANGRY :rcmad:

[sanantoniosooner]

rmaoflol
you'll have to help out with this one..........

"rubbing my *** on floor laughing out loud"?

[TexasEx4OU]

Between myself and the OU fan sitting behind me at the game, we must have said about a dozen times, outloud, "Why are our corners playing so soft at the line?". Time and again...3rd & 7, 3rd & 8, and we're 10-12 yards off the line of scrimmage. Quick out pattern...first down CU. Maddening.

[SoonerGM]

kind of hard to disguise the defense when the db's start the play already in thier coverage zones.

[TexasLidig8r]

Picture just sent to Greg Davis who is planning the entire gameplan around that pic. Thanks Colley!

[sanantoniosooner]

Picture just sent to Greg Davis who is planning the entire gameplan around that pic. Thanks Colley!
Greg Davis planning.................good one.

[colleyvillesooner]

Picture just sent to Greg Davis who is planning the entire gameplan around that pic. Thanks Colley!

That's probably, true, cause we all know he doesn't watch game film before the RRS. :D

[birddog]

would he know how to exploit an empty secondary scheme like c_p's photo?

[sooneron]

I find it laughable that people keep throwing BV's name out there for blame and yet, none for the Co-coord BJW. BJW, who [gasp!] coaches the secondary!


:rolleyes:

[Pigface1]

Venables isn't coaching the defensive backs or calling their signals, though he is calling the overall defense. IMO this one falls on Bobby Jack Wright and Bob Stoops. I don't like to target particular coaches but watching the camp videos on soonersports.com in August... it was like Sesame Street, "one of these kids is doing his own thing." Patton is out there teaching, Venables is barking and hollering but teaching, Heupel's barely raising his voice to the QB's, meanwhile BJW is out there just cussing up a storm at the DB's and not really saying anything. I'm concerned that BJW is just there for his Texas high school connections in recruiting - but our secondary has not been an actual strength of the team since he started coaching it.

Your second points are absolutely right. People are getting to the soft parts of the zones too easily and quickly, timing patterns are working, we get pressure from the front four but then the QB can just hum it downfield and pray and it works. The WR's are not having trouble getting past our DB's, because the DB's are just attempting to follow them around like blind puppies. Venables preaches "violence" to his LB's, why can't the DB's be violent in the first five yards?

Punching a dude in the chest off the line of scrimmage is neither pass interference or defensive holding. Someone needs to get ANGRY :rcmad:

I agree.

And it's not that I expect them to shut someone down 3 and out, or hold everyone scoreless, or win every game. But damn, come on. . the same mistakes/lack of intensity in the same areas have come up time and time again. I don't understand it.

[Pigface1]

I find it laughable that people keep throwing BV's name out there for blame and yet, none for the Co-coord BJW. BJW, who [gasp!] coaches the secondary!


:rolleyes:

Vennables has never had a problem getting in people's faces when they're screwing up. But, you're right. He must just be intimidated by BJW, or maybe he just didn't notice our CBs were half way to Argentina whenever they lined up and so that's why he didn't step in to make an adjustment in his defense. :rolleyes:

[ougrad2008]

IMO, if the offense handles its own this weekend, the defense will become more aggressive. i know, thats ridiculous that it takes having a comfortable lead for them to become aggressive. i just hope KW comes out swinging, with alot of different pass plays. if we can get a lead, we can pile it on colt and cause turnovers!

[KRYPTON]

For me it comes down to this:

Choice #1: Maddening busts in secondary play allowing draws and delays to work on the ground while giving up massive deep plays that change the complexion of the game,

-or-

Choice #2: Maddening busts in secondary play allowing draws and delays to work on the ground while giving up massive deep plays that change the complexion of the game while hitting the opposing QB so hard that he McNabbs repeatedly while throwing us a few free INT-TD's.


I'll take #2. We're getting #1.


I looked at the picture again and realized UT is soooo hosed. Greg Davis will look at that picture and think "aww crap... their DB is already standing seven yards downfield where we're throwing that quick-out on third and 15..."

[mightysooner]

The responsibility for defensive schemes, including where everybody lines up, ends with Venables, not BJW. Venables also calls the defensive plays yet he's consistently shown the inability to stop anybody when we need to during his tenure, and we haven't won a big game with him at the helm. In fact...we've been dominated and/or blown out in most of our big games (including bowls) with Venables at that helm and consistenly gotten in dogfights with teams we should destroy (A&M, Baylor, Washington, Oregon, OSU, T-Tech, Tulsa at home, Boise State, UAB at home, Bowling Green at home). Coincidence? Think about it....

There's more to being a DECO than yelling in people faces at practice. Venables is a deer in the headlights on game day when he's playing anybody with any sort of offense, and now he can't even stop teams that don't have an offense (ie., Colorado).

[OKC-SLC]

it's just a joke, people.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/critical_phil/cugame.jpg
heh.

[sooneron]

The responsibility for defensive schemes, including where everybody lines up, ends with Venables, not BJW. Venables also calls the defensive plays yet he's consistently shown the inability to stop anybody when we need to during his tenure, and we haven't won a big game with him at the helm. In fact...we've been dominated and/or blown out in most of our big games (including bowls) with Venables at that helm and consistenly gotten in dogfights with teams we should destroy (A&M, Baylor, Washington, Oregon, OSU, T-Tech, Tulsa at home, Boise State, UAB at home, Bowling Green at home). Coincidence? Think about it....

There's more to being a DECO than yelling in people faces at practice. Venables is a deer in the headlights on game day when he's playing anybody with any sort of offense, and now he can't even stop teams that don't have an offense (ie., Colorado).
I believe that BJW has more responsibility than you do. Agree to disagree. Capisce?

[CU Sooner]

The responsibility for defensive schemes, including where everybody lines up, ends with Venables, not BJW. Venables also calls the defensive plays yet he's consistently shown the inability to stop anybody when we need to during his tenure, and we haven't won a big game with him at the helm. In fact...we've been dominated and/or blown out in most of our big games (including bowls) with Venables at that helm and consistenly gotten in dogfights with teams we should destroy (A&M, Baylor, Washington, Oregon, OSU, T-Tech, Tulsa at home, Boise State, UAB at home, Bowling Green at home). Coincidence? Think about it....

There's more to being a DECO than yelling in people faces at practice. Venables is a deer in the headlights on game day when he's playing anybody with any sort of offense, and now he can't even stop teams that don't have an offense (ie., Colorado).

Shut out uterus, won the Big 12, the Holiday Bowl, and many others. Last saturday was not the D's fault, the D provided 14 of the points basically. yes, they should have had 3 more pics but when the offense does nothing don't blame the D. All the venable bashers will not be happy until MS comes back. Get over it!:(

[mightysooner]

Shut out uterus, won the Big 12, the Holiday Bowl, and many others. Last saturday was not the D's fault, the D provided 14 of the points basically. yes, they should have had 3 more pics but when the offense does nothing don't blame the D. All the venable bashers will not be happy until MS comes back. Get over it!:(

Many others? Can you name them for me? Cuz the 12-0 shutout of Texas and the holiday bowl against a wildly overrated oregon team aren't what I consider "big games". The 12-0 shutout is the only big game Venables has won that I can think of.

The D stops their O from scoring. Our D hasn't been able to stop anybody when the games depends on it.

[rainiersooner]

Shut out uterus, won the Big 12, the Holiday Bowl, and many others. Last saturday was not the D's fault, the D provided 14 of the points basically. yes, they should have had 3 more pics but when the offense does nothing don't blame the D. All the venable bashers will not be happy until MS comes back. Get over it!:(

If you think, like many of us do, that we shouldn't play such soft coverage as illustrated by the picture, the D - specifically the defensive scheme - is most definitely a factor in the loss.

[SoonerGM]

Many others? Can you name them for me? Cuz the 12-0 shutout of Texas and the holiday bowl against a wildly overrated oregon team aren't what I consider "big games". The 12-0 shutout is the only big game Venables has won that I can think of.

The D stops their O from scoring. Our D hasn't been able to stop anybody when the games depends on it.

the games depend on it on every single down. id say we have stopped a few people here and there. by your logic, it only seems to matter when we are losing.

[sooneron]

the games depend on it on every single down. id say we have stopped a few people here and there. by your logic, it only seems to matter when we are losing.
Kind of what he said. I think it also points to vanilla offensive play calling late in the game - OUr O goes 3 and out and the D has to run back out there "repeatedly". I don't care what Bob says about if you want to be out there less (get a 3 and out , yadda yadda), We all saw it in 99 when the offense is out there less than 2.5 minutes, the D tires out late in the game. Then guys exhaust and miss on critical plays. Do I think we need to jam more at the line? Yes. Maybe we still don't have that all world cover corner that we believe to have. You need skills to play that way.
What I saw on Saturday was a lot of sloppy execution.

[CU Sooner]

If you think, like many of us do, that we shouldn't play such soft coverage as illustrated by the picture, the D - specifically the defensive scheme - is most definitely a factor in the loss.


Totally agree with you, I was saying the same thing to my dad last saturday. Yes the D shares some blame but when the O only has one drive you are not going to beat many people.
Our coverage has been soft since BJW has been in charge of the backs and it is frustrating but to blame the game on venables everytime something goes wrong is ridiculous.

[oupride]

kind of hard to disguise the defense when the db's start the play already in thier coverage zones.

Could it be that the DBs were tired? Heck, they were out there all 2nd half! Just a thought. The offense did not help them out any. The offense only took 19 snaps the 2nd half.

[colleyvillesooner]

The picture in question was only 6 minutes into the 3rd Quarter.

[CU Sooner]

Many others? Can you name them for me? Cuz the 12-0 shutout of Texas and the holiday bowl against a wildly overrated oregon team aren't what I consider "big games". The 12-0 shutout is the only big game Venables has won that I can think of.

The D stops their O from scoring. Our D hasn't been able to stop anybody when the games depends on it.

Attention everybody, this weekend is not a big game.:rolleyes:

The oregon game was not that big either considering the year that we had.

Some other games that weren't big games because our D played good are:
04 CCG - CU had one FG
last year Mizzou when most people were picking us to lose.
Same with a&m.
even in 05 at tt, but i am sure venables is responsible for the putting the replay booth in a bad position.

Look at the record this decade, you don't have a record like that without performing. But not every play is always made, if you think it should be you will be disappointed and upset your whole life.

[picasso]

I thought the exact same thing. It's like they got burned on a couple of deep balls against Tulsa, so they just threw their hands in the air and made the CBs play deep. And by "they," I mean Vennables.

3rd and long, same deal. I'm not a coach at all, but it seems to me that 3rd and long = tee off on the QB. And third and short you sure as hell get up tight on the receivers. Instead, we fell back into some sort of prevent all day. Maybe once or twice we blitzed one LB, but that's it.

No bump and run on the WRs? Come on, put it on the players to make a play.

There were some nice defensive plays, but man, force the QB to make quick decisions.
we were burned underneath more vs. Tulsa. Same as Colorado.

[ric311]

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4150/thdsc04944yc1.jpg

Hey, I'm in that picture. Sweet.

[Pigface1]

we were burned underneath more vs. Tulsa. Same as Colorado.

I know, I'm just saying they got burned on a couple deep balls against Tulsa and dropped back as if to never give up another one.

[arlington]

Well if being burned deep a few times keeps our corners from engaging receivers, then we have bigger problems than we think

[Pigface1]

It just seemed like they were scared of giving up the big play. That's all. They were probably just tired. What other reasons are there?

[Redgiant2]

When you know you'll be watching receivers run past your CB's if they play up you get this very French-like defense we've all come to know and love since the KSU game. They're hoping to keep it all in front of them and to let them make a tackle once the ball is thrown. It's basically where they know you're going to score they just hope you don't score enough to win before the clock runs out or that you get points in one play. It's also why crossing routes are wide open, out routes are wide open, and fifteen yard third and long plays might as well be 2nd and 1. These guys want you to run a lot of plays hoping you're the one that messes up before you score. Unfortunately, this doesn't enable you to put the Colorado defense on the field the same amount as yours is and you have people blathering on that they were tired and that's why CU kept scoring.