How Many Challenges Does A Team Get Per Game?

[FaninAma]

I was under the impression that each team got only one. Well, CU used their challenge in the first half to have the Iglesias kickoff play reviewed and they were charged a timeout. And, at least according to the announcers, they also used a challenge to get the iglesias reception reviewed in the 4th quarter and the call was reversed so they weren't charged a timeout. As far as I know, the rule hasn't been changed.

If that's the case then I'm changing my opinion about OU not getting screwed once again by the officials. If the officials indeed didn't follow the rules then they need to be suspended for the rest of the season.

The fact that OU was outplayed in the second half doesn't negate the fact that an incompetent ruling once again affected the outcome of a game that OU was involved in.

[royalfan5]

I believe the replay booth can make the decision to review at their discretion under certain circumstances.

[FaninAma]

I believe the replay booth can make the decision to review at their discretion under certain circumstances.

Perhaps they did review the 4th quarter play on their own but the broadcast crew said Colorado had challenged and wouldn't be charged a timeout since the call was reversed.

It is still amazing that the call was overturned. If these things supposedly even out then OU is golden in terms of getting favorable rulings for about the next 4 years.

[colleyvillesooner]

I paid attention the best I could at the game, and it was loud, but I never once heard the official say "Colorado is challenging the ruling on the field." Everytime I heard "The previous play is being reviewed."

I rememeber even telling Phil, "It's weird, they never say challenge." They would even go over and talk to Hawkins, then come on and say "The previous play is being reviewed."

[royalfan5]

http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/footbl-instant-replay.html

Here are the replay rules. It looks like you get one challenge, but the booth can challenge at any time.

[FaninAma]

I paid attention the best I could at the game, and it was loud, but I never once heard the official say "Colorado is challenging the ruling on the field." Everytime I heard "The previous play is being reviewed."

I rememeber even telling Phil, "It's weird, they never say challenge." They would even go over and talk to Hawkins, then come on and say "The previous play is being reviewed."

CU definitely challenged the kickoff return in the first half because they were charged a timeout.

If the officials did indeed make yet another bad ruling which potentially cost OU lots of lost revenue then I think all options should be looked at by the University's legal staff.....even if it's nothing more than firing a warning shot across the bow of the league office.

[FaninAma]

http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/footbl-instant-replay.html

Here are the replay rules. It looks like you get one challenge, but the booth can challenge at any time.

Again, the broadcast crew stated that CU did challenge the call in the 4th quarter. Perhaps they were mistaken. But if the review was undertaken at the request of the CU coaching staff then that is, IMO, a violation of the rules.

[royalfan5]

Again, the broadcast crew stated that CU did challenge the call in the 4th quarter. Perhaps they were mistaken. But if the review was undertaken at the request of the CU coaching staff then that is, IMO, a violation of the rules.
Given the quality of the Big XII TV crews, and the Big XII in general, it could be either. Who did the game? I was at the NU/ISU game and didn't bother to check the TV listings for the day.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Given the quality of the Big XII TV crews, and the Big XII in general, it could be either. Who did the game? I was at the NU/ISU game and didn't bother to check the TV listings for the day.
Fox SW

[Ardmore_Sooner]

What made me mad about the whole second review, was we are sitting in the stands watching the officials watch the replay on the big screen before the decide to review the play.

[colleyvillesooner]

What made me mad about the whole second review, was we are sitting in the stands watching the officials watch the replay on the big screen before the decide to review the play.

I don't think they are the ones who decide to review it. I think the replay official in the booth has to request the review.

[sooner518]

what makes me mad is on controversial plays like that, our team needs to get up to the line and run a play real quickly so the refs cant dick us over

[Ardmore_Sooner]

what makes me mad is on controversial plays like that, our team needs to get up to the line and run a play real quickly so the refs cant dick us over

That's the thing. The refs wouldn't spot the ball because they were watching the replay on the big screen.

[goingoneight]

The replay official didn't drop or tip passes that were perfectly thrown, and the replay booth is not responsible for us being dog-tired after two instant-turnovers.

OU and CU played very similar. Two tipped INT's for both teams resulted in scoreboard. We just farted around too long and they ended up popping us in the mouth with that last punt-return. Poor. Execution. Period. You can't hire a coach who is going to catch the ball and get out of the way of the punt for you.

[FaninAma]

The replay official didn't drop or tip passes that were perfectly thrown, and the replay booth is not responsible for us being dog-tired after two instant-turnovers.

OU and CU played very similar. Two tipped INT's for both teams resulted in scoreboard. We just farted around too long and they ended up popping us in the mouth with that last punt-return. Poor. Execution. Period. You can't hire a coach who is going to catch the ball and get out of the way of the punt for you.

2 entirely separate issues. OU's poor play doesn't mean officiating incompetence should be overlooked and conversely OU's bad play on the field shouldn't be overlooked because of bad officiating.

[SoonerStormchaser]

FaninAma has a valid point, go8.

[C&CDean]

What are y'all talking about? It's old news. Ancient history. If we play the game like we're capable of the refs can **** us on about 25% of the plays in the game and we still win. We played like dog**** Saturday. Stupid mental error after stupid mental error. That's what we need to fix. The refs will always be incompetent, so just kick the snot out of the other team and we don't have to worry about bad officiating.

I'll worry about CU again in a couple years - or on December 1. It's OU/texas time now.

[FaninAma]

What are y'all talking about? It's old news. Ancient history. If we play the game like we're capable of the refs can **** us on about 25% of the plays in the game and we still win. We played like dog**** Saturday. Stupid mental error after stupid mental error. That's what we need to fix. The refs will always be incompetent, so just kick the snot out of the other team and we don't have to worry about bad officiating.

I'll worry about CU again in a couple years - or on December 1. It's OU/texas time now.

I'll have to disagree, Dean. Did you see the USC-Washington game? There were a couple of pivotal calls late in the 4th quarter that went USC's way. If they had gone Washington's way the outcome may well have been different.

Again, the issues are entirely separate.

[stoopified]

It is still amazing that the call was overturned. If these things supposedly even out then OU is golden in terms of getting favorable rulings for about the next 4 years.
Thats what I was thinking as the review took place.I think we are wrong and OU can get shafted indefintely. :(

[SoonerGM]

What are y'all talking about? It's old news. Ancient history. If we play the game like we're capable of the refs can **** us on about 25% of the plays in the game and we still win. We played like dog**** Saturday. Stupid mental error after stupid mental error. That's what we need to fix. The refs will always be incompetent, so just kick the snot out of the other team and we don't have to worry about bad officiating.

I'll worry about CU again in a couple years - or on December 1. It's OU/texas time now.

disagreed. sure this is the outlook that i want the players and coaches to have. but i am neither, and there is nothing that i can do help fix mental and coaching errors.

what i can do is at least discuss the corrupt officiating in games and the total lack of accountability for failure. sorry, they dont get a free pass just because we played bad.

[FaninAma]

I do agree with Dean in this regard: it is apparent OU isn't going to get any calls on the road(or in Dallas) so the coaching staff should realize this and gameplan accordingly which means you play balls to the wall and quit allowing teams to hang around so that incompetent officials can affect the outcome of the game.....meaning, they should coach games on the road like they do at home.

[C&CDean]

I think what you're trying to say is that we should "play games on the road like we do at home."

Everybody loved the "conservative" run calls when Patrick went 20 something yards a couple times for scores. When he got stuffed, it was "bad coaching." I'm calling outright bull**** on that one.

Bad coaching doesn't = dropped passes (multiple times), dropped interceptions (multiple times), muffed punts, poor blocking, poor tackling, poor execution.

As a team, OU sucked on Saturday. Coaching was probably the best part of the game in terms of execution. OUR PLAYERS LAYED A GIANT EGG. And everything they did is easily correctible. That's why I'm just kinda perplexed as to why y'all are still freaking out about it. We ****ing lost. Because we ****ing played like ****. Fix it. TIA.

[sooneron]

I think what you're trying to say is that we should "play games on the road like we do at home."

Everybody loved the "conservative" run calls when Patrick went 20 something yards a couple times for scores. When he got stuffed, it was "bad coaching." I'm calling outright bull**** on that one.

Bad coaching doesn't = dropped passes (multiple times), dropped interceptions (multiple times), muffed punts, poor blocking, poor tackling, poor execution.

As a team, OU sucked on Saturday. Coaching was probably the best part of the game in terms of execution. OUR PLAYERS LAYED A GIANT EGG. And everything they did is easily correctible. That's why I'm just kinda perplexed as to why y'all are still freaking out about it. We ****ing lost. Because we ****ing played like ****. Fix it. TIA.
Concur, this time.

[FaninAma]

I think what you're trying to say is that we should "play games on the road like we do at home."

Everybody loved the "conservative" run calls when Patrick went 20 something yards a couple times for scores. When he got stuffed, it was "bad coaching." I'm calling outright bull**** on that one.

Bad coaching doesn't = dropped passes (multiple times), dropped interceptions (multiple times), muffed punts, poor blocking, poor tackling, poor execution.

As a team, OU sucked on Saturday. Coaching was probably the best part of the game in terms of execution. OUR PLAYERS LAYED A GIANT EGG. And everything they did is easily correctible. That's why I'm just kinda perplexed as to why y'all are still freaking out about it. We ****ing lost. Because we ****ing played like ****. Fix it. TIA.

I agree with most of what you posted. I disagree about the running plays being succesful early so we shouldn't bitch once CU began stopping our running game. Once they stopped working it is the coaches job to diagnose what adjustments CU made and then counter those.....not keep trying the same thing.

If I have a patient who isn't responding to treatment I don't keep treating him the same way until he becomes critical. I assume my treatment isn't working and I make an educated decision about what I should do differently so he doesn't die.

The coaches should be able to evaluate risk:benefit outcomes quickly, like is it worth having a punt returner back inside your own 10 yeard line late in the 4th quarter? I know that's open for debate.

Yeah, the players should perform at a higher level but so should the coaches whether it involves personnel changes to get WRs into the game that can catch a pass, designing a play to get the ball to your best players or realizing that the opposing coaching staff has adjusted to what you were successful at earlier in the game and then make your own adjustments.

Your philosophy is probably similiar to Stoops and his coaches which is that OU had the superior talent and by god the players should be able to make any play call work regardless of the schemes being thrown at them by the opposing coaching staff. That inability to adjust to the opposition is Stoops' biggest and perhaps only weakness.

[C&CDean]

Dude, they did adjust. The players just quit blocking. And started dropping the damn balls. On offense and defense.

In a close/tie ballgame you really don't want to start winging it around do you? Take away all the drops/fumbles and we win this game by more than the spread. They coached well enough to win. By a lot.

Stoops and co. called this game almost exactly right. Our players didn't execute. If I have to bash the coaching on this one the only comment I'll make is "why in the hell did they keep throwing it to Dropsquin Iglesias when you've got Malcolm Kelly on the other side?" Of course Bradford already said Kelly was covered all day. I guess Stoops should have ran his routes for him or something. I just ain't upset with our coaching on this one. At all. I rewatched it (painfully) on the Bob Stoops show. Our players stunk it up. They're so very much more talented than they played on Saturday, and I do not expect us to lose again this year.

[ocsooner]

I dissagree about not worrying about the officiating. There were at least two times in that game where if the correct call had been made, the momentum would have shifted back our way, or at least would have deflated Colorado.

In a close game like that (yes, it shouldn't have been that close - I'm not arguing that point), the officials have an enormous amount of power to shift momentum. It happened in Oregon when we didn't get the on-side kick, when we didn't get the pass interference call, it deflated us, and it happened again in Colorado.

What I saw on the field was an officiating crew playing to the crowd and the home coaching staff and making small mistakes here and there so that things went the way they wanted it.

I'm still frustrated, but had to get that out. Feel free to flame on me.

[Scott D]

I dissagree about not worrying about the officiating. There were at least two times in that game where if the correct call had been made, the momentum would have shifted back our way, or at least would have deflated Colorado.

In a close game like that (yes, it shouldn't have been that close - I'm not arguing that point), the officials have an enormous amount of power to shift momentum. It happened in Oregon when we didn't get the on-side kick, when we didn't get the pass interference call, it deflated us, and it happened again in Colorado.

What I saw on the field was an officiating crew playing to the crowd and the home coaching staff and making small mistakes here and there so that things went the way they wanted it.

I'm still frustrated, but had to get that out. Feel free to flame on me.

Next, for an encore I'd like for you to connect this to the Tim Donoghy situation.

[ocsooner]

Next, for an encore I'd like for you to connect this to the Tim Donoghy situation.

Didn't you know that Boise State made bets with the refs in smurf money to throw the game??;)
I think there was also some Oregon money there too. They weren't high enough in the polls, and needed to push the line on their next game.

[FaninAma]

Dean, we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. Coaching is a big part of the game. CU's coaches did a better job of adjusting to what OU was doing than vice versa.

The difference in how OU plays on the road v. how they play at home is remarkable. That can't be attributed soley to the players.

[Scott D]

Now I want you to connect the Big-12 officials to the scandals in Italy and Germany over the past 4 years. :)

[Theskipster]

Bad coaching did help us lose the game.

We were so predictable on our offensive game plan, CU played up close and usually sold out to defend the run on first and second down. And if they weren't selling out on the run, they were playing very close for the short pass. I remember watching Colorado put the safeties back in a cover 2 look, then move up with a few seconds left on the play clock to put 8 to 9 in the box. And then we ran right into the middle of them.

They would then back off to defend the short pass on third down.

Alan Patrick broke his big run after the big pass to Joe Jon (2nd Down pass and they were selling out against the run) which loosened up the defense. After that play they quit cheating up and started respecting the longer pass and we started running well again. But then they noticed we kept running up the middle on first and second down again and started cheating again and our run production stopped.

We were so predictable and crappy in our play call that Colorado sold out to defeat us and kept our superior talent from just blowing them up. Then the **** poor execution by our primary receiver made the situation even worse.

Colorado is not a good team. But they were good enough that they could get success by selling out because they knew what we were going to do and that kept us from just running away with the game. That's why our mistakes were so costly. If we play like this with the same gameplan against a better Big XII team like Kansas State, we would lose by 20 points or more.

But don't give Venables a free pass either. His failure to adjust in the second half hurt us badly too. You don't play "zone bend but don't break defense" against a team that is getting fantastic field position and that is playing inspired mistake free ball. Especially when your offense is completely choking. You have to get more aggressive and start manning up. Colorado wasn't dropping the ball on third down and fourth down curl routes on their own so Brent needed to quit making the defensive scheme rely on it. 5 of 5 fourth down conversions is Venables fault as much as the players. After this game, I will probably reflexively scream every time we give up the easy curl route.

Good news: this was a Trap game that the Sooners just beat themselves. This game is not indictative of how talented this team is. It is almost scary that if we would have executed even semi-well on offense, we could have blown out a team that knew how to stop us.

Hopefully they learn from this. I hope Kevin Wilson scouts himself to learn his tendencies. I was calling the basics of the next play from my couch once KW got scared. If I can, so can the opposing coaches.
Also, I hope our team learns that getting too excited and trying to do too much when faced with adversity does not work. I hope Kevin and Brent point this out to all the players.

[FaninAma]

I found this thread interesting on OUInsider:
http://ouinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19799

It is apparent that Wilson was ill-prepared for what CU threw at the Sooners. Malcom Kelly's comments are very telling.