UAW continues killing the golden goose. [Archive]

Veritas

9/24/2007, 10:41 AM

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/24/news/companies/gm_uaw_strikedeadline/index.htm?cnn=yes

Unions. Must. Die.

The United Auto Workers union started a strike at General Motors facilities at 11 a.m. ET Monday as about 73,000 UAW members started walking off the job and hitting the picket lines at the nation's largest automaker...a key to the contract talks is GM's goal of shifting an estimated $51 billion in future health care costs for retirees and their family members to union-controlled trust funds.

GottaHavePride

9/24/2007, 10:46 AM

Isn't GM already the least profitable of the US car manufacturers? Is GM even turning a profit right now? Isn't it a little unrerasonable to try to extract more money from a sinking ship? Seems to me it's better to keep your jobs despite the contract not being as fat as you want it, rather than face having the corporation go under and all 73,000 of you be out of work.

royalfan5

9/24/2007, 10:48 AM

SCOUT

9/24/2007, 10:55 AM

GM is/was in better shape than Ford and Chrysler. GM was actually posting positive cash flows, and turning around.
This should help put a stop to that.

royalfan5

9/24/2007, 10:55 AM

This should help put a stop to that.
that's why I used the is/was.

GottaHavePride

9/24/2007, 10:56 AM

OK. Last I remember was both GM and Ford about to go under. GM must have made some improvements.

Okla-homey

9/24/2007, 10:56 AM

Mind you, this is about whether the UAW will accede to the $51B retiree health liability's removal from GM's balance sheet. GM wants it to become a union administred trust to which GM will contribute.

I can't imagine why the union walked, unless they don't trust their union bosses to manage such a trust.

I agree, they are just cutting their own throat.

Preservation Parcels

9/24/2007, 10:56 AM

I remember Michigan in the glory days. For a long time, though, it's been, "Last one out of the state, turn off the lights.":(

bonkuba

9/24/2007, 10:57 AM

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/24/news/companies/gm_uaw_strikedeadline/index.htm?cnn=yes

Unions. Must. Die.

How True.......How True.......

Mongo

9/24/2007, 10:59 AM

lets all go buy $43,000 Yukons to help out

Scott D

9/24/2007, 11:10 AM

I remember Michigan in the glory days. For a long time, though, it's been, "Last one out of the state, turn off the lights.":(

'd be surprised if Granholm actually finishes out her term as Governor.

royalfan5

9/24/2007, 11:12 AM

'd be surprised if Granholm actually finishes out her term as Governor.
Didn't she just get re-elected not to long ago?

Scott D

9/24/2007, 11:15 AM

Didn't she just get re-elected not to long ago?

yeah the last election, but most of that was because the best the Republican party could counter with was Dick DeVos. However, since her re-election, unemployment has gone up, the amount of jobs leaving the state as compared to jobs coming to the state has increased, right now we're at a budget impasse that could shut down the state government any day now.

Basically things have gotten worse during her second term so far than they got at any point during her first term.

royalfan5

9/24/2007, 11:17 AM

yeah the last election, but most of that was because the best the Republican party could counter with was Dick DeVos. However, since her re-election, unemployment has gone up, the amount of jobs leaving the state as compared to jobs coming to the state has increased, right now we're at a budget impasse that could shut down the state government any day now.

Basically things have gotten worse during her second term so far than they got at any point during her first term.
I would have figured having an Amway guy could have turned Michigan around. You could have sold Indiana and Wisconsin on how to achieve financial independence.

Scott D

9/24/2007, 11:19 AM

I would have figured having an Amway guy could have turned Michigan around. You could have sold Indiana and Wisconsin on how to achieve financial independence.

I would support him if he could sell Wisconsin to Ontario. It's kinda hard to explain I guess, Granholm ran a dirty campaign (not a surprise), and played heavily on people's fears of their jobs being outsourced (Amway manufacturing jobs to China). DeVos really didn't use any of those tactics until late, and by that time the election was pretty much won. He spent more time saying that the jobs in China were in addition to the jobs in Michigan, and that his opponent was twisting the truth to fit her agenda.

Of course Granholm denied having anything to do with it. On the other hand, DeVos' previous forays into politics were major failures, and he'd built enough resentment in Grand Rapids that it carried over to Saginaw, Flint, Lansing, and Detroit come election day. Pretty much he got the rural and some of the suburban vote, but the urban vote went directly to Granholm.

1stTimeCaller

9/24/2007, 11:44 AM

The UAW needs to look in the mirror when they try to figure out why the domestic vehicles are made in foreign countries.

Okla-homey

9/24/2007, 11:59 AM

The UAW needs to look in the mirror when they try to figure out why the domestic vehicles are made in foreign countries.

and foriegn vehicles are often made in solid right-to-work states like TN, AL, and SC.:D

Frankly, I've never understood why us Okies can't score a sweet foreign car manf. plant.

GottaHavePride

9/24/2007, 12:18 PM

and foriegn vehicles are often made in solid right-to-work states like TN, AL, and SC.:D

Frankly, I've never understood why us Okies can't score a sweet foreign car manf. plant.
I thought one WAS going in Oklahoma. MG, or something.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/07/mg.html

Tulsa_Fireman

9/24/2007, 02:07 PM

I can't imagine why the union walked, unless they don't trust their union bosses to manage such a trust.

We have a winnah.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

9/24/2007, 03:50 PM

Seems to me it's better to keep your jobs despite the contract not being as fat as you want it, rather than face having the corporation go under and all 73,000 of you be out of work.Not to worry for those folks. They'll be sitting pretty after the taxpayers are forced to bail out their company.

Howzit

9/24/2007, 04:05 PM

Frankly, I've never understood why us Okies can't score a sweet foreign car manf. plant.

My guess is because of how Oklahoma approached the luring of GM.

[Oklahoma in the 70's]
:les: TAXBREAKS TAXBREAKS TAXBREAKS!!!
[/Oklahoma in the 70's]

[Oklahoma AG 20 years later]
Oh wait, those weren't legal.
:les: GIVEITBACK GIVEITBACK GIVEITBACK!!! [/Oklahoma AG 20 years later]

yermom

9/24/2007, 04:50 PM

We have a winnah.

exactly what i was thinking

Okla-homey

9/24/2007, 06:14 PM

Here's the funny part. If GM files Chapter 11, which it surely seems they will unless this onerous burden is lifted, guess what? That's right. The retiree health benefit goes right out the window unless and until all GM's creditors are serviced.

Thus, the union manages a twofer by running the company into the ground while losing its precious retiree health benefit at the very same time. :eek:

olevetonahill

9/24/2007, 06:47 PM

In the early part of the 1900s Unions were needed . and served a Noble purpose. Now Not so much.:rolleyes:

olevetonahill

9/24/2007, 06:51 PM

Olevet says
Unions succs, In todays world they onle help said Unions !
In 73 I worked at a carpet plant here in OK .
Man everyone said said lets go " Union " I asked why ?
the organisers said we will Make More Money .
I said Naw we will all be outta JOBS :pop:
The Plant Voted Union , 3 Months later said Plant closed and all were OUTTA Jobs :cool:

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 07:02 PM

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

9/24/2007, 07:31 PM

I don't think the US automakers will EVAR have the cajones to kick the unions out.

85Sooner

9/24/2007, 07:32 PM

This may be a blessing in disguise for GM. File bankruptcy, re-organize and not allow unions to be a part of the company anymore... and quite possibly send the jobs overseas for cheaper labor.

UAW just doesn't get it. They're shooting themselves in the foot.

I really hope GM stands up to them. I don't think unions are good for companies. They had their time, but now I believe they just drag companies down.

I would soooooooooo laugh if that happened. A business cannot contiue to be profitable in a market when expenditures that were promised years and years ago continue to grow and drain the income of the company. I really suspect that within 10 years alot of folks who have been contributing to pensions are gonna find an empty account. ( this includes SSI bennies) So save for your self because you may be the only one you have to count on.

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 07:38 PM

I don't think the US automakers will EVAR have the cajones to kick the unions out.

I think they will if it means losing the company vs losing employees. It's all about the bottom line. If that bottom line means ditching the unions and taking the jobs overseas for cheaper labor... I think they'll go with the latter.

Unions are bad for business. Bad for America.

Sooner_Havok

9/24/2007, 07:39 PM

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

9/24/2007, 07:41 PM

I think they will if it means losing the company vs losing employees. It's all about the bottom line. If that bottom line means ditching the unions and taking the jobs overseas for cheaper labor... I think they'll go with the latter.

Unions are bad for business. Bad for America.You are speaking logically, but I still don't think they have it in them to ditch the unions.

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 07:41 PM

Honda and Toyota. Aren't they two of the most popular and most reliable makes out there?

And aren't they made in America as well?

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 07:42 PM

You are speaking logically, but I still don't think they have it in them to ditch the unions.

How dare you accuse me of thinking logically! I'm a woman!

:D ;)

olevetonahill

9/24/2007, 07:43 PM

I think they will if it means losing the company vs losing employees. It's all about the bottom line. If that bottom line means ditching the unions and taking the jobs overseas for cheaper labor... I think they'll go with the latter.

Unions are bad for business. Bad for America.
Girl friend
Employees and plants continue to VOTE union , and Continue to lose jobs to beanerville !
:mad:

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

9/24/2007, 07:45 PM

How dare you accuse me of thinking logically! I'm a woman!

:D ;)The auto industry is scared sh*tless of the unions...AS WELL THEY SHOULD BE!

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 07:49 PM

Girl friend
Employees and plants continue to VOTE union , and Continue to lose jobs to beanerville !
:mad:

Well, if the employees want to keep their jobs then they need to stop voting Union. Unions, IMO are killing the American auto industry.

Honda and Toyota don't employ union workers, and you don't hear about them having finanical woes.

But what the hell do I know... I dig pink flamingos.

Sooner_Havok

9/24/2007, 07:49 PM

Honda United States

North American Facilities List and description

* Lincoln, Alabama — Odyssey, Pilot, V6 engines
* East Liberty, Ohio — Civic Sedan/Coupe/GX, Element, CR-V
* Marysville, Ohio — Accord Sedan/Coupe, Acura TL, Acura RDX, motorcycles (Gold Wing 1800, Valkyrie Rune,
VTX 1300/1800, Shadow 1100), motorcycle engines
* Anna, Ohio — Engines
* Raymond, Ohio — Vehicle R&D
* Torrance, California — Vehicle R&D/design
* Swepsonville, North Carolina — General purpose engines, Walk-behind lawn mowers, Snow blower, String trimmers, Water pumps, nnd Tillers
* Greensburg, Indiana — Civic Sedan (Opening in Fall 2008)
* Timmonsville, South Carolina — ATV's & watercraft(Four Trax Recon, Four Trax Foreman, Four Trax Rancher, Four Trax Rincon, Four Trax Rubicon, Sportrax 400EX/250EX, AquaTrax F-12/12X)

Toyota United States

* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Alabama, Huntsville, Alabama – V6 and V8 Engines.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Kentucky, Georgetown, Kentucky – Camry, Avalon and Solara, as well as the AZ and GR engines.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indiana, Princeton, Indiana – Tundra, Sequoia and Sienna. 364,983 vehicles produced in 2005. (127,431 Tundra, 44,852 Sequoia and 192,700 Sienna)
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Texas, San Antonio, Texas – Tundra. Annual capacity of 200,000 pickup trucks.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing West Virginia, Buffalo, West Virginia – ZZ, MZ, and GR engines; automatic transaxles
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Mississippi, Tupelo, Mississippi - Toyota Highlander (est. 150,000/year) This facility is being built. The facility or company is named "Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Mississippi, Inc."

So yeah, they do make cars here, still am waiting for that Honda Mustang!

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 07:49 PM

The auto industry is scared sh*tless of the unions...AS WELL THEY SHOULD BE!

Why? IMO Unions are bullies who need to be called on the carpet. Seriously.

Sooner_Havok

9/24/2007, 07:50 PM

Why? IMO Unions are bullies who need to be called on the carpet. Seriously.

Why do you hate America?:D

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 07:51 PM

So yeah, they do make cars here, still am waiting for that Honda Mustang!

As long as they don't come with Fart Pipes, that'll be fine with me.

StoopTroup

9/24/2007, 07:53 PM

The funniest thing is that if Unions are bad for Corporations....

How come they keep signing contracts with the Unions and workforce?

Another good example of an Airline (Delta) that paid their mechanics and related extra to stay non-union and they went into the can anyway...

I think many of these Corporations would be better off if the Stock Holders could do something about the Board Members who continue to keep Management that can't keep good relations with their employees and turn a profit while keeping the stock price and dividends rolling.

Remember the days when stocks would split and Corporations continued to grow and look to the future?

Now it seems they only look to how long before they can take down multi-million bonuses and usurp more power.

Don't get me wrong...

If I was a CEO...I wouldn't think anything was wrong.

:pop:

Sooner_Havok

9/24/2007, 07:54 PM

As long as they don't come with Fart Pipes, that'll be fine with me.
Nope, just a six cylinder that puts out twice as much power than a ford V8, and gets twice the MPG:D

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 07:56 PM

VROOM! VROOM!

Sooner_Havok

9/24/2007, 08:00 PM

VROOM! VROOM!

My buddy is waiting for the 38 MPG Toyota Hummer H3

StoopTroup

9/24/2007, 08:04 PM

Anyone see that stretch Hummer at the TU Sea of Beercans?

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 08:05 PM

My buddy is waiting for the 38 MPG Toyota Hummer H3

Now THAT'S what I need!

ph will attest to that, huh ph?

phead903

9/24/2007, 08:16 PM

Now THAT'S what I need!

ph will attest to that, huh ph?

That would fit you perfectly - prolly get a whole ****-load of pink flamingos in it!:D

Sooner_Havok

9/24/2007, 08:20 PM

Yeah, the day that the US Automobile Industry gets bought out, cheap well built cars for all!

SoonerGirl06

9/24/2007, 08:40 PM

That would fit you perfectly - prolly get a whole ****-load of pink flamingos in it!:D

Yeah baby!

Drivin' down the road with my PINK FLAMINGOS!!!

How cool would that be?!?!?!

bluedogok

9/24/2007, 11:35 PM

My guess is because of how Oklahoma approached the luring of GM.

[Oklahoma in the 70's]
:les: TAXBREAKS TAXBREAKS TAXBREAKS!!!
[/Oklahoma in the 70's]

[Oklahoma AG 20 years later]
Oh wait, those weren't legal.
:les: GIVEITBACK GIVEITBACK GIVEITBACK!!! [/Oklahoma AG 20 years later]I don't think it took him even 10 years to do that. It was nothing more than Jan Eric Cartwright running for governor, he thought that he would rally the population against the big evil corporations, we see how well that worked out. He did a disappearing act after he lost out on the primary.

Honda and Toyota. Aren't they two of the most popular and most reliable makes out there?

And aren't they made in America as well?
When the Accord Coupes first came out they were only made in Ohio and exported to Japan.

MR2-Sooner86

9/25/2007, 12:12 AM

I will personally welcome the day I can buy a Honda Mustang, A Toyota Camaro, and a Kia Charger! Imagine how well built and low cost our favorite cars will be when the Japs and Chinese take over production of them!

Yeah that'd be the day. Maybe on the Camaro and the Charger and not the Mustang. The way I heard Ford, as of now, could just make Mustangs and do well from now on. Their other cars and now declining trucks are whats bringing them down.

Honda and Toyota. Aren't they two of the most popular and most reliable makes out there?

Popular? It depends on which market.
For instance Lexus sells more than BMW, Jag, or Cadillac so Toyota is more popular in the luxery area. They're also the best selling.
As for the one area the big three (Ford, GM, Dodge) had over the foreign market, well they're losing it. Toyota trucks are closing on Ford, who held the crown in the market, fast and will pass them. Not to mention Nissan's Titan is also cutting in on the pie.
Sports cars? Yes we still have the Corvette, Mustang, Viper, soon to be Camaro, and other limited runs (see Ford GT). However Toyota is getting ready to release their newest Supra that is said to have a 400 hp V8. Nissan is at last bringing the Skyline GT-R to the U.S. with a twin turbocharged V6 that is said to be a Porsche beater.
Lets not forget the new EVO X and WRX STi.

As for reliable, Honda is up there but Toyota is in the top three worlwide if I'm not mistaken. They even beat BMW.

Now this stuff is new but before this I heard the only thing to delay what was coming is that GM was thinking of buying Dodge/Chrysler. I doubt it'll happen now.

Yes folks, unions killed the American automakers and gave it to the imports on a silver plater.

royalfan5

9/25/2007, 08:46 AM

A point of order here, while unions have been bad for the automakers, that doesn't absolve management of the automakers for repeatedly doing stupid things. The Unions didn't force the Automakers to go on their ill-fated diversifications in the 80's and 90's, nor do come up with the uninspired car designs that Detroit has been cranking out for awhile. There's plenty of blame to go around for their plight.

KABOOKIE

9/25/2007, 10:28 AM

When I see some wrench turner sitting on his Harley-Davidson on the news complaining about GM stiffing them I think CROCK-O-****. In addition to the motorcycle, dude probably has 2 maybe 3 cars, a nice house, a ski boat, 50” plasma TV, you name it. There is no person in this world more overpaid for the job than someone in the UAW.

SoonerJack

9/25/2007, 12:49 PM

I had a friend who used to work for GM in Kansas City back in the day. He told me this story: "Jack, I signed up for 'mergency weekend duty at the GM plant. If they needed a box of bolts or something picked up from KCI on the weekend, I'd drive up there, pick it up and drop it off at the plant. Two hours of work and I was agettin' $150/hour."

I thought to myself, "this must be why cars cost so much."

Veritas

9/25/2007, 12:59 PM

We need Ronald Reagan to rise from his grave and tell all those muh****ers, "you're fired" as he did with the air traffic controllers.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

9/25/2007, 03:07 PM

We need Ronald Reagan to rise from his grave and tell all those muh****ers, "you're fired" as he did with the air traffic controllers.What chance is there a newly elected Hillary Clinton will do that?

Scott D

9/25/2007, 04:33 PM

We need Ronald Reagan to rise from his grave and tell all those muh****ers, "you're fired" as he did with the air traffic controllers.

well it kinda helps if your job is technically a government job. ;)

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

9/25/2007, 04:41 PM

well it kinda helps if your job is technically a government job. ;)and if one has the capability to resurrect.

tommieharris91

9/25/2007, 05:56 PM

What chance is there a newly elected Hillary Clinton will do that?

< 0

soonerscuba

9/25/2007, 06:07 PM

People are still allowed to peacefully assemble under the 1st amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

This particular union things seems stupid, but like someone said earlier, GM signs the contracts.

Oh, I would love to buy American, but my tastes in attractive and reliable vehicles trumps national pride, don't build ****ty product and people will buy it.

Sooner_Havok

9/25/2007, 06:16 PM

What chance is there a newly elected Hillary Clinton will do that?

If by that, you mean coddle the UAW and tell them everything is going to be ok, and that she won't let the US Auto Makers stiff them out of their hard earned money, then tax the crap out of the US auto industry and wave goodbye as they move their plants out of the us....then I would say there is a 100% chance.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

9/25/2007, 07:02 PM

If by that, you mean coddle the UAW and tell them everything is going to be ok, and that she won't let the US Auto Makers stiff them out of their hard earned money, then tax the crap out of the US auto industry and wave goodbye as they move their plants out of the us....then I would say there is a 100% chance.SicEm is predicting Civil War!

yermom

9/25/2007, 11:12 PM

so GM is in trouble? how much of a raise is the CEO getting this year? how are his retirement benefits?

maybe the implementation has gone awry, but i think something to keep corporations in check from screwing over workers is a good idea

Sooner_Havok

9/25/2007, 11:16 PM

Does anyone ever hear the horror stories coming from those workers at Honda and Toyota plants who aren't part of the UAW?

yermom

9/25/2007, 11:30 PM

not yet ;)

are they even full-time employees? benefits at all? retirement?

i don't really know, i'm asking

Sooner_Havok

9/25/2007, 11:31 PM

not yet ;)

are they even full-time employees? benefits at all? retirement?

i don't really know, i'm asking

I was really asking too. I don't know, I just know they make cars, in the US, and aren't part of the UAW.

Sooner_Havok

9/25/2007, 11:35 PM

from their site:

Benefits of Employment

Honda is interested in the needs of its associates. Our comprehensive benefits program, which includes health, life, disability, paid time off and retirement plans, is designed to provide associates and their families with the resources needed to take care of themselves today and in the future.

This was under benefits for Honda of America Manufacturing, Inc.

bluedogok

9/26/2007, 02:34 AM

Scott D

9/26/2007, 09:02 AM

I read some stories about how the new Toyota Tundra plant in San Antonio had something like 3x the number of applications than they had openings. I think for a manufacturing type of job it started out as the highest paying in the SA area.

Any and all opening auto plants generally have 3 to 5x more applicants than positions in the entire country.

Veritas

9/26/2007, 09:34 AM